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Coroutines are now in Clang trunk, libc++ twitter.com
224 points by davedx  10 hours ago   111 comments top 10
nickbauman 1 hour ago 6 replies      
This is how I understand the two approaches to concurrency:

1) Use preemptive system threads that can execute in parallel. A task requiring simultaneous waiting is given an operating system thread of its own so it can block without stopping the entire program. But threads require significant memory and other resources per thread. Also, the operating system can arbitrarily interleave the execution of system threads, requiring the programmer to carefully protect shared resources with locks and condition variables, which is exceedingly error-prone.

2) Have a single-threaded program, where that single thread runs an event loop whose job is to react to external events by invoking a callback function that has been registered. While it doesn't require the same kind of complex synchronization that preemptive threads do, the inverted control structure of this approach requires your own control flow to thread awkwardly through the system's event loop, leading to a maze of event callbacks.

Coroutines work with the latter style in an attempt to tame its complexity. They are themselves complex, however, and, in my opinion, that complexity doesn't pull its weight when you consider in the end you only have one thread.

Can anyone tell me what I'm missing or how these problems with these approaches have been solved in places?

crudbug 46 minutes ago 2 replies      
I think with all the async / await noise, the simplicity of co-routines is usually forgotten.

IMHO, they are the right abstraction on top of event-loops. Every major server platform, especially - JVM, CLR, should support them.

I would be very much interested in context-switch data of server applications for Threads vs. Coroutines loads.

Cieplak 9 hours ago 6 replies      
Modern C++ can be very pythonic. Still not as easy as writing Java in IntelliJ but CLion is becoming quite good (if you succumb to CMake). People write shit code in every language; C++ has my favorite abstraction to performance ratio.


nosefouratyou 43 minutes ago 0 replies      
I found this to be a good article about the importance of coroutines compared to continuation-passing style:http://orthecreedence.github.io/cl-async/2012/11/07/missing-...
pedrow 4 hours ago 1 reply      
Does anyone know, if coroutines are implemented by the compiler, will they also be available for C? Specifically, I'm thinking about the brilliant Io language which uses its own cross-platform C coroutine library. If this could be done 'natively' I wonder if it would simplify the code?
iheartmemcache 9 hours ago 3 replies      
Some resources for those who aren't too active in keeping up with C++, these slides are a good quick summary[0]. The talks linked on this page[1] are particularly good, especially the CppCon16 Gor Nishanov talk[2]. Paulo[3] has some interesting things to say (though I think some semantics may have changed since, so grain of salt and all).

[0] https://www.slideshare.net/SergeyPlatonov/gor-nishanov-c-cor... Interesting to note, slide #11 uses a tokenizer to demonstrate the usefulness of coroutines. IIRC, Rob Pike used a very similar (maybe his was a lexer/parser?) example in '14 re: Go.

[1] http://luncliff.postach.io/post/exploring-msvc-coroutine

[2] https://channel9.msdn.com/events/CPP/CppCon-2016/CppCon-2016...



Side-note : Love it or hate it, the C++ community is certainly moving at a vibrant pace. I don't write production C++ code anymore (and haven't for a long time) but I still go out of my way to watch the CppCon talks. IMO, they consistently produce best quality talks just because you have so many excellent programmers from various industries using select subsets of C++ in all sorts of different ways. The people writing games are focused on making sure they're portable 'enough' to hit all the major platforms, without getting too tied to platform-specific low-level calls, while retaining the necessary performance to get satisfactory models/meshes/lighting/collision detection/raytracing/dozens-of-other-things completed within that tiny 16.33 millisecond gap to complete the framebuffer and swap in the next frame. The academics who are doing vast numerical computations will be talking about their new MPI utilizations (and undoubtedly, next years talk will be re: a boatload of RDMA/NUMA optimizations). People complain that C++ is a mishmash of too many concepts (pun not intended). I.e., you can write it in the "C with Objects" style, or the "I use TMP so much my code is basically Haskell", and anywhere in between - but it's that heterogeneity that ends up yielding such high caliber talks.

softwarelimits 8 hours ago 4 replies      
What would be the best learning path to take for young people wanting to learn C++ today, especially with a focus on free software? Thanks for your attention!
dis-sys 8 hours ago 2 replies      
Can't wait to see the libc++ coroutines to be declared as production ready. Now I am wondering whether they will be providing some channel implementation similar to the one in Golang in the future.

Interesting time for all we C++ fans.

colejohnson66 9 hours ago 1 reply      
At the moment, they are still listed as a WIP[0], but the commit history shows a lot of effort done recently[1] (Ctrl-F "coroutine")

[0]: https://clang.llvm.org/cxx_status.html#ts [1]: http://lists.llvm.org/pipermail/cfe-commits/Week-of-Mon-2017...

kitd 1 hour ago 0 replies      
Simon Tatham can finally breathe easily.
NTFS bug lets anyone hang or crash Windows 7 or 8.1 arstechnica.com
118 points by ivank  7 hours ago   36 comments top 10
monocasa 9 minutes ago 0 replies      
Well, NTFS has been described anonymously as

> a purple opium-fueled Victorian horror novel that uses global recursive locks and SEH [Structured Exception Handling] for flow control.

All though after his post blew up the developer recanted their statements a little, saying

> First, I want to clarify that much of what I wrote is tongue-in-cheek and over the top --- NTFS does use SEH internally, but the filesystem is very solid and well tested. The people who maintain it are some of the most talented and experienced I know. (Granted, I think they maintain ugly code, but ugly code can back good, reliable components, and ugliness is inherently subjective.)


Nexxxeh 1 hour ago 3 replies      
Does that mean you could send someone a link, or take them to a webpage with a link, to file://killing string and if they click it, their system grinds to a halt? Can you DoS a Windows box by trigging an antivirus to try and look for that string? Does it impact Server?
eponeponepon 1 hour ago 2 replies      
I often wonder why these special filenames aren't more widely known. I've been using Windows for 25 years now, but first learned about them a couple of years back when I committed a perfectly sensible (or so I thought) directory of auxiliary files from a Debian box and named it "aux/".

Cue arriving back at work on Monday with the rest of my team kicking back waiting for IT to "fix Subversion"...

(yes I did fess up :-) )

ChiliDogSwirl 15 minutes ago 0 replies      
I won't lie... I'm going to have a bit of fun with the guys in desktop support today...
desktopninja 6 minutes ago 0 replies      
On Windows 7 (v6.1.7601), enabling UAC thwarts this. In addition IE does not allow file:///c:/$MFT or C:\$MFT
bjpbakker 2 hours ago 4 replies      
The /only/ way (still) for MS to get rid of the blue-screen-of-death seems to change the color :)
nsaslideface 16 minutes ago 1 reply      
Why... why would no-one at Microsoft fuzz their operating system's file browser with at least every possible four-length(?) string?
_nalply 1 hour ago 2 replies      
Can confirm it for my Win7 installation. Open cmd then cd c:\$MFT and your system freezes up. Ctrl-Alt-Del doesn't help, but you can still open one (but completely useless) Explorer window. I didn't get a bluescreen. It's weird.

Update: A hard reset helped and everything is fine again.

drinchev 1 hour ago 0 replies      
delegate 50 minutes ago 0 replies      
Aliens: We come in peace !

Humans: Welcome to Earth !

Aliens: So we notice you've invented the Computer ? What is the name of the dominant and most widely used operating system on this Planet ?

Humans: Windows !

Aliens: Windows ? Melted Silicon dioxide ? Really ? (chuckles :) .. (cough, cough) How stable is it ?

(you know were this is going, right ? )

Humans: Hmm... Well, it's getting stable(r) with every passing decade..

Aliens: Every decade ? Interesting... What if I type "c:\$MFT\123" ?

Humans: Oh that ... it will hang, it's a bug in NTFS.

Aliens: Bug? Infested??? Infesters were here ! Quick, let's run!

Humans: Wait , please, don't go, it's not that bad ! It has Internet Explorer !

Aliens: (waving from the spaceship) Build a new set of pyramids, we'll come back after another 10,000 spins around your star.

Humans: ...

Carbon Dating the Internet Archive with OpenTimestamps petertodd.org
53 points by haakon  5 hours ago   10 comments top 3
apo 1 hour ago 1 reply      
For those who want to try something like this with little fuss, check out Proof of Existence:


haakon 5 hours ago 1 reply      
Note: Had to take some small liberties with the headline to make it fit HN's 80 character limit.
therealidiot 2 hours ago 3 replies      
> tl;dr: You can now use our searchable database (works best on Chrome)

We've really gone back to how it "used to be" :(


It's Never Too Early to Fire a16z.com
192 points by jbyers  14 hours ago   155 comments top 27
afpx 10 hours ago 4 replies      
Actually, pretty good advice in the opposite direction, too. If I had known at 18 that I could have easily and successfully walked away from teams, bosses, companies, partners, and investors who gave 'bad vibes', I would easily have (at least!) an extra couple million in the bank.

I wasted countless opportunities waiting for things to get better, when I probably intuitively knew that they wouldn't. Partly, it was because I didn't want to be considered inconsiderate or rude. But, also, it was because I latched on to other things: the mission, the market, the tech, the product, the teams, etc.

wtvanhest 12 hours ago 7 replies      
Just a note, this isnt about firing junior people fast. That is absolutely scummy.

This is about hiring/firing very senior, well paid people with lots of prior experience.

If you are hiring and then firing junior people fast, you are the problem.

gommm 4 hours ago 2 replies      
In the first company I confounded, we recruited a friend of my cofounder to a senior job. He looked like the right guy for the job but he actually really wasn't. He was completely underperforming and junior employees looked at him and lost respect for both and my cofounder for keeping him on.

Because he was a friend who had left his job to work for us, we didn't fire him and he continued undermining the company with his poor performance for a year. I think this was the worst mistake I did. In the end, he left the company and screwed us over on some account.

So, I've learned from this:

- do not hire friends as senior executive

- if you insist on hiring friend, have a clear backup plan if things don't work out so that you can both end the relationship. Be prepared to lose your friendship in doing that.

- never let an underperforming senior employee fester in your company. It's like rot, it will drag down the entire company by devaluating the work your other employees do

devy 1 hour ago 0 replies      
Although there are lots of these career "advices" that are perceived as "universal truth", I hardly believe they are the only truth. Life is more complicated than that sometimes, so are your workplace. Use your best judgement(s), rather than follow the dogma. Long enough you will have your own believes, perhaps from a different angle to the same dilima.
kristiandupont 6 hours ago 2 replies      
>I have never fired anyone too early.

This may well be true but how do you know? The only way I can think of is if the employee went on to become such a rock star at some other place that you actually hear about it. But that's not the only situation where they might have been valuable to you after a while.

erikpukinskis 12 hours ago 20 replies      
Weirdly, I think we would all benefit quite a lot from a normalization of fast firing. Part of the reason it's hard to get a job is that companies are afraid to fire you, so they jump through all kinds of strange hoops to try to predict how good an employee you'll be based on, really, no information.

This also forces companies to filter out "possibly good" candidates and only hire "probably good" candidates.

If it were normal to get fired after a day or a week, you could get hired at 10 different companies over a span of two months and likely find a really great position, where you're a great fit.

My next company will have explicit rubrics for what it takes to get fired, and your status will be tracked daily. You'll know at all times exactly how close you are to getting fired with how much severance. It will never be a surprise, unless it's a reaction to an acute event (sexual harassment, etc). We'll hire pretty much everyone who walks through the door with a plausible story for how they add value. Anyone we fire we'll sit down in the exit interview and write a plan for how they can get re-hired in a few weeks or months if they're interested. We'll also try to spin off a separate business with the fired person at the head, instead of just firing, whenever possible.

pbreit 11 hours ago 1 reply      
This post left a bad taste in my mouth. Firing can be hard on all parties involved. Your dumb startup is not that important. If you can't figure out how to utilize an employee, that's on you.
paulsutter 52 minutes ago 0 replies      
Even more important is to take the blame yourself and fix your hiring process. In the example below, detect the exaggeration during the interview not after they start.

> youve realized that what sounded like their experience in the interview and even confirmed in reference checks, turns out to be things they observed but they didnt really drive (or truly understood from within) and therefore cant replicate

phkahler 2 hours ago 0 replies      
>> After a while of trying and challenging them directly to step up youve realized that what sounded like their experience in the interview and even confirmed in reference checks, turns out to be things they observed but they didnt really drive (or truly understood from within) and therefore cant replicate.

That is a sign of a poor hiring process. It's a common mistake but it's the number one thing I try to figure out when hiring. I'll have to write a blog about it some time.

pascalxus 12 hours ago 3 replies      
It takes time to build trust, at least several months, maybe even years. If you fire everyone before you even get a chance to build up trust with them, you'll never get a great team.
scandox 7 hours ago 0 replies      
> Of course Im being a bit provocative to open this post with, I have never fired anyone too early. I have almost always given people a chance to correct course, and suggest you do too.

For anyone that didn't reach the end.

pmarreck 1 hour ago 1 reply      
Is intuition infallible? I want to hear stories about people who followed their intuition on staying or going (or keeping or firing) and it ended up being the wrong decision long-term. Falsifiability is IMHO an important element of arguing for "intuition"

And yet, I look back and I can't think of a single example in my own life where "listening to my gut" seemed to lead me astray. But I also don't trust my own brain to remember such instances...

mbfg 9 hours ago 1 reply      
"You can never fire someone too soon" is a ridiculous statement as it is non-falsifiable.
strin 9 hours ago 1 reply      
Given a shortage of supply for a job, firing early might not be a good idea. It takes months or even years to find an appropriate good fit for a job.

Sometimes it's easier to just give the person another chance, than to fire him and have no one to do the work.

Ajedi32 2 hours ago 0 replies      
That's crazy; Extra Credits posted a video about this exact same topic a couple days ago, (with an extra focus on indie game development): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mnhlDwCRwkU
nilved 2 hours ago 0 replies      
From the last couple paragraphs this reads like a16z is still mad over getting fired years ago. They should know that being fired is a traumatic experience, and not use this as justification for their future carelessness. Two wrongs don't make a right.
Clubber 12 hours ago 1 reply      
>Dont trigger the decay model of trust why is management tolerating this shit?!

I can't reiterate this enough. Once company I worked for fired the COO that had built the operations when he had serious personal issues that bled into the working environment. I knew it was a serious company after that, I could imagine how difficult it was and he created a great operational culture and working environment before his issues.

Fast forward a few years after an acquisition. The new owners have so many Bozo's in executive positions the place is toxic.

dbg31415 3 hours ago 0 replies      
This is probably the worst advice for a young founder.

Had a client who was a 24-year-old startup founder, one of his investors got me involved to help him hire some folks and help define project process.

We hired a great developer, who freaked when he saw how sloppy the code was. Rightfully said, "We can't maintain this..."

Anyway, the founder had written a lot of it, so it wasn't a shock to him that the code was bad and needed to be re-done. Hew knew it was all quick and dirty and hacked together. By the time I got inovlved, we had issues doing deployments (deployments would take half a day and a lot of stress around testing once code went live), we had issues around infrastructure being unstable (lost 2 days worth of customer data once after a bug caused the DB to crash), and of course, nothing would have scaled. No code review, not much of a QA process, just a million things that needed to be done better -- you can cut some corners as a startup, you can't cut every corner.

There were a handful of paying clients, but most had been sold a promise of feature A-through-Z, and really the tools did like A-through-C... the moment one of them complained the young CEO lost it because he hated criticism, especially from customers, and he didn't want people to think he had lied to them... even though he had pretty clearly over-promised.

The dev I brought on wanted to re-do a lot of things, write unit tests, set up a CI / CD process, proper backups, basically do all the stuff that should have been done day one to ensure we could work fast and have confidence the wheels wouldn't come off. The founder had been on board with trying to reduce outages and crashes, but about a week into it, when one of the customers complained about something, the young CEO freaked when he couldn't simultaneously have new features and a re-done core codebase on the schedule he wanted.

So even though a week before he had said that he liked the idea of reducing a lot of our technical debt, and giving the new dev a chance to work on clean good code... since he was young (not sure if that's the best excuse) he flip-flopped. And three weeks into the overhaul (that was supposed to take 5 weeks), he was furious. "This dev is costing us time and just doesn't get our culture and isn't aligned with our goals and just isn't working out!"

I got called in, looked over what the dev had done. Nothing short of a miracle he had accomplished so much so fast. I said as much. Later that day I get an email from the founder, "I had to let [the dev] go, he just wasn't working out." I left the project shortly after, and the founder burned through another $300k in seed money (his parents') before shutting down.

Anyway this whole "trust your gut" thing... and "don't ask around before firing" -- that's only good advice if you've got some experience and a cool temperament.

If you're a new CEO, ask around. Figure out what's going on, and if you tell people to zig, and they zig, don't get mad at them for not zagging -- they aren't mind-readers. Flipping on decisions like that are extremely demotivating to everyone who works for you, and flipping on a hire (firing someone) is the potentially most demotivating thing you can do if it's not done correctly. You hire smart people, if you can't trust their expertise, don't hire them. Since you trust their expertise, don't micromanage them, or expect the impossible from them.

horsecaptin 9 hours ago 4 replies      
Why would anyone work in a person or company that is known to fire quickly?
_pmf_ 7 hours ago 0 replies      
It's necessary to fire early, but investors should keep pushing money into unicorns without any business model because ...
tiatia 2 hours ago 0 replies      
I have a different take. Never forget that you can get fired but also never forget you can fire!

You can fire jobs.

You can fire friends.

You can fire customers.

Makes life so much easier!

kartan 11 hours ago 6 replies      
I like the article, and it has some really good ideas.And it is not about making firing people easier or cheaper. It is about on how to decide when to fire someone.

About firing fast and easy, it is a bad idea.

I work in Sweden. I don't think I have seen ever anyone fired. What I have seen is some of the best hiring processes. The process looks at the candidate values, and skills. And there is a discussion about what we expect from her, and what she expects from the job.

I worked previously in Spain, I saw a lot of people fired for no good reason. And they were also hired without too much attention. Shorts interviews, no real testing, are part of a process that ends consuming a lot of effort from everyone after hiring someone that is not the correct person. Other times that people is good, and leaves, because was not the job for them.

Both seem related. Cheap and easy firing produces careless recruiting. And that is more expensive that people realizes.

grogenaut 11 hours ago 0 replies      
"No one was ever fired too soon"

Steve Jobs may have been but then again maybe he did need time to cook in Next before coming back.

logicallee 6 hours ago 2 replies      
>To be provocative: No one ever fired someone too soon.

how about when the board fired Steve Jobs? (Specifically, stripped him from all responsibilities, removed him from the head of the mac division, gave him an office with nothing to do). No?

After all, he didn't code, was kind of a weirdo, and the board had every reason to have some doubts.

Was that a "wrong" decision?

tkyjonathan 7 hours ago 0 replies      
I like this sort of mentality in companies that think they are some sort of hot start ups that can fire anyone they feel like. I dunno how it is with management types, but this sort of approach is extremely amusing to me in niche skill areas.

For example, this happened to me a few times, but as I am 1 in 25 people in the country that can do what I do, it takes that company 12-18 month to find a replacement, if at all.

startupempl0ye 10 hours ago 0 replies      
It's never too early to remember that in a startup the decision to get fired depends mostly on the emotional state of a founder. That there is no process in place. It's random. If you do get fired, you have a good chance of ruining your carrier, not being able to get a good reference from your last place of work, wasting opportunities.
johan_larson 11 hours ago 0 replies      
Jeepers. That text needs to be a lot darker or a lot thicker.
How Dirty COW works from the Linux kernels perspective chao-tic.github.io
99 points by arunc  9 hours ago   7 comments top 3
kbart 3 hours ago 1 reply      
I wonder, how does somebody discover such bugs? Is there some strict methodology or tools? I find it non-trivial just following this step-by-step guide, even though I've programmed Linux kernel for few years on daily basis.
caf 4 hours ago 1 reply      
It's not made completely explicit here, but one reason you want debuggers to be able to write even to read-only mappings in the debuggee is to be able to insert software breakpoints, which entails writing to the mapping of the executable file.
_pmf_ 4 hours ago 0 replies      
Programming language support for COW (at the actual page level, not via internal copy-on-write) would be a nice idea; maybe something for Jai, since it seems to be the language that is most open towards integrating memory model abstractions.
Npm v5.0.0 released npmjs.org
174 points by pajoda  8 hours ago   66 comments top 16
chrisweekly 4 hours ago 4 replies      
First of all: Thank you, yarn, for helping the community see the naked emperor. Deterministic builds by default are such an obvious (in retrospect) core requirement.

Couple questions:

Question 1: Does anyone else who's been around more than a couple years share my view that Yarn : NPM :: IO.JS : Node?

IOW: healthy competition, catalyst for necessary change, ultimately a bridge or stopgap.

Question 2: Any good comprehensive writeups on best practices?Committing lockfiles is a no-brainer. But what about globals? Per-node-version seems logical, but there are also semantic problems with "global" packages vs concept of executable binaries. I'd love to see a strong writeup outlining and defending a standard approach.

eknkc 4 hours ago 3 replies      
Just tried on a couple of projects with a lot of dependencies, we moved to yarn a while ago due to performance issues and it seems to be resolved.

On cold cache:Yarn: 20.94 secondsNPM5: 21.11 seconds

With cache:Yarn: 10.35 secondsNPM5: 15.20 seconds

For some reason, when node_modules folder is still there, yarn exits in a couple hundres milliseconds but npm5 does something for around 5 seconds.

Haven't checked lock file / installation consistency stuff. Yarn has been great on that too so we have no intention to go back but this is a decent release.

Achshar 4 hours ago 2 replies      
So happy with the --save by default. Someone at work kept installing new dependencies without save (they didn't knew about it, somehow). We then had an unusable package.json. I had to manually find directories in node_modules and install them on production -_-.
evolve2k 57 minutes ago 1 reply      
> A new, standardised lockfile feature meant for cross-package-manager compatibility (package-lock.json)

Surely it would be much better to follow standard lock file naming conventions and name the file package.lock

plexicle 46 minutes ago 0 replies      
npm desperately needs a flat install option.
mstijak 40 minutes ago 0 replies      
I'm really excited about links. Links will make things much easier for monorepos.
shadowmint 3 hours ago 2 replies      
This might be a totally stupid question, but what does that mean?

 npm install npm@latest -g /usr/local/bin/npm -> /usr/local/lib/node_modules/npm/bin/npm-cli.js /usr/local/lib npm@4.6.1
How do I install it? Or... it's not quite released yet after all?

Edit: nevermind, I found it --> https://github.com/npm/npm/releases this is the 'prerelease' release.

Already__Taken 5 hours ago 0 replies      
>All installs will be saved by default

>since npm@3, npm will automatically update npm-shrinkwrap.json when you save

All installs update shrinkwrap then? doesn't that start to make it redundant to package.json in the first place now. Does this make git tracking package and shrinkwrap mandatory in-case you want to install, test but then roll back the version, as shrinkwrap will already have changed.

edit: Oh I'm supposed to --no-save now for that described flow?

synthecypher 2 hours ago 1 reply      
Its still not as fast as yarn FYI.
andyfleming 5 hours ago 2 replies      
How does this stack up against yarn now?
floatboth 4 hours ago 0 replies      
> A new npm cache verify command that will garbage collect your cache, reducing disk usage for things you dont need (-handwave-), and will do full integrity verification on both the index and the content


Achshar 3 hours ago 1 reply      
I'm not able to update it to v5. npm install npm@latest -g doesn't update.
k__ 4 hours ago 1 reply      
Someone told they now use hashes for versioning, like Nix, is this true?

Is it finally save to install 2 times and get 100% the same packages?

vacri 2 hours ago 1 reply      
How is the package manager for a language still iterating through major versions and making breaking changes nearly a decade after launch? Node is bizarre in that you have to follow its package manager so closely.
romanovcode 5 hours ago 1 reply      
Seems like their catching up to Yarn, and finally they are there. I'm happy to ditch Yarn and go back to NPM once it's as good.
ainiriand 2 hours ago 2 replies      
It is not NPM, it is npm.
The C# compiler and Lowering mattwarren.org
28 points by matthewwarren  6 hours ago   3 comments top 3
WorldMaker 8 minutes ago 0 replies      
Yesterday I was doing some debugging on the async/await downlevel support in Typescript and found myself exploring the ways Typescript lowers code in the source itself (as much to satisfy curiosity as anything else, similar to this article series' experiments/explorations of the Roslyn codebase). In its case the similarities between Typescript itself and its target language provide a particularly interesting question of what counts as lowering to Typescript versus lowering to JS/ES, particularly in places where one becomes the other as JS/ES standardizes different pieces into the wild.

For Typescript "lowering" seems a more accurate term than "compiling" in just about all cases.

jstimpfle 31 minutes ago 0 replies      
The way I understand it, "lowering" is just another word for "compiling" to intermediate representations. It probably exists because traditionally there aren't many IR, or none at all.

There have been attempts to express compilation as a series of many more, maybe 50, intermediate steps, implemented in some LISP. I don't know if there are success stories. I think there is always a tension between modeling data structures close enough to your understanding to enable clean implementation and not modeling so many data structures that one loses track of them.

dfox 1 hour ago 0 replies      
Coming from Lisp background one would take this as pretty obvious approach.

In fact I somewhat suspect that CL's tagbody is explicitly designed such that every non-trivial control structure in the language could be expanded into that.

Why I Quit Being So Accommodating (1922) mikecanex.wordpress.com
742 points by Tomte  22 hours ago   272 comments top 40
manmal 19 hours ago 13 replies      
For anybody learning to say "no" currently - learn to say "no" gently and kindly. I'm quite bad at this myself. I let people impose stuff on me, and once I have had enough, I have a very rude way of telling people off. One reason for this rudeness is a fear that I will lose something when declining (e.g. a relationship or money), so I feel stuck between a rock and a hard place - I don't want to help, but I feel I should not decline. Most of the times, my rudeness while finally saying "no" is out of place, e.g. when my fiance needs something from me that actually makes sense, or a customer who needs some small task that they would actually pay for.

Watching other people (esp my fiance) saying "no" ever so gently has me wondering how easy life could be if I were able to do the same. I'm practicing it, and I think I'm getting better at it. Telling the other person the root cause why you say "no" helps a lot to instill empathy for your situation. The root cause always stems from a need or necessity that you currently have, like need for rest/food/time to think/time to finish this or that task properly/... Even if you are lazy and simply don't want to help right now, remember that this laziness also fulfils one of your needs - probably you need to rest or think.

ADDED: Telling people that you just cannot help _right now_ also softens the blow. Also, if it's a customer then delaying might even be more beneficial than just declining - you might need the billable hours in the following week.

YeGoblynQueenne 6 minutes ago 0 replies      
The blog header is Diogenes, the Cynic (by an unkonwn artist) [1]. Thissuggests a possible misunderstanding of historical personalities. I believeimon, the Misanthrope, is the role model the author was really lookingfor:

According to Lucian, Timon was the wealthy son of Echecratides who lavished his money on flattering friends. When his funds ran out, the friends deserted him and Timon was reduced to working in the fields. One day, he found a pot of gold and soon his fair-weather friends were back. This time, he drove them away with dirt clods. [2]

I'm not being facetious: Diogenes, besides being a sarcastic old codgerfor which he is mostly famous, also displayed a complete lack of interest forhis own person, so not quite the blazing firebrand of, the er, enlightenedself-interest promulgated in the OP.


[1] https://mikecanex.wordpress.com/2013/01/01/new-year-new-head...

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timon_of_Athens_(person)

nrjames 21 hours ago 6 replies      
It's ok to be accommodating as long as you have learned to be introspective. We all have demands of our own time and money. Introspective accommodating people are able to help others in a generous way while protecting the time and resources they need to help themselves. It's a difficult balance to achieve.

Through experience, I've come to believe that this holds true in long-term personal relationships, too. While many will tell you that compromise is the key to a successful marriage, I think that standing up for yourself and who you need to be usually is more important.

There's a needle on the gauge of life that experiences pressure to move from both directions. When you are too accommodating or compromise unequally, the needle moves towards you and establishes a new norm for expected behavior. Your job should be to push back just enough to keep the needle balanced at a point where you retain a full sense of self and the space within which to exercise it. That requires a strong sense of introspection and can take years of adult life to develop.

temp246810 21 hours ago 3 replies      
I'm going through this change right now.

Some words of hard earned "wisdom": make sure the pendulum doesn't swing too far out in the other direction.

I went from being an accommodating person to an intense asshole - trying to dial it back now but it's hard, especially when you notice that people definitely respect you more for good or bad reasons when you're like that. Take it too far though, and it will of course go all the way around and bite you in the ass.

paxtonab 21 hours ago 2 replies      
"People never trust an accommodating man with important things. That may sound harsh and cynical, but check it up in your own experience. If you have a severe illness, for example, you turn to the busiest, most exacting doctor in town. The fact that he is busy and cant be bothered by little things gives you confidence in his ability and judgment."
exclusiv 20 hours ago 1 reply      
I'd consider myself accommodating and people often come to me for all sorts of advice. Or help with their new amazing idea. It's nice having a reputation of being able to do a wide variety of things, including building companies which many people fantasize about. I have a successful SaaS with a partner that brought me an idea/opportunity because I had built a reputation as collaborative/knowledgeable/accommodating. I'll invest my time and expertise to explore opportunities and people know I'm candid.

However, I get ideas brought to me from everywhere, incl. friends of friends of friends. I'm happy to provide detailed thoughts and notes but now I make sure to challenge the person and the idea.

If it's a good idea, I want them to do some work upfront before I put anything else into it. Sad to say that most people start really excited about their idea, then I'll note that there are companies doing the same or nearly the same thing already, that they need to differentiate, what it's going to take to compete, etc and they will get completely deflated. Most of the time there's no follow up. That's why most people can't be entrepreneurs.

I've helped out way too many people in the past only to have them give up so easily. So if you're in this camp - I'd recommend challenging those that want your help - it's a great filter and also a way to say yes and no at the same time. You'll end up wasting less time and you'll still be open to great collaborations and more rewarding experiences from helping others out.

mcguire 56 minutes ago 0 replies      
"People never trust an accommodating man with important things."

This is (a) incredibly true (in the original sense of incredible) and (b) a difficult and painful lesson to learn.

Being the one to go to with problems means that all you will see are other's problems---no one will look for you when they succeed. Being the one who makes crap work means that you will always be making crap work.

But saying 'no' isn't the biggest part of the problem. Saying no just means you do nothing. You need to have a positive plan. Something that you want enough to push for.

More importantly, you need to push yourself forward. Brag. Sell yourself. Advertise. Mock other people to their faces, even if you know they're right and you're wrong. The world is not a kind and gentle place. It does not reward humility and the meek are not going to inherit anything.

makecheck 17 hours ago 1 reply      
Part of the problem is that good manners only seem to be considered in one direction. It is time to redefine rude to include people that do not know how to communicate their needs very well and/or are just super-entitled.

Why am I the one considered impolite by not dropping everything and helping you immediately, if you havent bothered to do things like:

- Indicate everything you have tried already (or worse, you havent done any basic research yourself)?

- Consider the possibility that I cant respond instantaneously because my Inbox has dozens of other items already? Or that I didnt answer my phone or your text because I was actually busy, or in a bathroom, or due to some other totally reasonable explanation?

- Consider that you are basically asking for free help, when there are people who pay for my time?

- Show even the slightest interest in helping others yourself?

graphitezepp 20 hours ago 4 replies      
As someone who trends towards heavily accommodating, I often seem to find my actions that I judge as selfish or arrogant are the ones that I get respect for. Definitely a phenomena I don't understand, but its real so it should be very valuable to learn where to draw the line.
stvnchn 19 hours ago 1 reply      
> You are thirty-five years old, I said to myself. More than half of your life has already been spent. Who is living your life, anyway? Is it actually yours? Or is it a kind of public storehouse of odd jobs? A pile of days and hours put on the counter of the world with a sign inviting every Tom, Dick, and Harry to take one?

This was probably the best part for me. We have longer life spans and so we trick ourselves into thinking that we have more time to waste on things we don't really want to do. We can procrastinate all we want but in the end, we still come back to this question without a single clue of how to answer it.

wordupmaking 21 hours ago 1 reply      
When you're trying that hard to please every trivial whim of anyone, regardless of the cost to yourself: what are you compensating? Who hurt you? Who lied to you? I mean, there's gotta be something that made you rate the approval by others so highly, and your approval of others so unimportant. Something or someone that stole you from you. Would you take 2 weeks of the life of one person to save another person 5 minutes? Unlikely, and it isn't so different when you are one of those persons.

We'd be super weirded out if someone in front of us in the queue in the supermarket committed suicide so we could pay faster. Apart from that probably increasing checkout times for everybody -- just imagine the chaos -- we wouldn't even appreciate "the thought", we'd be like "how DARE you use me for this?". Most of us don't mind being catered to or even pampered, but we don't want others to just throw themselves away for us. There are limits, even though it's kind of invisible most of the time, there is a line where hurting ourselves too much to help others a little bit actually hurts society, and offends others, correctly so.

Last but certainly not least: this over-the-top, dysfunctional selflessness in the sense of having no self (or rather, not respecting one's self) attracts not only knights in shining armour, but mostly baaaad types. You might say abuse breeds abuse in that someone who for some reason is playing doormat is emitting pheromones for people who like to trample on others. I really don't mean this to victim blame at all, but it's sadly true. And the less you let others violate your boundaries, the clearer your sight becomes for what you can freely give for mutual benefit. E.g. don't spend 2 weeks to save someone 5 minutes, but do spend 5 minutes to save someone 2 weeks.

TL;DR: you can't be a good friend to others without being a good friend to yourself first.

komali2 19 hours ago 2 replies      
His drug store father example struck me - I don't really experience this "service worker" thing anymore, even when I was a service worker.

It seems to me the playing field is being extraordinarily leveled. When I was a bagger at a grocery store, nobody looked down on me. Maybe because of my town, but I was never expected to "serve" someone's whims - I was just expected to do my job, and when I did my job people thanked me.

Now whenever I'm out and about getting a thing done, I don't think of the people "serving" me as "serving me." I'm at the mechanic's, I'm pinging him for his expert advice. I'm at the carwash place, I'm asking them if they wouldn't mind doing the interior windows for a bit extra, etc.

Maybe I just am very lucky that I never underwent the brunt of service work torture because of my town, but is it still a "thing" to be asked to do a bunch of random shit at the convenience of others? Am I just so lucky in all of my jobs that everybody is respectful of eachother an their time?

balabaster 2 hours ago 1 reply      
Wow! This thought thread is a what's what on the list of horrifying and inauthentic bullshit.

When did we lose the ability to have authentic relationships?

If someone needs your help and you have the capacity to help and they haven't burned you in the past, why not actually be human and help them? Perhaps one day you'll need help and they'll return the favour. If they don't without good reason, then next time say "hey, you know what, I was there when you needed help last time and when I needed help you were nowhere to be found, you flaked out on me because you didn't take my needs seriously." or whatever.

If you're hanging out with flaky people who give you bullshit excuses for not helping you out when you genuinely need help and you're not helping out when they genuinely need help then you don't have friendship, you have acquaintances.

Being a friend is being there when your friends need you and your friends being there when you need them. If one side of that relationship isn't being honoured, it's not friendship. One or the other of you is taking advantage of boundaries that aren't being enforced or respected.

Kudos to everyone for wanting more time for themselves to find value in what they do but when you get to the pinnacle of whatever it is you're doing and you realize you've cast aside your friends and relationships for whatever shiny thing it is that currently has your attention, I hope the shiny thing is more valuable to you than your friendships, because you'll have none.

Addendum: I don't want to devalue those that are selfless and just trying to scramble back a bit of time for their own selves, I get it, I'm an introvert, I need time for myself to do my own things too, but don't lose sight of the fact that human connection is where happiness and love lays. If the giving of yourself to make those you love happy isn't making you happy, then you should probably closely examine the quality of those relationships and either fix them or end them so you are.

relyio 21 hours ago 1 reply      
I was explaining this point of view to a good old aunt of mine one afternoon and she exclaimed: But, Joe, it is so selfish for a man to put his work ahead of everything! Its unchristian.

On the contrary, it is Christian in the very finest sense, I replied. What was it that Jesus said when his parents rebuked him for his failure to keep his engagement with them on that first journey down from Jerusalem? Wist ye not that I must be about my Fathers business? He demanded. He had work to do great work and little time in which to do it. Even He was no exception to the eternal rule that achievement comes only through the subordination of every power to a great ideal; and that no man is really obliging who does not first discharge in full his obligations to his work.

Mz 20 hours ago 0 replies      
Something I have concluded: Genuine respect is a two way street. People expecting things they won't equally do in return are not expecting you to respect them. They are expecting you to kowtow to them and be their bitch.

Those people can go to hell. They will never give back. They do not for one minute believe in a social contract where both people invest in the relationship. They are just using you. Doing anything for them just signals that it is okay for them to use you. This is a terrible social contract to make.

You can still do nice things for other people because it serves something you believe in. Just don't agree to be anyone's bitch, ever, for any reason.

CapitalistCartr 21 hours ago 2 replies      
On a related note is "reasonable". In English this word is routinely abused. I consider it a huge red flag.


"No, 4+4=8"

"Oh, c'mon, Joe, don't be difficult."

"4 and 4 is 8, 11 isn't correct.

"Be reasonable here. OK, let's compromise on 9.5, OK?"

ge96 12 hours ago 0 replies      
Man, I'm a person that can't seem to say no.

Always eager to please other people before I even think about how it will affect me. Would you like to work two doubles in a row and potentially go insane? Ah sure... sure I'd love to!

Hey man, I'd like to catch this bus so I don't walk 6 miles home "Oh sure but before that, can you do this one thing..." ahhhhh

What happens when you let people walk all over you. It's funny too when I observe other people say no or F-off, people remember that and don't ask them to do things... hahaha. Ah well.

Someday my balls will drop.

zekevermillion 19 hours ago 1 reply      
This rings a bit hollow to me, kind of reminds of "Rich Dad, Poor Dad" -- a moral play, a fictional story passed off as autobiographical. Aimed to enforce our self-doubting instinct that we are somehow being a chump and letting society take advantage of us. Taking this literally is a path to regrets.
erkaes 17 hours ago 0 replies      
I was an accommodating person until I realize what people value is not you doing what they want when they ask you. But it is when you doing something with them or for them with a motivation from within yourself, just because you want to or just because you feel like to or just because you think they deserve it or something like that.

To them I am just an all nice fellow who is kind to everybody. I earned their gratitude but not their love and in the process I hurt people that truly care and love about me.

temuze 21 hours ago 0 replies      
Old submission with more comments here:


Angostura 6 hours ago 0 replies      
As a counterpoint, I am also one of those people who spends a lot of time helping people out, both at work and in the community.

I do it for two reasons: firstly, to be frank - I enjoy it, I enjoy the social stroking it confers. I work with clever, talented people - but they have different skill sets to me. If I can do something in 5 minutes that would take them an hour - and show them how to do it - I get a buzz and they are grateful.

Secondly, getting a reputation for people capable, people come to me with interesting problems, which increase my skill sets.

Yes, sometimes I have just too much on, and sometimes they come to me with dull stuff.

But in general, the combination, of making people happy, recognition and interesting problems makes being accommodating worth it for me.

DubiousPusher 19 hours ago 1 reply      
I have had a very similar realization regarding customer service. I used to think manners obliged me to be patient on the phone or at the customer service counter. That I should jump through all the hoops put before me. And finally if the outcome put before me was unsatisfactory that I should accept it and move on. But I've come to see that customer service is just as much something I'm paying for as the root service or good I'm buying.

Furthermore, the notion that an acceptable remedy to the problem that a company cannot have it's shit together enough to adequately service the occasional difficulties surrounding the transactions of its products is to impose upon me has become unacceptable in my mind.

I know this is going to sound entitled but think of it this way, it is also an entitled position to assume people should be obliged to fill out forms, perform extra steps or wait in line because of a mistake a company has made.

I'm not encouraging anyone to treat people like garbage but my threshold for corporate BS has become extremely low and I ask for issue escalation pretty fast if a company isn't fixing a problem.

codegeek 21 hours ago 1 reply      
Being accommodating is not necessarily a black or white thing. For me, it depends. I generally consider myself to be a nice easy going person who tries to be accommodating as long as it doesn't hurt me or others. Notice the "me" in my last sentence. Yes, be selfish and then be accommodating. Now, I can be a real jerk if I come across one. Nothing wrong with that.
martin1975 11 hours ago 0 replies      
Great writeup. It hits on age old wisdom - how do we strike a balance between saying 'yes' or 'no'?

The arguments for yes are obvious, probably best summarized by Wallace Stevens' saying: "After the final no there comes a yes and on that yes the future of the world hangs." (had to google for the exact saying :).

Logically and intuitively speaking, the degree to which our lives work is the degree to which we keep our agreements - it is the 'yes' (action) that moves us forward, shapes us as a person, far more than the 'no' (passivity).

In an infinite world of possibilities, what should one say 'yes' or 'no' to? This brings into the picture something we all struggle with finding for the better, if not the most part of our lives - _purpose_ and _meaning_.

I've no idea where your purpose and meaning come from - I know where mine do, however, if you want to be able to quickly sift through the infinite possibilities and readily come up with a 'yes' or a 'no' for what you commit to versus what you don't, then it is imperative that you seek out your purpose in life.

Generally speaking, the purpose has to be larger than what you can accomplish on your own, sometimes it might even span your life, or multiple life spans if your purpose is worth following by others.

Another way to achieve purpose or meaning is to surrender to another person, hopefully someone better than you. No, this doesn't mean becoming a door mat - it just means becoming vulnerable and coachable toward this person, whomever that is for you - could be a spouse, a higher being, whatever....

I'm starting to like HN even more when I see posts like this make it up to the first spot.

steinuil 20 hours ago 0 replies      
This reminds me a lot of the posts by burnt out open source project maintainers, like the one about turning off github issues that was on the front page just recently, or one from a while ago about ignoring most github notifications and marking old repos as unmaintained.
PatrickAuld 17 hours ago 0 replies      
It's important to remember what you are trying to do when you are being accommodating. You want to help others help themselves so that they are more capable in the end.

The author here took 100% of the work and pains from those around him. The people he helped were relieved of that task but are no more prepared for it should it arise again.

Personally I do try and be accommodating to those around me; but I include them in what is being done so they can learn from it. This give them back more than just result of the task and enables them to hopefully accomplish it themselves next time.

merraksh 18 hours ago 2 replies      
At eighteen I went away to college. [...] I had saved enough from a summer's work to pay the fees of the first term,

I guess college wasn't that expensive back then (or summer jobs were paying a lot).

hoodoof 8 hours ago 1 reply      
Nothing worse than people who say "yes" but underneath, they really don't want to, and play out their resentment passive aggressively.
feralmoan 20 hours ago 0 replies      
A lot of the points touched on in the original article and this thread are conducive to deeper, creative and more meaningful work in general. You should say no to meaningless distractions. I just finished reading this book about it, so, good timing... https://www.amazon.com/Deep-Work-Focused-Success-Distracted-...
xbryanx 16 hours ago 1 reply      
If you liked the writing/ideas here you'll love Seneca's On the Shortness of Life.


emersonrsantos 10 hours ago 0 replies      
Every time you give someone theoretically everything they want, they will not value you.

It's a simple supply and demand rule. Everything offered in abundance loses its value. What are you offering? Your time, your resources, your care, your attention.

To people realize your valor, offer less, invest less. Give them space to miss you and run after you.

We do not respect or admire worthless things.

hownottowrite 18 hours ago 0 replies      
Ref: Original article with lovely typesetting - https://books.google.com/books?id=kstZAAAAYAAJ&pg=RA3-PA13#v...

The whole issue is full of gems, like this one just a few pages away: "You do not have to like a job to succeed in it!"


BinaryIdiot 20 hours ago 0 replies      
This was really good and most of it held up really well. I too was far too accommodating and when I thought I had it licked I got brought back in. It's a tough thing to avoid. In some ways you want to help everyone. In other ways that hurts yourself and, depending on how bad it is, maybe your family or career (like in this story).

People should certainly try not to be accommodating to everyone. It's something I still struggle with but no longer being a part of a start-up with unrealistic expecations has certainly toned down this significantly for me.

A little here and there can still be good, however.

fiatpandas 16 hours ago 0 replies      
Has anyone seen the documentary Supermensch?

I wonder what the fine line is between being a mensch like Shep Gordon, with the kind of legend and grandeur that comes with such a title, and being an over-accommodating person to a pathetic degree, as described in the article.

It's tough to describe, but somehow a mensch has all the traits of an over-accommodating person without the sign on their back that says "use me."

cafard 13 hours ago 0 replies      
Having read through this, it strikes me as a version of the change that takes place in Pierre Bezhukov in War and Peace after his captivity. One saves time by not having to read a thousand pages to get to it; one loses something also, given that those thousand pages are of War and Peace.
stretchwithme 20 hours ago 1 reply      
Couldn't help but recall Peter Thiel's ideas on competition and why it's good business to avoid it. The author's father was stuck in competition and it drove a lot of what he did.
77pt77 20 hours ago 3 replies      
>Read the life of a great scientist like Agassiz. Was he forever at the worlds beck and call? Not for a single day.

Agassiz refers to "Louis Agassiz" a creationist scientific racist that believed the races had been created by God in separate events. Not the best example to use.

Edit: He believed this in the late 1800 and the author of the submitted article apparently considered him a "great scientist" as late as 1922.

jkuria 18 hours ago 0 replies      
Related to this I'd recommend Adam Grant's Bestseller Give and Take. The surprising conclusion is while some "Givers" end up at the bottom, other "Givers" also end up at the top. The key to doing good and doing well is to practice what he calls "generous tit for tat".
graphememes 21 hours ago 1 reply      
To summarize the entirety of the lesson: Sometimes saying "no" is better than saying "yes". By saying "no" you give time otherwise wasted to things that are beneficial to yourself. When and how you decide to say "no" should be based on whether the person that is requesting is perfectly capable of doing the task themselves according to the nature of the article.
77pt77 21 hours ago 2 replies      
> You are thirty-five years old, I said to myself. More than half of your life has already been spent.

Well, the age of the document is showing.

Sublime Text 3 Build 3132 released sublimetext.com
109 points by izietto  2 hours ago   66 comments top 16
alberth 1 minute ago 0 replies      
Does anyone still use UltradEdit [1] like me?

It's been around for 20 years and works on Windows/MacOS/Linux.

[1] https://www.ultraedit.com/

sbuttgereit 1 hour ago 4 replies      
I love the editor, it's still better than its competitors.

But in terms of management I think they're making two mistakes:

1) I bet almost everyone that uses Sublime Text for production work are using the "Beta" version (3) and not the release version (2). However, version 3 is suppose to be a paid upgrade from version 2. How long can you leave money on the table like this and still have a business, especially when the "beta" status probably doesn't have much meaning with your customer base? Maybe these guys have day jobs and this is just funny money anyway...

2) By remaining in beta so long and now that many people are using it... when they do pull the release trigger on version 3, that will be a very sudden expense for people that maybe have grown to depend on it without having paid for the upgrade. While everyone on version 3 should know that the day will come when that's a new license to pay for, if it rolls out as a standard update and doesn't obviously leave room to stay on the last beta version while people digest the upgrade fee... you might see a lot of people upgrade to the alternative editors instead. (OK, OK... that's a potential management mistake, not a concrete one as yet...)

staticelf 2 hours ago 6 replies      
There was a time I couldn't live without Sublime text but with both Atom and Visual Studio Code I have no longer any use for it.

I understand people who need/want it because it's snappier and handles large files great. I am however not really one of those people. But I am happy to see development on it.

wbond 2 hours ago 1 reply      
Here is a direct link to the docs for using the repos: https://www.sublimetext.com/docs/3/linux_repositories.html.

As usual, drop by the forum to provide feedback: https://forum.sublimetext.com/t/dev-build-3132/28529

danellis 55 minutes ago 2 replies      
How does such an insignificant release (new themes, some bugfixes) of a product become the top story on HN?
s_chaudhary 29 minutes ago 2 replies      
One IntelliJ Ultimate rules them all...

Once you use intelliJ IDEA, it's very hard to switch again, because there's so much that you feel missing...

Philipp__ 1 hour ago 1 reply      
Sublime is perfect example of extremely well (almost perfectly, for me personally it is) executed native desktop multi-platform app! I payed even if I use it today mostly for reading the code, since Vim and Emacs took over writing code.
pestkranker 2 hours ago 2 replies      
I would like to know where Sublime Text would be with the same resources as VSCode.
hota_mazi 39 minutes ago 1 reply      
I really want to like ST but its search/replace UI has always been completely counter intuitive to me.

I'm used to a lot of different ways of doing search/replace (IDEA, emacs, vim to name a few) but somehow, my brain doesn't seem to be able to become fluent with ST's approach.

hartator 16 minutes ago 0 replies      
> OSX: Added basic Touch Bar support

Can someone post how it look like? I am curious.

xaedes 1 hour ago 0 replies      
I would be so happy for an ARM build.
noway421 1 hour ago 0 replies      
>Fix multi-cursor pasting when clipboard contains one or more full lines

This is great. Didn't feel right at all to see <NUL> in the code after doing multi line pasting.

shorsher 1 hour ago 0 replies      
Is there any info on when the new dev builds will be released as beta?
bitsoda 1 hour ago 2 replies      
The guilt of never paying for Sublime Text finally overtook my conscience so I ended up switching to Atom. Atom would chug memory on Windows 10 so now I curiously find myself using Caret[1] which is much lighter on resources despite using the same web technologies in the background.

[1] https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/caret/fljalecfjcio...

mishurov 7 minutes ago 0 replies      
jchw 2 hours ago 1 reply      
Well, this is neat. Time to put my license to use again I guess.
Mark Zuckerberg Calls for a Universal Basic Income independent.co.uk
5 points by imartin2k  7 minutes ago   2 comments top 2
grabcocque 1 minute ago 0 replies      
He's running.
I_am_neo 2 minutes ago 0 replies      
Poverty payments, come and get 'em
How to build your own VPN if you're wary of commercial options arstechnica.com
17 points by sgeller  1 hour ago   6 comments top 3
AdmiralAsshat 8 minutes ago 2 replies      
The problem with a home-grown VPN is that you lose some of the plausible deniability that's gained from a shared VPN. If you have a VPN connected to a privately-owned AWS instance, the IP coming from that AWS instance is easily traced back to you. Whereas if your external IP is coming from a cluster that is shared by thousands of other people using that VPN, it is more difficult for someone to tie that specifically back to you.
andy_ppp 1 minute ago 0 replies      
I setup something from a script on digital ocean a while back.
TACIXAT 7 minutes ago 1 reply      
Alternatively, just use Algo. [1] It's a self-hosted, hardened IPSEC VPN that automates setup on multiple cloud providers.

1. https://github.com/trailofbits/algo

Pix2code: Generating Code from a Graphical User Interface Screenshot github.com
263 points by visarga  15 hours ago   59 comments top 22
radarsat1 40 minutes ago 1 reply      
Side rant: the page has a bibtex entry for arxiv. Look, it's all well and good to publish early and often, but I find I still have some reservations.. I mean, if I use this as a basis for some future work, obviously I will cite it, but I don't particularly feel good about citing an arxiv publication. It completely side-steps the peer review process, and I feel that in the long run, that is bad.

You might say, well working code is working code, and sure I've cited software in the past, and having an article to go with it is even better, but it's getting to the point that people are using arxiv not as a preprint service but as a publishing platform. I find this frustrating for two reasons: 1) like I said, it skips peer review and even allows people to cite rejected papers (for better or for worse), and 2) it makes the race to publish that much more severe -- now if I wait until a conference or journal publishes my work, I'm 6 months behind the guy who just uploads it to arxiv and is already getting dozens of citations in current work.

So, perhaps this is not the place for this debate, but putting aside the fact that preprint does seem like a useful way to "pre-publish", do you think it's appropriate to cite preprint papers and work? What are the implications for computer science as a research field down the road, since "free for all" seems to be taking over as a publication medium?

I know this will come off as being old fashioned, but I'm really worried about where research publication is going in this field. It feels like a knee-jerk reaction to first-to-publish pressure, rather than something that is a well thought-out solution.

codingdave 4 hours ago 0 replies      
I wrote a system with this concept back in the early 00s, to let designers drag/drop a design on-screen and then read the positioning of the dropped elements to compute the HTML that would produce their design... it was a dismal failure. What I found was that designers who wanted to work with the web didn't want an easy-to-use tool. They either wanted to dig in and learn HTML themselves, or just keep using Photoshop. And end users building personal sites didn't want to innovate on their designs, they wanted to use pre-made templates and just fill in their own text, change colors and images, etc.

Maybe the pervasiveness of computing has increased to where there now would be a market for such things... it has been 15 years since I failed to find an audience after all. And I wouldn't hold back on developing the technology, but I'd put a decent amount of effort into a product fit before getting too excited.

minademian 4 hours ago 1 reply      
As an engineer, I'd be interested in the quality of the code generated by this tool. I have too many nightmares from the early days of web dev where generated code was a mess because FrontPage.
Black-Plaid 9 hours ago 1 reply      
Oh, man, if only the designs I got were this simplistic and only used standard controls with the standard look and feel.

This is a very interesting start, but it's a long long way from being able to even represent in a simple layout what I am asked to do on a regular basis as an iOS dev.

Maybe combine this with a PaintCode back-end and add markup for layout behaviors?

eriknstr 1 hour ago 0 replies      
I submitted this to some subreddits and a couple of people made some quite similar questions that I'd like to see a video for in case OP here is the author or in case the author sees this.

>What would happen if I put something other than a clear mockup as input? Replications?

>What happens if you try to scan console output [1] or this mess [2]?

1: http://i.imgur.com/LJqJUnF.png

2: http://i.imgur.com/OMbZsgd.png

hasenj 12 hours ago 4 replies      
I seriously hope that AI can soon take over the majority of work (usually mundane) involved in create CRUD applications. Leaving the programmer with simply customizing certain parts or writing very specific business or validation logic.

It might drive down the wages of _some_ programmers but it will at the same time free us to work on more interesting problems.

doodpants 2 hours ago 2 replies      
Neat concept, but it wouldn't work for creating modern GUIs, where half the controls are invisible until moused over (desktop), or hidden behind hamburger menus and swipe gestures (mobile).
hardwaresofton 5 hours ago 1 reply      
Did we collectively give up on building UI building/organization tools that are easy enough for designers to use?

I understand that you can't control what tools designers use (whether sketch or photoshop or MS paint), but it seems like building a tool they don't hate using that builds UIs is the way simpler solution? There are already mockup apps that include even basic functionality that designers use...

idibidiartists 2 hours ago 0 replies      
It's best to make it so easy for a designer to make responsive (and even adaptive) layouts (for both native mobile and web) that this AI-based contraption that is guaranteed to produce wrong outcomes some of the time becomes unnecessary, at least for any practical purpose (unless the goal is the automated copying of web pages which is a lot bigger problem than guessing the markup, given how much complex dynamic behavior is built into pages these days)

I've taken an attempt at simplifying the task of building responsive and adaptive React Native apps with the following little library.


scraft 3 hours ago 0 replies      
Interesting, wonder how it handles much more complex setups. I find a big part of taking a design from Photoshop and getting it running on iOS/Android is often more about thinking about what the constraints are, i.e. does an element sit at an absolute distance from a screen edge, does it sit a specific distance from another element, does it expand to fit an area, you obviously have to do this to ensure it works at different screen resolutions. These would certainly be hard decisions for AI to get right on a relatively complex screen, but then again, maybe with enough training it could actually do really well and solve these problems in a completely different way to how a human would. There is also stuff like considering whether any of the information is dynamic (text being received from a server) in which case elements needs to be able to adapt to different sizes etc. again hard for AI to have any clue from this from a photoshop image only.
mwcampbell 1 hour ago 0 replies      
A tool like this might produce a UI that looks right on the surface. But what about things like accessibility (e.g. for blind users with screen readers) that even many human developers don't get right?
toisanji 12 hours ago 0 replies      
I wrote a similar system and plan to release the source for mine over the next few weeks. it produces working code that can be run on linux,mac,windows.
jaytaylor 13 hours ago 0 replies      
Looking forward to when the code actually becomes available.. until then, it is a cool demo video :)
ge96 12 hours ago 1 reply      
Awesome before I got into web design and became a "full stack developer" I wanted this same thing... asked about it on a forum. I'll have to read the article/check it out to see if you literally do something like pixel mapping or "Open CV" throw that in there to be safe. "Bit mapping?"

edit: I didn't ask if this was for web or app, it looked like it was for applications... wouldn't know how to do layout on that but can do it with HTML/CSS, maybe with Electron you could do that for Desktop apps, not sure about Android/iOS though.

seibelj 12 hours ago 2 replies      
I think this is just creating the layout files, all the work of wiring it up still has to be done by the programmer. This is really cool and probably a glimpse of the future, but honestly it would probably be easier to train the designer on how to use the drag and drop UI builders that already come with these platforms.
visarga 15 hours ago 1 reply      
tanilama 12 hours ago 0 replies      
This is just image to layout. The code here is really some nested tree structure. Even though it is still very interesting result, says it is pix2code might be a little misleading.
braindead_in 11 hours ago 2 replies      
What about PSDs? PSD to html is a big market and a product like this could be a good fit.
aub3bhat 13 hours ago 1 reply      
By generating the "code" are you merely inferring / representing UI layout as some kind of a tree. E.g. each button/panel/textbox gets detected, and an "RNN/LSTM" generate a tree structure using attention.
strin 10 hours ago 0 replies      
How does this compared to WYSIWYG editors?
colejohnson66 12 hours ago 1 reply      
The video says the datasets will be available on the Github repository, but I don't see anything...
huula 12 hours ago 1 reply      
Mapping screenshots to code is not hard. By having the model simply memorize the screenshots to code mappings of the training data can give you almost 100% accuracy (for some demo). What is hard is if given a new screenshot, how would this model generalize. To have something work for mobiles is a much easier task than having something work for other more complex UI though. Looking forward to seeing more updates on this!
Telsa Model S and Model 3 comparison tesla.com
110 points by andruby  6 hours ago   148 comments top 18
dgudkov 4 hours ago 9 replies      
I couldn't stop feeling like this page is nothing else but a promotion for "Model S" which is "superior and now" rather than the other car which is "inferior and 1 year later". Price would've been the biggest (and only) reason for "Model 3" but it's not shown on the page. Added extra details for "Model 3" is a nice trick to boost virality of the promotion aimed at its target audience -- potential Model 3 buyers. Well done, Tesla marketing. Well done.
unwind 3 hours ago 0 replies      
Mods: pretty glaring typo in the title, it says "TELSA" and not "TESLA" (caps for visibility). Please fix if possible, thanks.
Roritharr 5 hours ago 8 replies      
I'm really interested in the topspeed.

For german customers all the current gen EVs(Bolt/i3/Leaf/Ioniq) with a topspeed of 140-150km/h are to my opinion not really save to drive on the Autobahn as you don't have some speed buffer to overtake someone who's driving 120-130km/h fast enough.

If Tesla manages to give the Model 3 a top-speed of 200km/h that would be a game-changer and make it a viable car for me. The Model S is viable in that regard, just too expensive for me personally.

andruby 5 hours ago 1 reply      
I'm not sure what was already known.

This page shows both the model S and the model 3 side by side:

 Car length: 196.0" vs 184.4" 0-60mph Acceleration: as quick as 2.3s vs 5.6s Range: 249-335 Miles Range (EPA) vs 215+ Miles Range Supercharging: Free Unlimited Supercharging vs Pay Per Use Supercharging Passengers: Seating for 5 Adults + 2 Children vs Seating for 5 Adults Cargo: 30 cu ft Front & Rear Trunk Cargo Volume vs 14 cu ft Front & Rear Trunk Cargo Volume Displays: Driver Display + 17" Touchscreen vs 15" Center Touchscreen Customization: 1,500+ configurations vs <100 configurations Delivery timing: 30 Days or less vs 1+ year

manav 5 hours ago 1 reply      
Tesla is just desperately trying to push Model S sales this quarter. That's probably also why they added back free supercharging to the Model S recently.
nickik 2 hours ago 0 replies      
Seems that many people think that the Model 3 is the 'new' and 'best' car. They are constantly point out that if people want the best Tesla car it is still the Model S.
lukasm 5 hours ago 2 replies      
Dwolb 4 hours ago 0 replies      
As an operations person, I love how lean this car program is. They really stripped the car program down to just the necessary components and options to hit the price point they want. By limiting complexity I think they'll have the best shot at achieving the huge undertaking of scaling car production.
magoon 4 hours ago 0 replies      
It still needs to compete with a $35k-ish sedan, which will have a driver display and power liftgate.
moomin 5 hours ago 5 replies      
I will happily be wrong about this, but isn't a lead time of a year for a "mass market" vehicle a bit of an ask. Last time I bought a car the "lead time" was a week.
sidcool 5 hours ago 1 reply      
Best part:

>Although it will be our newest vehicle, Model 3 is not Version 3 or the most advanced Tesla. Like Model S, it is designed to be the safest car in its class.

Gotta applaud the honesty.

audunw 4 hours ago 3 replies      
Is it normal for a car company to make a luxury model and an economic model that looks so similar?

I'm wondering if that's one of the reasons they feel the need to put up this comparison: they're not differentiating much on external looks, so they have to make it really clear that they're differentiating on features.

havella 5 hours ago 2 replies      
The salient difference is the free use of supercharger for Model S.
S_A_P 4 hours ago 1 reply      
I think musk dropped the ball here. A decontented 35-40k model 3 should be available. They should also allow you to option the price up for luxury and performance like the A4/S4/RS4 or 320/328/335/m3. That should make this vehicle both profitable and more aspirational.
mattei 3 hours ago 1 reply      
I find it interesting that there is no mention of autopilot.
davidpelayo 4 hours ago 1 reply      
35k with no free use of supercharger, makes me think it doesn't worth it. I don't want to buy model 3 to be only around my town.

That's the biggest downside, from my perspective.

perseusprime11 1 hour ago 2 replies      
Can 5 adults and 2 kids really fit in Model S?
iplaw 2 hours ago 3 replies      
There is a misconception that the Model 3 is the most advanced Tesla model simply because it is the newest Tesla model. This was cannibalizing the sales of the Model S more than Tesla expected it to. Buyer who could afford a Model S or Model X were waiting for the Model 3 because they were under the mistaken belief that the Model 3 would offer all the newest, cutting edge technologies and self-driving capabilities.

As Musk said via Twitter, the Model S is on Gen. 4, and continues to offer the most advanced technologies.

That said, most people are waiting for the Model 3 because they can't (or do want to) afford a $100,000-$165,000 (with the self-driving packages) vehicle.

Writing a Fast JSON Parser chadaustin.me
274 points by jsheard  15 hours ago   36 comments top 13
chadaustin 9 hours ago 2 replies      
Hi all, author here.

Several people have raised questions about SIMD. For many workloads, SIMD is obviously a huge win. But in my experience, for problems like this, the gains are marginal and the additional complexity often isn't worth it. e.g. Do you have a build-time option? Check at runtime at every call? Use templates to check at startup and run a different code path?

That said, it never hurts to try, so I implemented the fast string path in AVX2 (see https://github.com/chadaustin/sajson/commit/e87da27883ffe0a3...). It actually benchmarks slower than the scalar code: https://gist.github.com/chadaustin/6fe8d250ac8402ad70a724e7a...

I couldn't tell you why - it's possible something could be tweaked to make it actually execute faster, or that enabling -mavx2 causes other code to get slower, but I wanted to illustrate that enabling SIMD is not always an automatic go fast button.

I did look at the instructions generated and they seem reasonable:

 .LBB5_118: vmovdquymm5, ymmword ptr [rbx - 32] vpcmpgtbymm6, ymm5, ymm0 vpcmpeqbymm7, ymm5, ymm1 vpcmpeqbymm8, ymm5, ymm2 vpcmpeqbymm5, ymm5, ymm3 vpxorymm5, ymm5, ymm4 vporymm6, ymm8, ymm6 vporymm5, ymm5, ymm6 vporymm5, ymm5, ymm7 vpmovmskbesi, ymm5 testesi, esi jne.LBB5_148 movrbp, rax subrbp, rbx movrsi, rbx learbx, [rbx + 32] cmprbp, 31 jg.LBB5_118 jmp.LBB5_120 .LBB5_148: addrbx, -32 bsreax, esi xoreax, 31 learsi, [rbx + rax] movbl, byte ptr [rbx + rax] .LBB5_125: movr10, qword ptr [rsp + 24] # 8-byte Reload movr9b, byte ptr [rsp + 39] # 1-byte Reload subrcx, r8 movzxeax, bl cmpeax, 34 jne.LBB5_127
I suppose it's also worth pointing out that, while string scanning is an important part of JSON parsing, the instruction histogram is generally spread across the entire parser. That is, a doubling in string parsing performance would only help overall parse times by 10-20% maybe.

Edit: Upon thinking about it, it's probably slower because there's a dependency chain through a pile of high-latency vector instructions all the way to the bsr (should be bsf, I fixed on the branch) to the next loop iteration's load. The branch predictor doesn't have much opportunity to help us out here. You could look at Agner Fog's tables and calculate the critical path latency of this loop, but I'm guessing it's not pretty.

lefty2 12 minutes ago 0 replies      
If you really want to it to be faster get rid of the DOM. Most projects that use a parser just transfer the data from the DOM into project specific data structures. You save memory and performance if to transfer directly the data into project data structure and bypass the DOM.
jokoon 2 hours ago 2 replies      
People will keep laughing at me when I tell them to just produce a binary, pre-parsed format for their data.

Parsing will always be slow no matter what you do, and you can hardly parallelize it. Of course it's fast on a non-mobile CPU, but it will always be slow on a smartphone, hence the need for such a format and it's the reason smartphones use apps instead of HTML+JS.

It's funny because computers are very fast, but batteries are not so good, so are we realizing that well designed software formats have an effect on battery life?

I've seen several articles about how webpages are bloated, but I don't see any real proposition on how to fix it.

glangdale 11 hours ago 3 replies      
I felt moved to comment on the thread. HN user burntsushi has been very nice by writing up a trick we developed here on the Hyperscan team that should be considerably faster than this system assuming there's enough data to make using SIMD pay off (this would be a lose if the sizes are small enough).

It's possible that a SIMD implementation (assuming that you routinely pass over enough bytes) can blow this away. I'm not sure what the cross-over point is - it depends on whether you are falling out of this code quickly or not. Obviously using a big SIMD sequence to replace a "2 cycles per byte" implementation is pretty stupid if the SIMD sequence is "0.5 cycles a byte" but the fixed cost of using the SIMD means that your costs are >=16 cycles and the typical case is small.

My comment follows:

It's also not clear that you actually need a SIMD instruction - if you've squashed your hotspot to the point that adding the complexity of per-platform SIMD specialization is only a small win, then why bother?

All that being said...

I've been really lazy in writing this up, but someone kindly did a decent write-up for us in the Rust reimplementation of our "Teddy" literal matcher. Please see https://github.com/rust-lang/regex/blob/master/src/simd_acce... if interested or look up the Hyperscan project at https://github.com/01org/hyperscan for a few different versions of this trick.

Cieplak 13 hours ago 1 reply      
nly 6 hours ago 0 replies      
I've found if you're in the situation where JSON parsing performance is becoming a bottleneck then data/schema validation bottlenecks are probably not far behind.

I have several hot paths in server projects where parsing IP addresses, dates, and other such data types that JSON doesn't support, eat cycles.

Or maybe nobody else bothers to validate their data.

yawniek 2 hours ago 0 replies      
we recently wrote our own json parser for etl style operations on huge json streams. the idea was that you are still able to define your structs/classes and annotated members are auto-parsed at full speed.some sse4 optimizations where used and performance should be on par or faster than rapidJSON (could not benchmark yet).


as a simple tool you could try je, which is similar to a simple version of jq but to extract json objects as a csv/tsv table. its about 10x faster than jq.https://github.com/tamediadigital/je

Aissen 8 hours ago 0 replies      
Very interesting. I was looking for a comparison between ujson and sajson/rapidjson and I stumbled on this benchmark:


duozerk 9 hours ago 3 replies      
For json parsing, I really like JSMN (https://github.com/zserge/jsmn/). It doesn't allocate memory, has a simple and easy to use API, and is pretty fast.
herf 10 hours ago 2 replies      
Nobody has mentioned PCMPISTRI (and the other SSE4.2 string extensions), but they deserve a benchmark here. Some of them appear in my regular glibc now, and they're hard to beat.

I found this Intel article for XML (but not JSON):https://software.intel.com/en-us/articles/xml-parsing-accele...

treeform 13 hours ago 1 reply      
Where did he get that assembler output from? It uses "jump-if-less" and "load" instead of "jl" and "mov"? Is that a swift/llvm syntax?
Cyph0n 12 hours ago 0 replies      
Excellent write up. I have actually never thought about how having pointers as locals instead of e.g. a class member is an optimization. Also, that goto-based state machine is wonderful: I'll probably be stealing that for my next project. I'm curious why you went with that instead of the more common switch statement approach though.
js8 7 hours ago 1 reply      
I find it mildly amusing that people are competing on the fastest decoder of horribly inefficient format. Don't get me wrong, I like e.g. ZX Spectrum demos, but the practical utility of such endeavor is questionable.

But that aside, I wonder how this compares to the compressed indexes approaches (see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uA0Z7_4J7u8&t=2850s and http://www.di.unipi.it/~ottavian/files/semi_index_cikm.pdf), obviously, once the index is built.

Devuan Jessie 1.0.0 stable release devuan.org
105 points by walterbell  12 hours ago   49 comments top 12
tannhaeuser 9 hours ago 3 replies      
Congrats for following through on Devuan. I'm guessing it took a lot of resolve to make this happen.

Should we be worried about the fact that it took over two years to untangle systemd from Debian with respect to Linux in general?

In case someone from the Devuan project is around,what alternate init system should maintainers be targetting now for Devuan? OpenRC, classic SysV init, or something else?

ckastner 8 hours ago 5 replies      
I never understood why the Devuan developers could not just contribute their work to Debian directly. Yes, systemd had become the default init system, but the idea that other developers would oppose contributions that would do nothing but improve interoperability is just absurd.

To me, this whole "we're forking Debian" thing just feels like a strongly emotional opposition to systemd, not rational solution to the init system problem.

johnnycarcin 1 hour ago 0 replies      
It's likely that I missed it, but I can't find anywhere that talks about how many packages deviate from Debian. I love what they are offering but I also want to make sure that the ease of use I get with Debian continues with Devuan.

Can we assume that any packages that are not Gnome related from the Debian repos are in the Devuan repos?

piokoch 8 hours ago 2 replies      
I am not Linux admin, but I've been using Linux managed by others on servers for many, many years and I have a question: Is that 'systemd' thing is so crucial and important to devote so much effort to create brand new Linux distribution.

I have only vague picture what systemd is doing, I can imagine that there could be something better (as always in IT), but is this really that important?

ianai 10 hours ago 1 reply      
If I just read wiki correctly, they set out with the goal of removing systemd and then kept systemd?
flevo 9 hours ago 3 replies      
Great to see they are making headway. Wonder about the long term sustainability though, as more and more software such as GNOME3 DE lists it as a dependency
sethammons 4 hours ago 1 reply      
The website needs some work. I could gather they were a fork of Debian, but I couldn't find the benefits. I had to come to the HN comments to learn about the systemd controversy. Less important, the mobile experience was not good on Android Chrome. When scrolling, the logo visibility toggles and the page content jumps.
throw2016 48 minutes ago 0 replies      
It's great that they have released and it's important there are options so users are not locked-in to a single init.

We need to do more to ensure projects do not create lock-ins especially gratuitous ones from single companies that make it difficult for people to use for instance Gnome without systemd.

This kind of lock-in can only lead to bad outcomes and making developing future alternatives and improvements more difficult.

Also its time Systemd defines a scope and decouple and brand any additional functionality beyond an init differently so it makes it easier to inter-operate and pick and choose both for users or distributions. Or you have distributions like Debian for instance voting for an init system but getting all the externalities that were not voted for end up becoming defacto choices.

softwarelimits 8 hours ago 1 reply      
Does anybody know how many people are working on this and how many people are working on the security team?
partycoder 6 hours ago 2 replies      
Some things that need work:

- The logo. Logos are very affordable. I would consider revisiting this logo, buying a new one or organizing a contest. Believe it or not, many people use t-shirts with the Debian logo and I assume that's some source of revenue stream. I do not see myself wearing a Devuan t-shirt with this logo. Right not it looks like a logo for a UFO cult or some cheap Internet cafe.

- The information on the landing page should be organized to emphasize what is important for each type of experience. e.g: dividing it into info for users, info for prospect contributors, info for existing contributors, and donation (what and how to donate, and what is done with donations). Try to interleave these roles less and summarize more.

Then, I would like to understand what the key differences are with Debian, also what specifically does "control over your system" mean?

arca_vorago 1 hour ago 0 replies      
Nobody wants to hear this, but I have strong suspicions NSA worked with Red Hat to make systemd their backdoor of choice for Linux systems, and I highly praise efforts to offer diversity in in it land regardless if I'm right or not.
Comcast taking action against Comcastroturf.com for trademark infringement reddit.com
106 points by dabber  2 hours ago   23 comments top 5
yebyen 21 minutes ago 0 replies      
Did I miss the thread where we are gonna discuss the actual issue addressed by Comcastroturf, that someone (maybe not Comcast, I'll concede) is spamming a gazillion comments using actual peoples' names and they are totally not legitimate?

I am not on the list, but I looked up 7 members of my family and four of them are, several of them showing up more than once. Including my 3-year-old nephew, who I am sure is very smart but definitely did not submit comments to the FCC in support of repealing Net Neutrality. (And if he did, he would not use wording identical to hundreds of thousands of other commenters. /totallynotrobots/)

Maybe there's nothing actually novel or surprising to discuss in it there, but I feel like covering the issue this way is absolutely burying the lede a bit.

theossuary 45 minutes ago 3 replies      
I mean, who can really say this isn't a clear-cut trademark issue? They're using Comcast in their URL. Any sane company would try to fight having their name associated with this debacle. If I registered "nytimeslies.com" and it got as much publicity as this site has, do you really think they'd sit idly by and let their brand be trashed by some idiot on the internet who has no proof that NYTimes actually, you know, lies?

Can somebody please explain why I'm wrong above, and Comcast is actually bulling the poor little guy throwing around baseless accusations? To be fair, I hate Comcast (and support Title II); but I also don't believe in defending crap like this just because it's targeted at a company I don't like.

ItendToDisagree 1 hour ago 2 replies      
Why is net neutrality important again?Is anyone ready to respond with a defense of Comcast's monopoly on high speed ISP service? (edit: in many cities and locations)


JustSomeNobody 22 minutes ago 1 reply      
Why all the hate for Comcast?

They "... continue to strongly support a free and Open Internet and the preservation of modern, strong, and legally enforceable net neutrality protections."



MichaelBurge 1 hour ago 2 replies      
That seems like more a trademark issue than the issue itself. I think they have to sue you to defend a trademark, and their lawyers are just overly conservative. So I don't really blame them for this, though they probably won't take it all the way to court and fight hard.

The company that sent the notice looks like they have some shell scripts running in cron that send out scary notices whenever they see a domain that matches a regex for a client that pays them money:


Statistics of amplification DDoS attacks over last six months cloudflare.com
23 points by majke  3 hours ago   7 comments top
majke 2 hours ago 4 replies      
Author here. AMA! This post was tough, since the industry doesn't really have common language for discussing the packet floods. In this article I tried to build some language and put focus on Gbps, Mpps, Unique IP's, packet lengths, duration of events in aggregate. I know the post is dense in numbers, but we want to encourage folks to be more open with attack data.

Finally, the "flowspec" section is somewhat controversial - for reasons I can't understand - even though Inter-AS flowspec should be a norm, it still isn't.

First Science Results from NASAs Juno Mission nasa.gov
98 points by rgbrenner  12 hours ago   24 comments top 3
idlewords 8 hours ago 2 replies      
The lifetime cost of this mission is $1.1B.

For the price of a space shuttle program, we could get 200 of these. ISS is worth 100 of these.

If we're really serious about space exploration, robot probes and telescopes give by far the biggest bang for the buck, and they go where no human being can ever go. That Jupiter flyby would cook you like an egg.

bdamm 8 hours ago 1 reply      
The failure of its main engine is going to turn out to be a blessing as fabulous new Jupiter photography every 53 days could be a nice regular treat for us space boffins.
zmgehlke 9 hours ago 2 replies      

I find images of Jupiter absolutely stunning, and that the dynamics behind the auroras is sophisticated (ie, something complex happening above the core) is even more interesting.

I can't wait for Juno to bring us even more results!

Value_ptr The Missing C++ Smart-pointer hackernoon.com
36 points by etrevino  4 hours ago   12 comments top 6
SeanCline 3 hours ago 0 replies      
The idea of a value_ptr is something that's been around in C++ for quite some time, now. It usually goes by the name clone_ptr or copy_ptr. (Googling for either will yield several implementations.)

Looking at the author's code on GitHub, this implementation seems decent.

One thing to note about this implementation is that it doesn't address the other big reason for doing dynamic allocations: polymorphic types. Value semantics are preserved so faithfully that objects are sliced just as they would be if they weren't dynamically allocated.

Consider this example: https://gist.github.com/SeanCline/c81218e4c0208ccb871268aecd...

faragon 15 minutes ago 0 replies      
C++ "smart pointers" share with threads a common risk: most people using them should avoid using them.
petters 3 hours ago 4 replies      
Not sure I like this pointer. Copying a pointer should not be a heavyweight operation. That is pretty well established.

I wish C++ had a unique_ptr without the ability to be null. But that does not seem possible given that moving from a pointer must give a valid object.

humanrebar 4 hours ago 0 replies      
You still need to dereference the `value_ptr` a lot, right? Otherwise argument dependent lookup won't work for the wrapped value type.

I guess you could provide specializations for all the common candidates (begin, end, swap, size, empty, data, and whatever gets added in the future) in the "valuable" namespace, but you'll need to be pretty aggressive with adding new specializations as people find ones they need.

Also, it might be a good idea to support a Deleter template parameter and propagate it to the underlying `unique_ptr`. Some projects use that customization point for various purposes, like instrumentation of (de)allocation or grabbing certain kinds of objects from memory pools.

adgasf 4 hours ago 1 reply      
matzf 3 hours ago 1 reply      
That's just a confusing name for boost::optional, right?
Ask HN: I don't want to be a founder anymore
500 points by throwaway10595  22 hours ago   397 comments top 126
throwanem 5 hours ago 2 replies      
I don't know directly from any of this, because I am an unlettered redneck with air-cooled teeth and a net worth in the middle four figures. But if I had a serious prospect of ending up with genuine fuck-you money, and all I had to do to get it was keep doing what I was already doing and gut it out for a few more years, then that is precisely what I would do, to the best of my ability.

I get that you're suffering, and I am not without compassion. But the kinds of jobs you're fantasizing about are kinds of jobs I've had. They are not without stress, as you imagine them to be. They are physically wearing and not at all secure, but most of all, the kind of stress that comes with those jobs - more to the point, that comes with those jobs being the best prospect you have - is not a kind of stress that ends, save to give way to something worse.

Your current travail, conversely, certainly will end, and based on what admittedly little I know about how startups work, you have a very real prospect of a great big payoff at the end of it. It would, I think, be the regret of a lifetime to squander that enrichment of all your years in search of a more comfortable day after tomorrow.

webwright 12 hours ago 5 replies      
(source: I've twice left my own companies- both companies continued to grow and prosper after I left).

Personally, I'd suck it up and get the sale done, working hard to make the price as front-loaded as possible. Depending on the buyers appetite for you to keep working there you could:

A) Suggest that you're excited to stay with the business, but if they feel there'd be too many chefs in the kitchen and that you should phase out, you'd like to know about that now... i.e. open the door for them to express how critical you are to the deal.

B) If they DO really want you, push hard for a front-loaded deal (i.e. initial payout versus earn out) and then give notice 6 months after the deal closes. You'll leave some (maybe lots) of $ on the table, but who cares. Selling a company isn't indentured servitude. Someone else owning the company might relieve some stress. If it doesn't, punt.

Broadly-- I'm a believer that happiness is generally internal. If you can't find a way to be happy with this job, I suspect you'll have a hard time with a different one. Starting ASAP, I'd make some changes to see if it makes a difference. Get therapy. Try anti-depressants. Shut off your phone at 6pm and don't open your computer. The sky won't fall. Exercise. Meditate. Try psychedelic mushrooms (only half kidding-- there are some studies that one dose positively impacts depression and anxiety). Eat better. Go into work late AM twice a week so you can take a long walk with your wife. Schedule vacations. Go into the woods a lot (exposure to green space helps depression too). I just read that doing tai chi helps with depression. Schedule weekly lunches with friends.

gdubs 39 minutes ago 1 reply      
Have you ever meditated before? Sometimes in these situations our minds just swirl non-stop and we spend all of our time aganozing over everything that might happened, or has happened.

Meditation can help quiet your mind, and for a lot of people it can lead to being able to appreciate what's happening right now, in this moment.

Nike founder Phil Knight said, "if all you see are problems, you're not thinking straight."

You're probably not getting enough sleep. Perhaps consider taking a day or two to really just rest. No matter how important everything seems, you can almost always take a day or two. In fact, it sounds like you pretty much can't afford not to take a day or two and rest. Really sleep.

I'm a believer in the idea that when we're rested, when our thoughts our quiet, we're able to see the right way forward. When things feel hopeless we're often just burnt, and need to rest.

Phil Jackson, the champion NBA coach wrote a lot about his mediation practice. He had plenty of times in his life were he felt the way you're describing. He said knowing how to breath and quiet his mind saved him from many sleepless nights.

Good luck and remember everything feels better after a solid 8 hours of sleep.

ridgeguy 16 hours ago 2 replies      
First, talk this over with your wife. She deserves to know what's going on with you and you need her counsel and strength.

Second, recognize that an acquisition is a change of life - that can certainly make one feel anxious and depressed, no matter how much you may have looked forward to this milestone.

Third, nobody is indispensable. If you died in a car crash today, the company would find a way to continue.

In your place, I'd go through with the acquisition (and do my duty to my investors & employees). When the dust settles (3-6 months), I'd go to my Board of Directors and tell them I need to change roles at the company. That would include dropping all my day-to-day responsibilities and dropping back from full-time. Be explicit that you're on a transition out of the company, and you want it to be orderly (for the company's benefit) and time-limited (for your benefit). When the time expires, leave with thanks and go live your life. Good luck and congratulations!

mabbo 17 hours ago 1 reply      
> Each morning for the past couple months, my first thought has been "What could today be like if I didn't work here?". I drift off into exploring what it would be like to work at Wal Mart, or the construction site outside, or as a bagger at a grocery store. It seems so stress free.

Here's the thing- it probably isn't stress free, just different kinds of stress. And you also need to ask yourself whether the feelings are caused by your job and stress, or if they're just coinciding with them.

As many others have said, look into talking to a therapist.

Also, talk to you wife about this! If she was crying the same way, you'd want to know, and you'd want her to trust you enough to tell you. If there's any person you need to be able to open up to, it's your spouse.

chatmasta 19 hours ago 8 replies      
Take a vacation, preferably to a beach. Use it to learn what processes at your company are dependent on you. Then when you get back, start documenting and delegating every process until you are no longer a critical dependency. Then take another, longer vacation. Sounds like you need one.
masukomi 2 hours ago 0 replies      
Once upon a time i was pretty similarly stressed about my situation. I had a good job, and worked with good people, but was just completely burnt out. Based on my personal experience i believe that you will end up destroying yourself, the people you love, and possibly harming your company, with this all consuming depression.

Get out.

For me i spent a month riding my motorcycle across the country. Came back, worked for a little while met a fantastic woman, then quit and spent four months riding our motorcycles from Boston to the bottom of South America. Came back, and started working again. Of course, 6 years later i'm daydreaming about doing it all over again. ;)

When i was young I was the child of an artist. We were pretty effing poor. But, we had food. We had a roof over our heads, and every day my mother worked doing something she loved. We were happy. Money isn't everything.

Now, you've got the compounding aspect of the acquisition and not wanting to screw over your friends/coworkers just because you're depressed as all get-out. You are absolutely wrong that you can't offload your work to someone else (as you noted in the comments). You probably can't hand it over today, but you can start training someone else, and if you're like most people who think that then you're probably overestimating your capabilities and underestimating those of the people around you.

I think you need to get out. Even if you decide to stay, you absolutely need to start offloading your stuff.

Also. talk to your wife more about this, and maybe talk to a psychiatrist. Many of us have aversions to them but they have tools they can offer you to help you work through the more difficult moments until you can get yourself out of this situation in a way that works for you.

ori_b 17 hours ago 3 replies      
Groom someone to take over your role. Be honest with your cofounders, tell them you're feeling burned out and you need to take a step back to keep your sanity.

> The product is just too complicated (tons of domain knowledge required) for someone to come in and take over.

I doubt that this is actually true. It may take them time to ramp up, but you're there to guide them and mentor them.

> Additionally, the product just isn't that interesting (glorified CRUD app) and it's been hard to retain developers.

The fact that you're deeply involved and don't feel that other developers can step in, and at the same time feel like it's a glorified CRUD app hints that you may not be giving other developers enough autonomy or context on the problem.

If they are just working on simple CRUD stuff and have no context, the job is going to suck. But simple CRUD with context could be much more interesting.

And if all else fails, pay more.

dfuhriman 19 hours ago 6 replies      
The problem you are experiencing is a result of the lack of systems and processes in your business.

You need to make an important hire- you are missing a systematic. See, creatives like you are awesome at solving problems but hate to have structure and order because it doesn't allow you 100% freedom. But, as a result, you just have 100% creativity/problem solving- which is draining. The worst thing is, you can't even create the order you need to manage these things.

Systematics create structure and order in dynamic environments.

I wrote a book about this and other problems with innovation and how to solve them. It will be published later this year, but happy to provide an advanced copy to help work through seeing the problems you are facing.

The systematics in your business are meant to free you from the ongoing crap that you are experiencing.

scottbartell 11 hours ago 5 replies      
Are you familiar with the concept of the False dilemma[0]? It seems as if you've limited yourself to an "either/or" situation when in fact there are countless other possible solutions to this problem.

Here are some possible alternatives:

- find a leadership coach and/or mentor

- delegate the parts of your job that you like the least

- find a way to reduce stress in your life (exercise, hobby, etc)

- try professional therapy

- share how you feel with your friends and/or family (maybe even leadership team)

- take a vacation

- work less

- define and respect clear work/life boundaries for yourself

- read about/learn how to manage stress more effectively

- create a project plan for yourself (what do _you_ want to accomplish for _yourself_ in the next 3,6,12 months)

I could go on and on.

Another thing I think that you should ask yourself is: would you really be happier working at WalMart? Is it really this specific job and role that's causing your unhappiness? Is there really nothing you can change to make you job more enjoyable? Is it possible that you're creating your own unhappiness?

From personal experience I highly recommend finding a great leadership coach. I had a leadership coach who really helped me tackle some potentially similar challenges I was having.

If you want to talk more feel free to ping me. Good luck!

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_dilemma

rbistolfi 32 minutes ago 0 replies      
Hi founder,

I think you are idealizing other jobs because you are suffering in your current position.I am from a development country where many would give it all in exchange of being in your shoes. I don't mean that your problem is not real or important. What I want to say is that you may be missing a lot of positive value because your perspective is narrowed by how you feel. Talk with your wife, you will feel way better, I am sure she will understand and support you. Find professional help, like a therapist. Compensate your day at work with activities that you enjoy, this can do wonders!. Hire someone, maybe not for replacing you because that is too hard, but for helping you with your tasks and having more time for doing things you enjoy.I am sure you will be able to build the strength you need for going through the acquisition an collecting the goodies of the hard work you have done over the years.

I wish you all the best

apohn 19 hours ago 0 replies      
The last company I worked for acquired 2-3 companies per year, And it became obvious that in some cases the people who part of the acquisition were burned out and wanted to be free of their responsibilities. But they didn't have the financial wherewithal to just quit and move on.

A lot of them shifted into roles with different but less critical responsibilities. One person basically just turned into an evangelist, meeting customers and painting visions. It wasn't easy for them to keep going, but it's easier to keep going in that type of position because they weren't responsible for keeping the lights on.

I realize this isn't an answer, but maybe this is a way to keep going if you decide to stay with whomever acquires your company.

>The product is just too complicated (tons of domain knowledge required) for someone to come in and take over.

This is a very heavy burden. I was here once as an individual contributor and I ended up in the same state you are in now. It was absolutely awful. Even if somebody can't take over 100%, can they take over 25%?

Also, as others have said, find somebody to talk to. Assuming you have a decent marriage, cry in front of your wife so she knows what's going on. It's hard to move when you feel the whole world is resting on your shoulders.

bsvalley 21 hours ago 4 replies      
There is a huge misunderstanding from people in tech regarding blue collar jobs. You guys are way too naive about what it entails to work at a grocery store or on a construction site.

I've done it a few times during summer while studying CS to pay for my bills. They do shifts from 4am-12pm, or 12pm-8pm, or even night shift... They treat you like a bad kid, you get humiliated 24h/7 by who ever is higher in the "hierarchy". On top of that your body takes a hit since most of these jobs are very physical. You get back home sore, exhausted, sometimes it turns into real health issues like tendonitis, chronic lower back pain, etc. Trust me after 2 months working at a factory you'd hate your life. You'd hate yourself. Some people get stuck in this nasty world for decades...

You-I-we, the tech people, love to think there's a better world out there by lowering the level to its bare minimum. It's actually the opposite effect but you have to experience it to understand what I'm talking about. So go back to work and keep cashing out, or, go fishing on an island.

coreyp_1 20 hours ago 4 replies      
You're right: 1 person can't replace you. Can 3? Can 5? You must reorganize, if merely to save your sanity. Hire 1 person and start training them, then hire the next.

For 1 week, write down everything that you do for your company, and then group the like tasks in order to figure out how many/what type of person(people) to hire/train. Start looking for that person, while writing down everything that you do the 2nd week. Rinse and repeat as you go through the month/quarter, and you should develop a better idea of what it will take to replace you.

The LOI writers know that you are doing the job of multiple people, and that you are indispensable, and that's why they want to require you to stay. Make yourself replaceable, and then there would be no need for you to stay. Work from a beach if you want, but take action now to permanently lessen your stress.

Feel free to reach out if you want to talk (or just vent) privately. You can find me through info in my HN profile.

brightball 2 hours ago 0 replies      
I'm a little late on this one but I'd echo what many others here have said, find a way to push through to the sale and then talk with the board to first, distribute your workload and/or define an exit strategy.

You're essentially sitting on a lottery ticket and when it hits, you'll have a heck of a lot more free time.

Just looking at this from another perspective, I tried running a contract programming business for a few years that sucked up my life and eventually put me in the hospital at age 30. That business never consistently made money. Contract programming is very much a peaks-and-valleys experience and once you experience that for long enough you end up working like that. You kill yourself on the peaks in hopes to not experience the valleys. When it was over I was so happy to have a 40 hour a week job...it's a vacation by comparison.

Consistency is the key. If you've got something that is generating a steady income, enough that it's profitable enough to be acquired...then it's on you to scale yourself down.

It's also within your ability to do so. I see that you've cited domain specific knowledge. All knowledge can be learned and taught. You might not be able to hire somebody off the street like that, but you can most likely hire a few people and delegate. If the work isn't interesting, then you need to find a way to enhance the experience for people working there. Make the hours creative or the opportunity unique. See if you can find ways to let people experiment or add their own flavor to it. If it's wood-chopping dull, then maybe those creative efforts are better focused on automating the day to day?

Wrote about my experience here if it helps:


reckoner2 19 hours ago 3 replies      
There are professionals out there whose job it is to help out people in situations like yours. Before you make any life changing decisions I would talk to one.

CEO's, Hedgefund Managers, Sport Stars, they all talk to psychologists. Give it a try.

jly 16 hours ago 0 replies      
This is minor depression, related to your work. I would emphasize that your thoughts are not irrational or misplaced, no matter how much money is on the table or how the situation might look to an outsider. The fact that you are currently hiding it is also not abnormal. Your mind is unconsciously focusing energy on analysis of your problems and how you might solve them, and you may be on the edge of signaling for help, implied by the crying.

Youre tightly ensnared in an overly restrictive set of obligations. Perhaps its classic burnout from just plain working too much in a demanding role, or perhaps you have new ideas about how to make a living that would require new employment which is restricted by your LOI terms. Perhaps it's something else altogether or a combination of things. In any case, the symptoms are a direct response to these socially-imposed constraints hindering your pursuit of something more appealing, that in your view are beyond conventional means of renegotiation.

It would help immensely to talk with someone - therapist, your wife, etc - and help work through why you are feeling this way and what changes can be made to alleviate the mismatch. There are many good pieces of advice already in the comments here. Just remember that things cannot continue the way they are now without some kind of situational change (not drugs) or your symptoms will only get worse and more debilitating. Good luck.

Lordarminius 20 hours ago 0 replies      
I have a few thoughts.

First of all it sounds a lot to me like you are suffering from burnout. You need to see someone about this (not necessarily a health professional, perhaps a mentor or confidant, someone accessible, whose opinions you respect)

You have come a long way and achieved something that is not trivial. You are entitled to cash out. I am however wary of the terms you hint at. I would NEVER do a deal where a significant portion of my compensation is dependent on future income from the business I am selling. NEVER.Once the acquirer takes over, decisions are out of your hands and it is his/her prerogative to grow the business or run it down. Why should you tie yourself to such an uncertain future ?My reading of your situation is that you should try to get a deal where you stay on only long enough to transfer your knowledge to your replacement. 1 year is sufficient for that; 4 years essentially makes you a bonded servant.Have you retained the services of a professional to help with the acquisition? If 'No', do so asap.

I mention these points because although your intention is not to stir up a debate about terms of purchase, I think they stand out as potentially significant stressors.

Every field looks green when you are in burn-out-land but resist the temptation to think that dish-washing, bar tending or whatever menial task you presently romanticize, represents a step up from your present condition.I agree with @bsvalley. His answer is on point.

I would talk to the missus. That's what she's there for - moral support; but its difficult to give support to a person who hasn't asked for it.

Finally. I will say congratulations! You are on the last lap of a very difficult race. Not many people get to this point. Don't falter here. The reward for all your effort and sacrifice will be financial freedom, time for leisure and a sense of accomplishment - and maybe opportunity (on much better terms) to become a bartender after all :)

beejiu 20 minutes ago 0 replies      
If you feel like you are suffering from depression, see a doctor. They can give advice specific to your situation, which might involve therapy or drugs. The treatments do work.
ParameterOne 20 hours ago 0 replies      
After astronauts came back from space a lot of them became alcoholics or developed other problems. NASA found that the reason for this is because most of them had only one goal in life, one target, to travel in to space. (what tops that!) With out any other goals they became lost, confused, and depressed. I say stay and take the buyout, and while you are bored in your boring day job chair, start thinking of awesome new goals, big and small, great new things to change your life, make a huge list of them that will keep you going till you are well over a hundred years old.
o2l 9 hours ago 1 reply      
I have not been a founder of any company so I can't comment on that part. But I can strongly related to this part - "what it would be like to work at Wal Mart, or the construction site outside, or as a bagger at a grocery store"

I am a passionate web developer but a few months ago, I had these exact same thoughts mainly about switching to a low stress job. Later I realised that I needed a break badly and the monotonousness of work ( building some kind of CRUD all day ) for me personally was making my life severely discomforting. So I left the job against everyone's advice and for the next few months I had terrible arguments with my family about this decision. But I was at peace the moment after I left the job and I think it was the right decision, even though my family wants me to regret it.

It's not that you hate what you do, but you definitely need a break and not just like a vacation, but actual handing over of responsibilities to someone else. After a few months, I felt like being back into the business and the optimism for work was back.

So this is probably against what everyone else is advising here but if you don't like it, leave it. Your wife should understand this too, if this is so important to you that it makes you cry. And definitely take up a stress free job for a change. It should help.

As far as leaving the company goes, you might find someone in ranks just below you who could be able enough to take over most aspects of your position.

Let me know, if you think this is a completely wrong advice.

daxfohl 1 hour ago 0 replies      
Take a trip to the doctor, get some antidepressants or anti-anxiety medication prescribed. They'll level you out so you can focus rationally on getting stuff done without the anxiety. I never had much luck with therapy, but meds worked phenomenally. (And I was very very reluctant to start, fearing long-term effects, but after a few months I was able to come off of them with no problems).

This project sounds like not a big life goal for you, so once you're stable, plan a nice end game. Plan for it to happen sooner rather than later. Think about other life goals you have, and how you can pursue them afterwards. Try to make time for these things. Anti-anxiety meds will help you do this. You regain a lot of time that unconsciously allocated to fretting.

Let good enough be good enough. Try to get the company into a reasonable position but don't feel like it has to be perfect. Downsize a bit if need be. Learn to say No. People's lives are not dependent on your ability to do stuff for them. Focus on those things that create the most value with the least time/stress.

Once you get to this point, you may even decide you like the company enough to stick with it.

pmarreck 1 hour ago 0 replies      
couple thoughts. note: 45 and have seen much drama in my life:

1) At some point you SHOULD try one of those other jobs. Bartending, etc. See how the other side lives. Exercise your freedom and don't feel constrained to do this sort of work (even though the ship currently depends on you right now to keep acting in this role in order not to sink).

2) You should really have a better relationship with your wife. Open up to her in ALL ways, and she might surprise you.

3) I don't understand how the product could not be that interesting AND YET it is just too complicated. People generally find complexity interesting. What am I missing, here?

4) Perhaps you're burnt-out? When's the last time you took a 2 week vacation? You NEED to figure out how to make it possible to disappear for a while. Because your sanity depends on it.

That all said... here is a bro-hug. People obviously find your work valuable. Take solace in that for the time being, at least.

throwaway122394 2 hours ago 1 reply      
As a founder I can definitely relate.

Everyday driving to/from the office my chest is so tight it feels hard to breath. I constantly think about my old friends that have real weekends, have time for hobbies, and get to leave their work at work.

The main reason I keep going is that I actually enjoy the work. When I take a break I get excited about going back and continuing to build the company.

Having worked landscaping/construction before starting a company, I can say I often think fondly of the simplicity of those jobs. Though when I was there I all I could think about was starting my own company.

You really need to find a way to be happy regardless of what you're doing. That may be by just cutting back on how much you are working, delegating more, and finding meaning outside of work.

8f2ab37a-ed6c 17 hours ago 0 replies      
Seems like a complex issue, but at least as far as your mental health goes: reach out to your doc, get connected with a therapist.

I've been in a very similar situation as a first time founder for over half a decade, and getting professional help to deal with anxiety, burnout and depression was super helpful. I was spending days staring at the screen phasing out, couldn't get out of bed, crying, deriving no pleasure from anything, and all that jazz. This lasted over a year before it got bad enough I had to reach out for help. I was going to either quit and/or accidentally take the company down with me.

No pills involved to fix it in my case, just a lot of techniques and practices prescribed by the therapist that help you keep your sanity over the long term. You can get over it within a couple of months if you are diligent about staying on top of the process.

I suspect that almost every high performer who pushes hard in their career will eventually get to this point, it's normal, you need to learn how to deal with the level of anxiety that these positions can induce. Just like most super successful people have coaches, I think most super successful people have therapists keeping them afloat.

molyss 10 hours ago 0 replies      
If you don't already have professional help (therapy), seek some.

I've experience the hour long crying showers first hand, and I don't wish it to anyone. Don't minimize how you feel, and don't blame/shame yourself. Therapy can be scary and still cary a stigma, but it's basically allowed me to be myself.

I am no founder myself, so I don't pretend to know what you're going through, but I know the symptoms. Let me know if you want to discuss this further

lastofus 19 hours ago 0 replies      
I think part of the problem is that being a founder of a profitable tech company is painted as the promise land, filled with riches and being the master of your own destiny.

The reality is that it's a job like any other, but with way more stress, hours, responsibility, and people's livelihood depending on you not fucking up.

A big part of the problem is that it is rather difficult to talk about burnout, depression, etc with others as people think you are living the dream. Not to mention, it's expected you keep up appearances as the person steering the ship.

The only way to survive this and keep going is to find people you open up to, to talk things out and work through the shit. It kind of sounds like you are keeping this from your wife, at least in part, which is a big red flag. If you don't feel comfortable sharing everything with your partner in life, who can you talk to for support?

Don't keep on trying to fix this on your own.

rbobby 13 hours ago 0 replies      
You could be suffering from major depression, aka clinical depression (maybe not... but some of what you said rings that warning bell for me). The crying in the shower is probably the biggest bell ringer for me.

I've known a couple of tech types (one dev, one a pm) that both found out that they were clinically depressed. They've both bounced back from it and are their old selves again.

Major depression is a serious medical issue and can happen to anyone... there's nothing to be ashamed of (and anyone who thinks otherwise is ignorant). Treatment is usually talk therapy and antidepressants (and usually some time away from work... expecting a sick person to be at work while they're undergoing treatment is plain wrong).

Googling "major depression" will show you lots of resources... but talking to your doctor about this is your first step (this can be tough... but you can do it). Don't put that off. Especially don't put that off due to worry about step 2 though N.

So... your 2 options are really 3: See a doctor!

Best of luck (and feel free to reach out and I'll offer what advice/help I can).

gumby 10 hours ago 1 reply      
I've been there. I was unhappy, I left, I felt better. Later I started other businesses.

In my case the threshold is ~200 people; after that I don't really recognize everyone. In once case I was having fun but my wife was miserable.

In all these cases I was glad I left.

Now: if an acquisition truly is imminent, and you can hang on a bit longer, go for it. The buyer will be able to find someone to run the business, perhaps internal, perhaps not. It likely won't happen overnight (unless they have someone in mind already) but some pressure will come off you immediately.

If the acquisition isn't truly imminent you can indeed start looking for someone to run the business. Believe me there are people with domain experience and executional experience you can find. Use an executive headhunter. Have your board members help.

Sounds like burnout. Take it seriously, but it doesn't mean all is lost! Those LOIs are light at the end of the tunnel.

Oh, and consider therapy. You may or may not need drugs, but they probably aren't the first line of therapy. The talk therapy is good, and as a CEO you probably have nobody else to talk to about certain things -- especially if you think you can't talk to your spouse about stuff. Talk therapy is not a sign of weakness -- in fact you sound like the kind of person who has their act together (probably you don't feel like it, but your note says you understand something's not right), and so you probably will benefit a lot from it. Many people in the valley, especially top execs, are in therapy and it helps them a lot.

sarah180 17 hours ago 0 replies      
"Sucking it up" isn't actually an option. You're describing a mental health crisis. Unless other people might literally die (e.g., you're a soldier, police officer, etc) then your job is not worth sacrificing your own life.

Consider another perspective: if you get to the breaking point, which you're near, you're going to leaveeither because you quit or because you wind up in a hospital. You think you're importantbut you are not helping the company if your only options are to quit or die of overwork. Both of those situations end up with 0% of your energy going to the business.

Many people mentioned therapy, which I think is a good idea for everybody. My recommendation is to draw a boundary. Say "here's how much energy I feel comfortable putting in." Then really reflect on how to use that energy in the way that will help the company the most. That might mean hiring or training people. It might mean continuing to do what you do now, but letting more things fall to othersor just letting some things not happen.

You are more valuable to your company if you are healthy and present than if you are unhealthy and quit. When you start to feel "my only option is to quit because I'm too important" you're just indulging in a fantasy of running away.

endlessvoid94 16 hours ago 1 reply      
How big is the company?

You're right to identify this as a hard problem. I've been in your exact shoes before. 100+ person company, the weight is heavy.

The good news is that it's totally possible to get out without wrecking the company's outlook. But it does take a minor amount of time investment. Perhaps it's possible to view it as a new challenge: how to quickly hire or find someone within your org who is capable of taking over your day-to-day responsibilities? Who do people ask for decisions / advice when you're out sick?

Frame it as a promotion for them. Give them a (small) comp bump and a new set of responsibilities that include most (or all) of your existing responsibilities.

Coach them for a quarter, give them enough rope to hang themselves with, give them radically candid feedback, and then you can step away. (Or even go do something else interesting at the company!)

I can go into a lot more detail if you'd like -- please email me. The username in my profile (not my HN handle) at gmail.

Good luck, positive vibes!

P.S. Watch this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OqmdLcyES_Q as a jumpstart to getting your org ready for life without you

nhod 16 hours ago 0 replies      
I would recommend investing in a CEO or Executive Coach. It is lonely at the top even with mentors and spouses. Hiring my CEO Coach years ago was among the best decisions I have ever made on any level. It paid for itself immediately certainly from a financial perspective, but also (and more importantly) from an emotional and mental health perspective. This, in turn, allowed me to see things through new eyes and push through barriers I otherwise was stuck behind. I became a better leader, a better husband, and a better person as a result, and I transformed my life and my company in the process. Not sure if it's kosher or not to push someone's services here but I don't really care; this particular coach changed my life for the better, and I know he could change yours too. Dale Larson at Startup Happiness: https://startuphappiness.com/
agitator 18 hours ago 1 reply      
Dude, talk to your wife about it. I feel like I wouldn't get through 50% of the stress in life without having someone who cares about me more than I do to bounce ideas and thoughts off of.
mindcrime 21 hours ago 1 reply      
I mean, it's hard to truly know what somebody else is experiencing and to give advice in a situation like that. But if you're that close to an acquisition and if the acquistion stands to make a material difference in your life going forward (like, does it get you to "fu money"), then I'd lean towards "suck it up and stay long enough to cash out". OTOH, if the acquisition gets you, say, enough money for a new car, but not enough to retire, (just to use made up parameters), then maybe it makes sense to just walk away. But even then, I wonder if you'll feel a lot of regret over spending so much time building something, and then walking away right before a big milestone.

Maybe a nice, long vacation would be a good step before making any drastic decisions. Could you arrange to take 3-4 weeks off and go somewhere quiet and relax for a bit before deciding?

thiagooffm 7 hours ago 0 replies      
You are overvaluating the wallmart job and thinking it "seems" stress free. The truth is that if you want to do anything at a very competitive level, even packaging goods at the counter, it WILL be stressful.

You could also stop stressing: don't answer the calls, let your business slide and go bankrupt.

Running a business is no easy feat. As you've got that far, you probably know that. You are likely tired because of it, which is normal, everybody gets tired and there's nothing wrong with you or your business.

I think what you need is to perhaps promote someone or get a friend to help you. I don't see how a domain can be so insanely complex and out of reality for everyone. You probably just need someone and that someone to spend enough time with you.

My point with stress is that I don't necessarily own a business anymore and never had as much success as you doing that, I'm not about to cash in some big money which would allow me to follow other passions I have. After some failed startups, I work for a big business and the only thing that changed was the job "security". Instead of having to look for a new job every year or so, now I don't anymore, but it's stressful: I want to do my best.

The same happens when I try to play the guitar, I get also tired, stressed out. Then I give it a pause. As with a business or work, you can't pause, but you can always ask for help.

0x4f3759df 1 hour ago 0 replies      
You feel like you have no good options. There are always more options. Take a book-vacation. Get a bunch of biographies and go somewhere by yourself for a weekend and read other people's stories and you will get some perspective that might lead you to discover your options.
lunaru 14 hours ago 0 replies      
Being a founder is tough and the grind several years in can feel like a heavy burden. However, it sounds like with the LOI, you might be looking at an opportunity that comes with a welcome change of pace.

Directly answering your original question, I would take a serious look at option #2 ("Suck it up and work on the same thing for 2-5 more years").

In my personal experience, I sold my previous company to a much larger company some years back and it was a great change. Even though it was "working on the same thing" for 3 more years, there were new people to meet and new challenges to tackle. After all, humans are a social species and just having a different set of people to interact with can be a much needed change.

You might be thinking you'll be working on the same problems, but really it will be nothing alike. Your work might get better or it might get worse, but I guarantee that you and your company post-acquisition will be experiencing something very different. And I'm not just talking about the money part. That might be very helpful to get you out of this unhappy burnout.

If you need someone to chat with over email about what might be upcoming if you decide to take the deal, feel free to hit me up. Contact info in profile.

osmala 1 hour ago 1 reply      
Tim Ferris: Four Hour Workweek .Eliminate, Automate, Delegate...

It can give you ideas on how to delegate more.

Secondly figure out how to retain developers. If it causes you stress and hiring is real expense then you should invest in fixing it.Make developer work environment as good as possible and maybe pay slightly above market pay.Your job is to fix the environment to reduce turn over to compensate the boring product with other factors they value.

yanilkr 19 hours ago 0 replies      
I can relate to the pain. The mind seems to never stop and it seems to be in a perpetual state of anxiety.

I dealt with burnout several times. The only thing that helped me deal with it was turn off electronic devices after certain time of the day and before certain time of the day. No tv, no phone, no laptop, not even your favorite meditation app. Do anything which does not involve electronics or information heavy.

Much other advice about how to deal with such issues over long term are easier said than done. Some of my favorite ideas are

Build sustainability into your engineering, product and sales process. It's like running a marathon. If you run too fast in the beginning, you get tired so easily.

Be less outcome dependent and more discipline driven. If you plan to make incremental progress, you will eventually have something stable and it gets easy to continue. If you need a constant rush of positive outcomes to get you to do something, it does not build resilience to last longer.

wpietri 15 hours ago 0 replies      
Regarding hiring somebody for the day-to-day, maybe you'll find this story from another founder useful:


I suggest that you have two kinds of problem: a daily happiness deficit and a long-term happiness debt. Your day-to-day life has been grinding you down for a while.

You'll have to make two kinds of changes. One is to pay down the giant debt. E.g., once you get acquired, take a serious vacation. But the other, the more important one, is to make sure that most days are at least modestly positive for you.

I'd also suggest you find a therapist. You may have to try a few before you find one that's a good match. They can help you figure out whether it's depression or just a reasonable reaction to a bad situation. Either way, they can also help you figure out ways of coping

Think of it like hiring a lawyer: Sure, you could figure all the contracts out yourself, but the lawyer has more training and much more experience. It's the same deal with therapy. A good therapist will be able to see patterns you are missing because they have seen it many times before.

Feel free to email me (contact info in my profile). I'm glad to correspond or talk on the phone if you'd like to discuss this further.

threesixandnine 19 hours ago 2 replies      
Go work on a contruction site for a few days. You'll be running back to your old 'miserable life', believe you me.

What is it with this romantic view of supposedly stress free jobs of filling shelves with food or digging a hole for a garden tree ( the easiest thing in construction ).

I feel your pain since I get similar feelings as you sometimes but then I remember 20 something me doing roofing and breaking ice on a path with a big ass hammer for tourists to enjoy a walk around the lake. It sucks.

I can only offer you one solution that I would personally do if I were at your place right now... Sell asap and move on.

heimatau 2 hours ago 0 replies      
For what it's worth, my advice would be to get the sale done with conditions that you DON'T have to work for 2-5 years.

If you have enough money to take a Sabbatical, then do it, 3 months or 6 months. I know many (mostly in academic field) that tend to 'find themselves' when they do these every 10 years or so.

You sound like you're suffering from burnout. When is the last time you took an extended rest? I'd strongly advise that. Best of luck to you and I hope this reaches you! :)

TallGuyShort 2 hours ago 0 replies      
If the third option of hiring someone to do your day to day really was impossible, this would never end. I would strongly recommend getting someone to come on board and start trying to take off some of the load / get up to speed. It might take a long time but either you're going to quit and ruin it anyway, it's going to kill you and that'll ruin it anyway, or that has to happen eventually. Start now. I get why it's hard: attracting someone who's committed, getting the incentives right for them to not feel the same way in 2 years, etc. But it's really worth focusing on attacking those specific issues as soon as you feel up to it. Even if the person just takes over some QA work / automation / simpler features and fixes, etc. Doesn't necessarily require an unreasonable amount of domain knowledge but if it frees up a couple of hours a day for you, you could take a hike in the mornings and stop feeling like crying about what you're not experiencing every day (or whatever it is you'd love to do instead of work).

More immediately - it sounds like you need a vacation. I've been there with the whole fantasizing-about-walmart-construction-sites-and-grocery-stores but it's a dead-end in the long-run. Every job will wear on you and come with it's own set of hardship. Mentally less stressful? Possibly. But think of the very different set of people you'll interact with - possibly a huge culture shock. Think of what a bad day at work might look like at a construction site. In the rain and cold, a little physically injured, maybe having to deal with a client that's trying to screw your crew over on the contract? Probably making less money? And dealing with all the comes with? It's not much of a greener pasture once you get into it. I would bet what you're really in need of is a break and a change of scenery for a little while. If you can make that happen (and again - you need to or this is all destined for failure at some point), try that and see how you feel when you come back.

By all means keep talking to people who have been there to get input - probably a lot of us on HN. Don't take all of it as gospel, but you're definitely not the only person to go through this, and you won't be the only person to figure out a way through it.

themantalope 3 hours ago 0 replies      
OP, sounds like youre experiencing some real burnout. It's OK, it happens to a lot of people. Couple things to think about.

1) Are there ways you can keep going but change something to help? Going to see a therapist? Taking a short break? Talking about what's going on with your family? When you're stressed it's hard to remember all the support structures out there.

2) You need to ask yourself what is it worth to stay where you are (from a financial point of view). Is it worth a big payout in a few months to a year? Getting acquired is a good way to earn a big pile of FU money quick - and that will buy you all the time to relax and recoup that you need.

Do what you need to do to get better, and dont trash what youve worked hard to build! You can do it! Hope to see you post your success story a few months/years from now!

smoyer 4 hours ago 0 replies      
I've been in jobs that I've hated and have a fail-safe trick - hire people to do the parts of the job that you hate. There was obviously something that enamored by when you decided to found the start-up. Are you still in love with that technology/solution? Are you sure you don't just hate the increasing management and paperwork duties?

As a founder, you're always going to have to deal with strategic situations (like the sale of the company) but you'd be surprised how much of the day-to-day work you can pawn off on a recent MBA graduate. I'm also wondering if you've come to hate the job because of the work involved with finding a buyer and working towards the sale. It's grueling! But it's also over when the sale is complete.

Good luck!

leandot 8 hours ago 0 replies      
My sincere 2 cents:1) talk to your wife2) get the best deal out of your pending acquisition - highest cash component upfront3) find and train someone to take your place4) at that point check if you are still so unhappy - leave or stay5) do what makes you happy
congerous 5 hours ago 0 replies      
I've been there. A ton of good advice is on this thread. You need to try to influence your internal state chemically if you want to stay on track. Exercise, medication, meditation, eating and sleeping healthy are all helpful. It's also good to reconnect with people that matter to you: family, friends, etc. If you're closing the deal, and the money is significant, just think what you could do for them, or for other people who need help. And find ways to spend more time with them, because our lives are defined by our relationships. You could say your self exists to the extent that your in conversation with people who understand you. So go find with and be with them. It'll help you refuel.
twobyfour 19 hours ago 0 replies      
Why don't you want your wife to know?

Your personal support network is exactly what you need to be able to lean on to get through stressful times.

nish1500 4 hours ago 0 replies      
I was in the same position sometime back.

I was convinced that chasing startup money and fame was some objective form of happiness. The chase never made me happy.

Luckily, I woke up before I made any hires. My startup is still profitable, but it's more of a lifestyle business now. I work enough to make sure the profits don't fall.

I use my time to travel the world, live out of a backpack, make friends, do shit that scares me. Still struggling with the last part.

Last month I volunteered at a not-for-profit pay-as-you-go restaurant taking orders and cleaning tables and it made me the happiest I have been in almost a year.

I am also exploring my other passions - fitness, food, nutrition.

You know best what you need to do. I thought I'd share what I did.

palerdot 1 hour ago 0 replies      
Maybe you are under depression. Give yourself some slack and take one day at a time.
carlsborg 17 hours ago 0 replies      
Book into a high end beach resort for a week and work from one of those terrace lounges overlooking the water with wifi. Strictly limit the scope of things you will work on. This worked really well to soothe that decision fatigue/burnout feeling for me at least.
nerdy 12 hours ago 0 replies      
I'd encourage you to be transparent with your wife.

Tell her your situation. Ask what she thinks. Discuss options. Execute upon your mutual decision. Do it when you two have time to dig into the details.

Don't rush it but if you're unhappy that's no way to live. I'm leaving my company this summer, my business partner has known for some time. My wife knew first.

Look, I really don't know your situation but you might want to ask yourself why you felt it necessary to hide it from your wife. Can you not be honest with her? Are you trying to protect her? And if so, does it really protect her from anything or just give her a warped perception of the circumstances? Her opinion of this makes way more of a difference than anyone on HN.

Love your wife and be open and honest with her. She's far more important than any business.

burner_qwert 4 hours ago 0 replies      
Had something similar, but alone ...

Weekdays: appear strong, I'm responsible for 30 people, nobody can see that I'm vulnerable.

Weekends: massive bingie, parties, alcohol, coke, hookers...

Last year in april after a 4 day weekend I almost died, had to call the ambulance on myself. My legs and arms started to feel numb, couldn't move them, was scary. Called the ambulance, they said that go to the street wait for them, and under no circumstances close my eyes. It was really hard to keep them open, but when I heard the sirens just snaped. Had this thought closing my eyes that I may never open them again. Turns out that I didn't drink enough water, and my blood got so dense that my heart couldn't circulate it. Wake up in the ambulance car still in my street feeling pretty well, bribed them so they say they haven't found me, because I had a big contract signing in 5 hours.

Then I reached out for help, on therapy since. Before that I was thinking about it for long, but how should I choose, etc. Doesn't matter, just went with the first one I found sympathetic online.

The second one is sport, get your self time to move 2-3 times a week, does wonders.

I wish I could say I haven't touched any substances since, but currently I feel much better.

So get therapy and start to move, that worked for me.

manigandham 7 hours ago 0 replies      
Why do you think you only have 2 options?

Suck it up, get the sale done (especially when you're so close to improving the lives of your other founders) then take a vacation and recharge.

If you need to quit at that point then do so, but at least you're not taking the rest of the team with you. Would you feel ok if they did the same to you? You signed up for a team sport, hold the line and finish the job.

jacquesm 16 hours ago 0 replies      
Well, you're about to be acquired. Tough it out, insist on being paid in cash and live long and happily ever after. Simple!

The idea that you are essential to allow the company to be acquired is most likely nonsense, I've yet to meet someone that could not be replaced with some goodwill and hard work to transfer responsibilities. Better that than to have someone that does not really want to work!

sebastianconcpt 18 hours ago 0 replies      
A crisis of meaning. Need to understand better the sources of unhappiness. Is just being tired or bored? is being close to burnout? is because you are alone too much on job tasks? All those areas are "workable". I wouldn't hesitate to have a session with a psyche professional to help to dig on those things in an manageable way. Maybe the best outcome is to be acquired, maybe you are close to reach something important and this is your inner resistance.
owens99 8 hours ago 0 replies      
There's a lot of great advice here on what to do. The one thing I want to add is see a doctor for your depression. It sounds like everything in your business is going well and you should be proud of yourself, yet personally you feel at the lowest point. Burn out is real and happens to most entrepreneurs who go the distance. When you get depressed, your mind focuses on negative memories and situations and you get trapped in a train of negative thought. Even though, almost every negative memory can be thought of in a positive way. There was one time where I felt like you do, and after working on my depression I was able to recognize the negative thoughts in my mind and start to look at them in a different way. Once this happened I felt like a completely new person and was able to look at the same data in a different way that made me feel empowered and hopeful. Depression will destroy you if you don't get it treated. Happiness is a conscious decision and you can recover from your burn out if you shift your perspective.
meerita 3 hours ago 0 replies      
Hi, I hope you find out the light at the end of the tunnel. Regarding your situation, I would think about this as a project, a project to go out. It has to be planned and executed. That helped me out many years ago. You don't need to quit now but bear in mind crying doesn't take to the shore.
deepGem 9 hours ago 0 replies      
I feel your pain. I honestly think you should talk to your wife or your close friends about this. You'll be surprised how people help out when they know you are in distress.

Also, taking on a different activity that involves leadership might greatly help in boosting your morale. What you have done with your company is quite commendable that you should be proud of. If I were you, I would focus all my energies on the company's future post acquisition. To think of ways of growing the company beyond what it is today and see the acquisition as a possible out in that direction, not the end goal in itself might be helpful.You might also want to try to accomplish something in a field that you have no clue about but is not super hard on your brain. For instance, you could learn ballroom or Tango. You could also join a basic mountaineering course. You'll be out in the nature and accomplishing an endurance task. All your energies will be focused away from your day to day mind numbing activities and towards accomplishing a very different goal.

Good luck !

mindfulgeek 14 hours ago 0 replies      
In my experience, if I am wondering if I am depressed it is because I am, it just happened slowly over time, like a frog boiling in water. I didn't realize it happened until the water was bubling all around me and I was doing things like crying in the bathroom, alone and scared. Please get professional support. Things are much better than they seem. You are on the brink of many founders dreams, but you are stuck in a nightmare. It will go away and you will find joy again. You've already taken your first step in finding it. Good luck. This too shall pass.
soneca 14 hours ago 0 replies      
Holly shit a lot of weird things being said about the role of the wife. I agree with most of downvotes and wholeheartly agree with sharing with your wife.

Just commenting in a new thread to give a suggestion: have you considered promoting someone to your executive position? A founder stepping down to a "more suited" executive might not hurt the acquisition.

And I would give another thought about hiring someone for the role.

I think "sucking up" is the worst option and leaving without a plan the second worst.

Anyway, I wish you good luck. I am not a founder, but fortunately you can find advice from the right people.

daniel_levine 17 hours ago 0 replies      
Ping me. I know some folks who would probably consider buying the product without forcing you to keep working on it. It's more common than you might think.
gigatexal 1 hour ago 0 replies      
Get bought out and go on a much deserved vacation?
zeta0134 14 hours ago 0 replies      
Throwaway, this sounds like a classic case of burnout, and I don't know how to say this in a way that isn't going to sound rough, so here it is: You're doing your company a disservice by staying in your current state.

If you're unhappy with your work, you won't be passionate about leading a company. Especially through an acquisition, your colleagues are looking at you, a founder, as a leader, and drawing on you for strength. If you can find it within yourself to be that leader, then that's great! In that case, you probably shouldn't also be the lead developer, and given your extensive domain specific knowledge, it sounds like you might be doing too much all at once. I can't know; I'm not in your shoes, so this is all an outsider looking in.

It sounds like for the moment, what you really need is to pull back and relax, take some time for yourself, and recover. Your body only has so much willpower to go around, and if you get in the habit of exhausting that regularly, you'll burn out every time. Figure out if reducing your role at the company will let you continue, and do that if you want. Or, if you need to craft an exit plan, do that as well, and find someone just as passionate as you to fill your shoes. But take care of yourself first!

inuhj 14 hours ago 0 replies      
If it's any consolation I feel the same way. Company is doing 1.6MM/mo in revenue but I haven't been excited about it in over a year. I've put good people in place but I'm tired of getting up everyday and facing the exact same problems we faced 4 years ago. I'm at least 2 years out from acquisition so I'm spending my time trying to develop some satisfying hobbies. I restarted therapy a month ago and that's helping.
mrwnmonm 15 hours ago 0 replies      
> I drift off into exploring what it would be like to work at Wal Mart, or the construction site outside, or as a bagger at a grocery store. It seems so stress free.

I feel this too, when it comes to programming, there are small number of positions that would makes me happy, but if i would have to deal with CRUD apps, i would prefer a job like you have mentioned.

Now i want a job that i don't care about, that leave my mind in peace, so i would dive in theoretical computer science with a free mind.

jondubois 7 hours ago 0 replies      
I'm so jealous, I feel offended reading this post. I would shovel pig shit for 2 years straight if it meant that I would be able to retire at the end.
donohoe 3 hours ago 0 replies      
1. Talk to your wife. She is there for you too.

2. Talk to a therapist or counselor. They can be amazing and helpful in ways you don't realize.

arsenico 6 hours ago 0 replies      
Speaking from a completely different perspective, where we had a wonderful company, and would have never sold unless could not raise money anymore - sell, take money, then indeed hire someone to do your day-to-day, take a sabbatical and come up with a new idea and a new company.
lazyjones 16 hours ago 0 replies      
I was in a similar situation a few years ago - not as badly burned out and wanting to quit, but having a strong desire to do something else after 17 years(!) on the same project, with me as sole founder and still major developer/"architect". We were also in acquisition talks back then and minor health issues (that turned out to be rather major ones later) didn't help.

What happened next:

* the acquisition - I discussed the possibility of leaving and insisted that the new owners obtain much more than just a slim majority, so I didn't have to worry as much about the future of the company if I left (it would have been annoying to have a major stake and no control, particularly as an opinionated ex-founder). It wasn't easy and my plans certainly didn't affect the price positively, but we found a good solution.

* I left rather quickly (a few months after closing the deal) and nominated a most suitable candidate for CEO who had been in the company for ~12 years. He's not a developer, but he's doing great and the company is thriving. They hardly ever need to ask me things about old code now. In hindsight, everyone is happy that a larger stake changed hands.

So, that's my recommendation based on personal experience. Stick around till the acquisition and make sure you can leave without causing major problems. Good luck! Remember that as a founder, you might misjudge/overrate how much the company actually depends on you.

PS. as for "other plans", life makes its own - I have been mostly dealing with my health issues lately, so it's safe to say I was better off beforehand. C'est la vie...

ge96 12 hours ago 0 replies      
Isn't that funny the grass is greener thing... washing plates might seem stress free, but you're the dog of the kitchen... have to deal with people's shit. Everybody throws the word "sorry" around.

I'm just speaking my experience as a guy on the shit-end of the stick haha by my own doing. If you're at this level/credibility why do some shit job. I realize you said stress free but being a drone/laborer sucks I'd like to lobotomize myself to escape from reality sometimes.

Going on someone's thought of "died in a car crash... continue..." maybe once you're acquired someone can take over your role after you train them/and be a consultant. I wouldn't know I only dream to be where you are at this point in my life cycle.

bowthy 4 hours ago 0 replies      
It could be the routine and long hours that's driving you to this dispair. I had many jobs before being a dev, including supermarket and bar jobs. They mostly sucked because I had close to zero control of my environment.

Being a dev is the best by far. I have a lot of control. Not without stress though. Best antidotes to stress for me are cycling to work, swimming in cold lakes, weight lifting, hours of device free time with wife and children.

As a founder aren't you in a priviledged position of being able to change whatever you want? If not, what's the point?

rcazangi 17 hours ago 0 replies      
First congrats on taking the first step and sharing your pain.

As others have said, this is not uncommon and you're not alone. It has everything to do with your mental health and well being. I've been through something very similar and it basically revolves around burnout, stress, depression, anxiety and some times panic attacks (e.g. crying uncontrollably). While you don't treat those and their root causes, you won't be solving the problem.

Treating means reaching out to experts (psychologist/psychiatrist) and sharing your burden and feelings with others. It's fundamental that you share it with your wife and once you feel more comfortable, with friends. You will notice how that will make you feel lighter and better.

Remember, people care about you and you're not alone. If your current situation is destroying your health, it's not worth it whatever $$$ is involved. Thus, take care of your health first and foremost. In parallel, learn (via therapy, meditation, physical activities, hobbies, etc.) how to deal with tough situations like this - life is full of them. That will not only prepare you for future difficulties but also bring joy and excitement back to your day-to-day work.

mst 18 hours ago 0 replies      
If you can find a psych/counselor that works for you, that's almost certainly a good idea - but when I hit a point of stress/burnout where I probably should have done that, I was also at the point where I was completely unable to actually make the call to set it up.

After six months of waffling back and forth stressing myself out even worse over the fact that I wasn't doing the obvious thing about it, I concluded that if I was going to manage to do it I'd've done it by now, looked for other options, and suddenly realised that Tianeptine is (a) entirely unscheduled and hence not actively illegal to posess in both the UK and US (b) easily mail orderable from Hong Kong.

Also Tianeptine is acute so if it works for you, you'll be able to tell by a few days in (three in my case). I've been deeply fond of it and far more productive since.

Note to anybody about to reply telling me that's a terrible idea for any of the obvious reasons it could be a terrible idea: Yes, I know, but I was incapable of doing any of the things I should have done to fix it and I had a company and team I was letting down and this worked for me. I am now slowly getting back to a point where I don't feel like I'm letting everybody down, and that's more important to me than pretty much anything else.

ryandrake 17 hours ago 0 replies      
> "The product is just too complicated (tons of domain knowledge required) for someone to come in and take over."

This statement is almost certainly not true. Anything can be learned by someone sufficiently motivated. You, yourself, were not born with the knowledge needed to run your company, were you?

> "Additionally, the product just isn't that interesting (glorified CRUD app) and it's been hard to retain developers."

People's motivations are different. Some people want to work on some super-interesting cutting edge product. Fine, you can't offer that, so forget them. Some people will do any job so long as they're rewarded with enough money. If you're about to get acquired, you may find you suddenly have the ability to hire these people. There are also tons of underemployed tech folks out there suffering away as "engineer number 7 from the left" who would love that rare chance to lead a project, move into product management, and/or finally have some ownership stake in what they're working on. They're probably super easy to find too. Just wait in the parking lot of any major tech employer at around 6:30-7:00PM and look for the people walking out the door with sad, exhausted faces :)

ljf 5 hours ago 0 replies      
vcool07 12 hours ago 0 replies      
Option 2 : Suck it up and work on improving the situation. Instead of throwing in the towel and going on a quest for self discovery, find ways to avoid stress. Take up yoga/gym classes or play some video games in between. Take your wife shopping, have quick power naps just google and see what works for you. You are not the first person to be in this situation, discuss with your peers on how they handle it and try to see if you can incorporate some of their good habits.

You're having a company which you started and which you say is profitable, don't throw away all that due to some temporary situation. Instead of running away, face it and see how you can improve on it !

enknamel 16 hours ago 0 replies      
I see many founders manage themselves out of their position. You hire a VP or Director to replace yourself in the day to day and then you transition out to the point where you can just go do whatever you want inside the company. Want to go back to being an individual contributor? Go for it! Want to just do skunkworks projects? Go for it!

There are many routes to happiness while maintaining your company.

yeukhon 16 hours ago 0 replies      
Hi I agree with a lot of the positive comments here. Take the money ASAP and go on a nice vacation. Do what you afterward. If I were ever a founder and sold off a company with a big check, I would go back to shool, get my master degree, and become an adjunct teaching. I enjoy that more than coding all day. So bite it, talk to your wife, see a therapist (I am depressed myself) and begin to offload your work to someone else. Remember many founders would leave after aqusitions probably felt the same as you ("they come in and want to take over a product I built")

It sounded like you are attached to your work and if so I understand because you were a co-founder. I am also very attached to my work but I am beginning to build up resistance. I just keep reminding myself if at some point I stop finding my job fun and enjoyful, then I need to find an exit, just like I would go home if I haven't slept for teo days.

Find and do the thing(s) you enjoy doing now. You wil be happier.

timwaagh 15 hours ago 0 replies      
two - five years isn't much if you're going to be rich. unhappiness is part of life. and when you get rich enough, just quit. because you will be able to.

if you're not going to be rich in any case then the answer is simple: you should quit. let it die. i know there is emotional investment, but there is no reason to continue to be unhappy. get another job you like better. assuming you need to get another job:

construction is not stress free. its not normal work, its labour. its risky. people develop physical problems. but yes i understand the appeal. diy'ing is fun. construction could be fun as well if you have the talent for it.

retail pays enough for kids, not adults with a house. so although it could be chill that is not really an option.

finally i recommend having some people around you to distract you from your worries. roommates. a loving wife. whatever you can get.

philip1209 18 hours ago 0 replies      
I agree with others that you should take some time off, talk to a professional, and try to fix things if possible. That being said . . .

I was in a similar position: last remaining founder having to pick between an acquihire where I'd be locked in to a job I didn't want, or pivot. I had cash in the bank, so I felt obligated to not stop. I talked to my investors, and they said "it's ok to shut down."

The thing to keep in mind is that early-stage investors don't care about 1x or 2x returns - they hope that one or two out of dozens of investments make enough money to return the portfolio.

For me: I chose to shut down [1] and travel for a bit. We open-sourced the code, which made clients happy. I kept my phone in "do not disturb" mode for a solid month after shutting down - it took awhile to decompress. (The shutdown process is still ongoing after 4 months, unfortunately). Feel free to email me if you want to chat.

[1] https://blog.staffjoy.com/staffjoy-is-shutting-down-39f7b5d6...

sharp_heat 15 hours ago 0 replies      
This is what happens when you do a startup that you're not truly passionate about. Thank you for this, for making me realize the very real risk of being trapped a few years in.
Jare 16 hours ago 0 replies      
Let me add my voice to those already suggesting a therapist. There are a number of options you can take for each of the many things that are piling up in your head and heart, but I believe the only one that is non-negotiable is this one. Let me describe one possible way this may work for you:

- It will feel weird to open up to a stranger, and in the very beginning it may ADD to your stress; you will find reasons to cancel the session. Don't.

- It will level up quickly and after a few sessions, you will likely start to see improvements. The sessions may still feel a burden, but by now you know you do not cancel or skip them.

- Don't expect your entire outlook and days to be wholesome better, you may still have crisis like you described - the important thing is that you will also have more moments of energy and positive thinking. Use those highs to prepare your mind and agenda for the lows.

Other thoughts that may help:

- Making yourself less necessary may not be tactically wise right before the acquisition, but rest assured, afterwards it WILL be. Under stress time may pass too slowly, but it does pass, and you will get there.

- One or two trusted and loving family members may offer excellent emotional support, without the day-to-day baggage that may have made you feel you needed to hide from your wife. They will love you no matter your mistakes and weaknesses.

- A good friend you can talk to that has no ties to anything else that worries you - no direct link to your work or family. They can offer an objective point of view and help you plan, strategize and clarify the situations you face. And their mere presence will remind you that you are not alone, that you are worthy by who you are and how you are.

- I can't tell you how to involve your wife in your current plight. Ideally she could be one or more of the above, but life is not perfect. If you don't feel you can fully do it, do what you can and figure it out (possibly with marriage counsel) after you are feeling better and with less weight on your shoulders.

- Find some activity, even if it is infrequent or short, that is yours and yours only, and absolutely enjoyable for you. A TV show, a hobby, gym, swimming, a game, writing. Keep your support group 100% in the loop so they can help you keep it at a healthy level (they ensure that you do it, but they don't let you escape into it and neglect your "real" life).

All the best.

fipar 14 hours ago 0 replies      
I'm sorry you're going through a bad time. Some things I can say:

- I think your wife needs to know. I have never taken a big decision like a job change without consulting my wife. We're in this together, and if I wanted to not have to share this decisions with someone else, I would have stayed single. Please don't take this as an attack, I am not judging you. I'm pretty sure you don't want her to know so you don't stress her, but you too are in this together, and there's no need for you to go through this problem alone.

- I think you may have a partial view of those jobs you mention. It's quite likely that a bagger at a grocery store does not suffer the stress you have at his or her job, but the pay is also much less, and the stress may come at other parts of life (for example, if that job forces him or her to live in a bad, dangerous neighborhood). Construction? working outside must be very hard in the middle of the winter or the summer, for example. I think it's good that you consider other options if being a founder is burning you out, but you don't need to go to the other extreme.

- You and your family are the ones to decide if quitting is a good option. Don't worry about the company in that case. You are entitled to pursue your own happiness, and people who work for startups (I know, I have) are or should be aware that failure is one of the options, usually the most likely one. So please don't feel like you need to put up with something that makes you supremely unhappy so that the company stays afloat.

So my summary is: Find what is best for you and your family, don't worry about the company if you really feel that unhappy, and if you do quit, if finances allow, take a short break and then don't go for the first thing that comes your way. You are smart enough to have started a company and getting it close to an acquisition. That's something I was never able to do, so I say 1) hats off to you, and 2) you won't have trouble finding a good job once you're ready to do that.

Good luck.

KirinDave 11 hours ago 0 replies      
I deliberately took a few steps back in my career after this last exit as well.

I've learned that being in charge is ... Sort of awful. I'd make many of the same decisions again, but I have regrets.

ingenuous2 11 hours ago 0 replies      
If you read this, I want to say, "it's OK". seriously.

I have depression episodes, had one while my company sold.

Today isn't tomorrow, tomorrow isn't yesterday. Accept how you feel and make the best decisions, holistically, that you can.

If that means letting your partners negotiate because you're unable to? In spite of you building much of the value? Then giving you a dime on your dollar of equity?

That's fine. Seriously. I went through that literal situation, and it was the most important thing I've ever experienced.

ivanjaros 5 hours ago 0 replies      
a) take a break, month or two if you need to and appoint someone that will handle your d2d business in the meantime.

b) exercise more. I cannot stress this one out more!!!

c) wait until the company is sold and move to a new project. Negotiate that you will be only an advisor(maybe only for the following year) and find someone else as ceo.

d) do not quit without selling out. All that time you have invested in this company will go to waste. So suck it up for now.

smt88 21 hours ago 0 replies      
I have a friend who buys boring SaaS and doesn't require any existing employees to stay on. Send me an email via my HN profile if you want me to put you in touch.
kcdev 10 hours ago 0 replies      
I'm not in your shoes, but I'd happily trade places. I assume you're calling most of the shots, so if you take a step back and reflect, where is this stress coming from? Who is putting pressure on you? I'm guessing it's you doing it to yourself because you hold yourself to a high standard and have a strong work ethic. Excellent qualities.

So take a few days off, refocus, slow down, and just do what you can do. No pressure.

robmcvey 8 hours ago 0 replies      
Are you in a position to discuss with your co-founders? If there's money in the company maybe they could buy you out based on the EBITDA of the existing offers, getting you out of the company sooner and not scuppering any deals on the table (which might take years to complete).
contingencies 15 hours ago 0 replies      
Execute on the LOIs pronto and get paid external help, preferably from the acquirers. If you say its urgent they should jump. It's in their interest.


1. Even if in the very worst case the result is a slightly lower price, that's way less important than your health.

2. Life balance is a real thing, burnout is a real thing, they cannot be ignored indefinitely.

3. You work hard and they obviously value you and your team's achievements, which means they also can relate to the situation.

4. Don't feel shameful in admitting your limits, we all have them.

5. Acquirers will work with you to hand over responsibilities in a way that works for your situation. Remember from their perspective that, since every acquisition is different, complexity of handover is actually normal and expected.

omarish 16 hours ago 0 replies      
> The product is just too complicated (tons of domain knowledge required) for someone to come in and take over.

Are you sure about this, beyond a reasonable doubt? Reading your post, this sounded to me like the kind of story I sometimes tell myself to boost my self-esteem when I feel like I'm in a bind.

If you are in fact irreplaceable, that means you're unique and one-of-a-kind. Feels good, doesn't it? Everything is hard, but at least you're valuable and unique.

At the same time, if you're actually replicable, that means you might not be as unique as you think you are in this situation, but fortunately by admitting that, you're on the way to solving the problem.

It sounds like you're in a generally good situation, and maybe there's someone smart and ambitious out there who would be willing to step up and help you make yourself redundant?

Good luck!

Baobei 15 hours ago 0 replies      
Consider to take a break for 2 weeks, rather than resigning, replacing yourself or talking to your wife. After 2 weeks you may feel less burnt out and see things more clearly. You can get medication (and I for one can confirm it does work) but ideally that's to get you out of the rut not a permanent solution. It's possible that your lack of passion for this idea, combined with how much time and dedication it takes is making you feel this way. Your mind/body doesn't understand the inherent contradiction. I'm married to my cofounder and it's hard to be honest when one is feeling weak, but hiding stuff damages your intimacy and closeness. Protect that, it's worth more than your company.
pwh 15 hours ago 0 replies      
I can't say that I know your pain, but I can sort of feel your pain. Simply because I've been there done that. Taking advice from HN, no matter how well meaning, may or may not help, it may even frustrate you more. Best thing to do is to step back. Find a way to clear your head. A long hike worked for me. Even washing dishes. You may have your own thing that works for you. Do that. Talk it out with someone you trust or who is willing to listen. You can talk with your wife later when you have your bearing back. Heck if you are in bay area and need a sounding board, you can ping me. Keep in mind though, the best answer probably will eventually come only from yourself.
romanovcode 5 hours ago 0 replies      
Why do you need to work there 2-5 more years if you're about to get acquired?

Why can't you cash in as soon as you are acquired and go pack bags in walmart?

netaustin 13 hours ago 0 replies      
Vacation aside, I have a tactical suggestion that could help quickly if you can afford it: Hire an assistant. You get two things from this pretty quickly: instant help with your petty day to day tasks to allow you to save your energy for the truly grinding chores that only you can do, plus a teammate who will be by your side as you fight through the next couple years.

I have a relatively stressful founder job and have recently been able to do this. Just having someone who's in my inbox, seeing the same demands I see, makes it much easier to get through each day.

retreatguru 11 hours ago 0 replies      
As a fellow founder my advice is to take a break - go on a retreat - yoga, meditation, ayahuasca, nature, etc.. Sounds like you are highly stressed. A break will give you some perspective. I bet those around you will understand and support a week or 10 day break.

Happiness mainly comes from appreciating what we have. When you are stressed and too close to the action it's easy to lose sight of all our blessings.

I'm happy to connect on a call and listen if you feel it would be helpful.

Mz 18 hours ago 0 replies      
Several comments here say, essentially, "talk to someone to help you deal with your feelings." All well fine and good, but I will suggest you try to find a sounding board. Feelings come from somewhere. While there can be value in venting to get that part out of the way, if all you do is vent and get emotional support but you don't do any problem solving, it is sort of like drinking or taking drugs to deal with your problems. It is just sort of this feel good experience that bleeds off the big feelings and that's about it. And then you still have to face all this crap anyway.

But a good sounding board can help you hammer out why things aren't working and what might be done about them. They won't make your decisions for you nor tell you what to do. A good sounding board listens a lot and comments a little and makes thought provoking comments. They do a bit of reframing. They give you some perspective.

It can be a huge sanity saver to have a good sounding board to run things past. This is much, much, much more valuable than a psychologist or crying on the shoulder of a friend or loved one. Sometimes friends or loved ones can play the role of sounding board, but that isn't guaranteed.

I don't know how you can find a good sounding board. But I think this would do more for you than talking just to vent about the stress. I agree that you need very much to talk with someone, but not just to blow off steam. You need to be able to go "AAAARGH!!!! The Whatsit is NOT fucking working AGAIN for the third fucking time this fucking week" and have someone say "So, with that much downtime, would it make sense to buy a second Whatsit? Would having two of them eliminate one of the major sources of stress in your life?" or even "So, explain to me what a Whatsit does. Why is this such an enormous source of stress for you?" and then in the course of explaining its role in the business, you have some epiphany about how things work and why you keep tripping over X, Y and Z issues.

akeating 13 hours ago 0 replies      
I wonder whether you know how to nurture leaders under you and how to delegate effectively? Many founders are relatively inexperienced and I understand this might not be the case for you. But if it sounds like something that resonates, consider reaching out to a mentor who can help with this. With an exit on the horizon, there's an end-game. It's likely the acquirer would anticipate you would leave anyway. You might start a dialog about building the skills of a replacement, you know, if you get hit by a bus, wink wink.
whistlerbrk 17 hours ago 0 replies      
Can you negotiate as part of the acquisition a sabbatical, frame it as you've been at it for so long that stepping away for a minute would help clear your mind and focus you on the road ahead with new better ideas.

Take like 6 weeks, hard travel and exercise, eat well, relax. Don't use email.

rubicon33 18 hours ago 0 replies      
I'm really quite curious - At such a pivotal stage in the entrepreneurship life, one where you're having more success than most, you're still unhappy?

If I were in your situation, feeling the way you feel at this moment, it would be an indicator that something is VERY wrong with my life. But if that were the case, it would have been wrong for a long time, and I would have just been ignoring it.

I can't help but wonder if that's what's going on here with you. At the Nth hour, on the precipice of outstanding success, you're peaking in unhappiness. The correlation is likely not a coincidence. It's an unhappiness in you that has been there for a long time, and the more you continue to ignore it, the more it will rob you of your life.

Find peace, my friend. It may mean enormous life changes.

robg 17 hours ago 0 replies      
The problem with stress is the physiology is fundamentally fight or flight. No surprise you are seeing flight, esp after several years of fight. You're also likely suffering from burnout (extensive, prolonged stress). The most important consideration is taking rest and recovery seriously, not on weekends, every day and throughout the day. Find moments to cherish, take walks outside, exercise more, get good sleep, quit using alcohol and start eating better. The brain is an organic computer, connected to every organ in the body and yours is running low on juice. You can't make good decisions right now, your brain is compromised by a health condition. Finding calm should be your priority toward inner peace.
Grustaf 17 hours ago 0 replies      
Since your company seems quite mature, it's got to be possible for you to find someone you can help run day to day. Even if you have to be there 80% in the start it's a win, and you can slowly ramp it down to say 20%.

The aqcuirint company probably don't expect you to be super passionate after their takeover, so they shouldn't object. Even if they do, the worst that could happen is probably that they knock off a chunk of your earnout package, you'll probably make much more than if you simply leave now.

If money is not the issue at all then you should definitely leave as soon as you can. There is absolutely no point in being miserable if it doesn't pay off big time. You already did something awesome, be proud of that and move on with good conscience!

focii_e 8 hours ago 0 replies      
Been there. One of the biggest mistakes I made was thinking people are indispensable, I was indispensable. I thought after I walked out of the door, the company would fall apart. Nope. A successful organization often has multiple roots for productivity and success. So here is the advice if you like, take a month long break. Have the cashflow taken care of, and ensure customers are treated well in your absence. Rest can be fixed if it falls apart. A month break and you will not only want to go back but will probably redefine where the organization should be in a few years. A month long breaks, that is all it takes.
hartator 15 hours ago 0 replies      
> I'd been mulling over a third option (hire someone to do my day-to-day)

Don't do this. It's the easiest way to be exited on not your conditions. From personal experiences. Just quit now on your conditions and name someone else as CEO. It always easier than it seems to gain domain knowledge. On a personal level, reading stoicism philosophers helped a lot too. If it's actually about your state of mind and not the job itself, that can trigger a switch to liking sucking it up if you decide to continue.

siliconc0w 13 hours ago 0 replies      
Take a vacation (even a short one) and maybe look into talking to a therapist. They can help you figure out where the clarity of your thought process may be caving a bit to the stress/anxiety of your job. I.e Working a wallmart isn't a stress free life. (Which isn't to say you shouldn't leave your job, it's just good to make that decision from a place of clarity rather than emotion).
_notme 21 hours ago 0 replies      
I feel your pain, I'm not a founder, but I also work in tech as a developer and sometimes wonder what it would be like to be a bartender or waiter. I have a friend who works as a waiter and always seems to be on vacation in some exotic part of the world. Makes me wonder how he can afford to do that and I can't?

I realised I needed to do 2 things:1/ Figure out what you REALLY want to do.2/ Figure out how your work life can support it. Is your work life not supporting it? Figure out what you need to change to make it get there.

For me, that meant switching jobs to something that allows remote work and unlimited vacation and organising my work day so that I can just put in 8-5 and leave work at the door.

Also, try taking an open-ended vacation. Don't make any plans, just get the time off and do what feels right.

paulajohnson 6 hours ago 0 replies      
I'm not a doctor, but it sounds to me like you may be suffering from clinical depression. You should talk to your doctor about this urgently.
morgante 15 hours ago 0 replies      
> - Suck it up and work on the same thing for 2-5 more years

Why do you assume you have to work on it for 2-5 more years?

It's pretty common for founders to quit within a year or two of an acquisition.

unabst 3 hours ago 0 replies      
To be honest, I think all founders are in some degree of pain. I mean, I say that hoping it will make you feel a little better, but it certainly won't solve any of your problems. For me, knowing I can quit whenever I want helps. I mean, I would literally quit and move on if things got too bad. There are plenty of opportunities. But as it turns out, either my pain tolerance is pretty high, or it's never gotten bad enough -- probably out of sheer luck.

To me, your situation is straight forward. This is what you're missing. Well, two things.

#1. You are burning out. Pretty standard, frankly. And anything could cause it. For some it's the mid-life crisis. For some it could even be diet. My mother took pills that caused night terrors. They stopped when she changed medication. The typical entrepreneurial cause would be "lost your passion". That thing that got you motivated before you went to work is no longer there. Your entrepreneurial mojo is gone. But of course, that makes for a good narrative, but in reality it could be anything. Even just plain fatigue.

#2. I'm not sure how conscious entrepreneurs and founders are of this, but if you're a fan of first principles, you should be a fan of this one.

An entrepreneur is someone that creates jobs. Though we can define it many ways, ultimately the core competence of an entrepreneur is in their ability to grow a company beyond just themselves, and... move on.

So a successful entrepreneur is either serial - moves on from startup to startup, or is monolithic - they build one business but with multiple departments under one umbrella (a la Amazon or Microsoft or Apple, but head count still keeps growing).

So #2 is your third option. This is what you need to do.

> don't know how to make it work

Figure this out, just like you did everything else.

> The product is just too complicated (tons of domain knowledge required) for someone to come in and take over

Simplify and document until you're out of paper, then train someone.

> isn't that interesting

Doesn't matter. Money is interesting. If they're being paid for work they agreed to do, it's just a matter of finding a professional worker.

The thing about your third option is, at least to me, it's the obvious final step. If you're looking to get acquired successfully, then you are looking to be replaced, no? And the hurdles for your third option are exactly what would turn off anyone looking to take over. So for your own sake, and for the incoming new boss, you need to continue on with your third option.

Anyway, hope that helps!

amelius 3 hours ago 0 replies      
So what is your analysis of how you got into this situation?
x0ner 12 hours ago 0 replies      
Talk to your co-founder if you have one. If not, your wife is she's understanding. Having sold a company, it's one of the hardest processes to go through. It's not clear if your pain is from multiple years or the sale though. That clarification would help in the advice you get
graphememes 18 hours ago 0 replies      
I'll take it over for you, I'm tired of being in a position where you make suggestions and it's only realized two to three years later thats the path that should be taken anyway.
postwait 17 hours ago 0 replies      
Find a group of fellow founders that you can talk with. Even if it is just one or two. As a founder, I can relate to the stress and suffering. Sharing can make all the difference.
reilly3000 10 hours ago 0 replies      
I was there. Didn't take the deal. Ended up filing chapter 7. That really sucked. Life moves on, it really does. Try to know what your heart is really trying to say before you say no or yes.
AmIFirstToThink 17 hours ago 0 replies      
May be you don't need superstar developers.

Someone appreciative of a paycheck that barely gets assigned tasks done is fine. Hire non-comp-science interns and build their careers. see them buy their first car, first rental place, go there with a wine and eat their burgers. It's good seeing people happy, providing them a career and paycheck. Their smiles, their families smiles will make it all worth it.

losteverything 17 hours ago 0 replies      
I hope you get better.

I work at that hated huge retailer and you would have to learn to smile before we hired you. Depressed people show through and lower our Friendly scores.

Personnel at my store are very leary of hiring just anybody and having a mondo career -> Walmart has to be explained.

I do work with 2nd career elders. Several just work to be among live people. It really is enjoyable.

All the best but hold off on walmart.com/careers

babyrainbow 12 hours ago 0 replies      
>It seems so stress free.

Try it.

Or talk to someone who works at walmart, or a bagger at a grocery store. See if they would like to be in your shoes. Might help put things in perspective, and it seems to be that just a change in perspective is all you need..

rodrigosetti 11 hours ago 0 replies      
Try to find a motivation to get thru this - think about the good that you can make it to your employees as you lead them through the acquisition. This might help you to gain some more time to think about your options
zecg 8 hours ago 0 replies      
Working at Wal Mart or in construction is stress free? Try it for a few years and for full effect, try living on those wages.
NicoJuicy 17 hours ago 0 replies      
Go to your wife and talk to her. Plan a vacation and depending profitability, check to shift some responsabilities to someone else.

Why is it hard to retain developers? It would definately be easier to retain developers to ease your burden. ( that's a problem where $$$ can easily be thrown at, if it's possible off course)

PS. For some (busy) people, doing sport actually helps a lot

newera2016 18 hours ago 1 reply      
I am in a similar situation other than the fact that I don't have acquisition offer and startup is not making much money even not able to pay my own expense. I have lots of customers though and working on it for more than 3 years. Feeling depressed every day and try to ask the question "what to do?". However, I have people who are managing that well.
23david 19 hours ago 0 replies      
I can relate... I'm not sure it helps, but what you're going through is not uncommon for startup founders.

I know someone who just came out of a job where he was hired to take over most of the day-to-day for a founder in a similar situation. It might be useful to discuss the situation and see what recommendations he has. Feel free to connect via Linkedin and I can put you in touch.

radley 16 hours ago 0 replies      
Sounds like you may want to take a sabbatical, which usually lasts 1-12 months and can be flexible. I suggest making it part of your acquisition arrangements.

Many professionals need a timeout to reset. Often they return to their current / new role refreshed, but sometimes they decide it's time to move on.

Dat Distributed Dataset Synchronization and Versioning github.com
205 points by ColinWright  19 hours ago   31 comments top 6
pfraze 18 hours ago 1 reply      
We use Dat in Beaker[1] to host sites and files from the user's device. It's a pretty interesting protocol. It's developed by Code for Science[2], a 501(c)(3) led by Max Ogden[3] and with protocol dev led by Mafintosh[4]; their mission is to help with archival of science and civic data.

Some interesting properties:

1. It uses a BitTorrent-style of swarm, but primarily to sync signed append-only logs, which are in fact flattened Merkle Trees (similar to Certificate Transparency). The Dat archives are addressed by public keys. The tree is used to enforce the append-only constraint by making it easy to detect if the history has been changed by the author.

2. The "Secret Sharing" feature. The public key of a Dat archive is hashed before querying or announcing on the discovery network, and then the traffic is encrypted using the public key as a symmetric key. This has the effect of hiding the content from the network, and thus making the public key of a Dat a "read capability": you have to know the key to access its files.

There's a reference implementation in JS available at https://github.com/datproject/dat-node, and a fair number of tools being built around it.

1 https://beakerbrowser.com/

2 https://datproject.org/

3 https://twitter.com/denormalize

4 https://twitter.com/mafintosh

rspeer 12 hours ago 4 replies      
As someone who creates open, medium-sized, reusable datasets, is Dat something I should try? Is it too early? The linked page is very much about technical details of the implementation and not about how one would typically use it.

I maintain ConceptNet [1], a multilingual knowledge graph. I do everything I can to make its published results reproducible. The biggest hurdle for people reproducing it has always been getting the data -- building it requires about 100 GB of raw data or 15 GB of computed data that can be imported into PostgreSQL.

I once tried git-annex. It turned out not to be a good choice -- its tools were flaky, its usage patterns confusing, it leaves a permanent record of your mistakes in configuring data sources, and it was very hard to convince to use ordinary HTTP downloads instead of trying to get read-write access to S3 (which wouldn't work for anyone but me). Now I have weird branches and remotes in my repositories, and weird data in my S3 buckets, that I can't get rid of in case someone tries to use git-annex in a way I told them would work.

After that I just went with distributing the data with plain HTTP downloads from S3. I wish I could do better than this. The only semblance of versioning is putting the date in the URL, and also people in Asia tell me that the build fails because their downloads from us-east-1 get interrupted. Oh, and if I ever stop paying for S3, everything will break.

If I tried making data reproducible with Dat, would it be safe to promise people that they could use Dat to get the data? Even if in the future I don't like Dat anymore?

For instance, do I have to commit to hosting the data somewhere? If not, who does? Does it disappear when people lose interest, like BitTorrent?

[1] http://conceptnet.io

skybrian 12 hours ago 1 reply      
It seems like Dat has some usability quirks that might take some getting used to:

- You can publish new versions to a URL until you somehow forget the private key, and then it's fixed forever, so long as people hang onto copies.

- There's nothing to prevent people from passing around a URL with a version in it. So, although it looks like the author has some control, this is an illusion; publishing is irrevocable and anything published could go viral. (This is generally true of making copies, but it's the opposite of Snapchat.)

- Suppose someone chooses to publish a private key? Is it a world-writable URL? Hmm.

nwmcsween 17 hours ago 2 replies      
Wasn't dat originally going to be a part of ipfs or was it the browser? What are the reasons for dat vs ipfs?
draw_down 16 hours ago 0 replies      
Max Ogden and Mafintosh are incredibly talented and productive. Awe-inspiring to see the things they make.
fiatjaf 15 hours ago 0 replies      
Nice, are you sure they aren't going to change the protocol to something totally new and with radically different features in maybe two months.
Jacque Fresco has died nytimes.com
90 points by sajid  4 hours ago   68 comments top 19
cryodesign 12 minutes ago 0 replies      

Gene Roddenberry was inspired by Fresco's ideas. A world where people could focus on personal development and nobody would have to be in this rat race anymore, enabling a higher standard of living for all people.

Jacque was a great visionary, inventor and systems thinker - he will be missed.

You should watch his documentary Future by Design [0]. He was talking about 3D printed houses, holistic transportation systems, smart cities, etc

[0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I1IXWnS6vwk

rodolphoarruda 3 hours ago 2 replies      
I remember when I watched the Zeitgeist documentaries and had my first contact with this 'resource based" society. Weeks later I had dinner with a friend who was a director in a Spanish consulting firm specialized in the banking sector. I tried to impress him with what I had seen in the documentary. In the end, it was like having an atheist trying to convince the pope about his convictions.
swalsh 2 hours ago 1 reply      
I think as a whole his vision is little too "non organic". I don't think society can be planned to the degree he wished. However disassembled there were some solid ideas, many of which are becoming realities today. He represents one of my favorite parts of the 50's and 60's. Which struck me as a time where people imagined that it was totally possible to just upend society, and rebuild it in a better way. The level of optimism where if you can accomplish only 20% of the vision, you've done something significant.
jhbadger 2 hours ago 0 replies      
He always reminded me of fellow utopian Paolo Soleri (who died in 2013) -- even though their ideas were impractical (at least in the short term), we really need dreamers like them to make people question whether current society is really as good as we can hope for.
uranian 2 hours ago 0 replies      
This is a true loss for the world. Although his revolutionary ideas were IMHO by times a little over the edge, he envisioned and fought for a world without poverty and war, where earth's resources are not being depleted by hunger for money and power; A resource based economy.

Thank you Jaques Fresco for opening my eyes to this and RIP.

btg_1987 2 hours ago 0 replies      
I remember speaking with Jacque in Miami at one of his lectures. He was a very honest and sincere man (but not to the point of trying to demean you to get his point across).

He will be missed.

Roxanne Meadows penned a lovely open letter concerning this: https://www.thevenusproject.com/

Their vision and ideology is an interesting one, but may take a few hundred years before viable for implementation. Too many growing pains still involved in earth culture.

davexunit 2 hours ago 0 replies      
The world could use a few more Jacque Frescos.
barrkel 2 hours ago 1 reply      
"if property rights were respected by all, humanity would become fantastically wealthy."

This comment by Robert Murphy is a weird non sequitur apropos of not much in the article. If property rights are respected by all, some small fraction of humanity will indeed become fantastically wealthy, but the vast majority would be on the tail end of a very thinly tailed distribution as humans become worthless for production - leading to quite a bit of aggregate unhappiness.

bikamonki 2 hours ago 0 replies      
Marginal unit cost of production moving closer to zero, the sharing economy, AI replacing human labor, descentralized crypto-currencies, universal minimun income, autonomous transportation, clean energy, space travel.

Fresco was right on the mark.

RIP wise man.

sebastianconcpt 2 hours ago 3 replies      
RIP Fresco. I really like him and his work. But I never understood why he was convinced about the Resource Based Economy. Shouldn't a RBE have the exact same problems as any Central Planned economy? Wasn't this refuted in 1920 by Mises? https://mises.org/sites/default/files/Economic%20Calculation...
igor_filippov 2 hours ago 1 reply      
I've met his followers in Berlin once, "naive" - the best word I can find to describe them. In the end, they struggled to answer the core question: "Why would anyone take seriously a man, who can't prove his idea in a lean way?". Please, build a city where everyone is happy and everything is handled by the machines, show the rest of the world you're right! Reminds me of wantrepreneurs who can't scrape together 10k to build an MVP for their startup idea. If you can't find money to build a prototype, then no sane investor should trust you.
enterx 4 hours ago 0 replies      
RIP Fresco.
EGreg 1 hour ago 0 replies      
Far more interesting (to me) than a specific Venus project concept art was Jacques Fresco interviews and stories about his life. I once sent them to Noam Chomsky to listen as a fellow elderly guy and child of the Depression from a different perspective.


ue_ 21 minutes ago 0 replies      
When I was about 14 or 15 my first exposure to different schools of social organisation was Fresco, I found him through the Zeitgeist documentary (which I was foolish enough to believe in conspiracies with). I then looked at the Venus project and various of his videos and interviews on Youtube. He seemed like a great man, and although I think his ideas didn't put much into action, I really admired them. For the past 8 years or so he had passed out of my mind, I barely thought of the Venus Project, and it was surprising and saddening to read this news.

RIP Fresco.

wawka13 2 hours ago 1 reply      
The truly big loss for the whole world. RIP, Fresco. Also, if someone needs an essay or paper about him - fill free to visit it at https://handmadewritings.com
wavefunction 3 hours ago 2 replies      
>>Robert Murphy, an associate scholar at the Mises Institute, which promotes the teaching of Austrian economics, wrote in 2010 that idealists like Mr. Fresco were wrong to blame our current dysfunctional world on capitalism or money per se. Instead, Mr. Murphy wrote, if property rights were respected by all, humanity would become fantastically wealthy.

I read this sort of claim by the 'serious and sober' and realize they're even more gassed up than the 'idealists.'

partycoder 3 hours ago 2 replies      
While Mr. Fresco idea seems very reasonable, I think his mistake is attributing altruistic traits to everyone. Not everyone is altruistic. If there's a computer system governing everything, there will be a strong incentive to build bias into it, or use for mass surveillance or even tyranny. Then, there are aspects in which radial cities would not be good:

- Epidemiology: you have everyone in this nice dome sharing objects. But one of them has a serious infectious disease. Now the entire population is at risk.

- Defense: An adversarial force including but not limited to extremists would just target the center dome, a place accessible by everyone.

You could argue that everyone would have what they need because of this egalitarian system, and there would be no violence. But take a look at communist countries and see what happens in practice.

However, it is true though that we are very inefficient and wasteful in terms of how resources are used.

boona 1 hour ago 1 reply      
I think society values good intention way too much. This man fought his entire life for what amounts to Marxism with robots. His intentions may have been good, his heart in the right place, but his ideas were bad, and if implemented, they would be disastrous.

If we judge him by his intentions, he was a good man. If we judge him by what he wished upon the world, he was a horrible human being. Though we should keep good intentions in mind, I strongly believe that we should also judge the outcome of what people are proposing.

boona 1 hour ago 4 replies      
You mean someone who understands the complexities of the markets and the financial system wasn't convinced by Marxism with robots? I can't imagine why.
Chrome Won andreasgal.com
397 points by fabrice_d  16 hours ago   425 comments top 7
gkoberger 15 hours ago 13 replies      
I agree with this blog post. But I don't think Mozilla lost.

I worked for Mozilla for a few years, after seeing John Lily (CEO at the time) speak. It was right after Chrome started getting popular, and a smug person in the crowd asked him about how he felt about Chrome.

John's response was awesome. "This is the web that we wanted. We exist not because we want everyone to use Firefox, but because we wanted people to have a choice" Firefox was a response to a world of "best viewed in IE" badges, and it changed the browser landscape.

Now, we have options. Chrome is great, but so are Safari, Edge, Brave, Opera and Firefox. There's a lot of options out there, and they're all standards compliment. And that's thanks to Mozilla.

So, in my mind, Mozilla won. It's a non-profit, and it forced us into an open web. We got the world they wanted. Maybe the world is a bit Chrome-heavy currently, but at least it's a standards compliment world.

I hope Mozilla sees that. I hope they take credit, and move on to what's next: privacy and net neutrality. Our privacy is under attack, and Mozilla is one of the few companies that can (and would want to) help. I know, I know. Nobody cares about privacy. Nobody cared about web standards, either, but Mozilla bundled it into an attractive package and it worked. It's time for Mozilla to declare victory, high five the Chrome team, and move on to the next big challenge.

We really need someone to fight for our privacy and neutrality. And I really believe that this could be Mozilla's swan song.


EDIT: Hey cbeard - My email is in my profile; I'd love to talk.

cies 15 hours ago 7 replies      
So Mozilla lost Firefox OS. And their browser share is smaller then Chrome, and then it was, but still top tier and winning from M$.

I'm much less pessimistic.

Besides a cross platform and extensible browser we see also the following coming out of Mozilla:

* Rust, a modern low-level programming language with cutting edge "safety" build in at zero runt time cost, luring many system programmers.

* Servo, tomorrow browser, from scratch, in Rust.

* Thunderbird, x-platform desktop email client (interesting for those not trusting the cloud enough).

* MDN, everything MSDN and w3school wish they could be. :)

A lot with revolve around privacy and safety in the future, a space that Mozilla is very well positioned to florish in.

Chrome is a good product. But I prefer Firefox. And seeing what is becoming of Servo I will soon start using that. Form me Firefox has won, and is not at all losing. I dont need the "most popular" browser, I need the most secure one.

And when I see what programming languages Google came up with... (Seriously? Is Go the best money can buy?) Then I think Rust shows single handedly that Mozilla beats Google in that arena as well.

JoshMnem 12 hours ago 6 replies      
Firefox took marketshare from IE when that was impossible. It could do it again with Chrome, if things change a bit.

Some problems with Mozilla are that they don't do community management well any more. In the old days, there were amazing grassroots-driven projects like spreadfirefox.com. It is not like that any more. Grassroots supporters have trouble participating, even if they try.

For example, I tried to create a Firefox programmers' meetup group in Berkeley, and even though some community people from Mozilla joined the group, no one from Mozilla would reply to my inquiries. (I still would like to restart that idea, but I don't have time to chase them down. We have 4,000 members in our various meetup groups at the moment.)

Another problem is that they are doing things that make their most-dedicated core users lose interest. They should have realized the incredible enthusiasm for Firefox that plugins like Pentadactyl were creating. They're killing off the API that it depends on. Instead, they should have funded the development of Pentadactyl and made it a reason why tech-savvy users choose Firefox. Tech-savvy users drive adoption, but they have abandoned many of their tech-savvy supporters.

There is still hope for Firefox if they are able to get the messages about privacy across. Chrome is slower to use out of the box, partially because of the auto-completion algorithm that tends to send people to Google Search to click on ads before reaching their destination. The older Firefox search box didn't waste users' time like that. (Recently it changed so that it shows titles rather than URLs, which is also slow, because there is an extra security risk of going to phishing sites, if you don't stop to look at the URLs.)

Also, Firefox is the only mobile browser that allows add-ons, so that's another benefit that they should be promoting.

threepipeproblm 3 hours ago 0 replies      
When you get a new long distance plan, do you worry if the plan you picked isn't the most popular plan? Do you decide it means you got a 'loser plan'? Me neither.

To me, this article was written from the perspective of a zero sum game mentality. The author clearly wanted to be #1. Does this mean Firefox is failing? I think the evidence is lacking there. And all the guy really offers as evidence is, "From these graphs its pretty clear that Firefox is not going anywhere." But Firefox market share was going up at some point... by the same standard, why wasn't that valuable evidence that Firefox would take over everything? As an explanation, it's devoid.

The article would more sense if it were critical to Mozilla's mission that Firefox have a dominant market share. But 18% of desktop installs is far more than sufficient to influence standards (recent studies show that as little of 3-5% of a market can basically set standards).

IMO Mozilla should just focus on a browser that 10-30% of users -- especially 'influencers' and those who care about digital freedom -- love, and consider that success.

aerovistae 15 hours ago 9 replies      
> I started Firefox OS in 2011 because already back then I was convinced that desktops and browsers were dead. Not immediatelyhere we are 6 years later and both are still aroundbut both are legacy technologies that are not particularly influential going forward.

I don't understand this perspective. Browsers are legacy technologies that are not particularly influential? What?

I feel like the web dominates our lives more than ever, and everyone uses a laptop or desktop for any actual work they have to do, professional or hobby. While people use their phones for internet access throughout the day as they move about, it must be one in 1000 or fewer who uses their phone or tablet for real work.

Does someone see a replacement on the horizon for the supposedly "legacy" laptop/desktop power combo?

joemi 30 minutes ago 1 reply      
Without starting any holy war arguments, why is Chrome adoption so high?

On the Windows machines at work, I use both Firefox and Chrome all day long for customer support and light web development. They're both pretty interchangeable for me, neither really being any better than the other. Since such high adoption of Chrome means the general public are using it, not just the more tech-saavy people like us, I doubt the reason is any deep developer niceties. So I don't really know why...

Mathnerd314 15 hours ago 3 replies      
> exponential trend

They're market shares & hence bounded by 0 and 1, so exponential seems pretty unrealistic. The logistic curve is a better starting point: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logistic_function#In_economics...

802.eleventy what? A deep dive into why Wi-Fi kind of sucks arstechnica.co.uk
16 points by adunk  3 hours ago   3 comments top 2
JPLeRouzic 2 hours ago 1 reply      
I dropped out ouf the 802.11 business a few years ago but it seems I am still relevant, after all the article is about 802.11ac, not something about 802.11ax.On the technical side I agree with most of what the author says, but it is only a part of the larger picture.

-First I did my own tests of 802.11ac in 2014 and the manufacturers were correct in their claims at that time. You have to understand that the best speed is when you are in ideal radio conditions and simply you are never in ideal conditions and most of the time you are even far from the ideal case.

- Second, 802.11 sucks but not about raw speed, the MAC layer of most chip implementations is often ultra simplified and the outcome is that it is difficult to be authentified. This is strange as the Wi-Fi chip most often is a little computer and the MAC is implemented in software.

- Third, there are unreasonable economic expectations by users as well as the article's author: Wait you want gigabit speeds, ultra-reliability in challenging radio conditions, and that at a tenth of the cost of a 3G mobile radio?

- Fourth: Your phone has more hard time to cope with that throughput, than the Wi-Fi chip has. Android and Linux in general have many internal buffers because there are layers in charge of different features. The usable throughput is the raw radio throughput divided by the number of buffers. There are research OSes which use pointers instead of buffers, but Linux and Windows use buffers.

runn1ng 12 minutes ago 0 replies      
Twilio Functions Public Beta twilio.com
251 points by tcsf  20 hours ago   84 comments top 15
revicon 18 hours ago 3 replies      
It's definitely using AWS Lamba, I spun up a trial account and texted myself the output of JSON.stringify(process.env)...

Edit: adding linebreaks...

2nd edit: Realized there were AWS access tokens in there. It's probably not a good idea for those to be exposed to the environment they're running this user generated code in. They should probably be wrapping these in vm.runInNewContext()

 { "PATH":"/var/lang/bin:/usr/local/bin:/usr/bin/:/bin", "LANG":"en_US.UTF-8", "TZ":":/etc/localtime", "LD_LIBRARY_PATH":"/var/lang/lib:/lib64:/usr/lib64:/var/runtime:/var/runtime/lib:/var/task:/var/task/lib", "LAMBDA_TASK_ROOT":"/var/task", "LAMBDA_RUNTIME_DIR":"/var/runtime", "AWS_REGION":"us-east-1", "AWS_DEFAULT_REGION":"us-east-1", "AWS_LAMBDA_LOG_GROUP_NAME":"/aws/lambda/ZDfb2ab7cd7ac1734d9a1a06a018a1c522", "AWS_LAMBDA_LOG_STREAM_NAME":"2017/05/25/[$LATEST]2d7b70d5a6914e3980f081ba96c9d4ab", "AWS_LAMBDA_FUNCTION_NAME":"ZDfb2ab7cd7ac1734d9a1a06a018a1c522", "AWS_LAMBDA_FUNCTION_MEMORY_SIZE":"512", "AWS_LAMBDA_FUNCTION_VERSION":"$LATEST", "_AWS_XRAY_DAEMON_ADDRESS":"", "_AWS_XRAY_DAEMON_PORT":"2000", "AWS_XRAY_DAEMON_ADDRESS":"", "AWS_XRAY_CONTEXT_MISSING":"LOG_ERROR", "_X_AMZN_TRACE_ID":"Root=1-59274f44-71756c3273bfaf4895cd5610;Parent=4126596e259f5d9f;Sampled=0", "AWS_EXECUTION_ENV":"AWS_Lambda_nodejs6.10", "_HANDLER":"enigma.handler", "NODE_PATH":"/var/runtime:/var/task:/var/runtime/node_modules", "AWS_ACCESS_KEY_ID":"REMOVINGTHIS", "AWS_SECRET_ACCESS_KEY":"ALSOREMOVINGTHIS", "AWS_SESSION_TOKEN":"REMOVINGTHISTOO" }

keithwhor 19 hours ago 1 reply      
Awesome play by Twilio. We've been working on StdLib [1] and an open specification for FaaS execution [2] for a while now, and demos with Twilio (sending text messages after automatically validating parameters, hooking into other functions in our ecosystem) have really helped developers grok what's possible. (We have a built-in SMS utility that actually uses Twilio behind the scenes [3]).

Happy to see we've come to the same conclusions about utility independently :).

[1] https://stdlib.com/

[2] https://github.com/faaslang/faaslang/

[3] https://stdlib.com/utils/sms

rsync 12 hours ago 1 reply      
I am a (happy) twilio customer and I do not understand this:

"Today, were excited to announce Twilio Functions, a serverless environment to build and run Twilio applications so you can get to production faster."

I did just that ... I signed up for twilio, wrote a simple twiML[1] inside their web editor, and attached it to a phone number.

No servers were involved (I am not sure how I could involve a server) and I "got to production" very fast.

What would I do differently now ?

[1] "Ring Forever"

rockmeamedee 18 hours ago 1 reply      
Interesting. Thinking out loud here, are Functions a new opening for Saas businesses? (tldr no).

If you have a big enough user base/set of use cases, the next step after opening an API to your service might be adding a Baas/Faas, so people with small use cases or prototypes can get started easily without using a server.

But it's not like Linkedin or Zenefits users would get more value out of "Linkedin Functions". It probably makes more sense if you can "eat" what would have been a separate (micro)service.

The one thing I don't see though, is if somebody is sold enough on Faas, why would they use your siloed Twilio Faas instead of AWS Lambda/whatever where you can interact with Twilio _and_ eg Shopify, Instagram, other APIs...

Maybe then an interesting idea for the big FaaS providers duking it out for market share right now might be an ability for SaaS providers to build "$YOUR_SAAS Functions" on top of their offering.The end-user would see Lambda/Function/whatever templates pre-filled with the right API calls an a UI for choosing the different API-related triggers. This could be like the AWS marketplace, but for Faas.

So I guess the answer to my clickbait-ey question at the top is mostly likely no, but maybe, let's see it play out. It definitely feels like a good way to sell more API usage.

foolfoolz 18 hours ago 2 replies      
good amount of comments here missing how hard it is for "normal" people to use twilio. the article is clear: twilio's many interface to your code is a callback URL. think about what it takes to have a callback URL you can input to the twilio website.

could they really set up an AWS account, lambda function, IAM role, API gateway, with cloud watch logs? ive done this in AWS. you have to use 5+ AWS services that have funny names and look nothing alike, and make them all work together.

or lets say you wanted to buy a domain, hosting for it, and put your code on there for twilio to hit with a callback URL. thats hard too.

if you are going to do either of the 2 approaches above, how many hours are you going to spend getting the callback URL foundation set up (and working) before you even get to use a twilio product?

bryanh 16 hours ago 0 replies      
This is very similar to what we've done to bootstrap the Zapier CLI and developer platform -- especially relative to repurposing AWS Lambda.

Wrote a bit of behind the scenes just the other day https://zapier.com/engineering/behind-the-cli/ if this sort of stuff tickles your fancy.

CJKinni 20 hours ago 2 replies      
I've loved being able to hack away on projects with Twilio for a while now. They're relatively easy to get started with, and this is going to make it even easier. 10,000 invocations free, with subsequent invocations priced at 10,000/$1 seems like a great model. No idea about how this scales financially, compared to other similar services. But as someone making relatively limited use tools, most without a business model, their pricing certainly keeps me feeling great about using them.
hacknat 17 hours ago 0 replies      
I was already doing this with their API on Lambda. If anybody is interested:https://github.com/nathanjsweet/narthan

Good on them for integrating it.

fpgaminer 17 hours ago 1 reply      
Is there some way to create an SMS based service using Twilio, and charge users? Like, the user gets charged on their phone bill and I, the service owner, get paid by Twilio or something.

Or is that just not a thing and it has to be done OOB?

pw 19 hours ago 4 replies      
I wonder if this is an independent effort or if it's built on top of AWS Lambda.

Also, anyone know why all these serverless environments that are coming out focus on Node.js?

fiatjaf 15 hours ago 4 replies      
Who are these people writing SMS apps? Why is Twilio so proeminent when no one uses SMS anymore?
sagivo 18 hours ago 0 replies      
I love the new popularity of lambda/functions as a service. each provider can now give you a custom code to do whatever you like, stripping away the needs for servers and that what i can really see as a full "micro-service"
sparrish 20 hours ago 2 replies      
Other providers like Tropo have had this hosted scripting for years. Nice to see Twilio catching up.
ryanar 18 hours ago 4 replies      
I wish Twilio had free offerings for their other services. I didnt even dare playing around testing Twilio because I would be getting charged 2 cents per SMS sent
jknoepfler 20 hours ago 4 replies      
The success of this product is dependent on torpedoing aws lambda from a usability and reliability perspective imo (not hard). After using twilio to build the sms side off of an app I've been quietly rooting for them (and betting on them actively)

If they built this ON lambda then I'd bet against it very strongly, but I can't imagine smart engineers doing that in 2017 (ha...)

Safety incidents at Tesla plant were higher than industry average in 2015 latimes.com
92 points by JumpCrisscross  15 hours ago   94 comments top 19
AKifer 5 hours ago 0 replies      
The title itself uses a basic framing technique intentionally written to fool you into a false conclusion.

1- "worse than slaughterhouses and sawmills" is more catchy than "better than X" (chose any X automaker)2- Is the safety level of a slaughterhouses or a sawmill comparable to a car's ? They are things not in the same category, with different sophistication level and different purpose, how many times a day an average person will enter a slaughterhouse or a sawmill ?

theprop 8 hours ago 2 replies      
"The scores dont account for severity, however. The injuries at Tesla appear to be related to long hours and ergonomic design."

Not to say that any harm to your health should be avoided, but by auto industry standards (other than Tesla) to this day serious incidents involve losing limbs or death. I know they're pushing everyone at Tesla as the company is still losing a lot amount of money, but it's not clear that anyone being pushed is taking really serious risks -- at other auto companies, they are and the result is literally loss of limb and life. Moreover their loss is for "greedy capitalists" as the workers earn very little, have incentives to take risks, are not trained appropriately, and traditional car companies are quite profitable unlike Tesla.

The photos in the recent Businessweek coverage of auto industry safety of people missing limbs are horrible (Tesla was not mentioned therein btw).


gr2020 15 hours ago 3 replies      
Title here is misleading. Actual title of article at LA Times is "Tesla had worse safety records than slaughterhouses and sawmills" - note "had", past tense. The records in question are from 2015, and as the article says, they are working on improvements.
ahannigan 3 hours ago 3 replies      
Even the new title, "Safety incidents at Tesla plant were higher than industry average in 2015".

Who cares? The very definition of "industry average" means that someone in the industry will be above or below the average. Why would I want to read about that? Why pick on Tesla? because they're popular?

6stringmerc 24 minutes ago 0 replies      
Prior submission, link to PDF report:


c3534l 14 hours ago 3 replies      
> Tesla did not dispute the numbers.

> we now have the lowest injury rate in the industry by far

This article seems to be misleading readers into thinking that Tesla has unsafe working conditions, despite being the best in the industry.

simonh 8 hours ago 1 reply      
Shocking revelation reveals that up to half of car makers have below average safety records!

Edit - I know safety is a serious matter, but it does look like this is a historical issue that Tesla takes seriously and has under control.

nicolashahn 15 hours ago 1 reply      
Is the average auto company's safety record worse than slaughterhouses and sawmills?
the_duke 9 hours ago 2 replies      
There have been numerous articles over the last few weeks, all in the same vain.

And all with very click-baity negative headlines and articles that don't exactly seem like neutral reporting of an issue.

I'd bet that there is some PR firm trying to drum up anti Tesla sentiments.

(I'm not saying that there wasn't or isn't an issue at Tesla factories, but the kind of reporting stinks like PR campaign).

leemailll 15 hours ago 4 replies      
>Charley Briese said his job involved pulling down a hanging drill three times a minute for 12 to 16 hours a day, causing severe tendinitis

12-16 hrs a day?

Overtonwindow 14 hours ago 0 replies      
I think the key point here is Musk is moving as quickly as he can towards automatic and robots. Unionization will only push him to do that harder, speeding up until humans are factored out of the equation along with their jobs.
PhasmaFelis 9 hours ago 0 replies      
I made a spreadsheet out of the PDF of injury rates by industry, which is much easier to sort and compare. Google removed the indentation I had added from the original, but it should be clear enough; the number of digits in the NAICS code is the indent level. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1LKE00PJDDE_ZnDb1Slpq...

For the record, in 2016, the injury rate per 1000 workers for "automobile manufacturing" as a whole was 6.7; "Animal (except poultry) slaughtering" was 7.2; "Sawmills" 7.3; Tesla's was 8.1, on a level with "psychiatric and substance abuse hospitals", just above "heavy and civil engineering construction", and just below "correctional institutions", to name a few. Tesla claims they're down to 4.6 in 1st quarter 2017, but of course we only have their word for that.

The document further breaks out cases with days away from work, restrictions, or transfers (DART). That's 3.9 for the auto industry in general, 4.9 for non-poultry slaughtering, 3.9 for sawmills, and 7.3 for Tesla (from the WorkSafe report linked in the article).

So it sounds like there may actually be something to this. Weird that they decided to go with clickbait instead of just presenting the data.

glaberficken 8 hours ago 0 replies      
Now what I would really like to see is the numbers for "factory worked hours" / "car assembled" Tesla Vs Industry average.

Anyone reckon there would be a surprising number in this ratio? (i.e. is their automation level higher than the traditional car makers?)

chrismealy 2 hours ago 0 replies      
The union should do something about it.
hanoz 14 hours ago 2 replies      
"Tesla's safety record had been worse than slaughterhouses and sawmills."


"The scores dont account for severity however.


hackuser 14 hours ago 0 replies      
The Guardian reported on the same issue recently:


faragon 3 hours ago 1 reply      
TL;DR: clickbait article.
zaroth 14 hours ago 7 replies      
There's no defending Tesla's worker rights or saftey record. This is a company that's stood at the brink of failure for years and only survives through the blood, sweat, and tears of its employees.

Maybe you believe Elon when he says that it's worth it, but there's no arguing that it's a steep price to pay.

It's incredibly frustrating that no one has figured out a way to bring about the kind of transformative change that Tesla is after without such back breaking sacrifice. But I think the fact remains there's too much non-linearity in the means of production to get where Elon is trying to go without pushing his people to the limit.

The only "answer" I can give is just that I hope TSLA employees are getting enough equity to make it all worth it.

PhantomGremlin 14 hours ago 3 replies      
The Simpsons explained unions many years ago. It's spot on:

Waif: You can't treat the working man this way! One of these days we'll form a union, and get the fair and equitable treatment we deserve! Then we'll go too far, and become corrupt and shiftless, and the Japanese will eat us alive!

Show HN: ORY Editor A rich editor for the browser, built with React and Redux github.com
350 points by jswizzard  1 day ago   95 comments top 22
arekkas 1 day ago 2 replies      
The high CPU and memory usage was due to a large gif which was included two times. This gif accidentally was 1280p with 20fps and was about 40mb large. For some reason, the resizer did not properly work.

Anyways, the gif is now removed. I hope the performance gets much better now. The CPU fans on macbooks going up where probably due to a lack of a dedicated graphics card. This happened to me with my macbook and large gifs too.

If the problems don't go away, please create an issue in the repo so we can work on improving this! It would be important to include your steps so we are able to reproduce these issues.


Since this comment is on the top, I'll address a few more questions here too. If you missed the demo, it's here: http://editor.ory.am/

First, this is a layout editor first- and foremost. Behind the scenes, React, Redux and slate.js ( http://slatejs.org/ ) is being used. Each cell is a React component that you can implement yourself. In fact, the text component itself is a plugin that wraps slate.js.

Second, we're integrating this editor in Germany's largest e-learning platform (wiki-esque) with ~1 million MAUs: https://de.serlo.org

And lastly we're working on a business model behind it, with our ory sites product (early access): http://ory.am/sites/

If you want to check out our other open source products, feel free to do so: https://github.com/ory

hitekker 1 day ago 2 replies      
I think this looks great for CMS websites: where a user wishes to build an entire page in a web GUI.

For composing text in blocks on existing pages, like comments or posts, you would need a lighter-weight solution.

SlateJS (https://github.com/ianstormtaylor/slate) fits that purpose for me exceedingly well, more than DraftJS, Quill and others, since it doesn't treat XML/HTML as a second-class citizen.

The levels of complexity with text representation are:

Document -> Post -> Text

which corresponds roughly to the data sources:

JSON/Data Structure -> XML/HTML -> Plaintext / Markdown

Markdown can "upscale" to documents, but JSON data structures, by virtue of their complexity, do not "downscale" well at all to Markdown.

HTML is the simple middle for me: it shouldn't be used for documents, but it is totally intuitive for posts where a users simply wants to adjust the color of one's text. The blocks wrapping this text should own the data structure, e.g. a flag for "NSFW Content" shouldn't be in the text editor but an option on the post itself.

qrohlf 1 day ago 2 replies      
I'm curious, what does this offer over something like https://draftjs.org/, https://github.com/ianstormtaylor/slate, or http://prosemirror.net/ which also use normalized JSON (or ImmutableJS) objects for editor state and are backed by much larger and more established companies/communities.

We just launched https://ridewithgps.com/ride_reports which is built with draft, and I found it to be very flexible. I'd love to see the industry start to focus on using two or three best-in-class editors and contributing bugfixes to those rather than slugging it out with contentEditable again and again in smaller one-off projects.

Shank 1 day ago 1 reply      
The Chrome worker for the demo site accumulated about 600mb of ram. Is the editor really that heavy or is the demo page abnormally heavy?
TAForObvReasons 1 day ago 3 replies      
> Promising libraries potentially solving the above where abandoned by their maintainers, because it started as a special use case, or a free-time project.

> It is built by a company, reducing the likelihood of abandonment.

Even projects "built by a company" suffer the same fate. The only way to reduce the likelihood of abandonment is to tie a revenue stream directly to it, like customers paying for support or a pro version with additional features

ojosilva 1 day ago 1 reply      
Looks and works great, but there are 2 limitations I think would prevent it from using it in our stack:

1) It cannot be easily embedded, ie. as a field in a form. Apparently it's meant (UI-wise at least) as a full-screen editor and has lots of dependencies of its own, including React.

2) AGPLv3 license is a killer. Means that any work that links to the library should be opensourced. Despite some people interpreting it differently, it would be risky for a consumer product to ship making use of this library.

kowdermeister 19 hours ago 0 replies      
I get the cutting edge part, but what has happened to the good old distributed, built, minified version?

What if I just want to play with it, install it in a second and I don't want to download 50% of NPM?

palakchokshi 23 hours ago 1 reply      
Looks pretty good and I didn't see performance issues. From a usability perspective it's simple to use. I would suggest a couple of usability improvements.

1. The right side buttons for edit, layout, etc. have tooltips (that's great) but they should be like on/off buttons e.g. clicking layout once puts the editor in layout mode, clicking it again should bring editor out of layout mode back into preview.

2. In Edit mode the buttons on the bottom work like on/off buttons (that's great) those buttons should have tooltips.

3. Editing an image I can't put an alt value or title? How accessible is the content created by the editor?

Keep up the good work. I would use this for quick website/blog setup.

zaroth 13 hours ago 0 replies      
I went here: http://www.ory.am/sites/

They have a signup page. The premium option is $9/mo. I tried to signup, it brought me to a Google form. I completed the form.

OP: I will pay you $8/mo for this. It is beautiful and interesting, and is worth looking in to. I want to try to create some sites with this, I am happy to pay for it and self-host it. Hopefully it's easy to deploy.

Or better yet, I can let you host it for me. With the option of self-hosting anytime in the future. The key to adoption is making it as easy to install as Wordpress.

This could be big! Good luck.

ge96 10 hours ago 0 replies      
Man... everytime I think about building something... on this Chromebook I'm just like "Why did I buy this?" And it's ARM! ahhhhhhhh

I did like Cloud9, but still not used to it versus a local dev environment... hypderdev yo! Heard about that

rkuykendall-com 1 day ago 1 reply      
I'd love to switch to a modern, React editor, but sadly they're all for 'rich text', but not full HTML, so I'm stuck with TinyMCE.

I realize my use case is uncommon, which is users tweaking HTML emails before they are sent.

cocktailpeanuts 1 day ago 1 reply      
Isn't a lot of the "Others don't do this" addressed by Prosemirror? http://prosemirror.net/
kminehart 1 day ago 0 replies      
Ory makes some really cool stuff for OAuth / Authorization that we are considering using in our stack.




hla19 1 day ago 2 replies      
Almost broken on mobile, and my iphone gets really hot...
timdorr 1 day ago 0 replies      
Demo here: http://editor.ory.am/

Looks similar to Draft (https://draftjs.org) at least in how they think about maintaining editable content outside of the DOM. Glad to see some editors finally put this theory to practice.

nudpiedo 1 day ago 0 replies      
I like it because it looks complete and clean, however in safari for iPad the readme page in github already breaks and says the typical:

"A problem has ocurred, so the page has been reloaded"

I hope they fix it because it looks perfect for fast mockups

Edit: it seems to sadly happen with all ORY pages including the documentation

Filligree 1 day ago 0 replies      
How performant is this?

I don't have it on me right now, but if I were to dump a 400-kW document into the editor, would it still be snappy? That's one of the major weaknesses of Google Docs right now, and I'd consider switching if I found anything that lacks it.

graysonk 13 hours ago 0 replies      
> You are a web agency and are lookin for tailerd solutions?

From the pricing page. Is this a typo or a joke I am missing?

ergo14 1 day ago 1 reply      
But this is built with React so its not really reusable outside of its ecosystem.Is there a version that would run on preact instead?Maybe QuillJS would be a better option for general purpose editor.
aniskywalker 22 hours ago 1 reply      
Built studiously.co website with this. Highly recommend the sites editor!

Also using Hydra by the same author for OAuth2. Truly amazing work.

surfsvammel 22 hours ago 0 replies      
I like it! If there was an online journaling web-app using this, I would definitely use it. hinthint
iplaw 1 day ago 0 replies      
I enjoyed messing around with it but, like others have noted, it seems to be resource intensive - both CPU and memory. My CPU fans kicked into turbo-jet mode after playing around with the editor for a while. Maybe it's less resource intensive on the user (non-editor) side?

Optimizations will go a long way to swaying adoption. Clients like easy-to-use editing capabilities, and it doesn't get much easier than this.

MediaGoblin Self Hosted, Decentralized Alt to YouTube, Flickr, SoundCloud mediagoblin.org
585 points by huntermeyer  1 day ago   155 comments top 21
rglullis 1 day ago 8 replies      
Curious to see this here, given that I've been trying to set up some of these "decentralized services" at my home servers and figuring out if it is really possible to replace the common mainstream services.

So far, I installed my own Matrix server (synapse), my own XMPP (ejabberd), yesterday I got semi-happy with my mastodon setup, and now I was just finishing some tests with ownCloud to see if I could replace Dropbox.

MediaGoblin is on my list of services to setup. I ran a basic deployment and checked some other instances of it before, but I didn't put it higher on my priority list because to me it looks like it focus too much on being a "community-driven website" instead of providing a solid service as a media-hosting/publishing/catalog system.

To me it looks like they are shooting for the wrong level of "decentralization granularity". Each instance of these services are aiming for a "community", and think that the people use the mainstream tools because they don't want to/won't manage the server.

The point they seem to miss is that this only creates another type of top-down organization. It would be MUCH easier for them to focus on a "single-user" system, and start from the point that the communication will work when the applications talk with each other.

To me this is why Diaspora failed, and Wordpress is still such a big part of the internet.

Another thing I noticed: the projects that really focused on separating client from server produced much better results in terms of UI/UX. With Matrix, I just had to setup the server, and then I could have the riot app just point to my instance. If by any chance a better client comes around, my instance would be untouched.

Veratyr 1 day ago 1 reply      
I think to be able to say you're a "decentralized alternative to YouTube, Flickr, SoundCloud", you really need some way to search across all the servers in the network or at least interact with them and as far as I can tell, that doesn't exist. In the tour there's not even any mention of decentralization that I can see.

Is there something I'm missing?

Also in terms of self hosting, something I'd really like is the ability to point it at a pile of files and have it ingest them in place. Any idea whether that's possible?

anderspitman 1 day ago 6 replies      
I'm still waiting for an open source self-hosted alternative to Google Drive. Even just the basic functionality of a file browser, image thumbnails, photo gallery, and video player would be fantastic. Many such projects exist, and maybe I'm just lazy, but I really don't want to have to set up a PHP server in order to run such a thing. I would love something like Syncthing where you download a compiled Go binary, start up the service, and configure it through your browser.

I started implementing something like this myself but didn't make it very far. The fear of eventually running out of space or having privacy/security issues on Drive hasn't produced enough pain for me to really do anything yet.

rchrd2 1 day ago 1 reply      
MediaGoblin is available on Sandstorm (eg one click install): https://apps.sandstorm.io/app/70awyqss6jq2gkz7dwzsnvumzr0725...
galacticpony2 1 day ago 1 reply      
But where's the alternative Youtube website?

Youtube differentiates itself by being a go-to platform, a website that people actually visit to watch videos. Otherwise, call it an alternative to Vimeo, which is de-facto just a video hosting platform.

kemonocode 1 day ago 1 reply      
I always seem to remember this project sort of limping along, only to forget it a while after as even though I'm an artist and I could make some use of it, the setup is far too much of a trouble when a Wordpress blog would do the trick for sharing my works just fine. Maybe it needs something akin to what happened with GNU/Social and Mastodon to be thrown into the limelight.
paradite 1 day ago 1 reply      
Is this project still in active development? The release version has not reached 1.0 but there were only a few commits in the past months:


motters 1 day ago 0 replies      
Mediagoblin is also available as an app on Freedombone (https://freedombone.net)
TorKlingberg 1 day ago 1 reply      
I found a video on one of the example sites and opened it on mobile, iOS and the Google Search app. The video didn't play. That is why Youtube is so dominant. 12 years later and nobody else has figured out how to make videos that actually play.
xiconfjs 1 day ago 0 replies      
opened the first 3x live instances [1] and all videos required flash...

[1] https://wiki.mediagoblin.org/Live_instances

con022 23 hours ago 2 replies      
I am confusing with decentralized.If there is no central server, how can my node find the first neighbor node? If there is a server maintain a nodes list, it isn't decentralized, right?
cdolan92 1 day ago 2 replies      
This may be off topic, but does anyone think that there is a correlation between pop culture (Silicon Valley's Pied Piper this season) and services like this springing up/getting more attention than normal?
eco 23 hours ago 1 reply      
I'm not understanding what is decentralized about it. It just looks like a bunch of Gallery 2 installations. Do the servers interact in some way? Is the content hosted in a decentralized fashion? I can't find anything on the website that clarifies it.
criddell 1 day ago 1 reply      
This seems like the kind of thing that should be packaged to be one-click-installed on a NAS box.
stefek99 1 day ago 0 replies      
Interview from 2013 - they have been around - http://redecentralize.org/interviews/2013/10/13/06-chris-med...
symlinkk 1 day ago 1 reply      
Why use this instead of just putting a directory on public FTP or something?
leemailll 1 day ago 0 replies      
Reminds me of the dead gallery project and Piwigo. Any comparison with these?
thunfisch 1 day ago 0 replies      
If you're looking for a more end-to-end solution, suitable for lecture/event recording, processing and distribution with a more permissive license, you might want to checkout http://www.opencast.org as well.
flamedoge 1 day ago 0 replies      
BitChute is another
zoner 1 day ago 3 replies      
This is awesome. The amount of censure we are getting on YT and others is ridiculous. We are a group promoting racial awareness, not something the current empire is tolerating, alas it's members are a target of modern age witch hunting.

I'm surprised I haven't found this project before, but I'm sure I'll also contribute to it in the future.

Just a little note if would be easier to find it if the source code was hosted on GitHub.

hoodoof 1 day ago 5 replies      
This looks like another way of sharing stuff that big companies don't want you to share. I seem to recall this story not ending well in the past. And AGPL? - such an unappealing license - it's the license for open source extremists.
The largest Git repo microsoft.com
1019 points by ethomson  1 day ago   379 comments top 7
js2 1 day ago 11 replies      
Windows, because of the size of the team and the nature of the work, often has VERY large merges across branches (10,000s of changes with 1,000s of conflicts).

At a former startup, our product was built on Chromium. As the build/release engineer, one of my daily responsibilities was merging Chromium's changes with ours.

Just performing the merge and conflict resolution was anywhere from 5 minutes to an hour of my time. Ensuring the code compiled was another 5 minutes to an hour. If someone on the Chromium team had significantly refactored a component, which typically occurred every couple weeks, I knew half my day was going to be spent dealing with the refactor.

The Chromium team at the time was many dozens of engineers, landing on the order of a hundred commits per day. Our team was a dozen engineers landing maybe a couple dozen commits daily. A large merge might have on the order of 100 conflicts, but typically it was just a dozen or so conflicts.

Which is to say: I don't understand how it's possible to deal with a merge that has 1k conflicts across 10k changes. How often does this occur? How many people are responsible for handling the merge? Do you have a way to distribute the conflict resolution across multiple engineers, and if so, how? And why don't you aim for more frequent merges so that the conflicts aren't so large?

(And also, your merge tool must be incredible. I assume it displays a three-way diff and provides an easy way to look at the history of both the left and right sides from the merge base up to the merge, along with showing which engineer(s) performed the change(s) on both sides. I found this essential many times for dealing with conflicts, and used a mix of the git CLI and Xcode's opendiff, which was one of the few at the time that would display a proper three-way diff.)

sp332 1 day ago 3 replies      
Archive Team is making a distributed backup of the Internet Archive. http://archiveteam.org/index.php?title=INTERNETARCHIVE.BAK Currently the method getting the most attention is to put the data into git-annex repos, and then have clients just download as many files as they have storage space for. But because of limitations with git, each repo can only handle about 100,000 files even if they are not "hydrated". http://git-annex.branchable.com/design/iabackup/ If git performance were improved for files that have not been modified, this restriction could be lifted and the manual work of dividing collections up into repos could be a lot lower.

Edit: If you're interested in helping out, e.g. porting the client to Windows, stop by the IRC channel #internetarchive.bak on efnet.

cryptonector 1 day ago 8 replies      
At Sun Microsystems, Inc., (RIP) we have many "gates" (repos) that made up Solaris. Cross-gate development was somewhat more involved, but still not bad. Basically: you installed the latest build of all of Solaris, then updated the bits from your clones of the gates in question. Still, a single repo is great if it can scale, and GVFS sounds great!

But that's not what I came in to say.

I came in to describe the rebase (not merge!) workflow we used at Sun, which I recommend to anyone running a project the size of Solaris (or larger, in the case of Windows), or, really, even to much smaller projects.

For single-developer projects, you just rebased onto the latest upstream periodically (and finally just before pushing).

For larger projects, the project would run their own upstream that developers would use. The project would periodically rebase onto the latest upstream. Developers would periodically rebase onto their upstream: the project's repo.

The result was clean, linear history in the master repository. By and large one never cared about intra-project history, though project repos were archived anyways so that where one needed to dig through project-internal history ("did they try a different alternative and found it didn't work well?"), one could.

I strongly recommend rebase workflows over merge workflows. In particular, I recommend it to Microsoft.

quotemstr 1 day ago 2 replies      
I have tremendous respect for Microsoft pulling itself together over the past few years.
tobyhinloopen 1 day ago 8 replies      
I wonder why Windows is a single repository - Why not split it in separate modules? I can imagine tools like Explorer, Internet Explorer/Edge, Notepad, Wordpad, Paint, etc. all can stay in its own repository. I can imagine you can even further split things up, like a kernel, a group of standard drivers, etc. If that is not already the case (separate repos, that is), are the plans to separate it in the future?
lloeki 1 day ago 3 replies      
Coming from the days of CVS and SVN, git was a freaking miracle in terms of performance, so I have to just put things into perspective here when the topmost issue of git is performance. It's just a testament how huge are the codebases we're dealing with (Windows over there, but also Android, and surely countless others), the staggering amount of code we're wrangling around these days and the level of collaboration is incredible and I'm quite sure we would not have been able to do that (or at least not that nimbly and with such confidence) were it not for tools like git (and hg). There's a sense of scale regarding that growth across multiple dimensions that just puts me in awe.
vtbassmatt 1 day ago 13 replies      
A handful of us from the product team are around for a few hours to discuss if you're interested.
       cached 26 May 2017 16:02:02 GMT