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Wikipedia blocked in Turkey turkeyblocks.org
344 points by alansammarone  4 hours ago   193 comments top 18
beloch 3 hours ago 14 replies      
I'm a canuck who has worked with Turks and has visited Turkey. They're a wonderful people from a beautiful country with a real problem of a person in power. Turkey is almost entirely Muslim, yet they produce alcohol and tolerate its consumption within their borders, even by their own people. Let that fact sink in for a moment. Erdogan is subverting the premier secular democracy of the Islamic world, but nobody seems to care.

Turkey is nothing like the common stereotypes we have of it in the West, but Erdogan is a guy who, I think, wants to change that. A wonderful human being who I've had the privilege of knowing is currently in prison in Turkey on absolutely baseless accusations[1]. Nobody in Canada gives a damn because he was an "Imam", and that's a scary word apparently.

People in the West need to wake up and do their due diligence on Erdogan's regime. There's some seriously scary stuff happening because of this guy.


RcouF1uZ4gsC 4 hours ago 3 replies      
I think 2016 will go down as the high water mark for a global Internet. I see a lot of countries looking at the success of China in keeping political control, and the failure of Egypt, Tunisia, etc where the open Internet was used to overthrow the regime and deciding that allowing an open, free internet is not in their best interests.If you think that Western, liberal democracies are exempt from this, just look at the attention "fake news" and "no platform" have been getting. We are going away from the free and open interchange and discussion of ideas (even horrible ideas) to the coercive suppression of ideas (at this point bad ideas, but may not be true in the future).

Add to this that a large portion of the web content is controlled by fewer entities (if Facebook or Google bans your site, you are not going to get very much exposure). Also, we are moving from user controlled general purpose computers to secured, walked garden devices. The government by applying pressure on maybe a dozen companies, can control what type of information the average person is exposed to.

And the whole dodge that the first amendment only applies to the government is dangerous. Freedom of speech is as much a principle as a law. If we get used to large powerful non-government entities suppressing speech we do not like, it will be a brief step to accepting government doing the same or at least pressuring the non-government entities to so it.

sethbannon 4 hours ago 1 reply      
Meanwhile, in the U.S., the administration is taking down government websites in an effort to bury climate data and scientific information. Useful to remember it's not just countries like China and Turkey that try to limit citizens' access to information.


adtac 4 hours ago 2 replies      

A data dump of all English Wikipedia articles as a torrent. In case you are not able to access that, here's the direct link: https://itorrents.org/torrent/6434C646E33D02F3CDCB9C15F9DF11...

On a side note, I think it's fantastic that we have the entire Wikipedia, possibly the greatest effort towards organizing the world's information, at our fingertips.

kakamba 3 hours ago 2 replies      
As suggested by others, it's a court order. Turkish officials demanded a few things from wikipedia. The main item was to remove all content where Turkey is shown supporting ISIS, but they didn't receive a response, and the repercussion was blocking access nationwide.
maehwasu 3 hours ago 2 replies      
To what degree is Erdogan's regime a problem of not enough democracy, as opposed to a fundamental problem with democracy itself? (Where democracy = 51% wins)
louithethrid 2 hours ago 3 replies      
Consider if you will - a diffrent approach to infrastructure altogether. There are no cables, no centralized Servers - just wifi capable devices.

How does it route, i hear you asking?It routes by likelihood of connection to social plankton. Social plankton is every group your device ever connects to- and is constituted by those members of the group, which who can gather the most "Yes"-votes about theire prediction, of the behaviour of the group.Take a bus filled with people driving to work. They always constitute from slightly diffrent devices, but the time is always the same, the amount of devices is always the same- and there is always that one deciding device - belonging to the social plankton "transportation-company" without the plankton would never come together.

Now lets take the greatest possible counter example: A convention of bus drivers, riding on a bus to the first convention of its kind.They would debate alot, and agree upon it beeing a bus- but neither could secure a majority - which bus it is. None of the driving by social plankton - called houses and cars, is able to identify the bus of busses, thus a new social plankton class is created.

How does a adress in this add-hoc net look like?It consists of a Unique identifier, wrapped into layers of social plankton, sorted by likelihood. The social organism city is likely to know the social organism university within. The key ingredient is, that inner-plankton, can be encrypted and decrypted only after arrival at the outter plankton.

So this allows for -extremely slow, in extremely big burst- communication to happen. Without any IP-Provider or Infrastructure Controll authority having a hand on it.

Even better, it allows for Meta-Organisms to host services. Lets say, i have a shard of Wikipedia on my cellphone, and im part of the opt-in plankton "FreeSociety", any request to a wikipedia server, that bounces with no return off the web, could bounce back through the social organisms internal, until it reaches me, gets a package returned, and the web is down but the gate is up.

StavrosK 3 hours ago 3 replies      
I'm assuming Tor circumvents the ban, correct? I'm going to tell all my Turkish friends to install Tor and signal, and be sad that Turkey has reached this point.
jumpkickhit 1 hour ago 0 replies      
Are torrents being blocked? What about Kwix and a torrent of Wikipedia?


kyriakos 4 hours ago 2 replies      
What triggered this?

Usually Turkish government blocks sites right after a terrorist attack or in the case of the coup attempt. Is something about to happen?

PleaseHelpMe 22 minutes ago 0 replies      
Oh, poor the students there.
yak0 3 hours ago 0 replies      
Turks which knows wikipedia, already know how to use a vpn. It's a ridiculous decision. Our ruling should find better solutions for such problems
agumonkey 1 hour ago 1 reply      
Any alternative ? mirrors ? slimmed torrent distribution ?
rdslw 3 hours ago 0 replies      
First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak outBecause I was not a Socialist.

Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak outBecause I was not a Trade Unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak outBecause I was not a Jew.

Then they came for meand there was no one left to speak for me.


darkhorn 1 hour ago 0 replies      
This is idiocracy!
itburnslikeice 4 hours ago 2 replies      
known 2 hours ago 1 reply      
Another North Korea?
someguu 4 hours ago 4 replies      
Governments yield too much power, meanwhile citizens keep funding said governments with ridiculously high taxes.

Trying to fix governments is counterproductive, just need to decentralize things imho.

Concerns with JPMS spec and Jigsaw implementation java.net
64 points by chris_overseas  3 hours ago   27 comments top 10
nullnilvoid 3 hours ago 2 replies      
Despite all the flaws of Java such as verbosity and heavy JVM, Java has been rock-solid and working very well. Reaching consensus might be slow, but it also ensures the stability and reliability of Java. I have used so much buggy software that is pushed out before it is ready. Java is not one of them.
ognyankulev 2 hours ago 1 reply      
The link in the mail https://developer.jboss.org/blogs/scott.stark/2017/04/14/cri... contains much more detailed discussion on Jigsaw concerns by "members of the Red Hat middleware team, Apache Maven chair, Paremus, Sonatype, as well as other Java Executive Committee(EC) members"
jjm 12 minutes ago 0 replies      
The spirit of the desire for a robust yet useable module system i believe is at odds between Oracle and the community. A middle approach while seemingly sensible is less attractive to the community. What works for core modules may not work for the (regardless of what some may call design flaws) more complex and more important community modules.

The community made Java what it is today. This system is supposed to support the community more so. You could say that the problems were created.

Without the community Oracle would not have the resources to sustain Java.

geodel 14 minutes ago 0 replies      
It would seem no surprise anyone who invested heavily in osgi or other competing technology to Jigsaw will be unsympathetic to Jigsaw irrespective of technical merit. The sustained campaign against Jigsaw is going on for more than 10 years.
MarkMc 1 hour ago 2 replies      
I just used Jigsaw to create a Java 9 runtime for Windows based on a "Hello World" program. This JRE is only dependent on the 'java.base' module, so it is as small as possible. Yet the resulting JRE is still 35 MB on disk (13.2 MB compressed).

I'm a little disappointed that after so much effort to cut bloat in the JRE, a simple 'Hello World' program still requires 13.2 MB.

MarkMc 2 hours ago 2 replies      
Can someone describe IBM's main objections? And will this mean that the Java 9 release is delayed?
austincheney 3 hours ago 1 reply      
JPMS spec - http://openjdk.java.net/projects/jigsaw/spec/

Project Jigsaw - http://openjdk.java.net/projects/jigsaw/

I don't know what the design decisions are behind these technologies, but I just hope it isn't NPM for Java.

vbezhenar 2 hours ago 2 replies      
So, I guess, no modules in Java 9.
godmodus 3 hours ago 2 replies      
"IBM is also voting "no" which reflects our position that the JSR is not ready at this time to move beyond the Public Review stage and proceed to Proposed Final Draft"

The title is a tad misleading. They just want to delay the project, not block it. (at least i undetstood theyd delay it from initially reading the title)

Forcing the Password Gropers Through a Smaller Hole with OpenBSD's PF Queues bsdly.blogspot.com
18 points by bootload  1 hour ago   1 comment top
mrmondo 39 minutes ago 0 replies      
Interesting read, thanks for posting!
BMW i3 Long Term Battery Capacity Report: Better Than Expected bmwblog.com
54 points by jseliger  5 hours ago   9 comments top 5
jgrahamc 17 minutes ago 0 replies      
The BMW i3 is a really nice car to drive around London for short trips. There's a pretty good charging infrastructure through ChargeNow and the car is nippy. It takes a short while to get used to the regenerative braking system and I particularly like the rear mounted camera for parking.
Theodores 6 minutes ago 1 reply      
The i3s that I see in London don't appear to be plugged in, they seem owned by people who don't have that at home. I presume they plug in at work but without knowing that there is no way for knowing for sure.

Are people buying these things, doing a small amount of miles with them and powering them from the petrol engine on-board rather than plugging in? In that way getting preferential parking spaces at airports and in the city centre, no congestion charge needed? I am fine with people using them in 'Prius mode' if it does mean people that did rule out electric due to not having home infrastructure can actually go 'electric lite', running off petrol and opportunistic charging.

_benedict 3 hours ago 0 replies      
This is an interesting article, but the cross-validation is perhaps suspect? It seems likely the 'percentage used' indicator is based on the same underlying measurements as the 'estimated capacity' service indicator. So it's quite likely illusory validation of the 4% loss figure.
faragon 1 hour ago 0 replies      
TL;DR: if manufacturer gives a guarantee for a component, the component will last for honoring the guarantee.
cmrdporcupine 43 minutes ago 3 replies      
GM seems to have the best battery health system. Doesn't let you charge past 85%, 90%, always keeps 10% or 15% in reserve. Only reports the chunk between. Dedicated robust temperature control system.

Volt has been out since 2011 with as-far-as-I-know no battery degradation issues. Some people have driven well over 300,000 miles with no problems.

Visualizing Concurrency in Go divan.github.io
219 points by velodrome  13 hours ago   15 comments top 9
eddd 29 minutes ago 0 replies      
That's a really neat way of explaining concurrency model.

I did something similar for Erlang VM http://eddwardo.github.io/elixir/links/2015/11/04/links-in-e... (less advanced).I'd love to see comparison of these two models.

xg15 33 minutes ago 0 replies      
This looks like a useful approach to visualize the interactions between different services in a SOA or microservice-based architecture. (You'd need some way for each service to log its send and receive events without the logging slowing everything down though)

In any case, a very cool idea. I really like the use of 3D to fit more nodes into the diagram without it getting unreadable. I think this is an approach that could help with visualizing large graphs in general - it would be cool if there was more research about that.

Dangeranger 8 hours ago 2 replies      
This is very nice. Does anyone have an idea of how to extend the visualization so that they could be rendered based on the actual runtime of a real program?

I have a theory that much complexity could be understood if humans could just see the interactions and the data flowing.

Even if the program took 100X longer to run, if you can see the bug, you can fix it. If you can see the complexity, you can understand it.

opaque 2 hours ago 3 replies      
> If I ask you something involving numbers from 1 to 100 you will have your own image of the series in your head, even without realizing it. For example, I imagine it as a line going from me with numbers from 1 to 20, then it turns 90 degrees to the right and continues to the 1000+.

Actually no, perhaps you're not aware of this, but you have a condition called spatial-sequence Synesthesia. It's a harmless and fascinating condition in which the senses have arbitrary connections to each other (numbers have colours, sounds have tastes). Many people are unaware of it. I've only heard of it because a friend at university (and also a Synesthete) researches it.



Groxx 11 hours ago 0 replies      
I saw the video a while ago - really neat technique, I love the visual differences between patterns. Love that it's written down - far too much great material is locked up, unsearchable, in videos.
amelius 4 hours ago 0 replies      
This is nice. I'm wondering how you would use it though. Probably you'd start analyzing the diagram at the top, then look at what will happen next, and then the next, etc.

But this is basically the same as just looking at the log.

Am I missing something?

ziikutv 9 hours ago 0 replies      
This is really cool.

I wonder at what point WebGL craps out. How many concurrent processes can it handle?

psiclops 10 hours ago 0 replies      
asswhole 7 hours ago 0 replies      
Great Job!
I found the best anagram in English plover.com
266 points by oli5679  13 hours ago   58 comments top 28
DonHopkins 6 hours ago 2 replies      
It's uncanny some of the acronyms you can find in "advanced mode" at https://wordsmith.org/anagram/advanced.html :

First find some good words in a couple of short phrases:

Y Combinator:Combat Irony, Romantic Boy, Acronym Obit, Bay Moron Tic, Not Bay Micro, A Brim Tycoon, A Born Comity, My Bacon Riot, Into My Cobra, Tiny Crab Moo

Hacker News: She Knew Arc, Knew Search, Whack Sneer, Cranks Whee!!! (emphasis added ;), Shaken Crew, Ashen Wreck, Answer Heck, Rewash Neck, Eschew Nark, Rakes Wench, Swank Cheer, Ark Wenches, Warn Cheeks, A Neck Shrew, Wrecks a Hen, Knew Re Cash

Then put them together and enter your favorite words into "Anagrams must include this word" (or manually remove the letters of the words you want to keep if it says the input is too long):

Y Combinator Hacker News:

New Mob Cash Racket Irony

I'm sure there are more, but I'm just going to stop right there!

EDIT: I just can't stop!

Tricky Wannabe Moochers, Cannabis Coworker Thyme, Cybernetics Nohow Karma, Wacko Minty Abhorrences, Betcha Wonkier Acronyms, Wacko Cerebration Hymns, Romantic Wonky Breaches, Beckons Worthy American, Inaner Worthy Comebacks, Chicken Anatomy Browser, Antiwar Cockney Hombres, Awaken Botcher Cronyism, Obscene Wonky Matriarch, Nonsmoker Raceway Bitch...

bitwize 1 minute ago 0 replies      
It's worth noting that megachiroptera are fruit bats. And they are adorable: https://youtu.be/t26UZM70YzY
DonHopkins 7 hours ago 3 replies      
The Internet Anagram Server at https://wordsmith.org/anagram/advanced.html has an "advanced" mode that you can use to incrementally refine long anagrams once you find juicy words, by entering the words you want to keep in the "Anagrams must include this word" field.

I'll bet dollars for donuts that nobody can find any worse anagrams for their own full name than I've found for my own, "Donald Edward Hopkins":

The "clean" runner up is:

"Dank Washed Dildo Porn"

But the winner is:

"We Shank Dildo Porn Dad"

chiliap2 9 hours ago 0 replies      
This blog post inspired me to do a similar analysis using Urban Dictionary words instead: https://medium.com/@carnye/the-funniest-anagrams-of-urban-di...
tyingq 12 hours ago 3 replies      
The last time this was posted, I scored his list with Levenshtein edit distance. It was, predictably, not as good at bubbling up the best anagrams. His winner scored 11, so still somewhat near the top, but not standing out as well.


jimmytucson 9 hours ago 1 reply      
Perl was the first programming language I learned. I spent about 2 years writing programs in it and studying it exclusively. Nowadays I don't use it at all. However, if I had chosen another language first then I never would have read Higher Order Perl -- truly one of the most brain-wrinkle-inducing books I've ever read, and loaded with examples of beautiful code (in Perl, no less!). Can't recommend it enough.
kccqzy 10 hours ago 2 replies      
I think it can be much more interesting if these anagrams are not just limited to single words, but whole phrases or sentences. Makes the search a lot harder I think, but the results are much more fun. I especially like authors who incorporate those linguistic tricks in their works like "Vivian Darkbloom"/"Vladimir Nabokov" or "Tom Marvolo Riddle"/"I Am Lord Voldemort".
hkmurakami 11 hours ago 0 replies      
fwiw, here is the discussion from the 2 months ago when this was submitted (renamed "Anagram Scoring") https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13696196
rimliu 15 minutes ago 0 replies      
I still have this that I wrote years ago:

 for(<>){chop;$s{join'',sort split'',lc}.=" $_"}for(sort%s){/. /&&print"$_\n"}
Feed it a wordlist and it spews out anagrams.

sytse 10 hours ago 0 replies      
anagramanram/nouna word, phrase, or name formed by rearranging the letters of another, such as cinema, formed from iceman.

funny that the textbook definition of anagram is the word that is the basis of the winner here: cinematographer

oska 7 hours ago 0 replies      
Whenever I walk past a sign in front of a house advertising that it will soon be up for auction, I rearrange the letters to spell caution. (Especially with the overinflated house prices in Australia currently).
defined 5 hours ago 0 replies      
My second-most favorite pair of anagrams after the movie-showing giant bat is coprophagist topographics.

Detailed maps of areas in which dung-eaters live? Worth buying just to avoid the neighborhood... :)

Edit: These anagram pairs would also make interesting Short Authentication Strings for ZRTP. Worthy of a Monty Python skit, if you ask me.

karyon 7 hours ago 0 replies      
kpil 5 hours ago 0 replies      
So the best anagrams in English are actually Greek (?)

"Soapstone teaspoons" is 80% old English with a splash of Chinese.

Interestingly, most germanic words seems to be rather short. But I guess the reason for using long Greek, Latin or French words is to look important, so the longer the better.

cody8295 10 hours ago 0 replies      
I think 'clitoridean directional' is a clear winner
donquichotte 4 hours ago 0 replies      
Nice write-up, especially the comparison of rearranging letters and computing every permutation of a list to find d the one that is sorted.

BTW, my favourite anagram in German: Zitronensaft - Fronteinsatz (lemon juice - service at the front (mil))

DanBC 5 hours ago 0 replies      
There were some comments in this thread: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13696196
ShannonAlther 11 hours ago 0 replies      
Another 14-pointer which was overlooked:

nitromagnesite <--> regimentations

andy_ppp 2 hours ago 0 replies      
The best anagram in English is definitely "tapestries" ;-)
AceyMan 5 hours ago 1 reply      
My alma mater's Ultimate Frisbee team were called the 'Earthworms,' an anagram of the school name(1).

Which was cool.

1Finding said name is left as an exercise for the reader.

raldi 9 hours ago 1 reply      
Might be interesting to give bonus points to pairs of words with origins far apart on the linguistic taxonomy.
mgiannopoulos 4 hours ago 1 reply      
>> 8 negativism timesaving

Negativism is timesaving? Mind blown :)

hatsunearu 10 hours ago 1 reply      
Wait, so what can cinematographer megachiropteran be rearranged to be? is it "GIANT BAT! DEATH FROM ABOVE!!!"?
Pxtl 9 hours ago 1 reply      
I'd skip the dictionary and scrape all of Wikipedia, then weigh words by frequency.
ma2rten 11 hours ago 1 reply      
I feel like anagram quality should include other things as well, like how common the words are.
mproud 9 hours ago 2 replies      
Competitive Scrabble players know just about all the 7- and 8-letter anagrams.
i336_ 5 hours ago 0 replies      
Some time ago I iterated through all the links at http://storage.googleapis.com/books/ngrams/books/datasetsv2.... to get their Content-Length. All up it's 21TB compressed. Just US English comes in at about 9GB or something though IIRC (unsure, might be completely wrong).

With this being said, the data is very, very very raw and unprocessed (contains things like "xxiv_DET", "X25.000_NOUN", "X1E", "X16_NUM" etc, just to give some random examples from the Xs). Would be a lot of work to sanitize it, but you might get some interesting results in the process.

So IOW this would be somewhere between "toy" and "interestingness from chaos".

Sam_Harris 5 hours ago 0 replies      
Hacker news: a never-ending festival of reposts.
Simple Python interface to NASA datasets bmtgoncalves.github.io
28 points by rbanffy  6 hours ago   3 comments top 2
PLenz 2 hours ago 0 replies      
Nice, and perfectly timed for SpaceApps this weekend.

See you all at SpaceApps NY.

Kenji 3 hours ago 1 reply      
I read "Simple Python interface to NSA datasets"

That would have been... alarming.

A Large Self-Annotated Corpus for Sarcasm arxiv.org
15 points by blopeur  2 hours ago   6 comments top 3
nebabyte 12 minutes ago 0 replies      
To provide you refuge from the inevitable deluge of sarcastic comments in this comment section, here is a genuine/sincere comment: I like cats.

> sarcasm is labelled by the author

They literally just searched out "/s". Clever. Though I'm guessing the "independently verified" entailed reading a lot of those comments.

Did they also read through the nonlabelled comments to catch any unlabelled sarcasm? (Guessing not since the pitch is of "self labelled sarcasm") wonder if that'll trip any usage up.

psyc 35 minutes ago 1 reply      
Neat. HNers could train themselves on it.
basicplus2 1 hour ago 1 reply      
Is this Corpus for Sarcasm real or is this report of a corpus of sarcasm sarcasm?
Rust for Clojurists github.com
48 points by lsh  6 hours ago   9 comments top 5
hacker_9 2 hours ago 2 replies      
Good article. He missed out the main pro though (and literally the only reason I ever use any Lisp): hot swapping. The ability to change code on the fly as the program is running. For this to actually work you need 2 things:

1. No explicit types: Everything in Clojure is just a list or hash map, so I can add extra members to anything at runtime no problem. The amount of static checks Rust does at compile time makes this non viable.

2. Fully immutable data structures: If my changes cause exceptions, then the program can just rewind and throw away the new state it was building, let me fix the error I made, and then continue on as if I never committed the broken code. In Rust an exception would mean I've potentially mutated state in a bunch of places, and now can't get back to the previous working state at all.

delegate 21 minutes ago 0 replies      
Some funny gems:

> You will remain a replaceable silhouette with no discernible identity.

> This isn't C or C++, where you just include files like a caveman.

>The upside is, you will curse it at compile-time instead of at runtime. The downside is, "exploratory programming" means exploring how to convince the compiler to let you try an idea.

After that it gets a bit more serious, but still a very good Saturday afternoon read.

1_player 24 minutes ago 0 replies      
> Rust chose to call its [package] format "crates". This reflects the language's industrial roots and the humble, blue collar town of its sponsor: Mountain View, California.

Nice :)

edem 4 hours ago 0 replies      
They are called __clojurians__.
rcarmo 3 hours ago 2 replies      
Aside from the emphasis on mutability, I got nothing from this except bias. .jar files are an _advantage_, and the author comes across as a card-carrying member of the Rust Evangelism Strikeforce aiming to bring into the fold a small (but opinionated, and borderline influential) community :)
Live video image recognition on Raspberry Pi using YOLO v2 github.com
29 points by revicon  5 hours ago   3 comments top 2
nl 1 hour ago 0 replies      
YOLO, YOLO2 and YOLO9000 are pretty amazing pieces of work. Resnet variations gets more attention and wins more competitions, but in a lot of spaces YOLO* is much more useful.

It deals with all the practical issues of making image recognition fast and scaleable by making sensible tradeoffs.

revicon 5 hours ago 1 reply      
The youtube video demonstration of video image recognition on YOLOv2's website is entertaining as well..


The Boring Company [video] boringcompany.com
699 points by janvdberg  15 hours ago   637 comments top 111
Xcelerate 12 hours ago 17 replies      
It's amazing to me the amount of negativity directed toward his projects and the millions of reasons people give for why they "won't work" (not necessarily on HN, but at least on general news websites).

I'm starting to believe the only difference between those who start their own companies and those who don't is that the latter convinces themselves that it is impossible, never builds anything, and from their own lack of having ever produced anything, concludes that their original supposition was indeed correct.

athenot 10 hours ago 8 replies      
This looks really cool. However, boring through rock is the most expensive way to connect 2 places. It only makes sense if the land features or purchase value require it.

Fundamentally, this is about short-circuiting the regular road network and establishing a managed packet network that can bypass congestion. Interestingly, that's also the value proposition of public transit, though it also runs into issues of cost, and too low of a population density make it unfeasible.

I still think we haven't fully leveraged the potential of busses. In most cities, they are slow because they combine the disadvantages of road traffic with the disadvantage of time tables. But what if busses operated on their own dedicated network? Bogota deployed a public transit system made with busses but with a UX of a train[1]. This is a genius idea that could work in many US cities, which have a lot more space to spare.

But back to the original idea, I think we might see in the future a "managed" road network, reserved to self-driving cars which are driven by some central management system, optimising routing for the whole network so as to prevent congestion. This won't require tunnels, just gates, dedicated roads and lots of software.

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cU6ImWY4IBc

pnathan 15 hours ago 18 replies      
This is very, very wasteful compared to actual mass transit. A subway network is much more effective at delivering people.

If he's looking for mega-good, Musk would do significantly better to drop a full subway network.

edit: tunnelling is a broadly solved problem. It's difficult, expensive, slow, etc. But there's no engineering reason why a hole in the ground can't happen. Musk might be able to drive some significant improvements there. No idea. But tunneling itself is not a reason to knock an idea beyond the cost and geoengineering involved.

tuacker 15 hours ago 16 replies      
I feel like everything Elon Musk undertakes with his companies is just one huge Mars Beta Test.

 - SpaceX: Obvious, got to get to space somehow - Tesla: Build cars/machines to run on something that is guaranteed to exist on Mars (the sun) vs. Oil - Gigafactory: How to build batteries 101 - Solar roof: While Earths environment may not be as harsh as Mars you still learn something, and improve solar panel production in the process - Boring: May not make too much sense on Earth with existing infrastructure, but undereart..undermars? transportation is protected from the environment/sand stroms/whathaveyou.
I also don't know about the mineral composition of Mars and what boring does to the usability of those, but this may be a 2 birds one stone: Bore underground network and get required materials to build out mars base.

How to go to Mars and stay there:

 1. Figure out what you need 2. Build it 3. ??? 4. Mars
Where 3. is use it, refine it, perfect it, like landing a rocket on a automated barge in the middle of the sea.

Or he just hates LA traffic.

lopespm 26 minutes ago 0 replies      
I have profound respect of Musk's perseverance and courage to tackle difficult problems, coupled with a great vision of the future. This project however, as it was presented, strikes me as a bit off the mark.

I lived in a dense city with good public transportation and good bike and pedestrian lanes. To get around the city and its surroundings, I would mostly use my bike. It was incredibly fast to find a parking spot and to get from point A to point B. Other times, I would use the integrated public transport system (bus/train/tram) if wanted to go somewhere further in less time. I had options, flexibility and much more freedom than I would if I used/owned a car. Not only that, but my quality of life was way higher than that in the suburbs. Not having a car made a huge difference: more physical activity, less monetary burdens and the piece of mind acquired by not thinking about its maintenance and care.

This takes me to my second point: passenger cars are mostly useful in sparse areas, like the suburbs. In dense areas it makes less sense to have a personal cocoon for transportation. Although the boring company's tunnels are underground, that same energy and investment would be better suited in a public transport alternative, like a subway. This subway would transport people and their bikes, and this could serve as a push for the street level pedestrian, bike and public transport infrastructures to get better.

tptacek 14 hours ago 10 replies      
Since this is a thread about Elon Musk, transportation infrastructure, public transportation, and urban design, and because HN has a sort of affinity for the Robert Moses story (The Power Broker was one of 'aaronsw's favorite books), this seems like a particularly on-point Twitter thread to read after the video:


You might not agree with all/any of it but I think it's hard to say this isn't thought-provoking.

OoTheNigerian 13 hours ago 3 replies      
I think there is nothing more boring than reading a bunch of people who never propose anything point out flaws.

You all sound like Balmer.

This is a CONCEPT!!

Elon is THINKING you all are pointing, laughing and adding no value to the conversation of "What comes next?"

If your idea is "the metro works", a 150 year old system, then this video is not for you.

To the video, I like the concept of combining public and private transportation in the same path.

It also makes sense as a way to directly link far distances. To me, this is a modification of the hyperloop concept. Something more feasible in the shorter term and definitely less risky.

Of course all this depends on the economics and physics of boring becoming cheap and 10x faster. keep thinking Elon.

Earth needs more of your "fantasies". Let the pointers keep pointing.

loufe 15 hours ago 11 replies      
The costs of tunneling are like FAR more expensive than most think. Breaking, excavating, and supporting rock is slow, time and cost heavy, and precarious work. While this is an interesting concept, unless there are serious advances in rock boring techniques (personal opinion: there are none coming) this will never approach fruition. I would suggest anyone interested in further research look into the "Big Dig" of Boston and the staggering costs and challenges it faced.

Good luck, Elon. It'll be another moonshot company if you can pull it off.

dankohn1 8 hours ago 1 reply      
The essence of The Boring Company is the same as the business plan behind SpaceX: people assume that an existing industry (tunnel development, rocket launches) is reasonably well run and operating at something of a local optimum. But it turns out that there are order of magnitude (i.e., 10x) improvements available when Musk is able to assemble a sufficiently capable team to focus on it.

I would suggest that tunnelling is a more fertile opportunity, given that there had already been a bunch of rocket startups that had tried and failed over the last couple decades. Tunneling today is insanely expensive. Here's a superb article from Matt Yglesias at Vox on the $2.2 B per km Second Avenue Subway: http://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/1/1/14112776/new... . Other countries are already achieving costs of $100 M per km or less.

Now, does the car carriage from the video make perfect sense? I'm skeptical. But Musk has never been slavishly faithful to the original conception of his ideas. He gets started and then iterates, and so far the results have been awfully impressive.

shouldbworking 15 hours ago 10 replies      
Did anyone else notice that cars being lowered leaves a giant fucking hole in the middle of the street?!

This is a marketing fluff video untouched by engineers

AlexandrB 16 hours ago 7 replies      
I don't get it. Much of the USA is faced with crumbling infrastructure and a lack of money for maintaining that infrastructure. How is creating a network of powered tunnels - which are much more expensive to maintain than surface roads - going to interact with this economic reality?

This seems like technology that addresses mostly fun, theoretical problems - like traffic optimization, not ugly, practical ones like tight municipal budgets and urban sprawl.

andrewem 16 hours ago 2 replies      
I have to give Elon Musk credit - the average person would be hard-pressed to come up with even a single laughably impractical mode of transportation, but he's got two.
convivialdingo 5 hours ago 1 reply      
Not that tunnels are a boring idea, but if you handed me a couple of billion, I think we could solve public transportation using ultralight above ground systems. I would base it on a roller coaster type design using single or dual tracks suspended by high load anchored polls.

The car weights would be kept to a minimum, allowing tracks and supports to be sized much smaller, lowering cost and design requirements. The average car would weight less than a bus, and could travel at very high speeds.

Existing trains and subway systems are based off of hundred-year old freight train systems which were designed to transport thousands of tons of weight. This has a huge cost for subway and commuter train design. A modern subway train costs millions of dollars, weighs multiple tons, and is an immense engineering task.

By engineering a total target track and car weight of a few tons per spacing instead - this system would be far cheaper and easier to maintain.

Passenger cars would be designed to hold only a dozen people, and cars would be linked or unlinked as needed to increase capacity and efficiency. This design also allows the system to maintain extra cars of varying sizes to manage variable rider capacity. Rather than time tables, the system would run based on rider demand, maintaining a slight over-capacity to handle peaks. This is no different than the typical Uber-type demand based system.

On the typical street, such systems would only utilize a few square feet of space per block. They could also utilize existing utilities and would require minimal space for stations. Trains would exit the main track to prevent stalling the main rails while boarding passengers.

This system could also be extended to long-hail service as well into suburbs, or perhaps across states, It wouldn't have nearly the same difficulties of property right of way, environmental impact, and NYMBY - as it essentially has about the same impact as a typical electrical infrastructure. It could also be placed along existing roads and bridges to quickly build out the system.

Anyway - just an idea.

yongjik 8 hours ago 0 replies      
Ever been to New York or a similar city and watched people pouring out of a subway station at 8:30 am?

Now imagine every one of them is sitting in a sedan that is delivered out of an elevator, one by one.

According to Wikipedia, "Times Square42nd Street/42nd StreetPort Authority Bus Terminal" station has 206,247 riders on each weekday on average. If we have 100 elevators which can transport a car every five seconds, it will take 172 minutes to move all of them.

With more realistic numbers (an elevator usually doesn't go down and come back in five seconds) it will be more than a day.

fudged71 15 hours ago 1 reply      
I can't get over how impossibly dumb this idea is. It's a clever fantasy but it doesn't seem practical at all, from a cost or safety perspective... has he given a "first principles" talk about why any of this makes sense? By the time a system like this is built, all cars will be autonomous, so the self-driving sleds will be entirely redundant and it just becomes a super expensive road with no safety escapes.

Autonomous ground travel optimization, hyperloops, and air travel all work together to make a seamless system that make this seem redundant.

dmix 16 hours ago 3 replies      
Toronto really needs this. We have a raised express way that's right in front of our harbourfront and it makes the whole area noisy and ugly, blocking what should be a great view towards (great) Lake Ontario. Most importantly it takes up a ton of very valuable real estate.

A huge amount of condo development has been done right next to it and having lived in one the noise is a real problem. Living on the south-end of the highway towards the water almost feels like being cut off from the real city

You basically have to keep your window closed most of the time otherwise it's a constant drone. Night time is the worst as it goes quiet then occasionally a truck will come by and wake you up. The higher up you live the better, but that still leaves about half the units close to it.

So not only would it open up a lot of new property development but also significantly increase the value of existing properties.

The city has been considering burying the highway underground similar to Boston's tunneling project. But the Boston one ended up going billions over budget, so it is not an easy thing to do.

If they can bring the price down dramatically and perfect the concept I'm sure we'd be one of the first consumers for the tech.

namesbc 14 hours ago 0 replies      
This is a solved problem. It's called trains.

Visit Switzerland and you'll see that it is superfluous to build all this expensive infrastructure just to stick your personal car on a train.

Riding in a train is bigger, way more comfortable, and much cheaper.

Someone 15 hours ago 0 replies      
I would think that elevator has less capacity than a tunnel entry would have. The video compensates for that by having multiple such elevators, closely spaced, that presumable share an on-ramp. I'm not convinced that gives you enough capacity, because each car being lowered on that on-ramp blocks traffic for quite a while.

Also, entering this system leaves a big hole in the street where the carriage was. Before another car can enter, a new carriage must be brought up from below. That decreases capacity even further, except for the ideal situation where that carriage always carries a car. In the less than ideal sitautin, there's the added problem of getting that replacement carriage in place at just the right time (for example, at the end of the day in a business district)

accountyaccount 16 hours ago 3 replies      
This is the dumbest thing I've seen him produce. Reliable rapid public transit is better in dozens of ways.
blueintegral 15 hours ago 0 replies      
Now what if we add an Uber-like component to this and let people share/carpool together to reduce the number of cars above and below ground? Instead of tires that wear out, we could use steel on rails! Aaaand, we just re-invented the subway.
Animats 15 hours ago 1 reply      
The Disney version of this concept: [1]

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e0q_oP9TPD4&t=2479

Houshalter 14 hours ago 1 reply      
City streets have more than enough space for fast transpiration. We just don't use them efficiently. Congestion is a tragedy of the commons. It could be trivially solved by putting a high tax on cars using city streets. Then the only vehicles on the street would be those that transport multiple people or valuable goods. And they would have free reign with minimal congestion. (Also maybe put an extra tax on nonelectric vehicles, because there's much less justification for using them in a city.)

If you are willing to build entirely new infrastructure, like this project, there is so much you can do. The main reason self driving cars are taking so long is because they have to be able to do everything a human driver can do. Which is very hard. If you build tracks and sensors into the road itself, it could be much easier. You could have a city filled with fleets of small automated electric people movers.

sid-kap 14 hours ago 1 reply      
If anyone's looking for a good source of information on transportation costs, I highly recommend http://twitter.com/MarketUrbanism and http://twitter.com/2AveSagas. They cut through the BS of the mainstream media and politicians on transportation policy and give really intelligent opinions, particularly on zoning/land use and on the US's ridiculous transit costs.

(A lot of it is complaining about the ridiculous cost of New York's Second Avenue Subway, and complaining about how the media won't even mention that its cost was 3-5 times more per km than similar routes in London, Paris, and elsewhere in Europe. @MarketUrbanism also has a few other ticks:

* He aggressively argues that train systems in the US should save money by getting rid of conductors.

* Also, he argues that US buses should use Europe-style fare policing (with ticket inspectors) rather than requiring people to swipe as they board the bus.)

They're snarky and a bit hard to undeedia won't even mention that its cost was 3-5 times more per km than similar routes in London, Paris, and elsewhere in Europe. @MarketUrbanisrstand to the uninitiated, but they grow on you. I've learned a lot from them.

kristianc 14 hours ago 0 replies      
Oh jeez I wish someone could just invent some kind of underground mass transportation system able to efficiently transport lots of people from place to place in built up metropolitan areas. That'd be awesome. We could call it a 'Metro' or something.
gregpilling 9 hours ago 1 reply      
If I recall, this whole idea started as a result of traffic on the 405 or something.

This idea is only useful if it could deliver traffic volumes at meaninful percentage of the current 405 throughput.

wikipedia says "The freeway's annual average daily traffic between exits 21 and 22 in Seal Beach reached 374,000 in 2008" .

So how many car elevators to do 10% of that? How many car elevators to move 37,000 vehicles per day? Assuming a 1 minute cycle time, that would be 25 elevators running 24/7 evenly, with no rush hour (obvious unrealistic).

I think it is a scale problem, much like 3D printers won't upset the economics of high speed injection molding anytime soon.

Reason077 1 hour ago 1 reply      
Why the "pods"? Wouldn't it make more sense for self-driving electric vehicles (which can safely maintain separations from other traffic and travel at high speed on a narrow track) to use their own propulsion?

Apparently the concept behind The Boring Company is to reduce the cost of tunnelling, but surely the "pods" would add a great deal of cost to this system.

edpichler 11 hours ago 1 reply      
My opinion: moving a problem to other place you do not solve the problem.

We have too much cars, millions of people, each driving a ton of steel to move from place to place alone. Cars on the underground is not a good solution.

What world needs is automated and intelligent transport, and for the masses.

ThrustVectoring 15 hours ago 0 replies      
So it's roll-on roll-off rail, with one car per train rather than running on a schedule. Loading and unloading is also parallelized through elevators (though it'd likely be far better to build a ramp down to a station. Basically it'd be an underground angled parking lot, except the parking spots can put themselves on rails and go somewhere else.)
datahack 7 hours ago 0 replies      
Well if you figure a mile of urban freeway in an urban area is an easy 5 million per mile which makes it about a thousand bucks a foot. That doesn't include annexation or planning, just construction.

A tbm can make a tunnel for 19k a foot in the right environment (https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-high-tech-low-cost-world-of...), but that cost is dropping as more and more tbm projects since 2000 have driven the costs down.

So basically it's 20x as expensive to bury a highway as it is to build one on the surface.


But, when you look deeper, in urban areas there just aren't rights of way available to put new highways, and so you have huge slow costs that grind out projects. In addition, if you can find a place to put one, they are... ready... usually public infrastructure.

This is a private highway... private highways are a good idea. Take a look at https://mises.org/library/privatization-roads-and-highways

This is a bet on free market roads. That is a big bet, but goodness it's not a naive one.

I feel like Elon has some kind of cache of historic photos and documents from the late 60s and early 70s that he is just pulling pages out of.

Anyways, 20x more expensive is very doable and these roads could operate profitably in urban areas (and that's the opening, current cost). Oh, and the son of a gun bought a used tbm, which will save gobs of the cost. Oh, and it's for a ton of jobs (the cost of acquiring the Tbm is a large part of the cost of tunnels), and there is going to be a glut of tbm inventory in coming years.

Add it all up, and it sure isn't a "dumb idea" in some kind of intrinsic, obvious fashion.

Seems like a good bet actually.

tim333 5 hours ago 0 replies      
While this looks very cool I'm not sure how the economics would work out. The UK-France channel tunnel for instance which transports cars fairly rapidly through a 31 mile tunnel cost $21 bn to build and the tickets aren't cheap (~100 single) which works if the competition is a ferry but may not if it's just driving a bit. Maybe Musk will figure how to bring down the cost a few times.

I would have thought semi self driving cars platooning would be a cheaper and more practical way to beat the jams.

anonymous_iam 15 hours ago 1 reply      
Is it just a coincidence that Musk's main competitor in the space business is called "The Boeing Company"? I don't think so.
ben_w 15 hours ago 0 replies      
The whole thing is sufficiently bizarre that I just have to assume it's an excuse to develop something more useful.

If that something is cheap autonomous mining that can be sent to Mars to build a colony before anyone arrives, or a sneaky way to make very large underground nuclear bunkers that always have a surprisingly large number of random ordinary people in them, or just that Elon knows about a major valuable mineral deposit that nobody else is aware if yet, great. But if this really is just some self-driving pods that attach to your car and take you around at relatively high speeds, I don't see the "while underground" doing much for the congestion.

cerebrum 1 hour ago 0 replies      
Where is the advantage to the tried and tested metro? Transporting individual vehicles instead of people is much more complex, costly and will require more maintenance.
sonnhy 4 hours ago 0 replies      
This seems like a premium service, because you have to choose your destination somehow, and here comes some device that you have to install in your car (I'm referring to some kind electronic toll collection + navigation system).Also, the amount of people using this service has to be limited somehow.As the technology is presented in video, the input/output of the carriages is quite limited.Also, what about the rush hours?Everyone wants to get in, to go faster, so queue will be created, waiting for their turn.What will happen when more people, than the exit queue can handle, want to get out on the same exit/area? You will be redirected to another exit, far away as much as how many people wanted to get out in that area.
jacquesm 14 hours ago 1 reply      
What we really need to do is to figure out ways that reduce the need for all this transportation. When you look at it from a distance almost none of it makes sense. The only travel that really needs doing is people working with physical stuff, moving the goods themselves around and leisure travel (and that one is definitely not a must but it is hard to make a stand-in experience that is comparable to the real one). Most commuting is - or rather should be - totally useless.
mikojan 3 hours ago 0 replies      
In germany this is called a subway. We also fixed the problem with the queue and people being required to bring their vehicle to use this vehicle.
throwaway2016a 15 hours ago 3 replies      
When I heard about Boring Company I kind of just assumed it would be used for underground hyper loops. This feels kind of wrong.
vmasto 13 hours ago 1 reply      
Kinda off topic with what this is about but I have a few technical questions regarding the website (which is just a logo and a YouTube video embed on a white background):

- Why is it built with React?- Why does it need to load so much JavaScript?- Why does it need to load a custom web font? (There's exactly zero text from what I see).- Why does it need a CSS grid framework?

bcheung 15 hours ago 3 replies      
Telecommuting is a lot cheaper and easier.

Also, what is the point of those rails? Seems like self-driving cars would be much easier and require a lot less.

I think the robotic conveyer belt style design like seen in movies like iRobot would be cheaper and more convenient. Plus, having it so people don't walk to their cars means you don't have to worry about theft in parking garages as much either.

dynjo 11 hours ago 0 replies      
Whether Elon Musk can deliver on all of his ideas is almost an moot point. The important thing is that he is inspiring an entire generation to think outside the box and to believe that they really can change things.

For that alone he gets my gratitude.

nprecup 10 hours ago 0 replies      
I do like the idea of coupling self-driving car technology with taxi service and underground highways. When it comes to urban environments, automobiles and associated infrastructure takes up an enormous amount of the available space. It hurts resident's quality of life in many ways (noise, pollution, traffic, stress, less green space, etc). This is one of the reasons I am totally on board with investing heavily in mass transit underground (super excited that Seattle is finally getting their act together on this, which is my home). If the cost of developing underground transport infrastructure is driven down enough by this venture, we could improve traffic flow and reclaim some of the space on the surface as space for people, not cars. Couple that and a future with clean energy for cars and when using a self driving car service is more convenient than owning a car, we could create a transportation system that can get you anywhere, quickly, efficiently, and without transfers.

Self driving car services would allow us to reclaim huge portions of cities by reducing the need for parking spaces everywhere we go, and make driving safer. Tunnels for highways could replace interstates that cut cities in two, as well as provide more flexible routes. Electric cars could make our cities healthier. I think I see what Elon is trying to do...

placeybordeaux 14 hours ago 0 replies      
This seems pretty similar to Musk looking at everyone throwing away rockets and deciding to do something about it, however if you look at Seattle's big dig the cost of the machine was only 80 million out of 4.2 billion. He's going to have to find significant price reductions beyond just reusing a boring machine.
brosky117 15 hours ago 1 reply      
The tracks were surprising until I thought about all the idiots I encounter on regulars roads. Then it made perfect sense.
JepZ 3 hours ago 0 replies      
The funny thing about Elon is, that the lower the general chances for a successful undertaking are, the higher are the chances that he will succeed.

I'm just not sure if the entrance to the boring market is a high-risk venture. But at least the idea of building an underground network under existing cities is a very ambitious project.

buzzybee 16 hours ago 2 replies      
If you go and do something like that, why have the car at all?

Edit: To be a little less snarky, multi-modal transport of this form has been considered; it's one of the ways in which PRT systems have been proposed. But those systems don't also say "and now we build the highway underground."

hxta98596 10 hours ago 0 replies      
Interesting idea but very weird video. A couple thoughts:

1. "Boring Company" is such a great, funny and fitting name for a tunneling startup. FYI there are people who get so excited about a name they think is just perfect (or title for book or name for a yacht...) that they pursue creating it even though they aren't seriously into the idea. See: the better the name of the yacht, the less the owner uses it...

2. Agree with other comments the video verges on embarrassing. I don't think it helps Musk's cause much...Unless: (A) he subscribes to "there's no such thing as bad publicity" and/or (B) Musk in fact wants other entrepreneurs to see his crazy ideas as a catalyst to start their own copy-cat companies working on the same issue usually with their twist. He has made public comments (especially around the time when he open-sourced his patents) that support both (A) and (B) being true. See: all the new space, solar and hyperloop like companies that started in Musk's wake.

3. I don't think we should blindly give big-thinking entrepreneurs the benefit of the doubt. That has gone very poorly recently and historically. But I think we/the public/government regulators can support innovation and keep an eye on big-thinking well-funded entrepreneurs so they don't do something f'ing stupid full of negative externalities and tragedies of commons and tyrannies of small decisions etc...

4. This particular form of new tunneling as seen in the video might not happen. I hope it doesn't as there are serious engineering and public safety issues. But Musk has a point about needing to dig! AND Musk thinks very long term (the guy is working on going to Mars). Earth only has so much land, as human population increases, especially around cities, we can only build up or down. Both should probably be tried. I remember when Jeff Bezos said Amazon wants to try to deliver your packages by drones, and that Amazon also is out destroy the American economy. Ok he didn't say the second thing. But as for drones, people went nuts on both sides he said that but it's going forward. What if Musk's tunnels started off smaller, focused on delivering packages into and across cities, so not huge tunnels for people but more like conveyor belts for deliveries? There is a need for that or there will be soon. Would that be more palpable and would there be less averse reaction?

Have a good, relaxing weekend to all!

ares2012 14 hours ago 1 reply      
It's a great video, but one of the most impractical ideas I've ever seen. It would be cheaper to buy more buses and install congestion charges (fees to drive in cities during peak times).
sxates 16 hours ago 3 replies      
It seems crazy, but there's also some appeal in the idea of opting out of all the legacy infrastructure. If we could rebuild our roads from scratch today to serve a vehicle for the 21st century, what would we build? Probably something like this - standardized vehicles on automated roadways with built in electric connections that enable unlimited long-distance high-speed travel (though we'd just build this into cars instead of using 'carriers').

But it does seem pretty far out that we'd have tens of levels of tunnels for all this underground traffic. Hyperloops seem more plausible.

ggoss 14 hours ago 0 replies      
My bet: it's all about the lithium. The Gigafactory (located near a large domestic lithium cache) will soon consume a large fraction of the world's lithium output, and currently, Tesla is completely dependent on other companies to mine it.

My question: will the debris Musk will need to transport away from the next "beta-test" city happen to contain large quantities of lithium? Or will his current suppliers have a new source of (too-good-to-refuse) industrial machinery?

simplehuman 12 hours ago 2 replies      
Stupid naive question. If Musk cares so much about environment and all that, why not just build proper public transport for the bay area?
rmm 2 hours ago 0 replies      
As someone who has been in the UG mining industry for the past decade. This is very interesting.
chrismealy 15 hours ago 0 replies      
A subway, but you have to be in a car to use it. Brilliant.
marcell 7 hours ago 0 replies      
Engineering aside, how does this work out legally? How does a company get permission to dig tunnels under Lps Angeles, or any other American city?
agjacobson 14 hours ago 0 replies      
Ridiculously wasteful. Not needed. Optimize "self-driving in packs with prefiled flight plans." No new infrastructure required.
bmuppireddy 10 hours ago 0 replies      
I was just wondering if building bridges is more feasible idea than digging tunnels. Bridges will be easier to maintain, costs relatively cheaper, relatively easier to setup and we already have more experience in building bridges.
termie 9 hours ago 0 replies      
I wonder if you could make a big drill out of hundreds of hot swappable high torque Tesla motors that were intelligently geared and well mounted. Hot swapping battery packs from the underside of a car via automation was demonstrated years back by Tesla so learnings there could be used. Tesla uses a bunch of widely available 18650s for their packs and benefit from that same modularity, and I imagine big cost savings there for a drill that size even with a great deal of breakage in the array of motors.
walrus01 14 hours ago 0 replies      
Advancements in boring technology for small stuff (1.5 meter diameter utility tunnels) would also be a game changer in major urban areas. If you need to do cut and cover trenching to install vaults/manholes and duct for underground fiber in a major city nowadays, a several km distance project can run anywhere from $400 to $1000 per meter or more. Traffic closures, street closures, flagging, shoring of excavations, moving big construction equipment around on flatbed trailer in urban cores, etc.

To the extent that at $800/meter, a 4 km fiber path could cost $3.2m.

A bored small diameter service tunnel sized lined with concrete sections (basically a mini version of what the Bertha TBM in Seattle has just finished boring), sized to accommodate small electric carts that could be shared by multiple cables stuck to walls would be a game changer.

ziikutv 14 hours ago 1 reply      
Here's a question for those way smarter than me. Why is there a need for a platform?

Some pros:- If its a shitty, poor regulated car.. this will lead to more safety- Avoid adding extra gear (software/hardware) to the car

Cons:- Size restriction- Clean up and Maintenance- How do you ensure the car is in the platform securely?

rhcom2 15 hours ago 1 reply      
Isn't this a solution that becomes outdated with self driving cars?
london888 5 hours ago 0 replies      
I can't see how the economics of this would make it viable.
otto_ortega 14 hours ago 0 replies      
This is impractical in SO MANY levels...

Sorry Elon, I support 99% of your ideas, this one belongs to the other 1%...

tzs 5 hours ago 0 replies      
This is very confusing. There is nothing on the site but the video, and the video doesn't explain who they are and whether this is a serious project or just a design concept, and so on.

I think that this is a case where a secondary source submission, such as this one [1] to a TechCrunch story about this, is better than the primary source source submission, because the TechCrunch story actually tells us what the hell we are looking at. I think the moderators goofed by deciding that this submission was the one that should win.

Anyway, it's an Elon Musk company, and he talked about it at a recent TED talk.

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14222545

quux 14 hours ago 0 replies      
Given the time, cost, and complexity of Boston's big dig[1]; I'd be very surprised if there's a way to do this practically.

1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Dig

theprop 13 hours ago 0 replies      
I feel this could be useful as a kind of underground super-highway for some cities i.e. I need to get from one end of the city to the other end without stopping somewhere in between. Tunnels can get built today as opposed to drones or flying vehicles which are at least several years away. It could probably help traffic in some large cities.

If it could be done inexpensively and quickly it's interesting.

Some sort of a cross-country vacuum tube type tunnel that could let you go from NYC to LA in 15 minutes would be amazing and I think closer to the original hyperloop idea, but ridiculously expensive and engineering-wise beyond the initial goals of this project.

senthilnayagam 7 hours ago 0 replies      
If you ignore the boring and tunnel part. A autonomous high speed contraption to carry cars, yes human driven cars including the fuel driven ones is the actual innovation. This will definitely work in many cities now itself.
TD-Linux 6 hours ago 0 replies      
The rails are a rather interesting vote against batteries. Previously, the hyperloop designs were all gung-ho about loading batteries, however that's not shown here, implying third rail power.
Tiktaalik 8 hours ago 0 replies      
jpswade 5 hours ago 0 replies      
Interesting concept, but big, deep holes in the road seem like a health and safety nightmare.

Look forward to seeing the next iteration.

yueq 15 hours ago 0 replies      
Why does it even need the rails when the cards have autopilot built-in???
frik 57 minutes ago 0 replies      
This looks totally like a copy cat of old school books about electric cars and the future.

So nothing special at all, people had such visions for some decades.

Funny thing is projects like "Hyperloop", "Boring Company", etc all are already tried many decades ago in various places around the word, just marketed under a different name e.g. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pneumatic_tube

OrwellianChild 15 hours ago 8 replies      
Don't fully get the benefit of moving cars on rails vs. moving cars on wheels... Higher fixed costs to power the rail vs. just letting cars auto-drive with internal propulsion. What am I missing?
elorant 15 hours ago 0 replies      
You know, we have something like that and it's called Metro.
yourapostasy 12 hours ago 0 replies      
It would be interesting if TBC commercialized a subterrene [1], and drove down costs of building underground structures to a tenth or hundredth of current. But commercial mobile nuclear power is unfortunately not available.

[1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subterrene

jarboot 15 hours ago 0 replies      
I thought this was satire until I came to the comments.
perteraul 14 hours ago 0 replies      
Musk launches companies like designers post on Dribbble.

Too bad that only a small % of them really get developed - really love his creative consistency though.

nlh 15 hours ago 0 replies      
Side note/tangent: I think this is closer to what "flying cars" look like in the future vs. what's being attempted lately (which are really just increasingly small lift-based aircraft.)

Replace the underground rails with above-ground "rails" (perhaps electromagent based, when there's enough power to do so.)

vtange 15 hours ago 1 reply      
What if the tunnels themselves are congested? Wouldn't it mean a line of cars surface-side waiting for their turn?
kirian 14 hours ago 0 replies      
When I heard about this previously I wondered if it's a way of developing tunnel boring technology and expertise that would ultimately be useful on Mars. Underground tunnels and spaces are likely to be useful for a Mars colony and Musk is trying to figure out a way to get someone to fund it here first.
kirykl 14 hours ago 0 replies      
Where's everyone going in this automated universe? To the work from home office? To the online store?
webwalker 14 hours ago 0 replies      
Anyone else notice the mess of CSS and HTML? The document fully downloaded almost 900kb. In hosting costs alone this could have been down with bare fraction of that and supported 20x more traffic for the same cost. Anyway. Love the idea :D
jaimex2 9 hours ago 0 replies      
My guess is Space X came across a way to make tunnels really fast and cheaply. Now to interconnect the world underground.
xxgreg 13 hours ago 0 replies      
I like the idea of putting cars underground, because then you can build a human focused city above. But the video shows an urban wasteland of aboveground high-speed traffic and no people. WAT?
devopsproject 16 hours ago 0 replies      
this solves the "last mile" problem since your car will be at your destination
rb808 15 hours ago 2 replies      
On the downside, LA traffic sucks but at least you get the sun shining in. Spending your whole commute in tunnels seems a depressing way to live, even if its shorter.
orf 15 hours ago 1 reply      
How about... mass transit. You know, not needing to dig giant big tunnels and build the infrastructure to ferry individual people in huge cars around underground, because the roads are too congested with individual people in huge cars.

Dig big tunnels to ferry trains with people underground. Works pretty well.

musesum 7 hours ago 0 replies      
Maybe car tunnels are a gateway to terraforming small moons.
dahart 15 hours ago 0 replies      
The Boring Company:

...solving the hole problem

...it's underground

...making tools to take you down

adamsea 15 hours ago 0 replies      
What they don't show you is the dome keeping the air in, as this is the future society which Elon Musk will build on the moon.
Flemlord 13 hours ago 0 replies      
If successful, I assume this will be used to drill underground hyperloop tunnels. That's obvious, right?
Arizhel 15 hours ago 0 replies      
Instead of using all this space and energy to move cars around, it'd make more sense to just have small pods for 1-2 people, and transport the people around from point to point.

There's already a project to do just this, called SkyTran. It never gets any attention.

dflock 10 hours ago 0 replies      
Genius marketing/PR - just look at this huge thread ;)
amelius 12 hours ago 1 reply      
Curious: how many solar panels do you need to drive a tunnel boring machine?
dafidof 6 hours ago 0 replies      
Where do you get the energy to make this and then to maintain this? Entrophy? Hello?
akhilcacharya 15 hours ago 1 reply      
I'm still waiting on this to be revealed to be a part of the new Nathan For You season.
idlewords 15 hours ago 1 reply      
This is the kind of idea you come up with when you spend too long inhaling exhaust fumes on the 405.


megablast 12 hours ago 0 replies      
What a huge waste of resources for individual transport options.
lightedman 15 hours ago 0 replies      
This is not likely to work in SoCal. Our geology and prolific and scattered mineral/gas reserves simply would not allow for it. Maybe elsewhere, but not down here.
wireedin 11 hours ago 0 replies      
What happens to those holes once the car is lowered into the tunnel by those carriers? Can I pedestrian just jump into the hole and then sue the boring company?
panabee 14 hours ago 0 replies      
besides google, what are the best sites for learning about the challenges of underground mapping and the current state-of-the-art?
fiatjaf 14 hours ago 1 reply      
This is not boring at all. Finally someone found a way to monetize tunnels.

Someone is pointing to problems that seem obvious, I can see a lot too, but they've solved monetization.

renega3 13 hours ago 0 replies      
Obviously a terrible idea, but a mining/tunnel building company would be a reasonable outcome.
EJTH 13 hours ago 1 reply      
Makes more sense than the hyper loop to be honest...
Mattasher 16 hours ago 2 replies      
Giant hole opens up in street with no gate around it. Have they actually spent time thinking about this or is this a joke?
partycoder 13 hours ago 0 replies      
I wonder why having to transport a car and not just the passengers themselves.
bbcbasic 12 hours ago 0 replies      
Just... wow! How did they generate that monstrosity of a html document?
brentm 14 hours ago 0 replies      
I love it
givinguflac 8 hours ago 0 replies      
The monorail!
outsidetheparty 15 hours ago 0 replies      
"The Grimdark Slotcar Company"
thunderstrike 15 hours ago 1 reply      
This doesn't seem feasible at all. Especially the overview shot of the underground network, like it's all open air. Definitely wouldn't be possible like that under a major city.
mandeepj 15 hours ago 1 reply      
Whenever I am stuck in traffic, I am thinking about how can we have no traffic jams at all. My idea is similar to this but not in tunnels. I think we can do it on earth. Just have an elevated freeway that is reserved for this type of traffic where road is like a conveyor belt. I hope you got the idea.
wireedin 11 hours ago 0 replies      
What happens to those holes once the carrier lowers the car into the tunnel? Can I, pedestrian, just jump in there with the intention of discovering the future and then sue the Boring company? Well jks aside future is getting here sooner than we think.
Chinese Offer to Eat Denmarks Oyster Problem to Extinction nytimes.com
107 points by hvo  14 hours ago   51 comments top 11
cperciva 12 hours ago 2 replies      
Although it sounds like the "eat the oysters" solution here is a joke, the idea of using cuisine to tackle the problem of invasive species is not new. The Lionfish is native to Indo-Pacific waters but is now established as an invasive species in the Caribbean; the NOAA and partner agencies enlisted the help of chefs to publish recipes for cooking these fish, and even convinced the Catholic church to suggest that their Colombian parishioners eat lionfish on Fridays.
Laforet 6 hours ago 2 replies      
Am I the only person not keen to eat Danish shellfish? The Baltic is heavily polluted by all sorts of heavy metals and persistent organic contaminants, and filter feeders are known to accumulate these substances.

In fact, most of the Baltic fish catch already ended up getting exported to Asia as fish meal because it is illegal to use them as feed or fertiliser in EU if the final product is intended for human consumption.

liuyanghejerry 10 hours ago 2 replies      
Fun fact, in Chinese recipe, most of the Oyster species can be cooked in similar ways. So it's easy to let Chinese accept this one. One the other hand, Oyster seems pretty healthy since it contains protein but has few fat and sugar, which amuse young people nowadays.

However, since Chinese people already have several oyster-like species locally, importing this one could probably hurt local fish-men's interests.

nebabyte 11 hours ago 0 replies      
> The post instantly electrified Chinese netizens, who always love to flaunt their centuries-long passion for diversifying food resources. > The proposed solution was as follows: Denmark can invent an 'eater's visa' for Chinese visitors, offering unlimited entries within 10 years for stays of up to a month each visit. The oysters will be extinct within five years." > Ha! Five years? Five months is enough," one user commented.

It's heartening, in a way, to see how fluidly certain interpersonal relations can move across language/culture barriers in this day and age. We really are all alike in many ways after all; maybe it's not yet time to give up on a post-internet era as one that can reach greater heights of intercultural empathy.

Assuming legislation doesn't gut the net.

gtirloni 12 hours ago 0 replies      
Seems related to Chinese people looking for imported sea food due to water pollution:


jameslk 13 hours ago 6 replies      
I don't quite understand... Do the locals or larger Nordic/European populace not eat as many oysters? Why the Chinese versus any other nationality?
nxcho 12 hours ago 2 replies      
I'm not sure the environmental impact of fishing an invasive species to extinction is positive compared to the problems the species itself causes. Especially if you want that venture to be profitable.
pyrophane 8 hours ago 2 replies      
> "...but for many Chinese, they would not want to eat the oysters without grilling them with mashed garlic and chili sauce.

At first that sounded gross (I, I guess like the danish, prefer them raw with a little lemon), but now I kind of want to try it. I think I'm going to try to find a place in NYC that serves oysters this way.

dajohnson89 7 hours ago 0 replies      
If oysters are so abundant, why are they so expensive where I live, near the Chesapeake Bay?
Safety1stClyde 11 hours ago 1 reply      
The Chinese created famine in their country by eliminating sparrows as part of their so-called "Great Leap Forward". It turned out that the sparrows were eating pest insects. Now the Chinese offer to gobble these oysters. Can they be trusted?
nonamechicken 1 hour ago 0 replies      
If someone would do the same for India's stray dog problem, our life would be so much better.
Debian 9 not including support for UEFI Secure Boot phoronix.com
107 points by aruggirello  14 hours ago   52 comments top 8
vbernat 12 hours ago 1 reply      
Direct link to the announce: https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2017/04/msg00.... The Phoronix article doesn't bring anything.

The reasons of forfeiting secure boot support can be found in the following bug report: https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=820036 (look at the list of blocked bugs). The main blocker seems to be this one: https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=821051 (and the root cause seems to be the lack of time from the FTP masters).

poizan42 10 hours ago 3 replies      
Secure Boot is utterly broken (for general purpose pcs at least) anyways. I can just take an old windows kernel and boot with a configuration that loads a driver with a known vulnerability (a certain gpu manufacturer might be a good place to look) and a script that use it to run kernel mode code that does whatever it wants.

Newer Windows kernels generally blacklists drivers with know vulns, but you can just use an older version, and practically speaking old windows kernels can't be blacklisted because then people's install media that they might have paid for would stop working.

thomastjeffery 12 hours ago 1 reply      
For those of you who glossed over the title, It's secure boot that is now unsupported, not UEFI. UEFI is still supported.
misterdata 4 hours ago 1 reply      
So when will Debian 9 be released anyway? I can't seem to find any planning on the Debian website...
mrmondo 10 hours ago 3 replies      
I wonder if it'll actually finally have useful a SELinux implementation and policies like they promised they'd have before releasing Jessie (8), or remotely up to date clustering software such as pacemaker, corosync, ha resource agents and DRBD which is pretty much unusable in any modern in 7, or 8. Jessie (8) was such a flop of a release so many people and business's I know that were loyal to Debian moved to CentOS 7 + EPEL/Elrepo with great success and given how hostile the Debian community (mainly packing community) has become over recent years and how helpful and inclusive Fedora and RHEL's community and bug tracking ecosystem has become I can't see many of us moving back.
ergo14 14 hours ago 2 replies      
A pity - however I always disabled UEFI boot for my partitions... At least the good news is that the release is very near now.
giancarlostoro 13 hours ago 4 replies      
Anyone know what other distros support UEFI? I hope Debian supports it in a later release I wouldn't mind going back to my second distro ever (first one was Slackware, not an option for me these days).
lukaszjb 12 hours ago 0 replies      
When Debian 9 (aka Stretch) goes stable then time to install sid:)
Organizing the world of fonts with AI medium.com
12 points by brudgers  4 hours ago   2 comments top
nerdponx 28 minutes ago 1 reply      
This is really fun and interesting work, but it also goes to show how diluted the term/buzzword "AI" really is.

This is barely even machine learning (what exactly is being "learned" here?). 5 years ago this would have been "dimension reduction and clustering".

Rod Dreher's Monastic Vision newyorker.com
11 points by lermontov  4 hours ago   1 comment top
juliangamble 49 minutes ago 0 replies      
> It asks why there arent more places like St. Francisvilleplaces where faith, family, and community form an integrated whole.

> Drehers answer is that nearly everything about the modern world conspires to eliminate them. He cites the Marxist sociologist Zygmunt Bauman, who coined the term liquid modernity to describe a way of life in which change is so rapid that no social institutions have time to solidify. The most successful people nowadays are flexible and rootless; they can live anywhere and believe anything. Dreher thinks that liquid modernity is a more or less unstoppable forcein part because capitalism and technology are unstoppable.

Paranoid Mode Compromise Recovery on Qubes OS qubes-os.org
54 points by jerheinze  11 hours ago   8 comments top 2
floatboth 1 hour ago 0 replies      
> I dont believe that advances in so called safe languages or anti-exploitation technology could significantly change this landscape. These approaches, while admittedly effective in many situations, especially against memory-corruption-based vulnerabilities, cannot address other broad categories of software vulnerabilities, such as security bugs in application logic, nor stop malicious (or compromised) vendors from building backdoors intentionally into their software.

True. But never underestimate how common memory corruption bugs are. It's fucking embarrassing just how common they are. Look at the Project Zero tracker. Just the first page of the newest issues: "double-free", "out-of-bounds write", "use-after-poison", "use-after-free", "kernel double free", "kernel memory corruption due to off-by-one", "kernel heap overflow", "kernel uaf due to double-release", "heap-buffer-overflow" And it's these bugs that often lead to the scariest situation for regular users, "I just visited a web page and my browser got pwned".

hackuser 8 hours ago 2 replies      
An excellent point that applies to almost any system:

The inconvenient and somehow embarrassing truth for us the malware experts is that there does not exist any reliable method to determine if a given system is not compromised.

Invasion of the Hardware Snatchers: Cloned Electronics Pollute the Market ieee.org
43 points by jnord  13 hours ago   22 comments top 5
userbinator 9 hours ago 1 reply      
But they may also host unwanted or even malicious software, firmware, or hardwareand the buyer may not know the difference, or even know what to look for.

Alternatively, the clones are often the ones which will omit the user-hostile DRM and such. Thus you get HDMI splitters which don't actually re-encrypt HDCP, DVD players which don't implement region restrictions or the "unskippable" bits (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_operation_prohibition ) , Androids with unlocked bootloaders by default, etc.

Of course, to an organisation like the IEEE, who have always appeared to be pro-DRM, pro-IP, pro-copyright, that would probably be considered "malicious"...

The whole safety/security argument, while true, I think is somewhat overblown and these days increasingly used to justify an authoritarian agenda.

mjevans 5 hours ago 0 replies      
On the first pair I called it correctly... but I don't think I could have called it correctly without knowing there was only one fake.

What if there were no fake, or both were fake, and they lied to see if anyone called them on it? Honestly all I was basing it on was the components being SLIGHTLY off (bad QC).

That's why I couldn't pick out which of the second set were a fake, sure there were differences, but there wasn't any visually obvious detriment to those differences.

rebootthesystem 5 hours ago 4 replies      
Everyone posting comments either defending clones or saying they are not bothered by them (or that they are cool because they foster innovation) has obviously never taken everything they owned, quit their job and even gone as far as mortgaging their family home to develop a product in pursuit of an idea.

Do that. Then come back and tell me how it feels to have some fucker in China clone your product.

I've had the experience of having a company out of Korea do a product that copied 75% of one of ours and introduce it into the US at half the price. Nearly fucking killed my business after investing nearly a million dollars and a year of R&D.

The "D" part is much easier than the "R" part, which is where reverse engineering has a huge advantage. You do all the "R" and then they copy and do some "D".

Not only that, you also identified a market opportunity for a product, which is massive. Ideas are worth shit. Opportunities are worth gold.

nraynaud 11 hours ago 4 replies      
remember that cheap clones also foster innovation, by spreading tools that would be completely inaccessible to people without money, that's how computers revolutionized the world.

With some cheap fake arduinos, cheap fake Saleae, and cheap fake FTDI chips, you can start prototyping while others are still counting their money to buy a $35 arduino. When you've established your working capital, you will buy brand-name stuff.

PhantomGremlin 2 hours ago 0 replies      
I deeply empathize with people who've had their IP stolen by offshore entities.

But, especially with big manufacturers like Cisco (mentioned in the article), a lot of the problems are of their own doing. There is an ancient proverb: as you sow, so shall you reap.

So, what the fuck did those big companies think would happen to their designs once they shipped them off to China to manufacture? Or, even better, after they subcontracted the actual design of their products to offshore entities?

Surprise ... surprise ... surprise ... there are plenty of smart engineers and plenty of greedy capitalists to be found all over Asia. Why did you give them such a head start with your products? The stories are legion of factories making legitimate products during the day and counterfeits of those very same products at night.

Cloning electronics is hard compared to consumer goods. Why is it that a Coach handbag can be purchased so cheaply in China? Maybe because Coach does their manufacturing in Asia? Maybe because if a handbag can be made in Asia for $50, there are plenty of people who would be happy to purchase it for $100 instead of the $1000 that Coach is selling it for?

Ask HN: How do you keep improving?
190 points by Superleroy  10 hours ago   66 comments top 40
itamarst 9 hours ago 5 replies      
1. You need to recognize when you're not learning, for one thing. If it's easy, you're not learning. You need to push yourself into the zone of discomfort, where you feel clumsy and have a hard time. Now you're learning.

2. Find a mentor. Lacking that, find e.g. talk of someone explaining some hard techniques and then try to follow the advice. Even and especially if it feels clumsy at first.

(More on those two here: https://codewithoutrules.com/2017/04/17/learning-without-a-m...).

3. Switch to a new job where you'll be exposed to new things. try to find a job where people do code review, feedback is how we learn faster.

4. Learn how to learn: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FKTxC9pl-WM

5. Reflect on your mistakes, try to find what cues you missed and what you should look for next time. I've been doing this on weekly basis (you can read the results at https://softwareclown.com) and I've learned a huge amount from figuring out underlying cause of what I did wrong.

wallflower 17 minutes ago 0 replies      
I saved this comment from jlcfly from an AskHN that was answered a long time ago.

"Teach them to be better than you. That may seem counterproductive. I have a type A personality, and I have decent coding skills. I've been in your situation a number of times. I also know there's these mythical expert developers out there that I can't seem to find (or afford). So, what to do? A few years ago I realized that if I continue down this path, I'll end up with some serious health issues due to the stresses that come along with having a reputation for being a really good developer.So, I decided that instead of searching for developers better than me, I would teach developers I work with how to BE better. It's taken a lot of patience. And it's taken me quite a bit to LET GO of my way of doing things. I had to take my ego out of the picture. (VERY hard to do.)Nowadays, I realize that developers don't have to BE better than me. I simply have to ALLOW them to do what they do without being so obsessive about it. Turns out, even junior developers really CAN do good work. They just need a little guidance that only comes with experience, and then they need me to get out of their way."


Joeri 5 hours ago 0 replies      
Teach. Find people to mentor, find user groups to present to. There is no better way to learn more about subjects you're superficially familiar with than to teach them. Pick subjects where you think you're an expert, and prove to yourself that you weren't, or pick subjects that you would like to know more about and try to understand them well enough to explain to someone in 45 minutes.

You will be terrible at this at first, but teaching is also a skill that takes lots of practice to acquire.

I would also agree with what others said: stop comparing yourself to others, no good will come of it. There is always someone better, there is always someone worse. It doesn't matter. Set a standard for yourself and meet your own standard.

P.S. If you're looking for a good resource to learn presenting from, I would recommend macsparky's presentations field guide.

xealgo 7 hours ago 1 reply      
I for one will often (and usually naturally) befriend the most talented developers I work with. Talking code often and bouncing ideas off of them will really help you see where you're lacking or where you can improve.

Learning new languages and different paradigms can also play a huge role in how you approach future problems. Go to glot.io and play around with a handful of languages you've never touched.

Read up on various best practices and style guides. Read blogs on architecture, design patterns, etc. I read probably 5-10 hacker news articles daily, but I also watch many videos on youtube such as pretty much anything by Martin Fowler, Rob Pike or any of the other greats.

Code stuff outside of your comfort zone. If you're a web developer, try writing some games. If you're a game developer, write a web server or a blazing fast load balancer that handles TCP/UDP sockets and HTTP. I code random shit all of the time just to gain some exposure even if I'm never likely to do related work in the future. I probably have a few dozen Go programs I've developed just because I was curious how something worked.

I've been programming for over 17 years starting with C++ when I was 13. Over the years, I've developed stuff in C/C++, Python, Ruby, Lua, C#, Java, JS, TypeScript, SQL, Dart and Go for the past 3 years. Each language has given me new insights in how to tackle problems that knowing say just C++ alone would not have lead me to.

TLDR: Exposure!!, Books, Blogs and LOTS of bouncing ideas off of other developers.

johnfn 7 hours ago 1 reply      
I work on progressively larger and larger apps. This teaches me more and more about coding in the large, in a very practical sense. Every time I learn about something new, my learning is explicitly motivated by the problems that I ran into while implementing the large app.

I started by making a reasonably conplex TODO app, which took a few months. This taught me about the importance of declarative (popularized by React) style programming, and MVC separation.

Then I moved on to building a Vim extension for visual studio code. This took about 6 months, and taught me a bunch about programming larger apps and keeping them bug free. I also learned a lot about open source maintenance. I learned why Redux-style architectures are important.

Then I moved on to working on a fully featured pixel editor. This has been my toughest app of all. I've been working on it for about 4 months full time at this point, and I've learned so much about canvas perf, js perf, the importance of end to end testing, ... I could go on for a very long time. :)

And this is all a warmup for an even larger app I haven't started on...

This approach seems to have worked well for me, and I'd recommend a similar style approach of working your way up from smaller programs to larger apps. You learn lessons from smaller apps that will save you a lot of time when coding larger apps.

vikingcaffiene 8 hours ago 0 replies      
Dev with 10 years experience here. Self taught.

There are couple ways I keep up on things (keeping in mind that there are no absolutes and everyone is different).

First, I identify subjects that are both interesting to me and have traction with the developer community. Forums like this one are generally a good sniff test. I then subscribe to mailing lists that deal with that tech. I clip a lot of articles and code snippets to a datastore (Evernote in my case) where I can peruse my notes later. I install said tech and build little micro apps and generally futz around and have a good time. The key here is to be interested in the tech you are trying to learn. Maybe you are bored with C/C++? Whats the harm in looking at something totally different like Ruby or NodeJS? They might give you ideas or a different way of looking at things. Whatever it is, try to have fun. Learning doesn't have to be all drudgery.

When I want to take a deep dive (usually after a good bit of research mentioned above) I find a job working with the tech in question. Nothing will force me into gaining a deep deep understanding of a technology or concept like getting thrown into the deep end. After a year or two at that job, I emerge a ninja level dev in that area. Not a bad deal if you ask me. If that approach is too extreme maybe you can just set up a side project or contribute to open source? Anything that forces you to sit in a chair and produce functional code in the manner with which you want to learn is going to accelerate your learning in ways you never thought possible. Good luck!!

beat 8 hours ago 1 reply      
Start by comparing yourself to yourself, not to others. Don't worry about matching others for their strengths. Just be a better you tomorrow than you were yesterday.

Next, distinguish between depth and breadth. Are you a generalist by nature, or a specialist? I'm a total generalist. I've achieved basic competence in a truly shocking variety of different subjects, but the main thing I'm an expert at is being a generalist. I've gotten very good at picking up new skills whenever I'm interested in them.

Other people are specialists. They find something they're passionate about, and they get good at it. Really good. They go deep. They may not know a whole lot of things, but that one thing they know, they know so well it's hard to even comprehend from the outside.

So are you a generalist by nature, or a specialist? Do you want to be one or the other? Pick a direction and start walking.

mikekchar 8 hours ago 0 replies      
For me the biggest thing is always to question what I think I know. It's easy to get into a local maxima. You often need to take one step backwards to take 2 steps forwards.

In practical terms that means that you need to change the way you write code. And that means practice. Katas are good, but you have to force yourself to do it differently than you would normally.

Here's an example of something I did recently: https://github.com/ygt-mikekchar/es6-monad-challenge/blob/ma...

This code is clearly insane. You would never do it this way in production. Or would you? In reality, how do you know what the advantages and disadvantages are if you never try it?

But small toys and katas are not enough. Architecture and design requires practicing on a big scale. That means side projects that you have complete control over. It's unfortunate, but this stuff takes time. If you like programming it's not bad, though :-)

Always get ideas from other people. Read books and blogs to get more ideas. Then go nuts. The hardest part is to have to courage to absolutely suck. Picking insane things to do will help with that because you don't have the feeling that it must turn out good in the end. It's insane.

Hope that helps!

huangc10 8 hours ago 0 replies      
I'm currently reading Zero to One by Peter Thiel. Here is one thing interesting he mentions.

To grow, one can either scale vertically or horizontally (paraphrased).

Now if we apply this to your situation , scaling horizontally would be learning new languages, ie. Objective-C, Javascript etc. I'm assuming you're not really about this but you want to scale vertically.

If scaling vertically is the case, then what you really want to focus on is doing something either 1) other people have not done before yet and/or 2) do something that is 10x better than what is already out there. I don't do too much C/C++ dev but maybe think about embedded, OS, GPU, etc.

If you accomplish 1) and/or 2), then you can truly master C/C++ dev. My 2 cents.

proximacentauri 9 hours ago 0 replies      
For me it's a iterative process of read->apply->get stuck->read->apply.

I focus each morning on working on the number one thing I have to do that day, in the afternoon I can attend to other less important tasks.

Josh Kaufman has some good tips (https://first20hours.com/).

Also as John Sonmez (https://simpleprogrammer.com/) would say - trust the process. Don't focus on immediate results, focus on the process of reaching your end goal

jsmeaton 7 hours ago 0 replies      
Find an open source project that interests you, and start helping. Even better if it's a project you use and you're aware of some sore spots. Start small, with documentation issues or easy pickings tasks. This is to get you familiar with the project and contribution processes. Then work your way up.

By familiarizing yourself with a large codebase, you'll start to pick up the patterns in use. Having your code reviewed by project owners is a great way to get others to help you improve.

Some projects and communities are better than others. Some can be hostile or quiet, others can be welcoming and active.

Don't just start by throwing PRs at random projects and hoping someone bites. Managing an open source project is work and initially you want to be causing as little extra work for the maintainers as possible.

spangry 2 hours ago 0 replies      
What i found out is that i rarely take the time to lern something in depth because i mostly learn stuff to use it and tutorials seem to move at a way to slow pace, so i mostly skip them... i started out with C/C++ development but am unable to keep up with the new standards. I see people write really nice code but whenever i sit down i just keep reusing what i know.

Is this such a bad thing? Maybe I'm just trying to justify my own lack of motivation, but I've never been able to learn anything related to programming, or computers in general, unless I had a reason to. The times that I've learned something have been when there was a tangible goal, or I was working on some personal project that I was interested in.

So I guess if you want that boiled down into a (highly inelegant) technique, it would be: have some personal project that you want to do and stumble through it; by the end you'll have learned a bunch of new stuff. Note: I wouldn't recommend doing this in a professional or safety-critical context...

yodsanklai 3 hours ago 0 replies      
Here some ideas that worked for me:

- online classes. Especially those from actual universities rather than Coursera. Coursera is great but often they target a larger audience and the content may be simplified. Personally, I learned a lot from MIT classes (especially distributed systems and operating systems). They have projects that are challenging and really interesting.

- Competitive programming. I found competition in general to be a great way to improve. It's stimulating and there are many resources available. The downside is that it's hard and can be depressing. For instance, it takes me 10 hours to solve the problems in an easy code jam round when some 18 year kids solve them in an hour. Depending on what you want to learn, there are different type of competition. For instance, code jam / codeforces for shorter type of problems. Google hashcode for slightly larger optimization problems. Kaggle for machine learning. I'm sure there are many others.

Actually, learning stuff and improving is the easy part (you just need free time). There are so many resources. The question is more deciding what to learn, and how can it be useful.

rafark 7 hours ago 1 reply      
Read other people's projects. Read books on design, architecture, patterns.

Deeply analyse those reads without ever touching a computer. If I feel the need to write code I usually write it in a paper sheet and analyse it.

JesseAldridge 8 hours ago 1 reply      
I actually wrote a tool that takes a screenshot of my desktop every five seconds: https://github.com/JesseAldridge/screen_recorder

Once in a while I go back and review some of the work I did that day and look for ways to improve.

contingencies 5 hours ago 0 replies      
1. Maintain a system long term. This teaches you the benefits of alternative approaches the hard way.

2. Change languages. Forcing yourself to use a completely different paradigm can sometimes bring about architectural epiphanies.

3. Focus on data and communications instead of processing.

4. Meditate on and draw inspiration from timeless wisdom (eg. a good fortune database like mine @ https://github.com/globalcitizen/taoup)

theparanoid 8 hours ago 0 replies      
Become a domain expert. Examples: networking (IP6, BGP, ...), GPU (graphics, cuda), distributed computing (k8s).

Few people are actual experts in a domain. It takes years to do.

ankurdhama 6 hours ago 0 replies      
Stop learning tools, starts solving problems and in the process learn to think in different ways. Learn the fundamentals of computing as everything else is just a new name for the old idea.
mike-cardwell 5 hours ago 0 replies      
I used to get out of bed half an hour before I set off for work. Now I get up two hours before I set off for work, have some breakfast and do some learning. I think it's helped me to have a set period of time where I study/practice/tinker each day. It means I don't feel guilty about "wasting" my evenings as well.
return0 4 hours ago 0 replies      
What makes you think that you are not improving? Programming is a craft where you can make pretty things with old tools as well as new. Do you feel your code works less well, or achieves less than the ones you 're comparing to? Or are you just anxious because you skip learning the newer trends?
enraged_camel 8 hours ago 0 replies      
In our industry (and in some others, such as medicine) learning never stops. If you stop learning, you will eventually (and in fact rather quickly) become obsolete. My advice would be to set aside a certain amount of time every week (5-10 hours) to play with new technologies. Even if you don't master them, they can still give you valuable insights or teach you new paradigms.

There will always be someone who knows more than you or is more skilled. Don't let that bother you. Instead, use those people as role models.

telebone_man 9 hours ago 0 replies      
How to learn how to learn!

Personally, I used to find it tough to learn things I couldn't immediately apply. That's because I would try and commit them to memory in a way I could immediately retrieve them if required. So spawned a path of memory learning techniques... flash cards... ugh...

Then I was watching a Derren Brown show (a British 'mentalist') who taught a guy to memorise hundreds of books so that on command he could read out the content of any given book, any given page and any given number.

The individual would read the books in a particular way (picture dragging your fingers down in a v shape across the page). When asked to reiterate the content, it was very important that he just trusted his gut. And he got it right every time.

The key takeaway for me was that it's equally important to learn how to retrieve knowledge.

Slight tangent here, I also remember reading about how Steve Jobs was able to 'think outside the box' and come up with seemingly new ideas. And the suggestion was he was just good at retrieving knowledge through a confidence of confidence in himself and a non-pressured environment.

Hope that gives you something to think about!

ak93 8 hours ago 0 replies      
Start by becoming aware of yourself. Being mindful and aware of your own existence, weakness, strength gives a profound energy to move forward. Once awareness becomes a second nature, you wont see failure as failure nor success as success. It will become a journey.

I am rebuilding myself with this process and taking inspiration from Bhagwad Gita for that.

sridharmanohar 7 hours ago 0 replies      
I have been a developer (primarily Java) for 9yrs now. But I recently started learning PHP and now I am learning Python. I wanted to learn these languages not because I had to but because I wanted to. And the best way to learn, per me is to pickup a book or a website tutorial, go through all of it in one go and then come back and do some mini projects for yourself which will enforce you to apply the concepts that you learnt. It won't be easy in the beginning but I find this a better way to learn any new programming language or any new concept. Because this way you are actually putting your theory into practice and when you are doing so you also have the big picture in mind.
erkj4njfdm 2 hours ago 0 replies      
By learning things in-depth and by having the attention-span and learning-wisdom to not skip slow-seeming basic tutorials.
newnaivedev 8 hours ago 0 replies      
I read a article recently [0], and I think you may like reading it.From my username you can see what I'll post here is really naive. But what works for me is failing. Failing sets a precise goal of where is my limit (be it in knowledge, or something else). So keep trying, keep failing and soon you'll find you keep improving. Other than that, a good mentor would help a lot, don't be afraid of asking questions when you don't understand something or think the person can help you improve.

[0] - http://www.daedtech.com/how-developers-stop-learning-rise-of...

planto 1 hour ago 0 replies      
> How do you guys keep learning new stuff?

You need a problem to solve. A problem which really matters to you.

> How do you keep improving?

Surround yourself with exceptional people. You will be the product of your five closest peers.

KerryJones 8 hours ago 0 replies      
Two thoughts from someone without a mentor (if you can get one, do that) -- you asked how I (or we) keep improving, but my first thought is you seemed to figure out your own problems: 1) "...and tutorials seem to move at a way to slow pace, so i mostly skip them".

Either you're doing the wrong tutorials, or give them more credence.

2)What I do:

i) Keep myself exposed to what is out there (Hacker News, Blogs, Twitter)

ii) Make sure I am always reading a book (audio books, usually)

iii) Be aware of the next wave of tech -- what is bleeding edge? (current answer: Machine Learning, VR/AR, Self-Driving Cars, Blockchain)

iv) Find resources to learn them: Coursera, Udacity, local colleges courses, meetup groups.

maxxxxx 8 hours ago 0 replies      
I don't think it's about learning new stuff. Find a really hard problem and work through it. That's how I learned the most. I am not talking about one month projects but something that takes a year or more. In a project of that size a lot mistakes you made at first come back to you over time and you can improve.

My most difficult projects have been done with C++ and took years. That experience still gives me an advantage even with JavaScript because I have developed pretty good instinct about what probably will work or not.

jamesrcole 7 hours ago 0 replies      
From your description, it sounds like you're lacking a certain amount of discipline. You mention things you know you should be doing that you're not ("i rarely take the time to lern something in depth", "whenever i sit down i just keep reusing what i know").

I also think that having high standards is important if you want to keep improving.

So they're two general areas I'd suggest working on.

jonnycoder 7 hours ago 0 replies      
Try pluralsight. As someone who learns visually and understand why things are the way they are, it is been a godsend.
robojamison 8 hours ago 0 replies      
Occasionally, a couple of times a year, I will challenge myself to learn some new technology and I will utterly immerse myself in that technology until I have a working basic knowledge of it. It is how I learned Emacs. It is also how I learned Vim when I grew tired of Emacs' shenanigans.
gordon_freeman 8 hours ago 0 replies      
Just an FYI: there is a great Coursera MOOC on learning how to learn: https://www.coursera.org/learn/learning-how-to-learn

Simply awesome.

z3t4 4 hours ago 0 replies      
when you have a problem. first solve it yourself. get practical experience and make errors. then read about how other people solved it. make a better solution. write a blog post about it. share your code. argument on forums. teach it to others.
sAbakumoff 8 hours ago 1 reply      
Start meditating and stop worrying about improvements.
cookiecaper 5 hours ago 0 replies      
Find something interesting. If you want to be engaged, it has to be something that engages you. We spend most of our "mandatory effort" energy at school or work. If you have a side project or hobby, it will only happen if it's something you find at least somewhat interesting. Doesn't mean there can't be rote portions, but in general, it should be something you want to do.

Find a small task that you want to accomplish, identify something you want to learn along the way. Proceed to accomplish said task with the new tools.

zghst 6 hours ago 0 replies      
you are an interesting writer
briantakita 6 hours ago 0 replies      
Practice meta thinking. How can I improve what I'm doing right now? A great side effect is it also reduces boredom on rote tasks.
test12345678oop 6 hours ago 0 replies      
Learn Haskell.
surrey-fringe 8 hours ago 2 replies      
Vue Loop Infinite scrolling github.com
56 points by bgian  13 hours ago   28 comments top 13
yourapostasy 0 minutes ago 0 replies      
Are there implementations of infinite scrolling that delete DOM elements outside of a specified range of the viewport? Then the scrolling still appears responsive to within X pages of scrolling from the current viewport, but any pages beyond that range are actually inserted in on demand when the viewport moves towards them, saving browser memory at the cost of bandwidth and computational time on both the browser and server sides.
steinuil 4 hours ago 2 replies      
This just looks like bad UI to me.On my desktop browser I often press End to get somewhere near the end of the page, here if you do that it just goes back up.

If I accidentally scroll to the end while reading something I can't scroll back up, I'll have to scroll down to the end and hope I don't scroll too far and trigger the loop again.

conradk 12 hours ago 4 replies      
I tried viewing the Look Studios website on Firefox, scrolling down with the touchpad. The website skips over some content sections and once I get to the page footer, the page suddenly scrolls extremely slowly. To the point where it looks like my browser crashes every time I reach the bottom of the page.
Xoros 8 hours ago 2 replies      
I tried the live demo on Safari on iPhone. When it arrives to the end (with the logo) it's starts flickering around 10 times. Then you can continue scrolling.

I don't know if it's on purpose (distracting effect while doing your stuff). But it's more looking like a bug.

Despite that, works like a charm.

JosephSmith127 3 hours ago 0 replies      
Thanks for all your feedback! I'll be taking it all in and making some improvements today! Expect an update to the repo and package soon
aleksandrm 12 hours ago 1 reply      
Title is a bit misleading, this is not an actual infinite scrolling as we generally know it by, but a looped scrolling, as the name suggests.
jazoom 1 hour ago 0 replies      
This is pretty cool
junnan 2 hours ago 1 reply      
This actually looks really nice in my android chrome. It might be useful in some cases.
duke360 3 hours ago 0 replies      
just a little heads up: it looks shitty on a logitech free-wheeled mouse
peterc1731 3 hours ago 0 replies      
Works like a dream for me in chrome, seems like a nice way to make a simple static site feel a bit more individual and interesting. nice job.
neotek 5 hours ago 1 reply      
But... why?
petters 4 hours ago 0 replies      
Works well for me on mobile Chrome. But loads way too slowly.
homulilly 5 hours ago 0 replies      
I'm in chrome and uh, this doesn't seem to actually do anything?
El Salvador bans metal mining in world first phys.org
179 points by seycombi  16 hours ago   99 comments top 12
ShannonAlther 14 hours ago 2 replies      
This has apparently been in the works for a while[0] in response to a ridiculous percentage of El Salvador's fresh water being poisoned by mining runoff. Good for them, this looks like it solves a lot of problems.

Does anyone know what sort of impact this will have on their economy?


djsumdog 6 hours ago 4 replies      
I suspect their head of state will die in a plane crash within a year. Either that or there will be a military coupe. Double your bets if any of those shut down were American mining companies.

And before you start saying I should take off my tin foil hat, look up the 1973 coupe in Chile, the Iranian Contras, United Fruit and the documentary Confessions of an Economic Hitman.

I hope El Salvador keeps mining banned. I really do. But the track record is that NATO countries tend to "fix" things when their interests are threatened.

sebleon 12 hours ago 3 replies      
At first glance, I think this measure makes a lot of sense - profits from mines mostly leave the country.

That being said, I'd expect this will lead to a surge in illegal mining operations, which will likely be a lot more environmentally hazardous.

specialist 9 hours ago 6 replies      
Ages ago, a buddy predicted we'd eventually just mine our own trash for precious metals. As opposed to recycling, I suppose. Call it "extreme recycling".

I wonder how close we are to that future.

zghst 6 hours ago 0 replies      
Too bad we (U.S.) are a a large economy, the only way we could survive and implement this policy is if we get to space and get good at mining asteroids.
r00fus 14 hours ago 2 replies      
It'll be interesting to see how fast banning the pollution results in water quality changes.
EGreg 14 hours ago 1 reply      
How dare El Salvador try to use facts to claim that these foreign companies mining their resources don't help their communities but only pollute it!

The anarcho capitalist solution is that the country should privatize their water supply so that outside companies can then legally buy up the lakes and pollute as much as they want! After all the companies will have paid people for it - the people only would have to live there :)

partycoder 13 hours ago 0 replies      
This is interesting.

Blocking access to a resource would redirect efforts towards other activities.

Countries with abundance of resources or no restrictions to harvest them are not always more prosperous, as explained by the concept "resource course": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resource_curse

cmrdporcupine 10 hours ago 2 replies      
A lot of Canadian mining companies doing really dirty work in Central America. Makes me ashamed to be Canadian. Glad to see El Salvador assert their autonomy.
lightedman 13 hours ago 2 replies      
This becomes interesting. Many gemstones are also essentially metal ores. I wonder if this will affect gem and mineral mining/collecting in El Salvador, which does have a decent reputation in the mineral/gem/lapidary circle.
bingomad123 5 hours ago 1 reply      
Now let us hope all countries follow the suite and ban all metal mining right away.
aaron695 13 hours ago 9 replies      
Have they lost the plot? Has HN lost the plot in the comments supporting this.

Why not just ban science?

We need metals to live and prosper.

If it was really that minimal as per 'NGO' advise then the pollution would be minimal.

Why not just make companies pay fines if they polute? The government obviously doesn't kowtow to them?

Perhaps if their people weren't so poor you could excuse banning things like gold and diamond. But this (as the article tells it, I doubt it's close to the full story) is like going back to the middle ages.

New approaches to network fast paths lwn.net
30 points by signa11  11 hours ago   2 comments top
grive 2 hours ago 1 reply      
> We will focus on in-kernel solutions for now. Indeed, user-space tools have a fundamental limitation: if they need to re-inject packets onto the network, they must again pay the expensive cost of crossing the kernel barrier

This is glossing a little quickly over user-space solutions.

If you are handling packets at the rate of which you thus need to put a kernel bypass in place, then there is chance that you can't afford the kernel to handle them on their way back onto the network.

The obvious solution is to kernel bypass this transmit side as well. All user-space tools offer this.

There are some control packets that will need to get back to the kernel, but those do not require that kind of speed.

Fact-Check Yourself Before You Fact-Wreck Yourself transom.org
10 points by samclemens  4 hours ago   1 comment top
Safety1stClyde 2 hours ago 0 replies      
Editing the article to remove some of the extraneous information would have made it easier to understand.
Getting Closer to Mass Production of Bones, Organs, and Implants bloomberg.com
307 points by jgrahamc  22 hours ago   54 comments top 13
Boothroid 21 hours ago 1 reply      
Airway is mentioned, but this is one of the hardest parts to manufacture. Very little clinical success in this area so far: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-37311038
Tharkun 20 hours ago 1 reply      
An acquaintance of mine had a part of her skull replaced by a 3D printed part, made by Materialise. While it sounds spectacular, she was out of the hospital in days, none the worse for wear.
dghughes 16 hours ago 1 reply      
I've read about coral being used as temporary structure for bone replacment but eventually the patient's own bone takes over replacing it.

You'd think a liver would be the easiest organ to grow since in adults a liver can regrow from a healthy piece. That's why you sometimes read about people donating part of their liver.

I think there will always be one big problem and that's the health of the patient. People who need a new organ are so sick they probably won't survive the operation to get a new organ. Anesthetic is like a controlled drug overdose but add age and poor health I can't imagine being an anesthesiologist that's one tough job!

systems 21 hours ago 6 replies      
why aren't teeth implants and crowns getting cheaper because of 3D Printers

crowns and teeth implants should be a lot easier than other organs or bones

devrandomguy 18 hours ago 0 replies      
"Who: Engineering Ph.D. dropout ..."

In other words, an ordinary professional engineer, who considered extending his formal education? Bit of a gaffe, there.

crusso 17 hours ago 0 replies      
"getting closer"... that's not much to go on.

If you read the article skeptically, there isn't any news here - nothing that hasn't been reported prior to the last 2 or 3 years.

The big news will be when we can fabricate complex organs, significant patches of skin with features like hair follicles or fingerprints, etc. Notice that even the liver reference was just some liver tissue that was implanted in a mouse - not an actual liver or a human trial.

smaili 21 hours ago 10 replies      
Has there been a term coined yet for people with these parts? I don't believe it would be classified as a cyborg since these are not machine-type parts. Although the parts are ironically produced by machines.
lallysingh 18 hours ago 0 replies      
I wonder if they'll be able to produce some of these parts in-place, inside the body, as part of the surgery. Otherwise, some parts may be too hard to implant.
afinlayson 20 hours ago 0 replies      
I'm very excited for this technology. But not as much as hockey players, who would love to be able to have their teeth replaced.
ricardobeat 20 hours ago 1 reply      
> Ten-year old Organovo [...] has received more than $100 million in funding

I couldn't help but think of Juicero's $120m to design a flat mechanical press.

(yes, supply chain etc, but still...)

sbahr001 21 hours ago 0 replies      
Hello 6 million dollar man.
throwaway6556 20 hours ago 1 reply      
How former professional climate change skeptic Jerry Taylor changed his mind theintercept.com
46 points by DamonHD  6 hours ago   33 comments top 4
Claudus 3 hours ago 1 reply      
From the article:

On air, I said that, back in 1988, when climate scientist James Hansen testified in front of the Senate, he predicted wed see a tremendous amount of warming. I argued itd been more than a decade and we could now see by looking at the temperature record that he wasnt accurate. After we got done with the program and were back in green room, getting the makeup taken off, Joe said to me, Did you even read that testimony youve just talked about? And when I told him it had been a while, he said Im daring you to go back and double check this. He told me that some of Hansens projections were spot on. So I went back to my office and I re-read Hansons testimony. And Joe was correct.

Here is a transcript of the testimony, he appears to be referring to...


Having read it twice, I'm not sure exactly which "predictions" he is referring to.

John Taylor, according to his Wikipedia article is "an environmental activist and policy analyst", and apparently more than happy to shill for either side.

Criticism of him from some random link on the second page of Google:


No matter your opinion on the topic, this guy certainly seems less than credible.

louithethrid 1 hour ago 0 replies      
Doesent the tradition of the convert demand a way morea zealot approach to the once opposite view? After all you got too proof it to the world, to yourself, to the old allys and the new allys- that what you did was right.

Everything else would be heresci.

ZeroGravitas 5 hours ago 5 replies      
I'm surprised more libertarians aren't worried about the blowback when it becomes common knowledge that they were lying for the benefit of large corporations. I can easily imagine a swing towards nationalisation, confiscation of property etc. when things become visibly messed up.
tajen 4 hours ago 4 replies      
Our best glimpse of hope for climate change would be if Trump, the sceptic amongst the sceptics, changed its mind. "I thought it was bullshit, but I've decided after further information that America will not survive without converting itself to XXIst-century technology, that is, sustainable tech. Let's make America great again."
Linger Device to create and broadcast a virtual crowd jaspervanloenen.com
45 points by javl  13 hours ago   11 comments top 6
amitbr 6 hours ago 0 replies      
The blog is trying to mask wifi probe requests. Active scan and connect modes are disabled on iOS and most modern smartphones from my knowledge. Back in the golden days, we use to track people around based on their wifi signals, we also developed a machine learning system to determine where a person was based on their RSSI over time (we used time warping networks).
shshhdhs 9 hours ago 0 replies      
I absolutely love how simple and clever this is, from a security/privacy perspective. The display of the number of folks in your "group" is pure fun. =)

I kind of wish this could be an app. Anyway to replicate the effect on iOS or Android? Or do they not expose the necessary APIs?

cdevs 9 hours ago 0 replies      
The best ideas are the ones you could have come up with yourself but didn't someone else made the cool white box. Nice work simple and a little creepy hardware design mocking our lack of privacy best practices.
COMMENT___ 7 hours ago 0 replies      
The second paragraph tries to explain what this device is supposed to do or what real problems it solves. Again, how keeping a collection of 'signals' helps with privacy?

So does my iPhone "yell" those wifi names? How and what exactly does it yell?

Won't this linger device make me a unique and traceable fingerprint? Is this about privacy?

mirimir 8 hours ago 0 replies      
This is cool. But maybe a bit too subtle. I wonder whether devices could use a shared P2P database, so your crowd could be millions strong.
kordless 8 hours ago 3 replies      
> Your phone is basically yelling every name of every network it has ever been connected to

No it's not.

A Critic Looks at His Own Early Artwork, 35 Years Later vulture.com
6 points by prismatic  5 hours ago   3 comments top
amsilprotag 2 hours ago 1 reply      
This slide show is a follow-up to [0]. I'd argue the context is more interesting than the content. The original article is a kind of counterweight to survivorship bias. What happens when an artist in his early twenties gets some glimmers of potential success as a professional artist, and then goes down the rabbit hole for about a decade only to find that their work is seen as mediocre?

From the article:

Soon, I went to get Roberta. I told her the news [about rediscovering his art] and asked her to come see. She came into my office and started looking. For a long time. Longer than I had. One by one. Studying, not saying a word. After a while she turned to me and said, Theyre okay. Stricken, I said, Okay?! What do you mean okay? I think theyre beautiful. Arent they great? She turned back to the drawings, looked a little longer, and finally said, Theyre generic. And impersonal. No one would know what these are about. And whats with the triangles? Are they supposed to be women? I shot back, No! Theyre Hell! She talked about how many artists never get better than their first work. And just like that, I was right back to where I was when I quit: crushed, in crisis, frozen, panicky.

[0] http://www.vulture.com/2017/04/jerry-saltz-my-life-as-a-fail...

Postgres tips for Rails developers citusdata.com
166 points by craigkerstiens  16 hours ago   19 comments top 3
theodorton 5 hours ago 2 replies      
Surprised the list doesn't mention PGHero (https://github.com/ankane/pghero). It's been really useful at our company to find slow queries and identify missing indices.
misterbowfinger 15 hours ago 2 replies      
I wonder why some of these tips, like a statement timeout, aren't the default behavior of Rails. Some things can't be, like pg-bouncer, which makes sense. But why not have pg_stat_statements running on PG? Or have log_lock_waits in each statement?
nateberkopec 14 hours ago 2 replies      
A feature somewhat similar to `marginalia` is probably going to merged into Rails very soon: https://github.com/rails/rails/pull/26815
N.S.A Halts Collection of Americans Emails About Foreign Targets nytimes.com
204 points by sashk  19 hours ago   114 comments top 34
jancsika 18 hours ago 9 replies      
We can't sensibly discuss this story here unless we know which definition of "collect" is being used in the story.

Normal definition: collect. For example: "Even collected all the data going to and from Bob's house by putting a splitter on the cable."

NSA's definition: not that, as cited in various stories sourced by the Snowden leaks from the Guardian.

I won't attempt to define exactly how the NSA defines "collect" because I don't have time to track down and read the relevant article. But the upshot is-- their definition is idiosyncratic and misleading for a piece that has a general audience like this one.

nostromo 18 hours ago 1 reply      
> For technical reasons, the agency ended up collecting messages sent and received domestically as a byproduct of such surveillance, the officials said.

"Oops didn't mean to."

Keep in mind that the NSA lied to Congress very recently. Thanks to Snowden they were caught in that lie. I don't believe anything they say.


Baeocystin 18 hours ago 9 replies      
Things that I do not for one second believe: this.

Maybe this one particular program, under one particular name, sure.

But overall? I just don't see it. I am not saying this cynically, I just don't. Data collection is too easy, database queries too simple.

pc2g4d 18 hours ago 1 reply      
They're trying to get a PR win out of that fact that---for now---they're not continuing the program. Later, when they've refined their technical infrastructure in a way that makes it easy to comply with whatever new requirements the FISA judge(s) came up with, they'll resume the program but not tell a soul.

That's how I'm interpreting this, anyway. I hope I'm wrong.

a3n 17 hours ago 1 reply      
How would we even know? No one can even go down in there. Congressional oversight is done by them coming up to Congress and saying "Nope, we're not breaking any laws. Not wittingly."
dmix 16 hours ago 2 replies      
I don't like how this article implies that they aren't saving and storing all of your emails unless you are communicating with a surveillance target. In reality they are sucking up all data in transit and only looking at it when it involves a foreign target.

But technically they are storing it regardless if you do or not, and we are basically trusting them to not look at it.

This seems to be the biggest issue that is never addressed in these articles.

Not to mention the FISA court process being oddly rubber-stampy. Despite claims that they try really-really hard to get each one right, as an explanation why every single one gets approved.

Jerry2 18 hours ago 1 reply      
If they don't collect it under this program, they'll collect it under some other program. Or they'll just let one of the FIVE EYES partners spy on Americans. That's how they operate.
theprop 18 hours ago 0 replies      
It looks like this is likely a temporary cease & desist in order to get court authorization for their "broader warrantless surveillance program" while they figure out how to get those "bundled messages" into a separate repository.

I'd guess the NSA will eventually resume this massive email collection program once they can get it such that it's in compliance with the Court rules (which they seem to have been unable to do quickly right now hence ceasing it).

The good news, however slight it may be, is that the NSA may be at least obeying court orders somewhat rigorously.

seibelj 18 hours ago 0 replies      
Don't ever rely on email to be secure. It is an insecure medium despite all the bandaids on it. It's useful for sure, but assume it's being read by the government before you send a message.
exabrial 15 hours ago 1 reply      
This program likely started under Bush but was KEPT by Obama. It really upsets me that people give him a free pass for such an egregious violation of the Constitution.
SapphireSun 5 hours ago 0 replies      
The NYT story was way too friendly in my opinion. It almost took the claims at face value that the agency did this voluntarily. I liked this version better: https://theintercept.com/2017/04/28/nsa-backs-down-on-major-...
jey 18 hours ago 1 reply      
> The problem stemmed from certain bundled messages that internet companies sometimes packaged together and transmitted as a unit.


encryptThrow32 13 hours ago 0 replies      
The filter on XKS that prevents US hits on selectors has been enhanced to satisfy ruling of the court.

Its still collected in perpetuity, but under the Schrdinger approach to surveillance it no longer exists.

Maybe nothing can truly change, just as one cannot uninvent a technology -- telephony, broadcasting or social media are with us forever. Maybe true to for global passive surveillance.

jimsmart 14 hours ago 0 replies      
Err, the same emails that only a few years back they claimed they weren't 'collecting' anyway?[0] Totally believable. Yeah, totally and I'm the King of England.

[0] https://www.wired.com/2013/06/phew-it-was-just-metadata-not-...

djschnei 17 hours ago 0 replies      
These criminals are sorry they broke the law, promise not to do it again. I'm all warm and fuzzy.
19eightyfour 10 hours ago 0 replies      
I don't know why Snowden is so quick to tweet that this is a victory. To me, it's a multivariate equation, and all they've done is made one of the variables smaller. They can sustain collection at the same amounts, by making another variable proportionally larger. For instance, what's changed is that they no longer collect signals that mention a target, only signals to or from a target. So all you need to do to keep collecting the same amount, is to make a lot more targets.
kevwil 17 hours ago 0 replies      
Can we get an inside contractor to leak proof of such? Because, you know, trust or the lack thereof.
godmodus 3 hours ago 0 replies      
I doubt that, esp with all the russian tenssions recently.
meowschwitz 15 hours ago 1 reply      
5 Eyes is collecting AND STORING EVERYTHING that enters or leaves their respective country.
mtgx 19 hours ago 3 replies      
> For technical reasons, the agency ended up collecting messages sent and received domestically as a byproduct of such surveillance, the officials said.

Yeah, sure. Maybe don't do mass surveillance then?

> The agency then proposed putting the bundled messages in a special repository to which analysts, searching through intercepts to write intelligence reports, would generally not have access. The court permitted that type of collection to continue with that restriction.

But last year, officials said, the N.S.A. discovered that analysts were querying the bundled messages in a way that did not comply with those rules.

This seems to happen Every.Single.Time. I wonder what really prompted the NSA to stop this collection. Maybe they just want to act all "We're good boys now" to convince Congress that they can be trusted with FISA Amendments' renewal, later this year?

Mendenhall 16 hours ago 0 replies      
Easy, now they just get it from the rest of 5 eyes then store it :)
throwfast1 18 hours ago 0 replies      
so, the infrastructure equipment used to do this is up for sale right? anyone know where?I'm in the market for cheap network/server/security gear.
wheelerwj 16 hours ago 0 replies      
MFW trump making it harder to prove links to foreign government happens to coincide with my 4th Amendment rights...
dbg31415 13 hours ago 1 reply      
If you believe this, I have a bridge to sell you.

We'd need to understand what their definition of NSA, or collection, or emails are.

I think it's most likely they are saying that the entire NSA as a whole isn't doing collection, only some subset of the NSA is... and maybe they define collection as capturing and retaining information for 10 years, and now they are only doing it for 9 years 11 months... and emails mean everything you ever do online and SnapChat and Signal and Texts too.

Do not trust these people.

DesiLurker 8 hours ago 0 replies      
sure, collecting emails has no benefit unless people believe that they are not being watched!
hackuser 17 hours ago 2 replies      
A fundamental conflict keeps coming up:

1) Security agencies are much more effective if they collect data before they know it's important. If they wait until Jane Doe blows up a building to start collecting intelligence on her, much of the evidence and other valuable information will be long gone.

2) Spying on innocent people violates their privacy, their legal rights, and is a tool for oppression. Warrants are required for a good reason.

One somewhat obvious solution is to store the data in escrow, available only with a warrant. Nobody would trust a private company with all that data (I hope, though I some countries require ISPs and other service providers to maintain some history), so who can we trust? I wonder if the courts are an answer. On one hand, it is not their role to provide investigative tools to the prosecution and could even violate their independence and neutrality. On the other, there would be little question about whether law enforcement had a valid warrant or whether the courts would respect by their own authority to issue warrants (and on the third hand, rather than the courts cleaning up the corruption, the corruption could spread to the courts too).

Does anyone know if there's a precedent?

sandworm101 17 hours ago 0 replies      
Imho this has nothing to do with privacy or law. This is an operational decision. The bad guys aren't using email these days. I don't agree with much of the "going dark" narrative, but it is clear that bad guys are using IM services and other not-email means of communicating. So to hear NSA talk about not collecting email is like them saying they are going to stop monitoring library records: It sounds like a win for privacy but only on paper and we know that they will simply redeploy resources to the interception of other communication.
chinathrow 17 hours ago 0 replies      
Even then - the data of rest of the world is still sucked up wherever possible.

Signed, A non-US citizen of this world

c3534l 14 hours ago 0 replies      
Sure they did.
systematical 13 hours ago 0 replies      
sneak 15 hours ago 1 reply      
Only 4% of humans live in America. The other 96% deserve human rights, too.
whatnotests 13 hours ago 0 replies      
Sure they did.
benevol 6 hours ago 0 replies      
Right. And Trump starts caring about the environment.

That's just adding one more insult to a stack of insults that's already higher than the Trump tower.

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