hacker news with inline top comments    .. more ..    24 Sep 2012 News
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Websockets 101 " Quick introduction into the final specification of websockets pocoo.org
59 points by the_mitsuhiko  1 hour ago   7 comments top 4
btmorex 23 minutes ago 0 replies      
If anyone finds themselves needing to write a Websockets implementation, there's an awesome protocol test suite at http://autobahn.ws/testsuite

I wrote a C++ implementation for a side project and with the aforementioned test suite I actually found it pretty easy to get to 100% compliance. There's some ugliness in the protocol because of proxies, but it's definitely not the worst protocol in the world. The only big missing feature is compression and there's a proposal for that (you could certainly do application level compression, but I'd rather avoid writing compression code in JS).

peterwwillis 6 minutes ago 0 replies      
Encryption is not a panacea. As more websites use HTTPS, more corporate networks are installing content filters that passively filter HTTPS content.

Yes. I just said corporate networks are spying on HTTPS connections.

It's really simple to implement. Get some kind of web proxy that has support (Websense is pretty popular, amazingly) and generate a root cert on the box. Then use a group policy on your AD server to distribute the root cert to all the client systems. Now Websense can decode the HTTPS traffic by issuing its own fake certs to clients and handle the "real" HTTPS handshake on the frontend proxy side.

Result? Your websockets are still going to get fucked with by proxies. Can we please stop building fake protocols on top of real protocols now?

zafriedman 11 minutes ago 0 replies      
An even quicker introduction to the final specification of WebSockets: http://socket.io.

P.S. I'm aware that a) this doesn't help anyone not using Node.js on their server (it's not even part of my production stack at work (yet!), even though I'm bringing it to light here) and b) it's more than just WebSockets, for instance it will gracefully degrade on legacy browsers.

I just can't miss an opportunity to sing its praises because it has so many benefits over the simple implementation.

romaniv 41 minutes ago 3 replies      
Why do standards like WebSockets don't include anything that can be used in pure HTML? This would be a great tool for building efficient dynamic apps, if you could "submit" forms without going to a new page, and then get incremental page updates as a response.
SHA-3 to Be Announced schneier.com
131 points by stalled  3 hours ago   22 comments top 5
exDM69 2 hours ago 2 replies      
I implemented the Skein hash in a crypto class at my uni. What is remarkable about that hash is that it has a "hash tree" mode which provides an interesting opportunity for parallelization and doing hashing of partial data. In contrast, many traditional hash algorithms are inherently sequential by nature.

On the other hand, as Mr. Schneier points out in the article, the Skein hash utilizes a modified Threefish block cipher, while many of the SHA-3 contestants were AES-based (edit: seems like none of the finalists are). Now we have a hardware AES implementation shipping in mainstream processors, so it gives an edge to the AES-based hash functions out there.

edit: I went through the list of finalists and it seems none of them actually use the whole AES block cipher, although several of them use AES S-boxes or other parts of AES.

Zenst 43 minutes ago 2 replies      
Interesting that the reason for SHA-3 has been missed in that the finalists offer no better way to hash with the main difference being some are faster and some slower than the best SH2 variations.

What does this mean, well in effect no extra value is being directly offered, sure some have extra abilities by design like being more able to liberate parallel processing by sbeing able to split the data to be hashed into chunks and work on partial blocks of the final data and use the results to get the final hash result. That is nice.

But when it comes to brute forcing then being faster works against you, also the ability to work on partial chunks of the data allows you to modify the code and rechecking the partial hash for the part your changing until you get the same result, this alows you to do nasty things to code and get the official hash answear alot easier than having to rehash the end result every time and getting the same result or modifying the code to get the same result (usualy have area you jump over all nop and modify that to influence the hash, but more sane ways to do this but offtopic).

So in essence any hash that can be run faster in any way will make it weaker in terms of brut forcing (yes I know people assume there passwords will be the last one on the list to be checked bia brute forcing and assume if it takes 10 years to test all variations then there password is 10 years strong, you see the flaw in mentality there).

Now NIST still have an opertunity here and it is a simple, tried and tested approach and that would be to have all finalists winners and have them all in the standard as variations. This then allows end users/admins to pick there variation of choice or even perish the thought allow mixed usage so say your /etc/password file could have some users using one variation, others using another, etc. Whilst it add's no obvious extra benifit, it will allow more variations and in that fallbacks/choice and that is what n BIT encryption/hashing is all about, each bit being a choice in a way.

So in summary I believe NIST should let them all win and have SH3.n with n being the variation of finalist, let them all win, choice is good and that is what n bit encryption is after all, extra choices.

helper 2 hours ago 2 replies      
I'm a bit surprised that Schneier is advocating for "no award". Even if the SHA-3 candidates are not fundamentally better than SHA-512, we really do need a standardized algorithm that has built in protection from length extension attacks.
swordswinger12 2 hours ago 1 reply      
I think NIST should have a big Apple-esque unveiling event for new crypto. I for one am that excited about SHA-3.
dochtman 1 hour ago 0 replies      
djb thought in March it was going to be Keccak:


Apple loses German patent court case bbc.co.uk
31 points by akulbansal  1 hour ago   13 comments top 2
neya 54 minutes ago 1 reply      
This is seriously good news. I want open source to eventually win the war.
scrrr 1 hour ago 2 replies      
> In a separate case being heard in Munich, the court backed Apple's claim that Motorola had infringed its patent on what happened when users scrolled to the end of a page, document or list - a technology known as "overscroll bounce" or "rubber banding".

That is also what the Chrome browser does..

Appcelerator: extortion is just part of the job... masukomi.org
26 points by masukomi  50 minutes ago   1 comment top
jawngee 0 minutes ago 0 replies      

    The iPad app we've been working on is currently 
using a very useful plugin that can only be found
in the Appcelerator ecosystem. I shall be ripping
that out and finding some other solution to the
problem. There are plenty of competitors in this

If you were writing a native app you wouldn't have to rip anything out or have to find it elsewhere. Just sayin'.

I have a fairly aggressive lack of sympathy for phonegap/titanium/"cheap shortcut" users in general and this whole incident is just sort of confirmation to part of the reason why.

I'll Give MongoDB Another Try. In Ten Years. diegobasch.com
12 points by nachopg  11 minutes ago   discuss
A new Succinct, end-to-end, typed REST API for .NET/Mono github.com
46 points by mythz  2 hours ago   13 comments top 5
DanielBMarkham 1 hour ago 1 reply      
Wonder if this would work with F#
candl 1 hour ago 1 reply      
Can anyone recommend a good setup for Mono? In my tests, mono-fascgi + nginx has been extremely slow at handling requests. Wanted to give this a spin some time ago, as well as ASP.NET MVC, but I couldn't get decent performance on linux.
davidarkemp2 7 minutes ago 0 replies      
Can someone amend this post to include the project name?
alexro 1 hour ago 2 replies      
If I'm right, the ServiceStack creator is now working for StackOverflow. Do they somehow use this framework and/or play a role in supporting it?

I think the framework is good as it is, but knowing about big names backing it would give me more faith going forward.

Avalaxy 1 hour ago 1 reply      
How does this compare to the ASP.NET 4 Web API?
Do Web Developers Ever Learn? bitroar.posterous.com
26 points by dennisgorelik  1 hour ago   15 comments top 9
mootothemax 43 minutes ago 1 reply      
In the late 90s the majority web of developers seemed to believe that the only proper way to link to a webpage was by running some messy JavaScript code

No, the majority didn't. Bad developers did stuff like this, and some are probably still using the same tricks right now.

The majority realised how stupid it was to do so, and therefore didn't create links like this.

I've seen some crazily bad website code in my time, include sites outputting their HTML using nothing but hard-coded document.write() calls. That doesn't mean the majority of developers were following suit.

ewolf 34 minutes ago 2 replies      
I agree on some points, yet I believe the author exaggerates during most of his article.

PushState, for example, is not a bandaid, and for those not-so-modern browsers there are hashtags (let's be frank: 99.9% of users don't care about how beautiful or ugly their URIs are and even less about one particular character).

In many cases such as WYSIWYG editors, which he mentions, Javascript is the only way (HN users might prefer Markdown, but for most average users, that's already too complicated). New HTML5 input types are awesome, but they are in this case the advanced fragile technologies that currently lack a broad support base.

I particularly disagree on the last two points: These days, Javascript and CSS is minified, sprites are used on basically all popular sites and content is gzipped. Many people even use a CDN for their JS frameworks. Loading time optimization is a topic more important than ever before. The same goes for mobile versions: I see a lot of people even offering a mobile-optimized version of their portfolio.

He is certainly right saying that these aspects are all very important, but I don't really see the lack thereof in practice. Any examples, perhaps?

holri 25 minutes ago 0 replies      
„The ingeniousness of a construction is based on its simplicity - Everybody can construct complicated."

Sergej P. Koroljow (1907-1966)

ojr 5 minutes ago 0 replies      
Now we have advanced frameworks like Bootstrap and Zurb, and HTML5 boilerplate, that serve boilerplate css, js, and other components, Open source is working very very well, but people still seem to focus on the negative and make rants using blogging platforms like posterous and wordpress that basically contradicts what you are saying because these sites use different fonts and techniques that you said were "bad". We live in a sub-par world with continuous deployment running free, are people going to complain and complain over literally words, because code is made up of letters! The energy is better served contributing to the cause
TomGullen 9 minutes ago 0 replies      
Bad developers never learn.

Progressive enhancement is the best design pattern for web development, and more developers need to design in this way.

raimondious 44 minutes ago 0 replies      
I think we don't see countermovements because they are boring. The exciting things that get shared online and get talked about are new but fragile techniques that you can't actually use in your day-to-day work. The well-trodden, stable way to build web applications are used every day without incident or fanfare. There is no need to write a blog post about graceful degradation or javascript-aided navigation that doesn't break the back button anymore because it's standard practice.
danso 45 minutes ago 1 reply      
Too broad of a question-title considering the scope is: "Why are there bad web developers?" and/or "Why do some websites insist on having complexity?"
scorcher 37 minutes ago 0 replies      
Completely agree with you on the bad flash and links point. Not sure I agree with you on the webapps points though. Would have been nice to have some depth on why you feel PushState is a "bandaid" rather than a full solution.

You also seem to have not taken into account how new HTML5 is. Sure generally a semantic solution exists now but when the vast majority of sites were written this wasn't the case.

bgrohman 37 minutes ago 1 reply      
Arbitraty limitations imposed on GUI, such as opening things in modal windows.

I'd like to see some additional examples of this arbitrary limitation in the GUI. It seems to me that many design choices can be classified as limitations. If the user doesn't understand the reasons behind the design choices, then the user might mistake them as being arbitrary.

SeenBefore: A search engine for what you have seen before seenbefore.com
70 points by chrishan  4 hours ago   35 comments top 16
crntaylor 2 hours ago 3 replies      
Obvious point to raise: the reason people regularly delete their browser history is because they watch porn without turning on private browsing. How do you propose to deal with this?

You'd need to provide at least the ability to selectively delete portions of the history. But you can selectively delete portions of your browser history too, and people don't - because it would be too easy to miss something. Instead, they just nuke the whole thing. How is your tool different?

martythemaniak 23 minutes ago 0 replies      
I'm going to give it a spin and let know what I think (it'll take a few weeks of usage), but I can tell you right now that it's definitely solving a real problem I have.
ankimal 1 hour ago 0 replies      
Interesting idea. Some quick questions:

- How much data do you store per user?

- How do I delete certain results? (preferably after the search comes back)

- Another thing to consider is - After how much time does this just become as painful as finding that page through a search engine?

- What version of the page gets stored? The latest or the one that I saw?

I guess its one step better than Evernoting a page and adding tags myself.

Good luck!

gingerjoos 2 hours ago 1 reply      
Beat me to it! This was something I had been planning to build on my own for a while, but didn't get around to . Congrats!

Whenever I have tech discussions with friends I would recall something mentioned in a article I read via HN. But it would take me a whole lot of effort to get that link. Oftentimes I simply couldn't get hold of the link even after an hour of searching.

Please do get the Firefox extension out. Would love to use it. Also, please do make sure the extensions/addons are stable. Have been facing problems with Annotary's extensions [1], for instance.

By the way, do you have a crawler fetch the link content or do you send it from the user's browser?

[1] https://getsatisfaction.com/annotary/topics/unstable_browser...

bambax 3 hours ago 0 replies      
Some of the things I "see", I would prefer they never show up in a Google search.

I'm sure there is a configuration setting somewhere to deal with that, but it would be yet another thing to take care of.

ThomPete 20 minutes ago 0 replies      
I love this idea but I think you will find more traction by turning it into a kind of bookmarking app with less focus on the search engine part.
elviejo 46 minutes ago 0 replies      
I'll take it for a spin... this is something I've wanted for a long time.

I was going to hack it by making chrome bookmark every site I visit with a tag:history then when I wanted to search for a site that I've already visited I was going to just search with that tag.

adaml_623 3 hours ago 0 replies      
"SeenBefore stores your information securely in the cloud from your work or home computers.

So no matter where you read it you can still search for it even when your browsing history has been deleted."


I think it's a good idea but I think many people would need convincing on the security front.

nuttendorfer 3 hours ago 1 reply      
Who am I handing my data over to? I can't find this anywhere on the site.
vdm 1 hour ago 1 reply      
Dup of Archify?


> 40% of searches online are people simply looking for what they have already seen before.

Citation link needed.

alanorourke 9 minutes ago 0 replies      
Great idea. Love it.
lucaspiller 2 hours ago 1 reply      
YES! I've been looking for something like this for ages for stuff I have read on Hacker News.
ilija139 2 hours ago 3 replies      
"40% of searches online are people simply looking for what they have already seen before." - How did they calculate this statistic?
adambyrtek 2 hours ago 1 reply      
How is this different from Google Search History?


coenhyde 3 hours ago 0 replies      
Looks useful. I've been well aware that google tracks everything I search for but I still don't like it.
pcl 1 hour ago 0 replies      
I love the date visualization. This is something I think that pretty much all search results could benefit tremendously from.
Apple v. Samsung Voir Dire Reveals Broken Promises groklaw.net
44 points by divy  2 hours ago   9 comments top 2
twoodfin 58 minutes ago 1 reply      
I don't get it. Why is it some kind of revelation that prospective jurors said they wouldn't let their previous experience with related issues influence their decision in the case? Isn't that bog standard voir dire stuff?

ISTM that the legal system can't expect jurors to be blank slates on every issue, that's just impractical. A judgement would really be thrown out because a juror later commented that his foreman's experience with the patent system was useful during deliberations? Was the foreman supposed to forget he'd ever filed for a patent? That's a little like saying jurors deliberating over a hit-and-run can't discuss their own driving experience. IANAL, but surely the line you can't cross is a little further out.

bhousel 1 hour ago 2 replies      
Couldn't this just be considered jury nullification? IANAL, but I don't think the responses in voir dire (especially to follow the instructions of the judge or the letter of the law) are any kind of binding promise.

Won't the appeals judge just say, "too bad for you, Samsung, for asking the wrong questions and getting an unfavorable jury"?

Why USA Phone, Cable & Internet Bills Cost So Much (Compared Globally) yahoo.com
11 points by bretpiatt  30 minutes ago   1 comment top
mtgx 8 minutes ago 0 replies      
I pay $20 for triple pay, with 100 Mbps Internet.
Show HN: I got tired of missing new music releases, so I built this beathound.com
9 points by girasquid  19 minutes ago   3 comments top
hendi_ 13 minutes ago 2 replies      
A service I can recommend is https://muspy.com/ . You enter your favorite interprets and get an email when they release a new single or album.
I Am Worried About The Future Of Python ironfroggy.com
115 points by Floopsy  5 hours ago   104 comments top 28
dmbaggett 2 hours ago 3 replies      
My startup has built our entire system around Python and I have found it a lovely language to code in but a challenging language to deploy in practice, mainly for these reasons:

1) Python 3's backward incompatibility has made a mess of library support and has trapped us on Python 2.7.

2) memory usage is a problem on mobile for nontrivial Python programs; iOS isn't even a formally supported target.

3) Pythonic programs can't use multiple cores.

Now before you jump down my throat and tell me how bad a programmer I must be, etc, etc, let me provide some anticipatory clarifying comments:

1) Most libraries do now work in Python 3.3; we are waiting on gevent, pyasn1, and tlslite, and, of course, all our own stuff.

2) There's at least one fork of Python 3 on bitbucket with a bunch of promising memory-reducing changes (can't find it now).

3) Yes, I know about (multi)processing and that real threads are hard to work with.

Literally every few weeks we are confronted with a new problem caused by one of the above. The latest one: there is no WinRT port of Python yet, and the one Martin Loewis is working on is for Python 3.3. (Of course: Python 2.7 is barred from noncritical patches.) So we need to either make 2.7 work on WinRT or not ship a WinRT version. Windows 8 launches Oct 26; Python is frankly just not ready, and no one but Martin L and a few others seem to care (or even notice). (And yes, I know Win32 stuff still runs under Windows 8... but not on the ARM devices, and not in the UI-formerly-known-as-Metro.)

I wouldn't say I regret having chosen Python as the basis of a 250k-line system, because in retrospect it was still the best of the dynamic language choices. But I definitely feel like Python qua programming language has become a missed opportunity in many ways.

Nowadays if someone were to ask me what they should write a nontrivial new system in, I would probably recommend coding everything in JavaScript or C++11. This makes me sad, because Python's syntax and sensibility are unparalleled; I have never been as productive a coder as I have been coding in Python these last few years. And I've been coding in C dialects since, seriously, 1979 (on a Heathkit H89 with 64K of RAM!)

modernerd 3 minutes ago 0 replies      
As a PHP developer slithering away from PHP at great speed on the back of Python, I am excited about its future.

Yes, I would love to be able to use Python for games and mobile development too, but I do not expect to be able to use it for these things, just as I do not expect to be able to build web apps with Objective-C (even though some do).

For me, the power, elegance, philosophy, and community that sustain Python are enough to make it a worthwhile choice in a finite but important number of domains.

lloeki 3 hours ago 5 replies      
> We see more major titles written in Flash and ActionScript than we see written in Python.

People want to write games in Python (myself included). They really do. The problem is, try to get pyopengl/pyglew/pygame/pyogre/pysdl or whatever running on your development machine. Now try to make it work on five different machines, across Windows/OSX/Linux. Then try to create a reliable distribution scheme for it.

I've tried it. Even the first step is painful, often requiring intimate knowledge of C, autoconf/make/whatever build systems and the system you're targeting, jus tto get you going. It's such a pain I just end up writing stuff in C, and only maybe plug in the python stuff later on, if at all.

Really, the lowest levels like PyOpenGL should have been part of the official Python distribution, just like tkinter, even if they are thin ctypes-like wrappers.

dazzawazza 3 hours ago 1 reply      
Regarding games: I chose lua over python because:

* smaller runtime foot print.

* faster runtime.

* simpler to embed

* the fewer batteries that are included are simpler to embed in your runtime. Python's libraries are often very tricky to embed.

I prefer python to lua, although they are both expressive and powerful languages, however the convenience of python isn't enough to trump the flexibility and speed of lua.

(edit formatting)

wladimir 3 hours ago 3 replies      
I really think PyPy is the future of Python. A faster python with better support for paralellism by leveraging STM. This makes Python suitable to a lot of use-cases where it's currently too slow. What is lacking at this moment is compatibility with a lot of the libraries in the ecosystem (see https://bitbucket.org/pypy/compatibility/wiki/Home), due to limited C-API compatibility (which is non-trivial to say at least due to different memory management and locking semantics). This is serious because a big part of what makes Python so cool is the wide library support.
b0rsuk 2 hours ago 0 replies      
I recognize that most of the response I'll probably get from this post amounts to, "You're complaining about silly things. Python doesn't do that, it isn't meant to. Stop putting a round peg in a square hole and complaining when it doesn't work."

If you agree with the above quote, you are committing a Texas Sharpshooter Fallacy. We're not using Python for that, because the interpreter has a significant startup time, because Python performance is not stellar, etc. But it could be different.

I'm a novice programmer without commercial experience, but the statements in bold ring true to me:
- Python is Expensive On Mobile
- Python is Without a Door On Browsers
- Python has Failed for Game Development

ippisl 1 hour ago 0 replies      
Shedskin might be one solution. From the shedskin forum[1]:
I've built and run shedskin apps for the iPhone - it works great actually.

It required commenting a few things out, and swapping in the boehm gc for iOS port.

Of course, no native ui widgets available - but I used phonegap to do the ui in html5 and it called shedskin c++ for all the actual app logic. Phonegap supports connecting html5 -> native c++ via a plugin architecture. Works wonderfully.

High powered, efficient apps on the iPhone via python is a bit of paradise compared to apples own obj-c, I must say. Huge potential for shedskin adoption there if someone packaged things up this way for the general public..."

[1] http://groups.google.com/group/shedskin-discuss/browse_threa...

skrebbel 1 hour ago 0 replies      
This is like writing an article in 2003 saying "I'm worried about the future of PHP". Even if you're right and Python is doomed, so what? You'll have another good reason to broaden your resume and become a generalist engineer.
cmwelsh 3 hours ago 1 reply      
Lua, a programming language I think might appeal to Pythonistas, is in a solid position to profit from the compile-to-JavaScript fad. I did some tests with mherkender's lua.js[1] a while back and Lua translated to JavaScript was only taking around 40% more time (I forget the exact numbers) to run the horrible benchmarks I wrote. There's still low hanging fruit to improve those numbers. Lua is a beautiful language. In addition, it's the language with the best chance at making it into a browser engine. It's lightweight - the compiled binary is around 120KB.

[1] https://github.com/mherkender/lua.js

ehutch79 42 minutes ago 0 replies      
So, what should we be using instead NOW? It's sort of frustrating reading these types of articles. I mean should I not be using python for my web apps anymore? Since we shouldn't be using python anymore, what should i use in the mean time? no suggestion? guess i'll sit here twiddling my thumbs until the next big thing hits hacker news.
jayflux 4 hours ago 8 replies      
"Python behind the webserver is a powerful tool and one that has enabled a lot of great sites and products and services. Unfortunately, once the content hits the wire, the Python stops."

Not sure if im being ignorant here but surely this is a problem for most server side languages? PHP, Ruby, Go, Perl would all suffer the same problems. Browser vendors only want to have JS client side for obvious reasons, this doesn't just affect python.

Js is clearly doing a fine job at client side programming, should we not be happy with that?

Why are people obsessed about creating a "jack of all trades" language instead of letting languages do what they do best?

Taken from the comments...
"I suspect javascript will become like assembly and all languages targeting the browser platform will need to be compiled to javascript."

That sounds like hell to a front-end developer. Its bad enough learning coffeescript or other dialects if a company uses them, but other languages too?

tocomment 3 hours ago 2 replies      
He forgets about concurrency. That's a major point of weakness for the future of Python (even though no one will admit it).
mpdehaan2 46 minutes ago 0 replies      
So I can't say I'm worried much.

Python strikes a very good balance between rapid development prototyping and something that is sustainable, and has an excellent level of readability that makes it outstanding for gathering patches from even non-professional programmers.

Most of the interesting parts of computing now cluster around web applications and web services, where the action happens on the server and Python is still reasonably well suited -- and in the servers behind them, where it's quite critical in Linux distributions. I write a ton of software for systems administrators and can't really see using anything else if I wanted the same contributor rate.

Sure, it doesn't run in the browser, but I can't see myself pining for the return of Java applets either. It all comes down to what types of applications you are writing.

If I was doing HFT, I'd clearly want something statically typed, fast, and functional. Those same properties are things I don't want in other applications. It's pretty much a screwdriver vs carburetor type of problem.

Yes, I'd love to see more investment in the runtime -- but I'm also reasonably fine with where it's at.

nacker 47 minutes ago 0 replies      
In spite of the Elop shenanigans at Nokia, Qt is very healthy, and Qt5 has even been demoed on the Raspberry Pi.
Pyside is now totally integrated and mature. Please take a look.




protomyth 2 hours ago 1 reply      
I'm a little confused by the first point. How is Objective-C not a dynamic language? Is he talking about something other than dynamic dispatch? Is there some reason other than time that prevents an implementation of Python to mirror what was done with Objective-C?
RBerenguel 3 hours ago 1 reply      
Most of the problems look like Lisp problems 20 years ago. Maybe Python is not the best for mobile or for games, but... so what? It's great for some things, and if it excels in those, why does it need to be perfect for everything?
lmm 3 hours ago 2 replies      
We see some games written in Flash and ActionScript, but not AAA titles like Eve and Civ 4. How many general-purpose languages get used to write such titles? I can only think of C, C++... yep, that's it.

Is the author's point that we're moving away from "big" games and towards less complex, "casual" games like are popular on mobile, and the latter aren't using python?

nacker 1 hour ago 0 replies      
There is a Door on Browsers for Python right here:



Needs more developers... (Hint)

manojlds 3 hours ago 1 reply      
Ironic that one of the things that got me hooked into programming and python was PyS60. I could write programs on my phone and run them. That was awesome. This was about 8 years ago on Nokia symbian phones.
ghettoCoder 2 hours ago 0 replies      
This is a good post and the comments are equally good. Here's the deal. Python nation isn't doing anything new here. Other languages have caused the same soul searching, think of C, Java or Delphi (of bad example). The point is that once a language grows up, and yes it can take takes ten years, it's a natural progression.

I've only been using Python for a few years and now I don't know how I managed to get anything done before. Python as a solid base and excels at certain things. Move on. Use the tool that fits.

As for the mobile hardware being low on power and battery life. Give it time. My computer 12 years ago had a difficult time doing anything when converting video. Now, I can play games while I convert a video and it uses less power/puts out less heat.


pcote 44 minutes ago 0 replies      
Python does not typically end up in a video game's main code base. However, to say it failed is to have a pretty limited view of game development. Art asset creation often requires customized tools within software packages like Blender or Maya. Python is doing just fine within it's part of the development pipeline.
manuscreationis 4 hours ago 1 reply      
And here I was hoping for some kind of thesis on the woeful state of affairs surrounding the fact they've had 2 major versions competing for developers attention, the with "older" fork being the more the widely supported one.
pjmlp 3 hours ago 0 replies      
One should not focus in a single programming language, as such the article looks like a developer's cry to use his favorite language everywhere.

Just make use of the best tool for the job. In some cases that tool is not Python, as simple as that.

wilfra 2 hours ago 1 reply      
For web dev (not game dev) what is Python in danger of losing to? Rails?
vxxzy 3 hours ago 0 replies      
There are some innovative ideas that may help "ease" over to python-on-mobile... One of them being pyBead: http://sourceforge.net/projects/pybead/?source=directory
Another would be Muntjac...
willvarfar 3 hours ago 1 reply      
I want a Python environment running in Chrome NaCL.
INTPenis 4 hours ago 1 reply      
Don't you worry about the future of Python, let me worry about blank! - Guido
lutusp 4 hours ago 1 reply      
For myself, I'm worried about the future of writing -- you need a spell checker. An automated spell checker would have caught the majority of the misspellings in your article.
Leak shows EU's plans for largescale surveillance of all communications edri.org
13 points by 1337biz  1 hour ago   discuss
The Joy of Quiet nytimes.com
22 points by neel980  2 hours ago   2 comments top 2
ek 44 minutes ago 0 replies      
This was wonderful. Pico Iyer is an amazing writer from a family of intellectuals. The University of California obit for his father, Raghavan, notes that Raghavan was "an inspired and inspiring scholar and teacher on the Santa Barbara campus from 1965 to 1986". I have personally had teachers inspired by the works of both Raghavan and his son.

His point, too, is one that I have found increasingly important for myself. Joel Gascoigne's post "6 things I do to be consistently happy" (http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4405127) in some sense echoes similar thoughts. Like Joel, I exercise most mornings, and like Joel, I stop all electronics at 11 most nights and read (fiction) for an hour. While it is often difficult to step away from computers and smartphones and the Internet, I find that exercise and books satisfy me deeply in a way the Internet is frequently unable to.

A friend pointed out to me that books possess a pretty much optimal SNR, which may have something to do with this.

ryandvm 1 hour ago 0 replies      
My own personal version of this happens during my work day commute. No radio, no podcasts, no phone calls.

I've found that unless I have about 30 minutes/day or so of thinking time, I tend to lose focus on my longer term projects.

The Next Big Consumer Application Is Most Likely Not Coming From An Accelerator alexstechthoughts.com
25 points by Ataub24  2 hours ago   13 comments top 8
zacharycohn 7 minutes ago 1 reply      
1. Correlation != Causation.

2. You just picked random companies that support your point.

3. I don't understand the logic behind "accelerators slow you down." Most accelerators encourage you to do a ton of customer validation and to pivot - or ditch your idea completely - when necessary. By maintaining a fast paced environment with a lot of mentors around, they help you move faster, not slower.

wilfra 32 minutes ago 0 replies      
YC is the Stanford, Harvard, Yale, Princeton, MIT and Caltech of accelerators, all rolled into one. But that doesn't mean startups who can't get into YC are wasting their time going through other accelerators anymore than students who can't get into S/H/Y/P/M/C are wasting their time going to Berkeley or Cal State Stanislaus or wherever they can get accepted. Ya, they'll have a lower chance of success, but there will still be guys who go to liberal arts colleges in Oregon - and dropout after a year - who change the World.
mattmanser 12 minutes ago 3 replies      
The guy's just picked random companies that supports his point, most of them pre-incubator and made some silly conclusion out of it.

But of course YC doesn't count. Even though it was the first incubator by a couple of years. So of course has had the first successes.

Coincidence perhaps?

Why is anyone upvoting this?

bmr 1 hour ago 0 replies      
1957: Future NBA superstars are unlikely to be black.
mwww 33 minutes ago 0 replies      
I think the reason might be that people who are able to build "the next big consumer app" just don't need an accelerator to start building. Just like Steve Jobs didn't need an MBA from Harvard in order to build Apple.
yesimahuman 1 hour ago 0 replies      
I would say this is more a function of the improbability of social products becoming mainstream than anything else. I don't think there is enough data to draw any conclusions yet.
tomasien 2 hours ago 1 reply      
The only way it comes from an accelerator/incubator is if it built there, a-la Reddit from YC. Reddit is quickly becoming something that should fit the list at the beginning of this post (it's blowing up) and it was built during YC's first class.

However, the odds of say, Twitter, joining an incubator as they were blowing up seems unlikely.

finkin1 1 hour ago 0 replies      
I think going through an accelerator/incubator is seen as sort of a quick path to success. They are short. You can get decent press right away. Great products often require much more time, thought, and energy than accelerators/incubators allow for. YC is definitely one of the best.
Circus, Nginx and Websockets github.com
16 points by nathancahill  2 hours ago   1 comment top
zrail 48 minutes ago 0 replies      
Are you aware of adapters for other WSGI-like bindings for Circus? I might be interested in trying it out if I could run, e.g., Rack or Plack applications on it. A general adapter that could bind to Circus' FD and forward to a random port and manage a child process would probably work just as well.
VC Fund for Students by Students in Philadelphia pandodaily.com
5 points by pwingo  29 minutes ago   2 comments top
tessr 20 minutes ago 1 reply      
"the University of Pennsylvania is quickly becoming the Stanford of the East"

Seems reasonable.

Turning a shipping container into a 3D printer hackaday.com
23 points by cleverjake  3 hours ago   4 comments top
shimon_e 2 hours ago 2 replies      
It's going to fail. You can't reach industrial scales like this. These things need maintenance and that isn't going to be cheap on a shipping container moving slowly around the globe.
Dear canonical: please let me pay for ubuntu webstylr.com
73 points by webstylr  4 hours ago   67 comments top 17
jballanc 1 hour ago 2 replies      
I'm surprised no one here has mentioned the obvious solution: go with the Apple model and build Ubuntu machines.

Sure, Apple made some money from selling OS X at $129. It's making less now. But new OS sales were never the reason for Apple to remain closed source. That had more to do with branding/marketing. Not many people remember that one of the reasons Steve killed the affiliate program is that the Mac affiliates were making better machines than Apple, and people were buying them instead of a "Mac". That reduces Apple's revenue, but more importantly dilutes their brand.

Ubuntu, on the other hand, has a very different brand proposition from the start. Open is their brand. But so is "convenience", and what could be more convenient than a machine for which you don't have to do research to find out if all the drivers will work?

nicholassmith 3 hours ago 2 replies      
The bigger issue is Ubuntu isn't a product. It's a nice community layer with some high level project management spearheading the direction and a team of core developers adding nifty features. If there is paying for the product then how is that money distributed to Jack John Johnson the guy doing patch fixes on his free time because he enjoys it. Does he get a salary? Some kind of financial bonus? Then you've got the issue of the lower level aspects being a very large part of Ubuntu, is the money in part for them? They're as much the product as Ubuntu One is.

Donations work fine, thats how the community keeps going. You're paying the Ubuntu high level team to continue what they're doing and helping cover the costs. If you like what Ubuntu does, go donate. If they're looking at 3rd party affiliates then maybe they're not getting enough donations, maybe they've been approached and think it's a good fit.

ivan_krechetov 3 hours ago 1 reply      
Won't happen; by definition. See http://www.ubuntu.com/project "Ubuntu is free. Always has been and always will be." Therefore, would be much better to stop writing link bait posts, but rather go and donate http://www.ubuntu.com/community/get-involved/donate
b0rsuk 26 minutes ago 0 replies      
I don't see anything wrong with "pay what you want" Ubuntu as long as people who pay don't get special treatment. The easiest way to ensure that would probably be anonymous contributions.

Similarly, certain definite projects like "get X functionality into Y application" could be valid targets for a kickstarter-like projects. Paid-for code released under GPL. Why not ? This measure would be best reserved for unfun tasks, something no one wants to do.

taw9 3 hours ago 0 replies      
I switched to Linux Mint Debian Edition a while back. Cinnamon is a great desktop. Don't miss the steaming pile of Ubuntu. It was great while it lasted, but then came Unity and now they're hitting us with adverts? I don't get it. Seems like they're trying to kill demand.
olalonde 54 minutes ago 1 reply      
I think Kilo Dalton's comment pretty much sums it up:

    > 1) make a donation
> 2) sudo apt-get remove unity-lens-shopping
> 3) grab a tasty beverage

realize 3 hours ago 5 replies      
Getting pretty tired of these "dear company, let me pay for your product instead of showing me ads" arguments. They show a lack of understanding of business models.
gadgetdevil 2 hours ago 0 replies      
Why not donate to the maintainers of Debian, Software in the Public Interest? http://www.debian.org/donations
They are the root of all those awesome dpkg's that we all know and love.
MatthewPhillips 3 hours ago 3 replies      
This seems like a really bad idea to me. You can't charge for something that the user can just build themselves for free. Someone else is just going to distribute the binaries. And so what do you do about your repos, are those just for paying customers as well? You wind up with 2 Ubuntus in this scenario, both weaker than the 1 today.
Tichy 3 hours ago 1 reply      
Suppose searching shops from the search bar makes sense: what would be a way to launch it that wouldn't freak out a lot of people?

Personally I find the new feature interesting, because I already use the DuckDuckGo !-Notation to search Amazon all the time.

ojii 3 hours ago 2 replies      
Am I just blind or where the heck are those ads on Ubuntu? I use it exclusively all day and I just cannot find ads anywhere (other than on websites in the browser, but that's not Ubuntu's fault).
AnthonBerg 1 hour ago 0 replies      
If you have spent a reasonable amount of time with Ubuntu, try installing Debian and playing around with it. Sadly, you will probably notice how Ubuntu have unnecessarily broken things that are working fine in Debian. Core things.

Let me propose you give money to Debian instead.

jiggy2011 2 hours ago 0 replies      
I suppose you could always mail them a cheque, they might even cash it.

As I've said before, I don't see how this kind on monetisation would be practical for Ubuntu unless they took chunks of their software (such as Unity) and made them closed source.

If there was a sticker price attached to Ubuntu and an activation system (ala Windows) somebody would simply fork the code minus the activation and make a free clone.

Basically the same as Redhat/CentOS.

Their best way of monetising the desktop is probably to make their app store less crappy and get some paid apps in there.

If they can't get enough third parties involved , maybe they can get the ball rolling with their own proprietary paid apps.

Their main customer base right now is probably developers, so a good start might be a nice GUI DB admin tool and a good debugging proxy (ala Fiddler) and they could start monetising tomorrow.

Kilimanjaro 2 hours ago 0 replies      
The right price for free software is not free, it's $9.
TimSchumann 3 hours ago 1 reply      
Are you willing to pay one dollar every time you open up a web browser in Ubuntu?

Or even one dollar a day?

Look into what advertisers are paying, I'm betting you're not willing to match their price.

Forgotten documentary about venture capital imdb.com
18 points by krudnicki  2 hours ago   4 comments top 3
bretthardin 23 minutes ago 0 replies      
I don't know if this is "forgotten" and it is available on Netflix instant.
regnum 1 hour ago 1 reply      
A memorable quote from this documentary (now on Netflix)

“(Steve) Jobs is a national treasure. He's so visionary, so bright. I had to fire him, though.” -Arthur Rock

finkin1 29 minutes ago 0 replies      
Great film. The original VCs were such badasses.
Google Translate in Android: Point, tap, brush, listen googletranslate.blogspot.in
50 points by pajju  6 hours ago   23 comments top 6
abcd_f 2 hours ago 1 reply      
I've been using WorldLens [0] for several weeks and while it has an inferior UI and its translation engine is outright dumb, it works offline and it's a HUGE plus. One needs this sort of app when traveling in another country, so the chances of having WiFi/3G connection are pretty slim, so no Google translation for you.

That's not to say that's Google's take is wrong, it's just (far) less practical right now.

[0] http://questvisual.com

zalew 4 hours ago 2 replies      
funny they gave cyrilic as an example. I've recently been on Ukraine and wanted to test it out for fun. scanned part of a menu (capital letters) while in a restaurant with wifi and the result was something like "3KOUIJL3KLJLKOOOASA3IIU". even though Ukrainian!=Russian, with such scan results you can't even attempt to translate it.

btw out of curiosity I've tested a few google mobile apps while traveling. my experience:

translate - needs internet and failed reading cyrilic.

google maps - offline caching didn't work at all, I didn't know how to get to my cached maps as when I start maps it raises a message that I need internet connection and didn't let me go further.

google drive - I pressed 'offline' and wanted to create a document and it says I need internet connection. lol.

bahularora 4 hours ago 0 replies      
Microsoft's app Translator is really good. You can even download language packs so that it works offline.
s_henry_paulson 4 hours ago 0 replies      
It's a basic feature, and perhaps it's not perfect, but for those that use this app quite a bit, this is a huge help.

Worst case, it doesn't recognize the text, and you type it in, same as you had been doing this whole time.

mtgx 6 hours ago 1 reply      
I wish they just bought Word Lens or did something similar. Using the 3G connection is the last thing you want to do when you're travelling.
rjzzleep 5 hours ago 1 reply      
i've been wondering what the photos in recaptcha were doing for a while. I guess we now have our answer. congrats i guess?
Error codes vs exceptions: critical code vs typical code yosefk.com
44 points by suraj  6 hours ago   16 comments top 6
jbert 18 minutes ago 0 replies      
Can someone who uses exceptions in large systems offer a comment on which exceptions they throw?

One of the problems I have in trying to design with exceptions is that they seem to offer a lot of potential to break abstraction layers.

As a concrete example, if you have a cacheing layer which - say - is implemented over the filesystem. In the event of an inability to access the correct location, the low-level routines might throw a permission-related exception. If you swap out the filesystem cacheing implementation with, say, one based on memcached you might instead get a network-related exception.

Neither of these types really make sense in the context of a 'cacheing layer error', they seem to leak implementation details - breaking the abstraction.

Do people accept this, or do they catch-and-rethrow new exception types at major layer boundaries? (e.g. in the above two implementations, both low-level exceptions may be caught and rethrown as "CacheInitialisationError" with some perhaps some additional diagnostic about the underlying cause). If they have such API-specific error types, do you go to the trouble of modelling an exception type hierarchy? So all your 'cache layer' exceptions inherit from 'CacheError' so a higher level can catch all "CacheExceptions" in one place? This seems like a lot of additional modelling effort, is it commonplace?

To my mind, the possible exceptions a API call may make (or equivalently, the errors it could return) are part of the API, and the errors need to be at the same conceptual level as the rest of the API. (So you can't have filesystem errors in a generic cache API).

What happens in practice?

kombine 21 minutes ago 0 replies      
Example from the article criticizing exceptions:


D programming language for example has an excellent support for RAII with ScopeGuard statement http://dlang.org/statement.html#ScopeGuardStatement The example in question will become:


Then even if wait_for_our_men_to_come_in() throws we still close the gate. There is additional granularity - we can execute statement on success or failure too.

The technique was originally developed by Andrei Alexandrescu for C++ and described in http://www.drdobbs.com/cpp/generic-change-the-way-you-write-...

shin_lao 3 hours ago 3 replies      
If you use C++ without exceptions, it means you cannot use the STL or any library that throws. Pretty weak.

Additionally, almost all examples of "exceptions are bad", fall short because of RAII (at least in C++) or finally clauses (in other languages).

Good reasons for (almost) not using exceptions (in C++):

- Performances

- "Expectability"/readability

- Platform-dependant constraints

There are probably others, but the article only talks about the "readability" arguments without even mentioning things such as exceptions specifications.

One thing you need to remember about exceptions: they're nothing more than a fancy goto.

hackinthebochs 51 minutes ago 0 replies      
Exceptions are far far more readable than error code handling. Exceptions allow one to separate error handling from the structure of the "mainline" execution path of an algorithm. Weaving if/else statements in and out of the mainline path of an algorithm muddies the intent. Exceptions help with this greatly. Instead of having to comprehend the entirety of the algorithm (when exception handling can sometimes take up 50% or more of the code), you can zero in on the most common execution path. Then understand the degenerate cases in turn. The fewer branches your brain has to process in any given moment is a boon for readability.

Yes, exceptions are just fancy goto's--but that is a good thing! Goto's when used sparingly can greatly increase the readability of exception handling code. Exceptions simply create a language level abstraction for this functionality.

nsfyn55 3 hours ago 0 replies      
Java world -> Aren't checked exceptions just error codes that use types instead of arbitrary values and compiler gaurantees?

And wasn't the thought that checked exceptions would be better for critical code because the compiler guaranteed that they were handled.

I'm no fan of java's error handling, but I think that the insinuation that the lack of any formal error handling makes you write less error prone code is bordering on the absurd.

Detail oriented individuals write robust code given the constraints of their environment. If its arbitrary strings that indicate error state they use strings if its integer return codes they use integer return codes.

PaulHoule 3 hours ago 3 replies      
Another weak article. He never mentions

try {
} finally {

your first instinct should be to use finally, not catch, but Java brought us the tragedy of checked exceptions (in which your #1 motivation in working with exceptions is to shut up the compiler) and the bad habits have been adopted by people who use other languages that copy the (otherwise pretty good) Java exception handling style.

Foxconn Shuts Plant as Workers Injured, Arrested in Brawl pcgerms.com
20 points by jhony_d  3 hours ago   7 comments top 3
motters 24 minutes ago 0 replies      
I'm aware of the problems which have gone on at Foxconn and personally I do not wish to purchase products manufactured in that manner. The main problem is that as a consumer it's hard to distinguish between products constructed within reasonable working practices and other products made under conditions analogous to slavery in prison-like dormitories. So I think there needs to be something similar to "fair trade", but for computing gadgets.
cantankerous 1 hour ago 1 reply      
"the fight had started between the rival worker groups in Foxconn dorms"

Perhaps they mean gangs? I find myself bummed out about the lack of assurance that I can obtain a mainstream mobile product (or, heck, computer-like product) produced in such a way that doesn't, at some point, involve workers in prison-like conditions.

Now I can't say with any certainty that I know for a fact that conditions are actually like this, but the rumors and stories you hear from China certainly don't make things sound good. What is one to do?

jonknee 1 hour ago 1 reply      
Wonder what this will do to iPhone 5 shipments... Probably a lot less than the perceived damage since this will start up another round of working condition articles in Western press.

The end result will likely be a shortened timeline for Foxconn's robotics plan. Robots rarely stage protests.

New Zealand PM requests inquiry into illegal Megaupload wire tapping beehive.govt.nz
166 points by polemic  14 hours ago   35 comments top 7
dendory 12 hours ago 1 reply      
The sad thing isn't that we found out they used an illegal warrant, they had suspicious motives, or used illegal wiretapping, but that this comes out purely because this is such a public case. Just think if so much shady business goes on in a case they know will be high profile, how widespread and commonplace these practices must be all around. How many other cases we won't ever hear about because they aren't so scrutinized? Are we yet at a place where officers breaking the law is so commonplace they just don't care or even think about it anymore? Is going by the book something we tell children about, but we all know it never happens?
stfu 11 hours ago 2 replies      
It is great to see that there are still "somewhere" in the world high level politicians who take these kind of things seriously. Judging by the coziness of the US administration with the Entertainment industry and its lacking willingness to clean up issues such as the Fast and Furious/AFT gunwalking scandal, I very much doubt that this would have happened in the US.
jordanthoms 12 hours ago 3 replies      
Makes me proud to be a kiwi. Aside from the initial raid, I think the systems have held up well despite lots of 'international pressure'
Gustomaximus 12 hours ago 1 reply      
And just as importantly: "Mr Key says he has also asked the Inspector-General to recommend any measures he considered necessary to prevent the issue from happening again."
Matsta 12 hours ago 1 reply      
Meh, nothing is going to happen. We'll probably never hear the results of the outcome of the inquiry. If NZ Police are involved, they'll just take their sweet merry time until we all forget about it and then move onto something else.
oreilly 9 hours ago 0 replies      
A lot more information on this can be found in the NZ Herald (Major newspaper) here:
ihsw 12 hours ago 2 replies      
It seems 'Democracy' will be coming to NZ soon.
Firefox turns 10 years old today (Phoenix v0.1) mozilla.org
239 points by mburns  17 hours ago   43 comments top 17
tree_of_item 14 hours ago 1 reply      
>You said this is a lean, lightweight browser, but it's 8MB! I laugh at your silly lies!

>Take it easy, sport. Phoenix has many files that override those in Mozilla, but it also has a new set of files. These files render a ton of files in Mozilla unnecessary, but we haven't yet stopped packaging the old files. It also still contains the modern theme and all the composer UI. In short, we haven't done any work yet to minimize the size, but we expect to be able to hit 6MB with a little work.

Things have changed quite a bit.

nsns 10 hours ago 1 reply      
Congratulations! A toast to one of the most prominent (and, alas, one of the last, with Wikipedia) non-consumerist-centered tools of the web.
peterwwillis 1 hour ago 0 replies      
I really miss Phoenix. The tiny size, almost non-existent feature set, incredible snappy speed, and still wide compatibility with most (if not all) websites of the day.

Then there's Firefox. It's taken years to get to a point where you aren't swapping from three page loads. It has hardware graphics rendering and built-in video codecs. An entire development environment. And "helpful" features that try to guess what you're thinking and end up using more bandwidth, i/o and cpu than is necessary.

I know, i'm a luddite, i'm old-fashioned, i'm hindering progress. But get off my lawn! I just want a single tool that does something well. What's wrong with just releasing plugins for the features that aren't strictly text and image web content?

sabret00the 16 hours ago 0 replies      
Happy birthday. Thank you for serving me with my best interests at heart for so long.
acomjean 15 hours ago 1 reply      
10 years ago the browser market was very different. ie dominant and many sites (banking in particular) "ie only". Mac had a version of ie and linux as a web surfing platform was wanting.

Firefox has been a good thing.

for those using firefox, the browser has more information.

go to the address

Maybe "information" is a stretch, but its fun.

RyanMcGreal 4 hours ago 0 replies      
After making the jump from Netscape 4.5/4.72 to Mozilla 1.2, I stayed on Mozilla until Firefox 1.0 came out. I've been using Firefox ever since. I've got Chrome installed, mostly to check that websites work properly in it, but it never pulled me away from Firefox.
mariuz 4 hours ago 0 replies      
Here is my guide to run it under ubuntu karmik

My guess the same instructions should work on ubuntu 12.04 lts

chris_wot 5 hours ago 1 reply      
It's interesting that 0.3 had the ability to right click on an image to block the server it comes from... I'm assuming this is a preference or an extension nowadays!


pan69 16 hours ago 4 replies      
The Firefox Wikipedia page states:

"Initial release November 9, 2004; 7 years ago" [1]

Maybe they're referring to the 1.0 release? I do remember using Firefox way earlier than that, it must have been 2000 or 2001. I guess those were 0.x releases. Wikipedia doesn't seem to say anything about that.

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firefox

joneil 12 hours ago 0 replies      
I started using Phoenix at v0.3 and remember just how "new" it felt. At the time I was still running Windows (maybe even 98?) and was experimenting with Linux, but hated the netscape/mozilla options. Phoenix was fast, had tabs, a popup blocker, and no ads (unlike Opera). I was a proud user then, and I think they've done remarkably well given the massive competition from three commercial software giants - I'm still a happy user today. Well done Mozilla.
rangibaby 16 hours ago 0 replies      
Already?! HB Firefox. And thanks for showing us that there was a better way than IE6.
starik36 8 hours ago 0 replies      
I remember installing it for the first time and it felt just right. The other browsers at the time (Mozilla Suite, Netscape 6.x, IE) just felt so bulky.

You could tell right away that this software was going to go places.

dimitar 17 hours ago 6 replies      
Early Firefox felt really responsive and it was more functional and safe than IE.

What happened? I still use it, but I definitely don't feel the same about it.

yenoham 8 hours ago 0 replies      
I never thought I'd get to a time where web browser milestones began to make me feel old.
dain 14 hours ago 0 replies      
Second line down "earch" should be "Search", in case anyone at Mozilla is reading this.
noibl 16 hours ago 0 replies      
What, no gimmick? PR fail.

(Not that it seems to have done much for Opera, but Mozilla is in a better position to capitalise.)

Facebook rolls out its Offers deals and discounts globally internetretailer.com
8 points by lvalverde  2 hours ago   3 comments top 2
jonursenbach 10 minutes ago 1 reply      
I thought they discontinued this last year?


impostervt 1 hour ago 0 replies      
We'll see if this actually turns into a viable revenue source for them. We aggregate every Facebook Offer at http://www.foibly.com, and there there's been less then 1,000 since they started promoting them in March.
Kickstarter's Hidden Wasteheap of Killed Projects wired.com
13 points by cwan  3 hours ago   1 comment top
smoyer 2 hours ago 0 replies      
Lightly discussed yesterday at http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4562028
       cached 24 September 2012 16:02:02 GMT