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Ask HN: Is S3 down?
2254 points by iamdeedubs  8 hours ago   938 comments top 309
boulos 4 hours ago 21 replies      
Disclosure: I work on Google Cloud.

Apologies if you find this to be in poor taste, but GCS directly supports the S3 XML API (including v4):


and has easy to use multi-regional support at a fraction of the cost of what it would take on AWS. I directly point my NAS box at home to GCS instead of S3 (sadly having to modify the little PHP client code to point it to storage.googleapis.com), and it works like a charm. Resumable uploads work differently between us, but honestly since we let you do up to 5TB per object, I haven't needed to bother yet.

Again, Disclosure: I work on Google Cloud (and we've had our own outages!).

cperciva 3 hours ago 2 replies      
S3 is currently (22:00 UTC) back up.

The timeline, as observed by Tarsnap:

 First InternalError response from S3: 17:37:29 Last successful request: 17:37:32 S3 switches from 100% InternalError responses to 503 responses: 17:37:56 S3 switches from 503 responses back to InternalError responses: 20:34:36 First successful request: 20:35:50 Most GET requests succeeding: ~21:03 Most PUT requests succeeding: ~21:52

gamache 7 hours ago 9 replies      
A piece of hard-earned advice: us-east-1 is the worst place to set up AWS services. You're signing up for the oldest hardware and the most frequent outages.

For legacy customers, it's hard to move regions, but in general, if you have the chance to choose a region other than us-east-1, do that. I had the chance to transition to us-west-2 about 18 months ago and in that time, there have been at least three us-east-1 outages that haven't affected me, counting today's S3 outage.

EDIT: ha, joke's on me. I'm starting to see S3 failures as they affect our CDN. Lovely :/

cyberferret 4 hours ago 3 replies      
Well, at least our decision to split services has paid off. All of our web app infrastructure is on AWS, which is currently down, but our status page [0] is on Digital Ocean, so at least our customers can go see that we are down!

A pyrrhic victory... ;)

[0] - http://status.hrpartner.io

EDIT UPDATE: Well, I spoke too soon - even our status page is down now, but not sure if that is linked to the AWS issues, or simply the HN "hug of death" from this post! :)

EDIT UPDATE 2: Aaaaand, back up again. I think it just got a little hammered from HN traffic.

alexleclair 8 hours ago 15 replies      
Yup, same here. It has been a few minutes already. Wanna bet the green checkmark[1] will stay green until the incident is resolved?

[1] https://status.aws.amazon.com/

gmisra 6 hours ago 2 replies      
FYI to S3 customers, per the SLA, most of us are eligible for a 10% credit for this billing period. But the burden is on the customer to provide incident logs and file a support ticket requesting said credit (it must be really challenging to programmatically identify outage coverage across customers /s)


geerlingguy 6 hours ago 1 reply      
From Amazon: https://twitter.com/awscloud/status/836656664635846656

 The dashboard not changing color is related to S3 issue. See the banner at the top of the dashboard for updates.
So it's not just a joke... S3 being down actually breaks its own status page!

jliptzin 6 hours ago 2 replies      
Thank god I checked HN. I was driving myself crazy last half hour debugging a change to S3 uploads that I JUST pushed to production. Reminds me of the time my dad had an electrician come to work on something minor in his house. Suddenly power went out to the whole house, electrician couldn't figure out why for hours. Finally they realized this was the big east coast blackout!
dang 6 hours ago 0 replies      
All: I hate to ask this, but HN's poor little single-core server process is getting hammered and steam is coming out its ears. If you don't plan to post anything, would you mind logging out? Then we can serve you from cache. Cached pages are updated frequently so you won't miss anything. And please do log back in later.

(Yes it sucks and yes we're working on fixing it. We hate slow software too!)

maxerickson 7 hours ago 0 replies      


I've been fuzzing S3 parameters last couple hours...

And now it's down.

ethanpil 7 hours ago 0 replies      
Corporate language is entertaining while we all pull out our hair.

"We are investigating increased error rates for Amazon S3" translates to "We are trying to figure out why our mission critical system for half the internet is completely down for most (including some of our biggest) customers."

johngalt 6 hours ago 11 replies      
Sysadmin: I can forgive outages, but falsely reporting 'up' when you're obviously down is a heinous transgression.

Somewhere a sysadmin is having to explain to a mildly technical manager that AWS services are down and affecting business critical services. That manager will be chewing out the tech because the status site shows everything is green. Dishonest metrics are worse than bad metrics for this exact reason.

Any sysadmin who wasn't born yesterday knows that service metrics are gamed relentlessly by providers. Bluntly there aren't many of us, and we talk. Message to all providers: sysadmins losing confidence in your outage reporting has a larger impact than you think. Because we will be the ones called to the carpet to explain why <services> are down when <provider> is lying about being up.

greenhathacker 8 hours ago 0 replies      
"I felt a great disturbance in the Force, as if millions of voices suddenly cried out in terror, and were suddenly silenced. I fear something terrible has happened."
chrisan 8 hours ago 1 reply      
Down for us as well. We have cloudfront in front of some of our s3 buckets and it is responding with

 CloudFront is currently experiencing problems with requesting objects from Amazon S3.
Can I also say I am constantly disappointed by AWS's status page: https://status.aws.amazon.com/ it seems whenever there is an issue this takes a while to update. Sometimes all you see is a green checkmark with a tiny icon saying a note about some issue. Why not make it orange or something. Surely they must have some kind of external monitor on these things that could be integrated here?

edit: Since posting my comment they added a banner of

"Increased Error Rates

We are investigating increased error rates for Amazon S3 requests in the US-EAST-1 Region."

However S3 still shows green and "Service is operating normally"

lobster_johnson 7 hours ago 9 replies      
It's interesting to note the cascading effects. For example, I was immediately hit by three problems:

* Slack file sharing no longer works, hangs forever (no way to hide the permanently rolling progress bar except quitting)

* Github.com file uploads (e.g. dropping files into a Github issue) don't work.

* Imgur.com is completely down.

* Docker Hub seems to be unavailable. Can't pull/push images.

jrs235 8 hours ago 1 reply      
They don't show it on the status dashboard at https://status.aws.amazon.com/ (at least at the time I originally posted this comment).

But if you go to your personal health dashboard (https://phd.aws.amazon.com/phd/home#/dashboard/open-issues) they report an S3 operational issue event there.

Edit: Mine is reporting region us-east-1

Edit 2: And now the event disappeared from my personal health dashboard too. But we are still experiencing issues. WTH.

fletom 7 hours ago 13 replies      
what's truly incredible is that S3 has been offline for half an hour two hours now and Amazon still has the audacity to put five shiny green checkmarks next to S3 on their service page.

they just now put up a box at the top saying "We are investigating increased error rates for Amazon S3 requests in the US-EAST-1 Region."

increased error rates? really?

Amazon, everything is on fire. you are not fooling anyone

edit: in the future, please subscribe to @MyFootballNow for timely AWS service status updates https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C5xdm9_WMAAY7y_.jpg:large

STRML 7 hours ago 1 reply      
It's not just us-east-1! They're being extremely dishonest with the green checkmarks. We can't even load the s3 console for other regions. I would post a screenshot, but Imgur is hosed by this too.
rrggrr 7 hours ago 2 replies      
Its unreal watching key web services fall like dominoes. Its too bad the concept of "too big to fail" applies only to large banks and countries.
rnhmjoj 7 hours ago 2 replies      
Wow, S3 is a much bigger single point of failure than I have imagined. Travis CI, Trello, Docker Hub, ...I can't even install packages because the binary cache of NixOS is down. Love living in the cloud.
bandrami 7 hours ago 0 replies      
And they've just broken four-9's uptime (53 minutes). They must be pretty busy, since they still haven't bothered to acknowledge a problem publicly...
benwilber0 7 hours ago 3 replies      
Notice how Amazon.com itself is unaffected. They're a lot smarter than us.
mabramo 7 hours ago 2 replies      
Thanks for sharing. I overheard someone on my team say that a production user is having problems with our service. The team checked AWS status, but only took notice of the green checkmarks.

Through some dumb luck (and desire to procrastinate a bit), I opened HN and, subsequently, the AWS status page and actually read the US-EAST-1 notification.

HN saves the day.

140am 8 hours ago 2 replies      

"Increased API Error Rates - 9:52 AM PST We are investigating increased error rates in the US-EAST-1""S3 operational issue - us-east-1"

obeattie 7 hours ago 2 replies      
Best thing about incidents like these: post-mortems for systems of this scale are absolutely fascinating. Hopefully they publish one.
ethanpil 8 hours ago 1 reply      
What kills me is that their status page still shows nothing is wrong.


AndyKelley 7 hours ago 12 replies      
This seems like an appropriate time as any... Anyone want to list some competitors to S3? Bonus if it also provides a way to host a static website.
mijustin 7 hours ago 6 replies      
Started a list of "things to do when S3 is down."


What else should I add?

rawrmaan 8 hours ago 2 replies      
Incredible how much stuff this affected for me. Opbeat is not loading and I can't even deploy because CircleCI seems to depend on S3 for something and my build is "Queued". This seems so dangerous...
homakov 7 hours ago 1 reply      
Was just pentesting it, and have some minor result. If you are using S3 browser uploads, make sure parameters you supply to Presign do not contain \n or it can lead to format injection https://s3.amazonaws.com/doc/s3-developer-guide/RESTAuthenti...

Many aws SDK libs don't remove \n for you.

(I hope it wasn't me who broke it lol)

dfischer 7 hours ago 0 replies      
Wow this is a fun one. I almost pooped my pants when I saw all of our elastic beanstalk architecture disappear. It's so relieving to see it's not our fault and the internet feels our pain. We're in this together boys!

I'm curious how much $ this will lose today for the economy. :)

samaysharma 5 hours ago 1 reply      
From https://status.aws.amazon.com/: "Update at 12:52 AM PST: We are seeing recovery for S3 object retrievals, listing and deletions. We continue to work on recovery for adding new objects to S3 and expect to start seeing improved error rates within the hour."

(I think the AM means PM)

valine 6 hours ago 1 reply      
Apple's iCloud is having issues too, probably stemming from AWS. Ironically Apple's status page has been updated to reflect the issue while Amazon's page still shows all green. https://www.apple.com/support/systemstatus/
c4urself 8 hours ago 0 replies      
It is, of course the checkmark will stay green throughout this as Amazon doesn't care about actually letting its customers know they have a problem.
remx 6 hours ago 0 replies      
Post about S3 not being a CDN hosted on an S3-powered blog:


The irony

bandrami 7 hours ago 1 reply      
That sound you hear is every legacy hosting company firing up its marketing machine
flavor8 6 hours ago 0 replies      
> Update at 11:35 AM PST: We have now repaired the ability to update the service health dashboard. The service updates are below. We continue to experience high error rates with S3 in US-EAST-1, which is impacting various AWS services. We are working hard at repairing S3, believe we understand root cause, and are working on implementing what we believe will remediate the issue.

"Believe" is not inspiring.

devy 4 hours ago 3 replies      
So S3's been down for at least 3 hours. Does AWS break this year's S3 durability & reliability promise of eleven 9s by now? [1][2]

[1]: https://aws.amazon.com/s3/details/

[2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_availability#Percentage_c...

ianamartin 1 hour ago 1 reply      
This is why it's important to write code that doesn't depend on only a single service provider. S3 is great. But it's better to set up a Riak cluster on AWS than to actually use S3, if you can.

The only services my team uses directly are EC2 and RDS, and I'm thinking of moving RDS over to EC2 instances.

We are entirely portable. We can move my entire team's infrastructure to a different cloud host really quickly. Our only dependency is a Debian box.

I flipped the switch today and cloned our prod environment, including VPN and security rules, over to a commodity hosting provider.

Change the DNS entry for the services, and we were good to go. We didn't need to do anything because everyone was freaking out about everything else being down. But our internal services were close to unaffected.

At least for my team.

Obviously, we aren't Trello or some of the other big people affected. And we don't have the same needs they do. But setting up the DevOps stuff for my team in the way that I think was correct to begin with (no dependencies other than a Debian box) really shined today. Having a clear and correct deployment strategy on any available hardware platform really worked for us.

Or at least it would have if people weren't so upset about all our other external services being down that they paid no attention to internal services.

Lock-in is bad, mmkay?

If your company is the right size, and it makes sense, do the extra work. It's not that hard to write agnostic scripts that deploy your software, create your database, and build your data from a backup. This can be a big deal when some providers are flipping out.

All-your-junk-in-one-place is really overrated, in my opinion. Be able to rebuild your code and your data at any given point in time. If you don't have that, I don't really know what you have.

DenisM 6 hours ago 3 replies      
Now might be a good time to ponder a lasting solution. Clearly, we cannot trust AWS, or any other single provider, to stay up. What is the shortest, quickest to implement, path to actual high availability?

You would have to host your own software which can also fail, but then at least you could do something about it. For example, you could avoid changing things during critical times of your own business (e.g. a tradeshow), which is something no standard provider could do. You could also dial down consistency for the sake of availability, e.g. keep a lot of copies around even if some of them are often stale - more often than not this would work well enough for images.

redm 5 hours ago 0 replies      
It looks like the S3 outage is spreading to other systems or the root cause of the S3 problem is affecting different services. There are at least 20 services listed now. [1]

[1]: http://status.aws.amazon.com/

agotterer 8 hours ago 4 replies      
Not sure if its related or not (I'll just assume it is), but dockerhub is down as well. Haven't been able to push or pull for the last 15 minutes, some other folks complaining of the same thing.
caravel 7 hours ago 5 replies      
But wait. Isn't S3 "the cloud". Everyone promised the cloud would never go down, ever. It has infinite uptime and reliability.

Well good thing I have my backups on [some service that happens to also use S3 as a backend].

gaia 7 hours ago 0 replies      
Sometimes refreshing the console gives this error instead of showing ZERO buckets https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C5xZVGKUYAAXYGj.jpg:large
Animats 6 hours ago 4 replies      
Amazon outage just reported on NBC News.[1]

AMZN stock down $3.45 (0.41%).

[1] http://www.nbcchicago.com/news/national-international/Amazon...

talawahdotnet 8 hours ago 1 reply      
Yup it looks so. My console says I have zero buckets, my Lambdas are timing out and https://aws.amazon.com/ returns a big:

"500 The server encountered an error processing your request." message

vpeters25 7 hours ago 0 replies      
Apologizes for the "me too" post:

It appears to be impacting gotomeeting, I get this error when trying to start a 12pm meeting here:

CloudFront is currently experiencing problems with requesting objects from Amazon S3.

Edit: ironically, my missed 12pm meeting was an Azure training session.

malchow 7 hours ago 0 replies      
<% if(service.isUp || true) { renderGreenButton() } %>
robineyre 6 hours ago 1 reply      
Hi all. I came across this forum on Google. I have the same error - and it's all a bit beyond me. I'm not a techie or coder but set up Amazon S3 several months ago to backup my websites and it generally works fine - and has saved my bacon on a couple of occasions. (Also back up in Google Drive.)

As someone who's really only a yellow belt (assuming you're all black belts!), just so I understand ('cos I'm cacking myself!) ...

I'm seeing the same issue. Does this mean there's a problem with Amazon? I can't access either of my S3 accounts even if I change the region, and I'm concerned it may be something I've done wrong, and deleted the whole lot. It was working yesterday!!!

Would be massively grateful for a heads up. Thanks in advance.

nodesocket 2 hours ago 1 reply      
Meanwhile engineers across the globe scramble to fix outages due to AWS s3, $AMZN is unaffected on the stock market. Just shows the disconnect between emotions and reality.


vegasje 7 hours ago 2 replies      
We're in US-West-2 and our ELBs are dropping 5XXs like there's no tomorrow. This is definitely cascading.
Fej 5 hours ago 0 replies      
Okay, it's been a few hours and this is starting to get ridiculous. When was the last time that we had a core infrastructure outage this major, that lasted for this long?
oshoma 5 hours ago 0 replies      
The status page shows a lot of yellow and red now.

From http://status.aws.amazon.com/ Update at 11:35 AM PST: We have now repaired the ability to update the service health dashboard. The service updates are below. We continue to experience high error rates with S3 in US-EAST-1, which is impacting various AWS services. We are working hard at repairing S3, believe we understand root cause, and are working on implementing what we believe will remediate the issue.

etse 7 hours ago 0 replies      
Anyone want to share their real experience with their reliability of Google Cloud Storage.
all_usernames 1 hour ago 0 replies      
As of 4:30PM Pacific, we're still having trouble with EC2 autoscaling API operations in US-East-1. Basically very long delays in launching new instances or terminating old ones.
Animats 3 hours ago 0 replies      
"Inc." is quoting comments from here.[1]

[1] http://www.inc.com/sonya-mann/amazon-web-services-outage.htm...

jpwgarrison 5 hours ago 1 reply      
I am having trouble sending attachments in the Signal app - seems unlikely, but could this be related?

[edit- looks like they do have a pretty heavy reliance on S3, per https://github.com/WhisperSystems/Signal-Server/blob/master/... and various other sources.]

huac 6 hours ago 0 replies      
Canvas (the educational software platform) is down, and my friends/students are in bad shape now. 'sso.canvaslms.com' returns 504, assume from this S3 outage.
leesalminen 6 hours ago 0 replies      
Now at the top of Drudge http://drudgereport.com/
scrollaway 8 hours ago 2 replies      
Down in US-East-1 as of 17:40 GMT. Amazon SES also down in US-East-1 as of a few minutes later.

Hearing reports of EBS down as well.

kevindong 7 hours ago 3 replies      
It really is amazing how many web services are dependent on S3. For instance, the Heroku dashboard is currently down for me. Along with all of my services that are on Heroku.
frik 5 hours ago 0 replies      

 Increased Error Rates Update at 11:35 AM PST: We have now repaired the ability to update the service health dashboard. The service updates are below. We continue to experience high error rates with S3 in US-EAST-1, which is impacting various AWS services. We are working hard at repairing S3, believe we understand root cause, and are working on implementing what we believe will remediate the issue.
Amazon hosted their status page on their failing service, ouch. Now they fixed the status page, after more than one hour.

 The dashboard not changing color is related to S3 issue. See the banner at the top of the dashboard for updates.

verelo 7 hours ago 0 replies      
Years ago when we launched our product i decided to use the US-WEST-2 region as our primary region and to build fail over to US-EAST-1 (Anyone here remember the outage of 2011? Yeah, that was why).

There is something to be said about not being located in the region where everything gets launched first, and where most the customers are not [imo all the benefits of the product, processes and people, but less risk].

Good luck to everyone impacted by this...crappy day.

mixedbit 5 hours ago 0 replies      
'Increased Error Rates' is a bit harsh, couldn't they call it 'Sub-prime Success Rates'?
ganesharul 7 hours ago 2 replies      
Sendgrid, Twilio, Quora is also down. Is this related to S3. Entire world depends on AWS
metafunctor 2 hours ago 1 reply      
Based on reports from the field, it looks like S3 was down for about three hours for most of their customers.

S3 promises four nines of availability (11 nines of durability), so today we got about 3-4 years worth of downtime in one fell swoop. Oops.

booleandilemma 7 hours ago 0 replies      
Thank you, HN, for giving me the answer the AWS Service Health Dashboard could not.
Globz 5 hours ago 0 replies      
My Atom keep crashing and the log says it can't resolve :


is there a part of this hosted on S3? I cannot open Atom anymore, it keep crashing on the check for updates screen...

BlackjackCF 8 hours ago 0 replies      
Yes. Have heard confirmation from Amazon that this outage is affecting us-east-1.
Animats 4 hours ago 0 replies      
Negative comment on all this in Forbes.[1] Too much centralization. CEOs read that.

[1] https://www.forbes.com/sites/ryanwhitwam/2017/02/28/amazon-s...

splatcollision 4 hours ago 0 replies      
I just spent the last hour trying to figure out why in the hell I can't update the function code on a lambda instance. Next time I will remember to check HN first!
jasonl99 4 hours ago 0 replies      
I can't download purchased MP3's from amazon's own site, I get "Were experiencing a problem with your music download. Please try downloading from Your Orders or contact us."

When I go to my orders I get "There's a problem displaying some of your orders right now.If you don't see the order you're looking for, try refreshing this page, or click "View order details" for that order."

It seems that Amazon is eating its own dog food.

l0c0b0x 6 hours ago 0 replies      
Google DNS was (for the first time that I've noticed) spotty about 30 minutes ago. Something big is happening: http://map.norsecorp.com/#/
cdevs 2 hours ago 0 replies      
I think there was some fontawesome loading issues related to this, I also noticed a site trying to load twitter messages but couldn't Get the JavaScript loaded during that time today.
bdcravens 5 hours ago 2 replies      
I was listening to sessions from AWS Re:invent last night. What jumped out at me was the claim of 11 9's for S3. How many of those 9's have they blown through with this outage?
gopalakrishnans 3 hours ago 0 replies      
dangle 6 hours ago 0 replies      
AWS is updating twitter here. No red icons on the status page IS an AWS issue:


poofyleek 4 hours ago 0 replies      
This is truly serverless computing at work.
rabidonrails 6 hours ago 1 reply      

Amazon Elastic Compute Cloud (N. Virginia)Increased Error Rates less 11:38 AM PST We can confirm increased error rates for the EC2 and EBS APIs and failures for launches of new EC2 instances in the US-EAST-1 Region. We are also experiencing degraded performance of some EBS Volumes in the Region.

Amazon Elastic Load Balancing (N. Virginia)Increased Error Rates more

Amazon Relational Database Service (N. Virginia)Increased Error Rates more

Amazon Simple Storage Service (US Standard)Increased Error Rates more

Auto Scaling (N. Virginia)Increased Error Rates more

AWS Lambda (N. Virginia)Increased Error Rates more

joatmon-snoo 6 hours ago 0 replies      
According to the personal health dashboard, they've root-caused the S3 outage and are working to restore.

In the meantime, EC2, ELB, RDS, Lambda, and autoscaling have all been confirmed to be experiencing issues.

ayemeng 6 hours ago 0 replies      
Funny, status page is incorrect because of S3


newsat13 7 hours ago 0 replies      
Yup, same here. For a moment, I was worried that the UI showed 0 buckets. Gave me a heart attack.
soheil 5 hours ago 0 replies      
It doesn't look that bad, think about it S3 is such a critical part of almost any web application, it is treated like a realtime micro-service. So looks like most of the Internet in the U.S. is affected but nevertheless no one is dead yet and the world has not ended. So even if hypothetically let's say China attacked us using cyber-warfare it wouldn't be so bad after all... This was kind of like a test.
linsomniac 7 hours ago 0 replies      
We got timeouts to our bucket address from every location we tried starting at 10:37 Mountain time (GMT-7). Slack uploads started failing, imgur isn't working, and the landing page for the AWS console is showing a 500 error in the image flipper in the middle of the page. The Amazon status page has been all green, but there is a forum post about people having problems at https://forums.aws.amazon.com/thread.jspa?threadID=250319&ts...

In the last couple of minutes that forum post has gone from not existing to 175 views and 9 posts.

melor 4 hours ago 0 replies      
Only limited impact to Aiven services due to service migration capability http://help.aiven.io/announcements/aiven-customer-notice-aws...
phildougherty 4 hours ago 0 replies      
I wrote a quick post discussing this outage. I figured I should share here https://blog.containership.io/aws-got-you-down
machinarium 6 hours ago 1 reply      
Omg I wish I googled this earlier. Wasted hours debugging :(
robxu9 6 hours ago 0 replies      
New update:

"Update at 11:35 AM PST: We have now repaired the ability to update the service health dashboard. The service updates are below. We continue to experience high error rates with S3 in US-EAST-1, which is impacting various AWS services. We are working hard at repairing S3, believe we understand root cause, and are working on implementing what we believe will remediate the issue."

fernandopj 6 hours ago 0 replies      
Update[1]: AWS Status dashboard now showing icons other than green. https://status.aws.amazon.com/

[1] https://twitter.com/awscloud/status/836662601090134017

Animats 5 hours ago 0 replies      
AWS is claiming that Simple Storage (US Standard) is starting to come back up as of 12:54 PM PST.
khamoud 6 hours ago 0 replies      
I think this explains why the docker registry is down as well.


dyeje 7 hours ago 1 reply      
Experiencing issues with Elastic Beanstalk and Cloudfront as well.
tjpaudio 4 hours ago 0 replies      
Interestingly, I placed an order on amazon.com and while the order appears when I look at my account, none of the usual automated emails have come. I wonder how deeply this is effecting their retail customers.
mmansoor78 5 hours ago 0 replies      
Per AWS :

For S3, we believe we understand root cause and are working hard at repairing. Future updates across all services will be on dashboard.


ryanmarr 7 hours ago 1 reply      
My ELBS and EB related instances are also down. I can't even get to Elastic Beanstalk or Load Balancers in the web console. Anyone else having this issue?
linsomniac 4 hours ago 0 replies      
We are starting to see recoveries, our SES emails have mostly gone out and our data synchronization has updated 2 of our 3 feeds. Amazon has posted a message that they expect "improved error rates" in the next 45 minutes.
koolba 6 hours ago 0 replies      
I bet the outage is related to the new color coded CloudWatch metrics: https://twitter.com/awscloud/status/836630468778864640

As part of the release they wanted to make sure everybody gets a chance to see "red" metrics.

netvisao 4 hours ago 0 replies      
Looks like our dashboard is still sustaining it https://acedashboard.cbp.dhs.gov/
benevol 4 hours ago 1 reply      
Here we go again:

Technology leads to technology (and wealth) monopolies, in other words: more centralization. Which has always been bad.

Just like with Cloudflare leaking highly sensitive data all over the Internet, a couple of days ago.

cdnsteve 5 hours ago 0 replies      
Look like the dashboard has been updated to no longer use S3:AWS is having a major meltdown right now


zitterbewegung 8 hours ago 0 replies      
Can't access my website which is hosted on s3 (http://joshuajherman.com).
axg 6 hours ago 0 replies      
Amazon: The dashboard not changing color is related to S3 issue. See the banner at the top of the dashboard for updates.


mcheshier 3 hours ago 0 replies      
If I listen closely, I think I can hear the pagers going off in South Lake Union from Downtown Seattle.
mmaunder 5 hours ago 0 replies      
So much has broken thanks to this. Web apps, slack uploads, parts of Freshdesk etc. I don't love you right now AWS.


knaik94 7 hours ago 0 replies      
"Were continuing to work to remediate the availability issues for Amazon S3 in US-EAST-1. AWS services and customer applications depending on S3 will continue to experience high error rates as we are actively working to remediate the errors in Amazon S3." Last Update 1:54pmEST

It shows up in the event log now too.

janlukacs 7 hours ago 0 replies      
We're down too with www.paymoapp.com - pretty frustrated that the status page shows everything is up and running.
tudorconstantin 6 hours ago 0 replies      
"We have now repaired the ability to update the service health dashboard. " - full of yellow red icons now indeed https://status.aws.amazon.com/
eggie5 6 hours ago 0 replies      
all of your jokes about the dashboard not turning red b/c the icon is hosted on US EAST are true:

Amazon Web ServicesVerified account @awscloud 8m8 minutes agoMore The dashboard not changing color is related to S3 issue. See the banner at the top of the dashboard for updates.

learc83 7 hours ago 2 replies      
One of my heroku apps is down, and I cant' log into the heroku dashboard to check it out. I'm guessing this is related.
vinayan3 7 hours ago 0 replies      
Yes it's down for me. I can't access files stored on S3. Also, the service I run is hung trying to store files on S3.
devenrl 6 hours ago 0 replies      
Sorry, my simplistic mind is only thinking this right now:


newman314 4 hours ago 0 replies      
There is no cloud, there is only someone else's computer.


nlightcho 6 hours ago 0 replies      

At least now we can see all the network failures in full RGB.

samat 5 hours ago 0 replies      
One of a really rare times when it's good to be in Europe (s3 works here).
leesalminen 8 hours ago 0 replies      
FreshDesk makes extensive use of S3 and it's been unbearably slow to load for the past hour or so. All on S3 requests.
socialentp 7 hours ago 0 replies      
Same here. I can log in to the new S3 console UI, but all of my buckets/resources are missing. Same error as you in the old UI. Also unable to connect through the AWS CLI (says, "An error occurred (AccessDenied) when calling the ListBuckets operation: Access Denied"). Fun.
jotaen 6 hours ago 0 replies      
Does anyone have trouble with the Cloud Console? The JS assets for the CloudFront dashboards seem broken, so unfortunately its not possible to change the behaviours of the Distributions (e.g. to point them to another bucket)
rrecuero 6 hours ago 1 reply      
Is anybody else having trouble loading http://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js? It is probably hosted on S3 I assume
samgranieri 8 hours ago 0 replies      
I'm running into timeouts trying to download elixir packages, and I'm willing to bet this is the cause
fjabre 6 hours ago 0 replies      
I never understood why so many devs flocked to AWS. I actually find their abstraction of services gets in the way and slows down my dev instead of making it easier like so many devs claim it does. I prefer Linode.
FussBudget86 5 hours ago 0 replies      
You think this is bad? Just look at what's happening in Sweden...
manmal 6 hours ago 0 replies      
Our static site hosted on eu-central-1 is still up: http://www.creativepragmatics.com.s3-website.eu-central-1.am...
tzaman 7 hours ago 0 replies      
It appears Docker Hub is hosted on S3 as well, none of the official images can be pulled.
adamveld12 7 hours ago 0 replies      
Where is that "Show HN" that will let me check if a site is affected by an S3 outtage?
mpetrovich 6 hours ago 0 replies      
Update: AWS dashboard has been fixed and is now showing outages https://status.aws.amazon.com/
ruchit47 7 hours ago 0 replies      
I have in the middle of thoughts of moving out of AWS and having a dedicated provider as our billing has increased a lot with the scale. The only thing which was holding me was the uptime confidence. Now I feel it's not a bad idea.
willcodeforfoo 8 hours ago 0 replies      
Uh-oh. Same here... and tried taking a screenshot of pinging s3.amazonaws.com and Slack upload hung.
afshinmeh 4 hours ago 0 replies      
Exuma 7 hours ago 1 reply      
Great, all my billing services on Heroku are turned off. Why do they need S3 access for me to access my web dynos?

I'd rather my app load but appear broken so I can show my own status rather than just shutting down every single app...

linsomniac 7 hours ago 0 replies      
The AWS status page is still showing all green but how has a header saying they are investigating increased error rates. https://status.aws.amazon.com/
jontro 8 hours ago 0 replies      
I get this in my aws console.

Increased API Error Rates

09:52 AM PST We are investigating increased error rates in the US-EAST-1 Region.

Event dataEventS3 operational issueStatusOpenRegion/AZus-east-1Start timeFebruary 28, 2017 at 6:51:57 PM UTC+1End time-Event categoryIssue

tbeutel 8 hours ago 0 replies      
I'm getting this using s3cmd:

$ s3cmd ls WARNING: Retrying failed request: / ([Errno 60] Operation timed out)WARNING: Waiting 3 sec...WARNING: Retrying failed request: / ([Errno 60] Operation timed out)WARNING: Waiting 6 sec...

zedpm 6 hours ago 1 reply      
Can anyone comment on mitigating issues like this with S3 Cross-region replication? I'm reading up on it now while one of my services is dead in the water.
shiven 4 hours ago 0 replies      
Status page is lit up like a Christmas tree! Looks like AWS finally found the myriad non-green icons.
krlkv 7 hours ago 0 replies      
S3 is down? Official Twitter feed is also "unaware" https://twitter.com/awscloud
ryanmarr 7 hours ago 0 replies      
My EB instances and Load Balancers are also down. I can't even get to load balancers in ec2 web console or to elastic beanstalk in web console. It's been almost an hour now.
rajangdavis 5 hours ago 2 replies      
Hate to ask, but does anybody now of an alternative storage solution? Also, anyone have any alternative to Heroku for now?
jhaile 8 hours ago 0 replies      
All of our S3 assets are unavailable. Cloudfront is accessible but returning a 504 status with the message: "CloudFront is currently experiencing problems with requesting objects from Amazon S3."
contingencies 6 hours ago 0 replies      
What a shame they took down MegaUpload! Clearly we need greater competition in the wholly-owned-infrastructure, file-hosting-as-a-service space.
rebornix 6 hours ago 0 replies      
Alexa smart home component stopped working, if you try to reinstall the Alexa app on your phone, you'll find that you can't even login anymore.
pmalynin 8 hours ago 0 replies      
Down from the outside;The internal access (from within EC2) APIs still work.
andrewfong 8 hours ago 0 replies      
Yeah, we host on S3 (US-East-1 I think) with Cloudfront for caching / SSL. Some of our requests get through but it's been intermittent. Lots of 504 Gateway Time-Outs when retrieving CSS, JS.
spacecadets 7 hours ago 0 replies      
There goes my Trello to do list. Now I'm lost. Oh well.
garindra 7 hours ago 0 replies      
DockerHub is down as well. DockerHub was down in Oct 2015 because S3 was down in US-EAST. They should have known to cache images in multiple S3 regions since then.
meddlepal 8 hours ago 0 replies      
Totally fucked.
francesco1975 4 hours ago 0 replies      
Yes it is down


Half internet is down the data center in Virginia the one with the cloud is totally dead apparently. Enjoy the cloud bullshit :)

reiichiroh 3 hours ago 0 replies      
Any truth to this being a DOS by some kiddies named Phantom Squad?
notheguyouthink 8 hours ago 0 replies      
Same here, i mistakingly went to the dashboard first too. Silly me.
gcoguiec 6 hours ago 0 replies      
> We have now repaired the ability to update the service health dashboard.

It seems their status page is hosted ... as a S3 static website.

LeonM 6 hours ago 0 replies      
Just posted on their Twitter:

"The dashboard not changing color is related to S3 issue. See the banner at the top of the dashboard for updates."

c4urself 6 hours ago 0 replies      
> We have now repaired the ability to update the service health dashboard-- AWS Status

Well that explains all the green checkmarks /s

BrandonM 6 hours ago 0 replies      
Additionally, Zendesk is apparently failing to process new tickets, so our users can't report the errors they're encountering.
kardashev 5 hours ago 0 replies      
You'll remember me when the west wind moves

Upon the fields of barley

You'll forget the sun in his jealous sky

As we walk in fields of green

philliphaydon 7 hours ago 0 replies      
I'm confused, just logged into work account, and site, and some contract stuff I do. All use S3 / Cloudfront... no errors...
xtus 6 hours ago 0 replies      
After few requests timed out, started to dig a bit.The CNAME for a bucket endpoint was pointing to s3-1-w.amazonaws.com with a TTL of at least an other 5600 secods.Doing a full trace was giving back a new s3-3-w.amazonaws.comThe IP related to s3-1-w was/is timing out, all cool instead for the s3-3-w.
Svenskunganka 6 hours ago 1 reply      
This can't be only the US-EAST-1 region. I'm a european resident and most things are down for me too.
bas 6 hours ago 0 replies      
"Amazon CloudFront: Service is operating normally"

This is bullshit if you're using an S3 origin in your distribution.

jefe_ 7 hours ago 0 replies      
Getting Issues with Citrix Sharefile api (which I've suspected to run in S3). Seems to only be impacting writes in preliminary assessment.
bkruse 7 hours ago 1 reply      
This is one of the times that I am glad to be running my own distributed object storage. I'm sure it's not as robust as Amazon, but......
JBerryMedX 7 hours ago 0 replies      
My company's ELBs in us-east-1 are experiencing massive amounts of latency causing the instances to be marked unhealthy.
thomassharoon 5 hours ago 1 reply      
Is S3 down outside of Us-East too? I can't seem to create a bucket in US-West or EU
bkanber 7 hours ago 0 replies      
I'm having issues with CloudWatch and related monitoring services; eg auto-scaling groups are unable to scale up or down.
ignaces 6 hours ago 0 replies      
Heroku apps are also down because of this!
travelton 7 hours ago 1 reply      
I can't get to my Amazon Orders page. "There's a problem displaying some of your orders right now."
alfg 7 hours ago 0 replies      
Yeah, same here on US-WEST-2. Unable to use the S3 Console, but I can still upload/get content via the API it seems.
maccard 6 hours ago 0 replies      
My fire tv stick is totally unusable too. Seems I can't access any applications (even Lodi or Netflix)
dgelks 7 hours ago 0 replies      
Getting the same error on the GUI but the aws cli and sdk seem to be working fine (our site is still up too)
Globz 7 hours ago 0 replies      
Yes Trello is down and they are using S3 :(
KurtMueller 6 hours ago 0 replies      
You can always check by going to www.isitdownrightnow.com/

Oh wait. The site sits on S3. Never mind.

myth_drannon 6 hours ago 1 reply      
Looks like SoundCloud is hosting the tracks on S3 , can't program without my music...
nicpottier 6 hours ago 0 replies      
SES seems to be down for us as well in Virginia. Of course nothing on the status page.
kyleblarson 8 hours ago 1 reply      
Any specific regions? us-west-2 seems fine to me. [edit] now I can't see any of my buckets in the web interface.
carimura 4 hours ago 0 replies      
We're seeing recovery across our services now.
skiril 6 hours ago 1 reply      
cwe 8 hours ago 1 reply      
Dropbox using this? Can't seem to sync
dageshi 7 hours ago 0 replies      
Huh, I wonder if that's why Origin (EA's Steam competitor) cloud sync just stopped working
indytechcook 7 hours ago 1 reply      
My EC2 Servers are also not provisioning.
headcanon 7 hours ago 0 replies      
Still down for us. S3 seems to be the only thing affected - our mobile apps work fine (EC2 and RDS backend)
jsperson 6 hours ago 0 replies      
Just finished reading The Everything Store... I bet a "?" email went out.
JustinAiken 6 hours ago 0 replies      
For our app, both S3 and SES have been completely down in us-east-1 for hours now.
k__ 7 hours ago 0 replies      
1. Announce security vulnerability

2. People push updates as fast as possible to fix security

3. No tests, so everything blows up

happyrock 7 hours ago 1 reply      
Anyone doing a region failover? Any issues so far? We are making plans to flip to us-west-1
djb_hackernews 8 hours ago 2 replies      
Anyone else seeing ELB/ALB issues?
zerotolerance 7 hours ago 0 replies      
Do the engineering thing and build fault tolerant systems. Maybe adopt features that have been around since 2015:


pfela 7 hours ago 0 replies      
Their status page images are hosted on S3, so will be a while for the green checkmarks to update
balls187 7 hours ago 0 replies      
Thanks for posting this. I've passed this information through my network.

Slack image uploads are hanging.

francesco1975 4 hours ago 0 replies      
mystcb 6 hours ago 0 replies      
Been unreliability informed about 1 hour ETA for a fix. fingers crossed
the_arun 5 hours ago 0 replies      
Quora is down too. Getting 504. Gateway Timeout.

Is it related to S3??

edcoffin 6 hours ago 0 replies      
If you've ever felt the AWS health dashboard was dubious before now...
sonnyhe2002 2 hours ago 0 replies      
Is it down again?
awsoutage 7 hours ago 0 replies      
ttttytjj 6 hours ago 0 replies      
It's fixed... I mean the status page https://status.aws.amazon.com/
simplehuman 5 hours ago 0 replies      
It's still down. All morning! So much business lost.
nvarsj 3 hours ago 0 replies      
eu-west-1 is doing great. Obviously European ops are superior to their US counterparts.
Exuma 7 hours ago 0 replies      
Yep, currently have over 20,000 people on site seeing no images. Wonderful
ondrae 7 hours ago 1 reply      
We're on AWS GovCloud and our S3 is all good. GovCloud is its own region.
vanpupi 5 hours ago 0 replies      
Post your opinion on http://wp.me/p7HKNy-5h
magic_beans 8 hours ago 0 replies      
Definitely experiencing non-loading for dependencies hosted on S3 at the moment...
mwambua 8 hours ago 1 reply      
Not sure if it's related... but I'm having issues with Amazon Cloud-drive.
oaktowner 7 hours ago 0 replies      
Apparently app updates on iOS are failing right now, too. Could be related?
tech4all 7 hours ago 0 replies      
Yes serious API problems started about 15 minutes ago. Around noon central.
booleanbetrayal 8 hours ago 0 replies      
S3 and Elastic Beanstalk (S3 dependencies) ... no issues with RDS at the moment
amcrouch 8 hours ago 0 replies      
It appears to be down. My website runs on S3 and my monitors are going nuts!
outericky 4 hours ago 0 replies      
StatusPage.io survived. Thanks gents.
ajmarsh 6 hours ago 0 replies      
via AWS twitter account "The dashboard not changing color is related to S3 issue.See the banner at the top of the dashboard for updates."
manshoor 5 hours ago 0 replies      
finally status are updated https://goo.gl/wCINaC
oneeyedpigeon 6 hours ago 0 replies      
Finally! The status page admits something's up.
tomharrisonjr 7 hours ago 0 replies      
We're seeing queries using Athena against S3 fail in us-east-1
sk2code 4 hours ago 0 replies      
Now what kind of business choose to remain down for 2 hours plus during the peak business hours?

Seems cloud computing still has a lot to learn.

framebit 7 hours ago 0 replies      
Wow, amazing to watch stuff go down as this problem ripples out!
kolemcrae 7 hours ago 0 replies      
Yup. Every single image on my site is hosted there.... eek! :|
uranian 5 hours ago 0 replies      
Heroku seems to suffer from this too
edgartaor 6 hours ago 0 replies      
QUESTION. There could be data lost from this failure?
dorianm 6 hours ago 0 replies      
Heroku API/Dashboard is down, Bugsnag is down, etc.
dorianm 6 hours ago 0 replies      
Heroku API/Dashboard is down, Bugsnag is down, etc.
austinkurpuis 7 hours ago 0 replies      
Same here. Also having trouble publishing to S3 via CLI and API.
hyperanthony 7 hours ago 0 replies      
Experiencing issues with S3 and ELB for over an hour now.
j_shi 7 hours ago 2 replies      
Is there a list of all apps/services that rely on S3?
shifted316 6 hours ago 0 replies      
The status page is stored in s3. It can't be updated. The page you see is cached in cloudfront. They are working on updating the status page.
rbirkby 6 hours ago 0 replies      
Can anyone get Alexa to play music? Is this related?
exodos 7 hours ago 0 replies      
Yah getting the same error in multiple regions as of 1:12 EST
aabajian 5 hours ago 1 reply      
Leap day bug?
chiph 6 hours ago 0 replies      
I'm seeing problems with Kindle downloads.
twiss 8 hours ago 0 replies      
S3 Ireland (eu-west-1) seems to be doing fine at first sight.
gtrubetskoy 7 hours ago 0 replies      
they're down to 3 nines

edit: for the year, it only takes 52.57 minutes

orn 7 hours ago 0 replies      
I'm trying to reach S3 hosted website, no luck
afshinmeh 7 hours ago 1 reply      
yeah, looks like Travis CI is down, too: https://www.traviscistatus.com
aytekin 7 hours ago 0 replies      
Never depend your business on a single provider.
jacobevelyn 8 hours ago 0 replies      
We're getting errors indicative of an S3 outage too.
Rapzid 8 hours ago 0 replies      
Upload failing for me from Sacramento --> us-east-1
nickstefan12 7 hours ago 0 replies      
bets as to the cause? internal DDoS against their dynamo clusters backing s3? DNS issues between amazon's services?
ianopolous 7 hours ago 0 replies      
I'm seeing the same error on eu-west as well.
magic_beans 6 hours ago 0 replies      
Dashboard has been updated, finally!
grimmdude 7 hours ago 0 replies      
Making an already troublesome day worse. Yeehaw
chx 7 hours ago 0 replies      
hex.pm and docker hub are both failing, a lot of projects can't CI because of these. The house of cards we built.
nicpottier 6 hours ago 0 replies      
SES seems to be down for us as well.
nicpottier 6 hours ago 0 replies      
SES seems to be downf or us as well.
sz4kerto 7 hours ago 0 replies      
Dropbox is down as well. This is going to be gud.
murphy52 6 hours ago 1 reply      
TierPoint, a large hosting service, is reporting a massive DDOS attack on their infrastructure.
Trisell 7 hours ago 1 reply      
US-West(Oregon) just went down as well.
stevefram 8 hours ago 0 replies      
Yes, affecting elb in us-east-1 right now. web services are down and unable to bring up the elb screen in the aws console.
kopy 7 hours ago 0 replies      
Looks like they store the statuses on S3
4wmturner 8 hours ago 0 replies      
Is cli working for anyone else? I can't use the console UI, but aws s3 ls and get commands seem to be working fine.
SubiculumCode 6 hours ago 0 replies      
Mr. Robot live shoot? :)

slack file services down too

soheil 6 hours ago 0 replies      
wow even services like Intercom are affected, I can't see who is on my website right now.
nodefortytwo 7 hours ago 0 replies      
Not seeing any errors from eu-west-1
AzzieElbab 5 hours ago 0 replies      
Netflix is up. Enjoy
jflowers45 7 hours ago 0 replies      
trello and giphy both seemed affected
josephlord 8 hours ago 0 replies      
Looks like it. Brief panic caused here.
_callcc 8 hours ago 0 replies      
SES also down.
rhelsing 8 hours ago 0 replies      
Having issues as well.. big issues..
DocK 6 hours ago 0 replies      
Even Kindle books aren't able to be served; download attempts hang.
murphy52 6 hours ago 0 replies      
We host with TierPoint and they are reporting a massive DDOS attack
rhelsing 7 hours ago 0 replies      
Is this only affecting US-EAST-1?
bseabra 7 hours ago 0 replies      
Same here. We are seeing issues.
thepumpkin1979 6 hours ago 0 replies      
is it just us-east-1? could it be prevented by using a different region?
ARolek 8 hours ago 0 replies      
Same here. US East (N. Virginia)
SubiculumCode 6 hours ago 0 replies      
news.ycombinator.com seems really slow right now. s3 dependencies?
Rockastansky 7 hours ago 0 replies      
Anybody else seeing 500 errors with AWS Cognito for us-east-1?

They are consistent for me.

Beacon11 7 hours ago 1 reply      
Works for me, in us-west-2.
Rockastansky 7 hours ago 0 replies      
Is anyone else also seeing 500 errors for cognito on us-east-1?
qaq 7 hours ago 0 replies      
Cmon but the cloud is magic and very reliable let's move everything to the cloud
mrep 6 hours ago 2 replies      
quite ironic that 'isitdown.com' is also down
vanpupi 5 hours ago 1 reply      
Any opinions you can post on http://wp.me/p7HKNy-5h as well
65827 8 hours ago 0 replies      
Dead as a doornail for me
danielmorozoff 8 hours ago 0 replies      
Yea seeing the same thing
Eyes 7 hours ago 1 reply      
My website is not down.
ahmetcetin 7 hours ago 0 replies      
The same here still
jgacook 8 hours ago 0 replies      
Yup - dead in the water
baconomatic 8 hours ago 0 replies      
Seeing it here as well.
vacri 4 hours ago 0 replies      
So this is particularly weird - one of my instances was showing 0% CPU in CloudWatch (dropped from 60% at the start of the event), but the logs were saying 'load 500'. I ssh'd in... and the problem resolved itself. The only thing I did was run htop to look at the load, and it dropped from 500 (reported in htop) to it's normal level. Just ssh'ing in fixed that issue.
Raphmedia 7 hours ago 0 replies      
Same here in US EAST
xvolter 8 hours ago 0 replies      
Seeing the same here
prab97 7 hours ago 0 replies      
Quora is down too.
TheVip 8 hours ago 0 replies      
Same problem bro...
jsanroman 7 hours ago 0 replies      
It's down :(
0xCMP 8 hours ago 0 replies      
SES is also down
sweddle 6 hours ago 1 reply      
yeah still all green in AWS status.... maybe their red and yellow icons are kept on S3. :-)))
eggie5 7 hours ago 2 replies      
is this affecting dockerhub for anyone?
ahmetcetin 7 hours ago 0 replies      
The same here
jahrichie 7 hours ago 0 replies      
same here, east us seems non-responsive
mtdewulf 8 hours ago 0 replies      
Yep, same here.
AtheistOfFail 6 hours ago 0 replies      
We have a red error, finally!

Source: https://status.aws.amazon.com/

After two hours, they have finally updated their dashboard.

methurston 7 hours ago 0 replies      
Down for me.
kangman 8 hours ago 0 replies      
any one get more info from AWS?
dhairya 7 hours ago 0 replies      
region-west2 is also down
aarondf 7 hours ago 0 replies      
dbg31415 7 hours ago 0 replies      
Yes, appears to be.
cryreduce 8 hours ago 0 replies      
in the s3 web interface requests to S3 backend end with 503 Service Unavailable
davidsawyer 7 hours ago 0 replies      
kangman 8 hours ago 2 replies      
what's the SLA for s3?
the_arun 8 hours ago 0 replies      
Same here
thadjo 7 hours ago 1 reply      
heroku API is down for me
GabeIsman 8 hours ago 0 replies      
davidcollantes 7 hours ago 1 reply      
Azure is also down. Related?
eggie5 7 hours ago 0 replies      
yes, confirmed.
simook 7 hours ago 0 replies      
yes it is.
b01t 7 hours ago 0 replies      
renzy 7 hours ago 0 replies      
getting the same...
thenewregiment2 3 hours ago 0 replies      
soundcloud uses aws s3. it is still down.
fletom 6 hours ago 2 replies      
are you openly admitting that the AWS service status page runs on AWS? because that is far more embarrassing than this downtime ever could be
soheil 7 hours ago 6 replies      
I try not to put all my eggs in one basket, that's why for images I use imgur. They have a great API and it's 100% free. There is a handy ruby gem [1] which takes a user uploaded image and sticks it on imgur and returns its URL with dimensions etc. On top of that you don't have to pay for traffic to those assets.

[1] https://github.com/soheil/imgur

Taek 7 hours ago 7 replies      
Mass outage like this is exactly one of the things we are looking to avoid by building a decentralized storage grid with Sia.

Sia are immune to situations like this because data is stored redundantly across dozens of servers around the world that are all running on different, unique configurations. Furthermore, there's no single central point of control on the Sia network.

Sia is still under heavy development, but it's future featureset and specifications should be able to fully replace the S3 service (including CDN capabilities).


What makes WebAssembly fast? mozilla.org
127 points by nfriedly  4 hours ago   91 comments top 12
rocky1138 9 minutes ago 1 reply      
On one hand, I'm excited about performance improvements. On the other, I lament the fact that this will kill one of the best parts of the web: the fact that the source is sent to the end user instead of a binary. It now makes the code and how it works opaque, thus killing the spirit of innovation and learning.
Svenskunganka 2 hours ago 3 replies      
> In the last article, I explained that programming with WebAssembly or JavaScript is not an either/or choice. We dont expect that too many developers will be writing full WebAssembly code bases.

I see this statement all the time, but it doesn't make sense. If you're looking at any programming language out there, they all have a growing members of their community asking and showing interest in targeting WebAssembly for their language of choice. It's not just C/C++. Go, Rust, Ruby, Python, Crystal, Nim, D, and many more. Now you might get the reaction that "meh, why would anyone write web apps with Rust?", but that's an irrelevant question. Companies are going to see this as an opportunity to save resources and become more efficient, especially since wasm has so much better perf than JITed JS and the possibility of going isomorphic is a reality (back-end & front-end written in Ruby for example, deriving from the exact same codebase and shares code).

Now I'm not saying "WebAssembly will take over JS!", what I'm saying is that it perhaps, possibly, maybe will. It will depend on these languages and how they add support for it, what abstractions and integrations they provide with their current ecosystems. And of course, how WebAssembly will improve over the coming years.

TazeTSchnitzel 3 hours ago 3 replies      
The edge over asm.js is a subset of this. Obviously, asm.js neither has JIT reoptimisation overhead, nor garbage collection to worry about.

However, a weird, highly-annotated strict subset of JS is not the ideal representation of what is basically portable assembly language. WebAssembly's big strength over asm.js is it has smaller executables and they can be rapidly decoded and verified in binary IR form, rather than having to shove megabytes of ungzipped bracket-fest through a JS parser.

ClassyJacket 59 minutes ago 3 replies      
>At least for now, WebAssembly does not support garbage collection at all. Memory is managed manually (as it is in languages like C and C++). While this can make programming more difficult for the developer, it does also make performance more consistent.

I support anything that improves performance and efficiency. But the best of both worlds is always great. I'm wondering if it would be possible to implement reference counting (and maybe automatic reference counting) similar to Objective-C, and if so, would that simply be a matter of the particular language and WebAssembly transpiler you're using supporting it? And are there disadvantages to reference counting that make it a bad idea? I enjoyed using it doing earlier iPhone programming.

kristianp 12 minutes ago 0 replies      
When compiled from C/C++, does WASM do bounds checking of pointers and arrays? What kind of memory safety does it offer?
lacampbell 3 hours ago 4 replies      
I really hope web assembly takes off and becomes a thing wide implemented in all the major browsers. The web is such a fantastic application platform (despite its frequent misuse...), and removing the javascript performance tax will be huge.
pmontra 2 hours ago 6 replies      
> At least for now, WebAssembly does not support garbage collection at all. Memory is managed manually (as it is in languages like C and C++). While this can make programming more difficult for the developer, it does also make performance more consistent.

Ouch, back to the 80s, early 90s. I think I'll stick with JavaScript at least until WebAssembly gets garbage collection. I might be wrong but I don't see many people writing SPAs in C++ for the extra speed (let's say, the JS layer acting like an X Server for the DOM, driven by a C++/WebAssembly application). Games, yes.

Furthermore JS has view source. WebAssembly has a text format [1] but it's really assembly. Hopefully there will be source maps [2].

[1] http://webassembly.org/docs/text-format/

[2] http://webassembly.org/docs/tooling/

johncolanduoni 2 hours ago 1 reply      
Is WebAssembly's binary format finalized? I wasn't able to find anything about it, but about two weeks ago binaryen pushed a new release[1] whose notes said "update wasm version to 0x01, in prep for release, and since browsers are ready to accept it".

From what I had heard the plan was not to do that until the final standard was settled on, but I wasn't able to find any corresponding announcement.

[1]: https://github.com/WebAssembly/binaryen/releases/tag/version...

etimberg 2 hours ago 0 replies      
I recall seeing a test compile of some C++ code to WebAssembly instead of JS and on Chrome it was an order of magnitude slower than the JS version. Has the performance increased lately?
daurnimator 2 hours ago 1 reply      
What's the point if you can't interact with the DOM?Almost all examples of webassembly just render to a canvas.

Does this mean instead of a normal "native app" I'm going to start getting C applications compiled with wasm and distributed in electron? What does this possibly gain the end user?

astrodust 3 hours ago 7 replies      
It's both amusing and absurd that what was practically intended as Java's little helper, JavaScript, has grown up to be this thing that might actually replace Java entirely.

How long until there's a really good JVM written in JavaScript of some form and embedded Java apps end up running in JavaScript for performance and security reasons?

It'll be even more ridiculous and hilarious if the "j" in "jruby" ends up meaning "JavaScript".

msoad 3 hours ago 2 replies      
I can totally see Qt a and .NET apps running on top WebAssembly. Imagine MS Word is running in your browser without them having to rewrite it in JS!
Satirical Summaries of Hackernews n-gate.com
54 points by yumaikas  1 hour ago   12 comments top 10
hkmurakami 3 minutes ago 0 replies      
This is amazing.

"The Rust Evangelism Strikeforce" is particularly brilliant.

Vivtek 1 minute ago 0 replies      
I didn't see anybody swooning over Elon Musk on this page. Is that pass now?
vortico 31 minutes ago 0 replies      
This is fantastic. To the author: Don't stop summarizing these because this will be my new source of Hacker News posts and if you stop, I'll be living in a vacuum.
bigiain 1 hour ago 0 replies      
This would have been a much better submission if it were hosted on my experimental port of Wordpress written in Rust, instead of legacy html on Werk...
ucaetano 30 minutes ago 1 reply      
Does it use convolutional recursive space invariant artificial deep neural networks?
tyingq 6 minutes ago 0 replies      
Pure gold all around. My favorite bit:

"the Rust Evangelism Strikeforce stages a sortie, but meets resistance."

ucaetano 24 minutes ago 0 replies      
I'm looking forward for the summary of this post.
simplehuman 23 minutes ago 0 replies      
This is brilliant. Thank you so much and do not stop writing :) any way to follow this on RSS?

It would be so meta if you summarized this post.

aantix 34 minutes ago 0 replies      
Please tell me these are algorithmic satirical summaries...? And the source is on Github. :)
partycoder 36 minutes ago 1 reply      
There is another community devoted to make fun of sites like Hacker News, that I found by accident: https://www.reddit.com/r/programmingcirclejerk/
A JavaScript deep learning and reinforcement learning library github.com
42 points by sdomino  2 hours ago   9 comments top 2
vonnik 17 minutes ago 0 replies      
Just curious: Where does the computation happen? Is it all Javascript?
platz 1 hour ago 5 replies      
I get why deep learning is nice but I just do not get the hype around reinforcement learning yet. RL seems great for things like training video game agents and have seen videos of this, but fail to understand where RL can be applied in the real world.

It reminds me a bit of genetic algorithms. GA is the 'last resort' when you truly know nothing about how to model your problem.

What is the sweet spot for RL?

Deep Voice: Real-Time Neural Text-To-Speech baidu.com
53 points by PieSquared  3 hours ago   23 comments top 6
PieSquared 1 hour ago 2 replies      
Hey there! I'm one of the authors of the paper and I'm happy to answer any questions anyone may have!

Make sure to check out the paper on arxiv as well.

mrmaximus 1 hour ago 2 replies      
Interesting. They are not TTS like we are accustomed to, they are replicating a specific persons voice with TTS. Listen to the ground-truth recordings at the bottom and then the synthesized versions above. "Fake News" is about to get a lot more compelling when you can make anyone say anything as long as you have some previous recordings of their voice.
computerwizard 1 hour ago 0 replies      
I have A LOT of pdf's I'd much rather listen to than read. Can't wait for this!
dresaj8 1 hour ago 3 replies      
does anyone know of good ways to do the opposite, speech to text?
hprotagonist 1 hour ago 1 reply      
how does this stack up against wavenet?
monk_e_boy 1 hour ago 1 reply      
OK, that went from uncanny valley to flipping amazing. I could picture the person speaking. An old lady. A young woman. It was hard to picture an algorithm in a machine.

It's amazing that is all boils down to 1s and 0s and some boolean logic.

Show HN: HTTPLab An interactive web server github.com
78 points by gchaincl  5 hours ago   13 comments top 7
cpeth 2 hours ago 3 replies      
Couldn't you just pipe a response file to netcat running on 80?

cat response.html | nc -lp 80

int0x2e 3 hours ago 0 replies      
This is really cool. Any plans for HTTPS support? This could be a really powerful tool for network based reverse engineering (even more so if there was support for predefined request-response pairs so more elaborate cases could be done)
jkbr 3 hours ago 0 replies      
Looks like a great tool for ad hoc testing of HTTP clients. Exactly what I often need during development of the client you use in the demo :)
kaustubhvp 1 hour ago 0 replies      
this is pretty impressive. can you add HTTPS support please.
TheSmoke 2 hours ago 2 replies      
good job. a similar tool called wuzz [0] was released like a month ago.

[0] https://github.com/asciimoo/wuzz/

yousif_s 2 hours ago 0 replies      
I was looking for something like this a couple of days back. Looks cool.
the_greyd 4 hours ago 0 replies      
Heh This is pretty cool.
Ask HN: How would you turn Twitter around?
299 points by bsvalley  10 hours ago   466 comments top 187
nikcub 7 hours ago 9 replies      
1. cut costs by a lot. they shouldn't be spending $2B per year

2. allow the apps to be used without a login - with the default view showing 'what is on now'. almost every member of my family has attempted to use twitter at some point and just been confused.

3. reformat all the explore pages into ordinary twitter streams

4. acquire nuzzel. their view of 'whats on now' is better than twitter's view

5. drop the video passion-project nonsense. you don't need to own content to use twitter alongside it. strike deals with the content providers instead where tweets are shown alongside (this is already being done) and become a partner to content owners and distributors rather than a competitor

6. improve the core product for users. group messaging, longer tweets, only show replies from people who are authenticated or two degrees away from you by default, etc. etc. (and pro accounts, if you wish)

7. let people pay to get a checkmark, and then let users pay to flair tweets they like

8. better tools for businesses who provide support on twitter. let them pay to use it as a platform and properly authenticate their customers on twitter

9. ditto above but for marketing

dotBen 8 hours ago 13 replies      
Refocus the company to be the Netflix of live TV, focusing on the delivery of live sports and news broadcasts while enabling fans/viewers to discuss in real time.

It's a greenfield space no one else is really jumping upon yet. Focus may have turned to on-demand TV, but people still want to watch sports live, and Twitter already has acquired some of those deals as the sport franchises get more comfortable with online distribution. Trump's tweets, the presidential debates broadcast on Twitter and the fact people turn to Twitter during breaking news make it a logical extension to move into news and possibly finance too.

Twitter's modern-day utility seems very low outside of news/sports/politics and the average joe has moved their engagement to more visual platforms like Instagram and Snapchat where it is much easier to create and consume more personal content and updates.

Twitter would also be able to focus their monetization and advertising efforts around a much tighter content and audience niche. Plus consumers are used to paying for some of this premium content, making monetization of a freemium model even easier.

lhnz 8 hours ago 7 replies      
I would try to eat journalism.

I would create a system where subscription to News on Twitter helps to automate payment for individual articles.

 1. The lede or quote gets pulled into the tweet. 2. http://t.co becomes a payment-debiting gateway (402 Payment Required).
Basically, you would monetise the audience on behalf of the publishers who would be able to make their paywalls more porous.

Almost everybody would benefit from this arrangement:

 - Users would no longer need to buy multiple newspaper subscriptions. - Journalists would be better positioned to ask for revenue share. - Publishers could gain a larger paying market without needing to coax user's through the account creation and subscription signup hoops.
Edit: If anyone in Twitter wants to do this, please hire me - I'd be super interested to work on it. Wouldn't even need to be the CEO. ;)

JumpCrisscross 5 hours ago 1 reply      
I'd tear it apart until all that's left is a profitable, maintainable core. Like Craigslist.

Twitter's payroll (to say nothing of its stock-based compensation expense) is bloated. Slashing staff isn't a popular play. This is a textbook private equity deal.

Twitter's habit of ringing in the year with $500MM losses could be single-handedly cut with a 2/3rd staffing reduction (which costs lots in payroll and $800MM in stock-based compensation expense). How much of Twitter's $2bn in revenue would evaporate post-cuts. Over half? Still leaves $750MM of pre-tax income before R&D ($800MM in the FYE 2015). Cut that R&D budget in half, say you lose a further 25% of revenues, and you still have $160MM before taxes yielding $100MM of net income. That's worth $1bn to $2.5bn.

If you can grow that to $500MM over 4 or 5 years, you could sell it for ~20x. Discount back at 10% or 20% and you have an optimistic valuation of $4 to $7bn.

Twitter's trading at just under $12bn. I suppose I'd bid $3.50 per share and be willing to entertain someone talking just under $10 a share.

jraines 8 hours ago 7 replies      
- Get rid of modals for everything. Especially: when clicking on a tweet to view replies, open a new page with better threading of replies, pagination, and no reordering (or optional "quality" reordering). Twitter is a forum on speed; take some good ideas from forums. Right now it's a forum on speed and acid.

- Have more options for blocking, including "block this person and everyone who follows them or followed them within last N days"

- Fix trending topic spam. Seriously, how is this so bad? Free advice: for every trending topic a tweet mentions over 1 in a single tweet, the probability that it's spam asymptotically approaches 1.

- Allow an unambiguous, never "played with", chronological timeline. Have a separate view that's your ML playground. The "In case you missed it" and "tweets you might like" features are good but I don't want them randomly appearing in my timeline.

- Allow alternate clients, even if you have to charge a fee.

- Similarly, create a separate free developer-focused API but clearly identify all tweets posted via that as "bot" and allow people to never see tweets posted by a bot, or tweets posted by a bot @ them. Tweets posted from the "alternative client" paid API would not be subject to this marking.

- Identify "sleeper cell" bots -- accounts inactive for a long time that suddenly become active, usually around a single topic, concurrent with many similar bots, and aggressively ban them.

- Do more and better things with Lists. Don't just show me 3 people to follow (usually clearly just based on the last person I looked at). Show me algorithmically curated suggested lists, popular lists, allow me to sort those by # of members, easily find lists that user X belongs to, etc., mark lists as low quality/harassment vehicles. Surface good content shared by my interest lists somewhere other than the timeline.

- My personal #1: give me the likestream of the people I follow. This is easily more interesting than their actual tweets, at least to me. Something like a quarter of my usage these days is visiting individual accounts "Likes" pages. At least use this data in the aforementioned algorithmic curation of Lists/suggested follows.

warcher 2 hours ago 2 replies      
There are a few camps of people using twitter, which want different things and are mostly being badly served.

1) Trolls love twitter. The legion of racist eggs sowing destruction for no other reason than their own nihilistic enjoyment is an existential threat to the business and must be culled. The company and the trolls cannot live together in peace. One or the other will die. It feels like twitter hasn't figured out it's them or you. There can be no 1st amendment compromise here. These guys are ruining you for fun. They gotta go.

2) Public figures. It's a good platform for them. Cull the trolls and they'll stay, bringing an audience of

3) Regular people, who need a nice feedback loop of people interacting with their tiny little voices. Twitter is pretty shitty at this right now-- if you don't have an audience, you're shouting into the void and are eventually going to figure out you're wasting your time and quit. This is shitty for engagement and it's sinking twitter. Facebook figured this out already. Just copy them.

4) The last group is "brands" and for-profit companies who are your actual customers, but who would like to free ride on the platform, soaking up the attention of the regular people for free. If they want access, they gotta pay. No free riding for non-people. Facebook also figured this one out. If you're not a human, and not a public figure, and you want the attention of humans, pay up. Twitter is also slowly figuring this out.

There's a virtuous cycle of engagement here, and Twitter is slowly getting it straight, but they gotta cull a lot of trolls, spammers, and free riders, and that's going to hurt their monthly usage numbers. The management of that haircut is probably over my pay grade, but it seems like they're slowly getting it together with the algorithmic timeline. Had to be done. Livelock is a real thing for people who don't tweet professionally.

AliAdams 8 hours ago 9 replies      
My greatest problem with twitter is that those whose who have something worth saying tend to talk an awful lot less than those with nothing to say.

I want twitter to be a feed of thoughts an opinions from people I respect, or important updates from companies I'm interested in.

I see a secondary value from twitter by people contributing to a conversation around an event, be that a sports game, a site outage, a traffic jam or an unfolding natural disaster.

Filtering out / systemically discouragingly a lot of the countless low-value/self promotional posts alongside a better hashtag (channel) view would be a great start.

david-cako 5 hours ago 2 replies      
Making the UX not shit is a great start.

Twitter is really an unpleasant site to use for following discussions of any sort. When I click a thread-view for a post, I want to see a clear tree-view of all of the posts and replies like any other sane website, not the current flat-layout bullshit wherein you have no clue what the chronology of anything is, or who is responding to what.

There are a lot of good ideas in this thread for how twitter can refocus and monetize itself, but I think before all that you need to make it a site that more people enjoy using beyond its original use case of "waiting at the airport -- hmu".

jamesk_au 7 hours ago 2 replies      
This analysis from Ben Thompson (Stratechery[1]) just yesterday would be a great place to start:

"Imagine a Twitter app that, instead of a generic Moment that is little more than Twitters version of a thousand re-blogs, let you replay your Twitter stream from any particular moment in time. Miss the Oscars gaffe? Not only can you watch the video, you can read the reactions as they happen, from the people you actually care enough to follow. Or maybe see the reactions through someone elses eyes: choose any other user on Twitter, and see what they saw as the gaffe happened.

What is so powerful about this seemingly simple feature is that it would commoditize live in a way that is only possibly digitally, and that would uniquely benefit the company: now the experience of live (except for the shock value) would be available at any time, from any perspective, and only on Twitter. That such a feature does not exist indeed, that the companys stated goal is to become more like old media, instead of uniquely leveraging digital is as good an explanation for why the company has foundered as any."

[1] https://stratechery.com/2017/twitter-live-and-luck/

ProfessorLayton 6 hours ago 1 reply      
1. Remove senior management. They do not know what they're doing.

2. Experiment and find the right point between monetizing users and those that get the most value out of Twitter. Right now users' eyeballs are being bled dry, and getting their experience ruined with tons of ads, and timeline shuffling. It feels like those with tons of followers are getting a free ride at the expense of everyone else.

3. Introduce meaningful timeline features such as: 3a. Ability to follow #hashtags/topics instead of just people and companies. Curated "Moments" are a weak substitute. 3b. Follow geographical areas of interest (e.g. Top Tweets in Oakland, SOMA etc.) 3c. Ability to explore Twitter geographically. Again, I feel this is a huge and untapped. Heard something crazy happen over your neighborhood? Pull up an map and explore what people are saying around there.

4. Actually do something about trolls (Perhaps a reputation system?)

5. Clamp down on bots. Why is it even possible to follow 300k or a few million people?

6. Slim down the workforce, by a lot, unfortunately. I don't think a sustainable Twitter can ever be a large as it is today.

7. Bigger focus on live TV + discussion

8. Fix search: Its awful and nearly useless unless you put in a ton of effort in "advanced search". Top results are often times just the same retweets and news articles over and over again.

I could keep going...

kneel 8 hours ago 3 replies      
I consider myself pretty tech oriented but I've never understood twitter, this is probably just my own stupidity but I've tried several times and it never makes sense.

I mostly just see replies to other conversations and I don't understand the context. Scrolling through the timeline I can't parse structure, it just seems chaotic.

Barely anyone I know uses twitter. It just seems to be a way to follow celebrities and politicians, I don't really care what they have to say.

I'm probably missing something here.

DigitalSea 3 hours ago 3 replies      
1. Move the office to a city other than San Francisco where the costs of living aren't exorbitantly high. Plenty of other cities that have lower costs of living and would offer tax breaks for a company like Twitter. Allow employees to remotely work if they want.

2. Reduce salaries and lay some people off. Having seen how many people work for Twitter and how big their office is on Market street, some people need to go. Realise this wouldn't be popular, but Twitter is spending way too much cash.

3. Reduce the size of the ridiculous buffet they have for lunches, make it a fixed menu with 3 or 4 meals to prevent food waste. Get rid of the free alcohol and soft drink they seem to offer.

4. Actually, embrace developers, make the API limits more generous and allow developers to build cool things like the early days of Twitter.

5. Raise the character limit (even make this a premium feature, double it to 280 characters).

6. Get rid of Jack as CEO, it's not working. Twitter is losing money, they're not innovating and they keep focusing on things like video which most don't care for.

7. Focus on the core product and get rid of the Google-like dream products.

The way I see it, Twitter isn't a complicated idea. It's somewhat predictable size text strings being shown in a feed. Twitter is the kind of app you clone when you're learning a framework like Ruby on Rails, it's not a complicated idea from a technical standpoint. There is no reason to be spending two-billion per year.

Grue3 8 hours ago 3 replies      
1. Remove post length limit.2. Limit the number of tweets per day instead.3. You can pay to remove the above limit.

This solves the problem of timeline being unreadable once you subscribe to enough people. Ain't nobody got time to read all that crap. Once everyone is rate-limited, everyone can easily digest their timeline. Without length limit, tweets become more thoughtful.

4. Fix the UI. Make it easy to view replies. Make it easy to view embedded images. Make it lean and fast. That would give Twitter advantage over similarly bloated services.

5. Anti-trolling measures. This one is really obvious! There should be no indication that you're blocked by another person, they just don't see you anymore. If the blocked person doesn't know they're blocked, they don't get the satisfaction of being blocked, and they don't know when they need to create another account to annoy you. This should be the basic rule when you implement a blocking feature.

6. Open up API. This one is obvious.

mindcrash 8 hours ago 5 replies      
* Remove Jack from CEO position

* Let Evan return as CEO (merge with Medium)

... this will restore Twitter management to the situation around 2010, then ...

* Reform or cancel the Trust & Safety council

* Restore open API access and app ecosystem

* Remove side wide censorship tools, add self censorship tools (a la Gab)

* Reverse the timeline changes

* Stop pandering to far left ideologues

Something like that?

thisnotmyacc 34 minutes ago 0 replies      
Set a goal of $1 billion yearly profit by 2020. That places the value at PE of 20 PE (2/3rds of Alphabets 29.9) at ~$20 billion, which is ~2 times their current valuation.

Assuming 5% YoY growth in revenue, which is about 2% growth in users combined with a 2% better yield, both of which are imminently doable, the current $2.5B revenue grows to about $3B.

According to their 2016 financial statement, http://files.shareholder.com/downloads/AMDA-2F526X/398748660..., Twitter spent 2.668B in 2016. So that means Twitter needs to cut costs by 20% by 2020 to hit my goal of $1bn profit.

Twitter spent $800 million on each of their three big areas, which they list as "Cost of revenue", "Research and development" and "Sales and marketing". If you can shave off 40% from each of "Research and development" and "Sales and marketing", costs hit $2Billion give or take, and goal achieved.

None of that is silicon valley swing for the moon sexy, and it seems pretty unremarkable in a world of hype and excess. But $3B in revenue and $2bn in costs seems achievable by 2020.

miles_matthias 8 hours ago 1 reply      
Focus on engagement. Twitter's value is LIVE, but they've never leveraged push notifications and text messages in a way that makes sure you never miss out when important/relevant conversations are happening, so how are you supposed to know when there's interesting content to engage with?

Right now you can turn on notifications for a user's tweets, but that gives you push notifications for all of their tweets which is super annoying. Also, 99% of users don't know that exists.

Their recent move to make trending topics and search more visible in the iPhone app is a step in the right direction but they're a long ways off.

FOMO and live is how they're different from Facebook. I can always go back to Facebook at any time and they'll show me what I missed and I can still engage with it. With Twitter, the discussion has come and gone and I'm left out if I don't know it's happening.

ededdeddie38 8 minutes ago 0 replies      
SEPARATE "celebrity and news sources" FROM "friends and family"

You need limitless thumb scrolling energy to find tweets from friends.

divbit 9 hours ago 2 replies      
I want to watch the superbowl from twitter: https://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/15/technology/with-nfl-deal-... I have no idea how to watch the superbowl and I tried several apps. I had cable tv for like 1 year of highschool, and haven't felt any reason to purchase for myself since, but some things, like the superbowl / Olympics / World Cup etc. would be really great to be able to watch - no I'm not going to deal with cable / buying a TV just for 1-3 events yearly.
takeda 7 minutes ago 0 replies      
Twitter should never have succeed, it is a solution for a problem that never existed. It used funding money to artificially manufacture the need for it, to a point that news station started using it as a news source, which is IMO ridiculous.

I think it should just die. I never had a Twitter account and never thought that I'm missing something.

The only utility that twitter was providing was already solved by RSS feeds.

OliverJones 5 hours ago 1 reply      
Imposing a modest signal cost should improve the signal - to - noise ratio substantially.

Charge for reach. Ask accounts with more than 50K followers to either pay for all followers to receive tweets, or limit distribution to 50K followers, randomly chosen.

It's the accounts with many followers that get the most benefit from the platform.

And, a twitter crack could, in present circumstances, cause global political instability. The accounts with > 50K followers, if compromised, are the accounts that could cause this sort of problem. Why shouldn't the users of those accounts shoulder at least some of the cost of securing the service and making it fast?

Another possibiity: the Bloomberg Terminal biz model. Charge consumers of twitter for timeliness, and delay messages to unpaid consumers and general feeds. Allow originators of messages to purchase timeliness for their own messages, even to unpaid consumers.

ProAm 8 hours ago 2 replies      
Layoff everyone except for the bare minimum to keep the company operational (~100-200 people), take it private and print money for 10 years then let it naturally sunset itself.
chintan 8 hours ago 2 replies      
Make it a protocol. again. http://www.paulgraham.com/twitter.html
grandalf 7 hours ago 2 replies      
I think Twitter is already pretty great. My suggestions are below:

- Twitter is a platform, open it up to allow any clients first class access.

- Stop political censorship immediately. It's fine to prevent scams and bot-nets, but do not stifle political speech.

- Lower burn rate. Cancel all of the product-oriented projects that are expensive, simply focus on building the infrastructure to make Twitter's platform as inexpensive as possible to maintain. I'd estimate 10% of Twitter's employees are actually needed.

- Be very cautious about ads. Do not compare yourself to Facebook for ad revenue generation. This is a long-term decision that will require adequate funding to undertake.

thehardsphere 7 hours ago 0 replies      
Focus on the core business and aggressively eliminate any and all costs not directly associated with it. It's ridiculous that they're one of the most popular websites on Earth that makes ~$2bn/year, yet they manage to piss it all away on things that don't noticably improve their service.

What Twitter really needs is to be bought up by some Wall Street type who can look at their books and do just that, and not much more.

sumitgt 7 hours ago 1 reply      
Turn the entire business model 180 degrees. This might be very radical, but hear me out.

1) Creating a twitter profile (with tweeting privileges) costs $5. Profiles without tweeting privileges are free.

2) Once you have 10000 followers, you need to pay additional $$ per year. This fees increases exponentially as you gain more followers. Eg. Famous people pay a lot. Unless this $ is paid, the follower count caps up and the follow button disappears from the profile.

3) Stop considering no of active user profiles as a metric entirely.

4) Regular non-famous people can create profiles (that do not have option for others to follow), but can follow famous paying users for free.

5) If a normal non-famous person wants to chime into the conversation, they pay a one-time fee of $5 to become a paid user. Now they can tweet and have followers. If they ever get too famous, they might have to pay again to unlock ability to have 10000+ followers.

This way you try to charge the users who actually have the money to spend. Let's admit, people with high follower counts like politicians do gain a lot from twitter, and would probably pay for un-mediated access to the population.

This also fixes the problem of junk / troll accounts.

pjc50 5 hours ago 0 replies      
Have this conversation on Twitter. Listen to the users!


USERS: we love twitter but it has problems

TWITTER: great we'll fix them

USERS: do you want to know what they are

TWITTER: absolutely not

(18k likes, 14k RTs)

USERS: could you at least look at addressing the pervasive harassment of women

TWITTER [twirling like Maria von Trapp]: M O M E N T S


USERS: you're alienating the people who actually use your product

TWITTER: likes are now florps

USERS: what

TWITTER: timeline goes sideways

dylanhassinger 10 hours ago 3 replies      
Get rid of the multimedia content types

Revert it back to pure text, which can include any type of url

Make the tweets always load chronologically

Make the interface faster loading and less JavaScripty

open up the API

basically, turn it back into #OldTwitter from 2010

Oxitendwe 6 hours ago 0 replies      
Well, for one I would stop banning and restricting people for expressing their opinions. Your phone company wouldn't disconnect your service for leaving nasty messages on someone's mailbox, so Twitter shouldn't ban people for writing nasty messages to people. It's not their responsibility and I think society suffers from their judgement of what is allowed and what isn't - how can you promote understanding and bring people closer together when one side of the argument is being silenced and marginalized? People who break laws should be dealt with by the legal system. People that do not shouldn't have to worry about their ability to communicate with people being curtailed.

If you think this sort of thing doesn't happen, read this: http://blog.dilbert.com/post/157826468646/nothing-to-see-her... , or http://blog.dilbert.com/post/157201503761/freedom-of-speech-... . He's had problems with this for months, because of his political blogging, and this is just one example. If it can happen to the guy who made Dilbert, it can happen to anyone.

jonathansizz 3 hours ago 0 replies      
1. Allow limited following of accounts. Right now, when you follow someone, it's either all (default) or nothing (if you mute/unfollow). But in many cases, I'm only interested in a subset of someone's tweets, on certain topics. For example, I'd follow many more scientists if I could just see their tweets on science, but not see their political or personal or sports-related tweets, which add too much noise to my feed. This would also be good for tweeters, as they could freely tweet about anything they like without risk of alienating followers.

Maybe Twitter could use the hashtag system to accomplish this?

2. Make replies work better. Relax the character limit for replies to several hundred characters, make replies threaded, make low-quality replies go away, and high-quality replies float to the top (just like HN). Remove the line noise by having @ and # symbols not show up in the feed. Hashtags and mentions also shouldn't use up any characters. If all this happens, it will become reasonable to have actual conversations on Twitter.

3. Stop showing me duplicate tweets. Once I've seen a tweet, I shouldn't see it again if it's reposted (something many media outlets tend to do frequently).

Actions like this will make Twitter a better experience for regular users, and should help to kickstart growth.

4. Charge whales (those with the most followers, who disproportionately benefit from using Twitter) actual monthly fees.

p0nce 53 minutes ago 0 replies      
- for the longest time I've wished to tweet to a subpart of my followers; Then only way to have that is multiple account right now. Let me follow "person X + #hashtag".

- support multiple accounts on the website

- Twitter ads do not seem as valuable as other ad services, there is not enough reason to buy them.

- remove the bots

- Twitter need a way to lessen noise from talkative people. Something between muting and following. See point 1.

- order the tweets by most recent, like it was previously. Ordering by popularity ensures your tweets are dwarfed by the popular GIF of the day.

collinglass 7 hours ago 1 reply      
One thing for sure, I would remove posting privileges from the API.

Yes it is a bold move. It has a great platform ecosystem but the amount of automation you can do is what removes the value from the platform. For example, followers mean nothing anymore and auto-DMs from people I recently followed is an Ah-NO moment.

Instagram and LinkedIn have kept POSTing out of their API for the most part. One reason (of the many) they are thriving is because people know it's all handmade engagement.

colinplamondon 8 hours ago 0 replies      
- Focus and elevate video content. Entire TV episodes are sometimes made public on Twitter - there's no way to surface this. When The Expanse has a new episode, it should go into a tab that's YouTube on Twitter.

- Pay video creators out the ass to get them to dual-publish from YouTube, and create auto-sync features that let them publish in both locations. Build in live-streaming functionality to compete with Twitch.

- "Async realtime". When watching a show, make it possible to replay Homeland tweets from the time you start. If you watch an Apple Keynote later, make the realtime tweets replay, and make it possible to add your own.

- Allow different engagement models. If someone has a whiff of abuse in their feed, make it trivial for them to see only verified + low risk users. The moment someone sends an @message to someone they've never conversed with with a single abusive word, crank the risk on them. If someone wants to engage with the firehose, make that the default.

- Make it easy to "import" feeds. I've had at least 3 friends ask me who to follow, and then we spend 15 minutes scrolling through my follow list, they manually look them up. When a new user registers on Twitter, I should be able to pick 3 people I'm most interested in following, and it should then recommend the people they like the most.

- It should be one-click to "super follow" someone, and get all their follows into my feed. Make it trivial to get an awesome, active feed. And trivial to reduce noise when I'm not interested in something.

Sir_Cmpwn 8 hours ago 0 replies      
Fire almost everyone. Cease innovation and roll several things back. Open the API up more. Limit spending to what you can afford and coast forever. Growth is overrated.
itomato 8 hours ago 0 replies      
- Keep it as a pure and simple timeline. Don't show me tweets I may have missed. Make me chase them down.

- No character penalty for URLs

- Let people play with the data and metadata, exposing fake accounts is good for all

- Encourage bots to be bots

- Stump the chumps. Make this type of charade harder to pull off: @rea1DonaldTrump vs. @realDonaldTrump

peterhunt 1 hour ago 0 replies      
I believe Twitter's key problem is that they do not take enough product, monetization, and growth risks, either because they are too afraid to, or their org can't execute quickly enough.

1. Pay as much cash as you need to (even if it means laying off a few people) and hire one or two of FB's monetization and growth leaders, preferably away from a team like Instagram. Give them the freedom and resources to grow the team they want.

2. Based on what Twitter has done with the product over the past few years (i.e. not a lot), the product management team is too risk-averse. I would fire them and acquire a few startups to build a more aggressive PM team that knows when to listen to users/metrics and when to ignore them.

3. Partnerships team seems to be great. I would incentivize them to stay.

4. Twitter should invest in experienced engineering management to refocus the team. They have open-sourced four (four!) separate message brokers, and I heard that they had five internally recommended JS frameworks at one point. They should standardize on one boring stack for all new development and move all new development to the cloud.

johan_larson 8 hours ago 0 replies      

I'm guessing Twitter has about as many users as it can ever hope to have, which means it's no longer about growth, it's about profits. That means it's time to cut costs, largely in engineering. You need a far smaller team to run a service and make incremental improvements than you need to grow a service aggressively.

davidiach 4 hours ago 0 replies      
I would have a product recommendation. Twitter missed the change to be a player in the chat space, but it could still offer a chat experience that other services can't.

Imagine Twitter would start offering users the possibility to create group chats where only the invited users can write in but that others could follow in real time.

So lets say there is an Apple keynote and @BenedictEvans, @asymco and @gruber start a group chat where they comment the event. I get a notification that this group chat started and I can go and follow it (the same way I could follow a live video). I can't comment myself, but I can follow their conversation (and maybe hit the like button from time to time). Because it's a chat, the participants will write much more than they would if they would be only limited to tweeting.

It's crazy that in 2017 we can see celebrities interacting with each other via video, tweets,snaps, Facebook comments and so on, but there is no option to follow a real time chat between them.

PTPells 1 hour ago 1 reply      
Make profiles more robust. Features could include: Event creation A forum/group tab so followers of a specific account could more easily communicate with each other Expanded "About" section Custom calls-to-action (i.e. "Sign Up," "Message," "Shop," etc.)

Allow people to publish more content natively. Such as: Long-form writing Long-form video

maytc 24 minutes ago 0 replies      
Make the twitter feed relevant my modeling the presentation and curation like reddit topics.
joeld42 2 hours ago 0 replies      
Admit that it's a (better) chatroom and tailor it to that use case. It's not a new thing. Go super-aggressively after abuse, bots, etc. even if it hurts your bottom line short term, it will help it long term. Don't make statements about addressing abuse, just do it. It will be noticed. Stop focusing on growth, focus on quality of users. Make a tier of "verified" accounts that anyone can get -- subscription is fine. They verify their real contact info with you, they get a verified badge. Make eggs not able to dm or mention for two weeks. Let me right-click to save animated gifs. Allow "extended" tweets that start with 140 characters but you can click through to more, for when it's time for some game theory. Shadowban the potus.
yumaikas 4 hours ago 0 replies      
Offer Twitter Gold: A gilded account can post tweets that are 288 (144*2) characters long. Add other nice, but slightly costly features as they make sense.

Occasionally do "announce" tweets that explain "well-known" twitter features to help people be able to set it up better. Twitter could learn from Slack or Discord in this regard.

Others have suggested cleaning up the engineering org, that seems like a good organizational idea, but is going to be tricky to pull off.

Implement a feature or set of features to discourage bandwagon-hating. Twitter has been instrumental in destroying a non-trivial amount of careers, sometimes over things that were mere bad taste. Perhaps a limit on the number of responses a tweet can have, or rate limiting on how fast a negative tweet loads, or something. I'm not sure, but having them put some serious UX research into this problem would be a great reputation boost, if we know they are doing it.

baron816 2 hours ago 0 replies      
I mentioned this in another thread recently: let users have about 10K followers for free, and then charge them for followers after that. A lot of celebrities straight up profit from sending out a tweet endorsing a brand. Twitter should get a cut of that and I think this would be a fair and easy way to do so. People pay for their influence.
xemdetia 7 hours ago 0 replies      
Aggressively use twitter to eat Yahoo Finance. There is a type of consumer that cares about twitter only in context to market/happenings and they have one of the best feeds for it. I don't want it to look like twitter, it should just be a totally separate product that takes advantage of being a primary user of twitter's data without being external. Make it a freemium service where the premium is looking at data more than a week old for $/year.
naravara 6 hours ago 0 replies      
There are several options. I guess Twitter could go with one or all of them.

As a backend service it would be nice if they focused on making your Twitter account into a sort of internet drivers license to identify you anywhere and everywhere online through a sort of trust chain. I never want to have to sign up for an account again unless it pertains to my finances. I so desperately wish I could manage all my various subscriptions and accounts for random services from a central place that is highly secure and easy to access. I should be able to sign-on seamlessly, unsubscribe effortlessly, and never have to remember a username or password. This would also allow a central place for me to set privacy preferences so we can dictate exactly what the downstream services should and shouldnt be able to see.If Twitter can just let me two-factor authorize with a token+pin and have this let me into just about any account online (aside from maybe my main email and financial accounts in the interests of not having all the eggs in one basket) thats a service people would indispensible. (So much so that maybe ICANN should just work on something like it as a public utility?)

On the more user-facing end, Twitters niche has always been people who are keen on promoting themselves and making announcements (new paper published, new product announced, press releases, etc.), so maybe they should just fill into what Facebook was before it became a NewsFeed. They could give you an About Me page and a status-bar. This basically is what Twitter is now, but they lack the focus to design it around that stuff as a central purpose for the service. They focus more on the Status Bar than the About Me, this would really just a difference in design language and emphasis. Make it into an RSS feed for people.

Or, as a third option. . . they could just make Twitter into an RSS reader. Maybe even add Wordpress/Medium style pages for long-form writing and feed that all through the same feed paradigm.

jacquesm 8 hours ago 0 replies      
Turn back the clock to when Twitter was mostly a protocol and less of a web application. Re-enable the API's that have been disabled, open up easier access to the firehose.

Essentially making Twitter 'too big to fail'.

Tell shareholders that they're in for the long haul and that they can write off any chances for quick bucks.

Most probably - unfortunately - cut deeply into the employee base because there is no way Twitter could sustain the company size they are at today based on the product that they have.

yanilkr 3 hours ago 0 replies      
Current advertising model of Twitter is not suited for the product. They tried to emulate google and facebook model of ad revenue by programmatically showing the user what might be useful to them and it did not work so well. People developed blind spots for such content. Twitter should really look into micro payments to reward users who increase engagement.

Some of our friends are good at recommending a movie or a restaurant and their opinions matter at a micro level similar to celebrity endorsements matter at a macro level. They would do more of it if they get paid like celebrities do but at a proportional rate. Take the burden out of complicated algorithms to match ad content to users and instead let users do it in between their conversations and pay for the content of their tweets. Make the normal user to be their spokesperson for the product/idea. Twitter is a very good medium for this.

This is native advertising at a whole new level. Financially rewarding users who are influential in their small circle might be difficult to implement. Take the ad money from businesses, local and global and share it with users who say nice and constructive things about their campaign to their followers. It could be as simple as rewarding a user for retweeting a well designed ad. Many users will get creative and make endorsements from their daily lives if it meant their followers liking it. Its like design crowd mixed with advertising. Brands would pay for this model because its driven by results.

Understanding user tweets and matching them to a business campaign and fairly allocating the reward to top/all contributors might be a much harder computer science problem but I think this model of advertising has a potential to work well for twitter. There is so much for user to tweet about. Local restaurants, to movies to their brand loyal purchases etc in exchange their tweets get financial reward based on how many people read them and engage with them.

ncantelmo 8 hours ago 0 replies      
There are two sides to this: usability and revenue.

On the usability side, there's lots of room for improvement in terms of fostering meaningful discussion, which in turn would lead to stronger social ties between users. Addressing that issue would probably have to start with an effort to improve discoverability of accounts that engage thoughtfully with other users. So people who reply to tweets that earn hearts might show up in suggestions more often, etc.

I'd also work to discourage endless ICYMI repostings of big multimedia tweets and go back to a chronological timeline. If there's too much noise in a chronological timeline, that means too much clickbait/link spam is being posted, and that's the real issue.

From a revenue perspective, there are a bunch of options worth looking at: a Patreon model to encourage people with great insight to tweet more; more accessible paid analytics, baked right into the app that could help non-business users improve the quality of what they send out; an in-app store for subscribing to third-party add-ons.

Basically, at some point it's worth realizing that plenty of mobile users will spend some money for an improved experience. The constant focus on ad-based revenue makes money, but ultimately incentivizes the company to do things that make the overall product experience worse.

CM30 8 hours ago 2 replies      
Well, for starters I would:

1. Focus on making the company profitable by cutting down on staff and resources. Seriously, Twitter doesn't need thousands of employees, a large HQ and all that other fancy stuff. I think a team of about 30 people could probably run it fine.

2. Get developers on board again. Open up API access, stop shutting down/blocking projects, etc. Make people feel like they could start a business on Twitter's platform, without the rug being pulled out down the line.

3. Get rid of the Trust and Safety Council. It's currently a bunch of left wingers that don't care much for freedom of speech, which groups like the ACLU suspiciously absent.

4. Improve moderation. Kick out terrorists and nutcases on the 'left', stop looking for every excuse to ban right wing users and generally treat everyone with respect all around.

5. Try and make the Android app more usable. Because at the moment, it's really awkward to use and gets rather slow at times.

6. Stop using verification and unverification as a punishment. Really, it's like Twitter is being as confusing as possible here.

7. Have the timeline set to how it used to be. Remove the 'show best tweets first' crap from any accounts unfortunate enough to still have it enabled.

8. Make things like URLs not count towards the character limit. I think Gab already does this, and it's very useful.

donpark 8 hours ago 2 replies      
I tweeted this few months ago:

1) Add golden heart2) Sell golden hearts to users.3) Reward some golden hearts daily to users, perhaps based on tiered ranking.4) Allow advertisers to gift golden hearts to users.5) 'Promote' tweets with golden hearts and display them in Moments.

In short, allow peer promotion. Red hearts are currently being wasted as weak social signals and nods. This change blurs the line between ads and peer-promotion.

rdl 6 hours ago 0 replies      
1) Focus on capturing value from "Twitter as realtime newsfeed" -- creating products for non-Twitter-posting-users to see what's going on at a longer timescale. This could be first party, or through partnerships with publishers.

2) All those Twitter developer/publisher services which Twitter recently sold were IMO the real value at Twitter, Inc. Unfortunately, Twitter has burned developers too many times to be trusted. I would have made them independent rather than selling, though.

3) Rather than randomly banning users, focus on better filtering tools, and tools to coalesce spam/multiple replies/etc. If you make a popular tweet, or are the target of an attack, there should be a single "click more" link, rather than hundreds of separate notifications.

pycal 8 hours ago 0 replies      
Systematically delete accounts which might contribute bad press and lower ad revenue.

Add a feature that allows users to censor their feeds / remove @replies from "trolls".

Decrease engineering staff, increase outbound sales people.

Establish syndication rights with NFL.

enknamel 4 hours ago 0 replies      
I think Twitter could beat Reddit as the front page of the internet. They could easily expand their trending information and turn it into automated events and stories. It looks like they do this a little bit. But if they did it a lot more it would suddenly become way more interesting. Group it by hashtags or categories and you can suddenly see stories that really interest you.

That's the draw of Reddit (and even Hacker News). You immediately see what's really popular on the internet right now.

DanBC 8 hours ago 0 replies      
Fix the abuse problem. Lilly Allen recently had some horrific trolling on her page about her stillborn child.


RyanZAG 4 hours ago 1 reply      
Add a down vote button so people can down vote the trolls. You'd see an enormous uptake in regular people using the service if every reply wasn't some random insult with a picture attachment of something disgusting.

Twitter is easily the most negative place on the internet, and that's including madness like the Something Awful forums or 4chan. A downvote option would hopefully push the constant arguments out of sight too.

xtweeeteer 5 hours ago 0 replies      
Lot of great ideas. The problem I see is execution (I'm an ex-employee). Primitive versions of most of the ideas suggested in these comments are tried and given up because they didnt really show huge difference in growth or other engagement numbers - This is partly because one of the below:1) primitive implementation/design is very bad compared to the original idea.2) There is huge reward in Twitter for starting new projects. But no one follows through to make sure project is well maintained/supported.3) Cross team coordination is not good
arielm 7 hours ago 0 replies      
In short - highlight what Twitter is really good at, which is delivering bits of fleeting information and working in commerce.

The long version - ads are great, but they cause a misalignment between the service users are happy with and the services necessary to monetize. In addition (not instead), id bring payments into the platform so goods can be discovered and purchased directly through the feed without the user having to leave the platform.

This would require quite a few changes throughout, but when they all come together I believe it'll bring the platform much closer to a Facebook-like status, where users spend more time on the platform as opposed to it being a "starting point" to finding interesting links.

alistproducer2 8 hours ago 0 replies      
Pivot to a NSFW platform. It already is but most people don't know that side of it. I'm pretty sure porn is the only reason tumblr's still breathing so it might work.
joshwcomeau 7 hours ago 0 replies      
Other than some small optimizations (When I reply to my own tweets, it should be visible without a page refresh), I would change nothing.

Granted, I am answering a different question: from the CEOs perspective, they _need_ to do something because they aren't growing fast enough.

But as a user, Twitter is more enjoyable when it's niche. I have a circle of developers that share their projects and thoughts on software dev, and it's delightful.

Someone else said that it's a great resource for the medical community, I know that the hiphop scene is big on twitter, there's whatever the hell Weird Twitter is...

Twitter makes more sense as a series of specialized clusters based around specific communities, not as a Facebook where it's everything for everyone.

zellyn 8 hours ago 0 replies      
I agree with what Adrian Colyer wrote at https://blog.acolyer.org/2017/02/14/reducing-controversy-by-...


Dear Twitter,

You have it in your power to truly differentiate your platform and make the world a better place by implementing controversial topic and filter bubble detection (per the paper we looked at yesterday), together with letting users see their polarity score (per todays paper) and making controversy reducing / filter-busting follower recommendations (also per todays paper). This would be something new and unique in the world of mass media consumption, and could help to make Twitter great again.

How about it?

Regards, Adrian.

grok2 1 hour ago 0 replies      
Charge celebrities (anyone who has above a certain volume of users) to use twitter.

Provide additional analytics as a paid service for marketing. Charge for add-on services (like delayed/periodic publishing etc, running polls, etc).

jbpetersen 1 hour ago 0 replies      
Merge it with Square to confuse the investors a while longer and/or take over the social payments space in a one fell swoop.
ctdonath 1 hour ago 0 replies      
Ability to limit distribution. I'm dropping use of Twitter because I don't want crossover between compartments in life; political rants shouldn't go to business contacts, dark humor shouldn't go to religious contacts, etc.
dpweb 8 hours ago 0 replies      
Many things come to mind.

I love Twitter, but it becomes less of a platform for personal expression and more of a machine operated tool for propagandists and spam garbage when you just widely allow botnets. For instance, do a little digging into some of the accts that constantly retweet Trump (Dems are no better). Maybe they tie back to alt-right blog-nets - not humans - which also managed to hijack the search engines to some extent. That ain't personal expression.

If they can't generate some new excitement, the BUMMER is, messaging is the future. I'll argue FB and everyone else will be known as messaging platforms - not a face book or social news feed.

moomin 7 hours ago 0 replies      
Don't know if it's even possible, but I'd start by having a good hard look at the engagement stats. Twitter runs on those stats same way the police departments in The Wire do. And, as a consequence, they've been loath to do anything that dips those stats.

Trolls, harassers and other bad actors all show up as _positives_ in Twitter's stats. Most of the UI features you hate probably cause upticks as well.

In practice, making a better Twitter might be a worse business plan than continuing to flame out, so this is unlikely to happen.

ijafri 8 hours ago 1 reply      
I have no clue why they stopped developing it any further, in old days you would eagerly wait for a new feature, every couple of month. That's also true back then it didn't even have image upload.

I'd expect it be something between Facebook and twitter itself. Nope never google+.

It needs a fresh look hmm! By fresh I meant the design as the aesthetics of web Facebook messenger a modern, miminial, fresh look. That Facebook lacks.

I'd want to it be bit less minimal but not as much bloated as Facebook hence I suggestrd earlier something between the Facebook and twitter itself.

It's stalled and boring, and at this point it looks like a driveless train that could hit the dead end pretty soon.

hellogoodbyeeee 8 hours ago 0 replies      
Are corporate accounts free or do they cost? I've always thought that they should charge every big corp that is using their platform as a marketing / customer service tool.

Does CNN pay Twitter every time they read someone's tweet on the air? I'm not talking about a "newsworthy" tweet (for example one from a politician's account), but CNN occasionally says, "Let's see what a random person on the internet thinks about this development." Then they prominently focus on a couple tweets. I think CNN (or who ever) should pay for that content.

dzink 5 hours ago 0 replies      
As a user I struggle to stay engaged with twitter - the moment I try to read, I am flooded with irrelevant content, yet the platform is the best place for niche interest information and fast niche information. The Signal-to-Noise ratio is too low. Here is how I would fix engagement and revenue:

1. Consider twitter a user's portfolio of interest channels and let us tab between our chosen channels immediately (multi-select box at the top where I can pick VCs, medicine, Design, Oscars, whatever - and it blends my feed for me)

2. Encourage floods of content and monetise curators filtering for quality - I can pay for subscription a feed of world news from WSJ, NYT, and other paid sources, and my subscription fee is distributed to them based on consumption. The best content wins and the quality editorials get rewarded for earning loyalty, not writing clickbait.

3. Enable paid advertising-free feeds.

4. Enable premium, niche feed advertising that is hyper relevant (If I have a spine medicine feed, an ad from Stryder would be very appropriate, but one from herbal remedies providers would be irrelevant). Building the curation mechanisms would draw top engineering talent in machine learning too.

5. Allow co-watching experiences during media events.

6. Allow me to filter out topics I want to avoid (and by doing that, you get more engagement and better ad targeting capabilities)

7. Open your developer ecosystem again and this time pay attention to what works and provide guarantees that you won't kill developer efforts. Those developers build bots for Facebook now and help their user engagement instead of yours.

The gist of it is: make your revenue model reward and improve quality. The moment you let advertisers lead you by the nose and dictate for obstructive anti-user product decisions, you will permanently lose your market to Facebook and others. I lead a hyper-niche collaboration network so happy to do a longer brainstorming session with Twitter people.

overcast 6 hours ago 0 replies      
1. Looking at their financials, they could become profitable by just removing half of their staff. I would start there before anything else.

2. Fix the mess of UI. I still don't understand how to engage in conversations to this day. Convoluted modal boxes, overlaying other screens, that then expand out to more replies, and so on and so forth. It's WAY too confusing.

redler 6 hours ago 0 replies      
Is Twitter involved at all in the annotation web standard [1]? There was a post and some discussion on HN a few days ago about it [2]. Seems like Twitter would be a natural fit to become a major player or popularizer of annotations and annotation infrastructure. Notwithstanding the decentralized nature of the standard, it would probably evolve to have a few major structural providers. If it takes off, one could imagine a future with billions of tweets and tweet threads anchored to source material of every kind -- adding optional value to the material, and driving traffic and value to and through Twitter.

[1] https://www.w3.org/blog/news/archives/6156[2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13729525

arcticbull 2 hours ago 0 replies      
1. Lay off half the employees.

2. Improve their ad product.

That's it really. It doesn't do anything now that it didn't in 2014, and the workforce is significantly larger. It'd be a decent, profitable company.

Or, make it a non-profit. It's in the public interest.

gre 8 hours ago 0 replies      
Twitter should buy the Sutro Baths, renovate them, and charge admission.
tschellenbach 8 hours ago 1 reply      
Twitter in it's current form mainly appeals to power users. For every day users it's simply too much work to get value from Twitter. To fix that they will have to make some choices that will upset existing users though:

1. Move the chronological feed to the background, the feed should be sorted by relevancy not time. (If you're a power user you can click to the raw chronological feed.)

2. Right now you can only follow users and not interests. This makes it extremely hard for new users to get a sensible feed of content. If a mainstream user signs up for Twitter they are only going to spend a minute or so to set things up. Twitter needs to immediately add value for those users.

3. Use a machine learning approach to learn what a user is interested in based on email clicks. (Quora does a great job at that.)

4. Redesign all apps and simply. A good example is their settings screen. Another is the crazy behaviour that you have to put a . in front of your tweet. Get rid of all those power user features and settings and simplify.

5. Remove abusive bots and clearly mark bots as bots. Twitter is spending millions to facilitate people engaging in follow spam and other forms of spam.

6. Build up a dedicated team to make sure Twitter works for high profile users. (IE, do notifications and messages work if i have >10m followers). They need a team on top of that to keep those users happy.

7. Some general tips: https://getstream.io/blog/13-tips-for-a-highly-engaging-news...

erickhill 8 hours ago 0 replies      
1) Offer a premium Ad Free model2) Create a Reddit Gold type of economy to open up "premium features" ... e.g. Unfollow Tools and/or deeper analytics - this would tie into the Ad Free model3) Allow for the creation of Groups. 4) Make Video more of a top-tier content experience, not some side-bar hand-wavy experiment (at the same level as Moments). The next Twitch could be Twitter-based. The community is already there. (note: expensive, but potentially very lucrative CPMs)
riemannzeta 8 hours ago 0 replies      
Twitter is the web interface for mobile messaging. The network effects have carried it so far. "Turning around" is going to mean saying no to all of the shiny new things both on mobile and on the web that have little to do with its core value. That means no live video, no original content, nothing but messaging on the web. Focus, focus, focus.

With that focus, I believe Twitter can return to growth in its user base. There is more that could be done to make the experience more engaging, for example, without interfering with the core experience. By mixing some suggested tweets into my feed using machine learning, Twitter could increase engagement. The new user experience would flow better with good use of machine learning.

In terms of monetization, it's about the data. Twitter APIs should be recognized as best-in-class, and access should be sold on a subscription basis on a graduated scale based on frequency of access.

There is a natural scale to core Twitter, and it might not be much bigger than it is right now. Sometimes we have to be content with what we've got -- which in Twitter's case is nothing to sneeze at. They shouldn't be going all "New Coke" getting into video and media in my opinion.

niftich 7 hours ago 0 replies      
1. Take it private

2. Focus app and website around two concepts: 'Now' and 'Here' -- temporally local, and spatially local.

'Now' would surface what's happening in the world now: major entertainment events, major political events, intermingling global, culturally-similar, and local. Show a stylized zoomable map to show what's happening around the world, so one can narrow or widen the locality of the world's pulse.

'Here' would invert this, showing everything that happened hyperlocal, surfacing recent popular and random tweets from where you are now.

Bonus for some visual eye candy that shows, perhaps as a Venn diagram, when 'Here' and 'Now' get closer and closer together to where if you're at a sports event, they're one and the same.

3. Keep everything chronological. For a network like this, 'Fear of Missing Out' is a feature, not a bug -- the anxiety should be palpable. For 'Now', sell ad slots for exact rotating times, like TV. This will drive demand for high-quality, high-cost brand advertising, instead of low-value mundane stuff. For 'Here', sell the ad slot to local businesses.

4. Open the API but charge a fee for access.

5. Use ML, identity, hashtags, and context to classify tweets into a limited number of categories/tags: breaking news, humor, insight, commentary, chatter, feedback. Expose these as a user-controllable filter on top of any existing view.

6. Disable most notifications. Make users want to return to the app without being nagged.

7. Only allow replies and DMs from people you follow and verified accounts.

nevi-me 5 hours ago 1 reply      
Make advertising more accessible/cheaper. I have a Facebook page where I can spend ZAR210 a day and get value. Twitter costs way more for less perceived value. Opening up advertising to more small projects like ours brings in more revenue I think.
bbulkow 5 hours ago 0 replies      
Twitter does need to continue engineering. It needs to do exactly one thing: re-order the timeline so that coming to Twitter becomes fun and engaging again. Right now, when I open Twitter ( mobile or desktop ), I have a huge flurry of random things I don't really want to read, or don't want to read now.

Re-ordering the timeline promises the solution - but it doesn't work yet.

I would think you need "auto-group", which FB, Google, and others have tried and failed at.

But in any case - twitter is the place I feel like I have to go, but don't want to go, and I think I'm not the only one.

phn 6 hours ago 0 replies      
Embrace the use of lists and its workflow (think tweetdeck). Side by side lists. I insist on side by side because you don't want one particular list stopping content from other lists to catch your eye.

Implement smart/personalized lists by interest and suggest them to users, suggest new people to add to existing lists and/or tweets that may be relevant to that list. A bit like spotify playlists and smart radios, but oriented to tweets.

Basically, make it easier for people to find tweets and users they want to follow, segmented by interest.

Display relevant non-intrusive ads based on the interests on that list. They should take the hint from reddit regarding what "non-intrusive" means. Adding something like Reddit Gold wouldn't be a bad idea either.

Apart from that, a nice interface to follow live events and their tweets would be awesome.

ilamont 6 hours ago 0 replies      
1. Give people control over things that matter to them, whether it be length of tweets, ability to enable/disable certain features, or see Twitter in preferred modes (pure reverse chron, ad-free, image-free, no politics, only sports, etc.).

2. Charge fees for this stuff

3. Make it easy to buy anything via Twitter

4. Get rid of the bots and AI-obvious trolling/threats/TOS violations. I find it astounding that despite years of promises to do something the situation seems to be getting worse.

5. Get a new fully-focused leader who can execute on these and other issues without distraction of a second company, and can also bring down headcount. This probably requires a reorg and a new board.

riffic 1 hour ago 0 replies      
I'd shut it down and give the money back to the shareholders.
tyre 6 hours ago 0 replies      
A few ideas:

# Mass Monetization

1) Integrate payments and one-click purchasing, take a cut.

2) Host specific pages for live-stream events (not within tweets) like sports games. Target the remaining pieces of cable TV: Live sports, ESPN, Awards Shows, Olympics, Talk shows (e.g. Daily show, Colbert Report, etc.)

# Large Account Monetization

1) Charge for additional features, e.g. private/protected accounts, verification, having more than XXX followers.

2) Build tools specifically for managing a) large accounts and b) brands/customer service. Charge them for it!

# Data Monetization

1) Build API access for alternative clients that is free for a certain number of users (~10k) then charges on a per-install basis.

2) Partner with marketing platforms (e.g. Salesforce) to build marketing funnels from Twitter into CRM or marketing platform.

portman 7 hours ago 1 reply      
Charge Donald Trump, Kim Kardashian, and anyone else who has 1MM+ followers. Charge them per tweet. They are the true economic beneficiaries of Twitter.

(Like any software company, offer lower pricing to charities.)

Use that cash to get rid of ads (they are not working) and invest in more tools for publishers (who are now paying).

d--b 8 hours ago 0 replies      
Make people pay to tweet. something like the cost of a text message. That will cut the garbage down a lot. It will reduce the costs by easing the infrastructure. Increase quality of information by reducing the number of bots/trolls/twitstorms and so on. Plus it will bring in some money in.
codingdave 8 hours ago 0 replies      
I'm not sure anyone outside of twitter has enough information to really answer this. After all, they DO have revenue. So without knowing the intricate details of their expenses, it is difficult to know whether the problem lies in business strategy or just financial operations. Because the first step would be to be sure they really are running their operations in a financially effective manner. It is possible that a re-tooling of their internal operations would result in profitability.

If that turns out to not be the case, then the strategy would depend on how far from profitability they are -- are we talking about minor tweaks to the business model? Or a major overhaul of entire company?

In short, how would I turn it around? I'd step in and do a large analytic effort on the status quo, and then react to the result.

Yhippa 2 hours ago 0 replies      
Charge users a cent per tweet or some other amount.

I hate doing this but maybe they need to consider a "freemium" model where you get basic tweets at a certain rate limit for free but to do things like post long videos or images directly in the tweet you can pay to do that.

Consider charging for different types of searches a user can do.

Offer researchers and people using Tweets as a dataset for sentiment or other analysis a fee for real-time and direct access to data.

Uhhrrr 5 hours ago 0 replies      
Pseudo-federate it into separate sites with differing levels of moderation: minors, special snowflakes, normal people, and anything-goes free speech fans.

Also, stop messing with my timeline.

pratyushag2 5 hours ago 0 replies      
Twitter should own the utility of being a messaging forum for the public. This means a communication layer that can be easily used by many different services for different purposes. From there on, it should open up this message level integration as easily embrddable feature for websites and to app developers. Monetization potential will increase with engagement and engagement to a forum using twitter should be made as easy as text messages.

Cut costs and cut it by a lot!

stevefeinstein 5 hours ago 0 replies      
I would work with the US post office, and any other countries postal service to turn the service into a public utility run by the people for the people under the same idea that the post office delivered physical messages, it would be in the public interest to deliver electronic messages as well. Stop trying to be profitable, not all useful things need to make money. Some things are worth funding because they are of public benefit.
shp0ngle 8 hours ago 1 reply      
Put more effort to engineering.

Facebook isn't great because of how it looks, but because they have React, hiphop (or what's the name now), things like that; and that allows them to scale and build and iterate more quickly.

Twitter had Bootstrap and that was great investment IMO... now the Bootstrap guys all left. Why?

nitinics 7 hours ago 1 reply      
1. Customer Service - Provide enterprise solutions for customer service and charge $$$ per transaction. The live nature of this would prove a lot of value for feedback mechanisms for enterprise when they go through their change management.

2. Live Interaction with Events, Games, Television, Radio etc. e.g. Polls, QnA, Sentiment etc.

3. Open Access to Developers to build Apps on real-time content.

4. Enable fact-check score methodologies on every tweets. Don't completely wipe out the trolls. As weird as it may sound - trolls make twitter interesting.

5. The Ultimate messaging platform that replaces SMS/Texts with an identity that is not numbers.

__jal 4 hours ago 0 replies      
1. Rebuild Twitter as an open, federated, decentralize service. 2. Write RFCs.3. Shut down the massively dysfunctional company that should have been a protocol from the beginning so everyone involved can go get jobs doing something useful.
ZeroCool2u 48 minutes ago 0 replies      
Nice try Twitter execs.
EdSharkey 5 hours ago 0 replies      
Open up a cloud services arm that uses the Twitter infrastructure to host long-running business processes with broadcast-ability. Offer twitter feed integrations, human workflow steps, workbaskets/inboxes, and external partner API calls.

Low latency seems to be Twitter's thing, cash in on that and make some speedy low latency workflow thing.

_harry 8 hours ago 0 replies      
- fix abuse & troll problem

- clarify community guidelines

- threaded replies

- upvotes

- groups public/private

- add channels

- follow anything, focus on live

- then I'd buy Reddit & Imgur.

nodesocket 5 hours ago 0 replies      
If I had the nuclear option I'd create a new account type, Twitter Business. Twitter Business has special features directly linked with their advertising core. A twitter Business handle costs $9.99 a month and includes "premium" business features such as engagement analytics, brand tracking, etc.
LordHumungous 6 hours ago 1 reply      
Allow users to pay to "boost" tweets and expand their exposure. I.e. you can pay $5 in boost credits to increase the reach of the tweet promoting your website or whatever. (Or maybe much more if you are a corporate account- not sure how the pricing model should work). The boosts should be invisible to other users.

Basically, monetize the one thing that every wants to do on twitter, which is go viral.

aembleton 8 hours ago 0 replies      
- Remove advertising

- Charge for longer tweets in the following way

 - 200 chars -> $10/year - 500 chars -> $10/month or $100/year - 1000 chars -> $100/month or $1000/year

ChicagoDave 5 hours ago 0 replies      
I'd make accounts 3-tier:

1. anonymous, free, limited use (300 tweets per month)2. consumer, verified identity, paid, $10/month (1500 tweets per month)3. commercial, verified identities, paid, $25/month per user (3000 tweets/month)4. commercial, verified identities, paid, $100/month per user (unlimited tweets)

dzonga 7 hours ago 1 reply      
Btw I made an app[0] last year as my first iOS app which centers conversations around Live events using hashtags.

Based on comments on this thread, with some UX improvements the app could meet a lot your requirements. Will gladly accept feedback, and willing to iterate.

[0]: https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/event-is/id1141185734?mt=8

petergatsby 8 hours ago 0 replies      
Stop rewarding the most hyperbolic, sensational content by propagating it the furthest, fastest. Turn tweets into "ice-berg tips"; user taps on tweet to see more, nuanced info.
maxdemarzi 6 hours ago 0 replies      
Take Twitter and add a sprinkle of Groupon. Let brands sell direct via a Tweet. I click buy, boom I paid for it. For what exactly? Anything you can buy on Amazon, discount movie tickets, buy one get one free burger at mcdonalds, pre-order video games, etc. SELL STUFF. Add limits, like only 500 of x, or tweet will self destruct in x seconds. Imagine Black Friday/Cyber Monday on Twitter...
CephalopodMD 7 hours ago 1 reply      
A sane, open, paid API:

I would pay serious money to use their historical data. It's a goldmine for machine learning research, finance, market research, news, politics, etc. I'm sure anybody could find a legitimate use for that much data from a social network.

Instead, I have to hack together a way to constantly collect tweets from within the past 2 weeks or use 3rd parties to access their data in any sane way.

Sell me your data! I want to buy your data!

whalabi 4 hours ago 0 replies      
Cut costs and lose the millions of bots! It's disheartening to be followed and messaged by bots all the time. You feel like you're in a echo chamber for crazy people.
MrQuincle 1 hour ago 0 replies      

Get the info you want from the sources you like at the moment you desire.

jasonkostempski 7 hours ago 0 replies      
I think Twitter could only be improved by removing all the garbage they've added since it's inception. It was perfect on day 1 except for scaling issues. If they didn't get greedy and just took the money for access to the real-time stream of data and maybe some advanced analytics, a few people could be making a ton of money instead of a ton of people making no money.
Havoc 2 hours ago 0 replies      
I wouldn't.

This is a fireball. It's shining bright no doubt, but it's a fireball all right.

m52go 4 hours ago 0 replies      
Develop TweetDeck for all platforms & make it a paid product.
usrusr 6 hours ago 0 replies      
Cut back all monetization projects that don't produce a ROI already, hire out the technical talent as a consultancy specializing on Twitter-scale scalability problems and keep the pipes running as the mother of all reference projects. It would be like hiring Noah to design your yacht.
Mikeb85 8 hours ago 1 reply      
Get rid of censorship. They had a good idea with live streaming video and whatnot, but they're beat to everything by Instagram and Snapchat.

As it stands now, I deleted Twitter simply because it's nothing but corporate accounts, overly aggressive SJWs posturing over every damn thing, and the only content I actually cared about was reposted from Instagram (apart from a few people I know who live streamed, but have since switched platforms). So now I only use Instagram.

daveid 8 hours ago 0 replies      
Twitter as a company needs to think about how to be profitable. Twitter as a way for people to talk to each other and broadcast important events needs to be neither commercial nor centralized [1]

[1]: https://hackernoon.com/the-power-to-build-communities-a-resp...

tyingq 6 hours ago 1 reply      
Maybe too late for these specific examples, but figure out how to use their existing tech to take over new markets as they pop up. They currently have all their eggs in one, low margin product.

They should have been able to release, for example, competitive offerings against Disqus, Signal, and Slack.

metaphorm 8 hours ago 1 reply      
new economic model: users pay on the basis of how many followers they have. the first 1000 followers are free. pricing begins for accounts with over 1000 followers. the more followers you have the more you pay.

this places the payment model in alignment with who the actual beneficiaries of twitter are. it's a mass broadcast advertising/propaganda platform. let the propagandists pay for it.

npezolano 5 hours ago 0 replies      
Sell to Bloomberg:

1) Twitter is already used for financial news and real time financial trading of events.

2) Bloomberg has a huge financial data and news business.

3)Bloomberg would then be the sole provider of twitter data and the revenue from that alone could keep the product afloat.

austinjp 3 hours ago 0 replies      
Charge 1 per tweet.

The details are friable, eg maybe don't charge for private DMs, maybe only charge per first comment per user per thread.

But charge for use.

jondubois 8 hours ago 0 replies      
I would cut Selling/General/Admin expenses. It's costing them $1.2 billion per year which is about half of their total revenue and this cost has kept growing over the years.

I would cut back on research (or at least bring it in-house) - $713 million is too much. If they paid each of their researchers 200K per year, they could hire 3500 of them which is insane.

rrggrr 7 hours ago 0 replies      
1. Let users charge for more rapid access to tweets and share revenue (eg. instant tweet access versus delayed access).

2. Let users pay to DM certain accounts.

3. Mesh-networked solution.

4. Launch 'labs' version as sandbox for developers and users to experiment with (eg. encrypted tweeting, blockchain embedded messaging, proxied messages, etc.)

5. Twitter comms OS embedded on hardware.

robbyking 7 hours ago 0 replies      
Change the culture in-house. I've only known a couple people who've worked at Twitter, but both hated it and said they felt constant pressure to participate in extracurricular activities like after hours movies and games.

You're never going to be innovative if your employees dread coming to work.

michaelalexis 3 hours ago 0 replies      
If there was a "boost" button for every tweet like on FB page posts, then we would use it all the time.
yrryeruy 8 hours ago 0 replies      
make it so that when you click on an image in a tweet, it gets bigger not smaller
dejawu 6 hours ago 1 reply      
Ooh, I like this question.

1. Trim the fat. Reduce the number of employees dramatically. Obviously not a graceful change but I feel there should not be that as many people working there as there are now.

2. Focus on engagement, not growth. Twitter may not be growing in the way that the market wants, but the users that it does have are incredibly devoted to the platform. If I were to leave Twitter there's nowhere else I could go. If I leave Tinder or Snapchat there are many other platforms that can fill almost the same niche. Twitter needs to capitalize on that.

3. Make brands pay to have a page. In other words, if you're not an individual, you must pay to create an account. Savvy companies have realized that being on Twitter is a key part of a solid social media campaign. To not be on Twitter is to miss out on a huge opportunity to reach a very devoted audience, and you can't reach that audience anywhere else (#2). Some brands are already doing this well (e.g. Wendy's.) If the choice comes to paying for the opportunity to market on Twitter, and not market at all, companies will gladly pay. On the plus side, this could let Twitter reduce the interstitial ads on the timeline.

Everyone hates ads, but the way that brands have engaged with individuals on Twitter really humanizes them and makes people form more real relationships with them. It also forces brands to be more accountable and aware.

4. Bring back Vine. A huge part of Twitter's staying power is the unique culture it has created (#2). Staying power is what gives Twitter its greatest value to advertisers (#3).

5. Ramp up engagement on Periscope. Periscope being a part of Twitter makes a lot of sense because Twitter is all about stuff happening live. It's a great platform but I think it also needs a desktop client (with OBS support, the way Twitch does) to allow the caliber of content creation to go up.

6. Re-open APIs. Twitter has sown a bad seed with the dev community by making its API very restricted. Tweets make up a very interesting dataset on which other people could build very unique things on top of. Twitter should encourage this, not stifle it. "Look what cool things we can do with Twitter" will only serve to strengthen the image of Twitter as a unique, irreplaceable platform.


These are the main issues I see as an everyday user of Twitter. Things like live sports/TV are good ways to grow but these are all secondary to Twitter strengthening its core platform for longevity and meaningful sustainability.

tekromancr 5 hours ago 0 replies      
Paid API Access. Provide a way for businesses to build tools on top of Twitter, while also removing the fears that Twitter will kill your business if they decide to build a competing feature.
yoodenvranx 7 hours ago 0 replies      
I would sell hats for the user avatar. It worked in TF2 and it also works in CSGO, Pokemon and LOL. The typical Twitter and Instagram user is so full of vanity that tons of people would invest tons of money into getting that one very rare hat on their profile pic.
GiorgioG 6 hours ago 0 replies      
1. Fire all the CXO level people. All of them.

2. Fire all the rent-seekers.

3. The 5 people that are left, keep the lights on.

4. Profit!

dkrich 7 hours ago 0 replies      
I don't think it can be turned around in the sense that it can be made into a profitable business.

I think of Twitter the same way I think of highways. It fulfills a huge market demand that the market isn't willing to pay for itself, so has to be subsidized in other ways.

ajamesm 7 hours ago 0 replies      
Listen to what users are overwhelmingly saying: actually fix harassment/spam/bots. Fix the opaque, unaccountable useless support processes.

Twitter is fine for what it is, and all it needs to do is stay consistent, not suck, not burn money, not force opportunities

unstatusthequo 8 hours ago 2 replies      
Charge $0.01 per tweet and this also suggest people be more succinct and thoughtful in their posts to make the service a little better
accountface 8 hours ago 0 replies      
Open up the API again and let third parties integrate live-streaming features. If you have thousands of people already watching and livetweeting a new Netflix release, facilitate that and make it easier. Imagine if everyone could watch the Superbowl while live-tweeting it in the same interface... you'd likely broaden user adoption
kevwil 8 hours ago 0 replies      
1) Go private. Twitter is a simple product that will be increasingly difficult to monetize to appease the stockholders. Being public will either mutate it into a video-ad nightmare or end up being shut down or sold.

2) Keep the timeline simple.

3) Better custom timelines, searches, and notifications.

4) Stop trying to copy Facebook, Whatsapp, Snapchat, etc. and just be the best Twitter possible.

Entangled 6 hours ago 0 replies      
Put one ad at the top. Serve one billion a day.

You can't just turn a business around from your core competency, which in the case of Twitter is short bursts of emotions. You can't turn it into a Medium or Facebook, you'll fail miserably.

nav 4 hours ago 0 replies      
have the chan zuckerberg initiative buy it and turn it into a non-profit utility for instant short form information
orasis 4 hours ago 0 replies      
Fix the bot problem. Beyond headline testing, I'll never advertise on Twitter again due to bot clicks.
amorphid 8 hours ago 0 replies      
Open up the platform to third parties again, and creating a binding agreement to keep it open.
hkmurakami 5 hours ago 0 replies      
I'd first take it private with PE money (a la Dell), cut workforce/costs, then go from there. Fresh start without Wall Street pressure.
xxdesmus 1 hour ago 0 replies      
I would add an edit button.
ronreiter 6 hours ago 0 replies      
Make Twitter both more social and more publisher oriented.

1) Twitter's ability to have a good experience around discussions around a group of friends like Facebook is

2) Twitter can be a huge publishing platform

andrewfromx 8 hours ago 0 replies      
relaunch it. have a countdown to the end of Twitter 2007-2017 and let everyone know it's starting all over again. Rush to get your username. The new twitter will be just like it was in 2008 but stable and working but get back to what made it great in the first place.
austincheney 7 hours ago 1 reply      
Allow private tweet capabilities and charge for it. This is really all you can do. Twitter is largely a broadcast system and echo chamber, which perfectly explains the type of people who gravitate to it most directly.
budu3 8 hours ago 0 replies      
Developers, developers, developers. I would open up the apps store and the API -- embrace developers once again. The media companies trajectory that they're currently on seems like that which Yahoo was on, and it did help Yahoo much.
heygrady 8 hours ago 0 replies      
Release a new text-based product that sits in the area between Medium, Facebook, Twitter and Instagram. Shift focus away from likes and followers and towards the content. Make a bold announcement about how it will combat fake news.
leroy_masochist 8 hours ago 0 replies      
Get rid of Quote Tweet. Its primary current use case is to facilitate pointless "gotcha" games. I'd say it contributes more to the current poisonous atmosphere more than any other feature.
arnonejoe 1 hour ago 0 replies      
free for consumer accounts. paid model for business accounts.
MichaelMoser123 8 hours ago 2 replies      
I would add a feature that is similar to goole+ circles: allow the user to view the tweets of a subset of sources. I think it makes sense for twitter: one circle for each interest/ point of view.
fjordan 7 hours ago 0 replies      
Pitch it to Amazon as a proper monitor for their AWS Cloud.
piedpiper_ 2 hours ago 0 replies      
I wouldn't, I'd build something better (disclaimer, working on it).
wheaties 6 hours ago 1 reply      
Go the Yammer route: they already have messaging down. Might as well make "rooms" that you can tweet "in."
gtsteve 8 hours ago 0 replies      
Nice try, Jack Dorsey.
uladzislau 8 hours ago 0 replies      
The twist - one of Twitter executives asking this on HN...
imlina 7 hours ago 0 replies      
- Slot in Ads that are 140 characters or less.- Merge Medium and Twitter. Everyone can be a news reporter/editor
kevwil 8 hours ago 0 replies      
- Go private. Twitter is a simple product and will be increasingly difficult to monetize enough to satisfy shareholders' desire for ever-increasing profits.

- Keep it simple. Stop trying to be Facebook and Snapchat and Youtube all at once.

- Better AI / search to enable/improve things like custom timelines and notifications.

- Optional paid accounts with appropriate benefits. Keep the cost low and don't penalize unpaid accounts.

Bamberg 8 hours ago 0 replies      
Limit restrictions on free speech as much as possible.
lngnmn 8 hours ago 0 replies      
Sell it to Trump.
skylan_q 8 hours ago 0 replies      
They started a great slaughter of #FrogTwitter twitterers.


This is the price they now pay.

Also, Twitter isn't so much a business as it's a hybrid speech platform/media outlet and moneyed interests shape it as they please to promote the agenda they want.

isanganak 7 hours ago 1 reply      
Sell it to enterprises as a collaboration tool, charge based on number of users, kinda like #slack.
petegrif 4 hours ago 0 replies      
Introduce channels to reduce noise and focus content.
elorant 4 hours ago 0 replies      
Commit seppuku.

Seriously, Twitter can't be saved. They fucked up when they alienated every developer out there by making their API too damn strict. There's no way back from this.

benaadams 6 hours ago 0 replies      
Show what advertising offers/reach etc prior to asking for payment details.
vezycash 7 hours ago 0 replies      
Twitter's money issues can be solved by adsensing popluar / celebrity accounts.
RodericDay 1 hour ago 0 replies      
Twitter should offer a secure chat channel like Signal, and the ability to publish some of the best phrases that come up as Tweets.

Too often I have to take screenshots of a Signal convo, format it for Twitter, etc.

Mendenhall 6 hours ago 0 replies      
Be politically neutral.
monochromatic 8 hours ago 1 reply      
I'd stop using it to suppress political speech that I disagree with.


gdulli 7 hours ago 0 replies      
Get rid of the algorithmic timeline, while-you-were-away, etc.
misterbowfinger 8 hours ago 0 replies      
I'm surprised Twitter didn't become the newer, better Reddit.
joeclark77 8 hours ago 0 replies      
I agree they need to go back to the chronological ordering of tweets. It would also be nice to have a couple levels of tweeting, like "conversational message" versus "I really mean it this time", so followers could filter by importance. I've unfollowed several great people because they just kept tweeting nonsense comments throughout the day in between a couple of really interesting posts.
jecjec 5 hours ago 0 replies      
stop banning the best accounts.
killersmalls 3 hours ago 0 replies      
Nice try, Twitter
powera 2 hours ago 0 replies      
Here's my take from a few months ago: https://medium.com/@8a42aa2c33c2/870d096a64e5

Very roughly:

1) Stop abuse.2) Find something new for engineers to work on.3) Sell to a media company.4) Don't waste time on BS like streaming NFL games.

daliwali 8 hours ago 1 reply      
They can continue doing what they're doing already:

- Suspending accounts for no reason at all.

- Shadow banning users by hiding their replies (they refer to certain users as "low quality").

- Aggressive censorship of alternative opinions.

thadjo 3 hours ago 0 replies      
acquire nuzzel
z3t4 6 hours ago 0 replies      
they have the chicken. just lay some eggs. i would probably make a micro payment system.
danm07 6 hours ago 0 replies      
Get rid of all the fake users.
anizan 7 hours ago 0 replies      
Remove duplicate tweets from search.
charlesbarbier 5 hours ago 0 replies      
Go upper market.
jkaljundi 7 hours ago 0 replies      
ChrisPodlaski 7 hours ago 0 replies      
create a calendar app with native video... you're welcome
flewthecoop47 4 hours ago 0 replies      
blazespin 5 hours ago 0 replies      
Duplicate facebook (private feeds) and sell adds like facebook. Facebook is just going to keep growing their pages and take over twitter anyways, so they don't have a choice.
pklausler 8 hours ago 0 replies      
smacktoward 6 hours ago 0 replies      
Take a page from mobile gaming and let people buy extra characters.

The act of whittling down a tweet to fit inside the (increasingly ridiculous) 140-character limit is the exact kind of tedious, repetitive thing a game designer would instantly recognize as a "grind":


And free-to-play mobile games have demonstrated that lots of people, when presented with a grind, are very willing to pay real money to skip past it. So: give Twitter users the option to buy extra characters, usable whenever they're needed, at some price point low enough to be attractive as an impulse buy. A penny per character, say, or 40 characters for a quarter, or 120 for 99 cents. The marginal cost to Twitter of shipping 141 characters over the wire instead of 140 is essentially nothing, so whatever you charge would be almost 100% pure profit.

A user with a bag of such extra characters in hand would now have the ability, if they wanted to, to skip editing down every tweet and just post on the fly. Which could be a real time-saver, if you're one of the media-type power users who spend all day on Twitter! And how much it costs you depends entirely on how often you want the luxury of not having to edit yourself. If you only need it occasionally, it's cheap; if you're compulsively logorrheic, well... consider it a tax on the burden you're placing on your followers' attention.

But wouldn't it ruin Twitter, you ask, if people weren't forced to be terse? I don't see how. When people use the extra space wisely, it makes their life easier, costs you nothing and generates revenue that can subsidize freeloaders like you. When people abuse the extra space, you can always unfollow them -- and when the abusers notice their follower counts crashing, they'll be encouraged to rein themselves in. Nobody logs on to Twitter in the morning with the objective of losing followers. The system would correct itself.

So: Twitter makes money, power users enjoy using it more, regular users get their freight paid for by the whales, everyone has access to longer-form expression with a mechanism already in place to still encourage brevity. It's a win all around.

anotheryou 7 hours ago 0 replies      
go away from the chronological view
Ologn 6 hours ago 0 replies      
Allow me to publicly follow someone while privately ignoring them.

Allow me to easily and permanently get rid of "In case you missed it" thing and read my feed on a strictly timeline basis.

I get a lot of junk in my feed that I don't want to see, and thus I don't go to it much.

Facebook is not as bad, but they've gotten worse. Two of my friends "like" some newspaper and then I start seeing the latest stories from that newspaper in my feed all the time.

I want to go to these feeds once a day and read what those who publish once a day or less who are my friends (Facebook) or friends/colleagues (Twitter) say, in timeline order. Any deviation from that lessens my desire to read it. Some of my friends publish to Facebook several times a day and I usually don't even want to read that, never mind the other junk that both put in my feed.

rootedbox 5 hours ago 0 replies      
asking for a friend
perseusprime11 8 hours ago 0 replies      
Sell Twitter to Microsoft
jackmott 4 hours ago 0 replies      
ban nazis.
branchless 7 hours ago 0 replies      
I'd change the way we issue money. I'd issue it without interest allowing companies to be free from the tiresome burden of continuous growth.
redthrowaway 7 hours ago 0 replies      
1. Lay off most of the workforce. There is absolutely no justification for them to have as many employees as they do.

2. Start charging people based on how many followers they have. Twitter isn't worth much for the average consumer, but it's hugely valuable for people with massive reach. Charge them for it.

People are giving lots of product suggestions, but the product itself isn't the biggest issue. Twitter spends too much and makes too little. Patch the holes in the boat before you try to row faster.

xatan_dank 8 hours ago 0 replies      
I wouldn't become the CEO of Twitter. If I were, I would resign. I think the business model of these "free services but you pay with your data and advertisements" is despicable. I would much rather spend my time creating and popularizing FOSS protocols for communication if I am to work in this area.

I think Twitter has always been a completely ridiculous service and it's a poster child for this misguided iteration of Internet companies. If we just get enough users, we HAVE to make a profit! Turns out that isn't the case. The only thing I've seen Twitter accomplish is poisoning our collective consciousness with false information and a bad model of reality provided by an unsustainable system.

dumbfounder 7 hours ago 0 replies      
Bring back the app ecosystem and this time make a blood oath to protect the apps instead of destroying them all. If apps want to monetize they need to use Twitter's methods of monetization and share the data they generate back to Twitter. Make the rules mutually beneficial, sign that blood oath (an actual public, binding contract), and people will come back and build cool things again.
WordPress on .NET peachpie.io
357 points by pchp  12 hours ago   140 comments top 17
egeozcan 12 hours ago 4 replies      
This seems to be built on an open-souce PHP->CLR compiler called Peachpie[1]. Interesting project. I don't have any PHP codebase that I still maintain but looking forward to trying it with some scripts I've written back in the days. I wonder if it would be faster than PHP 7 - which is already very fast (ok, just found these: http://www.peachpie.io/benchmarks ).

[1]: http://www.peachpie.io/

[edit] If the author is looking, a few nitpicks from the website:

- A blank page is shown if browser doesn't load 3rd party scripts by default

- After enabling them, the scroll wheel doesn't work

- Typo: "free completely to use" -> "completely free to use"

- "Run PHP apps on the most secure platform available, Microsoft .NET" -> I also admire the platform but most secure? Comes off a bit too strong.

algorithmsRcool 11 hours ago 2 replies      
I've been following the peachpie project for a while. The effort they put in is very impressive.

They choose to heavily modify the C#/VB compiler (Roslyn) to handle php syntax. Microsoft should be investing time into helping them succeed, it would be great to see the Roslyn compiler platform become more broadly used.

alistproducer2 11 hours ago 4 replies      
I work at a large company and we are starting to branch out into other languages. the problem is most of our infrastructure in .NET. Something like this would be really cool as it would allow us to utilize PHP while not asking too much of infrastructure team. I might put in an OSS approval request for this.
dyml 11 hours ago 2 replies      
This is amazing and from the comments I've heard that Microsoft is around supporting the development of this? Is there any MS material mentioning this effort? I'm really impressed by your work
duke360 12 hours ago 2 replies      
<3 this! any idea on when it will be production-ready?
pawadu 11 hours ago 3 replies      
I don't care about performance, show me if security has improved!

(which in the case of Wordpress can't be that hard)

jesalg 8 hours ago 0 replies      
Several years ago I used to run a WordPress blog on IIS 7 using FastCGI. The performance wasn't great but acceptable for a small blog. Wonder how this compares.
CiPHPerCoder 8 hours ago 1 reply      
Any chance we can get PHP's HashDoS vulnerability removed if we switch to PeachPie?

PHP 7.2 will make libsodium a core extension, so if you use that, you can make use of SipHash-2-4.

andy_ppp 12 hours ago 1 reply      
This is very clever, what is the performance like compared to PHP?
nbevans 12 hours ago 3 replies      
Running PHP and indeed WordPress on the .NET CLR seems like a great way to eliminate a whole tranche of bugs/vulnerabilities in one swoop. Respect.
oblio 12 hours ago 3 replies      
Well, considering the fact that PHP post v4 is trying to become Java, it made sense that at some point it would be able to run on the JVM or its step-cousin CLR.

By the way, does anyone know of a similar project where the JVM is targeted instead?

skrowl 11 hours ago 3 replies      
Cool idea. How is the performance vs PHP?
jeresuikkila 10 hours ago 0 replies      
But why?
WhitneyLand 10 hours ago 4 replies      
This is a great way for Microsoft to show the potential of and build awareness for .NET core, I hope they are helping these guys.

The nuget thing is inefficient, MS should plot a path to make npm a first class citizen in all ms tools.

yarrel 8 hours ago 0 replies      
jmcdiesel 10 hours ago 1 reply      
Your developers were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didnt stop to think if they should.
pmlnr 9 hours ago 2 replies      
PHP is about to face Embrace, extend and extinguish?
Vulnerabilities in Password-Manager Apps team-sik.org
223 points by tobijkl  11 hours ago   96 comments top 19
tptacek 9 hours ago 3 replies      
A theme of this work is vulnerabilities in the "internal browser" some of the mobile password managers provide. Mobile password managers have internal browsers because it's not easy to extend the standard mobile browsers, and password managers want to automate the entry of passwords into form fields.

Don't use the internal browser of your password manager, no matter which one you use. There's too much that can go wrong, and the small convenience just isn't worth it.

chj 3 minutes ago 0 replies      
Too bad 1Password doesn't encrypt title and URLs.
AdmiralAsshat 9 hours ago 3 replies      
So, all three of the LastPass issues have been fixed, and within two weeks of being reported, to boot:

 * 2016-08-22 Vulnerability Discovered * 2016-08-24 Vulnerability Reported * 2016-09-06 Vulnerability Fixed

Velox 8 hours ago 2 replies      
One of the 1Password ones (https://team-sik.org/sik-2016-040/) about leaking URLs is marked as fixed, however, that's a little misleading. It's fixed if you use their newer vault format, which has limitations, and is not selected by default when you create a new vault. I wrote this about it a while back: https://myers.io/2015/10/22/1password-leaks-your-data/
M_Grey 9 hours ago 6 replies      
This is why I still go to the trouble of PGP encrypting a file with my passwords, rather than relying on a password manager. I keep wanting to switch, but damn it, I just can't bring myself to have that much trust in them.

Edit: Thanks for the informative replies, the links, and the advice. I'm going to explore all of my options and re-think this.

kqr2 9 hours ago 3 replies      
Some older papers on security vulnerabilities of password managers:


Any thoughts on Bruce Schneier's PasswordSafe password manager?

SeriousM 10 hours ago 2 replies      
What about enpass? That would be very interesting since they also promise to be very secure.
cjCamel 9 hours ago 0 replies      
Looks like all of the 1Password issues were discovered and fixed last September.
spullara 9 hours ago 2 replies      
I just use iCloud keychain. The third party ones can never be as secure. For non-safari usage a little less convenient but worth it.
Sir_Cmpwn 8 hours ago 0 replies      
Tangentally related:


I posted it on here the other day but it didn't go far. It's like youtube-dl but instead of downloading videos it changes your password on various online services. If you get your password compromised by vunlerabilities or whatnot it makes it easy to mass-rotate your passwords. Could use some help adding support for more websites if you're interested.

</shameless promo>

jquast 4 hours ago 1 reply      
Just my brief experience of 2-3 hours with LastPass today. Broken javascript errors when trying to import. Searched for customer support, couldn't find any! How do I file bugs? Sign up and post to their web forum?

I noticed their website is made entirely in php. Not that php is bad, but this is possibly the worst choice for a web platform that holds secrets. At only $12 a year, they probably aren't trying very hard.

bgentry 9 hours ago 1 reply      
Site's down. Text-only cached version at least lets you read some of the content: http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:kJ5Zk-7...
no_wizard 3 hours ago 0 replies      
shocked I didn't' see bitwarden in here?

I use Bitwarden for some things (lots of testing, nothing serious). Given its OSS nature, i thought it might have had more traction.

For reference: https://github.com/bitwarden

Globz 10 hours ago 0 replies      
We need the same kind of investigation for iOS, this kind of research was so much needed because after all this is where we store all of our entire internet identities, good job!
JimA 8 hours ago 0 replies      
Anyone seen anything similar on Roboform? Been using them for years but I wonder how much vulnerability testing it has gotten.
circa 5 hours ago 1 reply      
I have moved from LastPass to Dashlane and rarely have issues. Its been fairly solid for me the past year or so. Anyone had issues with Dashlane?
tehabe 5 hours ago 0 replies      
Password Safe is missing
jondubois 5 hours ago 0 replies      
Not surprising. Password manager give you convenience at the expense of security.
toyg 10 hours ago 3 replies      
I looked at the LastPass ones (all for Android) and they look relatively minor. The only real wtf is https://team-sik.org/sik-2016-022/ - hardcoding keys should be a big nope. Still, it happens only if you use a PIN rather than your master password; I hope this does not happen in iOS if you use TouchID...?
Has philosophy ever clarified mathematics? mathoverflow.net
96 points by Dawny33  7 hours ago   72 comments top 20
bykovich 5 hours ago 10 replies      
> Secondly, remember that broadly the point of philosophy is to make things not philosophy. In extremely simplistic historical terms, once natural philosophy becomes rigorous it becomes science, once philosophy of language became rigorous it became linguistics, and today we're seeing philosophy of mind turn to neuroscience.

This is absolutely not correct, and elucidates little but the prejudices of the answerer. Philosophy of language has /not/ become linguistics, philosophy of mind has /not/ become neuroscience, and only a subset of natural philosophy has become natural science.

The philosophical questions discussed by Socrates have elided the grasp of both dogmatic rigor and empiricism for twenty-four hundred years, and there seems to be absolutely no reason to expect this to change.

The answerer has either no actual grasp of the history or content of philosophy, or has simply decided, apparently by fiat, to discard all but the most narrow positivism-flavored slice as nonsense.

voidhorse 8 minutes ago 0 replies      
Frege, Russell, Whitehead, Pierce--of course!

It doesn't help that many philosophers of mathematics are, for obvious reasons, either also logicians or mathematicians, so demarcating between advancements in philosophy of mathematics that clarify mathematics and advancements in mathematics that clarify mathematics can be a bit of a fool's errand.

Whatever the case, I dislike it when folks from the sciences or mathematics try to discredit or dismiss philosophy--funnier still, and luckily not as bad, is when they question the value of philosophy without realizing that question is in and of itself a highly philosophical question!

Philosophy has been around for a long time and isn't going anywhere in the perceivable future (though I suppose it depends on what metaphysics of time you subscribe to :) ).

woodrowbarlow 4 hours ago 0 replies      
On the flip side, here's an example of mathematicians clarifying philosophy.


platz 5 hours ago 2 replies      
Carlo Rovelli: "Why Physics needs Philosophy"


A few notes from the above:

* the beginning of astronomy == plato's school

* the scientific method as falsification == Popper

* quantum theory / relativity / Heisenberg == positivism (If I don't see it (e.g. electron orbitals) it doesn't exist) (* e.g. complementarity)

* Einstein claimed that his reading of Schopenhauer was crucial to thinking about time, space, etc...

in essence, you are doing philosophy when you're re-evaluating your methodology and using a evolving reflective feedback loops to change your thinking.

philofcompguy 3 hours ago 0 replies      
As you may know, many mathematicians turned philosophers while trying to do work on the foundations of mathematics. It seems like logic was the gateway discipline. What we now know as the analytic turn in philosophy of early 20th century came from such as lineage before it devolved into philosophy of language. Frege, Russel, Whitehead, and Wittgenstein are well known in this line of thought. However, the history of philosophy and mathematics goes way back to pre-socratic philosophers like Pythagoras and centuries later Aquinas and then Descartes. The question posed is rather strange given that mathematical development has often been formed by philosophical thought. I guess by clarifying the author means providing solutions (since he/she mentions that "mathematical insight" is nowhere to be found in the literature)? Since philosophy is not the same as doing mathematics the only kinds of clarification that philosophy will provide is in terms of distinctions, definitions and criteria: what is a proof, etc. This is because 'philosophy of x' is always meta discipline.
decasteve 1 hour ago 0 replies      
Bill Lawvere was heavily influenced by philosophy in his [revolutionary] contributions to the development of Category Theory [1][2].

[1] https://ncatlab.org/nlab/show/William%20Lawvere#RelationToPh...

[2] http://philosophy.stackexchange.com/questions/9768/have-prof...

unit91 2 hours ago 1 reply      
> Question: Has it ever happened that philosophy has elucidated and clarified a mathematical concept, proof, or construction in a way useful to research mathematicians?

I would hope so! The short answer is the philosophy of Math will help you determine whether what you're researching is true! Surely it would be very bizarre to research something with complete apathy regarding its truth value. A few examples:

The famous Peano axioms [1] are widely used to prove such things as the commutative property of multiplication (ab=ba). But as the name "axiom" suggests, you just have to accept them as true or the whole thing crumbles. So why is it true that "0 is a natural number"? If this is false, much (all?) of math research is in big trouble! Does this suggest a sort of mathematical epistemic foundationalism? If so, what are its limits? When is mathematical research warranted, and when can we simply regard mathematical beliefs as properly basic?

Also, consider the realist/anti-realist debate [2, 3] which seeks to answer the question "are numbers, sets, functions, etc. actual features of the real world, or are they all just in our heads?" (or some refined variation thereof). If they are real entities, how is it that these non-causal things (like 5) lie at the very heart of the laws governing the physical, causal universe? But if they aren't real, then what possible explanation can one give for the perfect harmony of the physical world and these functions, that are ultimately all in my head? Moreover, why is belief in these unreal entities so widespread (I know of no "amathists")?

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peano_axioms

[2] https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/platonism-mathematics/

[3] https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/scientific-realism/

grandalf 5 hours ago 1 reply      
Isn't the crux of this back and forth proofs that rely upon the axiom of choice vs those that do not?

It is my understanding that philosophers have added a lot to our understanding of how the axiom of choice impacts logical reasoning about things which matter to humanity in concrete ways.

CalChris 4 hours ago 0 replies      
Bishop Berkeley's response to Newton might qualify. Newton had something useful but Berkeley showed he hadn't proved anything. It wasn't until Cauchy (?) proved things rigorously that calculus was on a solid footing.
mymythisisthis 3 hours ago 0 replies      
Most of the famous mathematicians were driven by philosophy. For example Kepler wanted to keep perfection in the new model universe. He thought he could do it by using Plato's solids for the relative distances between the planets. He was wrong, but the mathematical attempts he tired help to form a more correct answer. The motivation was philosophical.
thwd 5 hours ago 2 replies      
There's a joke: Mathematics is just applied Philosophy.

It bears some truth :)

platz 4 hours ago 0 replies      
Also, philosophy has been dogged since Descartes with the self-imposed goal of providing a "foundation" for all knowledge enterprises (e.g. science, math) by attempting to, put crudely, solve the mind-body problem and legitimatize that our thoughts and connection to the world are valid.
DanBC 3 hours ago 0 replies      
It might be interesting to ask the same question on the partner site http://philosophy.stackexchange.com/
zdean 5 hours ago 1 reply      
Wouldn't mathematics simply be considered an epistemological branch of philosophy?
baq 5 hours ago 1 reply      
the top answer really doesn't leave much to argue about.
Entangled 1 hour ago 0 replies      
Yes, mathematics is just an unidirectional arrow of opinionated integers.

And 42.

balsam 1 hour ago 0 replies      
philosophy of philosophy, a godelian knot.
scythe 4 hours ago 1 reply      
In some sense Grothendieck's investigations could be considered "philosophical"; in the early 20th century algebraic geometers studied objects called "varieties" and Grothendieck's coup resulted from asking the question "what is the general class of object with which we can do algebraic geometry?". Today scheme theory is entirely mathematical, but a scheme had to be conceived as a philosophical concept first. The link also mentions Turing's elucidation of the Turing machine as a similar process.

There is also the case of Frank Ramsey and Piero Sraffa, who were the only close friends of Ludwig Wittgenstein, and who went on to make major epistemological contributions to economics (and Ramsey was a philosopher in his own right): Ramsey was the first person to really clarify the concept of a subjective probability, and Sraffa was central in the capital aggregation controversy.

balsam 1 hour ago 0 replies      
philosophy of philosophy, a godelian-gordian knot
RESTful API is a big lie mmikowski.github.io
51 points by jaequery  2 hours ago   47 comments top 19
debaserab2 1 minute ago 0 replies      
Most of the problems described with REST in this article are examples of REST implemented improperly. We've had years to get it right; things like HTTP verb support, debugging, discoverability are all by and large a solved problem. The one point that stands is that it is deeply tied to HTTP, but I consider that to be a positive: a well designed REST API means the message is only about the content of what it's serving and not about negotiation of that content.

Here in the "JSON Pure API" you see a reinvention of HTTP request and response concepts built into the API payload, leaving the implementation of negotiation up to the consumer of the API. You lose all the benefits of years of development that have gone into browsers and web servers to handle this for you.

The main problem with REST is that people tend to call any JSON endpoint they build a REST API (and hence the term, "RESTful") which leads to a misunderstanding of what REST actually is.

derefr 1 hour ago 2 replies      
The "true spirit" of REST, to me, is that there's a certain set of things you can do when creating an API that will let you re-use the huge amount of HTTP middleware that's been written and get correct (and useful!) semantics from it. Caches (browser-, edge-, and server-side-), load balancers, forward- and reverse-proxies, application-layer firewalls, etc. will all "just work" for your software if you do REST correctly, and won't have any weird edge-cases.

Re-implementing those same semantics in your own messaging protocol / format, without intertwining the concerns of the protocol and the message format, throws away any/all of those benefits. You need a protocol that guarantees that middleware can "look inside" the messages it's passing (or at least their metadata), in order for any of this to work. That's why HTTP has both a transparent part (req path+headers; resp status code) and an opaque part (req and resp bodies) to each message: the transparent part is there for data that affects middleware behavior, while the opaque part is there for data that doesn't.

Note that that doesn't mean you're stuck with HTTP1. SPDY/HTTP2 is effectively an entirely different protocolbut it keeps the same semantics of requiring certain properties of the metadata tagged onto each message at the protocol level, so that anything that speaks the protocol can use that metadata to inform its decisions.

codr4life 1 hour ago 6 replies      
I'm going to have to call bullshit on that one. REST is one of the more successful strategies we've come up with for connecting systems, this is just another case of letting perfect stand in the way of good enough. Using GET for non-destructive operations and POST for updates and deletes is a nice, portable compromise. I've been trying hard for years to find a reason to bother with PUT, but so far I've found it not worth the effort.
teddyh 1 hour ago 0 replies      
In my opinion, you can't really understand REST until you understand HATEOAS - the two concepts work together and REST (and the restrictions it imposes) isn't really very meaningful without HATEOAS.

Twilio Conference 2011: Steve Klabnik, Everything You Know About REST Is Wrong: http://vimeo.com/30764565

REST APIs must be hypertext-driven: http://roy.gbiv.com/untangled/2008/rest-apis-must-be-hyperte...

Hypermedia APIs - Jon Moore: http://vimeo.com/20781278

Designing a RESTful Web API: http://blog.luisrei.com/articles/rest.html

notfed 1 hour ago 0 replies      
"For example, most web browsers have limited support for PUT or DELETE."

Um...is this guy trying to implement REST clients with HTML forms? Does he know about ajax? Fact check: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/165779/are-the-put-delete...

awinder 37 minutes ago 0 replies      

 Ever notice how nobody calls their API RESTpure? Instead they call it RESTful or RESTish. Thats because nobody can agree on what all the methods, payloads, and response codes really mean.
These reasons have nothing to do with why people don't use the term "REST" versus using "RESTful". RESTful is the compromised approach, cribbing some of the concepts outlined in Fielding's paper but dispensing with others. Among those are a de-emphasis of linking, and a url naming pattern. HTTP verbs describe types of actions in RESTful lingo, versus meaning something about the different idempotency & safety guarantees of a request in the REST paper.

In REST, I'm not sure that a lot of these issues are that contentious. I do think that some of the emphasized points in "RESTful" design practice can create more contention in API design, but that's the downfall of that one pattern, it has nothing to do with what Fielding described.

 No governing body - at least to my knowledge - has convened to set things straight
IANA has a ton of info on link relations and they're thoroughly speced. IETF has tons of API / REST related specifications. Profiles allow for defining what your data means, there's open source curated lists of these profiles already so if you were designing an API you could even leverage existing works to make your design easier.

 Roy is probably a great guy and he certainly had a lot of great ideas. However, I dont believe that RESTful APIs was one of them.
This statement is just downright hysterical given the relative disparity here. So much of the web is owed to Fielding's paper, there's been countless books and blog posts and just human man hours devoted to the work he's done. Who's this guy? Why is this such a trend in blog posts in this community, it just looks foolish and comes off as petty...

rs86 1 hour ago 0 replies      
I liked that the article made me think of using websockets for a pure JSON API, but I think it misses a lot of what is nice about rest and much of what it criticises is actually HTTP..... Rest as a set of verbs that act on resources is really useful.

I used to find it awkward to implement services in rest, as in some action that is triggered and may overlive the request cycle until I started thinking of service commands as items in a work queue that get processed by a worker. So when a service is requested I can see it as a resource being created.

ravibala1 39 minutes ago 0 replies      
Seems like most of the comments hate on REST because it's been poorly implemented by an API developer. Why is the solution yet another API protocol (JSONpure) and not stricter enforcement? (Idealistic i know...)

The point about SOAP not requiring documentation makes no sense either. You'd still need to document what the underlying fields in the various endpoints are. (We build against a lot of terribly documented SOAP APIs and its pure torture)

In terms of PUT (and PATCH) not being extensively used - it comes down to your use case. For the idempotent micro-services we build APIs against, there is a massive difference in the behavior expected for POST/PUT/PATCH and it would be pretty burdensome (and limiting) to have to create parsing code on the server for POST.

jquast 1 hour ago 3 replies      
I think what bothers me most about REST is that the endpoint is not sufficient to get started. The schema is never known. I hate SOAP and xml-rpc, but at least you can know for sure what endpoints, parameters, and variable types are appropriate. With REST, you must have documentation or source code of the service you communicate with, they offer no discoverability.

I won't use REST again. I got an opportunity to use GraphQL recently in my profession and all of my projects will be using it in the future.

bradmwalker 1 hour ago 0 replies      
gkoberger 1 hour ago 0 replies      
The promise of APIs is simple. Send some data, something happens, get some data back.

But at about hour 4 of wrangling a bearer token to authenticate your barely-documentated PATCH request that is returning a strange error about your application/x-www-form-urlencoded body, you start to realize that APIs in theory are very different from APIs in practice.

(That being said, I don't love the "solution". It's very simplistic and it seems like the author doesn't really understand what he dislike about APIs. I don't think we need another protocol, but rather higher-level tools for dealing with them.)

Manishearth 36 minutes ago 0 replies      
> Ever notice how nobody calls their API RESTpure? Instead they call it RESTful or RESTish.

Isn't that just because RESTful is a play on words?

> For example, most web browsers have limited support for PUT or DELETE.

Really? How? If anything browsers restrict these methods to exactly how they should be used (DELETE can't have postdata but PUT can).

It's true that folks don't use PUT/DELETE much (the alternative works perfectly well though), but to me that's because they're unnecessary complexity, not browser support.

toadkicker 22 minutes ago 0 replies      
In the second article the author explains what a 'JSON pure' api would function. It completely throws out the OSI model and provides no way for the application layer to react to transmission errors, which HTTP codes provide.
metafunctor 27 minutes ago 0 replies      
The proposed way forward appears to be just discarding all of the common, reusable, standard forms we have started to build with HTTP.

JSON-Pure is not much more than an encoding. RESTful is an entire protocol.

elastic_church 4 minutes ago 0 replies      

but timeless

davidhariri 40 minutes ago 0 replies      
The author has some good points, but they're drowned in exaggeration and dogma.
ads1018 1 hour ago 0 replies      
(ahem!) graphql
joatmon-snoo 1 hour ago 0 replies      
This reminds me a lot of Bret Victor's "The Future of Programming".


fleitz 1 hour ago 0 replies      
Here's the rub, you're completely right, the problem is for the most part when you don't have rockstars making JSON Pure APIs you end up with half of HTTP redone in some god awful manner.

I once worked with an API where they implemented their own HTTPS and because their own https didn't support gzip they removed quotes from json keys to save bandwidth. JSON pure probably is better when working with knowledgeable people but REST is better than what most people come up with and when not following REST

The Brilliance of Dwarf Fortress (2011) nytimes.com
284 points by 0wl3x  10 hours ago   200 comments top 21
kibwen 9 hours ago 22 replies      
One of the things that I find interesting about Dwarf Fortress is that (to use programming jargon) it's sort of a declarative game rather than an imperative game. In e.g. StarCraft you select an individual unit and demand that it move to a specific point on the map; in Dwarf Fortress you configure which dwarves are allowed to perform certain tasks, then you place a task in a queue, and some dwarf somewhere will (eventually (hopefully)) take care of it (until they get distracted by a party, or decide to go fishing, or get hungry and wander off to the dining hall, or fall asleep in a stockpile, or drop anything they're carrying and run screaming from the forgotten beast hurtling down the hallway at them). It's a fascinating difference in paradigm, and I wish more games would explore the idea of actors in the world being chaotic/free agents which will only somewhat prioritize your wishes.
datruth29 10 hours ago 9 replies      
Dwarf Fortress is an example of how a great idea can be held back by a horrible user experience. The UI is a nightmare, and the performance worsens as the game gets bigger.

I've recently started playing Rim World, which is essentially a Dwarf Fortress light. I'm enjoying it way more than I enjoyed Dwarf Fortress despite being a less complex (relatively speaking) game because it offers a FAR superior interface and presents it's mechanics in a friendlier way.

chairmanwow 9 hours ago 1 reply      
Dwarf Fortress was one of the first computer games that I really ever got into. I was a little 15 year old that had a shitty desktop computer that wasn't always connected to the internet and DF has provided me with many tens of hours of entertainment. I remember the depth and realism included in game caused me to want to learn to program myself. I wish the UI was better, but honestly I think the engagement with the keyboard in DF is it's strongest selling point. Every game action can literally be performed with the keyboard, and this means that I don't need to wait for the text on menus to mentally register, move a mouse, click. I can essentially type the commands at speed.

TLDR: DF is a great game that shaped my childhood and motivated me to become a programmer.

sshagent 9 hours ago 0 replies      
As someone who has wasted far too many hours in games, i believe that DF to be simply the best game ever made. The UI is rather horrific but something you can get used to. Admitedly it took so many efforts to figure out the game but that becomes half the 'fun'. Anyone wanting to play, find a lets play video (for the current version) and just follow along. Sounds silly, but thats how i finally got it.
mmanfrin 5 hours ago 1 reply      
Very strange timing -- I spent about an hour last night looking in to DF and other games since I like that type of 'emergent' or 'declarative' (as another comment here put it) gameplay.

Other games I have played of a similar vein: Rimworld (great), Prison Architect (great), Banished (great, needs mods to add more content), Planetbase (EA, good, light on content after 2~ hours).

Others I found were: Stonehearth, Gnomoria, Town, Kingdoms and Castles (not out yet), Dungeon Keeper 1 and 2 (kinda) / War for the Overworld (fan remake of DK, essentially).

laurent123456 10 hours ago 1 reply      
kuharich 1 hour ago 0 replies      
ghotli 9 hours ago 3 replies      
One of the central questions of our time may become whether or not it's ethical to turn off dwarf fortress.
a3n 6 hours ago 0 replies      
A very touching story about the two brothers. I especially enjoyed the idea that they send drawings and stories to donors. I hope they're still doing well.

I dl'd it and started it up. I'm now wondering what I'm looking at. Not being a gamer, I don't have the visual vocabulary or expectations, so I'm glad there's a wiki; the in-game manual doesn't fully work. EDIT: My reading comprehension is not fully functional, the manual works.

> Waters not doing it for me these days, he said. I know its bad, but the sugar goes right into programming the game. If I dont drink soda now, I get a headache and cant do any work.

I feel bad that he's sacrificing his health for our pleasure.

> Hed enrolled at the University of Washington, ... Tarn moved into a string of dingy one-bedrooms with bad moisture problems in one, he discovered a shelf fungus growing behind his couch.

I probably lived in one of those when I was at UW. It was a "World's Fair" apartment building, garden level, the only window facing north and looking up an outside stairwell into the alley. Google maps shows me that much of all that has been scraped and replaced.

eduren 10 hours ago 0 replies      
Got to meet Tarn Adams a few years ago when I was into Dwarf Fortress and the community. Really cool guy, you can tell he loves what he does.
dri_ft 8 hours ago 2 replies      
Here's a question about Dwarf Fortress: I play a lot of roguelikes, which are a genre of similar games, insofar as they're relatively complex, keyboard-and-ASCII oriented games made by geeks for geeks. Like Dwarf Fortress, these tend to have accumulated a lot of developer-hours, and like Dwarf Fortress, these developer-hours tend to get channeled into adding complexity to the game rather than superficial polish, like graphics and interface.

But they vary in terms of their approach this complexity: some seem to always want to add more, seeing more complicatedness as always better, and end up feeling like they contain everything but the kitchen sink - complexity for complexity's sake. (Nethack, I'm looking at you.) Others add it only where it's justified by producing interesting gameplay decisions. (Brogue and Sil are rigorous about stripping out unneeded complexity and getting the maximum amount of subtlety and nuance from a stripped-back set of mechanics. Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup is more complex, but seems aware of the trade-offs around complexity, and is known for removing features as often as it adds them.)

Which of these camps does Dwarf Fortress fall into? There's a lot of complexity, features and mechanics there. Is it all justified, in terms of adding interest to gameplay? Or is just for complexity's sake?

strainer 7 hours ago 1 reply      
This winter a player has documented seemingly the greatest game ever to be played out on Dwarf Fortess. A lyrically narrated 320 year Saga, culminating in the construction of a glass fortress... in Hell.

Archcrystal - 320 years in a fortress (w/spoilers read 37592 times)


inetknght 7 hours ago 1 reply      
I've never played Dwarf Fortress (something I hope to rectify in the nearish future). However, friends have told me that it's somewhat similar to Factorio, which is a game that I highly recommend programmers to play.
erikb 8 hours ago 0 replies      
> His expenses are low $860 a month in rent, $750 a month to Zach for his help and a few hundred dollars for utilities and food

Uh. The US... sorry, but if you spend like $1600 before food that is not "low expenses". If you can get below $1300 WITH food then I'd say that's low. Some people have to live with much less than $1000/month altogether.

wyldfire 9 hours ago 5 replies      
Semi-related: Don't Starve is a great indie game with a different theme but IMO similarly complex world simulation. [1] [2]

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don't_Starve

[2] http://store.steampowered.com/app/322330/

jrpt 9 hours ago 4 replies      
How did Dwarf Fortress become popular?
cadu2 6 hours ago 2 replies      
How hard DF is compared to Nethack? I've ascended on Nethack and it is always a very tricky business... this game seems on a whole new level.
gbersac 8 hours ago 0 replies      
Winning go and poker ? Easy, I'll believe in IA when it will be able to handle dwarf fortress !
zach 7 hours ago 0 replies      
Just yesterday I was looking up how to recommend someone for a MacArthur grant specifically for the Adams brothers. Sadly, the nomination committee is anonymous and does not accept recommendations. It's a shame because this seems like the ideal case for their grant.
Globz 4 hours ago 0 replies      
Only in DF you can talk about turtle reproduction....

here's a bug related to turtle pond going extinct :


"Since turtles were my only source of shells, which are ever so important for moods, I am keenly feeling their absence after a few years. I went ahead and modded my world so that hoofs and horns can be used also for shells, (which is actually very cool btw, its awesome to have an artifact decorated with Elk Bird horn.)

However, my ponds were filled with turtles early on, and I accumulated many shells that unfortunately rotted away. It seems like fish populations are regenerating, but turtles are not among those, and since I found that odd I decided to report it."

"Pond turtles lay eggs, which might contribute why they will only breed in off site statistics if that's any relevance.

DF structures used for dfhack only implies that eggs that are hatched go into certain classes, and entity ID is one of them for intelligent species (crow men eggs layed and hatched on site belong to you etc., underground egg laying races have been in constant decline since they were added because of this until recently)

Egg layers have always had a hard time repopulating due to dependency on a object to breed which limited and stagnated them in world gen (made easier by spontaneous population regeneration in world-gen recently). I cannot recollect if its possible to offer pet pond turtles nestboxes to use by pitting or pasturing enough of them in a contained area as a alternative or even if they have additional orientation/marriage barriers to overcome we are not aware of.

All gendered vermin breed (or apparently breed, they have the prequesite animal tags but its uncertain whether they become pregnant whilst in the game world before leaving for the site population tally and being replaced with a new generated creature in their momentary existances, or even if they do become pregnant at all with child/adult born states) hermaphrodital or non-gender typical vermin are usually accounted for by being virtually innumerable to compensate for no breeding on site. Technically if the female pond turtle could get off the map by dissapearing and being replaced whilst pregnant it could spawn additional turtles slowly.

Fish are very visible with ASCII symbols and can be seen in murky ponds and rivers for periods of time if a example is needed, if they are close together they are in the capacity to breed and keep the numbers up. Drop a sizable amount of caught vermin fish into a empty pool and it should sustain the fish in theory as they repopulate with compatible mates in that area.

Similar designs have been used with isolated cave spider rooms with wild vermin which appear to be self sustainable and harvested with burrowed animal trappers & web collectors. "

partycoder 10 hours ago 3 replies      
Dwarf Fortress is incredibly hard to learn.

Gnomoria and Rim World might be simpler games to learn. However not as deep or complex.

YouTube TV youtube.com
204 points by loisaidasam  4 hours ago   174 comments top 50
ravenstine 8 minutes ago 0 replies      
Um, no thanks.

Most of that content is uninteresting, free with an antenna, and loaded with commercial breaks. I would rather spend that money for a season pass on Amazon, or to go out and see a movie once a month. If money weren't an issue, my time is still better spent on Netflix or watching lectures by smart people on YouTube. I guess its fine if they want to attract the geriatric crowd, but I cant imagine people in my generation paying that much for a vastly inferior experience. As others have said, a cheaper day pass would be better, as there still is a place for live content. Whether or not that should be a form of life support for the old guard corporate media empire, that's up to you.

kevincennis 2 hours ago 4 replies      
Former Aereo engineer here.

First off, there are really two main reasons for someone not to have a cable subscription:

1. They don't care about the content

2. Price sensitivity

At Aereo, we saw these sort of mix together to create hugely elastic demand.

For a while, we offered a $1 "day pass" that would give you access to live TV for 24 hours at a time.

During the Super Bowl and various award shows, we had crazy numbers of people sign up for these day passes. We actually had to stop offering them, because we literally couldn't build out the extra capacity in a cost-effective way (remember, we needed distinct physical antennas and transcoders for every user we served).

It was tough enough to get people to pay $8/month for access to live broadcast TV and a cloud-based DVR. I have no idea how YouTube will convince anyone to pay $35.

If they can work out the licenses, I'd imagine something like a day pass would work well with consumers but it's probably hard to get the economics of that to work out.

zeta0134 11 minutes ago 0 replies      
In light grey on the bottom of the page, for me:"SHOWTIME available for extra monthly charge"

Yup, this is going to be exactly like Cable television, and it's no cheaper. No thank you, I cut that cord for a reason.

Maybe if it had no ads? But I'm sure it'll be live television with the ads. There's no point.

shaunol 3 hours ago 6 replies      
This is a cool idea but it still falls very short by not serving users outside of the US. To the point where the welcome page doesn't even acknowledge that there may be global interest: https://tv.youtube.com/welcome/ (enter your ZIP code, no country picker ... YouTube, you do realize you're on the internet, right?)

Does YouTube care about getting content to the world? Or just getting as many of their fingers in the pie as possible and abusing the current geo-restricted licensing model while they can?

halayli 4 hours ago 6 replies      
Being asked for a zip code shows that not even youtube is able to change the old broadcasting business model.

The day will come when TV streaming businesses takes over and removes the virtual location barriers set by the industry.

ipozgaj 39 minutes ago 0 replies      
People commenting that $35 is too much for the content included - if you want an equivalent set of channels from Comcast/XFINITY, it will cost you almost 3x more. So it's a non brainer for me, and the fact I don't have to deal with Comcast is worth even more than saving ~60% of my monthly cable bill.
youdontknowtho 2 hours ago 1 reply      
I'm just not seeing 35$ a month worth of value. Sit coms? Get a grip, man. I feel like they should pay me to watch them. TV is a wasteland. Some cable channels are pretty good. SciFi, Comdey Central, sometimes FX. (I don't like giving money to Fox, but Always Sunny is the funniest thing ever made.)

If they had a way to pick channels and only pay for those, that would be worth looking at.

EDIT: Do you still have to watch commercials? I don't see anything about commercials. If there are commercials then not just "no", but "hell, f*ck you for asking, no".

kristofferR 3 hours ago 2 replies      
"Unlimited cloud DVR" seems really pointless. Why not just save everything, as it airs, in a central archive that the users can browse at their leisure instead? It also seems to mean that you can't rewind channels you weren't watching, that you manually have to record stuff yourself. Really backwards of Google if my assumptions are correct.

It seems weird that Google aren't able to create/negotiate something relevant for today. All the things I talked about are becoming common for normal TV providers in Norway.

vinylkey 4 hours ago 4 replies      
> Stream ABC, CBS, FOX, NBC & more.

What's included in "& more"? I can get the listed channels from an antenna.

colinbartlett 4 hours ago 5 replies      
Is this similar to Direct TV Now[1]?

Both of these services seem like an interesting step forward, but then, who really wants to watch live TV anymore, besides sports fans? The whole idea of watching something at a specific time that it's aired just seems unimaginable to me after years of on demand streaming. Not to mention commercial breaks.

1. https://directvnow.com/

smilbandit 18 minutes ago 0 replies      
I'd be cooler if I didn't have this shiny new 1tb data cap on my internet now.
rubicon33 3 hours ago 2 replies      
When am I going to be able to choose my channels on an individual, channel by channel basis, and then receive a total cost based on those channels?

If I want ONLY the Science channel, then I should be able to purchase JUST the science channel for like, $5/mo.

itchyjunk 1 hour ago 1 reply      
I asked my questions in a "dupe" thread so reposting here.

From TV to internet to TV on internet to internet TV on any devices. One thing I wonder about is how people who purchase "bundles" traditionally will react. I'd imagine they are the biggest consumer of TV programs. (TV + INTERNET or TV + Phone + Internet style bundles). Will it end up costing the same when you break you bundle to only get internet from a provider and get "TV" from Youtube?

Another question I have is about the "cloud DVR". How does it work? Is the content already in a server somewhere so when I hit the "DVR" it just tags that? It makes no sense saving the same content multiple time because multiple people tried to DVR the same episode right?

Is lot of the modern TV already through internet? If not, won't this cause an increase in internet bandwidth used? Maybe it's no significant but i'm curious about it none the less.

There was a talk on HN about cell phones and FM being enabled on it. Will a similar thing happen on TV, i.e my TV won't work without internet in the future?

Does privacy concerns increase with this? Is it easier to track users view patterns and what not with this as opposed to traditional tv? Will it be more likely that people will post the episodes or clips they watch to youtube or will it be less common as it will be even easier for youtube to recognize and flag stuff? (I wonder if youtube will provide a tool to post tiny clips directly from TV so people can have discussions and what not as well).Thanks in advance if anyone takes time to answer any of my question!

koolba 3 hours ago 2 replies      
> $35/month

That's a series chunk of coin for something that you can get for free with an antennae.

I wonder how much of that is licensing. It's got to be a huge chunk of it.

Also, who watches any of those crap channels anyway?!

djhworld 4 hours ago 1 reply      
Wonder how many commercial breaks you'll get the privilege of watching for your 35 bucks
hkmurakami 39 minutes ago 0 replies      
Initial reactions:

1) Will it have ESPN? I only really care about ESPN on a daily basis for TV.

2) "Never run out of DVR storage" -> Will I be able to easily save recordings of any show on Youtube TV? I value this a lot for particular sporting events and have years' worth of footage backed up.

hcarvalhoalves 3 hours ago 0 replies      
> Coming soon. Get on the list to find out when YouTube TV launches where you live.

Why the f* internet content still depends on where I live in 2017.

haubey 3 hours ago 1 reply      
I'd just like to see when they start doing personalized ads for every different person. I know TV companies have started to do more targeted ads [1] but if there's a company that can do it, it's gotta be google. If there's enough ad revenue to go around, it could be a tipping point where the local channel rules cease to matter.

[1] https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-09-29/tv-ads-ar...

faceyspacey 1 hour ago 0 replies      
I really don't understand--those channels are free with an HD antenna. I don't know if this is possible anymore, but those channels used to be free through your cable cord, even without a cable box. ABC, fox, nbc, and cbs are free. Why pay $35 just to remove adds.

Are they including, AMC, MTV, etc? I don't think so or they would say so.

Ps. This is a serious question. Please someone help me understand how they are charging for free channels just to drop their ads (presumably)?

crispytx 3 hours ago 0 replies      
Seems like a pretty steep price to watch network television. As a cord-cutter, I think its a great idea because you can't get the networks with SlingTV, and TV antennas suck. But yeah, I'm not going to pay $35 for network television. I'll just keep using my shitty antenna.
Brendinooo 3 hours ago 1 reply      
"NBA Basketball on Fox Sports Regional Networks" - Would this would be a bit of a coup for YouTube? My regional sports network doesn't have any streaming options; not sure if other markets are more liberal with this.

Also, that wording...are they getting the whole regional network or just the NBA basketball?

bubblethink 56 minutes ago 0 replies      
It's quite tragic to see cable reinvented piece by piece. Piracy still remains the only unifying force.
NeonVice 4 hours ago 1 reply      
Is this the same as Aereo, the service that was shutdown by the supreme court, only with a valid rebroadcast license?
nodesocket 3 hours ago 0 replies      
Sports!!! All I need and care about for my $160 a month Xfinity cable bill is Sports. Unfortunately sports takes places on various channels (ESPN, ESPN2, FOX, CBS, CBS Sports, TNT, TBS, TruTV).
shmerl 44 minutes ago 0 replies      
Is it DRM-free HTML5, or it's using DRM blobs and EME?
geodel 2 hours ago 0 replies      
With $35/mo, it looks like another half-ass effort like Google phone hardware business. For 10 dollars extra over internet charges per month I get all the channels that this post explicitly mentions + some more I never watched.
WayneBro 4 hours ago 1 reply      
Wow, so is this the official beginning of the age of decentralized cable-companies?

As a cable cutter, one thing I am really looking forward to is the day that I can flip channels again very easily, without having to think about what I am doing.

katehall 1 hour ago 0 replies      
Who gonna pay $35/month? It does not make sense when you can get TV subscription for $10/month
divbit 2 hours ago 0 replies      
Wow - good job. Literally people (myself included) were commenting this morning in the saving twitter thread about how something like this is really needed.
ganfortran 3 hours ago 0 replies      
> $35/month.

With Ads? Ouch, NO.

krzyk 4 hours ago 1 reply      
They ask for zip code but don't ask for country, should I assume (again) that they mean the default (USA) country?
i336_ 2 hours ago 0 replies      
What about http://youtube.com/tv/ ? Is this a different thing?
tombert 4 hours ago 1 reply      
This is cool, though part of the reason I like things like Hulu Plus is that I don't have to worry about commercials, and it's literally a third of the price.

I do find it interesting though; Youtube/Google is taking all the steps to be the next Time Warner or Comcast it seems. I wonder if this proves that that industry isn't impossible to break into.

soheil 4 hours ago 0 replies      
The page is extremely void of any details, reminds me of Cable companies landing pages. This is odd because I noticed there has been a recent explosion of third party live CNN, FOX News, ... channels, not sure if this is because YT made their copyright detection algorithms more lenient as a segue to YT TV.
wnevets 4 hours ago 1 reply      
$35/month ouch.
shirro 3 hours ago 1 reply      
Why would anyone want to pay $35 per month to access tired old ad supported programming when they can get subscriptions from 3 streaming services for that price.
overcast 4 hours ago 2 replies      
So $35 to stream what is already available free over the air in HD, with a $20 antenna?
sachinag 4 hours ago 1 reply      
You announce this on February 28 without TBS, TNT, or truTV? I get that Turner had you, but come on. Wait until April to announce if you're not gonna have them. Or even until June, when the NBA conference finals are over.
viseztrance 2 hours ago 0 replies      
Any thoughts on why they've chosen tv.youtube.com over youtube.tv?

(youtube.tv redirects to .com)

rajathagasthya 4 hours ago 1 reply      
Very interesting. It's a shame Apple shied away from providing TV streaming.
caio1982 3 hours ago 0 replies      
Meanwhile, I am very happy with youtube.com/tv on my TV. No worldwide availability is ridiculous these days.
koolba 3 hours ago 0 replies      
I'm guessing there's no way to sign up for this and not have Google keep track of my TV habits.
uladzislau 2 hours ago 0 replies      
Is Google launching something that Apple passed on a while ago?
Animats 1 hour ago 0 replies      
$420 a year to watch broadcast TV?
rco8786 4 hours ago 2 replies      
What does "6 accounts, 1 price" mean?
IanDrake 4 hours ago 2 replies      
I don't see the value proposition here. Can anyone explain what I'm getting for $35 (over cheap or free alternatives)?
mmanfrin 3 hours ago 0 replies      
$35 to get the channels you get OTA...
tehabe 3 hours ago 0 replies      
April 1st is early this year, isn't it?
WebAssembly consensus and end of Browser Preview w3.org
67 points by brosky117  7 hours ago   16 comments top 6
pella 3 hours ago 0 replies      
Developers Guide "This page provides step-by-step instructions to compile a simple program directly to WebAssembly."


z1mm32m4n 46 minutes ago 0 replies      
I think the big milestone for me is going to be when LLVM has first-class support for a wasm backend. I get that you can already get similar behavior using emscripten through asm.js to wasm, but it still feels clunky.

Even still, it's great to see that things are still moving on smoothly (and the new logo looks really nice!).

zfedoran 1 hour ago 4 replies      
I'd love to know what the current advantages are over running asm.js? I understand that it will definitely be faster eventually, but if I have a project that uses asm.js today, would it make sense to run it with WebAssembly instead? (ignoring the fact that not all browsers support it)

One potential issue:

"If you have lots of back-and-forth between WebAssembly and JS (as you do with smaller tasks), then this overhead is noticeable."

As far as I'm aware, asm.js code does not have an issue with this, as it is just js code. Is this correct?

(edit: I should have mentioned that I'm primarily interested from an electron.js point of view at the moment, where Firefox asm.js optimizations are unavailable)

pella 3 hours ago 0 replies      
more: https://hacks.mozilla.org/2017/02/where-is-webassembly-now-a...

"With this, developers can start shipping WebAssembly code. For earlier versions of browsers, developers can send down an asm.js version of the code. Because asm.js is a subset of JavaScript, any JS engine can run it. With Emscripten, you can compile the same app to both WebAssembly and asm.js.Even in the initial release, WebAssembly will be fast. But it should get even faster in the future, through a combination of fixes and new features."

gedy 1 hour ago 3 replies      
I worry it means "end of browser view source" and frankly concerned this will be (ab)used to implement DRM for information that we can easily view and copy the source now.
felipellrocha 3 hours ago 1 reply      
Does anyone have an example on how to get the SDL2 to compile using WebAssembly?
QEMU: virtfs permits guest to access entire host filesystem chromium.org
118 points by remx  11 hours ago   40 comments top 7
devicenull 11 hours ago 2 replies      
The v9fs code has been a major source of bugs. Hopefully no one's using that in production...


sofaofthedamned 6 hours ago 0 replies      
Virtfs is a cluster fuck. Using rsync over it creates hundreds of thousands of file handles that never close. Reported to Ubuntu months ago, nothing fixed. Red Hat had the better idea of going nowhere near it. Canonical produce so much shovelware that they don't support, I won't get bit by this again.


gbrown_ 10 hours ago 3 replies      
Semi hopping on the QEMU bashing train but recall Google ripped it out for GCE.


codebeaker 9 hours ago 0 replies      
From the title I understood this was a feature that had arrived in QEMU, seems like it could have it's place on development machines/etc where the only reason you're using a VM is to get access to some alt. architecture.
als0 10 hours ago 3 replies      
Yet another example where SELinux could have mitigated this effect.
Endy 6 hours ago 2 replies      
Um, silly question. Does this affect people using QEMU to run ReactOS, FreeDOS, and their proprietary counterparts to play old games and use old programs that don't work as well in DOSBox?
f2f 4 hours ago 0 replies      
well then, plan9 finally becomes useful for something!
A software engineer was detained for several hours by U.S. Customs recode.net
36 points by palidanx  1 hour ago   3 comments top 3
LeoNatan25 1 hour ago 0 replies      
This reads like a The Onion article. I had to double check the URL to authenticate it is an actual article.

U.S. border patrol is getting more ridiculous by the day, but considering the ignoramus idiot at the top, it is not surprising. It's good that more and more horror stories are surfacing.

dmitrygr 16 minutes ago 0 replies      
As a US citizen (and thus unlikely to be denied entry), I'd write my answer in hex-represented bytes (representing arm instruction set). good luck :)
Google Goes Public with Unpatched Microsoft Edge and IE Vulnerability chromium.org
323 points by uber1geek  9 hours ago   123 comments top 16
rattray 8 hours ago 3 replies      
Looks like they thought this would get fixed:

> I will not make any further comments on exploitability, at least not until the bug is fixed. The report has too much info on that as it is (I really didn't expect this one to miss the deadline).

Worth mentioning that "Goes Public" implies there was a human who pulled the trigger; it was a bot:

> This bug is subject to a 90 day disclosure deadline. If 90 days elapsewithout a broadly available patch, then the bug report will automaticallybecome visible to the public.


> Deadline exceeded -- automatically derestricting

andreyf 8 hours ago 6 replies      
This is not the first time Google has disclosed unpatched vulns in Microsoft product [1]. Anyone know any more?

What's up with them not being able to patch on time? How is 90 days not enough to get a patch out the door? That's a quarter, for goodness' sake!

1. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12841672

george_ciobanu 6 hours ago 1 reply      
"Project Zero's disclosure deadline policy has been in place since the formation of our team earlier in 2014. It's the result of many years of careful consideration and industry-wide discussions about vulnerability remediation. Security researchers have been using roughly the same disclosure principles for the past 13 years (since the introduction of "Responsible Disclosure" in 2001), and we think that our disclosure principles need to evolve with the changing infosec ecosystem. In other words, as threats change, so should our disclosure policy.

On balance, Project Zero believes that disclosure deadlines are currently the optimal approach for user security - it allows software vendors a fair and reasonable length of time to exercise their vulnerability management process, while also respecting the rights of users to learn and understand the risks they face. By removing the ability of a vendor to withhold the details of security issues indefinitely, we give users the opportunity to react to vulnerabilities in a timely manner, and to exercise their power as a customer to request an expedited vendor response."

From https://www.engadget.com/2015/01/02/google-posts-unpatched-m...

johnsmith21006 8 hours ago 1 reply      
Google owns a decent chunk of CloudFlare. They shared the flaw as they should last week.

I see nothing close to Google trying to get MS. Instead it is what should be done.

Mow me with things like Scrougle and MS replaced YouTube as with their own i probably would not be so nice.

Look at Amazon will not allow Chromecast to be sold on their site. Personally i would have removed Amazon from their search engine but not Google.

Look at Uber. If i was Google i would use my power to destroy but not Google.

Feel how ever you want about Google but let's at least be fair.

ErikAugust 8 hours ago 5 replies      
Project Zero is taking names lately. I wonder if other firms will "retaliate" with their own Project Zero-style security teams.
nunez 8 hours ago 2 replies      
I'm glad they aren't playing around with the 90 day limit.
lettersdigits 6 hours ago 1 reply      
> This bug is subject to a 90 day disclosure deadline. If 90 days elapsewithout a broadly available patch, then the bug report will automaticallybecome visible to the public.

Is this a common pattern in the bugs world ? publicizing a critical bug after 90 days of no response ?

ipsin 7 hours ago 0 replies      
The bug doesn't make it clear; was this issue reported to Microsoft?

I wasn't sure if I missed a sign of notification, or if vendors are automatically cc'd/whitelisted on restricted bugs for their products.

certifiedloud 8 hours ago 0 replies      
I guess when they say 90 days they really mean it.
rattray 8 hours ago 2 replies      
How is Microsoft's track record on security generally these days?
thehardsphere 9 hours ago 1 reply      
How often do these deadlines get missed?
Havoc 2 hours ago 0 replies      
As undemocratic-y as it sounds these big corps should really talk to each other more...
JepZ 7 hours ago 1 reply      
Is it normal that IE and Edge bugs are getting reported to the chromium bug tracker?
jwilk 3 hours ago 0 replies      
Please use the original title.
euyyn 7 hours ago 1 reply      
Can we have the title of the post conform more to that of the thing it links to?
plandis 6 hours ago 0 replies      
Was Microsoft even notified about this? I didn't see any indication on the linked page.
Two-part Rubik's algorithms nedbatchelder.com
62 points by mr_golyadkin  8 hours ago   15 comments top 10
patejam 7 hours ago 0 replies      
This is also how people can solve Rubik's Cubes blindfolded: use algorithms that only move a couple pieces without changing the rest of the state. It's suddenly way easier to keep track the state when only a few pieces are moving at a time.

When I was a speedcuber I could use three algorithms to solve a cube blindfolded after memorizing where each piece needed to go: one to flip two edges, one to rotate two corners, and one that switched two corners and two edges at the same time (T-perm for you cubers).

Then it was just 1. orient the edges and corners in a way that makes them easy to move around the cube and 2. move the pieces where they need to go.

This is a very rudimentary strategy, and there are MUCH faster ways to solve the cube, but this is all you need.

Orangeair 7 hours ago 0 replies      
It's worth noting that this is just a specific case of a commutator:


A commutator is any sequence of moves in the form of A B A' B', where A and B are sets of moves, and A' and B' are those sets of moves undone. So this example basically just restricts B to consist only of top-layer moves.

alex- 7 hours ago 1 reply      
I recently re-visited the rubiks cube as a holiday project.

It really is quite accessible now with online guides and videos. I think about an hour a day for 5 days took me from never having solved a cube to being able to solve any starting configuration in a little less than 3 minutes.

If like me you ever had a cube you never beat as a kid, it is definitely worth revisiting.

phkahler 4 hours ago 0 replies      
One thing I recently realized about the cube. In a simulation, or in reality, the configuration of the cube can be completely described by the orientation of the 20 movable pieces. The location of a piece is actually determined by it's orientation.

For example, if you wanted to make a 3d model you might make a bunch of little cubes each centered in their own object space and then translate them to their location in the cube. If you do that, you have to track the orientation AND location of each piece. However, if you center the entire cube at the origin and then place each piece in its place relative to that origin, all "moves" simply rotate a piece around some axis which both changes their orientation AND moves them relative to the cube center. As such, position is redundant information.

I'm not sure how relevant this is, but to me it seems to point to alternative ways of finding a solution via computer.

But this is probably very old news to people who study the cube.

blueblimp 5 hours ago 0 replies      
As others have pointed out, this is a special case of a commutator. I don't know if this case has a standard name, but elsewhere I've seen it called "U-process": https://www.quora.com/Can-a-Rubiks-cube-be-solved-without-it....

If you're solving using commutators now and are looking to upgrade to a faster method in the same spirit, check out the Heise method. It's also an intuitive method (no memorization required), which starts off with block-building and finishes using commutators. I made the transition from commutator-only to Heise and am enjoying it, and I'm still very far off the speed cap for Heise. (Its creator reports averaging ~30sec: http://twistypuzzles.com/~sandy/forum/viewtopic.php?p=45076&...)

taeric 6 hours ago 1 reply      
The book Winning Ways for Your Mathematical Plays[1] has three main algorithms that are in the vein of this basic idea. They were actually optimized for ease of remembering and executing on. With full documented solutions for moving specific cubes of the final layer. Really fun read.

[1] https://smile.amazon.com/Winning-Ways-Your-Mathematical-Play...

wbillingsley 3 hours ago 0 replies      
I set a Scala assignment last year that was implementing a "human" cube-solver (ie, write a cube solver that searches for these sorts of moves, and then uses them to solve the cube the way people are taught to)

Fun problem; terrible assignment. I had to scaffold it so much that I was essentially giving most of the solution.

uberstuber 5 hours ago 0 replies      
Ryan Heise has a nice guide to solving the cube without memorizing algorithms (using conjugates and commutators).


iamatworknow 5 hours ago 0 replies      
This looks very similar to the method I used back in high school, and the fastest I ever got with it was 66 seconds, which is abysmal by speed-cubing standards but it impressed my friends and family.
guipsp 7 hours ago 0 replies      
These are called "commutators". You can easily find a bunch just by looking up the word! :)
Show HN: Sedy, a GitHub Bot Bringing Linux Sed to Code Reviews marmelab.com
129 points by Kmaschta  12 hours ago   42 comments top 12
unholiness 11 hours ago 3 replies      
Cool! Looks like a genuinely useful tool, reducing some pretty common friction within the code review process.

Three features I'd want before using it:

1) Rather than triggering Sedy immediately on a reviewer comment, I'd like the trigger to be the original requester reacting to the comment with a thumbs-up. The requester knows what they're trying to say, and they should decide if the changes get made.

2) I wish there were an option to restrict it to comments for supported languages. Your examples are just changing markdown (not code), and I think rightfully so I can easily see this tool becoming a way for a senior dev reviewer to attempt to avoid the back-and-forth with a junior dev by just posting some complex code substitutions... substitutions which could easily screw things up.

3) sed replacement actually seems too powerful for this job. For instance, if I want to make a replacement like:

 s/**bold** thing/**bold thing**/
...I really don't want to try escaping that without feedback. I'd rather have direct string replacement without regex than the full power of sed. This probably goes against your design goals, but for me it would be much more useful.

c3RlcGhlbnI_ 37 minutes ago 0 replies      
How much of the power of sed does it bring?

I feel like other sed expressions might be even more useful in this format. For example:

 200i #TODO optimize this
will insert a comment before line 200 and:

 s/.*goto.*/cowsay \0/e T s%^%//% s%\n%\0//%g
will take every line that contains a goto and replace it with a commented out cowsay version of itself.

LukeShu 10 hours ago 2 replies      
I share with fiatjaf's sentiment; this is an amazingly cool piece of hackery (that will probably be very useful to many people), but I won't use it.

For those simple types of changes, I like to amend the original commit, rather than make a new one. Of course, I come from using `git send-email` to send patches to a mailing list, where you are expected to send "[PATCH v2]" after you get feedback.

TazeTSchnitzel 10 hours ago 1 reply      
I forget the exact circumstances, but I was once in a W3C IRC chatroom which had a bot that produced a transcript and obeyed sed commands. It's pretty amazing to be able to type s/their/they're/ and have it actually take effect.
fiatjaf 11 hours ago 1 reply      

I will not use this, but I can say this is an amazing piece of hackership.

jlv2 7 hours ago 2 replies      
"Linux sed"? There's no mention of Linux at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sed
jwilk 7 hours ago 1 reply      
> Since we need to accept the invitation on behalf of the Sedy bot, youll have to notify us about it. For the time being, we only accept notifications by postcard


willcodeforfoo 10 hours ago 0 replies      
`/s/foo/bar` syntax works in Slack as well!
Sir_Cmpwn 11 hours ago 1 reply      
Does s:/bin:/usr/bin:g work?
partycoder 8 hours ago 1 reply      
What I do to point out differences is to provide a comment with a code block with diff format.


-- old text

++ new text


Github will highlight that as a diff.

pvg 10 hours ago 1 reply      
In the first screenshot, how does the bot know which instance of 'products' to change? Also /s/themself/themselves for the second one although chances are Sedy can't edit screenshots.
k2xl 11 hours ago 1 reply      
I know in bitbucket and others have a nice feature that allows you to edit code inline on the web browser and commit the changes - wouldn't that be a safer approach than editing via commenting? I don't think it would take much more time either.

Maybe doing the reverse, if a change is made through inline edit automatically add a comment with the specific change made.

I just can foresee undesired consequences. Someone not escaping their sed correctly (I.e. they try to replace a string with a slash or apostrophe)

A cartoon intro to WebAssembly mozilla.org
181 points by happy-go-lucky  8 hours ago   57 comments top 10
coltonv 5 hours ago 9 replies      
I'm a bit lost on the appeal of webassembly. I can see why it's kinda cool to be able to ship a different language to browser and retain performance and bundle sizes, but the problem is I, and everyone else I know, has little to no interest writing C/C++/Rust in the browser.

Most of the people I know want to write Java/Python/Ruby/Elixir/Scala/C#/Clojure in the browser: high level scripting/VM based langauges which require no memory management and have high level features and data structures. As far as I can tell, these can't target WebAssembly since they don't target LLVM (and you certainly will never be able to compile a language like Ruby to LLVM)

I'd love to hear some of you guys talk about what uses you have for Webassembly and what exciting things it will let you do.

nabla9 5 hours ago 0 replies      
History keeps repeating itself. Alan Kay's idea was that objects are moved around. You don't request a data structure like html, you request an object and it runs in the new system.

1) Oberon had an idea of 'slim binaries' portable binaries that can be compiled into object code in a single pass. Loading would be almost as fast loading a file. Slim binaries were designed to be slim and fast.

2) Then came java, jvm and java applets People said that jvm is the plaform. Java will be is just one language using that platform. Compiled java objects were not so slim and fast to recompile :(

3) JavaScript became de facto portable platform but they are not binary. Browser became the client virtual machine.

4) Now we have WebAssembly. Lets' hope that WebAssemply is actually slim and fast representation like slim binaries.

jrvidal 7 hours ago 1 reply      
Maybe the most interesting bit (in part 6/6): Browser Preview is over, they can start shipping it!


EdSharkey 6 hours ago 5 replies      
This web assembly scheme saddens me a bit. I wish the scripting line would not be crossed and we could stick to JIT-compiled JS or even dialects that can execute closer to the metal (like asm.js). It's just so nice to be able to have all the codes - I've found that even the most aggressively minified uber-scripts can be pretty printed and studied.

All the arguments in favor about saving bytes and offline compiling would seem like only short term gains since network, cpu's, and memory sizes are going to continue to improve.

And, it's certainly not Flash or Java Applets all over again since there are multiple competent vendors in the mix. Yet, I fear a new wave of unconstrained, impenetrable code schlock will flow from content creators once this thing hits the mainstream.

danellis 6 hours ago 1 reply      
> With this improved performance, JavaScript started being used for things no one ever expected it to be used for, like server-side programming

Oh, how quickly we forget.

paxcoder 4 hours ago 1 reply      
>Some applications of WebAssembly may be held up until [direct access to DOM] is resolved."

I don't know what number crunching web applications the vendors are thinking of. I want wasm for client-side web programming without JS.

flaviuspopan 6 hours ago 1 reply      
Awesome intro, that was pretty easy to follow :)

Just a few small typos to point out:


"Executing" section - "...know how to write code so that they compiler can type specialize it" - the compiler instead of they compiler

"Conclusion" section - "etching WebAssembly takes less time because it is more compact than JavaScript, even when compressed" - missing the f in fetching

vvanders 6 hours ago 0 replies      
Article misses one of the big marks as to why WebASM could be faster. Manual memory management allows for much better cache utilization which is usually where managed languages spend most of their time vs native languages.
teabee89 6 hours ago 1 reply      
I am so afraid that WebAssembly will make too many assumptions that will prevent Go from targeting it as a platform.
SpaceX to Send Privately Crewed Dragon Spacecraft Beyond the Moon Next Year spacex.com
1661 points by runesoerensen  1 day ago   465 comments top 50
ChuckMcM 1 day ago 10 replies      
Wow. This sends so many thoughts cascading through my head that I'm dizzy.

Some things to consider, China has been working up to getting a space capability to send people to the Moon with the full backing of the government funding, by 2035[1]. They started in 2003. SpaceX was founded in 2002 and they are saying they will fly someone around the moon next year? Dragon has the deltaV to land on the moon (not sure if it has enough to get off again though) and SpaceX certainly has the expertise in building spacecraft that land.

The next person to take a picture of the Earth from moon may not be on a government funded mission. That one really blows my mind. For so long it was only countries that could do something like that, now it is nearly within reach of individuals.

The UN has treaties about claiming (or not) the moon by a nation state, but there isn't anything about a privately funded and established outpost that wants to declare independence. All this time I imagined that some country would establish a base there, and grudgingly offer up some space for non-state use, and now there is this possibility of a private facility that states have to ask permission to visit? That is priceless.

[1] http://blogs.wsj.com/chinarealtime/2016/04/29/man-on-the-moo...

ironchief 1 day ago 2 replies      
It is very likely Steve Jurveston.

1. In a comment about the announcement alluded to it as a "recurring dream"[1]

2. 5 years ago, described a moon orbit as "when I plan to fly in space. I have two specific missions in mind"[2]

3. SpaceX Board Member and investor

4. Has the money

5. Knows Elon "Mr Musk declined to reveal their identities, only saying that they knew each other"[3]

6. Is "nobody from Hollywood"

7. Liked this comment on his FB wall "Can I tag along?!? Ahhhhh!!!"[4]





runesoerensen 1 day ago 9 replies      
> We are excited to announce that SpaceX has been approached to fly two private citizens on a trip around the moon late next year. They have already paid a significant deposit to do a moon mission.

Can't wait to hear who booked this trip! Definitely one of the coolest ways to spend a lot of superfluous money :)

grouplinkdave 1 day ago 0 replies      
About 20 years ago as a young engineer I was given the opportunity to propose some solutions to NASA, and was invited to the Kennedy Space Centers LCC for the presentation. Prior to meeting with the exec team at the LCC they took me on a tour of the VAB, where I saw all the operations and was allowed to take digital images of some of the vehicle assembly and maintenance operations to demonstrate possible improvements. Such great energy at the whole KSC. What an honor to be there to feel that passion and gratitude!

Last month I was again at the KSC and LCC as a tourist, and the energy was just a minute fraction of what I'd seen 20 years before. We need this kind of vision [from SpaceX and others, e.g., like this other NASA-based article today with the young engineer comments, who did the hydroponics in microgravity at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13743196 ] to push science and technology beyond the video game and entertainment markets. Congratulations to SpaceX, the microgravity hydroponics engineer, and the others with vision who are once-again elevating the bright eyes of brilliant youth, scientists and engineers.

davidklemke 1 day ago 2 replies      
Absolutely incredible. This will be the furthest that humanity has journeyed away from Earth in a very long time.

However it is worth noting that there hasn't been a single crewed Dragon flight yet. There are demonstator flights scheduled for this year though with the first NASA crewed mission slated for May 2018. That's an incredibly aggressive timeline but if anyone can achieve it, SpaceX can.

The long duration flight beyond the moon will be a fantastic proving ground, however.

suprgeek 1 day ago 3 replies      
While this feat depends on hitting a lot of intermediate milestones - Falcon Heavy Test, Crew Dragon Unmanned to ISS, Crew Dragon manned to ISS, etc, there is no "show-stopper" that is apparent right now.

I like how they have avoided committing to the much harder "landing on the Moon and then return" scenario.

hackuser 1 day ago 2 replies      
Note that NASA, I believe at Trump's urging, recently said they would try to place humans on the first flight of the Space Launch System (the new heavy lift rocket) - i.e., no unmanned testing first.


Is Musk still maintaining a relationship with Trump? When Uber founder Travis Kalanick left Trump's business council, Musk was still on it AFAIK. I wonder if Musk is doing this or announcing it for related reasons. Certainly Trump has a history, even in his short tenure, of pressuring businesses into announcements that suit his agenda. And the announcement seems to fit Trump's pattern: Impossible, brazen bravado. (Musk gives the impossible some credibility, but that's what is meant by lending someone your credibility.)

It's speculative, but it's also sad and a bad sign when we must look for government interference in the free market at this level, to provide propaganda for the President.

Gravityloss 1 day ago 2 replies      
I find this schedule very very unlikely. No humans have flown in the Dragon at all yet. Also none on any of SpaceX:s rockets. There have been lots of launch and pad failures.

I'm cheering for SpaceX for doing more towards spacefaring, but I'm very skeptical and think this will, at least, end up being negative PR to them, and, at worst, a lot more.

jansen 1 day ago 7 replies      
A quote from an article on the Verge says "Musk declined to comment on the exact cost of the trip, but said it was comparable or a little more than the cost of a crewed mission to the International Space Station."

Does anyone have a rough estimate how much a manned mission to the ISS currently costs?

ChrisBland 1 day ago 0 replies      
Best news I've heard today, if I had that much $ I too would want to do something that only a handful of humans have ever experienced. If Elon reads this I will give you everything in my bank account and everything I will earn in the next 5 years to orbit the earth. It has been a dream of mine and seeing the privatization of space flight gets me so excited for the future. Sucks to be my kids as I hope I get to blow their inheritance on a trip to the moon.
ktta 1 day ago 5 replies      
I wonder if it is going to be only two people who are going to go. Will they add more people if they come forward with significant amount of money too?

Seems to me like the cost of taking in another person will be negligible in comparison to the funding they could contribute. This is literally a one-in-a-lifetime experience

dalbasal 1 day ago 1 reply      
I love that a moon mission is a milestone en route to SpaceX' moonshot, not the moonshot itself. We need new idioms for these people.
avmich 1 day ago 1 reply      
> "Falcon Heavy is due to launch its first test flight this summer and, once successful, will be the most powerful vehicle to reach orbit after the Saturn V moon rocket."

SpaceX at its usual :) . By which criteria Energiya is less powerful vehicle to reach orbit than Falcon Heavy?

rodionos 1 day ago 3 replies      
Shouldn't they consider a staged approach, not unlike FDA trials. Start with a Laika dog, proceed with a chimp, as all other space programs have done in the past?

Also, if this succeeds, what happens to Google's moonshot projects? Is rebranding in the works?

joshuakcockrell 23 hours ago 0 replies      
> This presents an opportunity for humans to return to deep space for the first time in 45 years and they will travel faster and further into the Solar System than any before them.

Shocking that it's been this long. There is an entire generation that hasn't seen man make it into deep space.

DanielBMarkham 1 day ago 1 reply      
Huge SpaceX fan here, but I've heard from various news sources that the company is famous for aggressively posting dates and then slowly letting them slide. Might that be the case here? (Still, even if it's 2 or 3 years, wow!)
kbenson 8 hours ago 0 replies      
So, what happens when you take a moon hoaxer, and I mean a really ardent believer, and fly them around the moon? Presumably they've already seen much of the evidence we've been there multiple times before and discounted it in lieu of some more more fanciful (in our eyes) explanation. Does that shatter when you're looking at the moon through a porthole, or do you explain it away somehow?

I find it interesting, because usually conspiracy theorists can't really be presented with enough hard evidence to replicate the scenario in question.

_ph_ 1 day ago 0 replies      
This is exciting news. Some time ago, looking at the F9 Heavy, it seemed to me that SpaceX could fly to the moon with it anytime they decided to. Of course their focus is the Mars. But in the day and age of multi-billionaires and the commercial availability of space flights via SpaceX, this makes absolutely sense. Private funding could push space flights much quicker ahead.
clebio 1 day ago 4 replies      
> ... two private citizens ... have already paid a significant deposit to do a moon mission. Like the Apollo astronauts before them, these individuals will travel into space carrying the hopes and dreams of all humankind ...

Except that these two private citizens are presumably absurdly wealthy. Whereas the nationalize space program which brought forth the Apollo mission gave all private citizens, as well as schoolchildren for generations, hope and aspirational outlooks.

Whereas the current national situation in the US, with respect to primary-school education and government-supported science is quite dire. So things are not at all hopeful right now, and many of us suffer nightmares of violence and deportation.

So, there's that.

gigatexal 1 day ago 6 replies      
Finally the tin-foil hats can be satiated when these tourists see the 50-ish year old flag on the moon.
ChrisjayHenn 14 hours ago 1 reply      
So it seems the big challenge with landing and taking off from the moon is carrying that much fuel. A robotic module on the moon that converts water, carbon and sunlight to rocket fuel should solve that problem.

Is anyone else imagining the mission is going to discretely drop such a module when it's in the moon's shadow or do I just have an overactive imagination?

tatoalo 14 hours ago 0 replies      
I think that, as Elon pointed out, it can really be an interesting source of income to deploy entirely on the "Mars Project".

I really root for 'em even though I know that China has started working on a similar business-model-trip back in '03 and they still haven't made any public announcement or published a precise launch year...

johngalt 1 day ago 0 replies      
Next year seems extremely ambitious. Wouldn't humans next year, mean non-crewed test flight this year?
jaddood 14 hours ago 0 replies      
So basically it's the government using private institutions for space too now. Welcome! (Sarcastic)
Mendenhall 23 hours ago 1 reply      
I want to know what the insurance company of the private citizens says to this.
c-slice 1 day ago 2 replies      
I wonder what NASA is thinking about this? The NASA Commercial Crew program which helped fund the development of the Dragon was funded for manned flight to the ISS. I'm curious if they see this as part of the project scope?
maverick_iceman 20 hours ago 0 replies      
No one would be happier than me if they pull this off. However, I think the timeline is super ambitious. They never had to deal with human passengers till now, meaning they have to develop all that skill set in 1.5 years. Even with significant help from NASA/Russia this sounds like an extremely tall order to me.
ogezi 1 day ago 2 replies      
I wonder who the people going on this trip are. Are they billionaires, a rich couple planning a honeymoon. You'd have to be rich to do this right? I also wonder which kind of insurance both Spacex and the individuals have for this.

It's amazing that private companies are now doing things that were previously only one by governments and nations.

I don't know how this will work out but congratulations to Musk, Spacex and NASA.

rbanffy 14 hours ago 0 replies      
Wasn't being able to support and protect the crew beyond LEO the "killer feature" of the Orion?

If you can do it with a Dragon, what niche is Orion left with?

iklos55 1 day ago 0 replies      
Finally. I am so so hyped for SpaceX's development. Hopefully they can stay afloat to experience stability and a stage where they can sit on funding and provide credit for fusion and/or antimatter research. Glad they're here to give us a glimpse into the future of space travel.
gydfi 1 day ago 1 reply      
Just looking up records: the furthest anyone has ever been from Earth is Apollo 13 who passed 158 miles above the lunar surface.

I imagine that would be a pretty easy record to break, if you're doing a translunar flight anyway then getting a bit higher doesn't take much more energy (source: played a lot of Kerbal).

On the other hand the passengers might prefer a close-up view of the Moon to a record.

Animats 1 day ago 0 replies      
So when will they launch a Falcon Heavy with a Dragon, unmanned? They've got to try that first. Will the initial Falcon Heavy test flight carry a Dragon spacecraft?
clock_tower 1 day ago 1 reply      
Which would be more expensive: a personal SpaceX flight to the Moon, or personally funding a high-speed rail line from Seattle to Vancouver?
mLuby 1 day ago 0 replies      
Count on SpaceX to renew faith in humanity. ^_^
jbmorgado 12 hours ago 0 replies      
Well in a way these are fantastic news. But on the other side they are totally reckless news.

What if the Sun has a SEP event during that period? Everyone on board will die in the period from hours to days from exposure to radiation.

We presently have absolutely no knowledge on how to predict that this will happen or to protect a ship in case it happens.

The Moon missions where done before we knew of the existence of SEPs and fortunately we were lucky... but we are not supposed to just rely on luck now that we know they exist.

skosuri 1 day ago 2 replies      
I wonder who the two people are.
yCloser 17 hours ago 0 replies      
not landing

that's cool, but kerbal-easy

danmoreno 1 day ago 2 replies      
zuck and priscilla?
robtaylor 1 day ago 0 replies      
...and back!
CodeSheikh 1 day ago 0 replies      
Mission name Apollo-X. Anyone?
biosoup 1 day ago 3 replies      
I'm gonna make my tip, given Elon's history:

Sergey Brin and Larry Page

Two of his freind rich enough, geeky enough, to go first.

_pmf_ 17 hours ago 0 replies      
"Next Year" in Musk time; that's about 2022.
jlebrech 17 hours ago 0 replies      
the should send mining robots to build a base unmanned first.
Shivetya 13 hours ago 0 replies      
so much opportunity for celebration and at the same so much opportunity to destroy the company. hope they do a few dry runs that we get to watch because while this could be a publicity event of incredible benefit it can just as easily backfire
vanattab 23 hours ago 0 replies      
Trumps going to space!
soheil 1 day ago 2 replies      
Who are the two "private citizens"? Seems to be mere urge of "universal human exploration" to go around the moon and not landing on it, etc. isn't doing much exploring, but rather taking a lot of risk on a manned spacecraft that has never been tested with people.
skizm 1 day ago 3 replies      
Is it still a thing, where going to space makes you infertile due to radiation? I feel like I remember basically once you go into space (male or female) kids are off the table afterwards unless you have frozen your sperm or eggs beforehand. Not sure if that was solved at some point or not.
Udik 1 day ago 5 replies      
So, hmm, we wants to send people around the moon, a year and a half from now, with a rocket he never tested and with a capsule that never flew?I expect half of the directors of SpaceX to resign in the next two days...
stevespang 22 hours ago 0 replies      
Do you see the comments on one site: "about 2 rich fat cats all ego-ed out who paid Space X tens of millions, just smiling from ear to ear and gloating that the whole world is watching them make history, and the rest of us "lowlanders" have to watch them with envy - - only to have it by mere chance turn into a Roman spectacle - - - - of the whole world watching as they get bar-be-qued in space, never to see earth again.

A massive crowd will be assembled to attempt a Guinness book of world records, to moon the stars with bare asses all in unison in a soccer stadium just as they blast off into space, yelling out like the Romans did at the coliseum: "We salute you those who are about to DIE !" then post it on YouTube !

Qualities that I believe make the most difference in programmers productivity antirez.com
697 points by sathis  14 hours ago   287 comments top 72
simonw 13 hours ago 13 replies      
In this thread: mostly people responding to the headline, not the actual content of the article.

There's some fantastic stuff in here about how great design is the key to increased productivity. For example:

"It is very important for a designer to recognize all the parts of a design that are not easy wins, that is, there is no proportionality between the effort and the advantages. A project that is executed in order to maximize the output, is going to focus exactly on the aspects that matter and that can be implemented in a reasonable amount of time. For example when designing Disque, a message broker, at some point I realized that by providing just best-effort ordering for the messages, all the other aspects of the project could be substantially improved: availability, query language and clients interaction, simplicity and performances."

redis itself is a masterpiece of pragmatic design - the feature set is brilliantly selected to make the most of what you can do with shared data structures exposed over a network. Let's talk about that.

struppi 13 hours ago 3 replies      
Everything from the original post sounds reasonable, you should absolutely read it. Just some random thoughts to add to it:

* For most of my past clients, the skill / output of their programmers was not the bottleneck, even though they thought so. As long as something is not a bottleneck, there's not point in trying too hard to optimize it (since you can get better ROI somewhere else).

* Software is a team effort. Improving how the team works together / how work flows through the system probably has a bigger impact than raw programmer output (unless you are already very good at that).

* Improving the quality of your software (minimizing defects and rework) will improve the output of everyone in the team, regardless of how good they are.

* I have heard of cases where removing the "top programmer" from a team made the whole team more productive, even though an important person was missing. I don't have data to back that up, though.

Update: Thinking more about this... I have a talk called "Your Company Will Never be Agile", where I talk about how most companies actively prevent their people from doing a good job (by having policies, procedures and a company structure that is not suitable for empowered teams). And then, those same companies complain that they cannot get good people and how all the hip companies can get the 10x programmers that "we cannot hire".

I don't have an English recording of the talk, but I started a series of blog posts about it: http://devteams.at/your_company_will_never_be_agile_intro . I should maybe finish it some day ;)

omnimike 1 hour ago 1 reply      
While I completely agree that some programmers can be 10x more productive than other ones, I think it's far more common to see programmers who LOOK 10x more productive than others. It's very hard to compare people who have different problems to solve. Solving 90% of the problem is not the same as solving 100% of the problem, and sometimes that 10% really is worth the effort.

I've seen cases where one ostensibly 10x developer comes in and solves 90% (the easy parts) of a problem. Management love him. Then he moves on to other projects and leaves a team of "1x developers" to deal with the 10% (which management still insist on having). This team now have to re-write everything this superstar did from the ground up without taking shortcuts this time. The time it takes makes them all look like 0.1x developers.

Scarblac 13 hours ago 4 replies      
This bit articulates what I consider to be the main advantage of experience in programmers:

> Often complexity is generated when there is no willingness to recognized that a non fundamental goal of a project is accounting for a very large amount of design complexity, or is making another more important goal very hard to reach, because there is a design tension among a fundamental feature and a non fundamental one.

It happens all the time that requirements are very complex. Junior programmers will fail to implement them. Better programmers will manage to implement them, but it'll take too much time to develop and especially to maintain their solution.

Experienced programmers recognize what's happening and have the personality to stand up the project leader and get a simplified version of the requirements accepted.

It's also why very large software projects fail, especially the type that is intended to save costs by replacing many different existing informal systems by a unified one. The requirements will be ridiculously complicated (have to do everything all the projects to be replaced do), and nobody in the software development part has the power to change the organisation first.

whatever_dude 12 hours ago 4 replies      
I started the week as an 1x programmer.

The lead on my current project micro manages every point of the code's architecture. I have no freedom to make any calls, even on legacy parts of the code that could be refactored to better fit new requirements. None of the other developers "own" anything so no one can make any calls. Anything takes a week or more to be discussed. Arbitrary non-obvious decisions have been made in the code base and it's up to you to figure them out. I am left fixing simple bugs and building things very slowly, treading very carefully rather than making it right. I am now a 0.8x programmer.

I look at my week's schedule. I see that I have a lot of meetings and checkups that, while important, are unrelated to my current project and will only take a chunk of my time and energy. I am now a 0.6x programmer.

I work in an open space office where terrible music is played through its sound system the whole day. I have a hard time focusing and staying focused. I am now a 0.4x programmer.


While I enjoyed the article, I think it overlooks the fact that a developer's efficiency is also often a factor of their environment (not just physical, but the project itself too). I've been 5x, I've been 0.1x, and the biggest contributing factor from project to project has been my environment. My experience and knowledge is also a factor, but this changed slowly, over time, while environment changes can mean I'll go from being super productive to very unproductive in a month. More managers and leads need to be aware of that.

scandox 13 hours ago 3 replies      
Taking myself as a 0.5x programmer, I have sadly encountered some 0.01x programmers. In fact it might be better to characterize them as -0.01x programmers, who I believe can work indefinitely without ever producing a working piece of software. Usually the best indicator of this is when the initial snaglist for a piece of work grows after the snags have been "completed". Then each round of fixes becomes a kind of Hydra and finally we have to give up cutting off heads and start over.

I resisted believing in this phenomenon for a long time, especially because I'm no great shakes myself. But in the end it could no longer be rationally denied.

latch 13 hours ago 7 replies      
I don't understand how anyone can say 10x programmers don't exist. There are programmers who DRAIN value from projects and companies. The most insidious I've dealt with are people who assure everyone their part is going to be done on time, but come the deadline, they have nothing.

I am today, a 10x better programmer than I was where I started. In terms of quality, complexity, efficiency, readability, maintainability, everything. I was paid too much when I started and/or not enough now!

Notch and Carmack are 1000x better game programmers than I am. Linus is a 1000x better file system and operating system programmer than me. Monty is a 1000x better database programmer than I am. DHH can build a website at least 10x faster than me and do it in a way that would contribute 100x more to the community than I could.

If you discard people with decades of experience. If you discard people who have specialized. If you discard the many geniuses in our field. And then if you start to make excuses at the other end, and if you narrow it to a specific set of tasks, with a specific set of complexity, then maybe there isn't a huge gap. But even then, I feel that if you apply yourself to that task for a decade or two, you'll find that you're a 10x better programmer than you used to be.

kator 13 hours ago 0 replies      
I have a friend who is an amazing musician, fairly successful and quite inspiring. He's no Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart and he knows it. Everyone can accept that fact.

Too many people approach "programming" like it is a simple execution of ideas. It's more art than execution and I've been inspired by the creation of many amazing programmers in my long career. And in 35 years of developing technology to solve real-world problems I've managed to have a couple nice ideas that inspired others.

To me coding is a creative process, often I will code for many hours straight without a break, I will "wake up" afterwards like I was in some sort of trance. My wife laughing at me as I realize it's dark outside, not because it's still morning, but because the day disappeared and its night time again. For me coding is a form of meditation, it's pure thought and comes from somewhere outside of my body out my fingertips like lighting into the keyboard. It's a gentle dance with a computer to dialog with it about a problem I'm trying to solve and ways it can help me or many of its friends can help me.

If you don't feel this way about coding, maybe something else is in your future, but for me coding saved my life and without it my soul would be trapped in a metal box without any way to express itself.

Am I a 10x coder, I don't know, I don't care. What I know is I am inspired by amazing coders and sometimes when I'm really lucky I inspire someone.

EDIT: PS: Antirez has inspired me every time I've looked at his creations. I wish some day others could feel that way about my work.

skywhopper 12 hours ago 1 reply      
Speaking from my own experience, the truly amazing ultra-productive programmers often come with the caveat that they don't spend much if any time mentoring, explaining, or sharing how they work and why. They can produce a patch in two minutes, or interactively fix up some corrupted data in a few seconds. But spending the time to demonstrate to everyone else how they did it so that the other members of the team could learn their own product better would take a lot more of their time. They're always the ones to fix the unexpected problems, because they can figure it out and fix it before anyone else can even get a handle on what's wrong. That's great in the moment of crisis, but in the long run it can be devestatingly counterproductive.

So whether intentionally, tempermentally, just due to the constant demand for their services, or just because it's tautological, the 10x programmers don't actually contribute back to their team's knowledge, which means the rest of the team stays at 1x, and whent he 10x programmer moves on to another project or company, the rest of the team flounders around while they have to figure out all the things the 10x programmer never bothered to share.

dlwj 1 hour ago 0 replies      
Somewhat related, there's a very good post here: http://lesswrong.com/lw/l8/conjuring_an_evolution_to_serve_y...

It's about the unintended side effects of trying to be a 'Natural Selector'. One example is selecting individual hens on egg output to create a breed of high-egg producers. The result was mean chickens which had gains b/c they were very aggressive. The breed needed to have their beaks clipped otherwise they would kill each other. When productive groups rather than productive individuals were selected though, they got the desired effect. (Though in another example I can imagine selecting for mean group behavior)

Another example was trying to selectively evolve animals that would self-limit reproduction. (to avoid overpopulation and resource over-consumption) The end result was selecting for cannibalism.

In organizations, the equivalent of propagating a feature are the hiring stage and the promotion stage. Whatever you hire for, or promote for, will be the trait that's optimized. Whatever the side effects may be... (e.g. Enron)

DoubleGlazing 13 hours ago 5 replies      
I've worked with people who could be classed as almost a 10x programmer.

Their code worked, but it was also incomprehensible to everyone else on the team.

I have found that high-speed programmers tend to develop a very personalised workflow style. They do things their way, they code their way and forget that other people may have to maintain that code.

gator-io 1 hour ago 0 replies      
From what I've seen from working on two projects with more than 100 engineers is that they break down into these categories:

20% - Not productive. They can't get their tasks done, and after awhile, no one even expects them to. They get routed around.65% - Neutral. The quality problems and technical debt they incur matches their productive work.12% - Net negative. They introduce hard to fix bugs and technical debt beyond their productivity.3% - Gods. They do almost all the productive work. Without these types of people, no large project would ever get done.

jasode 13 hours ago 1 reply      
>The programming community is extremely polarized about the existence or not of such a beast

If we go meta and generalize the disagreement, the skepticism about "10X" is the same as the rejection of other labels such as "ninja" and "rockstar".[1] For some, the idea of categorizing a subset of programmers with a grandiose label is psychologically distasteful. It doesn't matter what the label is; any label that attempts to stratify programmers is a "myth".

As for "10x" specifically, I'll repeat what I've written before...

To make peace with the "10x" label, I suggest people just think of it as a rhetorical figure-of-speech instead of a rigorous mathematical term. We don't get hung up when people say "Star Wars IV was 10 times better than Phantom Menace" or "I'm not even 1/2 the football player I used to be."

Even if people were to use a new term such as "3-Sigma Programmer"[2] instead of "10X Programmer", the ensuing debates would still be the same.

E.g. "Some people say 3- programmers write string parsing loops that are better in speed and quality than 99.7% of the other loops but that 3-standard-deviations-above-the-mean is a myth... etc"

The argument pattern would be the same: take a label, any label, hyperfocus on some literal meaning to the exclusion of all other colloquial usage, and debate why that mathematical interpretation fails in the real world.

tldr: "10x" in discussions is more of an informal ranking of programmer ability and not a rigorous mathematical measurement of output.



tinco 13 hours ago 0 replies      
I think the phenomenon of the 10x programmer does have analogues in physical work. I feel a big part of this is having the ambition to absorb the entire problem domain. A 10x programmer does not work on just one part of a problem, they work on the entire product, each subproblem having a solution that simply flows from the constraints of the entire system. It's this full comprehension that allows the programmer to work without costly analyzing pauses, which I bet is the root cause of the delays associated with the 'regular' programmer.

I think I experience this in my hobby projects, when I fully own the project even when it is fairly complex, every time I spend an hour or two on an evening I pump out a few features that on a big team project would feel like they could've cost weeks.

The physical analogue I offer which might be a little far fetched is the construction worker. I have been renovating a house, doing demolition, basic construction, electrical, plumbing, and hopefully in the future finishing of the house. I'm a total novice, so obviously it's going slow, but eventually I will have constructed (most of) an entire house. Because I do everything, there is little to no overhead (besides me having to learn everything) when switching between tasks, I own all of the project. I bet that someone who solo-renovates houses as a full time job is ridiculously productive, much more so than a general contractor managing a team of subcontractors.

Anyway, obviously this is all just hypothesizing based on anecdotes.

pjc50 14 hours ago 2 replies      
10x what, though? No 10x engineer would accept a unitless quantity from uncalibrated measurements of terrible accuracy.

Yes, it's obvious that some people are getting a lot more done, but it's very hard to quantify and vulnerable to social engineering. It can be hard to spot quieter people working effectively, and it's really hard to quantify those who spend their time helping others or improving team effectiveness or business communication.

thehardsphere 14 hours ago 1 reply      
I thought the research that produced the legend of the 10x programmer showed that he was 10x better than the worst programmers who were still good enough to be employed, and only ~2.5x better than the "average" programmer.
sklivvz1971 13 hours ago 0 replies      
I absolutely loved this article. Don't get hung up on the "10x", read it as "good". All the characteristics Salvatore describes are the characteristics of every good developer I know, and that every developer should strive for.They make you a better artisan, but also increase your productivity. Who cares if it's 10x, 100x or 2.5x? The important bit is growing to your personal full potential.

One thing that it's missing from the post is a bit of focus on how good developers (and indeed good leaders) concentrate on maximizing their impact. Not only you want to be fast and reasonably accurate, but also make what you do matter. Sometimes shaving down compilation time by a couple of minutes will save each developer in the team two minutes multiple times a day for years, for example. Not all productivity wins are obvious.

kelvin0 4 hours ago 0 replies      
It seems to me a few people fit their jobs/environment others don't. The few who fit are productive, those who aren't where they are supposed to be are not. We should be discussing how to help people learn what environment/job works for them and empowering them, instead of trying to focus on the mythical 10x programmer.Don't get me wrong some programmers are very talented (and thus more productive), but I think this is due in great part to their ability to add value in a particular setting.

A 10x games programmer in a small studio could easily become a 0.1x web dev in a big web dev team.

dzink 4 hours ago 0 replies      
There are so many factors at play in team and client environments, so the best benchmark to use is your own productivity as a programmer.

1. Solving problems for the Nth time instead of the first leads to substantial gains in productivity, easily 10X gains on your first attempt.

2. Architectural decisions add another multiplier on the above: picking the wrong database type, structuring and reorganising your models, spending time to design ahead vs coding right away, all can /10 or 10X your project easily from fixes and re-dos alone - combine both 1 and 2, and you have potential 100X gains.

3. Risk-distributing the project work: eliminating the worst 5% as the author says, and/or writing the most complex parts first to reduce risk of massive rewrites in case something doesn't meet expectations in its most critical functionality.

4. Having competent business requirements providers who won't move the ground beneath your feet. You can be 10X or 100X more productive when writing new code, and that much slower when rewriting someone else's bad decisions. It's no different than trying to build a skyscraper on foundations built for a garage.

Stack the above as A x B x C x D and you can see why you might be able to beat your past self 10X or 100X and more between projects. Having teammates who can beat you is even better if you can learn from them and accelerate your own progress by skipping time consuming mistakes.

chadcmulligan 13 hours ago 1 reply      
I'd argue that it's greater than that these days, many programmers really just can't do what a lot of good programmers can do. Even if they're given all the time in the world they'll just never get a result. So whats that make them infinityX programmers?
codr4life 11 hours ago 1 reply      
"When the task at hand is much more rigid, with specific guidelines about what tools to use and how to implement things, the ability of a 10x programmer to perform a lot of work in less time is weakened: it can still exploit local design possibilities to do a much better work, but cannot change in more profound ways the path used to reach the goal, that may include, possibly, even eliminating part of the specification completely from the project, so that the goal to be reached looks almost the same but the efforts to reach it are reduced by a big factor."

This is one of the reason working in software sucks so badly these days. You'll inevitably be forced to work with lesser tools in more ceremonial ways, which takes away most of the leverage from experience and skill; effectively dragging everyone down to the lowest common denominator where everything is done according to some stupid, over engineered specification.

And one of the beefs people seem to have when I share my code publicly. Cutting corners and side-stepping complexity is where coding turns to art for me, where the fun begins; which means that many of my programs look like toys in comparison to "serious" software. Yet they still manage to get the job done for less effort, and a closer look reveals that the simplicity is carefully engineered. I just don't have much time or patience for ceremonies these days.

laythea 2 hours ago 0 replies      
"Sometimes in order to gain focus, extreme measures are needed. For instance I only read emails from time to time and do not reply to most of them."

This is far too extreme and turns you into a counterproductive team member. Like everything in life, a balance demands to be struck.

erikbye 14 hours ago 2 replies      
All programmers have different output. How is it even a debate? Some people are more productive than others. Just like one novelist takes 10 years to finish his novel another writes 2 every year.
jonpress 11 hours ago 1 reply      
The programmer is only as good as his manager. If a 10x programmer is working under the leadership of a 1x programmer, he will probaby turn into a 0.5x (due to lost motivation).A 10x programmer in a decision-making position will actually bring up the output of all other programmers.In reality, a 10x programmer doesn't have to be fast at programming themselves, they just have to be able to foster good habits which make everyone else faster.That's why it's dangerous to promote 'fast programmers' to leadership positions. Fast doesn't mean good - In fact, most of the time, 'fast' is bad/suboptimal (especially when it comes to design decisions).
beat 10 hours ago 1 reply      
You forgot one... sacrificing the efficiency of others to gain multipliers. By undermining team communication, future maintainability, etc, the 10x can appear much faster. This speed is gained not by truly being more efficient, but rather by the coding equivalent of maxing out your credit cards and mooching off your friends.

It looks good at the present, but the team pays for it in the long run - long after Mr 10x (it's always a guy, right?) gets fed up with the process bloat and criticism and whining and leaves for greener pastures.

I've cleaned up after 10x programmers.

SimonPStevens 13 hours ago 0 replies      
The whole 10x programmer thing is just interpreted wrong. The original statement was that the best are 10 times better than the worst.

I've certainly worked alongside programmers who's output is so bad that I would consider myself both 10 times better and 10 times faster. And I wouldn't even consider myself a top teir programmer. They are often people who's contributions to the project are net negative in that they actually require additional work from someone else to go clean up their mess afterwards.

Stop imaging a mythical coder who is 10 times better than everyone else, and instead think of the worst coder you've ever worked with who is 10x worse than everyone else. There is your 10x'er. We are nearly all 10x'ers when compared to the bottom few percent.

apeace 8 hours ago 0 replies      
Off-topic, but I know that Antirez has mentioned in the past he is always working on his English grammar.

> Surprisingly the ability to use basic imperative programming constructs very efficiently in order to implement something is, in my experience, not as widespread as one may think.

Those words are spun better than I could do, and I'm a native English speaker. Bravo!

Maybe something missing from the list is hard work and long-term dedication ;)

GedByrne 13 hours ago 0 replies      
I think the significantly better performer is something we see in all areas like sport, music and craft.

I think Anders Ericsson does a good job of explaining the phenomenon in his book Peak: http://uk.businessinsider.com/anders-ericsson-how-to-become-...

What we should be doing is looking to create companies that can allow workers to reach and sustain peak performance in all areas, not just coding.

merb 11 hours ago 1 reply      
I like the article in general, however sometimes i think that an ideal solution in terms of design sometimes can't exist, I mean a program mostly grows after usage and gets many changes over time. sometimes something which was quite good, is now rusty and bad.

I mean at the moment I'm actually changing my code that was simple at first, but over time more and more things were added and it started to complex.The thing I'm doing right now is getting rid of the complexity to add another future.Well mostly I think a big problem is that many people actually think about the design too much, since the design of a program will eventuelly be changed anyway. What worked for me was design something that works in most cases and grow that path or throw it away if it sucks.

btw. I love what antirez did and does for the community of programmers.

I always use a redis client to teach people more about network programming in java. It's a extremly simple, but still powerful command set/protocol. I hope he can keep up his work.

tluyben2 13 hours ago 0 replies      
Antirez is a 10+x programmer in most peoples' definitions. Writing nice to read code fast. So it is good to read this from him but then again he always appears quite humble.
spenrose 11 hours ago 0 replies      
Two classics on design to flesh out Antirez' thoughts:

Parnas On the Criteria To Be Used in Decomposing Systems into Modules https://www.cs.umd.edu/class/spring2003/cmsc838p/Design/crit... [PDF]

Christopher Alexanders Notes on the Synthesis of Form http://www.hup.harvard.edu/catalog.php?isbn=9780674627512

Both get deep into how a design emerges from the relationships among what Antirez is calling "sub-tasks". Antirez refers briefly to these relationships in the "Design sacrifice section." Parnas and Alexander put them, correctly I believe, at the heart of the craft.

Parnas was a software engineering authority. Alexander went on to write A Pattern Language, from which the software community derived "design patterns" as a foundational idea.

random3 11 hours ago 0 replies      
When the overall quality / delivery metric of an individual / team tends to 0, then the ratio between a good (normal) programmer over that will tend to infinity.

Probably the biggest aspect not dealt with in these writings along with the discussion around it (is there or is there not such a beast) is bias.

For example, selection bias: e.g. my view over what was the best / worst programmer was much different when working in different teams. I found out there could be much worse than what I thought is the worse. Then I learned that there could be much worse... It's like a fractal :)As you notice these differences a 10x difference doesn't seem that crazy.It's really things that should take a few weeks, which in turn take months or years or never get done.

Also like any other optimization problem, optimizing software development is about hitting a moving target. When the team is balanced, it may be the process that will become a bottleneck, etc.

lojack 13 hours ago 0 replies      
I think this myth stems from a lack of understanding of what we consider to be "work". For example, one developer could crank out 10x as many features as their peers, but never consider deploying or maintaining. The reality is that they are making everyone else slightly less productive. Similarly, they could work on 1/10th of the features, but help their 10 peers become twice as effective. Taking this even further, there's developers who can complete 1/100th of the features as their peers, but help thousands of other developers become 5% more effective.

In my mind, the mythical 10x programmer is the person that can complete business objectives while helping make those around them more effective. This isn't actually a myth, and "10x" is a completely arbitrary number that doesn't mean anything. It might as well be 2x or 1.1x -- they all mean the same thing to me. They can do their work at 1x speed, a baseline set by the developer in question and not their peers, but they can simultaneously help others around them be more productive.

didymospl 11 hours ago 1 reply      
Even though I agree with all the points made by the author, the notion of 10x programmer reminds me of one-man army movies like Rambo and it's equally ridiculous. Software development is a collaborative effort, not a contest where whoever commits more LOC or finishes more tasks wins. It's not that hard to be 10 times more productive than anyone else if you built something from the scratch, possibly reinventing the wheel instead of using common libraries/frameworks, wrote no documentation and you're not really willing to share your knowledge with other developers. Sadly, this happens - see e.g. http://thedailywtf.com/articles/the-inner-json-effect[edit: added link]
z3t4 5 hours ago 2 replies      
Being able to see edge cases and bugs before they happen will kill your productivity. I think the hardest part is to ignore those and deliver. If no one uses the software, then no harm done, and if the software get popular you will hopefully get funds to pay back the tech debt.
dang 9 hours ago 0 replies      
Since people have been objecting to the title and objecting to objecting to the title, we replaced the title with a representative phrase from the article. Let's focus on the body now.
paulus_magnus2 8 hours ago 0 replies      
From experience, it comes down to luck, but in a sense luck = good preparation / pre-built components toolbox.

I can be 10x, even 100x when working on something I've already solved & have "big" set of components ready to plug in (with a little bit of tweaking). The more stuff you have, the "luckier" you are. It's also ability to spot patterns & good memory & being in a flow.

lordnacho 13 hours ago 0 replies      
Perhaps it's worth stressing organisational factors in productivity.

Often when you find someone who's really good at what they do, they're the type of person who loves their work, and they've managed to find employment in an environment that suits them. The two are of course mutually helpful.

Also keep in mind it can be very hard to find more than one space for such a person. It's like how certain soccer teams are built around a particular star player; everyone else plays to suit that guy, and it would be hard to fit a clone if you had one. Others may well be suited to a star role, but happen not to have landed the role. Watch the Tour de France to see what happens when the lieutenant steps up to the captaincy. I can often be dramatic.

stiff 13 hours ago 0 replies      
Kent Beck has an article that is a nice complement to this one:


pacoverdi 11 hours ago 0 replies      
This was a great read.

BTW I have always known that the 10x programmer exists.

A sufficient proof is that on good days (with proper motivation, concentration, no interruptions, enough coffee etc.) I'm 10x the programmer I am on bad days :)

ggoerlich 13 hours ago 0 replies      
It's like in driving - most people think they are above average, see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illusory_superiority
codr4life 11 hours ago 0 replies      
The part on perfectionism is also well worth repeating; pretending to be perfect, and/or bullying others into the same madness is a waste of energy and oxygen that could be better used to move forward.

"Perfectionism and fear of external judice insert a designing bias that will result in poor choices in order to refine a design only according to psychological or trivially measurable parameters, where things like robustness, simplicity, ability to deliver in time, are often never accounted for."

patsplat 10 hours ago 0 replies      
On a yearly task with little code reuse my productivity went from 3 weeks to 3 days the second time.

In another migration measured the time to cut and paste and concluded a day of grind was better than a week of scripting.

Many tasks have a thin path to completion surrounded by cliffs on either side. Experience teaches when to focus on the critical path only vs when to take a wider view.

There's easily a 10x productivity boost there.

thecourier 12 hours ago 0 replies      
"The number of hours spent writing code is irrelevant without looking at the quality of the time. Lack of focus can be generated by internal and external factors. Internal factors are procrastination, lack of interest in the project at hand (you cant be good doing things you do not love), lack of exercise / well-being, poor or little sleeping."

Get your ass up from the chair and go outside to exercise if you wanna reach Antirez levels of mastery

contingencies 14 hours ago 0 replies      
When considering the implementation of a new system, sometimes considering the relative value of the path is a better and more profound action than than taking it. Similarly, implementation of a system does not necessarily imply deep comprehension, correct or intuitive forward-looking design, composability, repurposability, security, or any other property.

In short, as the saying goes: Decisiveness is overrated.[0]

[0] https://github.com/globalcitizen/taoup

Chris2048 12 hours ago 0 replies      
There is no such thing as a "10x programmer", only "1/8 environments" i.e. teams/environments where the normal programmer is 1/8th as productive as industry norms, such that a mere 1.25x programmer is 10x productive.

..and an environment that fosters such low productivity norms, probably also gets it's developer productivity measure/metrics wrong as well, so you don't even need a 1.25x for the perception of a 10x...

hacknat 12 hours ago 0 replies      
The main difference I have noticed between programmers isn't how fast they get their projects done, it's the amount of technical debt they leave behind.
pweissbrod 13 hours ago 1 reply      
Provided your business will never need more than one and only one expert programmer who may not work in a team and this expert programmer will never leave your business and will always be trustworthy to do the right thing and they can support/maintain their own work in your production environment then a 10x programmer is a great idea.

Otherwise consider other human qualities such as communication skills, adaptability and critical thinking as more valuable than raw coding skill.

neilzo 8 hours ago 0 replies      
A good read but I doubt one of his assumptions:

 "you cant be good doing things you do not love"
I believe you can be very competent at doing things you tolerate. It's time to dispel the notion passion == quality of work.

macca321 13 hours ago 0 replies      
The 10x/-10x decisions are made by the architects, and the decisions tend to involve where network/codebase/layer/service boundaries are drawn.
guelo 8 hours ago 0 replies      
The few times I've had the luck of working with 10x developer (or Nx for some unknown value of N) what I noticed was raw intelligence, insatiable thirst for learning and curiosity, and an intense focus bordering on obsessive.
alexee 13 hours ago 0 replies      
I'm not sure if it's only me, but I started to see a lot of 1/10x programmers in startups. They can know all newest "cool" technologies, go to various conferences, have a lot of followers on twitter and reputation on stackoverflow, but when it comes to the real work, their value for the company is around zero, usually can't even solve simplest tickets (probably busy tweeting stuff?).
jacquesm 12 hours ago 0 replies      
Productivity is all about the choices that you make.

It's the essentially the same as optimizing a computer program: you can't make it do more work faster, you can only make it do less work.

And if 'less work' means the problem is solved anyway then you are a 'faster' programmer, even if you produce fewer lines of code than your 'slower' counterpart.

mighty_warrior 12 hours ago 0 replies      
Honestly the section about debugging skills needs to be much higher in the article. Debugging skills are essential to learning legacy applications you are thrown into and understanding how your code works in general. It amazes me when I see an engineer with 5+ years experience who cannot hook up a remote debugger to their application.

My number one observation about productivity usually revolves around how an engineer attacks a problem and handles scope creep. There are some programmers who can get a set of requirements, and like a trained surgeon get in, fix the big bleed and get out. While they are in there they might fix a couple close issues but they are not re-architecting the whole application. Then there are others who see all the problems, they notice this problem there, and that problem here and keep asking what does this all mean and it eventually cripples them. They spend some much time seeing all the problems, that they never get around to solving the one they were tasked to fix.

Once you realize you won't understand it all from the beginning and you can't fix every issue you see. You become a much more effective engineer.

pg_bot 13 hours ago 0 replies      
I would add "reading the manual" to the list of things that people don't do enough of. I'm often shocked by people just diving into coding instead of doing the research to see if something has already been provided for you. You will go very far if you understand what the technologies you use are capable of doing.
hellofunk 13 hours ago 0 replies      
10X? Steve Jobs said more than once in interviews that he saw a 200X difference among professional programmers.

Which I think is bull, of course. You can't quantify things like that. Some people are better than others, but any claim of 10X or 200X is missing a much bigger picture of how humans contribute to each other's work.

Sir_Cmpwn 13 hours ago 0 replies      
I think the real key is simply experience. From what I've seen a 10x programmer is simply one who has worked on 10x as many projects as the baseline. The things the article points out are common traits of such people. A 10x programmer has worked on several teams and has lots of side projects.
CSMastermind 12 hours ago 0 replies      
This topic is addressed by Greg Wilson in his exceptional talk: What We Actually Know About Software Development, and Why We Believe Its True


xigency 10 hours ago 1 reply      
Since this article relies on the premise that a "10 X" programmer makes any sense, I'm going to spend time refuting that central point.

If programmer productivity, or software developer/software engineer productivity, is measured as a linear function, then it really does no service to the field. Beyond looking at network effects from the impact developers have on each other, there is no universal measure of productivity. It would be more believable to say that certain developers have twice as many or five times the number of lines of code produced that are defect free, than to say that they achieve a certain level of productivity.

The two reasons that this should be immediately seen as nonsense to anyone in the field is that first of all, computer problems deal with asymptotic complexity. In the asymptotic world, linear functions are outshined by constant, logarithmic, polynomial, and exponential functions. Furthermore, the prevailing wisdom among programmers is that 'less is more'. That's why we talk about minimizing lines of code and trying to avoid the most bugs by leaving the least surface area for them to exist to begin with. Introducing a measure where 'more is better' is sort of at odds with this philosophy and should be viewed skeptically.

Finally, if you look at the great successful innovative products in software, and technology in general, you'll see that they often make use of new inventions. There's no way to compare an inventor in terms of productivity by saying one has 10 times as many patents as the other, or to compare a mathematician by the number of papers or pages published. The important difference is the quality of the invention or discovery. The engineers at AltaVista and Yahoo could have been extremely productive, but without a revelation like Page Rank, they never could have competed with Google back in the early days of search engines. Here, two college students writing a small amount of code outperformed larger companies. This has nothing to do with productivity and everything to do with talent.

This leads me to believe that the "10 X" slogan is a product of marketers, head hunters, and pop psychologists. It has no bearing on the field of computer science and it is a harmful concept because it perpetuates the idea that software developers are replaceable parts rather than unique contributors.

cafard 12 hours ago 0 replies      
I would mention also http://yosefk.com/blog/?s=10x
iamgopal 13 hours ago 0 replies      
10x programmer is like Linus, who programs and set structure of the working code. rest of the feature addition and bug solving can be done with 2x programmer.
cdevs 13 hours ago 1 reply      
To me programmer that knows devops is the 10x programmer in the right company.
WildUtah 13 hours ago 1 reply      
Fixed width font on a blog? Is it still 1983 out there somewhere?

Maybe you'd be 10x more productive if it didn't hurt everyone's eyes to read your writing.

partycoder 13 hours ago 0 replies      
Some productivity killers:

- Distractions

- Feature creep

- Poor code organization: coupling, action at a distance, cyclomatic complexity

- Noise: comments that do not get to the point. A tool to mitigate this is https://foxtype.com

- Hacks and lack of consistency

- Lack of automation: tests, builds, deployments

Regarding hacks, imagine what would physics equations would look like if a fundamental constant was wrong. All equations would need to compensate for it by including some arbitrary constant making everything more complicated. That is what messy code bases look like, layers of lies to compensate for lies. Clean code is more straightforward, easier to work with.

Regarding iterations... does the army run an exercise with soldiers and trucks and live ammo each time a general wants to test an idea? No. They use simulations, and only the ones that look promising are turned into exercises. So rather than asking engineers to prototype some throwaway idea, get your hands dirty and use Powerpoint and your imagination, stress the idea, then build it. And if it's built, keep it in a feature branch until you've actually decided to keep it for good.

When a car is built, engineers tell designers to modify their concepts in order to make the production more cost efficient. Same in software... be prepared to negotiate requirements if that is in the best interest of the project.

edblarney 8 hours ago 0 replies      
Maybe one things missing: 'specific domain knowledge'.

At least 1/2 of programming is learning. You can make a basic Android App, but have you learned how to do 'deep linking'. Well, it can take a full day the first time because it's awkward, and you have to understand a few things, and set a few things up server side.

Second time - it'll take 1 hour.

There's a lot of that.

If you're really comfortable with XMLHttpRequest, and know the ins and outs of post/form structures - well then you can do something quickly in it. If you don't well, it could take a bit to learn for a new dev.

Those things add up a lot. It takes several years to get comfortable with the variety of tools and tech necessary to be good.

nsfyn55 11 hours ago 0 replies      
OP says 10X programmer is a myth. Then describes the exact characteristics that make some programmers 10 times more productive than others. Maybe not so much a myth.
perseusprime11 12 hours ago 0 replies      
In my experience, there are 10x engineers but I often noticed they are 10x only because they tend to work alone. As soon as you start pairing them with another 10x engineer, they become 0x because they tend to fight about every decision.
baltimore 13 hours ago 3 replies      
The quantity and quality of grammatical errors in the piece were finely calibrated to keep me reading it to the end. A curious effect.
d--b 14 hours ago 1 reply      
10x programmer = very good programmer. End of discussion.
throwaway_374 13 hours ago 1 reply      
The 10x programmer is a myth perpetuated by senior management to get compliant submission from naive young code monkeys. End of discussion.
HugoDaniel 13 hours ago 0 replies      
I am the mythical 1/10x programmer. Sadly currently not available for hire. :)
dkarapetyan 9 hours ago 0 replies      
Sigh. Why do we keep perpetuating this myth? From the words of the greatest genius of the 20th century

Right. I dont believe in the idea that there are a few peculiar people capable of understanding math, and the rest of the world is normal. Math is a human discovery, and its no more complicated than humans can understand. I had a calculus book once that said, What one fool can do, another can. What weve been able to work out about nature may look abstract and threatening to someone who hasnt studied it, but it was fools who did it, and in the next generation, all the fools will understand it. Theres a tendency to pomposity in all this, to make it deep and profound. Richard Feynman, Omni 1979

Stop the pomposity. Please.

J.C. Penneys troubles are reflected in satellite images of its parking lots theoutline.com
62 points by jonbaer  3 hours ago   28 comments top 10
averagewall 1 hour ago 0 replies      
Oh no, not another graph with misleading axes. It doesn't really show such a perfect fit as it looks like. They've both scaled and translated the axes to make the two curves look similar to each other. If they counted cars upwards from 0 instead of downwards from the previous amount, then it'd make more sense but then we would see if the slopes were different or there was an offset indicating, for example, that cars are expected to still remain after the stock price reaches 0.

Good on them for starting the stock price axis at 0, that's a rarity in stock-price graphs.

timthelion 2 hours ago 1 reply      
There is a lot of this going on in Prague. There is even an entire specialty called geoinformatics that you can study. I have an aquantance who's first comercial project was to tell the city which street lights are out.

This really goes to show, however, how the everyday man has no hope, as an investor, against the big boys.

Edit: I origionally wanted to link to this startup https://spaceknow.com/ but couldn't remember the name.

ChuckMcM 43 minutes ago 0 replies      
I find this sort of data extraction interesting (I especially like the guys who try to validate trade numbers by counting containers in shipping ports as an example) but wonder about correlation here. JC Penny is in malls, malls are getting fewer and fewer customers, cars in mall parking lots are going down. JC Penny seems to be slowly dying because their online presence cannot compete with Amazon, so is this 'watch along with the satellites as fewer and fewer people go to brick and mortar stores' ?

That said, there are so many interesting things that having open spy satellites has made available to the non-spy.

walrus01 51 minutes ago 0 replies      
This is a real world application of the same IMINT principles used during the cold war (and currently in use), with large nation states that had the money to build and launch photo reconnaissance satellites. Now applied to privately acquired satellite imagery. Example: Soviet Union analysts looking at photos of parking lots at key US defense contractors (Boeing, Lockheed, etc) and correlating them with intelligence related to certain projects. And vice versa.
pjungwir 2 hours ago 6 replies      
I wonder what it costs to get these images, and if you could get them more cheaply by flying drones? I guess that would require a presence in a lot of places though. . . . Still, maybe you could focus on just a few cities, and get pictures more frequently than you'd get with satellites? Maybe there is an opportunity there.
Avshalom 1 hour ago 1 reply      
J.C. Penny's troubles are Target[1]: we have sufficently fashionable clothing for -10% less.

[1]any fast fashion retailer really.

gallerdude 1 hour ago 0 replies      
Off topic - I recommend this site. Breadth and depth in terms of the article types. And the design is kind of weird, but I do dig it.
harrygallagher4 2 hours ago 2 replies      
This is a little off topic, but did anyone else see the absolutely huge ad in the middle of the article? It takes up 670px in a window that's only 960px tall. Is this a new trend in advertising?
secfirstmd 2 hours ago 0 replies      
Clicked but got a certificate error
ChuckMcM 1 hour ago 1 reply      
I see huge crowds, maybe the most cars in a parking lot ever, I don't know, you look out the door and its nothing but cars, huge. Many people say that JC Penny is the best store, huge store, way bigger than Amazon. Have you seen an Amazon store when walking by yourself in the Mall? I haven't. You know why? Amazon is a fake store. That's right, fake store. Nobody buys anything there because its fake, all fake. Malls are wonderful places, I love Malls, everyone goes there and loves them, all our shopping is done at Malls, and I have to say I know a thing or two about Malls. Huge crowds, JC Penny is the best. No more questions.
How Victor Hugo came to write Les Misrables economist.com
63 points by ghosh  10 hours ago   14 comments top 6
david927 2 hours ago 1 reply      
The article would better be titled, "How Les Misrables changed the world." Its impact is sadly lost in generations since who would rather view the film or musical at the expense of reading the novel.

I'm not surprised it's also the most adapted novel of all time as it is, in my opinion, the greatest novel ever written and a monument to what literature can be. But I definitely worry that its impact will be more and more limited by alternatives to simply reading the original.

mauvehaus 4 hours ago 1 reply      
A contract that paid by the word, perhaps? I got 700 pages in one year over winter break when I was in college. A (mostly, it was many years ago now) complete summary of the events that had happened that would be familiar to those who have seen the musical:

1. Jean Valjean acquired some silver from the bishop.2. It was established that M. Thenardier looted the deceased soldiers at the battle of Waterloo.3. The existence of Fantine and possibly Cosette had been established? 4. Perhaps Valjean had become the mayor of some town after using what was formerly the bishop's silver to become an honest man?

Note that Javert, who is the other major character besides Valjean has yet to put in an appearance, despite showing up in perhaps the first 10 minutes of the musical. M. Thenardier is, at best, a minor player in the musical, and prior to his introduction, we get ~50 pages on the history of the Battle of Waterloo.

The Princess Bride gently mocks the genre by advertising itself as "abridged". I can't help but feel it's justified.

devindotcom 7 hours ago 1 reply      
Hugo is fantastically intelligent but also unabashedly romantic - perhaps even sentimental. I loved Les Miserables, and one of the good things about it was its exoneration of the conscience, of what the main characters unshakingly feel to be be good.

He also packs a fair amount of (occasionally apocryphal) history into it. I love the many pages spent describing Waterloo from start to finish, and his judgment of the battle is sobering:


pavel_lishin 7 hours ago 0 replies      
It doesn't really explain how, or why. Just that he did, in 1845. And then had to do so from exile, after 1848.
jhbadger 7 hours ago 1 reply      
It's interesting that this is the second book for the general public this year to be about another book and its influence. I recently read "The Book That Changed America: How Darwin's Theory of Evolution Ignited a Nation" which is about the Origin of Species.
7Z7 7 hours ago 0 replies      
Show HN: I wrote a book?
The Function of Reason edge.org
39 points by remx  9 hours ago   4 comments top 3
woodandsteel 3 hours ago 0 replies      
Some very interesting ideas about reason and communication in human society.

However, it missed that a key social function of reason and communication is for joint decision making. So one person throws out a suggestion with some reasons for it, a second presents reasons to point out what is right and wrong about it and persuades the first person, and throws out a new suggestion, the first person critiques it, and so on back-and-forth until a course of action is arrived at that both people agree is best. You can see this process even in fairly young children.

It is odd Sperber misses this since he seems to have just this sort of relationship with his collegues and co-workers, and enjoys it very much.

zeteo 3 hours ago 1 reply      
This piece contains four major ideas. They're mixed up with biographical detail and polemics so they can use a separate exposition:

A. Your words are not an encoding of your meaning

> [Y]our words are not an encoding of your meaning; they are a piece of evidence from which your meaning has to be inferred. [T]his can also be expressed by behavior, by gesture, and indeed by cultural symbols, where you convey that relevance will be achieved by orienting in a certain direction, by looking at certain things rather than others, by approaching them with a certain kind of expectation. Theres a continuum of cases between precise meanings that you can paraphrase and much vaguer effects

B. The paradox of cultural transmission

> [T]he paradox is that if you look at cultures, what you see is quite a bit of stability: The same words are being used more or less in the same sense for generation [...] the same tales are being told to children [...] the same recipes are being cooked [...] How can things stay so stable?

> [C]ommunication is not a replication system. When I communicate to you, you dont get in your mind a copy of my meaning. Youll transform it into something else. You extract from it whats relevant to you.

> If you see a friend who has a great recipe for apple pie and you imitate it, you dont really copy it. You look at it and you extract from it a way to do it your own way. There's a loss of information at every step, which is quite significant. [...] So how can you have this macro stability of cultural things with this micro failure to replicate?

> Fidelity [of copying] is not the only way to ensure stability. You can have stability [...] if the transformations that everybody produces at each step [...] converge, if you have what I can call a cultural attractor

C. Reason is an ability to share intuitions and justify ourselves in the eyes of others

> Why are reasons of any relevance to us? In our own individual thinking, reasons dont matter very much. We trust ourselves. [...] You dont need to look for a reason for what you intuitively believe. [...] But if we want to communicate to others what we believe and they dont have the same intuitions, we may still share intuitions about reasons for our belief

> We use reason to justify ourselves. [... Others] have to think that the way we think and behave makes us reliable partners. The evidence they have is from what we do, which can be interpreted in a variety of ways. What we can do is provide reasons for our actions and our thoughts [...] to show that we had good reasons and can be trusted to have similarly good reasons in the future.

> Its an ability to understand others, to justify ourselves in the eyes of others, to convince them of our ideas, to accept and to evaluate the justifications and arguments that others give and be convinced by them or not

>Rather than seeing as a paradox the fact that people can use reason to defend absurd ideas, as we see happen all the time, this is exactly part of what we assume is going to happen.

D. Science progresses by people using their reason to defend what they hit by luck

> Its never the case for me, and rarely the case for anybody, that you gather so much evidence and data that somehow an idea emerges. [...] I think its mostly luck, when you hit on a good idea. Other people, just as bright and smart as you, have the bad luck of hitting on a bad idea. They invest a lot on the bad idea and they dont get anywhere. If you have been lucky enough to hit on a good idea then, indeed, youll find confirming evidence, good evidence that will start explaining lots of things. But initially I think were groping in the dark.

> The kind of achievements that are often cited as the proof that reason is so superior, like scientific achievements, are [...] typically a product of social interaction over generations. They are social, cultural products, where many minds had to [...] progressively explore a lot of directions [...], not because some were more reasonable than others, but because some were luckier than others in what they hit. And then they used their reason to defend what they hit by luck.

peterwwillis 4 hours ago 0 replies      
So... Reasoning is for socializing, but I never found out why, this is too rambly and I'm not trapped on a four hour flight anymore.
YC W17 Launch: MDAcne, Supr Daily, Bitrise, and Bulletin ycombinator.com
26 points by craigcannon  6 hours ago   6 comments top 5
baccredited 2 hours ago 1 reply      
YC - Love the blog post intro format. If you offered a daily email with new YC company descriptions I would subscribe (just subscribed to weekly). I've invested in over 100 startups--this is more than curiosity.
jackfrodo 2 hours ago 0 replies      
Bulletin seems great! I work in Soho and am always surprised to see empty shops. I do wonder if it's successful, if it will face the same criticism as Airbnb - it prices out long term tenants in favor of more lucrative short term ones.
pedalpete 4 hours ago 0 replies      
Really liking Bulletin - with the number of 'pop-up' shops here in Sydney, I'm sure a trend that is world-wide, they're solving a supply and demand side issue.
bjshepard 1 hour ago 0 replies      
The commodification of land is antisocial and bad for other economic agents. Euthanasia of the rentier class is good policy all, including the rentier class.
desireco42 3 hours ago 0 replies      
I really enjoyed this selection. All are valid problems and I can see how they can be successful. Maybe not billion dollar companies.
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