hacker news with inline top comments    .. more ..    22 Nov 2013 News
home   ask   best   6 years ago   
Id Software founder John Carmack resigns polygon.com
270 points by footpath  2 hours ago   60 comments top 24
Arjuna 1 hour ago 3 replies      
Wow, I'm just now seeing this news. Initially, I had that sinking feeling set in... I mean, like you, I have been impacted by his story, his games (not just the Wolfenstein/Doom/Quake franchises... I'm talking Commander Keen, boys and girls), his code, reading Masters of Doom, etc.

I can see my copy of Michael Abrash's Graphics Programming Black Book Special Edition sitting here, which was such a treat to read when it came out, because it has so many great chapters on the development of Quake and little stories about John's discoveries and thought processes throughout the development of the game.

But, then I thought... wait... this is a new beginning. I wrote about this previously, but, look for gaming to start heading in the direction of VR with technology like Oculus Rift. Also, with someone of the caliber of John Carmack involved (now totally focused on it because of the resignation announcement) with not only his passion and skill, but his ability to work with graphics hardware manufacturers and driver developers to effect change and garner the necessary support and backing, expect to see vibrant, compelling developments in this field.

In case you missed it, check this video out of John discussing some of his VR work. It is from E3 2012:


That momentary sinking feeling has faded away now... great things are ahead!

beloch 27 minutes ago 0 replies      
This is fantastic news.

I loved Id back in the day. When all it took for a game studio to be great was the most advanced code, Id was king! Then FPS games became more like movies, and Id became a bit like Michael Bay. They still pushed the technology forward, but almost everyone was making FPS's that had better plots, characters, etc.. The technologies Id licenses to other game studios are put to better use by them than in Id's own hands!

VR has been around for decades, but it has always sucked. Low resolution displays and poor head-tracking have historically been problems, but latency has long been a problem that trumped all others. Carmack and Oculus were already working on getting Rift's latency down to levels that would make VR a less nauseating experience for users.

This move just means Carmack is finding his work at Oculus more rewarding than at Id. That means we can probably expect great things from Oculus in the near future.

LandoCalrissian 2 hours ago 4 replies      
I think this check had been in the mail for a while. He is clearly far more excited these days about VR and where it can go. I'm sure he has more than enough money too to never have to worry about working again if he wanted.

I really wish him the best of luck, truly one of my favorite people in tech. I hope we still can get his annual keynotes, because they are great to listen to.

aryastark 2 hours ago 2 replies      
First Winamp, and now John Carmack leaves id. This has been a brutal week.

On one hand, it's exciting to see John working on VR tech. I really do hope we see something amazing out of it. But it still feels wrong, an id Software without Carmack. Hopefully they can continue on and reclaim some of their former glory as well, and let's hope Carmack keeps in the spotlight.

melling 45 minutes ago 0 replies      
Carmack is going full-time and the company is doing a lot of hiring...


I'm not into VR, but this could be one of those "this changes everything" moments.

leoc 2 hours ago 3 replies      
Slightly testy tone in that iD statement, isn't there?
untog 2 hours ago 0 replies      
Very happy for John - his early days were at the very forefront of PC game development and while iD still does great stuff, video gaming is in a very stable, iterative place right now.

Hopefully chasing this VR dream will take him back to those early pioneering days.

venomsnake 1 hour ago 0 replies      
This makes me happy. I have a feeling that iD were dragging John down. He could always make a brilliant tech that they somehow always failed to makes decent game of after q3 arena.

I really hope that he will be able to push the limits of possible about graphics technology once again.

mkramlich 1 hour ago 0 replies      
It's a little sad news but exciting as well. I'd rather see John's mind helping push VR/AR and 'cheaper/nimbler/entrepeneurial/hacker-maker/DIY' aerospace forward than churning out yet another 3D FPS game. We have tons of great games/engines of that type already to choose from, and lots of great people continuing to work in that space.
blah32497 9 minutes ago 0 replies      
What a strange move. Maybe he wasn't spending enough time at iD and was forced to leave?

You'd think his having a leg in gaming and a leg in VR would create a wonderful synergy. Knowing all the in's and out of both worlds he could have insured great integration of Doom 4 with the Oculus rift - making sure iD was on the technological forefront while the Oculus would have a great demo from day 1.

(see the Leap Motion for an example of what happens when you don't have a good demo day 1)

endgame 2 hours ago 1 reply      
I find it interesting that iD and Carmack are still described in terms of Doom and Quake.
_random_ 2 hours ago 1 reply      
Basically confirms that VR is in the "Slope of Enlightment".
danso 2 hours ago 1 reply      
Obligatory mention of "Masters of DOOM", the biography of Johns Carmack and Romero:


Like reading iWoz... a lot of stories of brilliant engineering at an elite level.

na85 10 minutes ago 0 replies      
At first I was elated, but then I realized I was confusing Carmack with the egotistical John Romero.
billyjobob 46 minutes ago 0 replies      
In the early days of PC gaming John Carmack was a genius, and Quake 3 was his masterpiece. I guess he is still a genius, but from an outsider's perspective the advancements he has made since then don't seem to changed the world in the same way.

Graphics get prettier, but gameplay stays the same, or even gets worse because the prettier graphics require higher budgets which require lowest-common-denominator appeal to recoup.

So it's good that he is trying something truly new now, where he has a chance to make a difference again.

saturdaysaint 1 hour ago 0 replies      
Sounds like good news - I'd rather see him working on core technologies that can benefit all games than working on iD's games, which I'd characterize as merely being "pretty good" (albeit very technically impressive).
gagege 2 hours ago 2 replies      
It's bittersweet for me. I grew up with id games and John Carmack has just always been there as id's genius programmer guy. Feels like the end of an era.

On the other hand, John Carmack is working full time for Oculus VR!

avoutthere 44 minutes ago 0 replies      
This is truly the end of an era. John's work has given me countless hours of joy and I look forward to seeing what he produces next.
ogreyonder 1 hour ago 1 reply      
Am I the only one surprised to find that Carmack was still working for iD? I had thought his taking a position with OculusVR implied his departure months ago.
marksands07 39 minutes ago 0 replies      
I guess I should feel dumb, because I thought Carmack left id when he joined OculusVR.
mkramlich 1 hour ago 1 reply      
smells like vesting and/or end of golden handcuffs period (in the context of the prior Betheseda -> iD acquisition)
atburrow 2 hours ago 0 replies      
It will be interesting to see how the future pans out for both companies. John Carmack is a brilliant person and I think that Oculus VR will do very well with him on board full time.
BlackDeath3 1 hour ago 0 replies      
Wherever he goes, he shall kick ass. Best wishes, Carmack!
salient 1 hour ago 0 replies      
> John's work on id Tech 5 and the technology for the current development work at id is complete.

So he's leaving just before starting to work on the voxel/polygon id Tech 6 hybrid gaming engine. Darn it!


Hopefully id Software will continue that without him, but I doubt it.

DOJ lied to Supreme Court to avoid judicial review of warrantless surveillance documentcloud.org
270 points by revelation  3 hours ago   71 comments top 11
rayiner 3 hours ago 5 replies      
Read the questions at the end. The letter isn't fucking around:

"We believe that a formal notification to the Supreme Court of the government'smisrepresentations in the case--both relating to its notice policy and relating to its practice of'about' collection under Section 702 of the FISA Amendments Act--woulcl be an important stepin correcting the public record and would be in the interests of the public as well as of theAdministration and the Supreme Court."

fleitz 3 hours ago 4 replies      
I wish someone could make a treason case out of perjury in relation to a matter of national security during a time of war for these actions.

This crap would stop pretty fast.

Zikes 3 hours ago 3 replies      
This sounds important, but I'm at a loss as to its significance.

What was Clapper v Amnesty?

It sounds like Solicitor General Verrilli made a lie of omission in the court. Is that considered a lie under oath?

What obligation does Solicitor General Verrilli have to the three Senators to answer their questions? What consequences might he face if he choose to ignore the letter?

Realistically, what could this mean for the original Clapper v Amnesty case, and how might it affect the public in general?

w1ntermute 3 hours ago 1 reply      
Unless some high-level DoJ and NSA officials are thrown in jail for a couple decades for all this, it's not going to stop.
jstalin 3 hours ago 0 replies      
I know the words "ethics" and "lawyers" don't generally enters people's minds at the same time, but the model rules of ethics for lawyers take this sort of thing seriously. If the Senators show that some lawyers did indeed lie to the Supreme Court, the Court itself could take action on those attorneys' licenses. It's also a lawyer's duty to report if they are aware of another attorney's violations of ethical rules.

I know it's doubtful, but one can hope.

tsaoutourpants 3 hours ago 3 replies      
These three Senators have realized that they can capitalize on public sentiment against the NSA.

Good on them... that's what representing the people is about.

mvanga 1 hour ago 0 replies      
Would someone be willing to provide the background, interpretation and ramifications of this document for someone not very familiar with this case?
zcarter 2 hours ago 0 replies      
Lawyers: What precedent is there for supreme court decisions citing a specific piece of evidence as the basis for their ruling, where that piece of evidence is later shown to be erroneous?
salient 3 hours ago 0 replies      
Don't expect Holder the Untouchable to ever be punished for this. At this point I think he's more untouchable than even "Emperor Alexander", the current (and soon former) chief of NSA.
VladRussian2 2 hours ago 0 replies      
just to put things in perspective - is is any surprise that people who is ok with torture would lie? Why would someone expect it different?
adultSwim 2 hours ago 0 replies      
Warm Regards
Someone just made a $147,239,214 Bitcoin transfer blockchain.info
409 points by a3voices  5 hours ago   287 comments top 33
tokenadult 3 hours ago 1 reply      
If this was an actual transfer of ownership of Bitcoin at all near that value, this would trigger money-transfer reporting requirements under the laws of most countries,[1] especially if this was an international transfer of ownership. I see that all the other comments here are speculating about what exactly happened here, and one astute comment before this one pointed out that the actual owner of the Bitcoin may still be the same individual person both before and after this blockchain transfer. It will be interesting to see how the regulatory environment keeps up with the implementation of Bitcoin, which so far is a very tiny percentage of the world economy.

There were also statements in some previous comments that this transfer was made for free. It is true enough that a Bitcoin transfer doesn't inherently incur a processing charge from a merchant payment processor, but as merchants learned back in the Middle Ages when charging interest was formally illegal, the price of a transaction can hide financing and processing costs. We don't know what was agreed with whom by whom to make this transfer happen. The transfer may have occurred at a higher than list price for something that was bought, to make up for the ongoing inconvenience of receiving a payment using the new Bitcoin payment mechanism.

[1] One example, among many: http://www.consumerfinance.gov/remittances-transfer-rule-ame...

fragsworth 4 hours ago 20 replies      
Consider this: They paid $0.00 for the transfer of $150 million dollars.

A direct (i.e. not based on third party credit, regulations, etc.) transfer of wealth of this magnitude between two entities usually consists of a heavily guarded, insured, physical shipment of cash or gold. Depending how safely you want to make the transfer, and how far the entities are on the globe, it can cost hundreds of thousands to millions of dollars.

Bitcoin has real value. It solves problems on an incredible scale. I wish I realized this months ago.

dmix 3 hours ago 1 reply      
aroch 5 hours ago 2 replies      
As pointed out on Reddit, this wallet has made several large transactions since September: https://blockchain.info/address/1HBa5ABXb5Yx1YcQsppqwKtaAGFP...
nly 3 hours ago 1 reply      
Hardly. If you tried to sell 195,000 coins you'd wipe out all the exchanges and cause a crash.

Talking numbers, you could sell them all on BTC-E right now, bagging you just $7M, and take the price down to ~$36. You can spread that around the exchanges of course, if you're quick, but you're still nowhere near $147M at current market depth.

kmfrk 4 hours ago 6 replies      
Should this be regarded as capital gains from currency speculation, when it comes to taxation, or how does something like this look to a tax attorney or accountant?
jluxenberg 2 hours ago 1 reply      
Are those editorialized links added by Blockchain.info admins, or are they part of the block chain itself? ("gotcha" and "shit load of money!")
Pxtl 4 hours ago 0 replies      
Were any of these previously-thought-lost "dark" bitcoins, or was it all live bitcoin currency?
politician 4 hours ago 1 reply      
If you look at the tree view, the lump sum has already been broken down into smaller bits.


Click the yellow circles to expand the tree nodes.

mynameishere 2 hours ago 0 replies      
About 0.000028 times as big as daily forex trading.
tsaoutourpants 4 hours ago 0 replies      
FBI clearing out DPR's accounts?

...or DPR associate moving around his money? ;)

davecap1 4 hours ago 1 reply      
Must be someone buying a seat on Virgin Galactic
mariusz79 4 hours ago 8 replies      
Well, this is just another reason why bitcoin will not work - you can track money changing hands.. Certain three letter agencies would have not trouble tracking most of the transfers, all over the world.
altoz 4 hours ago 0 replies      
Someone wanted to be on the bitcoin 100 richest list.
dcc1 5 hours ago 1 reply      
Is that right someone transferred millions with 0 fees? cheapskates :D
seabrookmx 4 hours ago 1 reply      
> Someone

This is a little misleading. This could be a business etc.

A mining pool or exchange transferring from one wallet to another (ie. to cold storage)?

You wouldn't want a typo in your address for that amount of cash! I'd probably break it up into a bunch of smaller transactions just to be safe.

ck2 4 hours ago 1 reply      
That's nothing, someone owns (owned) six million litecoins:


shocks 3 hours ago 0 replies      
Someone trying to get #1 on http://bitcoinrichlist.com/top100 ?

Seems very reckless. All your eggs in one basket.

Titusak 4 hours ago 3 replies      
I still dont get how that kind of amount is cashed out.I mean, yeah, there is some brokers, but I dont think they have this kind of cash available...
this_user 4 hours ago 1 reply      
If the map is correct, the first node that saw the transaction is located roughly in Frankfurt, Germany which is a major financial centre. The transaction was made at 5:38 local time which is right around the time the Frankfurt exchange closes. Might be this transaction was done by a larger financial institution closing up shop for the week.
mkramlich 4 hours ago 0 replies      
... and I go right back to building something to help Bitcoin mitigate risks
fat0wl 1 hour ago 1 reply      
Doesn't anyone find it odd that the price is quoted in USD and not BTC?
fpp 2 hours ago 0 replies      
and already on its way back to one of its original walletshttps://blockchain.info/address/1HBa5ABXb5Yx1YcQsppqwKtaAGFP...
hkbarton 2 hours ago 0 replies      
wow, 7kb data value 150 million dollars, what a crazy world.
Codhisattva 5 hours ago 5 replies      
Is it possible to know the actual amount of money that exchanged hands?
roasbeef 3 hours ago 0 replies      
It was Richard Branson..most likely someone paying for their ride to space in BTC.
billions 2 hours ago 0 replies      
With a significant number of casual PCs storing bitcoin the virus industry is about to become WAY more lucrative for the bad guys.
bhartzer 2 hours ago 1 reply      
Is there not a limit to the amount of money that can be transferred via Bitcoin?
bigstueyc22 3 hours ago 0 replies      
After recent fluctuations it's very hard to predict what, if any impact this will have on it's value.
jhhn 3 hours ago 0 replies      
OMG... is someone buying a nuke? !!!
neakor 3 hours ago 1 reply      
What does the "shit load of money!" mean on the transaction page?
chenster 4 hours ago 0 replies      
Russian mobs.
dragontamer 4 hours ago 1 reply      
OMFG, Bitcoin is so anonymous!
Developer ports iOS core to non-Apple hardware winocm.com
36 points by uptown  1 hour ago   6 comments top 2
bsimpson 7 minutes ago 1 reply      
Misleading title - this is just Darwin. There doesn't appear to be anything iOS specific in this announcement.
billyjobob 10 minutes ago 2 replies      
On the desktop we can install OS X on non-Apple hardware to make Hackintoshes. So far this is just a kernel port with no graphics, but will it lead to installing iOS on non-Apple phones in a similar way? 'iClones'?
Turntable.fm shutting down - new "Turntable Live" introduced turntable.fm
47 points by phaedryx  2 hours ago   25 comments top 15
tks2103 19 minutes ago 1 reply      
Turntable dunked all other music streaming sites in playlist quality for the simple reason that the intelligence behind song selection resided in humans rather than an algorithm.

It was a specific application of the general idea that social recommendations are more powerful than algorithmic recommendations. I don't know how valid the general idea is, but when it came to Turntable, it worked. People search the space of musical works much more effectively than algorithms.

And then Turntable did nothing with that power. They had high quality playlists being minted by the thousands on a daily basis, and I could not access any of them.

At least for a time, they were focused on live engagement. Unfortunately, it's just too hard to grow a music streaming product that demands each listener be present to click a button for every song. I loved the service, but I also have a job. I cannot be on the site all day long. At the risk of being presumptuous, I would guess that the product leaders were blinded by their devotion to live engagement.

Focusing instead on their brilliant, yet simple, solution to the problem of "What song should go on next?" would have been the right call. But they did not walk this path.

As for their new product, which predictably focuses more intently on the live engagement aspect, I am unconvinced. Turntable Live provides a subset of the functionality that Twitch.tv does, with less reach.

Best of luck to them. No doubt, they are an extremely talented team.

And I'm really, really going to miss Turntable. Kickass idea. (yeah yeah plug.dj, whatever)

ihuman 1 hour ago 1 reply      
I don't see this move being popular. They are basically demoting the users from both consumers and curators to just consumers of the music. What made turnable.fm awesome was that it was people like yourself deciding on what everyone wanted to listen; if people didn't like the choices, someone else could be selected. Now that control is out of the equation. The artists are selecting what everyone wants to hear, they are choosing based on what they want you to hear. Don't like the music? All you can do about it now is leave the room. Only time will tell if this is what brings turnable.fm into the spotlight, or sink it down into the depths.
rb2e 1 hour ago 1 reply      
Actually believe this would be a good plan. I listen to live music in Second Life (Don't laugh) and I've found live music works well when streamed live both audio only and video.

For musicians, its great to perform live for people but having to tour and go from gig to gig, lugging equipment around, and most of the time only being paid beer money and travel expenses.

Being able to perform for an audience but not having to leave your doorstep saves you both time and money. You can reach more people worldwide than you can in a small pub holding fifty to a hundred.

I understand people love turntable.fm but the labels have pretty much killed innovation by the licensing so to me it isn't a surprising that streaming companies are having problems.

Maybe the new turntable.fm can be the Twitch.TV of the live music world. Who knows but anything is possible!

johnthealy3 1 hour ago 0 replies      
As much as I loved the concept of turntable, it was always a music service for me rather than the interactive experience they intended. The best part about it was that other users, not bots or radio station managers, determined the playlist and therefore led to new and interesting tracks. However, the interface didn't really support my usage and hearing familiar tracks became more and more rare as the rooms became more established.

Their decision to focus on virtual events makes sense from a monetization standpoint, and I couldn't agree more with their approach. I do think there's a sweetspot to be had for user-generated radio, as Pandora is too repetitive while Turntable was not repetitive enough.

Fzzr 1 hour ago 2 replies      
I left turntable for plug.dj almost exactly a year ago. Honestly, I'm not surprised.
taybin 2 hours ago 0 replies      
Alas, tt.fm. You will be missed. I've been in the same room every day for two years, meeting friends and listening to new music.
blktiger 55 minutes ago 0 replies      
I'm not really surprised, they didn't exactly have a plan to make money from turntable.fm. I loved the concept, but I find it a bit too distracting to listen to most of the time anyway.
MichaelTieso 1 hour ago 1 reply      
That's too bad. I was a big listener for awhile. I was a regular in the Chillout rooms.
rhizome 1 hour ago 0 replies      
Turntable.fm was the first site I watched from the very inception of its hype cycle, which appeared white-hot. I had just checked in with them the other day, "yep, still alive," but I hadn't heard zilch about them in years.
Altaer 59 minutes ago 0 replies      
It looks like Mixify is doing something similar now as well [1], but focusing on booking clubs instead of a bunch of individuals like Turntable. Both seems like a pretty neat concept. I think this will be great for low population areas that artists wouldn't typically go to.

[1] http://www.mixify.com/clubcast

OnyeaboAduba 37 minutes ago 0 replies      
I read an article a while back about the founders not being on the same page might explain the pivot
rajbala 1 hour ago 0 replies      
Live music doesn't translate well to a live Internet experience.
phaedryx 1 hour ago 0 replies      
It was my favorite place to go for music to code to; at least they let me export my playlists.
tmimicus 1 hour ago 0 replies      
wow - 'turntable live' looks really lame...
ljlolel 1 hour ago 0 replies      
so sad...
Programming Language Checklist colinm.org
20 points by kibwen  54 minutes ago   5 comments top 3
zeteo 9 minutes ago 1 reply      
>[ ] The name of your language makes it impossible to find on Google

Unless you work for Google, in which case your language's name (maybe shared with a common verb or a popular board game) will quickly become the top search result!

lignuist 8 minutes ago 1 reply      

To me it looks like a few new languages are introduced every week and I just cannot understand why. I can understand that a programmer who reaches a certain level wants to build his own language, but do they really think that the world is waiting for yet another programming language? It is just not getting easier with a new language.

This article is a must read for everyone who considers writing a new language.If all the arguments do not apply for your language, then the world is probably really waiting for your new language. :)

tptacek 17 minutes ago 0 replies      
This is like lowbrow-dismissal bingo. Someone (cough) should turn this into actual bingo cards.
Building a Crystal Clear Whiteboard hackaday.com
90 points by hepha1979  3 hours ago   26 comments top 9
WestCoastJustin 2 hours ago 0 replies      
Example of the board in action @ http://peshkin.mech.northwestern.edu/233/056_RCcircuits2.htm...

Lightboard: construction, electronics, lighting, parts list, and improvements @ https://sites.google.com/site/northwesternlightboard/home

The setup will cost about $10-15k along with some elbow grease, which probably isn't that much in this type of setting, especially if you are creating high quality videos which are timeless.

ChuckMcM 41 minutes ago 0 replies      
This is so cool. I realize that it doesn't look quite that cool in person but am definitely interested in seeing about building one.

I'm now wondering if we could add LED lighting to the top of our sliding glass door by drilling holes down to the edge of the glass and installing 1W LEDs.

Raphmedia 3 hours ago 2 replies      
" In order to get the text to read the correct way he just bounces the camera off of a mirror. "

... couldn't he simply flip the output?

rwmj 3 hours ago 4 replies      
Everything hes writing is backwards. Thats not actually a problem in this case as [Michael] uses flip teaching.

But flip teaching is nothing to do with writing backwards, or at least not according to the linked Wikipedia article. So he is actually writing backwards?

Edit: Ah I see, the whole scene is mirrored, including him. I guess that could work, although then diagrams really have to be drawn backwards (assuming western L->R convention), and any computer generated text will have to be projected backwards on the whiteboard.

angersock 2 hours ago 1 reply      
There's also the classic DIY whiteboard recipe for those of us who are very cheap/not yet funded:

Get a 4x8 sheet of shower board from Home Depot. It's basically just a thin piece of melamine, and should be like 8 bucks.

Get a 4x8 sheet of really low grade 3/8" or 1/2" cedar chipboard (like that used in flooring), again maybe 3-4 bucks.

Glue the former onto the latter with Liquid Nails, probably 2-3 bucks a tube.

Works great, erases, and when it finally gets too gross to use (in about a year), you replace it for another fifteen bucks.

bgraves 2 hours ago 0 replies      
Many example videos of this Lightboard in use by its creator.


mseidl 2 hours ago 0 replies      
I made one for myself, just spent 45$, 40$ for a desk protector from ikea, and some mirror mounts, and mounted it to my wall.
beachstartup 3 hours ago 2 replies      
wait... did anyone catch how he superimposed the powerpoint slide onto the screen/glass/whatever? it's not in the video or the page text.
jcutrell 2 hours ago 0 replies      
I did this with an Ikea tabletop and some shelf hangers while I was at GaTech. The shelf hangers framed the glass tabletop on a concrete wall. Albeit not a standalone board, it also had the ikea led strip. It worked well for me to map out ideas on, and fit nicely on my wall at home.

I think I came out of the project at around 150 bucks.

Magnus Carlsen is World Chess Champion fide.com
324 points by jordanmessina  8 hours ago   188 comments top 23
kadabra9 8 hours ago 4 replies      
Reading more about this match and Magnus in general, I learned of a measure termed "Nettlesomeness" which has been used to measure which players do the most to make their opponents to make mistakes. Magnus, with his highly creative style of play and unexpected moves, not surprisingly ranks the highest in this measure.

He seems to have this remarkable gift of making moves which aren't just strong, they get inside his opponent's head and cause them to either overthink/break down. I'm interested in the technical details behind this metric. Has anyone heard of it before?

Regardless, congrats Magnus. You are truly a generational talent, and I'm excited to see what your win will do for the game.


realrocker 6 hours ago 1 reply      
Congrats Magnus Carlsen! You finally unseated our beloved Vishwanathan Anand and made the beautiful game even more beautiful.

Allow me to go on a tangent to let me tell my personal story with chess. I began playing at age 7 when my elder brother borrowed a chess board from a friend. It was a nice break from the physical altercations between us(read mat fights). My maternal grand ma called it "Satan's Game". And my mother toed the line. Why? I don't know the exact reason, but I guess it was an amazing time sink. Or maybe they both had watched this Hindi movie by Satyajit Ray: The Chess Players(http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0076696/). When the game s between my brother and me became violent(You moved it when I was off to the toilet...) it was banned from our home. But we didn't give up. Our summers were spent playing chess in a nearby mango orchard or the graveyard a mile away. The chess board made out of paper with plastic pieces was the only "toy" we never broke. Those were the best days of my life. And it's still safe 20 years later. With every piece intact. What a game.

sethbannon 8 hours ago 2 replies      
I'm super excited to see the impact this will have on our noble game. I think it could see a real surge in popularity in the years ahead. And at the age of 22, Magnus is only just getting started.
McUsr 2 hours ago 0 replies      
I am Norwegian and fucking proud of it right now, due to Magnus Carlsen.

He comes from a Nation consisting of 5 mill. people, compared to Anand's billion people.

This is probably the greatest sports achievement our country will ever make, as there are really no comparable sports achievements in the world, not now, anyway.

IMHO: They should knight him the second he gets of the plane when he returns home. Because no other Norwegian has ever accomplished anything close to this, with regards to bring honour to our nation.

Gratuler Magnus!

anuragramdasan 8 hours ago 0 replies      
60 minutes from last year. pretty cool stuff right here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qc_v9mTfhC8
girvo 4 hours ago 1 reply      
After spending the last 18-months immersed in the professional StarCraft 2 scene, I can totally appreciate a lot of the meta-stuff around Chess now. I always enjoyed Chess, and was not too bad at it (compared to those around me, certainly nowhere near even an amateur-pro!), but for some reason SC2 "clicks" better for me (I think being addicted to Brood War while spending 6 months in South Korea probably has something to do with it).

The discussion of "mind games" {"nettlesomeness" here) is something that SC2 has an obsession with, and certainly can play a massive part in pro tournaments, and I'd never considered it applying to chess... but now that I think about it, everything in SC2's meta really came from Chess to begin with, only applied in real-time with 300+ actions per minute and hundreds of pieces with few illegal moves. And yet I struggle more with grokking the advanced strategies of Chess than I do for StarCraft!

aaronetz 8 hours ago 27 replies      
<blasphemy alert> Does anyone know some good alternatives to chess, as a game that mixes deep thought and aesthetic variety? I tried Go, but found it somewhat boring compared to chess, because of its uniformity (which, on the other hand, has the advantage of beautiful simplicity and symmetry.) On another note: it is unfortunate, in my opinion, that chess has a special standing among board games. I would love to see some more variety in world-class intellectual matches, similar to what exists in physical sports. Something like a "board game Olympics".

Edit: Thank you for all the useful replies! In reply to some of you, I am a complete beginner at Go. Maybe the word 'boring' was not carefully chosen. As a programmer, I should have known better - that things may seem boring (tiresome?) until you become more fluent with them. I should certainly give Go another shot...

mattivc 7 hours ago 0 replies      
It's quite fun to see the media attention he has gotten here in Norway. For the last few weeks the sport segment of most news show spent as much time devoted to chess as football, which is not something i ever expected to see.

I'm not much a chess player myself but it still very satisfying seeing so much attention brought to a intellectual sport. I hope at least some of it will stick around.

pdknsk 5 hours ago 0 replies      
I'm not a particularly good player, but the match was rather boring IMO, other than game 9, which Anand cut short with his blunder. I wonder if the dull first game, described by Anand as a "satisfactory draw with black pieces", set the tune for the remaining games.
ktd 5 hours ago 2 replies      
This is actually a good example of why I'm not particularly interested in chess anymore-- a game that's that heavy on draws and where so many of the situations are adaptations of well-known positions simply isn't that thrilling. I really enjoyed chess when I was a kid, but the better I became and the more I learned about it the less I found it a compelling game.
wavesounds 4 hours ago 0 replies      
I wish they gave the girl announcer access to the laptop as well so she could describe what she's saying using the screen just like the guy can.
3327 8 hours ago 6 replies      
Chess is amazing it blows my mind why simple tools and games like this are not incorporated in some 'fun' way into the education system. By 'fun' I mean that if children were told to play chess they would not. A system would be need to be designed so that they look forward to chess class as they do for PE and art.
xfax 8 hours ago 0 replies      
A well-deserved win. Can't wait to see what else Magnus goes on to accomplish.
jordanmessina 8 hours ago 1 reply      
Press conference is live right now for anyone interested: http://chennai2013.fide.com/fide-world-chess-championship-20...
JonFish85 6 hours ago 0 replies      
But has he played Judah Friedlander?
KedarMhaswade 4 hours ago 1 reply      
Brilliant! Magnanimous. I am a Vishy fan, but this match was really one-sided when Vishy faltered at critical moments. Does it mean age matters? Will Vishy rebound? I hope so, but perhaps it's the sad reality that I acknowledge -- better player won and the problem with the chess world (the number 1 elo-rated player was not the WC for so long) got corrected.

Where do we go from here?

reidmain 4 hours ago 4 replies      
As someone who played chess as a child but gave up after high school what are some apps that would get me back into the game?
oconnor0 4 hours ago 0 replies      
Is the site down for anyone else?
rikacomet 8 hours ago 3 replies      
Now what the heck happened in the end? Anand gave up a knight advantage, purposedly for a clear cut draw. I have no clue why he did that this time.

He took queen with queen, clearly, knowing it would be lost to king, and then again the pawn with knight. He had a knight, of all things!

lukekarrys 5 hours ago 0 replies      
You can watch IM Danny Rensch & GM Ben Finegold review the game right now on http://www.chess.com/tv
fedvasu 6 hours ago 0 replies      
Honest Question : So now Chess will be more fashionable game?
RLC 6 hours ago 2 replies      
Magnus seems more like a guy I could invite over for a couple of beers. No offense on Anand he seem to be more like a KOOL-AID type of kid and always a boy scout but a douche!
RLC 6 hours ago 3 replies      
Of course he won the name alone speaks for itself "Magnus!" Just fucking HUGE at anything you can think of! Compared to Viswanathan which sounded like a vegtable ready to be consumed or a rubbing oil or even like a dip for your prata.
How to design a class stackoverflow.com
129 points by SandB0x  5 hours ago   54 comments top 12
azov 3 hours ago 4 replies      
Let's try this advice. Say, we're solving Hanoi Towers [1]. So, we're going to have rods, and disks, and rods are going to have the number of disks on them, and disks are going to have size, and probably a reference to the disk underneath, and a reference to the disk on top, and maybe also weight and color... and by the end of the day instead of a 10-line snippet [2] we're going to have Enterprise Java Beans.

No, it doesn't mean that OOP is awful - it just means that this particular way of modeling a problem is a recipe for over-engineering.

Start with the simplest thing that works. That thing will probably be just a function. Grow it from there. If it gets too big, split it. If you find that you pass the same 12 parameters to a bunch of functions - factor out a class. If you do the same thing in a bunch of classes - abstract it out. Keep it DRY [3]. Keep it SOLID [4]. Rinse and repeat. This way you end up with a useful class hierarchy - and OOP won't be awful.

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tower_of_Hanoi

[2] http://rosettacode.org/wiki/Towers_of_Hanoi

[3] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don't_repeat_yourself

[4] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SOLID_(object-oriented_design)

rayiner 4 hours ago 6 replies      
Object oriented programming is awful, and this answer describes why. It shifts focus from algorithms to objects. As a result, you get these over-designed programs with lots of objects that have lots of methods, and the algorithm gets totally obscured.

See: http://steve-yegge.blogspot.com/2006/03/execution-in-kingdom....

jamesli 2 hours ago 0 replies      
It is utterly ill-advised. Software design is about abstraction, to make code modular, flexible, and extensible. It doesn't matter it is OOP or FP. Both approaches have their own advantages and limitations.

The dogmatic answer is misleading. It might be ok to introduce OOP to new programmers, to open a door for programmers who are only familiar with procedural programming. For any experienced programmers, if they don't believe in this dogma, I have to say this is not a right career for them.

asveikau 5 hours ago 1 reply      
I think this seems a little too existential. What is more important, that you classified the right nouns and verbs in your Paws and Dogs, or that your code works?

In my view OOP is all about sane interfaces between components. In your internal code however, you should feel free to let your implementation details and data structures drive the flow, and not con yourself into writing OO spaghetti, that type of code written by inexperienced types who "heard somewhere to use classes" and can only think in classes, and the abstraction serves to obfuscate rather than clarify.

spion 1 hour ago 0 replies      
1. First, write some use case scenarios/specs in order to get a better understanding of the problem (for libraries this is README.md, for user-facing programs its the user's problem and the solution's workflow)

2. Write the code the way you would ideally want it to work, top-down. Imagine that you're in fantasy land. Don't worry about it being wrong or impossible to do that way. That will be corrected later.

Use classes to express blueprints for tiny worker machines that work on data, not the data itself. Use classes to simulate entities.

A user is not the user's personal information - thats a data structure. A user class makes sense in a testing framework where you want to simulate the process of a user visiting a website.

A button is a worker machine that can detect a set of inputs and call attached functions. A list is a worker machine that can keep items and update the screen based on its scroll position. A stream is a worker that can be customized to process incomming data packets in a certain way, and its output can be connected to another stream.

Think of classes as tiny single-purpose computers or simulators.

3. Express details about the desired outputs of that top-down code as tests.

4. This is a good time to write all the data structures to represent your data. You can use relational modeling here even if you're not using a relational database (or any kind of database), but you can also use pointers/references instead of foreign keys.

Model the data structures for all data (including computed data), not just input or stored data.

You can also do this before step 2. but in that case you will be tempted to write your code to operate directly on the lowest level data structures, instead of making it look clean and simple.

5. Try to make the tests pass.

6. If its impossible to implement or you realize its not a good idea to implement it that way, tweak the test a bit then change your code and data structures as you get a better understanding of the problem.

7. Once you're satisfied with the test, you can stop.

8. If the future of the program requires you to adapt it, keep working like that over the existing code. The tests give you some reasonable assurance that it still solves the old variant of the problem, while new tests will ensure that the code sanely solves newer problems too.

ExpiredLink 4 hours ago 0 replies      
Actually, only #1 and #2, "simple statements about what these objects will be doing", are relevant. The 'nouns' points are misleading at best. OO is all about behavior ('services'), not about data. A class doesn't encapsulate data, it encapsulates state. That's a big difference that many OO aficionados don't realize.Another source of confusion is that in some OO languages 'everything' has to be a class. A Java class in many cases isn't a class in terms of OO. Java Beans e.g. certainly are not OO classes.
zwieback 1 hour ago 0 replies      
It's interesting to note that the question was "how to design a class", which to me sounds like a question about static structure, e.g. what data members and methods will the class have. Most of the discussion on this and the SO page mixes in OOD, OOP with the original question and then throws in some inappropriate OO vs. FP tangents.

It's important to remember that there's a lot of, for lack of a better word, "class-oriented design" which typically tries to model the static structure of the physical world or some artefacts of the programming environment.

In a completely separate world there's what I would call OO design and programming which is more concerned about the interaction of actual objects aka. instances of classes. Coming from the statically typed world the distinction is often unclear but for the original Smalltalkers and other OO purists object orientation was never about classes.

jofer 1 hour ago 0 replies      
And another one of Ivo's set of dog paw questions randomly become popular! The guy has a knack for asking good questions and getting good answers.
odonnellryan 5 hours ago 2 replies      
I liked this a lot, but do we think all those steps are needed? I feel like it can definitely be simplified, and that this is even scary for people new to Python and OOP.
blahbl4hblahtoo 5 hours ago 0 replies      
I really enjoyed this...the upvoted answer was really helpful. I'm going to use it tonight when I get home and can work on a personal project.
xtr 4 hours ago 0 replies      
Thanks, I also found this very beneficial.
talles 4 hours ago 1 reply      
Surprisingly not marked as 'too abroad' or something like that on SO...

I guess on 2010 people were more light on that

How License-Plate Scanners Are Eroding Our Privacy popularmechanics.com
35 points by jamesbritt  2 hours ago   24 comments top 6
jrockway 15 minutes ago 0 replies      
You already gave up your rights when you agreed to "implied consent". This one isn't even in the Constitution.
alpeb 1 hour ago 1 reply      
This reminded me of this pic, trying to sql-inject a license plate system: http://landofthefreeish.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/sql-i...
auctiontheory 48 minutes ago 1 reply      
Here's what the police in my town are doing:http://www.almanacnews.com/news/2013/06/04/the-unfiring-of-a...
eliteraspberrie 1 hour ago 3 replies      
There is very little which is less private than a license plate. They are explicitly designed to be as public as possible, as they should be.
cjaredrun 1 hour ago 3 replies      
What about having some sort of UV LED light that would shine above or below your plates so as to obscure any cameras?
brndnmtthws 1 hour ago 2 replies      
Bicycle. Problem solved.
Primer on Bitcoin Taxation bitcointax.info
79 points by georgecmu  4 hours ago   30 comments top 6
gamblor956 3 hours ago 4 replies      
I just wrote an article about US tax implications regarding Bitcoin holdings (not transactions! transactions are easy, and well-covered on the Bitcoin wiki). Unfortunately it needs to wind its way through the editorial/fact-/cite-checking process, so it will be some time next year before it makes it into print.

If you have questions about US compliance obligations regarding Bitcoins held in non-US wallets (meaning every major exchange, such as BTCChina, BitStamp, MtGov, and BTC-e), feel free to ask and I'll try to respond over the course of the next day or two.

lucb1e 3 hours ago 1 reply      
Additional info for people from the Netherlands:

Owning Bitcoin and trading in Bitcoin for anything (goods or other currency) are legal as far as we know. Unless you own a business dealing with Bitcoin, all you need to do to be legal is add the profits that you make to your income. That's all. I'm not sure about the tax rules when you have a business in Bitcoin, but it's still legal to do anything with it.

hitchhiker999 16 minutes ago 0 replies      
Hmm, really? To effectively enforce this (in a BTC only world), they would need to constantly be de-anonymising the blockchain. That would require dark-pools to be illegal (in the long run), which would require a unified world government.

It's either that, or simply expect people to hand them money on good faith.

to3m 2 hours ago 0 replies      
Primer on Bitcoin Taxation in America...
stan503 2 hours ago 3 replies      
What is someone were to trade one cryptocurrency for another?

For example, if I bought Litecoins with Bitcoins, and later sold for a gain in Bitcoins, how would I be taxed? From the article it seems I would only be taxed until I ultimately realized my gains in USD. Would I have to maintain a record of all my "altcoin" transactions in this case?

300bps 3 hours ago 1 reply      
I'm willing to bet the compliance rate on bitcoin taxation is going to be slightly lower than the compliance rate on people who buy gold coins at X and sell them at > X.

Section 9006 of the Affordable Care Act (ObamaCare) almost partially closed this loophole but it was repealed.

Why don't metals bond when touched together? stackexchange.com
92 points by laurent123456  5 hours ago   19 comments top 9
IvyMike 4 hours ago 1 reply      
You're just not pushing hard enough.


ChuckMcM 36 minutes ago 0 replies      
This was the primary source of 'stiction' in the disk drive business. Platters became optically smooth, read write heads similarly. When the heads "landed" on a spot where the lubricant had migrated away from they would bind so tightly the motor couldn't break them free. (old SparcStation drives you could take them out. give them a sharp twist along the platter's rotational access, and if you were lucky move the heads to a space they wouldn't bind to.)
tedsanders 3 hours ago 1 reply      
Fun fact: ultrasonic vibration can weld metals together (and this is used in modern wire bonders).


InclinedPlane 5 hours ago 1 reply      
This is a major reason why the practice of welding, and soldering, is so complicated.

A lot of what makes welding and soldering complicated is the need to remove, or avoid creation of, the oxide layers that inevitably form on the surfaces of metals. More so, these oxides form faster at higher temperatures. That's why solder wire and stick welding electrodes have flux cores or coatings, why MIG/TIG welding uses a shielding gas, and so on.

Balgair 1 hour ago 0 replies      

Cold welding is a big problem, and a debatable one, in spacecraft engineering due to the lack of oxides and the out-gassing of the oils in space vacuum.

samatman 2 hours ago 0 replies      
There is galling:


and galvanic corrosion:


In short, they do, given friction and/or moisture, and time.

seanalltogether 3 hours ago 1 reply      
Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't this why panning for gold in rivers was so prevalent through history? Flecks of gold would naturally cold weld over a millennium of being knocked around in the water.
meersoup 2 hours ago 0 replies      
ClojureScript Koans: Learn ClojureScript from inside your browser clojurescriptkoans.com
115 points by lazerwalker  7 hours ago   22 comments top 10
MBlume 3 hours ago 0 replies      
There are some good criticisms here about some of the discontinuities in difficulty, but first and foremost I really want to congratulate OP for doing something to address the instant gratification problem in learning to program. You can open this site in your browser and immediately start interacting with code rather than trying to get your java environment/editor/etc. set up, and that's fantastic, we really need more tools like this.
resu_nimda 4 hours ago 2 replies      
I like this, but it seems too cryptic for a true novice to actually learn from, especially if they've never been exposed to Lisp syntax. Who is the intended audience?

I see that it's something of a port of the Clojure Koans, has there been much feedback on that as to whether people are able to truly learn the language this way? I'm intrigued by new methods of instruction, but this seems like it would be a very frustrating trial-and-error game to a beginner, as there is virtually zero actual teaching. We're supposed to be making programming more accessible, not less. It seems like this kind of thing ends up as a fun toy/experiment for people who already know most of it.

It is very nice though.

terhechte 5 hours ago 3 replies      
This goes from easy/novice up to advanced level in a short amount of time. I did some koans until I arrived at functions/9 which is:

(= 25 ( ___ (fn [n] (* n n))))

I found this one to be not so trivial, granted I'm still a novice clojure user, but I still think that it went up rather steeply here.

I think if they really want to introduce new people to ClojureScript, then the koans need a friendly help system and the ability to show the solution and have it explained to you.

It should also have a short introduction in Lisp that explains prefix notation / s-expressions. I think that would make things a lot easier.

michaelsbradley 6 hours ago 1 reply      
Very nice!

Would like to see it feature a ToC so one can easily move between the koan categories.

krcz 4 hours ago 1 reply      
#5 in sequence comprehensions part doesn't seem to work for me. I've checked my solution in console clojure interpreter and it evaluates to true there.
agentultra 2 hours ago 0 replies      
Interesting... I would second adding some hints after n failed attempts. You could just expect the user to go off to google but it'd be a nice touch to get a small hint in-place.
blossoms 1 hour ago 0 replies      
http://clojurescriptkoans.com/#higher-order-functions/10 got me good. Why is it one needs to use `(count a) (count b)` instead of just `a b` like worked when comparing string lengths in a previous ClojureScript Koan?
graue 3 hours ago 0 replies      
Awesome site!

Having done a few Clojure projects lately, I got most of these right immediately, but there were a few I messed up. It would be cool if you could go through these flashcard-style: one try for each koan in a category, then re-show the ones you got wrong, and repeat until you get them all right.

TallboyOne 4 hours ago 0 replies      
koanita 4 hours ago 0 replies      
I was playing with this, but is a little long and I wanted to know if the end is near, so add a percentage bar also it would be useful to have an index of topics.
As Customers Seek Privacy, AeroFS Emerges With Stealthy File Sharing Software wsj.com
85 points by newy  6 hours ago   30 comments top 11
yurisagalov 5 hours ago 3 replies      
I want to quickly distinguish our Hybrid Cloud offering from our Private Cloud offering since I thinks this may keep coming up in this thread.

In the Hybrid Cloud offering (this is our 'classic' or previous offering that's been available for quite some time) we don't store any data on our servers. However, because some communication does happen with our servers (e.g. for registration), we heard from businesses and enterprises that they would like a completely on-prem solution to guarantee no data goes to our servers.

This completely on-prem solution is the AeroFS Private Cloud. It's a virtual machine that is packaged as either an OpenStack image or an OVF/OVA file (supporting VMWare/Virtualbox), and in this VM absolutely no communication happens with our servers, period.

(and you can easily verify that)

nacs 1 hour ago 0 replies      
I've been using AeroFS for over a year now and its fantastic.

I switched from Dropbox to Aero for all my home computers (of which I have Windows and Linux desktops and Mac laptops) and the unlimited storage (as much as your home computers can hold) is great. Plus the files are only synced within your own computers so security/privacy is much better than uploading all your files to a public service like Dropbox.

The only negative as compared to Dropbox is that their client is not as efficient (it's Java based and takes a bit more resources than Dropbox).

davidjgraph 5 hours ago 0 replies      
What interest me at the moment, as someone who builds a web application without any user management or storage (i.e. purely to integrate which other storage solutions), is how to integrate with solutions like this behind the firewall.

I get asked this question probably 10-15 times a month and the rate is growing. The problem is that without there being a common solution that application vendors can share, they all seem to end up implementing something custom and that looks a complete mess.

Anyone know of any inside-firewall storage solution that implements something like this, or is the best available solution LDAP + WebDav and do the rest yourself?

pwnna 6 hours ago 2 replies      
AeroFS is not open source.. and really in this climate we can't say it is going to guarantee privacy.

(This does not mean that OSS guarantees privacy, it is just a necessary condition.)

jkahn 1 hour ago 0 replies      
I've been watching AeroFS for quite a while. How does it compare to Citrix ShareFile? It sounds like they are both in the same problem space.
fatbat 4 hours ago 0 replies      
Anyone know of a simple comparison chart with the many options available now? (eg- AeroFS/BTSync/SpiderOak/Mega/Bitcasa/Cubby/Younited/Dropbox)
Pxtl 5 hours ago 1 reply      
I'd rather see proper home-hosted solutions - a nice turnkey OwnCloud/IMAP/webmail box. The problem is that devices like this would also have to act as your wifi router to get proper turnkey user-friendly behavior.
johncoltrane 3 hours ago 0 replies      
Customers who seek privacy won't find it in the cloud. If they want to keep their stuff private, they should keep them for themselves.
natch 2 hours ago 0 replies      
What does this give me that I couldn't build with rsync?

I'm not challenging it, just wondering.

bcx 6 hours ago 0 replies      
Congrats on the WSJ article.
galapago 3 hours ago 1 reply      
I'm getting "404: Page Not Found"..
Show HN: Hungry Henri, a light and physics puzzler my first iOS game hungryhenri.com
10 points by dcre  1 hour ago   2 comments top
yohann305 1 hour ago 1 reply      
I like the originality in using light/absence of light as being part of the game mechanics.

What have you found challenging during the whole process?

Turntable.fm Shutting Down So Company Can Focus On Turntable Live Events techcrunch.com
13 points by hackhackhack  1 hour ago   2 comments top
zachlatta 1 hour ago 1 reply      
HTML5 game written in 0 lines of JS codepen.io
340 points by golergka  13 hours ago   96 comments top 31
golergka 12 hours ago 2 replies      
Obligatory information:

I'm not the original author. It was posted on russian HN/Reddit clone Habrahabr: http://habrahabr.ru/post/203048/Habrahabr featured translations of "30 LOC of javascript" topics from HN, some people continued it for a bit, and this one was created as an ironic answer to that.

networked 6 hours ago 0 replies      
Nice. There are also "games" [1] made with just GLSL shaders in WebGL. There are several of those on Shadertoy but I particularly like https://www.shadertoy.com/view/MsX3Rf.

[1] Edit: "Games" in scare quotes because the lose state doesn't (can't) persist in a way that requires player action.

jayflux 10 hours ago 4 replies      
If you leave your ship in the far bottom right corner, you will never get killed
taopao 52 minutes ago 1 reply      
If I was a mod, I would relabel these submissions to "extend your e-penis in 0 lines of JS."
tfb 12 hours ago 1 reply      
This is pretty cool. Although, I'm having trouble clicking on the bonuses and don't see my score. I must be overlooking something and cba to decipher how this works at this hour.

Edit: Managed to make it the whole way through by leaving the ship in the bottom left. And then when the bonuses kept flying by uncontested because the game was "over", I was able to click on them after a few tries. The issue must have been that the cursor wasn't where I thought it was. Still very cool!

ThePinion 12 hours ago 1 reply      
This is brilliant. It makes me really stop and think about how far we've come from the days where HTML4 and CSS2 were everyone's limit.
idProQuo 11 hours ago 0 replies      
Off topic, but I had to make an Android game for my Junior year final project, and I think I used that exact same space ship sprite (it was an Asteroids clone with motion controls).
gprasanth 11 hours ago 0 replies      
Hack:Right Click and just move your cursor on the context menu. Now the enemies can't see you + you get to teleport where ever you want! :D
nollidge 6 hours ago 0 replies      
What am I supposed to be seeing here? Chrome 31, Windows 7 x64. Maybe my proxy server is screwing something up, because I mouse over the blue area, and then the scroll bar goes wonky for a bit, and then it turns red and says "game over".

EDIT: yep, definitely proxy, seems all the stuff from http://nojsgame.majorov.su/ is blocked.

jawr 12 hours ago 0 replies      
Awesome. I would have been tempted to call it HTML5 game written in 30 lines of JS and then had some defunct JS code..
chrismorgan 10 hours ago 0 replies      
Assigning a tabindex of -1 to the bonus inputs would stop people like me from getting all ten bonuses by repeating {tab, space}.
lhgaghl 7 hours ago 0 replies      
This really illustrates the true power of the web. No construct has a stable definition. If we can't or don't want to use JS to write algorithms, just add new features to CSS until it has the ability. Nobody needs a reliable format to write static documents. We need to keep extending amending extending amending extending amending (while trying to be backwards compatible)!
rplnt 11 hours ago 11 replies      
I'd bet that Doom, a much better game, was written in 0 lines of JS as well (in the same sense). I fail to see how is this trend of "doing something the horrible way" interesting. Just because it's unconventional?
Aardwolf 12 hours ago 0 replies      
Would have funnier if it was in Dart :)
pearjuice 3 hours ago 0 replies      
Technically this is still HTML4.
AndrewBissell 12 hours ago 3 replies      
Love the tongue-in-cheek title.
blt 7 hours ago 0 replies      
collision detection is based on full bounding boxes. this is especially annoying on the big ships.
fakeanon 9 hours ago 2 replies      
"This Site Totally Doesn't Work Without JavaScript.

Like, at all. Sorry. If you enable it and reload this page you'll be good to go. Need to know how? Go here." Okay, that's funny.When Javascript is on: Ah, Nice little game. Interested how it needs a .js file with just a comment. Can we improve this to remove it?

Edit: oh, so maybe the overall website need JS, not the game(?).

DonPellegrino 3 hours ago 0 replies      
I find it amusing that the content is served from a .su (Soviet Union) domain.
deletes 12 hours ago 0 replies      
Moving the ship with scroll wheel is a feature is suppose.
msl09 9 hours ago 0 replies      
Awesome, the bonus is the this is perhaps the lightest JS game that I have seen in a while.
nashashmi 9 hours ago 0 replies      
I saw the code and a whole lot of -webkit- flags so I tried it in firefox, and it still worked.
jheriko 12 hours ago 0 replies      
that is pretty genius... even if its a rubbish game :)
Pete_D 3 hours ago 0 replies      
I'm impressed this is possible in pure CSS. What implications does this have for security/privacy? Should I be blocking CSS in addition to JS now just in case?
jpincheira 12 hours ago 0 replies      
Haha, it's funnily amazing!
adam12 8 hours ago 1 reply      
0 lines of JS and 500+ lines of CSS
cauliturtle 12 hours ago 0 replies      
wilhil 11 hours ago 1 reply      
Technically, there is one line! :P
vinitool76 10 hours ago 4 replies      
Time waste.. Wonder why these kind of things come on top of HN. What does this project teaches us? Nothing..
emirozer 11 hours ago 1 reply      
hacker news post quality down by %5 by this post , special thanks to the people upped this to number 1
Germany to introduce minimum wage thelocal.de
15 points by lelf  53 minutes ago   9 comments top 4
rayiner 23 minutes ago 1 reply      
See: http://www.forbes.com/sites/leonardburman/2012/03/14/raising....

I don't think the minimum wage has been a great success anywhere it's been implemented, so I'm a bit surprised Germany would adopt it now instead of trying something more forward-looking. The conservatives in Germany could have preempted this I think by proposing some sort of minimum income like in Switzerland.

bentruyman 5 minutes ago 0 replies      
How does Germany calculate "unemployment" differently from the United States?


jsnk 21 minutes ago 2 replies      
Wow, that's amazing that Germany never had minimum wage!

To be honest, this seems like a good example that not having minimum wage doesn't necessarily lead to pre-industrial age wage slavery that academics are always worried should minimum wage disappear.

fleitz 27 minutes ago 2 replies      
As much as I'd love to talk about this it seems much more political than tech related, are there any issues of tech workers getting less than 8.50? What's the angle...
Richest Bitcoin Addresses bitcoinrichlist.com
127 points by cfontes  8 hours ago   155 comments top 24
chrisacky 7 hours ago 9 replies      
Can you imagine how many of these BTCs are actually lost forever.

Look at this address:


The last time this address was touched was 2009, and has an even 8,000 coins (back in the day, this only amounted to 320 mined blocks. You could do that in what?... a few hours/half days?[1]) The owner probably ran his system for a few hours, collected 8000 coins, thought it was a ridiculous concept and deleted everything from his system.

[1]: https://blockchain.info/charts/total-bitcoins?timespan=all&s...

antonios 6 hours ago 1 reply      
Note, this isn't a list of rich people, it's a list of rich _addresses_, and one can have many addresses.
res0nat0r 8 hours ago 10 replies      
Question: How hard/impossible would it be for me as a US citizen to cash in on a large lot like that? Say I want 10 million dollars for some partying I want to do for New Years.

It seems some people have mega riches, but is it actually feasible for me to realize that money (in US Dollars, deposited to my Chase bank account)?

retube 8 hours ago 1 reply      
I sure hope those guys are keeping their keys safe.

Also - there's 4 addresses with almost exactly the same number of coins (40000) who all last transacted on april 9. Surely connected.

Also also: why do so many btc balances end with ".0411"?

stereo 8 hours ago 0 replies      
This analysis linking the richest address to Silkroads DPR is interesting: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=310600.0
taude 7 hours ago 1 reply      
I know nothing of BitCoin, but could one figure out which Address belongs to the Winklevoss brothers? Does it matter?

[1] http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-switch/wp/2013/11/09...

unethical_ban 7 hours ago 1 reply      
You got hellbanned, saneshark.
cfontes 8 hours ago 1 reply      
I wonder if Satoshi is amongst those...
chrislomax 6 hours ago 0 replies      
Why when you click on the wallet does the last transaction on some of them go to 2013 when the list says 2010?


JimmaDaRustla 7 hours ago 1 reply      
Scrolling down, there are addresses with an even 10000 bitcoins. If these all belong to the same person (trying to mitigate risk by spreading across wallets?) then it adds up to about 186 million...
knowaveragejoe 3 hours ago 0 replies      
Interesting that many of them were last used within a few seconds or minutes of each other. Indicates to me that one person or party is controlling quite a few big wallets.
tracker1 7 hours ago 0 replies      
The most surprising thing to me is the number of those addresses that haven't had a transaction in several years now... how many of those people lost their "wallet" so to speak?
csomar 5 hours ago 1 reply      
Interesting as BitCoin proponents complain about Bankers greed and how 1% own a huge percentage of the wealth. It seems that a really small percentage of addresses owns most of the BitCoin wealth. And these addresses might be owned by even less people.
darkmethod 6 hours ago 0 replies      
Back in early 2011 I ran a BTC miner for awhile on a spare system and generated around 18 BTC. I bartered them later in 2011 for a pair of movie tickets to take my wife out to see Moneyball (ironically).
sktrdie 7 hours ago 1 reply      
What kind of repercussion will this have in the future, say, when Bitcoin will be more widely utilized? It seems to me that it might only cause an issue to Bitcoin's market during these initial stages, where a rich bitcoin owner could fluster the market by selling large amounts. But in the long run, there will always be the rich and the poor. Or is there something I'm missing?
TheSisb2 1 hour ago 0 replies      
I don't think this richlist is a list of different people. Look how many have 10k BTC flat. A lot of these are spare wallets.
loceng 5 hours ago 0 replies      
Who are these people? And if any of them are out there reading this thread -- reach out to me and let me know if want to invest in something that will help adoption of Bitcoin, which will result in its value continuing to go up...
dangoldin 7 hours ago 0 replies      
Pretty interesting to look at the last transaction date. For the most part it looks as if they've been pretty inactive lately.
wdvh 7 hours ago 1 reply      
Can we link IP addresses and hence approximate locations to these wallets using announced transactions on the network? That might be an interesting visual. Maybe not because I doubt anybody was logging bitcoin network traffic in the early days. But doing that even starting today might turn out to be useful. And there's little doubt NSA and friends are likely already doing this.
exit 8 hours ago 1 reply      
doesn't the fbi haul belong on at the top of this list?


FridayWithJohn 7 hours ago 3 replies      
Question: How was this list generated, ie: how do you find out which hash number has a lot of bitcoins in it? I thought that was completely hidden.
sbjustin 7 hours ago 1 reply      
Top 100 richest people using bitcoin control 20% of bitcoins.
joeblau 7 hours ago 1 reply      
Why are there so many at the EXACT same amount (71-94)?
Siecje 6 hours ago 1 reply      
Litecoin doesn't have this problem.
How Authy Built A Fault-Tolerant Two-Factor Authentication Service leanstack.io
19 points by ngrandy  2 hours ago   2 comments top 2
lsh123 10 minutes ago 0 replies      
Just my $0.02:

OpenVPN has a built-in 2-factor authentication based on the X509 certificates: you need to have a valid certificate together with a valid password to connect to the VPN service. SMS/phone based authentication does not add another factor since it is also a "what you have" type of authentication (i.e. your laptop can be stolen in exactly the same time as your phone is stolen). Of course, X509 certificates work the best in the enterprise environment but that's the OpenVPN target market anyway.

danielpal 2 hours ago 0 replies      
Hi Daniel from Authy here. I helped with the design of this infrastructure last year and I was a little shocked we weren't able to do automatic fail-over with PostgreSQL.

I'd be interested to know if anyone here is running a Postgres pool that handles automatic fail-over how are you doing it? Specifically which watch-dog are you using, how are they handling slave to master promotion, how do you add more slaves automatically and how do you load-balance.

Fed up with slow and pricey Internet, cities start demanding gigabit fiber arstechnica.com
48 points by RougeFemme  5 hours ago   16 comments top 8
AdamFernandez 32 minutes ago 1 reply      
I'm all for the market in most instances, but I really hope Internet access starts to be treated like a utility in the United States. It is approaching the necessity of electricity a century ago (or water, gas, roadways, etc.) The market had zero incentive to invest so heavily in these utilities for such a drawn out return before the government financed the basic infrastructure. I know the analogy isn't perfect for a few reasons, but imagine where we would be if all these other necessities were privatized?
breckinloggins 1 hour ago 0 replies      
As an Aggie and former Bryan / College Station resident (of 15 years), it's fantastic to see them taking a lead on this.

BCS has always been pretty good for high speed internet (I had 2Mbps cable in 1999), but the price disparity between residential and business is insane, and speed increases have stalled somewhat in recent years. Suddenlink is pretty good, but that area has been the target of rather frequent cable company acquisitions and mergers (TCA -> Cox -> Suddenlink just while I was there), so it's not a foregone conclusion that things will stay "ok".

I love living in SF, but I have to admit I kind of like the idea that my "little Texas town" will probably get gigabit and a sensible fiber infrastructure long before SF or most parts of Silicon Valley will.

Amadou 4 hours ago 1 reply      
"The old model was 'everybody has to have service,' which is where cable and telephone came from," Smith said. "This is a model that says, 'we can be patient while demand builds.' We'd like to see some of our most disadvantaged served, but we're not starting out with 'everybody must get service immediately.'"

My understanding is that Chattanooga's gigabit service was rolled out as quickly as they could as limited by funding to everyone within the service area. My understanding is that they are the only city in the US with such complete gigabit coverage.

I've read that they are now selling consulting services to other communities looking to do gigabit rollouts. I'd like to know what their take is on that philosophy since it seems to be the opposite of what they did and they seem to be significantly exceeding revenue targets.


VladRussian2 3 minutes ago 0 replies      
having the same DSL connection over several few years my price has gradually risen from $26 to $40 per month. I'd say something is really wrong with a technology sector if it has such negative price/performance dynamics.
ihsw 4 hours ago 1 reply      
Maybe the municipalities should start asking Google why they were rejected. I'm extremely skeptical that cities are opening up to competitive fiber offerings -- a lot of it is political wrangling that most aren't even willing to deal with.

Cut the red tape and they will come. Fuck the exclusivity wheeling and dealing.

HeyLaughingBoy 3 hours ago 0 replies      
Gigabit! I only dream of that. I'm happy that my ISP claims I can get 30 MBps here 10 miles outside town.
massysett 1 hour ago 4 replies      
Genuine question: why the obsession with gigabit? What applications demand it?
beachstartup 2 hours ago 0 replies      
here's some data points:

we're located in santa monica / west LA, in the middle of town, and our building had, until last year, had the following options for bandwidth:

* adsl ... $40/month for 3/.25 megabit

* EoC (sdsl) ... $1500/month for 15/15 megabit

* Bonded T1 / T3 ... insanely expensive.

Time warner business class moved in with fiber to the building and now we have:

* cable modem over coax muxed into fiber switch @ roughly $300/month for consumer-level speeds (30/5 megabit). which is what we use right now.

* Fiber to fiber (ethernet switch on customer premises):

10/10 megabit starting @ $1300/month (worse than EoC above)

40/40 megabit $2400/month

1gbps/1gbps for $14,000/month (yes $14 THOUSAND/month.

we pay $400/month at the datacenter for each of our 1gbit/1gbit links w/ a 100 megabit commitment.

Show HN: Simple tools to manage sound popuparchive.org
13 points by bspace  1 hour ago   3 comments top 3
kookster 1 hour ago 0 replies      
And for those who care to look, it's AGPL and uses angular.js as the front-end: https://github.com/PRX/pop-up-archive/
pdgoodman 1 hour ago 0 replies      
Nice job, bspace and team!
CastleRoogna 1 hour ago 0 replies      
This is a wonderfully designed system. Just looked at the website, beautiful design and a great project.
Virgin Galactic to accept Bitcoin [video] cnbc.com
127 points by nightTrevors  9 hours ago   89 comments top 11
cs702 7 hours ago 6 replies      
It seems that with every passing day, another prominent institution or business starts accepting Bitcoin for payment, Virgin Galactic being the latest example. In just a few years, Bitcoin has gone from experiment to global phenomenon.

I wouldn't be surprised if in coming years at least some bitcoin users start measuring their wealth in bitcoins, and therefore also evaluating exchange rates, not in terms of how many US dollars, euros, etc. they can buy with a bitcoin, but the other way around: what is the cost, in bitcoins, of a single dollar, euro, etc.?

Looking at exchange rates in this manner changes people's perspective on volatility, which is always a relative measure. For example, since the beginning of this year, the price of a US dollar has declined by more than 98%, from BTC 0.074 to just over BTC 0.001, which makes the dollar look extremely volatile!


PS. I'm NOT saying the dollar is extremely volatile! I'm also NOT saying that Bitcoin is more stable! What I'm saying is that if and as Bitcoin adopters start measuring their wealth in bitcoins, their perspective on what is and isn't volatile will change, as demonstrated by my example.


Edits: expanded second and third paragraphs; added PS.

grey-area 8 hours ago 5 replies      
When businesses actually price products or services in a digital currency as opposed to accepting it, we'll know it has arrived and is ready to rival national currencies.
scott_meade 7 hours ago 4 replies      
"she paid in bitcoin, which was transferred into actual dollars "so there's a fixed price ... [and] we can actually pay her money back, if she changes her mind"

Seems no different than if the buyer had sold her Bitcoin and paid Virgin Galactic in cash. The real trick will be when they can accept Bitcoin, keep the Bitcoin, and make any refunds and adjustments in Bitcoin.

runako 7 hours ago 0 replies      
Finally, a service that can be denominated in integral Bitcoin values.
Angostura 6 hours ago 1 reply      
Sounds to me as if Mr Branson has a bunch of Bitcoin and would like to cash-in early next week.
napolux 6 hours ago 0 replies      
Just marketing IMHO. You say you'll accept bitcoins and then you'll have 10s of articles talking about your company.
shocks 7 hours ago 1 reply      
$250,000 for a flight. That puts it at about 333 BTC right now.
oleganza 8 hours ago 0 replies      
Another way to invest in Bitcoin when exchanges are not very liquid: accept BTC at the current rate and boost the value and awareness by making a bold move.
ChikkaChiChi 6 hours ago 0 replies      
Metaphorically this is fantastic. What better way to pay for a barely controlled rapid ascent and descent than with a highly unstable 'currency'!
knodi 5 hours ago 1 reply      
the problem is getting BTC in the US. You have to a P2P sale which most likely at some point will lead to you getting scammed. The banks need to offer a currency exchange from USD to BTC. And then bitcoins are going to really take off.
pkallberg 6 hours ago 0 replies      
This is a great marketing stunt!
Ionic A front-end framework for developing hybrid mobile apps in HTML5 ionicframework.com
127 points by ds_  9 hours ago   80 comments top 22
peterhunt 3 hours ago 2 replies      
Listen -- I know there's a lot of negativity on HN and I try not to add to it. But seeing mobile web succeed is something I'm pretty passionate about.

I played with the left nav example and it doesn't use inertia. This is one of the most ubiquitous interactions on mobile apps so it's probably one of the most important to get right. And while it's good by mobile web standards, the lack of inertia makes it feel completely and obviously wrong if you're comparing to native apps.

The lack of inertia is indicative of either not setting the bar high enough or not having the technical chops to implement it.

The reason this is a big deal is because mobile web's reputation is to cut corners like this and get 80% of the way there and then give up. That's why native is kicking mobile web's ass.

The worst part about this is the web can do a lot of this (for example, see the leftnav I built here http://petehunt.github.io/react-touch/), it's just that very few teams are doing it right (Sencha is one team doing it right). So the reason this post upsets me is because they call themselves a premier way to build native-like apps with web technologies and then just further the stereotype that web technologies can't compete. It really bugs me.

camus2 8 hours ago 4 replies      
> Native focused

How is it native focused? it's obviously an HTML/CSS/Javascript framework. It's not native to the plateform itself, since you are developping in a webview.

> the most advanced HTML5 mobile app framework - launched

it's basically some kind of Bootstrap + angularjs bundle. How is it more advanced than Sencha Touch for instance?

bsaul 8 hours ago 2 replies      
"Developping native mobile app in HTML 5" seems like something that would confuse a lot of people knowing technologies such as Titanium.

if i understood correctly, ionic is about "developping native looking mobile apps in HTML 5 / CSS". You don't create native UITableView using javascript calls forwarded to Objective-C Code, do you ?

yesimahuman 8 hours ago 1 reply      
Woke up to see my project here on HN, cool :)

We just released the alpha, and there are some really important things on our roadmap for the next few weeks: Android performance, list virtualization (for huge lists), better scroll performance, and fixing bugs. Right now Ionic projects feel best on iOS but we want to change that.

Let us know what you think as we work on the beta!

facorreia 7 hours ago 1 reply      
Looks interesting, but it's not for me. My customers are not all using the latest and greatest.

"Our compatibility starts at iOS 6 and Android 4.2. We will never support devices older than this."

xaritas 7 hours ago 3 replies      
First of all, thanks for this @yesiamhuman, I came across it a few days ago just when I was despairing of finding something with the right look and feel (somebody mentioned it in an earlier HN item about a curated list of CSS frameworks). It looks like it's exactly what I need.

For the project I have in mind, the client wants an HTML5 web app, not an App Store delivered container. On the docs, you state:

"Since mobile browsers often exhibit issues while in browsing mode that don't show while running under a "wrapped" native app, we recommend running all Ionic examples in a Desktop browser, PhoneGap or another native wrapper."

Can you elaborate on this a bit? What issues am I likely to see if I just deliver my project as an offline capable single page web app?

rralian 5 hours ago 0 replies      
Comment on the design of the homepage, there is nothing to visually draw the user's attention to content below the fold. When I loaded this page, it happened to be in a window at a perfect size to hide your overview content. I clicked around on a few pages before realizing it was on the homepage.


mmgutz 4 hours ago 0 replies      
I'm building a hybrid app right now. I can't see Angular and all its magic being a good fit. The provided browser controls in smart devices have horrible performance and are often several releases behind. Most are deceived thinking that a hybrid app that works well in a desktop browser will perform as well on smart devices. You will be disappointed. FWIW, I settled on Intel's App Framework after trying several popular frameworks.

As a side note, I'm surprised by how poor hybrid apps perform on Android. You would think Google of all companies would be pushing browser based technologies further.

thoughtpalette 6 hours ago 0 replies      
Looks awesome! I'm a huge angular fan and have been researching a bunch of frameworks and SaaS solutions for doing a mobile "app" so this should be awesome to get my feet wet!

Time for a weekend to-do app, because we don't have enough of them eh? :}

untog 3 hours ago 0 replies      
Ionic is modeled off of popular native mobile development SDKs, making it easy to understand for anyone that has built a native app for iOS or Android

Surely that's the wrong way around?

Geee 6 hours ago 1 reply      
How easy would it be to port a quite complex app from AngularJS/Bootstrap to Ionic and would it make sense?
bmelton 5 hours ago 0 replies      
> How it can be easier, awesome and simple for serious development?

It probably can't, depending on your definition of _serious_, but for 90% of the apps being built, this is perfectly suitable.

Regarding the app store, I see now reason why this wouldn't pass Apple critique -- they've been accepting Cordova-based applications often and for some time now.

As for what it offers, cross-platform publishing is a pretty big win for a bevy of developers that don't see the point in writing separate native apps for applications where native performance isn't terribly necessary.

My experience with Appgyver Steroids has been impressive. Performance is very good. Whether or not it could have been faster written natively vs. being compiled to native code is not substantially worth considering -- it's fast enough, by a large margin.

ancarda 8 hours ago 5 replies      
>Performance obsessed

>zero jQuery

Perhaps I've not been keeping up with the latest JavaScript news but is jQuery considered slow? jQuery 2 is a lot lighter and works well on mobiles.

tszming 8 hours ago 1 reply      
Some layout issues with Firefox for Android: https://www.dropbox.com/s/4q1svdsaqbqwkuc/Screenshot_2013-11...
cheeaun 7 hours ago 1 reply      
Is there like a demo app that we can try/download?
fit2rule 8 hours ago 0 replies      
I'm attaining all of the goals of this library with MOAI right now, still going strong .. funny thing is, it does require platform competence, but if you get your own VM and frameworks going, suddenly everything is a target.
danvoell 7 hours ago 0 replies      
Looks great, I'm excited to try it out on my next project.
krmmalik 8 hours ago 3 replies      
Non-developer here. Can someone explain how this compares to something like Titanium and what benefits it provides over other HTML5 Mobile Frameworks?
Bahamut 8 hours ago 2 replies      
Question - what does one gain from using this over raw Angular itself, or something like Yeoman for generating a scaffold?
skyfantom 8 hours ago 0 replies      
I think it's cool and could be usefull. I'll try in my next project. Thank you.)
danso 7 hours ago 1 reply      
Sorry to be a jerk, but just want it to look as good as possible...there is a typo up at the beginning of the lede copy:

Free and open source, Ionic offers a library of mobile-___optmizied___ HTML, CSS and JS components for building highly interactive apps. Built with Sass and optimized for AngularJS.

snrip 6 hours ago 0 replies      
How does Ionic relate to different screen sizes, orientations and resolutions? Would responsive layouts be viable or is that out of the scope? The way I see it now is that it is targeted at phones and not so much at tablets.

BTW, the word 'which' is in the wrong place on the components page: "The advantage here is that the devices Ionic which supports, all support flexbox."

BTW2: in the Getting Started guide, chapters 4 and 5 have no link to the next chapter at the bottom.

I don't care about your code challenge mattbasta.com
92 points by bastawhiz  3 hours ago   74 comments top 30
at-fates-hands 2 hours ago 3 replies      
I actually had one of these and I won't do another one either.

Here's the gist of how it went down:

1) first part was the "personality" interview. Two "HR" people blew smoke up my ass for about 30 minutes about how awesome my site and my work was, then asked me to do a "code challenge". I agreed - I mean, how bad could it be?

2) The code challenge. I was given a PSD with a straight forward design. Asked to code it, make sure it worked in legacy browsers, publish on a server and show them the code on GitHub

3) Passed and then was asked to come back and explain some of my coding decisions. I was told this was more for show and I was already in effect hired, I just had to pass this last hurdle. It turned out to be a very confrontational, inquisition type of an interview. Not at all the type of laid back code review I'm used it.

I got pretty frustrated by the two "Senior" devs who seemed to take great pride in tearing my code and my decisions apart. After my first heated exchange with one of the devs, I actually asked them how many of the sites listed in the gallery on their site they actually tested and validated the code on. They said "All of them, why do you ask?" I told them I actually ran all of their sites through the W3C validation site and none of them passed. Every single one had over 60 errors on it. I basically said, "If standards are so important to you, then why are you holding people who don't even work for your company to a higher standard than those who actually do?"

There was a long silence and then I finally spoke up and said, "Clearly, this company has its priorities in the wrong order. Thank you for time, but I'm not interested." and got up and walked out.

I got several worried calls from the company recruiter, but by then I was so pissed at how much of my time they had wasted, and vowed never to do something like it again.

justrudd 52 minutes ago 0 replies      
Many years ago (wow...almost 10 now...I'm so old...) I was given a phone screen and at the end of the screen I was given a question to code a solution to and email it in. Since this was for a job across the country, I figure what the hell.

The problem was -A man has to get a fox, a chicken, and a sack of corn across a river.He has a rowboat, and it can only carry him and one other thing.If the fox and the chicken are left together, the fox will eat the chicken.If the chicken and the corn is left together, the chicken will eat the corn.Write a program that will help the man make the correct decision and explain the operational complexity.

I was given an hour to come up with a solution. I worked on it about half-an-hour coming up with the algorithm. And then for some reason my brain keyed in on the "write a program" part of the question. So I wrote the following in C++ (from memory so may not be exact) -

  int main(int argc, char** argv) {      std::cout           << "Man takes chicken, leaves fox and corn, and returns" << std::endl          << "Man takes fox, leaves corn, and returns with chicken" << std::endl          << "Man leaves chicken and takes corn, leaves corn with fox, and returns" << std::endl          << "Man takes chicken back across" << std::endl;      return 0;  }
It was a program that would tell the man the correct way to get everything across the river.

Must have been an OK answer because I got flown up and ended up working for them for 4 years (before a series of bad jobs that have finally lead back to something good).

saumil07 10 minutes ago 0 replies      
Sigh - yet another hiring process complaint post. As an employer hopefully I can shed some light here.

a) If you are trying to hire 5 engineers, say, you need to talk to ~25 candidates at least. It's a competitive market. b) If you aim to talk to 25 candidates in a short period of time, you need to have SOME standard way to evaluate candidates if you don't want to just throw darts on the board. Being sloppy with process is bad for companies and the engineers and a waste of everyone's time. c) In order to create a standard process, you have a very limited # of options to work from. I've seen comments like "do a co-working day to get a real sense" or "do a contract and see them work with you daily" positioned as realistic options. They are not. If an engineer has an existing full-time job they don't have the time to do co-working days or contracts. d) The other options are 1) whiteboard interviews 2) coding challenges 3) some combination thereof. e) Lots of candidates hate whiteboard interviews. Lots of candidates hate coding challenges too. Neither is a perfect system but it's better than doing nothing or asking for co-working time. f) We use coding challenges at the top end but we time-box it to 3 hours. If someone asked us to pay for the time, we would happily do so. g) Our coding challenges have 3 different problems so candidates can pick whichever aligns best to skills. One problem is JavaScript-heavy and 2 others are Ruby/Rails-heavy. h) Several engineers on the team solved the coding challenges on a timed basis before we put them out to candidates. Doing otherwise would be stupid/unfair. i) In the few cases where we've been able to do 1-2 co-working days, we have offered to pay for the candidate's time. Not full freight consulting dollars but something that indicates our seriousness. j) In this case, the OP got caught by a dumb coding challenge to build a full website. But the headline paints with a broad brush because coding challenges by themselves are not evil. They are a tool that can be used well or poorly. That's all.

candybar 4 minutes ago 0 replies      
Every time this comes up, I find it quite depressing how everyone becomes so self-centered. Half the comments here are along the lines of: I'm good at X, but bad at Y, so X is a better way to judge programmers than Y and if you do Y, your process is broken because I'm awesome despite being bad at Y.

Another small fraction of the comments are: I don't care if you can't do X despite being good or won't do Y because it's a big hassle - the bug is a feature and it filters out people who are not into our instasnapsocialmobileresponsiveapp. Get real guys, no one's that into you, some people are just desperate. Pretending that you're some prestigious company where everyone wants to work doesn't make it so - you have to earn it and if you get there, you won't have to pretend because you'd get so many resumes that you'll be forced come up with a quick way to be selective.

The secret to hiring is just like what pg said about the secret to VC investing - get better at distinguishing good programmers from bad ones so that you don't need to waste so much of everyone's time to make a decision. Being indecisive, after being clearly presented with enough information is a sign of incompetence.

kohanz 1 hour ago 2 replies      
You have no idea how the "challenge" was completed. A candidate could have rent-a-coder-ed the project, refactored it a bit, and slapped their name on it.

Sure, if you ask no follow-up questions after the challenge is completed. However, with a few well-placed questions about the implementation and some inspection of the code, it'll be quite clear whether you're talking to the author or not.

We once gave a (non-web-dev) programming "challenge" (I thought it was a joke/insult given the candidate's claimed experience) to a senior dev candidate. Mind you, this was on-site. I even tested it by putting our newly hired grad to the test and he aced it within 20 minutes. We gave the candidate an hour to complete it (and added a 30 minute extension when he was struggling).

The challenge involved developing something against an SDK (interacting with a camera) and we gave him internet access and the SDK examples to work off of. In the end, he produced something not quite what we were asking, but he was sure to claim it as his work. Although it wasn't ideal, I was prepared to say that he "passed" the assignment, because he was close and I was sympathetic to factors of stress and nervousness.

As he was toured around the facility, I inspected the code and saw that he was completely passing off one of the SDK examples as his own work (diffs showed only two variable names had been changed). The reason his code didn't quite do what we wanted, is that he wasn't even able to tweak the SDK example to do what we asked. He was a complete fraud and never mind technical ability, we couldn't have dishonesty like that on the team.

Before that interview I thought those kind of challenges were a joke, but after this I saw their value. Of course, their value depends highly on how their are implemented and targeted, but dismiss their usefulness at your own peril.

henrik_w 2 hours ago 0 replies      
Even "small" programming assignments take a lot of time. Several years ago, I applied for a job as a developer for a financial trading system. The take-home assignment was to build a small trading system that received buy and sell orders from the command line, and executed trades when the price matched. The input was just: buy/sell, price and number of shares.

This functionality is pretty simple, but it still took many hours to code. My feeling was that they thought it would perhaps take an hour to do. It was fun and interesting to do, but it took much longer than I thought. I think the companies giving the challenges should have their own engineers do the task, so they get a good handle on how much they are asking from the applicant. And of course it also depends on if it is a buyer's or seller's market (jobwise that is, not in terms of my "trading" system). If there is a lot of competition for developers, maybe they should give too big projects.

goshx 2 hours ago 3 replies      
While I agree that the request to build, deploy and open source the code of a website is a bit too much, I think you are exaggerating a little bit on the why's you wouldn't do it.

"I'm not equipped to do your challenge" - really?

"Engineers aren't different" - again, really?

Rhetorical question: you don't want the job, do you?

I am not sure if the issue is with the hiring process, or with the candidates' ego here. Candidates. Plural. As the article's author doesn't seem to be the only one.

Apparently there is a lot of people that believe they are rockstars and they don't need the job, the job needs them.Challenges like this help to figure out non technical skills as well, like: how committed a candidate is; how much he wants that job.

I'd rather hire a junior that is committed than a senior that is not.

dustingetz 2 hours ago 1 reply      
Pro tip: these tests are filtering mechanism on only one candidate funnel. Go figure out a way to get in through another funnel. Impress someone at a meetup, send a targetted email. If you can't distinguish yourself from the masses, you are the masses.
jbcurtin2 1 hour ago 1 reply      
The worst thing about code-challenges, is they never give feed back.

We're sorry, but what you produced is not good enough. We're not going to tell you what you missed.

At least technology tells you what you missed. If you have a standard, have it documented so that I'm not firing a bullet into the dark. Chances are I'm just as good as you; but you won't know because I haven't seen your coding style. You're on my project, you code like me. I'm on yours, you better believe I'll code like you.

And then there is the times they like to dismiss you for it but have some other reason and use it as a cover. So you worry about your code not being perfect and you develop a ritual to validate yourself before it goes through a compiler. Yep, I write my code three(avg) times now. 10 lines, over and over until it's a effing poem. It's called ocd.

Coding challenges, pfft, worthless. There is only one company that I did a coding challenge for in the past year and it's because they were really awesome people. - I'm here to make a product and work with a team. I'm not here to explain shit to you just so you can tell me to look up the documentation. If I take the time to explain my code to you, you better well explain why you think something is better rather then telling me to google it.

fufff, I needed that.

dkasper 2 hours ago 1 reply      
Building a full production grade website seems extreme, but giving a prebuilt website to a front end candidate and asking them to add a few simple pages or features is basically fizzbuzz type vetting. I also like it when coding "challenges" are timeboxed to say 1-2 hours. This keeps the time expectations reasonable for both the interviewer who has to read a bunch of candidates' challenges and the interviewee who has to do them for (potentially) a bunch of gigs.

The type of coding challenge a company asks (interview questions also) can be one of the most important data points to use to judge a company's culture...

theg2 2 hours ago 2 replies      
If a company asked me that, I'd tell them thanks but no thanks and end the interview. Ask me a few questions, have me solve your riddles, see if I'd work well with your team/company. But building an entire production ready site? Ain't nobody got time for that.
darklajid 2 hours ago 0 replies      
I understand the point the author's trying to make.

For me, personally, this would be the better choice to judge my skills - and probably would lead to better chances for me to get the job. I suck at these braindead trick questions that are considered 'clever'. I'm not comfortable around a whiteboard only, being grilled by one or more other people while thinking.

I'm not slow, not really anyway. But I'm faster and better the more I know about the stuff at hand. I'll be good on the job, I'll suck solving math puzzles that some guy just read about in a book that ranks high on Amazon's list of code puzzle collections..

So - I'm glad that there's both. The author obviously would've preferred to show his skills live, in a discussion. This guy here would be happy to hand you a (small, mind you - I agree with the time-sink argument) finished project and discuss _that_ afterwards.

greenyoda 1 hour ago 0 replies      
I wonder whether the same companies that insist that job candidates spend a day of their lives on a "code challenge" are the same ones complaining about good developers being impossible to find.
websitescenes 2 hours ago 0 replies      
Totally agree. I am so busy creating and making real products, that I just don't have time for silly quizzes or challenges. If you like my work, hire me. If you don't, then don't waste my time. I was seeking employment in the Bay area briefly and did three code tests. Absolute waste of time that didn't reflect my skill, diligence or anything for that matter. After I realized that these techniques were the norm, I quit looking. I have way better things to do with my time.
llamataboot 2 hours ago 1 reply      
On the other hand, as someone currently looking for my first dev job, I'd /much/ rather have a take home code challenge, where I can work at my usual pace, with my usual tools, without stress than have to do a code challenge while someone hovers over my shoulder. The take homes have been time intensive - I would say the average one has taken about 15 hours to do, but I feel they much better reflect my ability to code than real time nervous coding.
redblacktree 1 hour ago 0 replies      
If you use a coding challenge as part of your hiring process, please take the time to give feedback to candidates.

I recently completed a code challenge, and I was told by the recruiter that there were "problems with it," but he didn't get into any specifics because he was just passing on the message, and no one else has called either. I look at it as a dodged bullet, since it's a sign that they don't respect my time. I expect that had I gotten the job, they wouldn't have respected my free time or created a good work/life balance. Regardless, it has left a bad taste in my mouth. After I've spent about 12 hours of my free time (in addition to my 40 hr/week job), the least they could do is give me 15 minutes of their time to call or write out some comments about it.

McGlockenshire 2 hours ago 1 reply      
We used to ask job candidates to do something similar.

Since then, publishing code samples became the normal thing to do, so we simply require code samples instead, and give out the coding task only when they have nothing at all to share with us.

If you're in the job market, publishing some sample code, even if it's just a throwaway toy instead of, say, a full blown OSS project, can be a great tool for people to evaluate you as a candidate.

billyjobob 2 hours ago 2 replies      
His complaints seem to be that this method of take-home-project is not as good as the method of hiring the candidate to work in the office temporarily for week's trial. That is true, but this is still superior to a typical interview. (Also not all candidates and not all employers can spare a week to do a trial.)

Nevertheless you should never agree to complete a full production project without being paid.

ForHackernews 2 hours ago 1 reply      
I happen to really like coding challenges. I much prefer them to a "technical interview" situation, which I find very stressful--trying to answer difficult questions in real time.

However, the coding challenges I've done for applications have always been in the vein of "solve this interesting puzzle and show us how you did it", not "do some boring day-to-day work, but do it for free".

moron4hire 1 hour ago 0 replies      
I get approached all the time by recruiters who supposedly love my work and want me to interview with their clients. It's getting harder to tell them that I'm not interested in a job. My consulting is doing okay and I'm actually starting to hire out some work. Why would I give that up, for a dice roll with a good chance of losing on whether or not my new boss turns out to be an asshole?
memracom 1 hour ago 1 reply      
To my mind the ideal challenge is no more than 4 hours. You make an appointment. At the agreed time, the hiring company emails you the requirements. If you have clarification question, they remain available throughout the challenge time to answer them. From a hiring point of view the challenge should have some vague areas in the requirements in order to test whether the candidate is a coder or a developer who asks decent clarification questions. The challenge requires no special tools to do, either JS in a browser or Python or something like that. The exact requirments of the dev environment are specified at the time the appointment is made, i.e. if you want the person to develop in Python 2.6.3 or to use JS with backbone.js, then the candidate can get set up in a few minutes and be ready.

I consider 4 hours to be a max. 45 minutes is a bit short IMHO and does not allow for including unit tests. Also, I believe that a good challenge should ask for a complete set of unit tests as well.

But a full working MVP is way overboard and is too complex for the hirer to make meaningful decisions based on the outcome.

Any challenge should be followed up by an interview in which questions focus on the solution as developed by the candidate. The why of choices and the intent are important factors, probably more important than the actual code.

ChristianMarks 2 hours ago 1 reply      
Lately I have been solving coding challenges. For the sake of solving them only. I submit them, wait for "good job!" or "nice work!" and move on to the next challenge--at the next company. After a few months or years of doing this, I may decide to advance to technical phone screens on shared documents. I'll try that for a while. After that who knows...
ukd1 54 minutes ago 1 reply      
If you're being hired to code, expect to be asked to code in an interview process.
sumodds 2 hours ago 0 replies      
I agree and disagree. I am a candidate and prefer coding challenges provided they are reasonable. Meaning, if you are wanting to check the person's ability in x, check the person ability in x, not y. So for example give a starter code with part that would showcase person talent in x is left out. Yes, this involves prior effort on the part of the company to come up with this exercise and on the person. I don't quite vouch for code samples, because it is very difficult to understand where they came up with the ideas and who wrote the code, and if it was a multi-person project. In the former case, it is a very controlled experiment and one you designed, so one can judge much better.
coldcode 1 hour ago 0 replies      
If someone asked me to write an iOS app for them for free as a test I'd offer them to download some of my work from the App Store. Otherwise, no.
mrpoptart 1 hour ago 0 replies      
Your td;dr: should go at the top. Having started working at a company that asked me to do one of these, it was different specifically in that it was paid. This means it's not a waste of anyone's time. A time-constrained, feature-rich project shows a number of things about a programmer including how they handle pressure, how they prioritize their tasks, whether their estimates are reasonable, and whether they know about what you're hiring them for.
mbell 2 hours ago 2 replies      
I have to say, that headline font is awful and the link highlighting on the blog's front page is worse. There is a bit of oddness in declaring yourself a front-end person by talking about not needing to be tested as a back-end person when you're applying for a front-end job yet having a blog with a such a jarring front-end.
neakor 2 hours ago 1 reply      
The code challenge is usually just one part of the interview process to see if you can produce a quality product within a certain amount of time. It's not designed to tell every single thing you outlined in your post. It's meant to provide some signal before the actual on-site interview occurs. The on-site interview is expensive on the company's part, it is easier to filter out people who can't solve a simple full-stack solution. Companies who ask things like these are looking for people who understand both front and back ends. In short, just knowing either front or backend but not both, is not enough for the company.
JSno 2 hours ago 0 replies      
Though it really based on what lever you are at. This kinda tests are always for entry-mid level recruitment I guess.I agree with author 100 percent.
ndesaulniers 1 hour ago 0 replies      
I told FB the same thing, too!
Wolfram Language wolfram.com
142 points by lelf  11 hours ago   107 comments top 18
jwr 6 hours ago 3 replies      
I find it amusing that many people (seemingly Hackers) concentrate on Wolfram's ego rather than on the actual thing at hand. I don't care about egos, lipstick color, or the pants the language creator wears. I care about the language, so let's talk about it now:

From a long-time Mathematica user: this is not a language I like. I use it, but there is little to no fun. Many things aren't immediately clear or become problematic if you stop using the language for a while. As an example, quick, what is the difference between Module[], Block[] and With[]? Even if you remember that With[] is a lexical scoping construct, Module[] and Block[] can be confusing.

It doesn't help that Mathematica is absolutely horrible for debugging code. I don't know why they put so little emphasis on their REPL, but it's way behind the times. Even mismatched parentheses can cause serious pain (and I hate the fact that things move around when I edit parentheses).

That said, I have a lot of respect for Mathematica as a complete system. It is incredibly useful, most mathematical tools you will ever need are there. It is also a great tool for explorative data analysis. Have a pile of data you'd like to see patterns in? Load it up, mash it into shape with high-level functions, then quickly produce great-looking graphics. Nothing even comes close to the flexibility of Mathematica here.

klrr 8 hours ago 6 replies      
I like what they write about functional programming.

"Functional Programming

Long viewed as an important theoretical idea, functional programming finally became truly convenient and practical with the introduction of the Wolfram Language."

Not sure if anyone can take that seriously.

ianbicking 4 hours ago 2 replies      
These comments would be a lot more interesting if people identified what was cool rather than just bitching about ego or syntax or licensing. I'm not going to be using the Wolfram Language, but I'd love to identify the best ideas from it. And it's a different enough language that I am confident there are interesting ideas in it.

My own contribution:

Idly looking about I come upon this page, which is not particularly notable: https://reference.wolfram.com/language/ref/Sow.html

What is notable is this example:

  In: Reap[Sow[a]; b; Sow[c]; Sow[d]; e]  Out: {e, {{a, c, d}}}
Reap/Sow ss a funny language feature that I haven't imagined before, but that's not really the point. The point is that this is a runnable example that's actually what is output. Typically when you run something like that you get "NameError: a is not defined". And "a" here is really a variable, of sorts it's not a string or symbol (at least not a symbol in the sense that we know them in programming).

Given this, snippets of code are just as executable as entire programs. Every expression is like a function with the free variables as its parameters, and a sequence of expressions is a bit like function composition.

This is all natural from the perspective of mathematic notation. In a more traditional programming environment I think it's reminiscent of partial evaluation: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Partial_evaluation where you analyze a program and execute expressions opportunistically. It's really almost the same as partial evaluation, but the Wolfram Language knows a lot more about how you can execute different combinations of expressions than a typical language. A typical language does not really "believe" that (a+b) and (b+a) are equivalent. It doesn't know how to relate different operations. Nor do normal languages have a concept of simplification, so they can't speculatively try other arrangements (where none in isolation is clearly better or simpler than another) to see if simplifications are possible.

spitfire 50 minutes ago 0 replies      
So looking through the documentation I'm still seeing an issue I've been dealing with MMA for years now. That's that mms acts as if all data comes in a single type. The real world unfortunately is a very messy place, I deal with numeric, categorical and boolean data regularly.

For example, I saw the "machine learning" section in the documentation and my eyes lit up. It has a Classify function. Then I looked into it and it assumes all your data is homogeneous.

Worse still, the only underlying classifiers available are rather pedestrian. I was using KernelMixture for my own classifier, which vastly outperformed the GLM or Probit models available.

Also, no Bayesnets?

NB: I'm user of Mathematica, and would love to use it more, Every time I have to use something like python or ruby I feel like I'm going back to the stone age.

lispm 7 hours ago 1 reply      
The language lacks a spec. For a language with mathematical background this is a joke. The descriptions of core features are just not existing - not even talking of a semantic definition, like Scheme has now since a few decades.

Maybe they want to prevent alternative implementations.

petercooper 8 hours ago 2 replies      
I'm always struck by how slick and well produced everything related to Wolfram is. It's not what I've come to expect from most academically leaning companies at all. This goes for NKS which is a beautifully presented book whether or not you go along with its contents.
xfax 9 hours ago 8 replies      
Serious question - is Mathematica popular outside of academic circles? I remember being blown away in college but haven't used it since.
vph 6 hours ago 0 replies      
One has to take a grain of salt with Stephen Wolfram's claims of superiority.

Nevertheless, it appears that people have to pay to use "the Wolfram language" (although there might be scenarios that allow "free usage" for the purpose of attracting users who will eventually pay for using the language if they want to scale up their work). The concept of paying to use a language is troublesome in terms of common understanding of what a language is.

xradionut 9 hours ago 0 replies      
The more interesting details aren't on this page. The license and the costs associated with the license.
trurl42 9 hours ago 2 replies      
So far it seems like the "Wolfram System" and the future "Mathematica 10.0" are the same thing (see: http://reference.wolfram.com/language/tutorial/WolframSystem... )

Licensing doesn't seem to have changed: http://reference.wolfram.com/language/guide/SystemAndLicense...

berntb 9 hours ago 4 replies      
To me this looks like a Lisp variant with a large set of utility libraries.

Am I missing something? Is the point the quality/volume of the support libraries?

xntrk 8 hours ago 0 replies      
Is there a PDF of this doc somewhere? I would like to scroll through it to see what is in there. but I don't think i'm going to click on 10000 links to see every language construct...
klausnrooster 7 hours ago 0 replies      
Searched for REBOL from Wolfram's site (hope that language can 'flatten' it's own nest of URLs, jeez...). Didn't find REBOL but interesting NLP blog post from 2010: http://blog.stephenwolfram.com/2010/11/programming-with-natu...
leoc 3 hours ago 0 replies      
So, it employs term-rewriting magics of some kind rather simple evaluate-the-subexpressions, doesn't it?
oleganza 9 hours ago 1 reply      
When I was a student and working with Mathematica 5 and 6 a lot, I was always amazed about its simplicity and power. I had just two windows: typing in a white document window without any toolbars (only zoom control in the bottom) and having another window with documentation. And the documentation was great: you could evaluate examples right inside the doc page, play with parameters, like in your own document.

The design of the language, user interface and depth and clarity of documentation makes me think that Wolfram Research is even more design-obsessive than Apple. Stephen Wolfram takes credit for too many things (like Jobs), but he also delivers amazing stuff.

Xdes 7 hours ago 1 reply      
So how do I use this language? Do I need to buy Mathematica?
vseloved 8 hours ago 0 replies      
The better name would be Wolfram standard library
jcutrell 8 hours ago 0 replies      
Got really excited about Language Processing, then I saw what's on the page. https://reference.wolfram.com/language/guide/LanguageProcess...

I do look forward to what's next on this, especially because I have yet to buy a Pi.

Redis 2.8.0 stable is out groups.google.com
134 points by antirez  11 hours ago   51 comments top 8
mythz 10 hours ago 3 replies      
Redis is one of the few examples we have of truly beautiful software: A simple and elegant rock-solid performer that just works like water.

The updates over the years have been useful and has tastefully kept with the true spirit of Redis - thanks for all your hard work Salvatore!

NatW 10 hours ago 1 reply      
resca79 6 hours ago 0 replies      
I'm from ruby community where people, that made a gem, often feel like rockstar.I have known Antirez few months ago, he's a top hacker and great person
zerop 9 hours ago 1 reply      
Most of the new updates in recent Redis releases are related to cluster and replication, I would like to see new commands and structure types.. I like the SCAN and MATCH...thanks for all hard work..love Redis..
chris_wot 9 hours ago 13 replies      
I'm terribly sorry in advance if this sounds dense, but what exactly do you use Redis for? I've been trying to work it out for some time... pointers to documentation would be fine :-)
ksec 10 hours ago 2 replies      
Still Waiting for Cluster.
munimkazia 10 hours ago 1 reply      
Keyspace change Notifications will be super useful. Sounds like a very promising feature. Also glad that they are working on Sentinel, I hope they release a stable version of that soon.
filipedeschamps 10 hours ago 1 reply      
SCAN looks awesome!
Apples iOS7 Native JavaScript Bridge strongloop.com
89 points by bananacurve  8 hours ago   54 comments top 16
pflats 7 hours ago 3 replies      
"Apples iOS7 support of JavaScript inline with your Objective-C code validates JavaScript as the leading (and only) non proprietary language that is supported within the iOS development environment by the device manufacturer."

Since when is Objective-C proprietary? Apple's given it a few non-standard extensions (i.e. blocks) but that doesn't make it a proprietary language. GCC and Clang are open source.

eonil 6 hours ago 3 replies      
JSC was always there for years in WebKit source repository, and anybody could build native JSC engine. Well, it needs some extra works, but there're also some Github repos from other people.

AFAIK, the only difference to Safari was JIT compilation support. Because iOS doesn't allow executing dynamically generated machine code in 3rd-party apps for security reason.

Does iOS7 support JIT compilation on JSC embedded in any app? If it supports JIT, that could be a big news, because it means Apple finally allowed dynamically generated code in 3rd-party apps, but I don't think the day will come.

And personally, I don't see any benefit from JavaScript apps. If someone claims JS or any third party frameworks are better than Objective-C for iOS app, I would like to ask these things. (could be offensive, but these are actually how I feel from those claims)

Does it offer better auto-completion? Does it offer better syntax/semantic/type checks? Does it offer better debugging aid? (like GDB's execution rollback) Does it offer better accessibility to any platform features? Can I use new features immediately? Shouldn't I wait for 3rd party patch? Profiler for device and simulators? How's low-level access? If I have some trouble, how can I fix it without knowledge for lower-level (Cocoa/Darwin)? If I want to use C-based DSL? Is it safe for AppStore approval? What's the benefit of using open language on proprietary platform?

I mean, what's better with JS than Objective-C with Xcode?

If it can't offer any of those stuffs, it means it's at least 10 times less productive = 10 times more cost.

Well, it could make sense JS app for an Android app because ADT is too sucks so some extra wrapper can bring extra productivity. But for iOS, JS stuffs only degrade productivity by extra abstraction, debugging hardness and inferior toolsets.

nilliams 7 hours ago 1 reply      
There was a great talk on this at Cascadia JS, 'JavaScript as a first-class citizen on iOS7':https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y-nodF6Cp1Y
sjtgraham 4 hours ago 1 reply      
I've been working with JavaScriptCore to facilitate the optional code-on demand constraint of REST, e.g. A client requests a JS representation of a resource, which includes what fields a valid resource has, type hinting so the client can dynamically build a UITableView with the most appropriate controls for each field, and validation functions allowing the client to validate a field when it changes or when its UITextField resigns first responder status.

I just had a horrifying thought: Aren't apps that download code banned from the App Store? If so, would this include JS downloaded at runtime to be evaluated with JavaScriptCore? What's the conceptual difference between this and a UIWebView opening a page that has <script> tags embedded?

pdenya 5 hours ago 0 replies      
That syntax for passing obj-c blocks to javascript is nice. I've never been a fan of titanium/phonegap but this might make it easy and fast enough to be worthwhile. Ideally I could use html for some complex interfaces seamlessly and keep native components (scrollviews, etc) elsewhere.
georgemcfly 7 hours ago 1 reply      
Objective-C isn't a proprietary language, as this author annoyingly suggests several times. Regardless, the new JavaScriptCore framework is pretty impressive. It would be nice if there were some official Apple docs beyond the one WWDC video, though.
cwp 5 hours ago 0 replies      
I wonder if Apple would approve an app that downloads and executes Javascript using the bridge. Historically, Javascript has been an exception to the blanket rule against downloading code, but outside of a web view, that might not hold.
United857 3 hours ago 0 replies      
Very cool -- but would be nice if they could tie this into the DOM and JS context of a UIWebView, so we could have true HTML5/hybrid native apps.
Zelphyr 3 hours ago 1 reply      
I recognize this is pedantic but why does he keep using "surface" as a verb? Is there some new programming nomenclature I'm just now getting exposed to? If so, what does this mean?

It reminds me of a Java programmer I used to work with who constantly said he was "hydrating" his objects. I kept wanting to tell him he wasn't sounding as cool as he thought he was.

martin_ 5 hours ago 0 replies      
Sounds very similar to http://www.cycript.org/
comex 5 hours ago 0 replies      
Incidentally, on my retina MBP in Safari, the entire text of this post somehow manages to appear scaled up and blurry. Doesn't happen in Chrome.
riq_ 4 hours ago 0 replies      
Shameless plug here:In case you need to use JS on older iOS versions, I created JavaScript bridge for Objective-C (and C).

It is a command line tool that parses Objective-C header files (using llvm) and generates the needed intermediate "bridge" files.Internally it uses the SpiderMonkey VM (instead of JavaScript Core)The source code and the documentation can be found here:https://github.com/ricardoquesada/jsbindings

stevejohnson 5 hours ago 1 reply      
Does anyone have benchmarks about JIT vs non-JIT Javascript on iOS 7? I'm interested, but haven't been able to locate any.
tylerlarson 3 hours ago 0 replies      
The iPad app that I've been working on was partially built with Ejecta, which uses the JavaScriptCore to eval JavaScript and pairs this with OpenGL ES to implement the Canvas and WebGL APIs. You can see it here if interested https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/paperless-post-invitations/i...
general_failure 6 hours ago 1 reply      
Appcelerator cannot use v8 because v8 has no non-jit mode. Ios apps cannot jit...
AsymetricCom 3 hours ago 0 replies      
If you're reading this and picking up new information (besides strongloop's Titanium pitch) you're really in the dark about what's going on.
Android KitKat ships without browser app. OEMs have to license Chrome unwiredview.com
73 points by cpeterso  6 hours ago   57 comments top 15
drzaiusapelord 4 hours ago 2 replies      
This is fud. Browser is still in AOSP. Pretty sure this is it here:


Obviously you can create the gui for a browser to access the webkit renderer if you didnt want this.

Anyway, this is meaningless. No one ships commercial phones without the Play store and Chrome will be just another app bundled with the deal.

nostrademons 3 hours ago 2 replies      
Speaking solely as a web developer: good riddance, the pre-KitKat stock Android browser is a piece of shit. It relies on an old fork of Webkit that has none of the features of the modern web, no GPU support, and a lot of outright bugs (like it would flip back to the first frame of a CSS3 animation right before the animation completes, creating an ugly flicker).

Without this change we'd be left with Android Browser & clones as the IE6 of the mobile web. I'm hoping all the OEMs build their own browsers off the Chromium WebView that ships in KitKat; then at least we only have to worry about Chromium and Mobile Safari.

ozten 4 hours ago 3 replies      
If only there was a free, completely open source browser with more than 4.5 stars in the Google Play store which could be bundled without any business deals...

Bonus points for a cool project codename like Fennec.

forgottenpass 5 hours ago 1 reply      
Are the additional terms for licensing Chrome beyond what was already needed for OEMs to get the Play Store? Unless there are and they're onerous in particularly new way, this feels like a non-issue getting attention because the business agreements around Android are relatively public compared to other OSes.
d0nk 5 hours ago 0 replies      
This seems a bit odd to me. The browser is still in the AOSP source (platform/packages/apps/Browser) and has 4.4_r1.2 tags. It was also included in a self-built rom for my Nexus 4 without doing anything to explicitly include it.

Even if google doesn't ship a browser in the source they provide to OEM's, the source for the AOSP browser is still readily available and trivial to add to the build.

Aissen 4 hours ago 0 replies      
One thing that isn't in the article: Chrome for Android is proprietary software. Yes it uses the chromium project as an engine, but all the UI bits are proprietary.

This leads to ridiculous procedures if you want to recompile libchromeview.so and replace it in your app:http://code.google.com/p/chromium/wiki/AndroidBuildInstructi...

neltnerb 4 hours ago 0 replies      
Funny, this is exactly what Microsoft was sued over =) Good on Google for pre-emptively removing vendor lockin for browser choice.
AdmiralAsshat 6 hours ago 2 replies      
All the more reason for OEMs to start shipping with Firefox instead.
berdario 3 hours ago 0 replies      
Not only the browser in AOSP is based on chromium, but it's also used as the webview engine itself...


as much as I despise Google for closing up a lot of bits of android, this doesn't seem much of an issue...

also: every OEM worth its salt should just build their android from the AOSP (or some fork)'s sources

Zigurd 4 hours ago 0 replies      
Before Chrome became the Android browser id led a dual life, as Chrome, Google's commercial product that includes some licensed IP, and Chromium, an open source project.

I expect that licensing Chrome in Android is necessary for the same reasons there are parallel projects and products for other platforms.

ville 5 hours ago 2 replies      
Maybe they learned from Microsoft that is not good to ship a browser with an OS?
driverdan 4 hours ago 2 replies      
Is Google making companies pay for software they offer as a free download in the Play store? How does that make any sense?
billyjobob 5 hours ago 2 replies      
Chromium is a free software version of Chrome for PCs. Is there an Android version of Chromium? If so, wouldn't OEMs just ship that instead of licensing Chrome?
thrillgore 3 hours ago 1 reply      
It's the IE/Netscape lawsuit all over again.
       cached 22 November 2013 23:02:01 GMT