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The average size of Web pages is now the average size of a Doom install mobiforge.com
646 points by Ovid  8 hours ago   319 comments top 56
jessriedel 8 hours ago 10 replies      
I'm skeptical that developers talking to each other about how bad web bloat is will change anything. They will still face the same incentives in terms of ad revenue, costs of optimization, etc.

Here's a random idea that might have more potential: create an adblocker browser plugin that also colors URLs based on how slow they are expected to load, e.g., smoothly from blue to red. The scores could be centrally calculated for the top N URLs on the web (or perhaps, an estimate based on the top M domain names and other signals) and downloaded to the client (so no privacy issues). People will very quickly learn to associate red URLs with the feeling "ugh, this page is taking forever". So long as the metric was reasonably robust to gaming, websites would face a greater pressure to cut the bloat. And yet, it's still ultimately feedback determined by a user's revealed preferences, based on what they think is worth waiting how long for, rather than a developer's guess about what's reasonable.

snowwrestler 7 hours ago 13 replies      
The Doom install image was 35x the size of the Apollo guidance computer.

Thirty-five times! Apollo software got us to the moon. Doom wasted millions of man-hours on a video game.

My point of course is that these comparisons are not actually that illuminating.

Are web pages much heavier than they need to be? Yes. This presentation very capably talks about that problem:


Does comparing web pages to Doom help understand or improve the situation? No, not any more than comparing Doom to Apollo memory size helps us understand the difference between a video game and a history-altering exploration.

robotnoises 8 hours ago 4 replies      
Before everyone jumps onto the JQuery/Bootstrap/etc sucks bandwagon, just a reminder that the minified jquery from cdnjs is 84.1kb. Bootstrap is 43.1kb.

If you want your page to load fast, the overall "size" of the page shouldn't be at the top of your list of concerns. Try reducing the # of requests, first. Combine and minify your javascript, use image sprites, etc.

K0nserv 8 hours ago 6 replies      
Quite happy with my own web page/blog. Pages hover at around 10kb, 30kb if I include some images. I think the page size can be attributed a lot to there being no JS except for GA.

I have taken a lot of inspiration from http://motherfuckingwebsite.com/ and http://bettermotherfuckingwebsite.com/

Of course the size will differ depending on the site's purpose, but I feel like most web pages could stand to loose a lot of weight.

EDIT: I have a guide to setup a similar blog/site here[0]

0: https://hugotunius.se/2016/01/10/the-one-cent-blog.html

Kurtz79 6 hours ago 0 replies      
It is hardly surprising, considering that a single picture taken with an average smartphone is probably already surpassing that by quite a bit.

Times change, and 20 years in tech is equivalent to several geological ages.

If anything, it cannot really be underestimated how some developers were able to craft such compelling gaming experiences, with the limited resources available at the time.

My personal favorite as "most impressive game for its size":


Tenhundfeld 8 hours ago 1 reply      
Interesting comparison, if a bit arbitrary. It raises a couple of questions though.

1) How do the numbers come out when you exclude images?

It's valid and good to know the total sizes, including images, but that can hide huge discrepancies in the experienced performance of a site.

For example, a page with 150KB of HTML/CSS/JS and a single 2.1MB hero image can feel very different from a page with 2MB of HTML/CSS/JS and a few 50KB images.

If we're just interested in total bandwidth consumption, then sure, total size is a good metric. If we're interested in how a user experiences the web, there's a lot of variability and nuance buried in that.

2) What device and methodology were used to take the measurements?

In this age of responsive design, CSS media queries, and infinite scrolling/deferred loading, it really matters how you measure and what you use to measure.

For example, if I load a page on my large retina screen and scroll to the bottom, many sites will send far more data than if I load them on my phone and don't scroll past the fold.

I only skimmed the article and didn't dig in to the references. These questions may be answered elsewhere.

Jerry2 8 hours ago 0 replies      
Maciej Cegowski has a great talk/writeup on this very problem:

The Website Obesity Crisis


Heres the video of the talk if you prefer to hear him speak:https://vimeo.com/147806338

seanwilson 6 hours ago 2 replies      
Lots of people are focusing on excessive JavaScript and CSS but these combined are easily dwarfed by a single high quality image.

Try visiting Apple's website for example. I can't see how you can have a small page weight if your page includes several images that are meant to look good on high quality screens. You're not going to convince marketing and page designers to go with imageless pages.

Doom's original resolution was 320x200 = 64K pixels in 8-bit colour mode. Even an Apple Watch has 92K pixels and 24-bit colour (three times more space per pixel) now, and a 15" MacBook display shows 5.2M pixels. The space used for high quality images on newer displays is order of magnitudes higher to what Doom hardware had to show.

seagreen 6 hours ago 0 replies      
Oh God.

Every discussion about the web will continue to be a mess until we clarify what we're talking about.

Let's try rephrasing the title a couple times.

Rephrase 1: "The average size of a webapp is now the average size of a Doom install".

Response: Interesting, but not bad! Heck, some webapps are games. "The average size of a web game is now the average size of Doom" isn't a sentence that damns the web, it's a sentence that complements the web! (or would if it was true, and it might be for all I know)

Rephrase 2: "The average size of web document is now the average size of a Doom install".

Response: Well this sucks (or would if it was true -- still we don't know). Simple documents should be a few KB, not the size of a game.

Basically our terminology is shot to crap. Imagine if 19th century engineers used the same word for "hand crank" and "steam engine". "Hand crank prices are skyrocketing! What's causing this massive bloat!" Whelp, that could mean anything.

The best solution: web browsers should enforce a clear distinction between "web documents" and "web apps". These are two different things and should be treated separately. This won't happen though, which leaves us (the rest of the tech community) to explore other options . . .

dreamlayers 8 hours ago 2 replies      
In the late 00s I remember turning on an old computer with a 650 MHz Athlon CPU and being surprised that web browsing performance in Firefox wasn't bad. Now if I try that with a 1 GHz Pentium 3, performance is absolutely horrible. Is this why?
spriggan3 7 hours ago 0 replies      
The average data plan here is 10GB :

1,000,000 * 10 / 2250 = 4444 web pages a month

4444 / 31 = 143 web pages a day at most on mobile.

While it is somehow acceptable, I don't see data plans getting cheaper yet the size of the average webpage is raising fast.

It doesn't seem like most websites have heavily invested in using HTML5 offline capabilities or actual mobile first design either, something easy to check with chrome dev tools.

Also let's talk about ads : Polygon.com a site I visit often , first article on the homepage with an Iphone 5 :

- with ads/trackers 1.5mb- without ads 623kb

More than half of the load is ad/tracking related. This isn't normal.

overcast 8 hours ago 3 replies      
With the majority of users moving towards mobile, I really think this is an issue, and I've been consciously building projects as lean as possible. Removing bloated jquery libraries was a big one. With native calls likedocument.querySelectorAlldocument.querySelector I've found I can 90% get by without it. For the rest, using something like vue.js, and I've taken care of all the dom manipulation, data binding, etc.
kgr 2 hours ago 0 replies      
Send models rather than code. Low-level code is relatively unexpressive, contains considerable redundancy, and as a result, is relatively large. By sending high-level models instead, which are then expanded on the client to working code, application download size can be greatly decreased. Models typically provide one to two orders of magnitude of compression over code.

This video shows how we do it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S4LbUv5FsGQ

This document gives some results (like a GMail client that is 100X smaller): https://docs.google.com/a/google.com/document/d/1Kuw6_sMCKE7...

hackertux 25 minutes ago 0 replies      
warriorkitty 8 hours ago 13 replies      
Oh, you just want to add a class to the element? \adds whole jQuery\ That's what's wrong with the web.

Oh, and you need a loop? \adds underscore.js\

dclowd9901 1 hour ago 0 replies      
Are we really complaining about webpage size when fully 30% of web traffic is Netflix? This might be an unpopular opinion but websites are no longer just html, css and js. They're full on applications with rich interaction and data visualization. Call me when they're larger than an average modern native app install.
dempseye 6 hours ago 0 replies      
I once bought a pre-made landing page template with all kinds of whizz bang Javascript libraries built in. The demo page was 4 MB. In the time it took to strip all the trash out of the template I could have designed the page myself. I'll never do that again.

I wonder how much of the problem is due to bloated templates.

datalist 8 hours ago 0 replies      
Not too long ago Medium pushed an "invisible" 1MB image to clients


and the video it refers to https://vimeo.com/147806338

skarap 7 hours ago 0 replies      
Looks like most of the discussion here is on network traffic.

Minifying JS and CSS, compression, CDNs and caching won't keep your browser from having to render all the stuff.


The stewardess on a new jet airliner:

- Ladies and gentlemen, welcome aboard of our new airplane. On the second deck you'll find a couple of bars and a restaurant. The golf course is on the third deck. You're also welcome to visit the swimming pool on the fourth deck. Now - ladies and gentlemen - please fasten your seatbelts. With all this sh*t we'll try to take off.

stepvhen 3 hours ago 1 reply      
> Recall that Doom is a multi-level first person shooter that ships with an advanced 3D rendering engine and multiple levels, each comprised of maps, sprites and sound effects.

Doom isn't in true 3D, its an advanced raycasting engine. The levels are all 2D, there are no polygons, you can't look up and down. Doom has been ported to a TI Calculator. Lets maintain some perspective here.

forgotpwtomain 8 hours ago 1 reply      
How about browser bloat? Each chromium tab on linux takes an extra ~50-150mb depending on the site -- and I still have no idea what they need all of that memory for...
jordigh 7 hours ago 0 replies      
Just to clarify, since I was confused (I remembered that Doom 2 was about 30 megs uncompressed, which websites are still a long ways from), this metric appears to refer to the compressed size of the Doom 1 shareware distribution.


donkeyd 8 hours ago 0 replies      
Visited a website a few days ago, which used 2048x1365 jpegs for 190x125 buttons. They had multiple buttons like this on multiple pages. I sent them an e-mail about this, but I don't expect them to fix it.
collyw 8 hours ago 0 replies      
I remember thinking years ago, that my CV in Word took up more memory than my first computer (Acorn Electron 32kb ram). It amazes me that I used to play Elete on that machine.
perseusprime11 3 hours ago 0 replies      
Enable Ghostery and load cnn.com and you will see why the web pages are so heavy these days.
stegosaurus 8 hours ago 2 replies      
If web bloat is a problem, I don't think that looking at whether <insert buzzword framework of CURRENT_YEAR> can be removed is the answer.

I suggest that at the moment, we have basically two camps of website, with rough, fuzzy boundaries.

1. A place where someone sticks up an insight, or posts a wiki page, or whatever, to share some thought to others (if anyone actually cares). The blogs of many users of HN. Hacker News itself. Wikipedia. The Arch Linux Wiki. lwn.net. Etc. The sites are very roughly concerned with 'this is what I care about, if you do, great, this is useful to you'.

2. Commercial web sites that employ sophisticated means to try and enlarge market share and retain users. AB testing. 'Seamless' experiences which are aimed at getting more views, with user experience as an afterthought (a sort of evolutionary pressure, but not the only one).

Complaining that camp #2 exists is strange. It's a bit like lamenting the fact that chocolate bars aren't just chocolate bars, they have flashy wrappers, clever ingredients, optimized sugar ratio, crunchy bit and non crunchy bit, etc.

It works! A snickers bar is a global blockbuster, and 'Tesco chocolate bar' is the functional chocolate bar that just does the job, but will never attain that level of commercial success, it serves a different role.


My personal view:

Fundamentally what I want when we click a link from an aggregator, is an 'article.txt' with perhaps a relevant image or two. Something like http://motherfuckingwebsite.com/ maybe.

But if a site actually does that, a website like The Guardian, I'd fire up wget, strip all the advertising, strip the fact it's even The Guardian, and read it like a book. If everyone does it then no-one makes any money, site dies.

So what we actually have is this constant DRM-style race to try and fight for our brains to get us to look at adverts. It's not about jQuery, it's about advertising, branding, 'self vs other' (the integrity of a company as a coherent thing), etc.

I don't know what the answer is here. I think this is why I find concepts like UBI so appealing - I find it kind of alarming that we seem doomed to infect more and more of the commons with commercialization because we haven't found a solution to keep each other alive otherwise.

jokoon 8 hours ago 0 replies      
I just watched https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q4dYwEyjZcY this video about the early HTML standardization process, and it seems to explain all the ills of HTML.

So indeed, there is a huge optimization opportunity of having a stricter error model.

Also, I'm really wondering how much battery could be saved when surfing such pages.

Also I'm sure there is a lot of potential going in the pre-parsed document model. But that's a next level kind of engineering I guess.

jakobdabo 3 hours ago 0 replies      
Yesterday I discovered that Twitter's HTTP headers alone are ~3500 bytes long (25 tweets!) with several long cookies, custom headers and the Content Security Policy[1] containing ~90 records. Is this considered normal nowadays?

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Content_Security_Policy

maerF0x0 5 hours ago 0 replies      
This all comes down to cost. It is much cheaper to have "bloat" than it is to pay devs to fix it. And customers find it much cheaper to deal with "bloat" than to find smaller alternatives. Sure the average webpage is bigger than doom, but the CPU in my phone is approximately 100x (times multicore too?) than the 486 that ran Doom.

Sure, if man hours were free, we could trim it all down to (my rough guess) about 1/10th the size. But at $100 or even $10 an hour its just not worth it. Pay the GBs to your carrier, spend $50 more on a better phone.

CM30 4 hours ago 0 replies      
It's also about 2 times bigger than a lot of SNES and Mega Drive games. Or about 4 times bigger than Super Mario World (512KB).

As for why it's getting so insane, probably either:

1. Frameworks, since most people don't remove the code they're not using. For Bootstrap or Foundation, that can be a lot of extra code.

2. Content Management Systems, since stuff like WordPress, Drupal, Joomla, any forum or social network script, tend to add a lot of extra code (more so if you've added plugins).

3. The aforementioned tracking codes, ads, etc.

aorth 8 hours ago 0 replies      
> The top ten sites are significantly lighter than the rest (worth noting if you want to be a top website).

Wow. That's nice to see actually.

alasano 7 hours ago 0 replies      
I'm genuinely excited by ensuring great response times and minimal load on a website.

Locally I see so many companies building good looking but horrendously optimized websites for their clientele who don't know enough to ask for it.

The last company I worked at were building a local search engine and were displaying thumbnails whilst loading full size pictures which were hot linked from businesses websites. With an auto loading feature at the bottom of the page by the php backend, an initial 5-6 Mb page load could turn into 30+ Mb within a few seconds of scrolling. Add to this no gzipping and caching was not properly configured either.

I tried my best to get some changes going but the senior (and only other) dev wouldn't allow any modifications to the current system "for the moment". It was a bit frustrating to see so many easy fixes ignored.

bb85 6 hours ago 1 reply      
> The top ten sites are significantly lighter than the rest (worth noting if you want to be a top website)

Isn't that that the top websites have a lot more ressources available to improve asset management, cleanup and refactor?

AdamN 7 hours ago 0 replies      
The only real solution is a search engine that allows the end user to clip the results based on the maximum size of the total page. I've often wondered why Duck Duck Go doesn't do this as well as filter search results based on number of ad networks used, etc...
damon_c 2 hours ago 0 replies      
In 20 years the average size of web pages will be the size of a Quake 3 install. This is progress.
apeace 5 hours ago 0 replies      
This page clocks in at 935kb in my browser. According to this same page, that is roughly the size of Sim City 2000.
sergiotapia 6 hours ago 0 replies      
Arguably sites have been increasing in size for one simple reason: It directly results in increased sales.

Everything is sales.

If cleaner, 'purer' sites made more money you bet the average web page would be 10kb.

It's all about what translates to more sales. As such, you won't ever see a return to more traditional websites. Look at Amazon with it's virtual dress models, heavy as hell, but they most certainly land more sales.

sugarfactory 5 hours ago 1 reply      
Google developed SPDY, an efficient binary representation of HTTP messages. Maybe they will do the same thing but for HTML. It would be much more efficient if one could design a binary representation of HTML that can only express well-formed HTML.
webscalist 8 hours ago 0 replies      
What happened to semantic markups? In the name of rendering optimizations, many web sites use css background image instead of <img>
chasing 4 hours ago 0 replies      
The only conclusion I can legitimately draw from this article is that in twenty years a single web page will be larger than the 65GB Grand Theft Auto V install.
njharman 7 hours ago 1 reply      
So, were can I play Doom in the browser?
Joof 6 hours ago 0 replies      
From this title; maybe hacker news needs a twitter?

Also:You can't use average page weight when you are just looking at the top ten. That downturn could represent a single website; all others could be increasing in size.

CaptSpify 6 hours ago 1 reply      
disclaimer: my own blog - https://blog.thekyel.com/?anchor=Why_I_Block_Scripts_and_Ads

I kept looking for a "minimal" blogging platform, but they all had too much bloat/JS/etc. I guess minimal means different things to different people. I ended up just writing my own. The biggest post I have is 7.41 KB.

I used to be interested in front-end design, but since it's the industry standard to use $latest_framework, instead of tried and proven practices, I've given up on that idea.

NelsonMinar 5 hours ago 0 replies      
Is there a Chrome extenson that shows the size of a web page? There's a good one for page load time that I use, but I want kilobytes with and without cache.
qaq 2 hours ago 0 replies      
Too bad we can not measure it football fields
JoeAltmaier 8 hours ago 1 reply      
...and my first computer had 128 bytes of RAM. And a 300-baud modem.
thom 8 hours ago 1 reply      
There's a reason that the economics of web development mostly work and the economics of games development mostly do not.
intrasight 7 hours ago 0 replies      
The publishers really have no incentive to address this until a critical mass of users install adblock software.
Shivetya 44 minutes ago 0 replies      
and here I remember that the PDF of the Turbo Pascal manual was so many multiples of the compiler's size I needed a calculator to figure it out
hammock 8 hours ago 6 replies      
Can anyone explain why a simple web page is so much bigger now than a whole game?
jmnicolas 8 hours ago 4 replies      
> The average size of Web pages is now the average size of a Doom install

It's not really surprising in a world where a graphical driver is > 100 MB (Nvidia driver for Windows).

imaginenore 8 hours ago 0 replies      
For the last project I built the initial page load with the absolutely minimal JS that was embedded into the page. Then it loaded the rest whenever it needed it. My coworkers were shocked how quickly the page loaded.

It's actually better to show the user some progress bar, than the standard browser's "Waiting for yoursite.com".

You can get away with a lot without jQuery, while still having clean-ish code.

ebbv 8 hours ago 5 replies      
I would argue two things:

1) This is an irrelevant statistic.

2) Even if this were true it's not that big of a deal.

This is irrelevant because most people don't browse the average web page. They browse the top few sites on the internet and that's it. A more relevant statistic would be what have the sizes of the top 50 sites been over the last 15 years. I imagine they still may have grown on average, but download speeds have also grown over that time. Especially on mobile.

Even if we accept the premise that web sites as a whole, including the most popular ones are all growing and are now an average of 2.2MB each. Who cares? 2.2MB is nothing in 2016. Even on an LTE connection that's probably between 4 and 1.5 seconds to download the full page. And a lot of that size is probably in ads, which nobody minds if they load last or not at all.

Lastly, this is a self fixing problem. If a site is too bloated, users will stop going to it.

But I would propose that a lot of this increase in size is due to users (especially mobile) having higher and higher resolution displays, which necessitates higher resolution content, which of course is bigger.

elcapitan 7 hours ago 0 replies      
Doom would have been the superior solution to the World Wide Web.
flexterra 7 hours ago 0 replies      
what is the average size of a native mobile app?
pljns 8 hours ago 3 replies      
The average Web page now does more than the average Doom install, I don't see the relevance of this.

Although I get really annoyed when I visit a blog post whose page is 100x larger than Dostoevsky's novels in .txt format. On my blog (https://pljns.com/blog/), JQuery and genericons are often my largest file transfers, but I still clock under 500kb.

1M People Use Facebook Over Tor facebook.com
261 points by Titanous  6 hours ago   124 comments top 12
nocarrier 6 hours ago 4 replies      
Alec Muffet has done a lot of work to get Facebook running on TOR and he's a true believer. I really enjoyed working with him when I was at Facebook. He also did a lot of work to get .onion domains to be recognized by registrars as a special purpose domain name. This let us issue certificates on .onion.

I don't know if the story behind the facebookcorewwwi.onion domain name itself has been talked about much, but we wanted a memorable name for the domain so we took a new cluster that hadn't been put in production yet and threw something like 500k cores at brute forcing onion names till we had a memorable domain name. Alec had a script that looked for hashes that started with facebook and then he picked the one that seemed to fit the most. And that's how we have facebookcorewwwi.onion now.

putasidemobile 1 hour ago 2 replies      
Related: Please Facebook, let me peek over your walled garden. Taking a privacy-friendly stance, with the current Facebook, hurts my social life.

I do not trust your company, and I think you are bound to act unethically in the future. But I do not ask you to become a trustworthy ethical company. Mess with the accounts of my friends all you want. I just want to be invited to the next BBQ. People have stopped using e-mail for announcing these social events, and _all_ use Facebook. Could it be possible for me to not be on Facebook, yet still stay up-to-date on what my friends, or hell, even my parents now, are doing? A more advanced social graph API that hooks into email, RSS, Twitter, whatever... ?

I'm sure you also have my email-address from the address books of my contacts, so you could verify me.

As one of your longest non-users (I remember when TheFacebook required a Harvard-email for invite), please let me become a semi-user. It won't pay you a dime, but it will make the world a better place.

supermatt 6 hours ago 2 replies      
Or 1 person uses 1M facebook accounts over Tor...
akavel 5 hours ago 1 reply      
I've recently tried using FB via TOR (Browser) for the first time, but was unable. After entering the onion address and my FB credentials, I was informed that the account is temporarily blocked (presumably because of first access via TOR). I was presented with an option of unblocking it by recognizing a few photos of friends and matching them to names - but unfortunately, all those photos showed as blank, white squares!

So, I wasn't able to login via TOR via the purposefully created .onion address. Also, sent an issue report via non-TOR login about this, but never got any response.

Note also that this seems to mean to me, that there may be people who are cut off from FB via TOR same as me, but who don't even have a way to notify FB about the fact. And thus not having any chance of having the bug fixed.

HalcyonicStorm 6 hours ago 11 replies      
Please explain it to me if I'm wrong, but doesn't logging into Facebook on Tor defeat the purpose of Tor?
NelsonMinar 5 hours ago 1 reply      
It's funny that they say people use Tor "for a variety of reasons related to privacy, security and safety". They left out "firewall circumvention", which I have to believe is the #1 reason, at least in China.
agildehaus 6 hours ago 3 replies      
I thought .onion addresses were for anonymous hidden services, which Facebook is not. What's the advantage of accessing a .onion versus using Tor to visit the normal facebook.com?
rhokstar 5 hours ago 1 reply      
Maybe bot networks are included in that number?
sidcool 6 hours ago 3 replies      
Does Google allow searches from Tor network? Last I heard it didn't.
mvidal01 6 hours ago 1 reply      
I wonder how many of these accounts are sock puppets?
logicallee 4 hours ago 3 replies      
Given Facebook's real-name policy, and the fact that it's literally a social network of your best friends, then since all Facebook pages are HTTPS anyway, the idea of using it over tor is... Uh... a bizarre

in theory the only thing you're leaking over a plain https is, "Hey this guy has friends." (this connection is visiting facebook).

meanwhile in theory I'd expect facebook to leak everything else on their end, because come on. I have next to zero expectation of privacy on facebook.

by that I mean you think people are planning terrorist plots over facebook? come on.

so I find the mashup of tor with facebook to be kind of bizarre.

hfourm 3 hours ago 1 reply      
Terrible title. I was wondering in what use case Facebook makes sense as an alternative to Tor
San Francisco Is Requiring Solar Panels on All New Buildings nextcity.org
240 points by uptown  5 hours ago   239 comments top 25
eldavido 5 hours ago 14 replies      
Partner is an architect in SF (works on 2nd St.)

She's currently dealing with two overlapping regulations, one from the state, the other from the city:(1) All electrical outlets must be placed less than 18 inches from the edge of a countertop, to make them accessible to people in wheelchairs

(2) A countertop must have an outlet every 18 inches, or less.

They're getting held up in permitting because there is a no constructible L-shaped countertop that satisfies both of these constraints. The best part, nobody on either side seems to care much, they're "just doing their job"...and housing isn't getting built.

I'm not sure what to make of this, other than that it's the newest brilliant "innovation" from the place that banned happy meal toys, and outlawed plastic bags.

davidw 5 hours ago 4 replies      
Simply allowing more density would be a greener plan: http://www.vox.com/2016/4/20/11467110/san-francisco-solar-de...
anxman 57 minutes ago 0 replies      
I live in SF and I'm active in the real estate businesses too. While on the surface, this seems like great news it comes with hidden negative externalities. Specifically, this law benefits existing owners who are will be grandfathered out of this requirement.

Any new builder will see their housing development costs go up, and given the short supply of housing, will cause RE prices to go up on new housing. This system therefore benefits existing landowners who were able to reap higher gains on existing buildings and helps create a moat on new housing development.

Also, just in case anybody is curious, most solar panels are not a good economic investment for an investor. In an optimistic case, they may pay for themselves in 7-10 years but the value of the asset itself depreciates so quickly that it isn't worth the risk financially or in on-going maintenance costs.

eldavido 4 hours ago 3 replies      
Another thing: this is why we (tech) need to engage with politics.

If there's one thing we really understand, it's complexity: why it sucks, how to avoid it, and how piling on rule after rule can make the legal code "unmaintainable" (sound familiar?)

mc32 1 hour ago 0 replies      
Scott is pretty reasonable, but in this case I think the whole supes went overboard. I would have preferred a stipulation to make them solar ready,but not outright installed. I feel that sometimes excitement and wanting to be "leaders in x" gets the better of them, from time to time.

When I plan to buy a house I'll seriously consider installing solar, but id almost want to tear down any installation forced on by the city. If it's your property it should be up to you to consider what you want to add to your domicile. Maybe I don't want the upfront cost of solar, or maybe I planned on other renewables.

Put solar on all your city buses, put solar on all city buildings, etc. Don't force solar on homeowners who never wanted it.

geebee 5 hours ago 5 replies      
For the cost of these solar panels, what else could we be doing to reduce carbon emissions? Here in SF or internationally?

I do think that carbon reduction is pretty essential, but it's so essential that I don't think we can waste our money on low yield actions. I'm not saying this strictly is, I'd have to read about it more, but I'm not optimistic that mandating very specific technologies will be a good approach.

almost_usual 20 minutes ago 0 replies      
Makes sense in a place like San Francisco. One good hail storm in the Midwest and you'd have a lot of broken solar panels.
beaud 22 minutes ago 0 replies      
If you're interested in solar and our renewable energy future, we're hiring full-stack engineers at Wunder Capital (TS'14)

Learn more here: https://www.wundercapital.com/

matt_wulfeck 4 hours ago 0 replies      
At first I liked the idea, but then I remembered what a beuacratic and hostile nightmare it is to build in San Francisco (and CA in genera) and quickly turned against it.

Would it not have been sufficient to offer tax incentive carrots instead of making it a requirement?

jkot 4 hours ago 1 reply      
Serious question: how many new buildings are started in SF per year?
haha1234 3 hours ago 1 reply      
San Francisco why would anyone want to live there ... trashy, ridiculously expensive, smell of homeless & downtrodden everywhere, the mentally ill with megaphones shouting their crazy on the streets.

I've lived in many US cities and WoW San Fran is a shock to the system!

moultano 5 hours ago 2 replies      
New buildings? In San Francisco?
bcheung 2 hours ago 0 replies      
Not that San Francisco has any room for new buildings but this smells like crony capitalism. Which solar panel company lobbied to have this become law? And which politician is getting the kickback?
resonanttoe 32 minutes ago 0 replies      
So... no new solar panels for SF then?
guimarin 5 hours ago 4 replies      
This is pretty typical of SF. Try and solve a problem they are not well suited to solve at the city level. SF has a ton of Fog, building solar panels would not be as beneficial to the city as increasing density and allowing people to have roof-decks.

Another great example is homelessness. Homelessness is actually something which should be addressed at the Federal (for Veterans) and State (for people who should receive medical help) levels, not the city. Oh well.

The end result of this solar initiative will be to increase costs for the poor. The 'real' solution is for CA gov't to stipulate that all dwellings of X and Y quality that receive Z amounts of sunlight are required to offset A% of their annual energy consumption with Solar/wind energy. You can either build it on your own home or buy a share in a solar/wind farm.

wrsh07 1 hour ago 0 replies      
It only applies to buildings with 10 or fewer floors. Do you think this will just encourage new ~10 story buildings to instead be >= 11 stories?
pascalxus 1 hour ago 0 replies      
Just wonderful. Another housing regulation which will further disencentivize a greater housing supply.
sebringj 2 hours ago 0 replies      
Isn't this good news for Tesla's giga factory?
maxschumacher91 1 hour ago 0 replies      
lucky for them that nobody is building in SF.
akerro 5 hours ago 1 reply      
Which senator has some shares in a business?
blisterpeanuts 2 hours ago 0 replies      
Seems like a good idea to have solar on every building, but I have to ask: how many new buildings go up in SF in a year?

I thought the problem was that they have a lot of architecture preservation and not enough new office and residential construction.

Similar to Boston and Manhattan, mature cities where there isn't that much new construction, so this kind of ordinance seems more symbolic than practical.

arrty88 1 hour ago 0 replies      
great for my solr stocks
henvic 3 hours ago 0 replies      
nkrisc 4 hours ago 0 replies      
Oh, I get it. People can live on top of the solar panels.
djschnei 1 hour ago 0 replies      
Definitely within the reasonable bounds of what local government can demand with the threat of violence. How progressive of them.
Edward Snowden: The Internet Is Broken popsci.com
147 points by doctorshady  4 hours ago   35 comments top 8
mirimir 2 hours ago 0 replies      
Excellect! It's the most cogent analysis that I've seen from him. Damn, what a fucking hero!

A few comments, however ...

> ... we had to go to the dark side to be able to confront the threat posed by bad guys. We had to adopt their methods for ourselves.

He's using "we" there in reference to the government. But it can also be read with "we" as you and me, and "bad guys" as the government ;) But then, I claim a broad "right to be left alone", one that doesn't concede any state monopoly on power.

> ... you cant opt out of governmental mass surveillance that watches everybody in the world without regard to any suspicious criminal activity or any kind of wrong doing.

Well, sure you can ... as he goes on to explain ...

> You would need to act like a spy to pursue a career in a field like journalism because you are always being watched.

... and ...

> Instead of changing your phone to change your persona divorcing your journalist phone from your personal phone you can use the systems that are surrounding us all of the time to move between personas.

Right! Compartmentalization is for sure the way to go. There are numerous personas like Mirimir. Maybe I make it too distinctive. But I have no meatspace identity that goes on like Mirimir does. And Mirimir, ve has lots of vis personas. So hey, let's create a tangled morass of overlapping personas ;)

partycoder 2 hours ago 2 replies      
The EFF warned long ago something was going on when AT&T was putting beam splitters on Internet backbones to feed the NSA. Then Snowden revealed how everything is tapped.Then, be sure all mainstream encryption is "NOBUS". Nothing is truly random. Someone somewhere has the master key: elliptic curve cryptography using magic numbers from NIST? "Secure boot" by Intel? OpenSSL? Microsoft software? All backdoored.Trust no one.
nickpsecurity 35 minutes ago 1 reply      
He's still not getting it or fully recommending it any more than most have. The funny thing is that I recently read a 150 page interview with one of founders of INFOSEC, Dr Schell, that showed his employer was the same way: ignored "COMPUSEC" as useless in favor of "COMSEC" solutions to all security problems. Schell, Karger, and Anderson's tiger teams smashed every mainframe and crypto using system put in front of them due to hardware and software bugs. They bypassed it.

Like Schell and Karger said for 30 years, what we need is to start deploying high-assurance security practices, protocols, systems, methods... everything that's proven to get the job done in various ways. We need them deployed pervasively. More private protocols and encryption by default, too, but who gives a shit if it runs on systems so insecure it doesn't need backdoors?

Let's go back to 1960's moving toward the 70's and 80's on hardware stuff. Burroughs stuff was tagged so everything in memory was code or data, pointers protected, arrays bounds-checked, arguments checked on function calls, and OS tried to isolate apps from each other. Some LISP machines had GC's for memory management. System/38 had capability-security & built-in database. Solo had safe concurrency at OS level. One had read-only firmware you couldn't change without physically moving it with a nucleus that handle protected functions that OS's built on. Two implemented a secure, Ada runtime that enforced the language's safety properties. SAFE (crash-safe.org), Cambridge's CHERI, and Sandia's SSP/Score processors follow these traditions.

Now let's look at how Schell et al said to do assurance. Precise, math/flowcharts/whatever description of functional and security requirements to avoid ambiguities & resulting vulnerabilities. Similar for design with attention to simplicity. Implementation in safest language you can with simpler subset and style easy to analyze. Every module proven to match a requirement/spec so no subversion (well, a start on it...). Strict modularity, layering, and interface checks all over the place. Success and failure states modeled then shown to follow a precise, security policy. If you can't state it precisely, then you can't secure it because you don't know what security means for you. Code review, tests of each function, formal proofs if possible, static analysis if possible, covert channel analysis of info flows, configuration management that assumes malicious developers, source to object code verification, trusted distribution of HW/SW to customers, onsite verification/generation from source, and configuration guidance. All of this independently verified by at least one set of professionals that know what they're doing.

That was security in 1970's-1980's. Far from red tape some here claim, every method above was proven by researchers, field users, and pentesters to catch serious problems. The only dispute was what caught most and where to spend most money. Even those questions had decent answers. Well, plus specific design and modeling decisions but INFOSEC was in infancy & that was evolving. I'm talking assurance activities: getting it done right whatever it is. Fast forward today to find that all the problems Schell, Karger, etc predicted have happened and consistently in systems that don't use those methods whereas systems that do avoid many more problems.

So, here's the solution: raise assurance of our systems across the board using methods that go back to 1961. That's right, Burroughs engineers were doing a better job on security before that was even a thing just trying to improve reliability. This is 2016. We have better specs, better languages, better static analysis, easier formal tools, automated test generation, tons of sample code, fast dev machines... you name it. There's no excuse, outside willful ignorance or apathy, for security-focused developers (esp in FOSS) to not use everything at their disposal that's proven to work at reducing risk. Even less excuse for the stuff they make to still be less secure than tech from the friggin 60's and 70's.

Shout out to the exceptions that are trying to do it right. Groups like GenodeOS, Dresden, NICTA/OKL4, Carlisle's IRONSIDES DNS, Bernstein's stuff, Galois, JX OS, ETH, INRIA, Secure64, Sentinel HYDRA (minus bodacion crap lol), Combex, and even NativeClient since they knocked off OP browser. Enough stuff like this and NSA will be begging us to ban INFOSEC books and shit since their info will dry up haha.

0xCMP 2 hours ago 3 replies      
> But at the same time, we technologists as a class knew academically that these capabilities could be abused, but nobody actually believed they would be abused. Because why would you do that? It seemed so antisocial as a basic concept.

I guess so? Not me though. Snowden literally only proved what I had learned on my own.

> But we were confronted with documented evidence in 2013 that even what most people would consider to be a fairly forthright upstanding government was abusing these capabilities in the most indiscriminate way.

Um. Who thought this? Ever? Since the 90s.

yoz-y 1 hour ago 0 replies      
Soo... roll out your own crypto?
awqrre 1 hour ago 0 replies      
Computers are also broken, and the Internet makes it more obvious.
lolidaisuki 4 hours ago 3 replies      

>You are receiving this error message because your ip ( is listed in the StopForumSpam.com database.

>You can check the status of your IP and have it removed by visiting http://www.stopforumspam.com/removal. Thank you.

It's kind of ironical that they are quoting Snowden and their own site blocks Tor.

E: didn't HN used to have markdown quoting?

known 3 hours ago 1 reply      
Broken for whom?
Glot.io: Open Source pastebin with runnable snippets and API glot.io
156 points by phantom_oracle  5 hours ago   40 comments top 23
aioprisan 1 minute ago 0 replies      
This is excellent! Reminds me of a tool I wrote a few years back that only supported 4 languages that we used at my past company. Great to see this open sourced!
pseudobry 2 hours ago 1 reply      
This is really cool to see, but also somewhat depressing because it reminds me that I spent about 500 hours of my free time building the same thing, and even had it deployed at codetrain.io for a while, but then lost interest and now my code's wasting away in a private bitbucket repo.

Before I shut mine down it could run 13 or so different languages, spin up collaborative REPLs for Node.js/Python/Ruby, and organize snippets into tutorials/lessions, etc. It was awesome, but now sits in my side project graveyard. It's a shame really.

Glad to see glot.io getting more attention.

tyingq 4 hours ago 1 reply      
This is very cool. I'd really love to see a "how it works" blog post, particularly for the runnable snippets, and what your approach to protecting it from abuse and hacking is.
b3b0p 4 hours ago 0 replies      
I couldn't help but notice they use Haskell and Yesod for the web portion https://github.com/prasmussen/glot-www
furier 51 minutes ago 1 reply      
FYI - This is the work of one guy only not multiple, just thought i mention it as people refer to the dev in plural.

And my guess as to different parts of the application has been developed in different languages and to the use of two db's are for educational purposes.

namtrac 4 hours ago 0 replies      
Great, would be nice to have and updated clang (seems to be using 3.5.1) and python3 (using 3.4.3). Generally its nice to point out the version of the compiler it's using somewhere as a note.
dafuq2 4 hours ago 1 reply      
karl42 2 hours ago 0 replies      
There's also http://www.gistrun.com , which executes all code on the client.
kahuna4637 2 hours ago 0 replies      
Please make R a language here. That would be amazing to be able to run snippets. I could see a lot of uses!
beyondcompute 1 hour ago 1 reply      
Can I install packages/modules for my scripts (e.g. using npm)?
kevindeasis 2 hours ago 0 replies      
This is very fascinating.

How does the rocket science work here? Like how do you run different programming languages in the client side.

Do they pass the code to the server and run it in there then pass it to the client?

arturadib 4 hours ago 0 replies      
This is incredible. The key is in its simplicity, speed, and variety of languages.


rocketcity 3 hours ago 0 replies      
Thank you for this! Going to share it with the rest of my team right now. I always need a tool like this and had been using http://codepad.org/ until now. This interface is much slicker.
sosedoff 2 hours ago 0 replies      
Check another similar tool BitRun - https://bit.run/Very good for rapid prototyping.
smaili 1 hour ago 0 replies      
Feature request - be able to make the editor's height taller.

Other than that, awesome job!

netcraft 3 hours ago 0 replies      
nice, you can even require other files in JS - although it would be nice to be able to customize the file names - but still very useful for the kind of thing I would normally use a gist for.

Edit: I do wish it had a more recent version of node though (currently v0.12.7)

asadlionpk 2 hours ago 0 replies      
This is awesome. I wonder how you make it secure. Btw, I am the dev behind https://codepad.remoteinterview.io
mattdgroves 4 hours ago 0 replies      
I think this is pretty cool. Might be nice to be able to embed them (i.e. like you can with Github gists).
baldfat 3 hours ago 0 replies      
I hope they add R soon.
s4chin 4 hours ago 0 replies      
This is good! Though, some sort of captcha will be useful to avoid people spamming this.
alexkavon 4 hours ago 2 replies      
This is interesting, but I'm not sure why they use CouchDB and PostgreSQL.
daveguy 4 hours ago 1 reply      
Some metadata:

MIT license

Haskell infrastructure


Open source everything -- runners, site, etc

Very nice!

markbnj 2 hours ago 0 replies      
Nice work on this!
CERN has released 300 terabytes of research data from LHC symmetrymagazine.org
20 points by elorant  1 hour ago   1 comment top
deepnet 9 minutes ago 0 replies      
This article is derived from the more fact filled original:


A Disappointing Ruling on National Security Letters, but Not the Last Word eff.org
41 points by DiabloD3  3 hours ago   1 comment top
drcube 4 minutes ago 0 replies      
Why don't more people just ignore the gag orders? I would. I understand most people won't, but there certainly should be more than one guy who illegally revealed his NSL in the 15 years or so since they began.
The Looting of ShapeShift bitcoin.com
80 points by danielvf  4 hours ago   45 comments top 9
cortesoft 2 hours ago 3 replies      
Man, calling a social security number a "social serfdom number" is really dumb and off putting. So is the continual reference to 'fiat money' constantly.

I always love the irony of people so against the basic social contract are always so quick to turn to authorities when things predictably go wrong.

quanticle 3 hours ago 2 replies      

 We learn some more things. Bob has prior police records in Florida, where hes from.
So they didn't even do a background check before hiring "Bob"? For a position where he would have access to systems that handled financial data? That's just grossly incompetent, in my book. I've worked for 5-man startups and Fortune 500 companies. In every case, the offer letter has stated that the offer is conditional on the successful completion of a background check, and none of the positions I've held have been remotely as sensitive as the position that Bob was hired for.

danielvf 3 hours ago 6 replies      
This is certainly the worst case scenario - your security officer installing remote access software on developers machines, stealing bitcoins from production, then selling the company source code, access credentials and access to the internal network to a Russian hacker.

Building a security system to handle this level of attack is a whole level beyond stopping even determined external attackers. Are there any best practices guides on this?

One thing that the article showed is the importance of external security review to deal with the threat of internal incompetence or evil.

tekromancr 3 hours ago 0 replies      
Facinating. More interesting reading seems to be available here: https://www.patrolx.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/309591980...
jessaustin 3 hours ago 1 reply      
It seems odd to me that "Bob" hasn't been outed. It almost makes me suspect that someone isn't sure how much of "Bob's" role as portrayed in TFA is true and how much is a frame-job by an untouchable hacker [EDIT:] or wishful thinking by a frustrated executive.
keithpeter 50 minutes ago 1 reply      
"We had changed almost everything, but hadnt scrapped our personal computers used while Bob had been part of the team. Would that have been the paranoid thing to do? Yes."

At my humble and refreshingly drama-free place of work we have standard client images. Anything weird and the techies re-image the client. Assuming 'Bob' wasn't in charge of the images, would such a procedure have sorted the rdp?

koolba 1 hour ago 0 replies      
Not the best writing but it reads like a modern hardboiled[1]. Fun piece.

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hardboiled

oh_sigh 3 hours ago 0 replies      
What's the status of civil/criminal charges against Bob?
fasteo 2 hours ago 3 replies      
Am I the only one to think that all this narrative to blame Bob is pathetic ?

This is pure and simple Mr. Voorhees (CEO) incompetency. After all, Bob is a criminal and he was just doing his "job".

Walt Disney's MultiPlane Camera (1957) [video] youtube.com
70 points by jschwartz11  4 hours ago   12 comments top 8
spking 3 hours ago 2 replies      
Ub Iwerks is one of the most under-appreciated technical geniuses in film industry history. In addition to being an early innovator of multiplane camera design, he introduced the xerographic process into animation and drove the development of the sodium vapor process for combining animation with live action.

His son Don Iwerks also created the first 360-degree camera (for use in Disney's 1950s nature documentaries).


chaostheory 1 hour ago 0 replies      
Here's a big picture view of the Multiplane camera on my site: http://www.theymadethat.com/things/multiplane-camera

(Shameless plug) If you like what you see, please upvote and comment on my ApplyHN: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11523675

topherjaynes 2 hours ago 0 replies      
This is such and understated break through in animation technology. It help the create better shots, but helped distribute pieces of development. It's not unlike what the tech department did at ILM. They used technology to help create the shots they need, which lead to digital editing, computer shot layouts, and many other tech advances that seems standard these days. Highly recommend Droidmaker by Michael Rubin
trsohmers 3 hours ago 0 replies      
There is a very impressive display of this at the Walt Disney Family Museum in the Presidio, San Francisco. I highly recommend checking it out if you have 2 or 3 hours in SF!
agumonkey 2 hours ago 0 replies      
Funny how the 4th wall narrator - character interaction reminds me of 12 tasks of Asterix intro segment. Probably an homage.

ps: only recently I realized how much animation techniques were a big part of non animated movies too. Matte paintings etc.

hammock 3 hours ago 0 replies      
No gloves used when handling the celluloids or painted glass?
iMark 2 hours ago 0 replies      
It was undeniably impressive 60 years ago, but I can only imagine the glee Disney himself would have felt to realise that out outcome of such technological evolution was available to so many today (but not yet everyone, sadly)
6stringmerc 3 hours ago 0 replies      
Wow, quite a neat find and overview of an innovation in pursuit of a goal. Reminds me of how I was using Flash for animation projects long ago. What an exponentially easier process than the one Disney highlights here.
U.S. Suicide Rate Surges to a 30-Year High nytimes.com
179 points by Eiriksmal  5 hours ago   181 comments top 25
twoquestions 4 hours ago 8 replies      
Doesn't surprise me unfortunately.

While in theory anyone in the US can make it with sufficient effort, the reality is that some people get economically shat on through no fault of their own. Our national mythology/culture doesn't take this into account, and as a result we're incredibly vicious towards those who struggle.

As more and more capital needs less and less labor to be profitable and create value, we're going to need to find more effective ways to make sure everyone's needed, or things have a potential to get much worse before they get better.

EDIT: As others have noted, we also severely undervalue social capital, so we by and large firesale it to accumulate more material value. We work more instead of spending time with friends and family, thereby dangerously isolating ourselves. Thank you all for pointing this out.

sakopov 3 hours ago 4 replies      
My family immigrated to the US from Russia back in 1998. We were below poverty-level poor. It was a real, tough struggle to stay afloat, but I never remembered the sense of dread, desperation or depression. You were just too busy surviving. 18 years later and we have cars, houses, bank accounts, 401(k)s, IRAs, stocks and etc and I've never seen my family more miserable than I do now. I really had no idea what depression even was until we came here and I started struggling with it and finally went to a therapist after I couldn't take it any more. Sometimes when you don't have much you appreciate what you actually have and that's more than enough to live for.
RALaBarge 5 hours ago 4 replies      
It is sometimes easy to forget to acknowledge the bubble we find ourselves in, in modern life.

In a group of professionals where we are taught "the sky is the limit!", it is important to remember that for the vast majority of our brothers and sisters on this earth, not only is the default difficulty of life set to hard but the deck is also stacked against them in every game.

yk 3 hours ago 1 reply      
Semi-random thought about the article on middle class people who can not afford a $400 emergency a few days ago[0], media creates remarkably unrealistic expectations. In that article someone estimated that one needs $100k - $150k for a middle class live. Or rather for the expectations of a middle class live.

An example is people tweeting food, if you follow thirteen people who post pictures of their lunch, then you will only have a comparatively good lunch once every two weeks. (And that is only if you don't follow people whose job is to post amazing food.) Similar, TV is full of people who complain about being poor sitting in an apartment with Hudson river view. ( It does not help, that the apartment looks like it was designed by an $5000/hr interior designer, because the director wanted it to look good and hired an $5000/hr interior designer.)

Basically this is a variant of Charlie Stross's idea, that news acts as a depressant, because that is the kind of news that sells. ( And is usually a lot easier to write.) Old-media is full of the kind of middle class existence that is at three times the median income, while social media means that the expectation is to keep up on average with the maximum of your peers (because only the best is posted).

[0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11527523

[1] http://www.antipope.org/charlie/blog-static/2013/04/psa-igno...

eastbayjake 3 hours ago 2 replies      
I pulled some WHO data for a collection of North American and European countries over the last thirty years[1], and while it's factually accurate that US suicide rates are at a 30-year high the rate remains middle-of-the-pack for developed Western nations. The "surge" is a small absolute increase from the 30-year baseline.

That does not make it any less tragic or less deserving of attention, but we should pick appropriately-scaled policy solutions instead of those we might use for a crisis. (The NPR piece today about suicide rates in Greenland strikes me as an extreme crisis.[2])

It's also worth noting, for all the people pointing out economic causes for increased suicide, that economically-battered Greece has by far the lowest suicide rate in this group.

[1] http://imgur.com/OKnsBF4

[2] http://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2016/04/21/47484792...

overcast 3 hours ago 3 replies      
This isn't surprising at all. Social media permeating every inch of our souls, just drowns people in everyone else's seemingly perfect lives. When people view Facebook feeds of everyone on vacation, eating amazing food, taking amazing adventures. It makes you feel like you're missing out on all of that, and that your life can't possibly compare. While in reality, it's many cherry picked snippets of potentially hundreds and thousands of lives. I've certainly caught myself being worried about not being at my maximum potential, why didn't I go to an Ivy league school, why didn't I work harder and play with the big boys Silicon Valley, why am I not out traveling the world living carefree. However from any outsider, I'd be viewed as incredibly successful. It's a sad state to be in, and you just have to distance yourself from it. It's awesome to have goals, but you can't expect to be able to achieve the goals of hundreds of people simultaneously.
stray 3 hours ago 1 reply      
"Researchers also found an alarming increase among girls 10 to 14, whose suicide rate, while still very low, had tripled."

It is tragic that girls of that age range kill themselves at all. By 2014, their suicide rate rose to the level of boys' suicides in 1999.

Meanwhile, boys' suicide rate between 1999 and 2014 rose even more than girls. This however, is not alarming for some reason.

lalallala 4 hours ago 0 replies      

Crisis Text Line provides free assistance to anyone who texts help to 741-741.

If you prefer to talk on the phone, N.I.H. recommends the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline: 1-800-273-TALK (8255).

jernfrost 2 hours ago 0 replies      
I think the myth of the American dream is an unhealthy contribution. Americans have been bottle feed that anybody can make it in American through hard work. When people fail anyway I suspect it is much easier to blame yourself and look at yourself as a failure to the family that depends on you. Viewing oneself as a failure is a tough pill to swallow for many.

I think many Americans would have a healthier mental state if it was acknowledged that the poverty and unemployment many experience is not caused by their lack of hard work or character but a product of the failures of the society they live in.

America is now one of the least socially mobile places in the western world and yet the majority of American keep believing in the myth that anything is possible.

kazinator 2 hours ago 1 reply      
> Recent research has highlighted the plight of less educated whites, showing surges in deaths from drug overdoses, suicides, liver disease and alcohol poisoning, particularly among those with a high school education or less.

Why is the article mentioning accidents and diseases? Is it implying that these are counted as suicide? I.e. is this the same research, or a tangential discussion of some other results?

If liver disease was not considered suicide 30 years ago, but is counted a suicide, you will have a jump in the numbers.

More people dying of drug overdoses can easily be pinned on the War on Drugs, which creates an ecosystem such that only brutal criminals get to distribute drugs, and they don't care what they contain since they don't even bat an eyelash when they murder. Overdoes don't prove increasing "plight"; they more directly confirm increasing junk on the streets. Not to mention, new kinds of drugs!

willidiots 3 hours ago 1 reply      
Lots of comments in here about economic factors. It's important to recognize that depression can occur independent of one's situation. There's a stigma around depression which keeps many people quiet when they need help the most. I worry that our decreasing face-to-face interaction and emphasis on individual-success-at-all-costs is worsening this; it's so easy to socially isolate yourself these days.
advantark 5 hours ago 3 replies      
Unemployment may be going down, but that doesn't count for much when most of the added jobs are $10/hr service jobs.
carsongross 3 hours ago 2 replies      
Hysterical. The female rate is < 1/3rd that of men and still the articles first five paragraphs focus almost entirely on women.
dickbasedregex 2 hours ago 0 replies      
This is only going to increase. At 36 and considered successful I dread every day. I resent and seethe constantly. I've seen numerous healthcare professionals and feel like each have failed. I only bother anymore because it's expected of me. That matters less and less every day.

All anyone does is pay lip service to any of this. It will get far worse before it's likely to get better.

Honestly, let it come.

dominotw 4 hours ago 3 replies      
Curious about the huge disparity between male/female suicide rates in > 75 age group.


maxerickson 4 hours ago 1 reply      
The absolute rate was 13 per 100,000 people. At that level, a major rise is enough to get public health officials to pay attention, it isn't a signal of our society crumbling before our eyes.
eli_gottlieb 5 hours ago 2 replies      
So the real-wages economy is still in recession, I bet.
sebringj 2 hours ago 0 replies      
Waking up from the American Dream tends to do just that. The banks have more power than ever after the housing market collapse and income inequality keeps steadily increasing. The rules are shifting in the favor of capitalism in its purest form, devoid of empathy. At the same time, the world's poorest are experiencing better living standards. Are those somehow related?
harywilke 2 hours ago 0 replies      
These stats[1] are form 2013, but i always find it interesting that just over 1/2 of the suicides in the US are from self inflicted gun injuries. 1. http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/suicide.htm
dragontamer 4 hours ago 1 reply      
There's clearly a socioeconomic issue at hand here.

A somewhat related statistic is the death rate in rural America.


If we see suicide as a mental-health issue, then its just another statistic demonstrating that people are unhealthy.

ktRolster 4 hours ago 1 reply      
It's not surprising, they've seen the presidential candidates.
crimsonalucard 2 hours ago 0 replies      

I think we're all searching for happiness. While I still haven't found what it is for me personally, I think we're all looking in the wrong place.

skylan_q 4 hours ago 0 replies      
our hugboxes aren't working.
known 3 hours ago 1 reply      
May be unable to achieve self-actualization in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maslow%27s_hierarchy_of_needs
Secret Court Takes Another Bite Out of the Fourth Amendment eff.org
199 points by DiabloD3  3 hours ago   39 comments top 11
DannyBee 1 hour ago 3 replies      
Errr, reading the actual decision, i don't see a lot of support for the EFF's claims. It seems pretty cherry picked.

In fact it clearly states they can only retain stuff long term if the DOJ notifies them explicitly that they have a continuing litigation/preservation hold necessity (which is usually not the DOJ doing it,but say, a civil lawsuit that carries with it preservation obligations).

It also makes further clear that in all cases, the only people with access to most of any retained data is system administrators, not investigators, and that it can't be used for investigative purposes.

It does say general querying is allowed, but only people explicit 702 access rights are the ones who must be making such queries, or making such decisions. In all cases all records of who accessesd what with what query terms and their access level are explicitly logged, etc.

It also explicitly states that information acquired under section 702 will not be introduced as evidence against a person in a criminal proceeding, without1. Explicit approval of the attorney general2. in criminal cases related to national security crimes

In any case, this is not new, this viewpoint is something going back to FISC precedent from 2002.

So it's not like this just happened.

Additionally, the statute is pretty clear here.

It says:"(h) Minimization procedures, with respect to electronic surveillance, means

...(3) notwithstanding paragraphs (1) and (2), procedures that allow for the retention and dissemination of information that is evidence of a crime which has been, is being, or is about to be committed and that is to be retained or disseminated for law enforcement purposes; and"

So again, nothing new here, this has been law for quite a while.

In short, i may hate a lot of things about FISA/FISC/etc, but i think the EFF is stretching to say this is a new problem, or to blame the court for it.

tmuir 2 hours ago 0 replies      
I wonder if this means that the NSA's definition of "collect" has conveniently reverted back to the widely accepted meaning.

Their previous defense was that "collect" meant to actually inspect the information.

partycoder 2 hours ago 1 reply      
Western press always mocks eastern countries because of their policies around surveillance and censorship to restrict free speech. They rarely report on what is going on around here.
rboyd 2 hours ago 1 reply      
What's best as a society is to fight. What's best as an individual is to conform.
DenisM 1 hour ago 2 replies      
A lost opportunity. Had they asked for the court orders from the FBI, that could set the framework for the future - information is collected, but cannot be searched without a court order. That could have been a decent compromise.

This is not going to be a popular opinion, but I think a compromise is necessary. There is no way to stand up to the train of data collection. For one, the public being afraid of this and that will demand to be protected at all costs, no matter how small the threat. The more scandalous the news cycle gets, the more panic we will see. And then the technology improves so fast, soon enough publicly installed video cameras will track everyone, and all within the constitutional framework.

A middle ground would be to create the fourth branch of the government that is tasked with data collection, but will only give it up on court order. Orders may be for individual incidents based on reasonable cause, or for data-mining, based on a judgement of proper scope.

pcrh 1 hour ago 0 replies      
Man... this is depressing...

I'm counting on you lot at HN and beyond to create the technology allowing widespread encryption that makes such surveillance moot.

rco8786 2 hours ago 0 replies      
We all knew it was coming, but dang that was fast.
Karunamon 2 hours ago 2 replies      
Could someone clarify something for me?

As I understand it, PRISM is not a thing that lets the NSA willy nilly search the internal networks of companies they've onboard,

It is instead a thing for companies who would be the target of large volumes of these requests just because of their size to upload the data they're legally required to because of NSL or similar, in a rapid fashion.

Is this assessment correct?

tacos 1 hour ago 5 replies      
Is anyone aware of a source for this type of news that isn't quite so one-sided? It seems all we have is hyper-lefty "sky is falling" stuff and hard-charging right-wing "shut up kids, the government knows what's best for you."

I want reporting, not advocacy. The better of the mainstream press outlets are balanced to a fault but get the interesting details wrong or leave them out altogether. The fringe outlets target their core audience with lots of spun details and a lack of opposing viewpoint.

EDIT: If anyone can get past "lefty vs righty" and answer my core question I'd really appreciate it. This is a genuine query for information, not a clever way to troll.

deepnet 2 hours ago 1 reply      
"If one would give me six lines written by the hand of the most honest man, I would find something in them to have him hanged", Cardinal Richleu.

'Nothing to hide' privacy naysayers imagine innocence a perfect defense.

In practice a prosecution presents select facts in the order best suited to convict.

Under mass surveillance they have all the facts; the defense only has what one still possesses/ remembers.

With such resources, enough well cast aspersions could convict anyone of something.

Counter intuitively innocence can be harder to defend as the guilty will have prepared alabis. (part2 @)

Lawyers advise their clients not to talk freely to police for very good reason.@

@ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wXkI4t7nuc

CamperBob2 1 hour ago 0 replies      
No, not yet, but they certainly can be. Handing this technology to the next J. Edgar Hoover -- and rest assured, there will be a next J. Edgar Hoover, even if Comey isn't him -- will be like giving an atomic bomb to that kid in high school that everybody was pretty sure would end up in jail.

If the judges and politicians had half a brain, they'd understand that they, and not us, will be the first to experience the downsides of a security state gone berserk.

Concerned about veteran with PTSD, judge serves time with him abajournal.com
109 points by dctoedt  5 hours ago   25 comments top 5
biomcgary 4 hours ago 1 reply      
The judge is also a veteran. The shared background and experience is what allowed the judge to experience empathy and see the perpetrator's humanity, while still rendering the (most likely) necessary judgement.
mdturnerphys 3 hours ago 0 replies      
"Do things that don't scale" :)
thorntonbf 1 hour ago 2 replies      
It's really encouraging to see people in the system who really care about helping the people they serve, and this judge is clearly in that category.

His comments in the video about "sometimes they lose their way" was filled with compassion.

We need more people like that in the world.

fapjacks 2 hours ago 1 reply      
As a veteran with PTSD, I can say without a doubt this was probably helpful to the guy who got the DUI. Every veteran knows the "hole" story, and it is absolutely true. When I was in a dark hole myself after my last tour, I came home and just laid on the floor in my living room drunk. I couldn't do anything. Couldn't leave the house. Couldn't do anything but just lay there on the living room floor and drink, staring at the ceiling. My best friend in the universe (a legit BFF, if you will), he came and laid next to me on my living room floor. It's hard to describe what that means to someone that's never experienced it. But I will tell you without a doubt that both of those guys got something worthwhile out of sitting in jail together. We spend years sitting in holes in the army (or some other kind of shitty situation), and it becomes natural to draw strength from the unity of having a buddy in the shitty situation with you ("We are experiencing this shitty thing together"). It is pretty important I think to have the same opportunity as veterans after leaving the service. I've since done very similar things for friends of mine, and I encourage any veterans reading this to do the same for anyone you know going through similar trouble.
JadeNB 3 hours ago 2 replies      
In case one instance of humanity isn't sufficient to brighten your Friday, the next story (linked at the bottom of the article) is cheering, too: http://www.abajournal.com/news/article/relying_on_executive_... . (Given yesterday's story about a measured response to drone fearssee https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11544082 I wonder what will become of my cynicism.)
What Networks Does BuzzFeed Use? naytev.com
24 points by etr71115  1 hour ago   discuss
Womens coding school Hackbright Academy acquired by Capella Education for $18M recode.net
8 points by robbiet480  1 hour ago   discuss
Functors, Applicatives, and Monads in Plain English russbishop.net
15 points by maxdesiatov  1 hour ago   3 comments top 2
VeejayRampay 9 minutes ago 1 reply      
I've found that trying to simplify things is an impossible thing to do in the programming community (cue to "You're missing the point / You're oversimplifying / This is not what a monad is").

It's a problem that stems from being surrounded by millions of people who take disproportionate pride in the belonging to a savant elite. What I always say to people who ask me to describe programmers: "Programmers are people who like to create metaphors, but who like to correct other people's metaphors even more".

That being said, I feel like I've progressed in my understanding of those concepts by reading the post, so thanks to the author.

bcherny 5 minutes ago 0 replies      
Science fairs are as flawed as my solar-powered hot dog cooker statnews.com
41 points by CrocodileStreet  4 hours ago   33 comments top 9
garrickvanburen 29 minutes ago 0 replies      
My kids' school, to some degree, solved this with "Creativity Fairs". You want to design and sew a dress? Cool. You want to scale up Thor's hammer from action figure size to your size? Cool. You want to recreate Fallingwater in SketchUp? Cool.There were even a few more traditionally science-y projects.

As long as it doesn't include food or live animals - you're cool.

PaulHoule 3 hours ago 4 replies      
It's pretty notorious that science fairs are a venue for "achievement laundering", particularly when you see how many winners are professor's kids, upper upper middle class or otherwise privileged.

The U.S. is starting to get as bad as Heian Japan -- where the obsession of aristocrats on maintaining their privilege meant making a mockery of the Confucian institutions they imported from China.

jerf 1 hour ago 2 replies      
"The only reason Veronica was able to carry out her experiment was that I had the flexibility to spend hours struggling through paperwork, and because I had a social network of scientists Ive developed as a science writer. This was an exercise in privilege."

No, it was an exercise in barriers. Everybody [1] has enough "privilege" to do this experiment, by which I mean the experiment itself without the "fair" elements, with little more than a slightly-interested science teacher. They just aren't allowed to do it by the science fair. Being able to speak with "actual" scientists about counting bacteria is at most a slight bonus; it is not necessary to the process, learning about it by reading would be a fine education on its own, and even failing at the process would be educational in its own way, as the author describes in his own experiences. (Science fairs have a major role to play in the pernicious idea that science is only "successful" when it obtains the positive result the experimenter was looking for... but that's a separate rant.)

This isn't someone being born with silver spoons in their mouth. This is regulation thoughtlessly applied with no thought about the costs. If "privilege" issues were as easy as just removing some regulation, we probably wouldn't be talking about it so much.

[1]: Everyone plausibly within the scope of this article, anyhow, which is places that have science fairs at all. That would be a separate issue.

dzdt 3 hours ago 7 replies      
Why in the world does an experiment to try to culture mouth bacteria from a toothbrush require extensive paperwork and professional oversight?
koolba 31 minutes ago 1 reply      
> There will be kids showing off homemade spacecraft, Ebola test kits, and environmentally safe batteries.

Homemade spacecraft - okay we've all had fantasies of doing this and depending on how far you've gone with it the primary material starts off with sofa cushions or cardboard. The sky is limit (no pun intended) for ideas on it. Environmentally safe batteries- okay there's a lot of room for this one too (potatoes come to mind).

Not sure about the last one though. How does a child develop an Ebola test kit?!

"Dad can you get me some Ebola ... it's for a science fair project!"

sndean 29 minutes ago 0 replies      
Somewhat related: Something that I've noticed when helping extremely bright kids in science fairs: If they're motivated, and there's a pair of them who are friends, then I'm essentially useless and getting in the way. That's happened multiple times (getting to the semi-finals/finals of Google, Siemens, etc.) with pairs.

When they're alone then it doesn't workout so well.

nraynaud 2 hours ago 0 replies      
Wait, did I skip the sentence with the answer? What's the best cleanup product?
paulhart 1 hour ago 0 replies      
Read the comment posted by Lauren - it's the best thing on that page.
chris_wot 3 hours ago 2 replies      
I love solar powered hot dog cookers!
Continuous Deployment with Helm, Deis Workflow, and Wercker deis.com
32 points by rimusz  3 hours ago   1 comment top
bastijn 54 minutes ago 0 replies      
Can anyone explain if this is just an alternate approach to options as circleCI (https://circleci.com/docs/docker/) and similar, or an improved approach?
Scientists can now make lithium-ion batteries last a lifetime computerworld.com
79 points by janvdberg  6 hours ago   23 comments top 4
steffenfrost 9 minutes ago 1 reply      
Lifetime cycles are an issue for Li-ion batteries.

For example, lets look at the Tesla Powerwall numbers. The Powerwall warranty covers 85% of capacity with 740 cycles in the first two years -- whichever comes first. Then it covers 66% capacity with 1,087 cycles in three years, and finally, it covers 54% of capacity for 2,368 cycles in five years. http://www.greentechmedia.com/articles/read/is-teslas-powerw...

Running the numbers for the Powerwall, 85%, 66%, and 54% of 7kWh is 5.4, 4.6, and 3.8kWh respectively.

(740cycles x 5.4kWh) + (1087cycles x 4.6kWh) + (2368cycles x 3.8kWh) = 17994.6kWh

Thus the cost per kWh stored is

$3000/17994.6kWh = 16.7 cents/kWh.

Not included is the shipping and installation cost, which could add another $300 - $500, which would run

$3300/17994.6kWh = 18.3 cent/kWh.

Imagenuity 5 minutes ago 0 replies      
Last night an article from popsci.com was posted that covers the same news

UCI Researchers Accidentally Make Batteries Last 400 Times Longer



ngrilly 5 hours ago 4 replies      
Can somebody skilled in chemistry confirm the article's claim? Because if it is true, then this is a technical revolution. In most devices I own, the battery is usually the only thing that I need to replace at some point (which is especially unpleasant with Apple devices).
tracker1 2 hours ago 0 replies      
Now if they can only make them work in multiple devices... What good is a "lifetime" battery for a device that's no longer used in 3-5 years.
A Marriage Gone Bad: Walgreens Struggles to Shake Off Theranos nytimes.com
117 points by dbcooper  8 hours ago   104 comments top 14
lingben 6 hours ago 3 replies      
thoroughly disappointed in the Shriver interview, didn't ask any hard questions, didn't redirect after her answers, didn't really seem like she was at all fully informed about Theranos

now if John Carreyrou had been conducting the interview, that would be another thing but I get the feeling that he would never be granted an interview simply because he is much more qualified in terms of competency in Theranos and its history and science relative to Shriver that they would see him as a threat

Shriver on the other hand probably came across as a 'safe' interview to the company, which it was

real journalism is so hard to find these days, sigh

"Journalism is printing what someone else does not want printed: everything else is public relations."George Orwell

hunvreus 3 hours ago 2 replies      
I can't help but notice that Ms Holmes is now wearing a hair loose and a shirt. Having only ever seen her with hair tied and black turtle necks, I'm wondering if this is an attempt at softening her image in the midst of a deluge of bad publicity.

Not an ad hominem or personal attack, purely curiosity.

stanfordkid 4 hours ago 1 reply      
I've been calling this for ages since I saw Elizabeth Holmes speak at the Entrepreneurial Thought Leaders seminar at Stanford 5 or 6 years ago. Huge vision, entitled dismissal of incumbents, and a story that is just a little bit too perfect. Following your dreams is cool, but only when they aren't delusions.
doctorcroc 7 hours ago 0 replies      
Unfortunate that Theranos didn't live up to expectations. Bill Gurley writes that the expose on Theranos may have been the seminal moment causing reality to kick in for this tech cycle: http://abovethecrowd.com/2016/04/21/on-the-road-to-recap/

So in a way, it can be seen as a good and necessary thing that expectations are brought back to match reality.

Aelinsaar 7 hours ago 0 replies      
I keep waiting for Theranos to loudly and messily implode, in a shower of subpoenas and people fleeing the country.
pcurve 7 hours ago 4 replies      
Test accuracy aside, isn't finger prick blood draw painful? I've had blood drawn both ways, and finger prick is very unpleasant. I'll pick arm blood draw any day.
mc32 6 hours ago 2 replies      
One would think Walgreens would have done some due diligence when partnering with anyone. Wouldn't they put someone providing healthcare diagnostics services through rigorous testing to see if they could deliver on promises? I'm hoping they don't take providers' word when they partner with providers.

Or is Walgreens just trying to get from under the weight of theranos's bad publicity at this point?

mcnamaratw 6 hours ago 0 replies      
So the not-too-subtle suggestion in the article is that maybe Walgreens might not be struggling too hard to shake off Theranos, because W owns a piece of the unicorn. Which isn't worth much if it ends up in the meat freezer.

(I have no idea whether that suggestion is accurate.)

a3n 6 hours ago 1 reply      
I have to wonder why the board of directors didn't, you know, direct. In an ideal world this would damage their reputation as directors with future companies. But not today.
wehadfun 2 hours ago 1 reply      
Why so much negative press about a diagnostic company? Most people would struggle to name 1 of these save for having to get a drug test or something. It just seems odd. Like some sort of vendeta to crush this company.
smaili 4 hours ago 0 replies      

Walgreens appears to have taken a cautious approach toward terminating the relationship, perhaps preferring to wait until federal regulators impose penalties or the criminal investigation yields formal charges, either of which would strengthen Walgreenss hand.

Essentially, Walgreens is playing the wait-and-see game before making their decision.

zwieback 7 hours ago 5 replies      
I wonder, is this good or bad for other startups in the diagnostics space?
raverbashing 5 hours ago 2 replies      
I believe all prick exams need some level of squeezing ( did one a couple of weeks ago, giving a couple of samples from the same prick) it didn't hurt too much though
1024core 7 hours ago 7 replies      
A part of me feels sad for Theranos. I wanted them and Elizabeth to succeed; more the latter, actually. If she had succeeded (I still hold out hope), she would have been a terrific role model for young women everywhere.
Cilk Plus/LLVM: Intel Cilk Plus C/C++ Language Extensions in LLVM cilkplus.github.io
47 points by nkurz  5 hours ago   11 comments top 3
nkurz 5 hours ago 0 replies      
Cilk Plus is an Intel language extension for expressing parallelism in C and C++: https://www.cilkplus.org

Mostly it's supported by Intel's ICC and ICPC compilers, but I was interested to see that it's been ported to LLVM.

There's a parallel project for GCC as well: https://www.cilkplus.org/build-gcc-cilkplus

valarauca1 5 hours ago 4 replies      
So does this attempt to better utilize the multiple compute units which make up a single compute pipeline? For example Skylake technically has 4 FPU's per physical core 1 SIMD, 3 x87 FPU-esque units, 1 branch processors, and 3-4ish IPU's (branch processors have some IPU uOPs)?

Or is it just a compiler integrated green thread library?

The FAQ is really vague just says its makes interfacing with parallelism easier.

DannyBee 5 hours ago 1 reply      
"The Intel Cilk Plus runtime library is distributed under a BSD 3-Clause license.


Enjoy having to put attribution in literally every Cilk binary you distribute :P

The Arctic Suicides: It's Not the Dark That Kills You npr.org
215 points by pmcpinto  12 hours ago   92 comments top 16
exDM69 11 hours ago 7 replies      
I live 60 degrees northern latitude in a country with bad suicide statistics and the winters do get pretty harsh on you mentally. And there's still millions of people living norther than I do.

Highest suicide rates occur during the spring, around the vernal equinox not around the darkest time of the year. If you've never experienced the northern spring where each day is 10+ minutes longer than the previous, you'll never understand it. It just fucks up your mind in ways that are hard to describe.

My kitchen psychology thinks the high suicide rates in the spring may be related to the fact that people around you start to get more positive and active (some too much so) but if you're suffering from a bad depression, seeing that around you will make it worse.

It's not just suicides that peak. It also affects breakup/divorce rates as well as forming new relationships. It probably affects professional careers too, but I don't know if there are stats about it.

The long, dark winters and the rapid change that follows brings out some very primal sides. That being said, I'd recommend travel to the extreme latitudes around the solstices, both of them.

side note: we have about 15 hour long days at the moment. It's still pretty dark at night but I can't wait for the summer when you can see the sunset and sunrise at the same time if you look to the north at around midnight... it's magical.

julianpye 11 hours ago 3 replies      
I love, love, love Greenland. Best place I have ever been to. When I was spending time in Tasiilaq, I was told that the breakdown happened because of the fallout from the Greenpeace activities against seal clubbing in Canada. This destroyed the market for fur products and led to social welfare from Denmark and alcoholism.

Anyway, when in Greenland it is politically correct to eat seal and whale, once you find out how they are hunted and how the population cherishes the animals.

The coolest thing about Greenland was that the museums had no tools for warfare. Conflicts between people in Greenland were carried out by people playing drums and 'rapping' their cause in a song duel. If you had the laughs and opinions on your side, the person who 'lost' received sled dogs and food and was let go. I wish this could be used for all conflicts around the world.

sevenless 8 hours ago 4 replies      
The section talking about contagion was interesting. What follows is pure speculation on my part and a bit of a ramble.

I believe many mental illnesses, depression, suicidal behavior and anorexia among them, can be characterized as contagious. And perhaps some other things that aren't usually described as mental illnesses. The border between belief, religion and mental illness seems a bit fuzzy (echoes of Snow Crash). Small isolated communities must be much more susceptible to contagion taking hold, as single events have a great sway over perceptions, and there are few connections with a larger world to normalize things.

Charles Stross said something about the internet that stuck with me: "the accidental invention of telepathy". Just like public water supplies opened up new vectors for diseases such as cholera, I wonder if the internet's ability to more or less put minds directly in touch can facilitate the spread of certain mental illnesses. Consuming unfiltered internet might be looked on in a few years like drinking unsterilized water. In particular, I wonder if certain "echo chamber" social websites that allow easy isolation from mainstream opinion (Tumblr and 4chan, I'm looking at you) might be analogous to these dangerous isolated communities.

wille92 7 hours ago 4 replies      
Whenever I read about tribal communities coming into modernity, I can't help but think that our "first-world" culture gets a lot wrong. These communities seem to have a deep sense of narrative--you're a part of a greater cultural story, a spiritual story that's connected with place, nature, and family. There is a journey laid out for you rich with sacrament (e.g. the rite of passage to become an Inuit hunter in this article). I can't help but feel that the modern world has lost this purposeful way of life. In the modern world, we're really left up to our own devices to figure out where we fit in and what we find meaningful. Would love to hear other's thoughts.
dirktheman 12 hours ago 5 replies      
Fascinating long read, which gives a lot of insight in the struggles of daily life in these remote parts of our world.

And no, it's not just the dark that makes people commit suicide. Of the top 10 countries with the highest suicide rates, only Lithuania can be considered as having a somewhat gloomy winter. The rest of the countries all get more sunlight (Guyana, Suriname and Sri Lanka for instance) than the countries generally accepted as happiest in the world: Denmark (ironically, considering the story), Switzerland, Iceland and Norway.

gumby 5 hours ago 2 replies      
I was struck by the comment by the woman who answered the suicide line: "Maybe I am giving them a little love."

I spent years answering the phone on a crisis line. Some people's problems just didn't seem that bad, yet they were overwhelmed nonetheless. Some people had such crushing burdens I was astonished they could even talk.

I didn't find it uplifting, in fact it drained me. I am astonished by her ability to do it for almost 20 years. I guess it was a form of catharsis for her as well.

e12e 5 hours ago 0 replies      
As someone who grew up in Troms, Norway (69 degrees northern latitude), I've always found the idea that long winters and depression go together a strange one (That's not to say there aren't a lot of people in Troms that struggle with sleep[1], or that there are no winter depressions).

As a counterpoint to this article's title (but not content, really), there was an interesting piece a while back about seasons and psyche:


TL;DR: Mindset matters. If you don't like winter, then a long dark winter isn't much fun: "The survey results indicated that wintertime mindset may indeed play a role in mental health and well-being in Norway. The Wintertime Mindset Scale had strong positive correlations with every measure of well-being we examined, including the Satisfaction with Life Scale (a widely used survey that measures general life satisfaction), and the Personal Growth Composite (a scale that measures openness to new challenges). The people who had a positive wintertime mindset, in other words, tended to be the same people who were highly satisfied with their lives and who pursued personal growth."

[1] On a somewhat related note, I highly recommend the Norwegian original film "Insomnia" (the basis for the American remake with Al Pacino): http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0119375/

cperciva 11 hours ago 2 replies      
When I saw the title I thought this was going to be about Canada. Suicide rates are extremely high in some aboriginal communities; in Attawapiskat for example, 5% of the residents have attempted suicide in the past year.

And I can't say that I really blame them. Attawapiskat is an extremely isolated community, with few jobs and no amenities. Kids growing up in Attawapiskat have nothing to look forward to. Those who leave the community have much lower rates of suicide, but given the memories of children being taken away from their families and forced into abusive residential schools, no politician in their right mind would dare to suggest that as an option. So they live out their lives in miserable isolation, waiting for their boredom to end; and some decide to speed along the process.

andrewguenther 6 hours ago 0 replies      
If you haven't read "The Tipping Point," it also talks about this same issue and is all around a great read.


brianzelip 9 hours ago 0 replies      
Didn't read past them hopping in a boat w rifles, but the novel 'From the Mouth of the Whale' by Icelandic author Sjn is a serious dive into an Arctic psyche. Highly recommended.


Overtonwindow 8 hours ago 0 replies      
This reminds me so much of Native American communities in America. Loss of culture, feelings of no hope, no jobs, no opportunities, it's one of the worst feelings to have. When there's nothing else to do, and no hope of things getting better, suicide seems like the easy option.

Very good article.

stared 8 hours ago 0 replies      
Just by looking at the title it brought to my mind "The Thing". ;)

See also this trailer, which I like a lot: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vwNoqgg474s not the original movie, not the remake - but a StarCraft 2 mod allowing to play a mafia/werewolf-style game).

golemotron 9 hours ago 0 replies      
If you want to cut through the fluff search for "Why?" in the text of the article. More articles should do this.
misalyogeshwar 6 hours ago 0 replies      
I can't imagine how much hard work needed to put this story out to people...great journalism.. Also I wish situation in greenland improves in futurw...
Kristine1975 11 hours ago 0 replies      
The novel "Smilla's Sense of Snow" by Peter Heg is in large part about the alienation and culture shock of an Inuit woman in Denmark.

P.S: I like the article's side bar about responsible reporting on suicide. That's forgotten far too often in the rush for gripping headlines and clicks.

romanovcode 11 hours ago 4 replies      
This is wrong and have nothing to do with "successful white people" and quite frankly your remark is racist.

Their ancestors were hunters and this gave them purpose in life as well as good diet which led to much happier life. Now they have nothing to do except watch TV and sit on their couch and eat bad food. Of course they are unhappy, you would be too.

Apple Services Shut Down in China in Startling About-Face nytimes.com
69 points by jboydyhacker  6 hours ago   47 comments top 9
3pt14159 6 hours ago 8 replies      
China has to play fairly carefully with Apple. On the one hand it's an American company that puts microphones and cameras into the cafes, offices, and bedrooms of many of their citizenry; but on the other hand, with decreasing competitiveness due to rising wages there isn't anything specifically _stopping_ Apple or other American tech companies from moving manufacturing out of China. Foxconn alone employs about 4.3 million people, and while it would be very difficult to move operations to Tiawan, Singapore, Japan, or even the United States; it would also provide a number of benefits since any new hosting country would very incentivized to make the move happen.
bjshepard 4 hours ago 1 reply      
A key sentence from the BBC article on the topic: "The strict rules are also seen as a way to foster the success of indigenous net Chinese firms such as Huawei, Alibaba and Tencent."
bickfordb 1 hour ago 0 replies      
I'm curious how China is able to do this and belong to the WTO?
codecamper 3 hours ago 1 reply      
I think as the technical part of the population, we have the opportunity now to greatly change the structure of the world.

Government can be largely replaced by software. (just thinking long term here)

Democracy can be more pure. Corruption can be controlled. Economies can be stabilized and better planned. Environmental resources can be better managed.

We've got a lot more work to do past sharing images & allowing chats (though look at the massive affect of just those things)

xbmcuser 39 minutes ago 0 replies      
Will they put the same restrictions on Ios apps. No one has been able to make Apple open its hardware to non appstore apps. Would be interesting if in the future they ask for that as well.
xigency 4 hours ago 1 reply      
It shouldn't be too surprising with China's history of censorship that they would ban iTunes from selling books and movies to their citizens. What's surprising is that they apparently allowed it for several months.
bnolsen 4 hours ago 1 reply      
and this is a reason why china with the current government can never truly be a world leader in anything: Your entire enterprise can be distroyed at the whim of a few unrestrained individuals. Sort of like apple's app store, but at a much bigger level.
coldcode 4 hours ago 1 reply      
Apparently there was a movie that China didn't approve available on iTunes that might have triggered the stoppage.
sachinag 3 hours ago 0 replies      
There's a huge difference between iCloud not working and the content sale restrictions that this is. This is irritating but not key for Apple - but if iCloud and activation for iPhones and iPads stopped working, that would really be a big deal.

China doesn't want to be a dumping ground for western media, and they're rightfully concerned about not being able to build a content export industry.

Checklistomania makes it easy to keep track of relative tasks gsa.gov
98 points by hugs  8 hours ago   32 comments top 11
nathantotten 1 hour ago 0 replies      
In case you want to quickly try out your own version. I created a fork that uses Auth0 for authentication so you can use any identity provider plus it has a deploy to heroku button. You can try it out here:


ArnoldP 7 hours ago 3 replies      
It isn't clear from the description, but does this allow you to have tasks become 'triggered' for lack of a better term once a task has been completed? eg I want my task list in the morning to say make eggs and bacon, then once I've done that a new task pops up for me to do the dishes.
jawns 6 hours ago 3 replies      
"When a new hire joins the federal government, existing employees complete over 60 tasks to bring them on board."

"This is particularly useful in government, because we need to complete quite a few training sessions and pieces of paperwork."

I can see the value in building a tool to track all of the moving pieces in what appears to be a bureaucratic, inefficient system ... but I would love to see more work put into resolving those inefficiencies.

Can any of those tasks be automated?

Is there any way to reduce the amount of paperwork required?

Can the training sessions be replaced with online tutorials?


zhynn 1 hour ago 2 replies      
After running a local version, I thought I would add some notes about my experience:

- This seemed really cool since we have various processes and this would let us both document and operationalize the processes. Things like: add/change user permissions or create a new vm/container, etc. We could make it easy to show where documentation is and what should be updated.

- Installation is simple, but it is hardcoded to authenticate against Github and look and see if you are a member of the 18F group. If not, you are refused access. Changing the group is just a simple edit to the app.js file, but changing authentication from Github to another source would require adding another passport config file into api/ (as far as I can tell), and possibly additional dev.

- The checklists are all json files, there's no UI for creating the checklist. In fact, there's no CRUD for checklists at all, they are flatfile managed with a text editor. This is not ideal, but building an editor might not be too rough. The main thing is that checklist creation is a developer operation.

- There is no UI for associating checklists with role/users or grouping the checklists. Everyone sees all of the checklists and then self-selects which checklist they want to add to their plate. It looks like the tasks are all user-specific, so you couldn't have a checklist that was divided up amongst a team, it is all single-user focused. I suppose you could create a dummy team user that multiple people had access to, but that seems icky. Similarly, while you can see other user's tasks, you can't take one of their tasks and help them out by doing it.

- There's no context for the tasks. If you had two new employees or two VMs to provision, you would have to do them one at a time. Adding a second checklist while you have a first in progress just gives you a pile of duplicated tasks that have no context as to which initial action they are related to. You can add a note to the initial checklist assignment like "SE3: Jane Doe" which will give some context for that assignment, but I don't see where that is related to the tasks. If the tasklist showed "Checklist Name - Checklist Note" in the table, then at least you could keep them separate.

Otherwise, I would love for this to work. I am in academia where we have two problems that this impacts: 1) we have lots of bureaucracy 2) we have lots of turnover in IT staff because we pay poorly. For both of these reasons, having a checklist tool would be fantastic.

Devs: please comment!

lcall 4 hours ago 0 replies      
FWIW, a related product, more general but less mature (I'm the author): http://onemodel.org/ (AGPL). Highly efficient at managing lists but doesn't yet share data between accounts except by exporting the data as txt or html. I use it heavily, daily, to manage checklists/tasks and notes on many subjects.

I see it as the beginning of a platform to change how individuals (or mankind) manage knowledge overall. Future features involve exploiting the internals for collaboration (linking instances, sharing data, subscribing to each others' data, mobile, etc)

Feedback or participation are appreciated. If one has any interest at all, I suggest signing up for the (~monthly?) announcements list at least.

trestletech 1 hour ago 1 reply      
My tax dollars paid for 94% test coverage??
cuchoi 7 hours ago 1 reply      
Is this easy to deploy in your own shared server such as GoDaddy and HostGator?
xigency 4 hours ago 0 replies      
Don't forget about TopChart.io (YC) and Trello, two other very easy ways to make checklists.
soyiuz 5 hours ago 0 replies      
I hope something like that can be used in medical applications.
jcoffland 5 hours ago 5 replies      
"When a new hire joins the federal government, existing employees complete over 60 tasks to bring them on board"

They sound down right proud of their bureaucracy.

xigency 7 hours ago 1 reply      
Not far different from the name of our list tracker - http://youresam.team-duck.com/listomania/
Bangladesh Bank exposed to hackers by cheap switches, no firewall reuters.com
52 points by r0h1n  6 hours ago   16 comments top 6
dboreham 4 hours ago 2 replies      
This article states that the systems related to SWIFT transfers were supposed to be on an isolated network, but were not. Specifically that cheap unmanaged switches were used rather than expensive managed switches that would have allowed network isolation. Of course anyone who understands network security would point out that to rely on switch-based isolation alone is too risky. Switches can be compromised and mis-configured and sometimes don't provide the expected level of isolation even when correctly configured.
walrus01 19 minutes ago 1 reply      
This is totally unsurprising to anyone that has seen in person the state of "enterprise" IT at a large organization in India, Pakistan or Bangladesh.
nickpsecurity 1 hour ago 1 reply      
I have a feeling, but not evidence, that this bank's security was this bad on purpose to aid the thieves. Someone in the middle or on top might be getting a cut. Has anyone looked into that angle?

And does anyone have an I.P. address to another Bangladesh bank with $10 routers and stuff on SWIFT network? Just so I can try to SMTP a warning to that address to help them avoid being hit, too.

ajonit 3 hours ago 1 reply      
"Most of the payments were blocked but $81 million was routed to accounts in the Philippines "Given that in most of the countries "Know Your Customer" (or its variations) is strictly followed, I wonder what makes it so difficult for multi nation police( involving interpol) to reverse track the hacker - from money receiving accounts -> account holders -> beating the st out of them to reveal senders name.
koolba 4 hours ago 1 reply      
Short of building/installing your own router how can a highly sensitive business protect themselves from things like this? Obviously you don't want to be running random vulnerable hardware that is never updated. But what else?

I was thinking about having multiple layers (security loves onions!) with interchangeably components that you roll over at random. That way any given attack vector at one point might be mitigated by a different interface below it. Literally unplugging and plugging things in to shake things up.

nraynaud 3 hours ago 2 replies      
I don't feel comfortable attacking such a poor country on the prince of their networking gear.
Amazon blocks non-Prime members from buying certain video games videogamer.com
104 points by tomtoise  5 hours ago   93 comments top 24
jerf 5 hours ago 4 replies      
I don't get it. As an incentive to sign up for Prime it makes no sense; Prime needs to offer me things I can't get elsewhere (or at least not for the same price), not return to me things that I can easily get elsewhere. I just spot-checked Amazon US's price for GTA 5, 39.88 [1], and it's the exact same price at Wal-Mart [2], so it's not an exclusive deal or something. (Nor did I spend several minutes hunting for a comparable price; it was the third hit on Google for "Grand Theft Auto 5 PS4" for me. Google being what it is now, YMMV.)

I don't mean "this is a bad idea". I mean "I don't get it". What's the point?

[1]: http://www.amazon.com/Grand-Theft-Auto-V-PlayStation-4/dp/B0...

[2]: http://www.walmart.com/ip/Grand-Theft-Auto-V-PS4/41049186

mikeash 4 hours ago 3 replies      
Amazon put a lot of effort over the years into establishing themselves as the best place to buy nearly everything online. Now they seem bound and determined to throw that title away. Between rising prices, add-on items, confusing marketplace sellers, a refusal to sell certain products that compete with Amazon branded products, and now this ridiculous Prime tie-in, I find it more and more difficult to find a reason to buy stuff from them.
gdulli 5 hours ago 2 replies      
Ever since there started being discounts for Prime-only members I knew it was the beginning of the end of my using Amazon.

My last online order was with Walgreens. I never tried them before but I googled for the product I had in my Amazon cart, it was cheaper at Walgreens, I added a few things to get up to $35 for free shipping, those things were also cheaper than on Amazon. I got the delivery faster than my last few free standard shipping orders with Amazon.

For a long time Amazon was the "default" in my mind for shopping online and I see now there's no reason it should be that way anymore.

__david__ 5 hours ago 1 reply      
This is a weird move. I think if I didn't already have prime, I'd just go somewhere else rather than be motivated to subscribe. Hopefully this is just an experimentI suspect this is ultimately going to be self defeating.
CM30 4 hours ago 3 replies      
Wait, what? This is ridiculous. Amazon is a shop first and foremost, and this is exactly the sort of thing that I'll drive me to other alternatives.

It's especially silly for games, where the console manufacturers offer their own stores (both for digital and physical copies of the games). Heck, if you're buying them digital, it's about as little friction as using Amazon, since they have your payment details from other online services you use through the system (like Xbox Live).

potatolicious 5 hours ago 5 replies      
This seems oddly customer-hostile, which is something I've grown to expect from tech companies but not Amazon in specific.

One can't help but wonder if the damage this does to the brand outweighs the strategic gains through Prime subscriptions. After all, selection and availability is a huge part of Amazon's secret sauce to success, more so than customer service, shipping speed, or any other concern.

If customers lose the ability to assume that they can get anything on Amazon, it's hugely damaging to the brand.

pyb 2 hours ago 0 replies      
I've also noticed Amazon now uses dark patterns to try and force buyers to sign up for Prime.The current strategy is clearly to pressure users into signing up Prime by absolutely any means available.
thieving_magpie 23 minutes ago 0 replies      
In Bezos 2016 Investor Letter, I didn't think "We want Prime to be such a good value, youd be irresponsible not to be a member." meant this.
raverbashing 5 hours ago 1 reply      
To be honest people shouldn't be complaining they can't get it from Amazon, but getting it from someone else

It's that simple

justinlardinois 4 hours ago 0 replies      
As someone who buys video games on Amazon relatively often and isn't a Prime member, this is nothing new. Every now and then a game will drop in price a bit but be Prime Exclusive, and then a week or two later it will go back to its original price and be available to everyone again. It's mildly annoying, but I think this article makes it sound like a much bigger deal than it is.
Cozumel 4 hours ago 1 reply      
Only seems to be the US site, at least for now!It really makes no sense though!


akeck 1 hour ago 0 replies      
They are doing this with physical CDs as well. For a recent album, I could buy the MP3 version, but I could not buy the CD without a Prime membership.
spo81rty 5 hours ago 2 replies      
Maybe they are doing this on some very low margin products? Are brand new video games low margin?
Yabood 3 hours ago 0 replies      
They actually do the same thing with other items as well. I was trying to buy a Dell monitor the other day, and it was reserved for Prime members only.
kdamken 2 hours ago 3 replies      
So does anyone have a less crappy alternative to Amazon? After canceling my prime membership this year it's gotten even worse trying to use them. Their shipping fees for non-prime users are insane.
mkhalil 4 hours ago 0 replies      
My assumption is if they had enough Prime members buying these exclusive titles they could probably just sell at cost from day 1, therefore driving more traffic to their website. This would obviously hurt local game stores considering they could never do that without a "membership". Although, some stores like BestBuy already do this sort of thing.
awinter-py 5 hours ago 1 reply      
Weird but not surprising -- not that different from HBO / netflix negotiating exclusive streaming rights to content. Spotify and youtube's 'deal' departments are more important (and more controversial) than their coders / PMs.

If you don't like this, steer clear of strings-attached content platforms.

zzleeper 4 hours ago 2 replies      
Is there a reason for non-console players to even buy in DVD form anymore, instead of Steam or similar markets?

I mean, I get that if you live in Canada or Australia your bandwidth sucks and you have caps, but for most cases download speeds are way faster than DVD shipping speeds.

strathmeyer 3 hours ago 0 replies      
"Become a Patron member for exclusive content!"
bdcravens 2 hours ago 0 replies      
Sounds no different than WalMart/Sam's Club.
dk1138 5 hours ago 0 replies      
I imagine it won't take them many AAA releases to have the numbers to see if this was a good idea or not. I'm fine with Amazon finding more ways to make prime worth it without taking away features from prime members or increasing membership cost.
Filligree 4 hours ago 1 reply      
I can't sign up for Prime. They don't offer it in the country I'm in.

So this amounts to saying that they don't want my money. Very well; there are other options.

pessimizer 3 hours ago 0 replies      
This is another experiment to test their monopoly power (like the conflict with Hachette.) If it's successful, expect it to happen across more product ranges. Their monopoly power is built into their valuation; if they can't make it pay, they will eventually crash.
joesmo 4 hours ago 0 replies      
Still not as bad as when they stole my Prime membership money.
A Protocol for Dying hintjens.com
1342 points by aleksi  16 hours ago   266 comments top 62
bsandert 14 hours ago 2 replies      
From personal experience, I can very much relate to and agree with this piece. My father went through a similar process: cancer (melanoma) two years of treatment and coming to terms with the facts euthanasia. As a family, we have been very matter-of-fact about it, which was definitely something he encouraged and participated in. We frequently talked about all aspects of his disease, the future, how it affected him and us. Sometimes one of us sighed that it would have been so much better if he would have suddenly died in his sleep but I always disagreed with that, it would just have come with a different set of emotions and grieving. I am actually very happy that we were able to share parts of this process with each other while he was still around.

The weekend before his death, our house was filled with people who worked up the courage to come say goodbye, he sat among them in the living room and took a few minutes in person with everyone as much as his state allowed. I sat on his bed as he was treated with euthanasia, which was one of the most intense experiences of my life. I still miss the man every day, but because of the process we had together, I have nothing but fond memories of the times he was still there, including the very hard periods of time that come with a disease like this.

This turned into a bit more text than I intended but my point is this: If you ever have a choice in the way you are to die, take heed of the points in this story. It may seem brutal at times to be as honest and open as you can about such an intimate process, but having gone through it once, I have absolutely no regrets. I wish Pieter and his loved ones all the best in the coming times.

anexprogrammer 11 hours ago 1 reply      
Good journey sir. Thank you for this piece. I feel your model should become an international standard.

I am saddened to see you are so young.

> ... and enforce the barbaric torture of decay and failure. It's especially relevant for cancer, which is a primary cause of death

I'm glad you find yourself somewhere enlightened. As someone who watched his father die of cancer over 2.5-3 years in the UK it almost robbed me of my father for a while. The last six months were brutal. He was either away with the fairies on Morphine, or in his increasingly rare lucid moments, pleading with NHS to reduce his dose. He chose pain and lucidity over a zombie state yet was often denied that choice as the system sought to reduce pain above all. He made it plain when he could, many times during the end months, that he didn't want to play this game any more.

Post death, our memories were of the brutality, of the incoherent husk on drugs who had had enough long since, of the ever increasing dosages and tripping in the system's wish to reduce pain, of the morphine smell. Of being increasingly worn down by it. It was harder in those early weeks after death to remember the real man, so defined by his mind, intelligence, humour and practical jokes. I still miss my best friend.

The UK is no nearer enlightenment on this topic today than 20 years ago when my father died. The views of those claiming a hotline to god, in our increasingly atheistic country, were exceptionally hard to hear, yet always sought in any media discussion of euthanasia.

I am thankful your children and other family will have the blessing of kinder memories.

danburgo 9 hours ago 4 replies      
These words hit close to home. My dad just passed away from cancer/diabetes in Florida and had to endure the "barbaric torture of decay and failure". Basically 4 months suffering in bed until he eventually denied eating anything and his liver failed. I asked the nurses repeatedly if there was anything to help him go or pass and there was nothing. Something's got to change in the US, we treat animals better than humans at the end of life

Thank you for your words

jaseemabid 14 hours ago 3 replies      
To anyone who does not know, Pieter Hintjens is the CEO of iMatix, where they build AMQP, ZMQ etc.

Take care /u/PieterH.

1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pieter_Hintjens2. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=115208883. https://twitter.com/hintjens

sillysaurus3 14 hours ago 1 reply      
I didn't know Pieter before today. He's one of the coolest people I've had the good fortune of coming across:

> My first free software is from 1991. I realized the power of community gradually from 2005 when fighting software patents in Europe. I refined and tested the techniques in the ffii for projects like digistan. I saw the failure of money and power in amqp. In zeromq it took years to find the right patterns. I documented much in culture and empire.

This earned my respect beyond words:

> "There's this experimental cure people are talking about." This gets the ban hammer from me, and happily I only got a few of those. Even if there was a miracle cure, the cost and stress (to others) of seeking it is such a selfish and disproportionate act. With, as we know, lottery-style chances of success. We live, we die.

And this is just awesome: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11521249

"I'm sorry to hear this, Pieter. I don't have a question, but would just like to wish you well"

> Excellent question! (can you tell I'm bored in a hospital)?Well, it all started when I was about three, and I discovered ants. Fire ants, to be specific. Biting me all over cause I'd chosen to hide right on top of their nest. There's a lesson there.

Thanks, Pieter. For everything!


If you'd like to thank Pieter more directly, he's accepting Paypal donations at ph@imatix.com.

> Well this is really kind. Yes, I'm pretty broke and have three young children who will be semi orphans. Cue violins.Happy to receive on PayPal at ph@imatix.com. I will give my family the keys to that so they can put it aside for ma wee bairns... Thanks for suggesting this.

netgusto 14 hours ago 1 reply      
I wanted to express my compassion, then I figured out that's not what you need. But then, we never shared any good moments to speak about, right ? You're a stranger to me, and yet I can't help but feeling I know you better after reading your letter than many people I meet on a regular basis. And it feels warm inside. Thank you for taking the time to express this.
bastijn 3 hours ago 1 reply      
I actually wanted to attend that keynote and now you popup over here. Thought it would be a nice day, some friends / colleagues presenting anyway. Somehow my brain wandered off reading this article thinking what would have happened if you could have presented this blog post as a keynote. How would the audience react, would it differ from this where people have more time to digest it? Definitely some awkward social event afterwards I'd bet.

Only thing I missed in your post is a snappy remark to alternative medicine (not expiremental, mind you); would have made it perfect. That stuff usually conflicts with the actual treatment and even if it doesn't and people survive they say it is because of the alternative junk instead of the actual treatment they conveniently forget to mention they took as well. You know, these sites that claim it's true and proven linking to multiple studies showing it...performed by themselves and published on their own website only.

I wish you the most with the time you have left but have no doubt you will make it count.

Well, one thing left.

This is Bob.

Bob is dying.

Bob doesn't whine or bitch about life being unfair.

Bob is one tough motherf*er.

Be like Bob.




P.s. If you think the stick figure sucks you should see my real drawings.

okreallywtf 3 hours ago 0 replies      
One thing that I observed the year I lost two great uncles (one from one side of the family and six months later one from the other) to cancer was how easy it is for the closest family to get very tied up in the logistics and medical side that people weren't really taking as much time to really talk to them. Granted they weren't considered terminal until close to the end.

As the younger nephew, I didn't feel as much responsibility to be involved with the logistics (it felt more awkward to me but I think it was comforting to the children, spouses etc). So instead of joining in on the doctor/prognosis conversations and later the funeral arrangement/what to do with the house stuff, I just sat and talked to my uncles instead.

I had known both of them my entire life but I realized I knew almost nothing about them. All our interactions were just uncle to nephew, family occasions kind of stuff, but by this time I was an adult (just barely), and all the sudden we were just two people talking and I learned more about them in a 20 minute session than the prior 20+ years. Some other family who were on the periphery of the conversation confided later that they regretted not having those moments while they had the chance. I didn't even talk that much, just enough to make it a two way conversation, but I found my uncles both were very at peace but wanted to reminisce and tell stories they probably hadn't told anyone in decades. One uncle told me about joining the military during Korea and having gone through all the training and finally being sent all the way there to have the war end practically the day he got there and he ended up being sent right back and what a strange conflicted experience it was for him.

I've started visiting with my other elderly family a lot more since then and have had some similar conversations that didn't require anyone being terminally ill, but somehow that seems to make those conversations a little easier.

I can definitely agree with the piece, especially about what to say and what not to. I'm not expert by any means, I just did the only thing that felt natural whatsoever: just talk to them like a person and let what happens happen. Granted I had the benefit of the fact that they were well taken care of by their children and others, otherwise it would have been much more difficult.

dirktheman 12 hours ago 2 replies      
I always like to think that we don't really die, we live on in the memories of our loved ones. Even if you don't leave a massive legacy behind like you. When I think back of the good moments with my grandparents I'm not sad, I'm happy I got the chance to have experienced them in the first place.

Thank you Pieter, and godspeed on your big journey, whereever it will take you.

tjholowaychuk 13 hours ago 0 replies      
Wow this really hits home. I can only hope that when it's my time that I can go with such class and dignity. My only fear in dying is that I would regret having not lived more, spent more time on things that really matter, or being held back by myself.

I couldn't agree more about euthanasia, I've always envisioned a Dia de los Muertos style party for when I go :). I would much rather go when people have a chance to see me happy and reminiscing like you mention. I would say thank you for your work, but I know there's much more to you than that!

Angostura 10 hours ago 1 reply      
Well, that's embarrassing - I just started weeping in the office. Probably because my own father has been diagnosed with cancer (in his 90s though, ripe old age) and we are both pretty much following the communication guidelines set out in the article.

Thanks for posting and thanks to Pieter for writing.

libeclipse 14 hours ago 0 replies      
Wow, that hit me harder than expected. It's rare to see someone talking so frankly about death, and even rarer for something like this to be on the front page.

What a legend.

emirozer 15 hours ago 1 reply      
Pieter, in the article you wrote "Think of the Children" and wanted readers to write stories, which is a really nice idea.. How about we think of the children and donate some money? Is it possible to share a donation address/endpoint ?
fiatjaf 7 hours ago 0 replies      
I must say that the cable joke https://twitter.com/hintjens/status/722315427200765952 was great.
bcg1 9 hours ago 1 reply      
The first time I came across Pieter was when he was interviewed about ZeroMQ on FLOSS weekly. I've come to find his writing to be engaging and informative, and thank him for that.

His series of articles on psychopaths and the havoc they wreak is well worth reading, even if it takes a while to take it all in.

My best lesson I learned on programming from Pieter was to use code generators effectively. The advantages cannot be overstated.

Thank you Pieter, you will be missed.

jimduk 14 hours ago 1 reply      
Some Hintjens' quotes -

i) "One tactic I used was to take the cult techniques and reverse them"

ii) "We create culture by sharing" (extends to a successful project being a culture, a share-alike licence, and a name/domain which of course can be forked)

There are many others - his writing introduced me to Conway's law (was b) - "A software system mimics the structure of the organization that produces it ") - I've only read part of his work, time well spent and good to discuss with programmers and non-programmers - he made me think

srameshc 9 hours ago 0 replies      
Been a fan of Pieter Hintjens since 2010 when I found ZeroMQ and read that ZMQ guide which was the most easy to read and fun technical guide that I read ever. I tweeted and he replied back, and I was startstruck by a tech superstar. He was always fun to follow and I remember one of his tweets where he says we don't even need fruit sugar, though I never followed that advice :) As graceful as ever. Godspeed Pieter.
yoodenvranx 13 hours ago 0 replies      
And this is exactly why euthanasia should be made legal everywhere.

If I ever have to die of some horrible disease I want to go on my terms and do exactly like op.

gerbilly 7 hours ago 0 replies      
It's wonderful to see someone approaching death with such a calm and balanced state of mind.

May your wisdom and compassion live on in your children and in all the other people you have influenced.

lemonade 6 hours ago 2 replies      
Hi Pieter,

I'm not sure how long you'll keep on reading stuff, but rest assured me and many others will cherish the very fond memories of collaborating with you - you've always had a sharp wit and a practical sort of unconventionalism that gets things done. We have much to thank you for.

We worked together on Digistan and the "The Hague Declaration", which I helped host in The Hague - and I think it still is a strong statement that is worth repeating. People can sign that declaration:


I'm very much saddened to hear about your disease - and deep respect for the way you handle this unannounced change of plan. I hope your remaining time will be spent with those you love looking back on a rich life where you've left the world better than it is - and got the max out of it. I'll send you an email, so that when your kids are older and want to know about the things you've done they can contact me. Take care, my friend.

davesque 5 hours ago 0 replies      
Pretty sobering stuff. I watched my mother die of cancer about a year ago. Sitting next to her, as she moved back and forth in bed, incoherent, was....well...pretty surreal. Honestly, I don't get this world we live in. We pop in from nowhere and then live in fear of popping out in an untimely way. I kinda get where this man is coming from. A lot of cancer therapy just seems like such a long-shot. And it's your life on the line (including your sanity). Bouncing around from doctor to doctor, treatment to treatment is enough to break people. I mean totally break people. Financially and spiritually. It didn't break my Mom. She always had hope actually and never wanted to die. But I think it would break me.
aliostad 12 hours ago 0 replies      
For those who had the opportunity and pleasure of meeting you personally, the day the news broke out was a black day. You are a person who makes a deep impression, your thoughtfulness and very balanced view and how you articulate them. I now read your writings and find them even more compelling: sharp observation and bravery to spell the truth out.

Death is coming to all of us. We all die. Death of some, however, will be a big loss. You, sir, are among them.

jkarneges 14 hours ago 0 replies      
I've never known anyone who knew their death was imminent, and it pains me to see cancer strike another beloved member of the tech community, but I am fascinated by how Pieter is handling his situation. Delegating his tasks away, being frank about his condition and its progress, and now this protocol article. Even though his life is being cut way short, it almost seems as if he has extra time to get his ducks in a row and share wisdom. Many others die suddenly or after losing mental faculties and don't quite have the same opportunity.
augustl 13 hours ago 2 replies      
It would be interesting to see how many of us that has had conversations with Pieter Hintjens. I suspect a sizable chunk of the HN crowd has interacted with him. I've enjoyed his company on many conferences, and while he presents himself in a very direct manner, he is also friendly and enjoyable to talk with.
skylan_q 3 hours ago 0 replies      
Some other reading on the topic for those who are interested: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ars_moriendi"The Art of Dying"
domrdy 11 hours ago 1 reply      
Great article, thanks for sharing this. I have a question: how would you tell your so to "move on" after you are gone? Was this even brought up ? I'd imagine this to be a very difficult, yet necessary conversation to have.
porjo 14 hours ago 0 replies      
I've seen Pieter speak both in person and on video and it's hard not be impressed by his conviction and passion. Clearly a very clever guy with a lot of interesting ideas. Quite a polarizing character by all reports, but one that has made a significant contribution to the open source community nonetheless.

Godspeed Pieter.

ascotan 13 hours ago 1 reply      
Another sad day for the software community. I'm a big fan of 0mq and the work that Pieter has done.

As for the euthanasia, my wife's aunt died of cervical cancer and it was very rough, not only on her, but on her entire family. It's not an exaggeration to say that they likely all have PTSD from the experience. I'm not a proponent of euthanasia but I can see the appeal. It probably depends a lot on the individual situation.

paulsutter 13 hours ago 0 replies      
Pieter came to work with us on a project in San Francisco and I'm so happy that I could find this post through hacker news so soon after he posted it. I don't know if he will get my email but I'm glad I had a chance to send it.
jsingleton 9 hours ago 0 replies      
I can highly recommend "Culture & Empire - Digital Revolution", a very interesting read.

I think this is a great request: "Find a moment in your own jurisdiction, if it bans euthanasia, to lobby for the right to die in dignity."

weixiyen 14 hours ago 0 replies      
The level of courage and calmness it takes to write something like so soon after the news he just got. Dude is top fucking percentage.
jwildeboer 6 hours ago 0 replies      
Best thing I ever created with Pieter was stallmanism.com a few years ago. And the beers we drank over the years discussing a wide range of topics while typically being surrounded by people that started to shake heads after a few minutes of listening in. Moments that will survive everything. Thank you, Pieter. Love you.
jsharf 13 hours ago 0 replies      
Pieter, after reading your article I feel connected to you, despite us never having met.

Thank you for everything you've done as a blog writer and as a member of the open source community.

educar 14 hours ago 0 replies      
This is easily one of the most courageous articles I have read. I can only hope to have the same courage when dying. Thanks for inspiring me, Pieter.
shanacarp 3 hours ago 1 reply      
Are you getting fully sequenced before you die, so if there are discoveries later, your kids will have a database of you to compare against?

Apparently the cost finally dropped below $1kUSD this year

isnullorempty 13 hours ago 0 replies      
I didn't know Pieter but contributed to CZMQ which was a excellent example of how C can be well written. ZMQ was like having lego blocks for me had so much fun playing with it, he is a profound thinker.
restalis 8 hours ago 1 reply      
It's strange to see such a protocol, that it was necessary in the first place. I guess people just assumed the wrong things even with their emotional compass as their guide.

Thank you Pieter, you're truly a giver till the last drop, and a model to follow!

amelius 8 hours ago 1 reply      
The best protocol is to just ignore it. Animals do it, so why shouldn't we?

This approach is also fully compatible with the idea that life itself is a "terminal disease".

scandox 8 hours ago 0 replies      
Code Connected got me interested in programming again.


BasDirks 7 hours ago 0 replies      
I have wanted to read up on ZeroMQ. This time I will. It is meaningless in the face of his situation, but I feel like this is how I, as a programmer, can "talk" to him, honor him. I'm not trying to be sentimental but it feels right.
simplemath 5 hours ago 0 replies      
I hope to muster the level of clarity and pragmatism you show here if I have time to reflect upon it when my number is called.


doug1001 6 hours ago 0 replies      
thank you for sharing this; thank you for your extraordinary contribution to the open source community; thank you for writing so candidly and so eloquently about the process of building software; and thank you for making we want to be a better developer.
fiatjaf 11 hours ago 1 reply      
Someone has to take the Edgnenet project and move it forward!
exit 8 hours ago 0 replies      
when you bring life into this world you condemn it to suffering this.


gm3dmo 7 hours ago 0 replies      
Pieter, you made the world a better place. Thanks.
goldenkey 14 hours ago 0 replies      
It is not every day we see much written about death on upvote lists like Reddit or HN. So it means a ton to see the perspective of a smart hacker who is indeed met with the undeniable future of his own time. I'm only 26 and I have been thinking about life and death a lot lately. Not because I would commit suicide -- but rather because the very stupifying fact of "I'm alive!" evades most of media and content we consume.

But it has huge implications for us in the very soon battle for understanding if turing-complete high-level-abstracting machines would experience "consciousness" like we do. In terms of medical care, rights, and other aspects for thinking entities.

And Pieter, if you are reading this, I wish you well in whatever lies ahead for your mind, and for your actions which will surely echo through the sands of time for people. Because like you said, even if life is indeed finite -- that we take a sensible approach, our legacy should be able to give us comfort that our actions do get magnified by time -- so do what you love, and it will speak through future generations.

simsicon 14 hours ago 0 replies      
Death is a horrible fact for a consciousness, however "being angry or sad at facts is a waste of time".
ak39 13 hours ago 0 replies      
There are many days I too feel I'm ready to die. But then realize I'm not ready. Couldn't understand why.

Reading what Pieter just wrote makes realize that I lack fortitude in one aspect: compassion. Pieter's words confirms to me that one needs to wield formidable muscles in the compassion department for one to be at peace and be ready to die.

Great man, Pieter.

blackflame7000 14 hours ago 0 replies      
Wow. Powerful stuff... Really makes you consider your own mortality.
_pmf_ 9 hours ago 0 replies      
Maybe his publishers could increase revenue percentages for him from his books sales; I did not even know he was an author, otherwise I would have bought one or two of his books earlier.
throwaway324324 7 hours ago 2 replies      
It seems against protocol to argue with a dying man, but refraining also seems disrespectful to Pieter. I always open the comment section hoping that someone will disagree with the article in a thoughtful way; perhaps it's my turn, since I disagree so intensely. Presumably others would like to at least hear the counterpoints.

Euthanasia is bad from a practical standpoint, and an evil, because:

1. Objectively speaking, euthanasia is suicide, and the killing of an innocent person. If Schwartz killing himself (out of despair for his future, fear of suffering in prison, or otherwise) was a tragedy, why is Pieter's upcoming suicide not a tragedy? Is it because his certain death is closer? (This view promotes the idea that a "disabled" life, where one is "unhappy", or must be cared for at great expense, or is suffering, or (extrapolating) is cryogenically frozen, is not valuable in and of itself; but it is.)

2. Suicide increases the risk that friends and family will commit suicide. A search will yield numerous studies: "2.1-fold increased risk of committing suicide"[1], etc. If you kill yourself, you are indirectly killing the people closest to you.

3. If you are against the death penalty because we might execute an innocent person, you should be against Euthanasia because we might kill a non-consenting person. This is already the case:

> "these laws and safeguards are regularly ignored and transgressed in all the jurisdictions ... about 900 people annually are administered lethal substances without having given explicit consent, and in one jurisdiction, almost 50% of cases of euthanasia are not reported ... some jurisdictions now extend the practice to newborns, children, and people with dementia. A terminal illness is no longer a prerequisite." [2]

Please, when you hear someone speak in flowery language about the dignity of choosing death, take a moment to evaluate what they are actually suggesting, and to research why people are opposed. Many seem to think that the only people against euthanasia are the religious whose reasoning is roughly "well, my religion randomly chose to mark this as evil, therefore it is", which is just not the case.

[1] http://www.psychiatrictimes.com/articles/relationship-suicid...

[2] http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3070710/

(...finally, this is likely a very poor protocol for dealing with death - people deal in different ways, and not all people will look back fondly on having to smile all the time, or on expressing "false" hope and being told that, actually, objectively speaking, they should not have hope. Also, a totally minor point, but we are not like Lego houses - we do not need to be utterly destroyed for others to live.)

flashman 11 hours ago 2 replies      
> Imagine you have a box of Lego, and you build a house, and you keep it. And you keep making new houses, and never breaking the old ones. What happens? "The box gets empty, Daddy." Good, yes. And can you make new houses then? "No, not really." So we're like a Lego houses, and when we die our pieces get broken up and put back in the box. We die, and new babies can be born. It is the wheel of life.

I am stealing this.

nikolay 13 hours ago 5 replies      
As an Eastern Orthodox Christian, euthanasia would not be an option to me, but I really hope I'd never have to think about it as a choice. I had an early stage melanoma in 2004 and I know I "beat it", but I also know it's all a matter of time and I made some important lifestyle changes and most importantly - switching to a ketogenic diet and intermittent fasting. (Well, also as an Eastern Orthodox Christian, I'm currently undergoing Great Lent, and I know for a fact that carbs are terrible in the long run.)

It's so pathetic that we as a society waste so much time and energy on non-essential stuff instead of curing major killers. Yes, cancer is a hard one to beat (each cancer being different, too), but we've done even more complex things as humanity. I really don't think curing major diseases has ever been a top priority of our society! I hope one day soon people finally realize that diseases are not what other people get (the arrogance of the healthy), but what we all will eventually!

marincounty 14 hours ago 1 reply      
This is the most altruistic, caring piece of communicating I have ever read.

I don't know this man, but I love him. I will remember this to my own demise.

I will look for a political group that is for a humane way of dying, and ask what needs to be done.

My father died in extreme pain. For three days he was in hell. His last words he spoke to me, "when will it end?". I didn't have an answer. My father's death kinda ruined my life. Even though we had our differences; every day since that day in January, 11 years ago, I think about how he suffered, and part of me died with him.

anonymous777 9 hours ago 7 replies      
This whole thread reeks of death acceptance culture. HN readers show off how cool they are for accepting death instead of discussing how we as a tech community could help cure these diseases or at least give more people an option of being cryopreserved.

The really unpleasant truth is that if we as a society began doing serious focused R&D on these life-threatening diseases earlier, the OP and many others wouldn't have to die.

But we didn't. Enjoy marketing your mobile apps until cancer suddenly makes you rot away.

dang 3 hours ago 2 replies      
We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11548216 and marked it off-topic.
samio 13 hours ago 3 replies      
Edit: the date has been fixed in the artice. Also: I'm sorry.

So, what's up with the dates?

First, the article date:

> wrote on 22 Apr, 05:43 (4 hours ago)

Then later in the text:

> and on 25 April my oncologist confirmed it was cancer.

Seems like someone is a secret time traveler...?

function_seven 12 hours ago 1 reply      
> but you still have to wonder if there isn't an immunotherapy treatment that would work for him.

In the context of this article, no, I don't have to wonder. He expresses very well why he doesn't want to entertain such longshots.

paraschopra 10 hours ago 1 reply      
This is an extremely odd thing to comment. You may be right, but your comment just feels inappropriate in the context of this thread.
dang 4 hours ago 4 replies      
We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11548172 and marked it off-topic.
drivebyops 9 hours ago 0 replies      
Thought this was something for killing processes judging by the title and it being hacker news
AMD licences x86 tech to Chinese company anandtech.com
125 points by dbcooper  10 hours ago   84 comments top 9
tcoppi 9 hours ago 5 replies      
Without knowing any additional details of the agreement, I don't see how Intel will let this slide. The terms of their agreement are mostly likely violated at least in spirit, if not in the letter. Not only that, but it will have to get past export controls that have very recently stopped exports of Intel processors bound for China, I have no doubt they will find a joint venture to develop similar processors an easy target. If it gets past that, I would expect a lengthy lawsuit from Intel. Seems very risky from AMD's perspective.
jlawer 35 minutes ago 0 replies      
I am curious if this was caused by the export restrictions on Xeon & Xeon Phi chips to the Chinese government due to the concerns about their super-computers.

If that is the cause, it could be interesting as we may end up with AMD (and the rest of us) getting the benefits of heavy research into upcoming processors, simply as they become a strategic material for the Chinese government.

The competition would benefit all of us.

voodootrucker 1 hour ago 0 replies      
This might be our one ray of hope to keep the platform open and uncompromised:


npx 8 hours ago 1 reply      
Let THEM omit frame pointers for a decade or two, it is in the broader national interests of America.
hawski 8 hours ago 1 reply      
So when nVidia wanted x86 license for Tegra K1 they should have go to AMD? Probably it would backfire their probable relationship with Intel. Do they have one?
nickpsecurity 6 hours ago 1 reply      
x86 boxes are about to get a lot cheaper since China has cheap RTL engineers, fabs, and assembly workers. Hopefully it gets as interesting as ARM SOC's and boards have in Shenizen.
zekevermillion 9 hours ago 1 reply      
Andy Grove must be spinning in his grave!
vox_mollis 4 hours ago 0 replies      
This will be nice if it leads to x86 implementations devoid of ME or equivalent transparent hardware backdoors.
snvzz 9 hours ago 10 replies      
For servers, really? I don't get it, they could just use RISC-V.

x86 has a user case: legacy software.

Swift Reversing [pdf] infiltratecon.com
32 points by chatmasta  4 hours ago   3 comments top
pomfpomfpomf3 3 hours ago 2 replies      
Cool, where can I download swift.py?
Fingerprints are Usernames, not Passwords (2013) dustinkirkland.com
149 points by vincent_s  7 hours ago   47 comments top 15
UncleSam 5 hours ago 1 reply      
This article has been discussed in the past (about 2 years ago).https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6477505

I think that fingerprints are fine for low security things, but I would never use it as authentication for anything that touches my bank account.

xoa 4 hours ago 2 replies      
This article was and remains wrong, and at least in the comments so far most people appear to be missing the point, which in turn weakens security. Biometrics are neither user names nor passwords, they're a perfectly valid factor (along with something you know and something you have) with their own strengths and weaknesses vs various threat models. One of the most absolutely fundamental mistakes that can be made with security is sacrificing the good at the alter of the perfect, because overall security is always, 100% of the time an economic equation, a time/resource expenditure tradeoff between an attacker and defender for a given value of information. "Security" as a field also exists almost exclusively for the benefit of and requiring interaction with humans, which means that the human factor must always be a fundamental consideration as well. Or more pithily, a "security" system is garbage if its users can't use it, won't use it, find it too easy to screw up, or even if the costs it imposes are greater then the benefits provided.

Biometrics, including finger prints, are human friendly, and that instantly makes them worthy of consideration as part of a system. Touch ID or the like can enable a person to use an extremely strong password that would otherwise be completely uneconomic, and the combination of a limited time, extremely fast biometric shortcut with a very strong core password, particularly if combined with coercion code use (only possible for now via jailbreak but something Apple or another manufacturer could and should implement at all levels), remote lockout (long available everywhere), etc., may be significantly better then merely a PIN code alone.

Threat models cannot be ignored for a security system, because they define the system. The greatest threat most people face are remote attacks, with the next greatest being scatter shots of various sorts (in other words, somebody was looking to steal or attack a device, not your device in particular). Persistent targeted threats are an entirely different situation and a password alone is not even necessarily better in a mobile scenario, because in a mobile scenario you often do not have even a modicum of control over your environment. A fingerprint might be possible to lift and use as the author links, but a PIN code or password can be taken, often even more easily, via shoulder surfing or cameras. In fact in the modern first world environment bird's eye view (ceiling/pole-mounted etc) surveillance cameras are becoming ever more ubiquitous and ever higher resolution. Are people going to seriously suggest nobody use their mobile device anywhere with a surveillance system? More and more, how will you even know that? Taking advantage of the ever increasing cost/performance/size/power improvements powered by the smartphone revolution, retailers are interested in ever more camera use not for thieves but for metrics, to figure out exactly what shoppers are doing down to precisely what they're looking at and for how long. The retailers of course have no interest in your phone info, and in fact an interest in not making people worried about that sort of thing. But if we're going to consider someone going to the specific trouble to rapidly spoof biometric identity for a specific device, then it's necessary to consider that once the cameras exist at all access for non-intended purposes may be just a hack or national-security-directive away.

Basically, it's frustrating to still see people pointing to "somebody broke into this security system!" as if it means anything without thinking about the time/resource cost and threat model. Biometrics absolutely have a role to play in general authentication for the general population for the foreseeable future. There are paths for improvement there just as in other areas, perhaps culminating in fusion technologies like security authentication implants wired into our brains someday, but we'll need functional authentication to get us that far and passwords alone do not cut for most of the population as currently implemented.

colinbartlett 5 hours ago 0 replies      
Can a mod please add "(2013)" to the title?
colinbartlett 5 hours ago 0 replies      
Aloha 3 hours ago 0 replies      
fingerprints are UUIDs, not either usernames or password.
ShinyCyril 4 hours ago 4 replies      
My background is in EE, so forgive me if this is a stupid question. Are there any cryptographic hash functions which support a closeness metric? Having written that out, it seems that such a thing would be contradictory, as to be able to compute their closeness would give information away about their nature and thus make them possibly reversible.
newman314 4 hours ago 0 replies      
Whenever this topic comes up, I always think the following is a useful read.


SFJulie 4 hours ago 0 replies      
since fingerprints are "measured" they MAY be usernames. Damn errors, and false positive refusing to let stuff be non ambiguous. And, like everything that can be measured ... it can be duplicated... without the knowledge of the owner of the metric.Damn analogic world refusing to enter the modern didgital world. (pun digit = finger in latin
alexnewman 3 hours ago 1 reply      
something you have, something you know, something about you. Nothing has changed in 40 years. The key is making them reputabiable. It's hard to get new fingers.
dlandis 5 hours ago 0 replies      
flagged. redirected to spam site when visiting this site on mobile.
cfieber 5 hours ago 0 replies      
that makes sense since my voice is my passport. [verify me]
xyzzy4 5 hours ago 1 reply      
Fingerprints are more like your SSN. You shouldn't trust anyone to store them and not share them.
fweespee_ch 5 hours ago 3 replies      
I'm glad to see this post getting upvoted because I've had to argue with people repeatedly on HN who claim its private / a valid authentication factor.

Look folks, maybe as part of some second or third factor it might be okay...but you still need a password.

ryanlol 5 hours ago 1 reply      
Is this not completely obvious?
SlySherZ 4 hours ago 2 replies      
I think he has a point, but do we really have better alternatives?

Soon enough computers will be able to check every possibility for passwords as big as we can remember them. With good algorithms predicting what is likely to be a valid password, maybe they already can.

Even though I agree fingerprints aren't a good solution, passwords aren't either. Any ideas?

Maybe we could have some kind of card that would have big keys stored on it.

EDIT: Fixed missing word

       cached 22 April 2016 22:02:01 GMT