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1000+ Nokia workers have walked out in protest (in English via Google Translate) googleusercontent.com
124 points by benwerd 3 hours ago   79 comments top 15
8 points by beagle3 23 minutes ago 3 replies      
Does this remind anyone else of SGI?

- Total domination of their own field

- Resting on laurels while others snatch the market from under them

- Panic

- Get a CEO from Microsoft

- CEO quickly decides that the O/S developed in house is not worth maintaining. And that the right O/S is no other than Microsoft's offering

- Company continues dive to irrelevance, albeit at a much faster rate than before

Well, the last one hasn't happened to Nokia. yet.

Goodbye old Nokia. You will be missed.

25 points by marshray 2 hours ago replies      
Let's see

1. Hire someone from Microsoft to run the company

2. He says "our platform is burning, we have to do something drastic" which most people interpret as "prepare to come up with a strategy and fight like hell to win".

3. Guess what, he already had something in mind! It was "throw out our current reasonably successful development efforts and become a licensee of Microsoft's failed platform instead". And piss off all our QT-based app developers at the same time.

What could possibly go wrong?

I seriously wonder if this guy might not end up having to leave and not set foot in Finland (or the EU) again for fear of arrest. I have a feeling some Finland business regulators will be going through his emails with a fine-toothed comb.

17 points by davidw 2 hours ago 2 replies      
Whether it was Android, Microsoft, or slowly dying, people working there would be affected, so I'm not sure the choice of Microsoft changes things too much from that point of view. With Android, perhaps they could have kept more people on board to hack on it and customize it, but still, the axe was going to fall.

Should be interesting to see how this is handled in Finland. Stock is down, layoffs, and some "arrogant foreigner" in charge would be a recipe for even more change in some places.

9 points by stcredzero 1 hour ago 1 reply      
It's exactly this sort of tech expertise revolt that happened at the largest Smalltalk company at the time -- when out of touch management announced the company was going to go the direction of Java/JVM.

This is not an indication of mismanagement. This is mismanagement (of employee expectations, culture, and perception) plainly visible in public.

Nokia needs to figure this out right now, or they are going to bleed intellectual and technical assets.

1 point by yason 1 minute ago 0 replies      
The end of the last ten years of Nokia's downhill: a quiet disappearance into a puff of irrelevance.
3 points by brk 35 minutes ago 0 replies      
If I interpret the page correctly, somewhere between 1000 and 1500 employees at this location ALL worked on the Symbian OS.

THAT might have been part of the problem. 1000+ people for a mobile OS? And people wonder why Nokia can't innovate fast enough to keep up with iOS or Android?

19 points by Kilimanjaro 2 hours ago 4 replies      
No PR campaign can save Nokia from this well-deserved disaster.

Btw, NOK is down 15%

3 points by eiji 39 minutes ago 0 replies      
Am I the only one happy that WP7 is NOT dead?

I very much prefer a threesome!
Every mobil user will benefit from this. And this is not like Desktop. Everybody will have to bring their A-Game.

2 points by latch 1 hour ago 1 reply      
This kind of behavior makes me wish at-will employment was the norm throughout the world. If you aren't happy, quit. Change was clearly needed and change was made. Work hard for your company or find a different place to work that'll make you happier. Everyone thinks they could make better decisions.
4 points by xbryanx 1 hour ago 2 replies      
If I understand the garbled translation, the Nokia workers took advantage of extremely flexible work time to stage a coordinated, but totally non-rule-breaking walk out. I've never heard of this sort of half-strike method, but it's interesting. Is this something that is common in Europe or Scandinavian countries where a more flexible work schedule is common?
2 points by tituomin 36 minutes ago 0 replies      
2 points by taylorbuley 1 hour ago 2 replies      
Regardless of whether you agree with the CEO's position I think it's pretty childish to walk out on your job.
1 point by p90x 23 minutes ago 0 replies      
I guess we won't be seeing a RIM, Microsoft merger any time soon then.
2 points by shimi 1 hour ago 0 replies      
I wonder what was the reaction if Nokia would have decided to adopt Android?
1 point by mise 2 hours ago 1 reply      
Heh heh, try to back-button yourself out of that page.
GroupOn, LivingSocial engaging in questionable practices techcrunch.com
45 points by benwerd 1 hour ago   19 comments top 9
1 point by portman 1 minute ago 0 replies      
FYI, this is a link to a comment, not to the story.

It can sometimes take 20+ seconds to load the comments, so here it is for anyone who is having trouble:

"when groupon called me and wanted to run a http://socialprintshop.com deal, their sales rep basically told me to double the price of my product for a month to make things work for me giving a 50% off deal. Living Social did the exact same thing, as did another deal site that reached out to me. Living social only required me to lower the price for 1 week after the deal ended."

5 points by maukdaddy 1 hour ago 3 replies      
This should come as no surprise to anyone who has a business background or has ever worked in retail.

I have no doubt their business will continue to be successful, as b&m stores are, but I have serious doubt about their sustained growth prospects as the newness of their model wears off. At some point Groupon is going to have to rely on the same sleazy sales tactics as b&m stores, which will turn off a majority of the early adopters.

9 points by systemtrigger 31 minutes ago 0 replies      
A Sr VP of a well-known sports equipment brand told me he was planning to create a new product for the sole purpose of selling it on Groupon - in order to maximize his profit margin. The product will be virtually identical to a competing product in his line.
5 points by us 44 minutes ago 1 reply      
The title of this thread should really be changed. First, I get that LivingSocial is of the same type of business and hence was mentioned in the title but then its more than just Groupon and LivingSocial.

Second, it's not Groupon that is engaging in the questionable practices. When you're going through massive deals like this, it can be easy to miss that the retailer you're doing business with is pulling a sly one on you. It's not uncommon to get a separate link and to think that some on here would believe that Groupon should thoroughly go through every link and verify for price discrepancy that may show up is unrealistic.

Lastly, it's also not uncommon for coupons to be honored on original prices rather than sale prices.

1 point by WillyF 36 minutes ago 1 reply      
Having had a Groupon shouldn't preclude a business from offering other promotions. Typically you can't combine a Groupon with another offer, so if a restaurant has 20% off Mondays and you use a Groupon, they'll probably charge you full price and then subtract the Groupon. If people are truly unhappy with the FTD deal, then I'm sure Groupon will live up to The Groupon Promise and happily refund them.

The comment that this links to is much more disturbing, but it happens whenever you have a huge sales team. The real question is whether deals based on inflated prices are actually being sold. That would be alarming.

2 points by wccrawford 1 hour ago 1 reply      
It's not unusual to disallow coupons on the sale price of items. I admit that's questionable, but...

GroupOn didn't do this. FTD did. As far as GroupOn knew, everything was good, so far as I can tell. Throwing mud on their name without any proof at all is wrong.

2 points by wildmXranat 30 minutes ago 0 replies      
Hold on, you mean there's a markup on those discounts?
4 points by aikinai 52 minutes ago 1 reply      
LivingSocial isn't mentioned in this article at all. Why are they included in the title of the submission?
0 points by keltex 49 minutes ago 0 replies      
Another thing I've see (by a 3rd site... Homerun.com) is being added to their list when I've never even visited the site. Somebody in my contact list added me to their list and now I get their spam.
37signals support satisfaction ratings now public 37signals.com
21 points by wlll 52 minutes ago   1 comment top
2 points by fredoliveira 11 minutes ago 0 replies      
I have to give it to these guys (I work on a competitor product). Even though this is a simple idea and possibly something of trivial implementation, it's clear, honest, and just plain nice. My hat is off to them for keeping their customers happy - very well done.
Ask HN: Do you know Photoshop?
15 points by thesash 27 minutes ago   9 comments top 9
3 points by oneplusone 6 minutes ago 0 replies      
I have thought about making video tutorials on how to use Photoshop to create practical design elements. Ie, how to make a button or how to design a header. Something every programmer making their own webapp could use that doesn't really require much Photoshop knowledge.

Would there be any interest?

1 point by corin_ 2 minutes ago 0 replies      
Voted "I know the basics but want to learn more", but a more accurate answer would be "I know the basics and that's all I need to know, and all I want to know".
2 points by jcsalterego 5 minutes ago 0 replies      
The Photoshop basics get me around for casual UI mocking -- layers, blending options, gradients, free transforms -- but I haven't mastered the shapes or pen tool in PS.

Illustrator is where I head for scalable vector stuff (duh). Despite having seen some crazy, crazy awesome wizardry with the Photoshop pen tool, in AI the pen tool is much more manageable and powerful IMHO, especially in conjunction with the all-powerful Pathfinder.

2 points by marquis 7 minutes ago 0 replies      
I find 'You suck at Photoshop' amusing and educational.


1 point by mikhuang 2 minutes ago 0 replies      
For web design, I find myself using Illustrator for rough mockups since it's much better at Photoshop at text editing and rapidly mocking stuff up (and making quick copies of everything for side by side comparison).
2 points by notphilatall 7 minutes ago 0 replies      
No option for "I know the basics, and don't immediately see the need to learn more?"
4 points by yasith 14 minutes ago 0 replies      
Gimp + Inkscape, just the basics.
1 point by theoretical 7 minutes ago 0 replies      
I use Fireworks. I find it so much easier for doing web design/photo editing/anything than Photoshop.
1 point by doctoroakin 13 minutes ago 0 replies      
I am a photoshop master
BBC To Delete 172 Websites Due to Budget Cuts, Geek Saves Them for $3.99 readwriteweb.com
91 points by rmah 3 hours ago   31 comments top 12
44 points by bena 3 hours ago 3 replies      
Horrible reporting.

The cost to the BBC to keep those pages on its servers is more than $3.99. Just because one guy downloaded all of the pages, compressed them, and then seeded them on bittorrent for a cost of $3.99 to him doesn't mean jack.

Notice that he's not hosting the content in any easily readable form. No, he decided to put that burden on everyone by putting it up on bittorrent. Why isn't he hosting the content? Because hosting a heavily trafficked site ain't cheap.

7 points by jrwoodruff 3 hours ago 0 replies      
I can't believe this passes for reporting. Did anyone contact the BBC for their estimate of the amount they'll save and how?

Also, just because the info isn't public does not mean the BBC doesn't have it stored in their own digital archives.

4 points by bugsy 1 hour ago 0 replies      
Just a note for those wondering about the content of the archive.

Having downloaded it, it's around 2GB compressed. It contains images, but most pages are nonfunctional, due to links being specified from the site root /. To view it properly you need to place the folders at the root of your web server or of your hard drive.

1 point by GBond 12 minutes ago 0 replies      
Am I missing something? Where is the price of $3.99 derived from? Cost of creating the spider script? Labor cost of creating the BT seed? This article say nothing about this.
3 points by v21 2 hours ago 0 replies      
The real issue is "Cool URIs don't change" vs "The BBC is hideously bloated". Keeping these sites online isn't so terribly expensive. Keeping a few hundred extra lines in your .htaccess isn't expensive. I've not seen a decent estimate of the cost savings, and as far as I know one doesn't exist. The material is being archived inside the BBC, as well as in torrents like this one. But the URLs are being broken, for no reason besides sending a message.
2 points by jsskate 25 minutes ago 0 replies      
Did any of you actually see the content?

I downloaded one of the sites in the torrent titled Zombies. It's about a British girl who organizes a community effort to make a Zombie Movie. Sure the site was ripped but not the video content. Nothing on the page is worth seeing other than the video. Once the BBC turns off access to that stream the archive is virtually useless. I'm going to checkout more ripped sites; my gut says they're probably video heavy too.

5 points by chopsueyar 3 hours ago 1 reply      
If the BBC is unable to host these sites because of budgetary issues, is the BBC also unable to pursue copyright infringement of these same sites if a third party were to set up the site/s in a different country?
4 points by kgtm 3 hours ago 0 replies      
The BBC needs to make visible cuts in places where the British (anti-BBC) press accuse them of providing services that they believe should be provided by private companies.If the site doesn't vanish the press wouldn't see it as a real cut, would they? [1]

[1] sambeau, http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2188870

1 point by jedsmith 2 hours ago 3 replies      
We've graduated from the grammatically-incorrect singular they to s/he? Really?
0 points by danohuiginn 1 hour ago 0 replies      
Does anybody have a good idea of how much it does cost for a big organisation to keep this kind of content online?

Intuitively, it seems that the answer should be 'not much' -- perhaps on the order of a few thousand dollars/year. A couple of servers, bandwidth, and a sysadmin checking in now and again to apply security patches &c.

But here (also with e.g. yahoo closing geocities), it's argued that the cost of keeping them up is much, much higher. Where does the expense come from?

2 points by rorrr 2 hours ago 0 replies      
It's not the hosting that costs much usually, it's developers + editors + managers + their managers. It all adds up very quickly.
1 point by awakeasleep 3 hours ago 2 replies      
I don't understand is situation, but it sounds like a case of the Government removing a high visibility public resource as a sort of protest to budget cuts. Eg: http://i.imgur.com/Vdk6D.jpg

Even if that is the case, I'd sure like to see a breakdown of expense when a cut like this is made.

Microsoft just bought Nokia for $0 jacquesmattheij.com
169 points by plinkplonk 6 hours ago   105 comments top 29
19 points by maxklein 4 hours ago 4 replies      
When I read such articles, that's when you realise that people are resistant to change. It's like those people still using Windows XP because it's the best. Tech is in constant change, but at some point, some people just give up and decide not to join in anymore: not to make facebook accounts, not to join twitter, not to upgrade their OS, not to switch browser.

That's what this post is: someone refusing to face the changing landscape of tech.

Mobile is greater than what it seemed to be at the start. Mobile operating systems are no longer button phones, they are computers, and they are going to integrate with the desktop tightly. That's the new world, and in such a world, there are only going to be just a few platforms.

Nokia had almost zero chance of being the new platform. Microsoft continues to maintain strong platform presence on the desktop, browser, gaming console/set-top, and they have brought in a strong mobile platform, even if sales are lack-luster now.

Android provides a free, single platform for everybody else.

Apple has their iPhone eco-system, which is not open to others to use.

If Nokia stays on their platform, they will surely fade into irrelevance, and at some point they will need to switch to Android, and be years behind all the other Android clones. That would be the end of Nokia.

The Microsoft-Nokia deal basically has given the Microsoft mobile platform relevance, and it means that a big chunk of the mobile market will be MS/Nokia, and that will ensure that Nokia remains relevant.

With this move, the integrated platform market has basically been divided into three equal chunks (Android, iOS, MS) and for the new few year people are going to have to choose between those. Nokia as a hardware manufacturer - if it does good deals with MS, will basically form one-half of the third major platform. That's how it will stay relevant.

After this deal, Android is likely going to become more popular, because most other hardware manufacturers will bet full-scale on android. However, the problem is that Android lacks a desktop environment, so canot be as tightly integrated as the other two platforms could.

So I expect Android to take the role of feature-phones now, while MS and Apple control and split the high-end market.

I'm not sure what role blackberry will play in all this.

17 points by noonespecial 5 hours ago 3 replies      
The whole thing feels like shark-jumping if you ask me. I'd watch Nokia stock today and see if investors don't agree. I'm betting they do. I wish I knew a damn thing about investing, I'd short this one for sure.
8 points by latch 5 hours ago 3 replies      
Some reports suggested that [considerable] money was part of the deal. Do we know for sure whether this is or isn't the case?

"Microsoft invests $300 million in a strategic partnership with Nokia" is a lot different than "Microsoft just bought Nokia for $0."

18 points by arethuza 5 hours ago 1 reply      
I think the "the same happen without any risk to MS" is an excellent point - the downside for Microsoft is limited and the upside is pretty good. For Nokia the upside is limited (at best you are yet-another Windows Mobile 7 handset manufacturer - it's not like they have an exclusive) and the downside is huge.
3 points by ErrantX 3 hours ago 0 replies      
Ok really thick comment. If the mass market is being stolen by Android... why didn't Nokia start using Android?

It would seem the logical idea; if the platform is burning rather than trying to stand on a piece of planking that has a history of falling in the ocean.. why not dowse yourself in petrol and fling yourself into the inferno.

I mean; if the argument is that Android is eating up the market Nokia wants... then why not have the easiest slice?

11 points by bambax 5 hours ago 1 reply      
This post is so true and so sad.

> most of Nokia's brand loyalty is because of the indestructible and unbelievably reliable phones they made in the 90's, since then they've been steadily dropping on that front

Nokia phones are still the most reliable and solid, by far... for now.

9 points by wippler 5 hours ago 3 replies      
I think the post is unnecessarily harsh on both Nokia and Microsoft. Windows Phone is now a lot better and is comparable with iOS/Android, only thing it is lacking is apps.

Nokia making this decision much late in the game clearly knows that Microsoft also came late to the game. It needs MS as much as MS needs Nokia. Together with huge marketing muscle of MS, they can surely make something out of the partnership.

8 points by pietrofmaggi 5 hours ago 1 reply      
The main problem of the late Nokia is the (lack of) speed in innovation.

If they jump on the Android boat they'll have to fight against Samsung, Motorola, HTC, LG, etc.. Look at the current performance of Sony-Ericsson.

On the Windows Phone 7 boat they are the big fish, and they can try to deliver some good products without to much competition (in the WP7 environment).

6 points by abijlani 4 hours ago 1 reply      
I completely disagree with the article. He treats both Nokia and Microsoft as though they have no idea what they are doing. Microsoft has decades of experience in coming up from behind place and crushing the competition. As for Nokia, they make really good hardware. They got caught up in selling cheap handsets because it was great business for a while but that does not mean they cannot make great hardware. I think this is a great move for both companies and even better for consumers.
2 points by iuguy 3 hours ago 1 reply      
My favourite phone was the Nokia 6210. That thing was damned near indestructable. The 6310i was also great but it only really added bluetooth and had no authentication on the AT modem profile (which meant anyone could connect to it and dial up to the Internet, snarf data and so on whenever bluetooth was on).

The problem with Nokia was that they kept messing around with Symbian and didn't really know what it was for, making clunky interfaces that while better than Windows Mobile at the time were just blown away by the iphone.

Instead of trying to provide a better experience than the iphone, they went crazy trying to imitate it and as a result failed to innovate. Ultimately Nokia's marriage to Symbian pretty much screwed the pooch. They had to ditch it but for what? If they're just another android OEM they're going to have some interoperability issues and it'll still be quite expensive. Switching to Microsoft means that if the tech is good it'll be well supported with a long term roadmap by guys with a good track record elsewhere. Nokia won't be just another OEM - they will be able to influence Microsoft's development. They still shift huge amounts of phones especially at the lower end of the market, and Microsoft will recognise that.

Sure Nokia are down but not out, and I think this is better for both than the title suggests.

4 points by Swannie 4 hours ago 0 replies      
Nokia were clearly the leader 10 years ago.

Whilst at the front of the race they took their eye off for a little distraction called Symbian. The problem there was the complete lack of control over the UI. Symbian forked their UI for phone and tablet, and phone producers forked their own UIs again (UIQ, Series 60,80,90), making upgrading the existing UI centrally practically impossible. The only option was to start from scratch... oops. The committee appears to have made a big deal out of binary compatibility. Yet with today's consumer, that is not important on a smart phone, when we want to get apps from a store.

Nokia looked up and has realised it's now running on a different track to everyone else - the finish line moved and they can't catch up (3 years to get from the old UI's, and we've still not got shiny new Symbian in mass market products). Time to get into the current race.

The problem with branching Android, is that it puts them back in exactly the same sort of situation they were in when they backed Symbian. By going with Microsoft they have moved to a much more controlled system. Microsoft have buckets of experience with smart phones, and I believe that WM7 will be the XP of mobile. Let's just hope they don't Vista it.

3 points by ThomPete 4 hours ago 0 replies      
As always here in HN we tend to focus on the actual technology and platform rather than what it do for normal people.

This is a great win both for Microsoft as it is for Nokia and as it is for the millions of people who are just regular phone users.

Yes nokia will have to build an ecosystem (http://000fff.org/the-power-of-digital-ecoystems/)

But they still have huge market share with people who are not likely to care that there exist an iPhone because it's too expensive.

And if the market is in fact trending smartphones in 2011-2012 nokia will have great opportunity to develop a market into a smartphone market with their existing base.

2 points by rodh257 3 hours ago 1 reply      
Why is this on the front page? Come on. Anyone who thinks this deal isn't good for both parties is kidding themselves. After years of trying to create their own operating system Nokia have finally admitted they need to invest in an ecosystem. If they were to take on Android they'd be late to an already full party.

With WP7 there's no one seriously pushing it, Dell, LG both aren't famous for their phones. HTC owes most of what they have to Android. Nokia and Microsoft working together is a partnership not to be written off. It's a point of difference for Nokia, and Microsoft isn't going to be out of this game, they'll invest and invest and they will be a major player, you watch.

A lot of ridiculous statements have been made by bloggers of late when discussing smartphones, but I don't think I've heard any as silly as this:
"And to those whose Nokia/Windows smartphones will give them the mobile variation on the MS 'BSOD' while calling 911, my condolences to you too."

5 points by ghenne 3 hours ago 1 reply      
Here's what is happening. Microsoft wants to buy Nokia, but not with all those buildings full of people. The announcements mean than Nokia can now get to work laying off tens of thousands of people. They don't need 120,000 employees anymore. Everybody involved in Symbian can go. Most of the Meego staff, too, as well as lots of middle and upper management. It won't cost Microsoft a cent in severance pay.

Once it's all cleaned up, Microsoft can complete the purchase. The stock price should be lower too, reducing the total cost further.

4 points by cincinnatus 4 hours ago 1 reply      
A fair bit of hyperbole and fanboy-ism happening here. Which is completely understandable.

It is pretty clear that WP7 is not Windows Mobile, that Microsoft does in fact finally get it.

Jumping on the Android bandwagon is not in any way clearly a better or safer move. In fact from a market perspective those waters are considerably more bloody and getting worse every day.

This is a desperation play by Nokia in the high end of the market for certain, but of all the bad choices they had available this may be the least bad. I is also likely true that there is no move they could make that would ever result in bringing them back to the heights of their past. Innovators dilemma in action.

1 point by johnyzee 2 hours ago 0 replies      
What do you mean $0? From what I heard Microsoft paid several hundred million dollars in this deal.

Ah, here it is:


Note that a couple of hundred million was on the table from several bidders. If there are more than a few living braincells left at Nokia they probably got significantly more out of it than that.

3 points by Uchikoma 4 hours ago 1 reply      
Nokia wants to be Apple but acts like Dell, this does not make any sense.

Disclaimer: Being Dell is nice, but you need to think like Dell concerning their, much lower, margins. And whatever Microsoft tells you, you're just one of many and compete with HTC, not Apple.

1 point by martythemaniak 1 hour ago 0 replies      
Now imagine what Nokia could have done had they picked up Palm and installed Jon Rubenstein as their CEO instead. facepalm
7 points by therockhead 5 hours ago 0 replies      
Nokia made a lot of mistakes in the past but I think the biggest one was not buying Palm/WebOS.They could have had a great OS and have total control of there future.
4 points by shareme 5 hours ago 1 reply      
Considering that Nokia's decision to stab other Symbian partners in the back form way back and do an UI and than have the failure of Symbian for years blow up in their face I would state that Nokia is about worth $0.
1 point by aniket_ray 4 hours ago 1 reply      
Contrary to everyone else I actually think this is a smart move. Personally, I didn't find Windows Phone 7 too bad compared to an iPhone.

The only thing that Apple has in its favour is the RDF.

Nokia needs a differentiating OS, Android is not that OS. I don't think Nokia wants to become a bit part commodity hardware manufacturer. So Windows Phone 7 might turn out to be a smart move.

Nokia is in a position to capture the cheap smartphone category, a category that is still up for grabs.

2 points by ashr 3 hours ago 0 replies      
No doubt that MS has a great opportunity now and so has Nokia. Their partnership better move fast otherwise it won't be able to benefit.

Without knowing the details of the partnership, the content in the OP sounds mostly hyperbole and opinion at best.

1 point by ig1 4 hours ago 1 reply      
I sincerely hope that Elop sold all of his Microsoft shares before he joined Nokia, otherwise he could be breaking all kinds of laws right now.
1 point by jogjayr 48 minutes ago 0 replies      
So months ago, using an external OS (Android) was like "Finnis boys peeing their pants to keep warm", but now it's a good strategic partnership? And especially given Elop's very recent Microsoft ties, could there possibly be some other agenda?
1 point by SudarshanP 3 hours ago 1 reply      
Nokia to developers: no Qt for Windows Phone development as posted on another HN thread.


Linux(KDE) has a lot of Qt stuff. Will the Nokia Microsoft marriage hurt Linux badly in some way?

1 point by innes 1 hour ago 0 replies      
Sorry, but reflexively mentioning 'the BSOD' is pretty much a red flag for me when it comes to taking an argument seriously.
1 point by mariusmg 4 hours ago 1 reply      
"And to those whose Nokia/Windows smartphones will give them the mobile variation on the MS 'BSOD' while calling 911, my condolences to you too."

Just a giant frustrated douchebag who likes Android. Why is this even submitted? It's clearly trolling

1 point by paolomaffei 3 hours ago 1 reply      
Wasn't the 3310 the Nokia high point?
1 point by tomelders 4 hours ago 0 replies      
um... didn't Microsoft pay Nokia a lot of money for this deal?
Pervasive myths about older software developers lessonsoffailure.com
61 points by cpr 3 hours ago   34 comments top 14
16 points by edw519 1 hour ago 0 replies      
Another "I have witnessed X" so "Y must be true" post.

I've been programming commercially for 32 years and in all that time, I have found very little correlation between age and ability to deliver quality software.

I have worked with younger, inexperienced, and uneducated programmers who were willing to learn, with minds like sponges and who were a pleasure to work with. They often found or thought of things the rest of us overlooked.

I have worked with younger, inexperienced, and well educated programmers who thought they knew better and were obstacles to progress.

I have worked with older programmers with the same one year's experience 22 times. Oy.

I have worked with older programmers with excellent domain knowledge and limited technical range. Their personality and willingness to succeed were often the key to progress.

I have worked with older programmers with excellent technical range and limited domain knowledge. Sometimes it's hard to teach an old dog new tricks, but when you can, results can be golden.

I have worked with brilliant older programmers with extensive experience and open minds. The best of all worlds.

(By the way, I have also worked with programmers of many ethnicities, female, handicapped, gay, Republican, religious, even left-handed, and have found little or no correlation between their "description" and their "performance". One of the beauties of programming is that the easiest way to evaluate your performance is through your work itself and not much else.)

30 points by kabdib 2 hours ago 2 replies      
I'm about to turn 50.

I've had a /great/ last ten years. I'm not sure what the next decade is going to be like, but keeping fit and keeping up with industry stuff that matters are high on my list.

I've seen many older developers "die" by

- Getting into management (and not keeping up technically)

- Becoming complacent and not learning new things on a continual basis

- Getting stuck doing the same thing for years

I don't mean you should be a butterfly -- nobody likes working with someone who's only spent three months on any project and to whom everything new and flaky is "oooh, shiny!" -- but I've seen too many people just get stuck and seem not to care.

My father in law retired as a C programmer when he was 75. I've seen people considering starting a start-up at 60. If you take care of yourself and your industry smarts, I don't see why this couldn't be you, too.

6 points by silverbax88 1 hour ago 1 reply      
The one point of contention I have with the article is about older programmers 'thinking more slowly'. This is again reiterated in the comments below the article. This is not true, we actually learn faster as we get older as long as we stay mentally active. In other words, we 'learn how to learn'. There are things that I can grasp now so easily that eluded me when I was 20. If you can't think faster and learn easier when you are 40 than when you were 20, you aren't exercising your mind enough.

There's a reason why the best lawyers are NOT those right out of law school as a general rule.

6 points by Isamu 2 hours ago 2 replies      
Old developer here. Nice to affirm that these are "myths" in the sense that they are often not true, but given a random old guy these may be quite accurate. These are observations that people have made of real individuals that do not generalize to the whole group.

> Myth: Older software developers are more jaded and cynical and therefore, less desirable in the workplace than younger ones. Younger developers are more enthusiastic than older ones.

I would have to say I have been both growing in enthusiasm and getting more jaded. The getting jaded part means you no longer want to hurl yourself at something that experience tells you is doomed from the start, but the enthusiasm means maybe this new twist will make it work.

One of the great powers of youth is ignorance - the kind of ignorance that enables you to take on projects that are too big and require you to push beyond your original capabilities until you conquer. This ignorance is the source of tales that start: "if I had known what I was getting into...."

5 points by ahi 2 hours ago 2 replies      
From anecdotal evidence I will put forward another theory. Because CS and programming are relatively new and rapidly growing fields a large number of programmers in the early years were random office workers who could type, press ganged into development duties. Education started to catch up in the 80s and 90s so young kids with a real grounding in fundamentals were coming into organizations staffed with older developers who didn't have a clue. On average, older developers were incompetent, not because they were older, but because they were less likely to a) have any formal education in what they were doing and b) a particular interest in what they were doing besides the paycheck.
3 points by nika 2 hours ago 2 replies      
One thing that I think hasn't been recognized by popular engineering culture is that the guys who started programming in the 1970s had a lot less to work with, and had a harder time. They often worked in assembly, and a soldering iron was a legitimate debugging tool.

Those who started programming in the 1980s had compilers but languages were something you went out and bought, and they were sold like enterprise software, expensive, slow to be updated and not sophisticated.

Those who started programming in the 1990s came of age when a major revolution was being effected by Java. But you still had to build a lot of infrastructure, and engineering involved a large amount of tedium.

The last decade has seen a huge advancement in the quality of the tools, and thus the barrier for entry for programmers is a lot lower.

I even remember meeting one young gun who was proud of the fact that he didn't have a computer at home because this was a job, why would he do it at home?

this is the opposite of the hacker mentality. In the 1970s you had to be a rare breed of hacker, and by the 1990s mainstream hackers could get into the business.

Now people who never wrote a program before entering college are graduating with CS degrees. So it is not only that they don't have a lot of real world work experience, they often haven't been programming at all for more than 4 years.

This is a huge shift in demographics and attitudes. I'm sure many of them are very intelligent and genuine hackers... but they are a very different culture.

5 points by nika 2 hours ago 2 replies      
The thing is, when you're older, there's really no way to reach the younger generation. They aren't listening to you because you're older, for the most part, and they've been listening to their "out of touch" parents their whole lives. They won't understand until their your age, and then they'll have to deal with another younger generation.

This isn't a criticism of anyone, just my obeservation about why there is a gap.

It is a shame too, because youth has the energy and age has the wisdom, and if the two could be combined, companies would benefit.

2 points by d0m 2 hours ago 1 reply      
I totally agree with most points.. it's really more of a mentality thing than an age thing. The only part I don't totally agree is the commitment part. It's hard to deny that you have much more free time at 20 years old than at 40. I mean, I'm ~25 and I feel I don't have enough time to do and learn everything I want.. I can't imagine that I'll have any more time with children.
2 points by NxguiGui 1 hour ago 0 replies      
I am at 35. Just last year i managed to find balance and value in life. I don't care anymore about "quick success" or coolness.
I care about value. Age discrimination is a niche for some businesses to minimize expenses in a short run, but small, dedicated and experienced teams can bring so much profit and value.
When you are young you operate on blind fate, you don't have proven methodology to attack "The problem", you don't know when to stop and make turn, simply put you are giant ball of energy without direction.

You need supervising on regular basis :)))

And if you didn't hear - life begins at 40.

If you are healthy and smart you can push your energy more effectively and find satisfaction in so many things.

1 point by PaulHoule 2 hours ago 0 replies      
Personally, I've grown a lot as a software developer because of my experience with project failures. I had one that turned my life upside down, but that helped me gain the attribute of fearlessness.

I've seen the worst that can happen, and that's given me both courage and maturity.

2 points by codypo 1 hour ago 2 replies      
If you accept the article's theses that older developers are a big asset AND that they're at a disadvantage in the marketplace due to discrimination, there's an opportunity here. Rather than try to woo and retain 30 hotshot developers in their 20s, it'd be easier to hire 18 or 20 developers in their 40s. The turnover would certainly be lower, the output should be equal (or greater?), and there'd be less need for extensive management oversight.

Anybody know of a company that's tried that approach? If none exist, that leads me to think that either we're onto something interesting or that this approach simply doesn't work.

1 point by KedarMhaswade 46 minutes ago 0 replies      
What we need (to really prove the point of article) is a number of successful software startups where average age is say 38. How many of us (I am turning 40 soon) dare cross the Paul Graham Limit (23-38) on higher side? Looking at the cream of younger software craftsmen (e.g. @github) I feel many older programmers (forget outliers, please) have a mountain to climb.
1 point by pnathan 54 minutes ago 0 replies      
In my highly limited experience, subjectively, one of the key differentiators is being okay with change, and being ready to go into the unknown: the unknown language, the unknown tool, the unknown unknown.
-4 points by JoeAltmaier 3 hours ago 3 replies      
Old guys also rant about how being old is not actually a disadvantage.
Nokia's Suicide Note ibiblio.org
77 points by cwb 4 hours ago   15 comments top 6
25 points by raganwald 3 hours ago 2 replies      
Excellent analysis: Nokia has effectively announced that they have no focus and plan to spend three quarters losing money in the hops that in 2012 or 2013 WP7 is going to be a big hit for them.

It's a shame Elop doesn't take a page out of Jobs' book instead of Ballmer's. Rather than announce a strategic blah blah direction blah blah partnership blah blah, he could have called a press conference, walked on stage, and showed them a Nokia running WP7, announced a date you could buy them, and invited the heads of the world's biggest carriers on stage to announce cut-rate deals and plans for them.

p.s. I meant to write "hope," and not "hops," however considering what we make out of hops and the kind of decisions we make after drinking too much of it, I'm leaving it uncorrected.

5 points by daeken 41 minutes ago 2 replies      
Ok, I have a lot of respect for esr, but all this talk of "porting" makes me think that no one knows how any of this works. "Porting" Android or WP7 to a new phone consists of: write drivers, write userland apps that give your users the experience you want, and possibly modify your existing bootloader code. They have documentation on their hardware, they have existing BSPs to reference, etc. This is not a hard problem. Getting this up and running with basic functionality would absolutely take no more than a month. Period.
1 point by nobody_nowhere 15 minutes ago 0 replies      
Splits nokia in two? What a load of crap! Nokia is currently split into four, or five, or ten, or worse. When you consider the platforms, the hardware streams, ovi, qt -- it's a total mess of competing agendas.

I've been in the belly of the beast, and aside from having a very nice sauna, it's really ugly in there. There's total paralysis, as evidenced by the lack of competitive produts. OPK was fond of saying how nokia needed to reinvent itself, but he lacked the willpower to make any meaningful changes.

When I was there we used to say "it's hard to fire a Finn." Now some heads are finally rolling. Shaking it up like this is their only chance.

1 point by stcredzero 33 minutes ago 0 replies      
"Porting?" As I've noted already, this move sounds like he's trying to follow a script for corporate meltdown drawn from Smalltalk history:


Congrats. "Porting" enters into the plan!

If the CEO follows that script, he will have damaged employee relationships to the point that Nokia won't be able to execute some of the difficult goals he's set going forwards.

Seriously, he needs to look up some old ObjectShare alums to get some historical perspective on what he's trying to do and how it can go seriously wrong.

5 points by innes 1 hour ago 2 replies      
4 points by tommi 1 hour ago 0 replies      
Eric totally forgot about S40. It's a platform which sells very well.
Hosni Mubarak finally steps down aljazeera.net
226 points by dzlobin 1 hour ago   78 comments top 22
34 points by michaelchisari 1 hour ago 0 replies      
‎"The struggle for justice should never be abandoned because of the apparent overwhelming power of those who seem invincible in their determination to hold on to it. That apparent power has, again and again, proved vulnerable to human qualities less measurable than bombs and dollars: moral fervor, determination, unity, organization, sacrifice, wit, ingenuity, courage, patience."

- Howard Zinn

68 points by goatforce5 1 hour ago 3 replies      
Watching Al Jazeera's live stream and they had one of their journalists on the phone from the square. She expressed excitement and delight that Mubarak was gone. The host guy back in the studio pointed out the journalist on the phone had been impartial up until now, and basically apologised for her expressing her opinion.

I thought that was pretty classy.

15 points by siculars 50 minutes ago 0 replies      
I am so happy for the people of Egypt. This is one for the history books. Our kids will be reading about this revolution as an example of the peaceful power of the people.

I have to congratulate AlJazeera for their tremendous coverage of unfolding events. They have been very professional and fearless in their reporting. Western media should take notes.

Who knows what tomorrow will bring but for now Egypt and the entire world can smile wide and celebrate.

Mazal Tov to the people of Egypt!

13 points by othello 59 minutes ago 0 replies      
And Mubarak's Wikipedia entry is already edited:

Muhammad Hosni Sayyid Mubarak was the President of Egypt from 1981 to 2011. [1]

History unfolding live indeed.

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hosni_Mubarak

20 points by motters 1 hour ago 1 reply      
The difficult part is always what comes after a revolution. Having the military in charge isn't necessarily a good thing, and whether Egypt does get a democratic government will now depend upon how the military behaves.
42 points by michaelty 1 hour ago 2 replies      
Next time, don't take down your country's Internet.
5 points by netmau5 52 minutes ago 1 reply      

This is one of the better images I've seen showing the pure scale of the protests. In the US, we had our "million man march" which questionably had so many people. In Egypt, many millions have been involved over the course of far longer than one day. With relation to their total population, the size of the movement is pretty mind boggling.

9 points by elvirs 1 hour ago 2 replies      
I'm very happy for Egyptian people. People of Egypt deserve a better leader, a better government.
The guy who said 'I am ready to die' yesterday on CNN almost made me cry. Thats the spirit, and that spirit deserved a victory which they finally achieved.
I hope the same happens for other nations that have been held under dictatorship for decades.
1 point by logjam 14 minutes ago 0 replies      
Another example of nonviolent action leading to real political change.

Now if the U.S. government gets on the ball, they will redirect some substantial portion of the Egyptian ~$2 billion military aid and announce we will help build science and technical schools, universities, and hospitals.

Thanks to those of you who have been hosting and continue to host Tor bridges in support of emerging democracies:


18 points by russnewcomer 1 hour ago 2 replies      
Mubarak handing power to the army probably means that the regime lives on, Mubarak's just not in charge of it anymore. Egypt's issues aren't settled now, this is only a step and it remains to be seen if real, true, democratic change is going to happen.
4 points by kilian 1 hour ago 0 replies      
If you can, I urge you to get a look of the live stream at aljazeera: http://english.aljazeera.net/watch_now/ The Tahir square is absolutely euphoric.
10 points by BvS 1 hour ago 1 reply      
Reminds of 1989 here in Germany! Congratulation Egypt!
1 point by jim_h 17 minutes ago 0 replies      
It's indeed been a roller-coaster.

2/10 morning - He's going to step down.

2/10 evening - He's not stepping down.

2/11 morning - He's really stepping down.

Hopefully the rest of the ride will be less bumpy and more pleasant.

2 points by buro9 1 hour ago 1 reply      
There's great live coverage on the BBC at the moment: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12307698

It looks like a carnival erupted at Tahrir Square when word got out. It was pretty vibrant before, but euphoria is clearly evident.

1 point by mynameishere 48 minutes ago 2 replies      
Ok. We'll see what happens.


In the most fundamental matters, President and Mrs Mubarak are incomparably more enlightened than the Egyptian public.

4 points by shareme 1 hour ago 1 reply      
the bad thing is that HM stole $50 billion from the citizens of Egypt..and the USA does nothing and UN does nothing
1 point by philsalesses 20 minutes ago 0 replies      
This is a side question and I'd like to get any/all opinions since I have yet to find a suitable answer to this.

How do I, as an American citizen, minimize cognitive dissonance when the following disparate events occur?

America's stance: democracy and 'freedom' are fundamental rights of all people.


America's actions: refusing to recognize a democratically elected body because the resulting will of the people is openly hostile towards America and Israel (Hamas winning seats in Palestinian elections).

1 point by yalforreca 23 minutes ago 0 replies      
Portugal had a revolution in 1974 that ended an dictatorship of more than 40 years. The Army was fed up with the colonial wars and persuaded by the left-wing illegal parties, took control of the country. Democracy exists in Portugal, but corruption and widespread cleptocracy by a small number of elite families still rule. I hope Egypt avoids that.
1 point by fourspace 43 minutes ago 0 replies      
Whatever outcome may result over time, I'm happy for the people of Egypt. Once again, the desire to be free eventually overwhelms the arbitrary tyranny of a dictator.

It will certainly be interesting to see if this leads to a domino effect in the Middle East and how it affects US foreign policy.

1 point by arepb 55 minutes ago 0 replies      
The live stream is just incredible to watch. Just inspiring to hear these cheers http://english.aljazeera.net/watch_now/
1 point by xbryanx 1 hour ago 0 replies      
When do we get to see who is really in power now? It's hilarious to me that all the pictures of the 1-10 powers in Egypt are grainy screengrabs from old TV programs.
-4 points by alain94040 1 hour ago 3 replies      
Flagged per the guidelines: if it's on TV, it doesn't belong here :-)
I don't understand the 9-to-5 phpdeveloper.org
17 points by tswicegood 1 hour ago   5 comments top 4
5 points by neutronicus 15 minutes ago 0 replies      

If I program 9-5, go home, eat, program more, program some more, and then go to sleep, I get fat. Fast. My social anxiety mounts. Fast.

I need at least 1-1.5 hours a day of gym time, .5-1 hours cooking time, some social time squeezed in there somewhere. I do have side projects - but I don't have kids, and I don't have another hobby - what if I enjoyed woodworking, painting, writing, or music? Devote a decent amount of time to that, to your health, and to a 9-5 job, and squeezing a meaningful programming project in there starts to get difficult.

4 points by larrykubin 14 minutes ago 1 reply      
The article says he doesn't understand how someone can code at their job, then not code when they go home.

Here's how: even if you are very excited about programming, you can realize that there are other things in the world besides being a workaholic perfectionist who stares at a computer screen 16 hours a day. Things like spending time with your significant other, enjoying nature, exercising, concerts, volunteering, etc. I love coding and trying to improve, but have you ever just got tired of looking at a computer screen?

3 points by gaustin 19 minutes ago 0 replies      
The article talks about two types of programmers. The passionate type and the type that programs because it's a way to make money to fund life outside of work. Then it points out that many of the latter type write poor code.

I've found that if you engage your non-passionate co-workers and try to educate and inspire, you can really help them improve their skills. Nobody wants to be bad at what they do. A guiding hand can do wonders.

It makes their life better and it makes your life better.

1 point by rickmode 30 minutes ago 0 replies      

It's really that simple. We live in cities and work in groups and/or at companies because the benefits of collaboration and casual exchanges of ideas outweigh the detractions.

Rietveld - code review Google style google.com
34 points by btilly 2 hours ago   8 comments top 4
2 points by sp_ 13 minutes ago 0 replies      
Back in November 2009 I was on vacation in San Francisco and decided to drop by the Google campus in Mountain View to visit some friends.

Of all the things they showed me there, Mondrian (of which Rietveld is a fork of) impressed me the most. More so than dinosaur skeletons, space ships, 3D Google Earth terminals, or free amazing meals.

I was working in a startup at the time and we did not do code review at all. After seeing the Google workflow and having their build processes explained to me in detail, I was trying to set up code review before commits at the startup too. I hoped to improve code quality with this. Unfortunately the tools we tried were terrible and so it never took off.

To this day, not getting the necessary processes in place remains one of the biggest regrets of working there. Now I work at another place where we don't do that either. Too bad.

6 points by coffeejunk 1 hour ago 2 replies      
have a look at gerrit[1] if you are a git user. it's a complete rewrite of rietveld (in java) and tied closely to git which is because the main contributor is Shawn Pearce (who is also main contributor to git[2]).

[1]: http://code.google.com/p/gerrit/
[2]: http://git-scm.com/about

2 points by jojopotato 1 hour ago 1 reply      
Doesn't bugzilla (although ugly) handle the same workflow that he is describing? We have svndiff linked in for the side by side diffs, but that is the only thing missing.
2 points by ghempton 1 hour ago 1 reply      
Anyone know why google is so committed to perforce?
MPEG LA Announces Call for Patents Essential to VP8 Video Codec mpegla.com
40 points by ZeroGravitas 3 hours ago   26 comments top 5
10 points by nika 1 hour ago 5 replies      
I've never understood the objection to MPEGLA.

I'm neutral on patents* but this is probably the best environment for patents in the entire world. MPEGLA is a licensing agency, so there are no personal or political issues. They make money by increasing the number of licensees. Those who submit patents to them ofload a lot of work that they otherwise would have to engage in for marketing the patents.

Finally the patent pools allow for standards to be created and propagated under fair terms. Fierce competitors like Microsoft and Apple can participate together and have an incentive to contribute patents to the pool.

And as was otherwise mentioned the existence of the pool mitigates risk that there might be a patent you don't know about.

Everybody who participates in the pool wins, and the pool is a much more efficient mechanism of licensing patents than doing it one by one in an environment of uncertainty, or doing it at the end of a long litigation that you have lost and are thus pushed over the barrel.

Further, I don't understand why the risk of patents for VP8 is called FUD. I'm certain a good chunk of the patents in the current MPEGLA pool cover VP8 because of the nature of patents (they have to be broadly written) the nature of our patent system (things have to be patented, because even if you invented it, someone else can patent it if you don't) and the nature of video encoding (you're essentially forced by the nature of video and the desire to compress to recognize features of images that exist in multiple frames and then encode based on them, this is an essential component of MPEG-4 video & h.264, and unless a fundamental patent for this has expired, and all derivative improvements have also expired, which I doubt, h.264 patents are going to cover VP8 encoding, unless VP8 somehow does not use any feature extraction.)

Thus, MPEGLA will have a pool that people can go to license the VP8 patents. If google wants to contribute their patents (assuming they have some) to the pool then they will get licensing compensation. If they don't then that doesn't change the fact that MPEGLA is legitimately protecting the rights of the patent holders for patents that VP8 infringes on.

That VP8 infringes on patents is pretty much a sure thing-- unless I'm fundamentally misunderstanding how VP8 works, and even still, there are patents on many other aspects of video and video containers.

Don't be mad at the patent holders for protecting their work- they published it for everyone to benefit from in exchange.


* If you've got a better idea for how intellectual property should be protected or not, then, please start a political movement. Don't go after people following he laws as they are. Given the existence of the system, companies must patent and defend their patents. And given that this is the state of the legal framework in the country, suing people for patent violation is perfectly legitimate. The patent is a trade- you reveal your solution in exchange for legal protection. If you cannot sue, then you are not getting the compensation you are promised in this system for revealing your invention. If you wish to go to a system whereby there is no patent system, then recognize that people wouldn't be revealing their inventions, and thus things like android couldn't exist, because they wouldn't have a source of technology to copy.

11 points by xal 2 hours ago 0 replies      
Good. This will hopefully force the matter and get all the patent claims out in the open. I doubt that actual holders of patents will play their cards close to their chests here because the upside of the cut of the bundle license for their patents through MPEG LA will be so large.

While I wish you couldn't patent software or algorithms we cannot ignore the fact that you can by simply willful ignorance and wishing that the patents go away if we just not think about them.

At the end of this process the thread from submarine patens will be vastly reduced and hardware manufacturers and companies like MS and Apple have a realistic road to supporting VP8.

6 points by rmc 2 hours ago 1 reply      
This is great. It will limit FUD. MPEGLA have called, and people need to show their cards. If we hear nothing, then that shows that the MPEGLA doesn't know of any patents that affect WebM/VP8, and they can stop all this "don't use VP8 cause of patents!" FUD.

If however there are patents on WebM/VP8, we can get them out in the open and look at them and then see.

3 points by kalak451 2 hours ago 2 replies      
So is this being driven by people working on the VP8 codec or the WebM project? Or is MPEG LA just trying to show that VP8 really is just a patent encumbered at h.264(and protect/add to their revenue stream?)
-2 points by nuclear_eclipse 2 hours ago 1 reply      
And now the true FUD campaign begins...
World's first programmable nanoprocessor harvard.edu
13 points by potomak 1 hour ago   2 comments top 2
1 point by Groxx 42 minutes ago 0 replies      
>"This work represents a quantum jump forward in the complexity and function of circuits built from the bottom up, and thus demonstrates that this bottom-up paradigm, which is distinct from the way commercial circuits are built today, can yield nanoprocessors and other integrated systems of the future,”

Define "bottom up", please. I highly doubt that chip manufacturers haven't been trying extremely hard to make smaller chips, so I'm forced to assume they mean something else. In the meantime, of course chip manufacturers are focusing on increasing macro-complexity, because that's where the major speed increases have been for quite a while (SSE, predictive branching, hyperthreading, multi-processor, etc)

1 point by RiderOfGiraffes 59 minutes ago 0 replies      
Android Lighthouse: Android Qt Port google.com
44 points by nl 4 hours ago   16 comments top 4
1 point by protomyth 1 hour ago 1 reply      
I am a little unclear on something about Qt. I though there was a clause in its licensing that made it BSD if TrollTech was acquired. Since that didn't actually happen, what is the future for Qt when Nokia cans it.
2 points by stcredzero 2 hours ago 1 reply      
I've noticed there are a lot of ports from C/C++ to Java of late. Are there some sophisticated tools floating out there for syntactic transformations from C/C++ -> Java? Or is this all due to the gravitational pull of the JVM/Android?
2 points by limmeau 3 hours ago 1 reply      
Interesting. Apparently, this project on puts self-contained full-screen Qt apps onto Android machines via NDK [1].
However, I find nothing about Android integration on the level of Intents and Activities, not even whether that's planned.

1. http://code.google.com/p/android-lighthouse/wiki/QADK

1 point by kjhghjkjh 2 hours ago 4 replies      
Doesn't matter - Nokia will cancel Qt in the next round of budgets.

The real question is how screwed are C++ developers in general?

MSFT's offering is switch to managed C++/C++ CLR and use WPF - two doomed technologies together. Or there is always MFC

Apple say don't even try with C++ just switch to objective C

Your only choice is GTK (from C) and plug into the rich commercial opportunities of Gnome and Linux on the desktop.

So is C++ on the desktop dead?

Nokia to developers: no Qt for Windows Phone development engadget.com
97 points by tomh- 7 hours ago   54 comments top 9
17 points by CrLf 6 hours ago 2 replies      
Well, this shows just how good are these buyouts by big corporations:

  1. create great product
2. get people on board
3. success
4. get bought by BigCo
5. ???
6. get crushed when BigCo focuses on something else

5 points by forgotAgain 4 hours ago 1 reply      
Learning moment: developers can't be wedded to a particular technology. Qt is fantastic but it's not the business. We can't invest ourselves in companies that are floundering and Nokia has been floundering for a number of years.

If you find yourself investing your talents in a company that has multiple directional changes you need to consider the likelihood that the company will ever return to good times.

8 points by nl 4 hours ago 0 replies      
12 points by hasenj 6 hours ago 1 reply      
I just hope Qt doesn't die.
4 points by dchest 6 hours ago 0 replies      
Related discussion, 111 days ago: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1820320
5 points by tomh- 7 hours ago replies      
So, what will happen?

1) Qt c++ devs will invest in Visual Studio and learn silverlight/XNA


2) Qt c++ devs simply switch to c++ development for iOS + Android

4 points by leon_ 4 hours ago 0 replies      
No native code on WP7 is for me a major downturn. To port my apps to WP7 I'd have to do a complete rewrite - and that's work I won't do for an unproven market/platform.
7 points by drink 5 hours ago 1 reply      
Isn't Qt covered under GPL? Could someone else run with it for their development platform? Or would there be patent problems etc?
2 points by djhworld 4 hours ago 2 replies      
Why didn't they choose Android?
Offshoring: does it ever work? stackoverflow.com
46 points by Unosolo 5 hours ago   36 comments top 21
22 points by raganwald 2 hours ago 2 replies      
Blatant plug: What you want is near-shoring. Canadian development shops and remote Canadian developers are like "Mexicans with sweaters." Lower cost-of-living, we have our family's health care taken care of while we work on your start-up, and our subsidized universities churn out a steady stream of new grads.

Add in the fact that we speak English (even if our spelling has idiosyncrasies like "cheque," "colour," and "centre"), the ease of flying back and forth, and the fact that we work in the same bloody time zone...

And one more thing: Major Canadian cities like Toronto and Vancouver are an incredible melting pot of cultures, so you can find people who speak English and French, Hindi, Mandarin, Cantonese, Greek, Spanish, or whatever else you may need as you build out your Global empire.

If you must go remote or outsource, I suggest looking North of the 49th before you look in South-East Asia.

1 point by statictype 8 minutes ago 0 replies      
It does work. More than you think.

The companies that are successful in outsourcing are not looking to get high quality software done cheap. They're looking for someone to take the burden of the whole process of developing software from the ground up from their basic (but vast and hairy) requirements.

This means, having a system in place to make sure every requirement that was specified was tracked and accounted for from some functional specification document right through the final UI pages and test cases.
It means having a system in place so that when QA discovers that requirement 4.3.1 doesn't have any test cases specified, they know exactly who was in charge of that and how it slipped through.

Boring and insipid? Yes. That's exactly why they're successful.

The successful outsourcing companies excel at this type of thing. That's why it's important that they get ISO certified and CMM Level-whatever.
Those achievements are not there to fool customers into thinking it will result in better software. It's there to tell the customer that we have a process and mechanism in place for dealing with your complex requirements.

All the offshoring failures come from doing a quick calculation of your developer's time vs the time of a developer in India and then thinking you're saving money by offloading the work.

11 points by wccrawford 4 hours ago 1 reply      
Yes. If you know what you want, can explain it simply, and it can be done simply and repeatedly, offshoring works quite well. It's far cheaper than doing it in-house.

However, if you miss any of the above, it's going to be a nightmare. The 'repeatedly' part is the key to making it cheap. 1-off solutions are cheaper in-house because of all the design work. Things that can be done repeatedly (like webscraping different sites) can be off-shored with great success, especially if you do the first couple in-house and create a good framework, and then just ask the offshore-company to repeat your success with like tasks.

10 points by synnik 4 hours ago 0 replies      
It works very well if you establish a true partnership.

Our local employees do the design, strategy, and thought leadership. An on-site team from our partner sit face-to-face with us to be sure we have mutual understandings and good communication. The offshore teams do a variety of work, from coding, to system administration, to basic tech support.

I would not try to offshore just one project, or just one task. It took a couple years to smooth out how we work together... in the end, it works well for us.

7 points by zuppy 2 hours ago 0 replies      
Well, I can speak about the problems from the other side of the fence :)

Someone said on this thread that offshore works only when you give a very detailed specification of the project.

The biggest problem problem I'm facing every day is not having a way to get answers to my questions. There are many layers of intermediaries that filter out information and delay the answers. I do have to deliver the project and I can't always wait days or weeks every time I have a question. Most of the times I have to assume that you want a certain solution and implement it my way. Unfortunately, it's not always the desired one.

I can give you an example: someone wanted a payment system implemented but they missed giving me the library used by the payment processor. I had to wait few days to be able to get the library from them, only to find out that they gave me the wrong one (32bit instead of 64 bit)... and so on. There are many many little things like this that take time and could have been solved very easily through a phone call (or even an e-mail).

I'm not a junior, a have 10 years of experience (not all of the working offshore) and I can do your job pretty well... I know how to do it, but I have to know what you want. That's a part of the reason why you sometimes have to give very detailed specifications, not because of me but because of the people between you and me that don't do their job.

Not all companies do this though, some of them get it right. Daily scrums with everybody involved speaking on the phone help a lot. Giving me a way to talk directly to a competent person, also helps. Sometimes a simple yes/no answer makes a huge difference. When we start a new big project it helps to work on the same office, even for a few days. Don't be cheap, it may be cheaper to work with me but it's not that cheap, remember that I can very easily move to a different company or even country (and I'm not talking about the salary, but about everything else).

2 points by GavinB 1 hour ago 0 replies      
The question asks "Do mediocre programmers EVER create good software?"

The answer to that is no, but it really has nothing to do with offshoring. If you're going to go outside of the country to find cheaper talent, you should be looking for talent--just cheaper.

I've had brilliant results with a firm with developers Poland. It's not as cheap per man-hour as, say, India, but the results are great. I'm sure it's just a matter of some firms being better than others.

The keys as far as I can tell:
- Developers should be managed by other developers.
- You need frequent communication. Webex, IM, a ticketing system, and e-mail all have a place.
- You have to have good people. This is the hard part in any country. You need to look for quality developers who happen to be cheaper due to their location.

2 points by marquis 36 minutes ago 0 replies      
I've had extremely good experience 'offshoring', but I have one criteria: we meet in person and I spend time with them in their own environment so I understand what challenges are to be faced.

Also, it has to be said: constant communication. It won't work without constant communication, preferably in real-time (email is good for specs and bugs but IM/voice is the only way to make sure you are on the same page). I wouldn't recommend offshoring if saving money is your primary goal - good, long-term work comes from being invested in the project financially.

Additionally it helps that we consider ourselves friends. We get on, to the level of being able to go out for a drink with each other and keep updated about our personal lives. Even just asking about the local weather is an important indicator that you recognize each other as people. I met with the people I wanted to work with and established strong relationships over time. I continue to work with them as we're all invested and familiar with the tech at hand.

8 points by dansingerman 3 hours ago 0 replies      
Wow, I posted that question on SO two years ago. Didn't expect to see it near the top of HN.

FWIW I still think effective offshoring is really hard.

6 points by vgurgov 3 hours ago 1 reply      
(much lower day rate)

IMHO This is a key wrong assumption here. After many yrs in this business i am still surprised how many ppl fail to realize this simple fact. Project is doomed when they hire Indian Developers for $5/hour

Good developers charge premium anywhere! Local market of talents! Great developers are always busy and if you are happy to find someone cheap and available right now you are under serious risk. Of course there is cost of living factor but its not x5-x10 times savings! In fact cost of living in some parts of US is already lower than somewhere in Europe.

So lack of talent and high demand in one place will always continue to drive outsourcing to other places (both off- and inside US). Yes, it works

3 points by nika 4 hours ago 0 replies      
I can't speak from experience, but my perspective is that offshoring works great when what you're offshoring is the building of machine tools, toys, furniture, computer components and even whole computers, cars, etc.

I'm sure apple, for instance, spends a lot of time making sure that foxconn builds the iPhone right. But Apple is not offshoring the software or the design of the iPhone.

For whatever reason, software development is a competitive advantage that the US has.... for the time being.

I've worked with people from india, pakistan, and former soviet block countries as programmers. They can be great programmers, but the best results seem to be when they come here and work with american teams.

Which is why we need to get visa reform and let american businesses hire the people they need.

I think that the offshoring of this work is driven more by not being able to import sufficient engineers than by anything else.

1 point by cagenut 1 hour ago 0 replies      
offshoring has worked wonderfully for my employer, details in an older comment: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1879786

like literally everything else, the trick is doing it right

10 points by nihar 4 hours ago 2 replies      
As someone who managed off-shore projects, I think this model can be made to work only if the coding part is offshore. The design part would have to be done on-shore in a majority of cases. The problem with outsourcing design is that you may not have people who understand the business or the dynamics of the environment they are designing for.
2 points by ohashi 3 hours ago 0 replies      
From my personal experience, hard as hell (read: failed). Though companies can successfully do it, absolutely. I met one company that was 1 block away that had really impressive operations. They were supposed to be the offshore branch for a European company but the European company essentially disappeared and they were running the entire thing offshore with a couple marketing staff left in Europe. All the knowledge and experience ended up transferring entirely to the offshore operation. A few of the top managers moved over and they are recognized as one of the top companies in their industry. I wish I had more time there to learn what they did and how they managed it, sadly, I didn't.
1 point by tgriesser 2 hours ago 1 reply      
The only way it can work is if the person managing the source of work knows exactly what they're looking for. If the project manager can read and recognize what a well coded project looks like, then the model can work. But often the only thing that matters (especially to the type who would immediately want to outsource) is the end result.

A friend of mine tried outsourcing an e-commerce site to somewhere in India from freelance.com or one of those sites to save a little time and money for a project he said he could do for someone. He had absolutely no programming experience and didn't believe my "you get what you pay for" type attitude. A week or two and a few hundred dollars later he was all excited about how he was able to "manage" the developer and get everything done. Within a week the site was offline, completely destroyed by a script hacker exploiting some weakness in an out of date version of osCommerce. I think he just had to learn that lesson for himself though.

2 points by davidedicillo 3 hours ago 0 replies      
More than offshoring (as outsourcing) I think I would be smarter to hire remotely. At that point doesn't really matter where you hire as long as you hire smart people who you'd hire even if they were local. In this way you can get top developers at a lower rate.
5 points by palewery 3 hours ago 0 replies      
If your perception of offshoring is "lets hire developers in country X and save 40% because developers make 40% less there." Then the answer is NO. Even if you can find the perfect employees that will do great work for 40% less it is only a matter of time before they will find better paying jobs, and that turnover will kill your 40% savings.
2 points by iuguy 3 hours ago 0 replies      
The success of offshoring depends on your definition of success and your reasons for doing it in the first place.

If you're looking to get more done for close to the same amount of cash then you're more likely to succeed than someone who wants to reduce costs as much as possible. There's no trick to getting it right, but it's really easy to slip up and get it wrong.

1 point by hkarthik 43 minutes ago 0 replies      
You should only offshore a mature product that's past its prime and just needs maintenance programmers to keep it alive and prevent it from blowing up. Any code changes will be bug fixes only and you won't be enhancing this product much.

For such products, the controls to keep bad code from getting release should have been put in place long before the teams were offshored.

When you're building a startup, your product won't resemble a product that is ready for offshoring. You'll be constantly iterating, rebuilding deployment infrastructure, and will need to respond quickly in case of catastrophic failure.

2 points by toddh 1 hour ago 0 replies      
My experience is it can work well if you give complete responsibility over to the remote group, regardless of location, it doesn't matter if they are a building away or 8 time zones away.
3 points by maheshs 4 hours ago 1 reply      
Its depend; sometime it works and sometime it won't.
In 2009-2010 India has done somewhere around $75 billion business with 18% growth and these numbers say it works for some people.

There are certain downsize of offshore development like communication, cultural differences etc.

1 point by yters 1 hour ago 0 replies      
I just used vworker on a project. Wasn't absolutely perfect, but was pretty good value for money. I'm happy with the result, and now I have an ongoing relationship with the developer.
The $242 Million Software Error ieee.org
20 points by ptrckryn 2 hours ago   7 comments top 5
2 points by edw519 57 minutes ago 1 reply      
There are no software errors, only programmer errors. The computer did exactly what it was told to do.

[Generated by HNCommentGenerator Vers. 2.04 2011-02-11 17:01:44 GMT]

6 points by iwwr 2 hours ago 0 replies      
Whereas, if the 'risk model' had failed for any other reason, there'd have been no consequences. What's to say their model was correct even on paper? Funnily, nobody would have said anything if the mistake had made money. So, caveat emptor!
3 points by simonw 31 minutes ago 0 replies      
I wonder if it was a formula in an Excel spreadsheet.
2 points by machrider 2 hours ago 0 replies      
Speaking of software errors, that link redirects me to the mobile site home (not the article page), so I guess I won't read this story.
1 point by smithbits 1 hour ago 0 replies      
"... an independent consultant with expertise in quantitative investment techniques who will review disclosures and enhance the role of compliance personnel."

I assume this is press-release-based and so pretty thin on actual information, but if someone told me they had a $242 million software error and the plan for the future was to "review disclosures" I would not be reassured.

Paul Irish on HTML5 Boilerplate ontwik.com
61 points by ahmicro 6 hours ago   4 comments top 2
9 points by po 5 hours ago 1 reply      
I've used Paul Irish's boilerplate and I can attest that even if you decide not to adopt it outright, you can learn a lot just by reading through it.

HTML5 is one of those ever-changing technologies where what was once considered common-practice is now considered deprecated. I think this is often the case with a fast-moving, widely distributed technology. Paul does a great job of collecting a lot of wisdom and maintains it in an easy to understand format. It also does backwards compatibility right. Helped me out a lot.

Edit: Also he's a really nice guy. :-)

3 points by scotth 4 hours ago 0 replies      
It's rare to see such a funny tech presenter. Nice job!
How does Etsy manage development and operations? quora.com
13 points by dclaysmith 2 hours ago   discuss
Nokia Confirms Microsoft Partnership, New Leadership Team techcrunch.com
159 points by andre3k1 10 hours ago   164 comments top 38
56 points by tc 9 hours ago replies      
Well, I suppose you don't always do the smartest thing when you're standing on a burning platform.
63 points by msbarnett 10 hours ago 1 reply      
Ah yes, the old Palm strategy. Once you've let your internal OS completely stagnate, ship Windows Mobile on your phones.
16 points by raganwald 6 hours ago 0 replies      
It's like taking the two guys who finished second and third in a 100-yard dash and tying their legs together and asking for a rematch, believing that now they'll run faster.


23 points by eftpotrm 9 hours ago 0 replies      
They're mad.

Firstly, tying one company struggling to keep afloat to another struggling to take off (in this domain at least) is hardly the obvious ideal strategy.

Secondly, they're about to go onto what, their fourth platform strategy without large-scale wider support? And they expect to retain developer support and internal morale?

Thirdly, coming so soon after the news that Dalvik's porting to their previous preferred platform looked to enable broad compatibility with one of the major software bases to their platform, what's the point in this - they're moving to largely unsupported platform that's less compatible with alternatives than where they were.

This feels like the move of a new top dog who doesn't fully understand the situation but wants to be seen to be doing something, and so has called his old friends. Bad, bad, bad idea.

20 points by mbreese 8 hours ago 1 reply      
Is it funny that I now think that HP buying Palm was the best business moves made last year?

I one fell swoop HP got exclusive rights to a legit smartphone platform where they wouldn't be beholden to any other company. No longer would HP be reliant on Microsoft in mobile.

Now, Nokia is going the opposite direction. Sure, Nokia has some important assets to leverage in this partnership. But make no mistake, this is a deal with the devil.

I wonder what this means for Qt?

51 points by thought_alarm 9 hours ago 2 replies      
Take a moment to think about how low the morale at Nokia is right now.
15 points by zmmmmm 8 hours ago 3 replies      
> "There are other mobile ecosystems. We will disrupt them. There will be challenges. We will overcome them. Success requires speed. We will be swift. Together, we see the opportunity, and we have the will, the resources and the drive to succeed."

This is my main problem with this deal: both parties are hoping that by combining they will achieve something totally uncharacteristic of both of them individually. Neither MS or Nokia have been fast at anything for the last 10 years. Are they really going to suddenly be nimble together?

(I guess I'm just spelling out the "two drowning people tied together" analogy).

13 points by davidw 10 hours ago 2 replies      
Well... you could see that coming, I suppose.

If Nokia doesn't get a chapter in future updates to "X years of high tech marketing disasters", I'll be disappointed. Jumping onto a sinking platform from a burning one isn't a big improvement.

With Android, they would have had a lot more freedom and, most likely, some more leverage in terms of innovating and differentiating themselves.

13 points by forgottenpaswrd 9 hours ago 3 replies      
Bye bye maemo ,meego and qt.

You could see that coming from a CEO that comes from MS, Nokia is desperate to not lose their phone position and MS desperate to losing the new desktop as all paradigms sift, losing OS control and people using Office(there was a time everybody used Wordperfect, people started using word as it was ready for windows before Wordperfect).

MS could design phones this way to compete with Apple, and Nokia could use the MS experience in OS.

I don't think is a good idea to partner with MS, companies that do tend to be screwed sooner or later, MS always winning.

Nokia reminds me more and more of SGI,I remember when MS windows NT was their salvation, I wish I'm wrong.

3 points by jeswin 5 hours ago 1 reply      
Windows Phone 7 is a solid result for a first iteration product; although I see a lot of negative sentiment here (not sure how many have used it). It is missing some features but I am pretty sure they are being worked upon right now (considering the platform is so critical for Microsoft).

Here is what it has going for it:

1. Ease of development - Writing WP7 apps with Visual Studio is very easy; probably easier than any other platform.

2. Games! - The most downloaded apps have always been games. WP7 is a solid platform to write games and MS will _eventually_ bring in their considerable clout in XBox/PC.

3. "Enterprise" Apps - are still unexplored territory. WP7 is the first platform where the countless in-house Windows teams can put out something in languages they already know.

And finally the Nokia deal is a breakthrough for MS. Outside the US, Nokia has an exceptional market presence. Around where I live (Bangalore), there are 3 Nokia exclusive shops and all of them are going to showcase their new WP7 phones soon. With a good enough product, you can make up for everything else with marketing.

As for Nokia, they now will a product I might consider buying at some point.

2 points by nika 5 hours ago 1 reply      
If I were CEO of Nokia, here's what I'd do. I'd go to Apple and license iOS. Now is the perfect time, and Nokia missed a critical opportunity by not doing so.

I know, "apple doesn't license their OS dummy!". But think about this:

1. Android is selling more phones right now.

2. Apple is unable to manufacture enough phones, and has admitted in conference calls that they have lost sales for this reason.

3. Nokia going to MSFT (with an ex-MFST exec as their CEO) is an obvious move... Apple was surely aware of this alternative, and killing Phone 7 in the crib is in Apple's interest. So, "keep your enemy closer", in a sense.

4. The terms would be sufficient for Apple. (EG: Apple wants platform dominance, and profit on its hardware, not exclusivity.)

5. Nokia probably could have gotten an exclusive for 4-5 years, so that the only suppliers of iPhones would be Apple and Nokia for that period. This benefits both- less distraction for Apple, and Nokia doesn't have to worry about being commoditized like they do with MSFT, which would never grant such an exclusivity period.

Why wouldn't Apple agree to this? Here's the objections, and why I think they don't apply:

1. Apple wants control over their OS. Well, this they would get. Apple would dictate to nokia the specs of the hardware, nokia would build it. They would have to cooperate on addtional features (like a second screen that noikia might want to ad, or whatever.) Apple would still be in the drivers seat for the OS like Microsoft is here.

2. Apple wants all the money. This isn't really true. Steve Jobs offered to license Mac OS X to the One Laptop Per Child project for free. Apple would do financial terms with Nokia, probably competitive to MSFT. Apple wants the platform dominance and the consequent %30 of appstore sales more than they want to make $300 on every phone sold. (We'll see this from apple soon with a "feature iphone")

3. Apple doesn't want Nokia taking away sales of iPhones. There might be some risk of this, but nokia can't compete with iphones now hardware wise, and apple's more interested in platform dominance than squeezing every penny out of the phone market. Most nokia phones right now are sold to people who chose them over the iphone for various reasons, probably having to do with not having any taste, or more seriously, nokias distribution and manufacturing capacity.

So long as the iPhone isn't threatened, and it wouldn't be by nokia, and the OS is respected, Apple would be happy to have another major manufacturer increasing iPhone market share.

In Apple's DNA are two drives:

1. To never again be in a situation where someone can cut off their air supply like Microsoft did.

2. To always produce a high quality product.

3. There is no three.

Apple doesn't care about being the most profitable, or having absolute control Everything apple does is really related to 1 & 2. People often like to attribute other drives to Apple because it serves their interests to do so, but if you listen to what Apple's executives say and look at how the act, these are the two drives.

Apple licensing iOS to nokia under terms similar to the MSFT deal supports both of these drives and doesn't undermine either. (if Nokia started cutting off apple's air supply, Apple would simply not renew the agreement.)

I believe the reason this deal happened with Microsoft is that Elop is an ex-MSFTie. In my experience, people who spend large parts of their career at MSFT start seeing things completely in terms of MSFT's dominance, and I suspect this still happens even though MSFT is no longer dominant.

The Nokia board screwed the pooch, as they say.

7 points by mhw 6 hours ago 0 replies      
I'm trying to work out which of Wikipedia's list of cognitive biases (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cognitive_biases) best describes a CEO abandoning the majority of his company's intellectual property in favour of a partnership with his ex-employer.
7 points by tankenmate 8 hours ago 0 replies      
Nokia signs a suicide pact with Microsoft? Desperate times lead to desperate measures, but I don't think Nokia jumped from the platform here, instead they have decided to huddle in a corner with MS. This will be the death of both. I am resigning my Nokia Ambassadorship as I type. Of all the players it could team up with this is probably the worst. MS like to control the platform, but they do a very poor job of it (unlike Apple). Nokia would have been far better off by making a deeper commitment with Intel. It is a sad day, the end of an age.
8 points by borism 8 hours ago 2 replies      
is it not a slight conflict of interest when former MSFT exec who just became NOK CEO makes a strategic partnership with his former company?
6 points by rue 8 hours ago 1 reply      
I can't help but feel this was all arranged, with or without the full knowledge of the Nokia board, when Elop moved over.

It's a little sad for me, personally. I can't say with confidence that this isn't a good move for Nokia among the general populace but I've, finally, given up on them.

Goodbye. We'll always have the 2110 and the summer of 1994!

16 points by Yaggo 9 hours ago 0 replies      
A sinking ship and burning platform, what could possibly go wrong?
1 point by Keyframe 1 hour ago 0 replies      
I was recently hunting for a new phone. I have a plan with my mobile company where I get a new phone (any that I want) for approx. $1.99.. I needed a new phone right away since I accidentally dropped my old phone and it broke, and it was just a right time to get a new one for $1.99...

Anyway, there was a waiting period for iPhone 4 and HTC Desire HD (obviously they're popular), and I needed phone right now and I saw a Samsung Omnia 7.. and thought what the hell, just give me the phone - I only use it for talking (a lot) and occasional sms and email...

I am really surprised how WP7 is good - it lacks polish, little details, thought lots of them, but it's pretty much all there.. if they focus on those details and pimp up a marketplace a bit and let more countries in, I'm very optimistic about it.

4 points by yatsyk 9 hours ago 0 replies      
Not so smart move for Nokia, but this move could be good for WP7.
With Nokia MS could get some market share. But for Nokia it's dumb. They are betting on not so feature rich platform with very small market share, with small (comparing to competitors) number of third party applications. And what it worst this is closed platform controlled by other company.

Why not fork Android?

4 points by dagw 9 hours ago 3 replies      
Has partnering with Microsoft ever worked out well for a failing tech company? I can think of a few examples where it has failed spectacularly.
5 points by rbanffy 7 hours ago 0 replies      
So... Anyone wants to bet that Elop will be back to Microsoft (or something Microsoft controls) in less than five years?
6 points by koski 9 hours ago 0 replies      
I hope Nokia and Microsoft are not joining forces like two drowning men, each trying to use the other for support.

I was hoping to see an Android phone made by Nokia.

2 points by Stormbringer 4 hours ago 0 replies      
From the article:

"To support the planned new partnership with Microsoft, Smart Devices will be responsible for creating a winning Windows Phone portfolio."

Ahh... did that Elop guy forget which team he was batting for? Does Balmer still sign his pay-cheques?

If I was a Nokia person and got told that now whether Windows Phone was successful or not was my fault, I'd show them where they could put their phones....

Are they victims of Stockholm Syndrome or what?

7 points by mkramlich 9 hours ago 0 replies      
from burning platform to slowly sinking ship. awesome!
6 points by murrayb 10 hours ago 0 replies      
My prediction FWIW: more lawsuits. This diagram is about to get some more lines- http://infobeautiful2.s3.amazonaws.com/whos_suing_whom.png
8 points by Garbage 9 hours ago 0 replies      
Wouldn't Android a better choice than Windows Phone?
4 points by lucasr 8 hours ago 0 replies      
This is the definitive proof that leaving Nokia back in 2008"when they pretty much killed Maemo"was the best decision I ever made.

They've made two major platform shifts in just a few years. From Maemo to MeeGo and now from MeeGo to Windows Phone. Not something that inspires confidence in the company or attracts talented developers...

4 points by jpalomaki 9 hours ago 0 replies      
Before: At least some kind of vision, build around Qt and multiple platforms
After: A little bit of dying Symbian, some open source development around Meego, some Windows phones in distant future

Guess this won't help in selling those Symbian E7 phones to companies.

I have a feeling that Vanjoki knew what was coming and gave his peeing statement in order to have his opinion on the record.

1 point by ssp 7 hours ago 0 replies      
Maybe Nokia is going to make ARM laptops running Windows 8. A laptop with Windows and seriously great battery life could easily be a hit, especially if they get it out before Apple makes an ARM MacBook.

The existing PC manufacturers are all pwned by Intel, so there is room for someone new. (And probably for a startup trying to become the Dell of WARM, for that matter). Note also that both the WARM announcement and this one are big screw-yous to Intel.

4 points by balakk 9 hours ago 0 replies      
Well, as they say, a quick death is better than a slow, painful death..
1 point by Derbasti 8 hours ago 0 replies      
Nokia still makes most of its money with dumbphones. You know, feature phones that are good at telephony and texting but not much else. Many people still heavily use these, especially in poorer countries. Nokia never really had a widely successful smartphone.

So partnering with Microsoft for smartphones doesn't look like a bad idea to me. They certainly know how to build hardware, even at large scale, and Microsoft will supply the software.

1 point by koski 4 hours ago 0 replies      
Here is a pretty good summary of all of this (And what Nokia is about to do in the near future): http://www.lightreading.com/document.asp?doc_id=204353
2 points by rbanffy 7 hours ago 1 reply      
"As of April 1, Nokia will also boast a new company structure"

I am not sure what to read from that.

2 points by juiceandjuice 10 hours ago 1 reply      
This is kind of a bummer. I was hoping to see an N9 with Meego, and I don't think that's going to happen anymore.
4 points by robbiewhittle 8 hours ago 1 reply      
"Nokia Maps will become core to Microsoft's mapping services"

Does this mean that Bing Maps is getting axed?

1 point by saturdaysaint 8 hours ago 1 reply      
The line in the announcement about pushing these devices into new pricepoints actually gives me some hope for the marriage. IMO, the next phase of the smartphone race will not be about having the hottest high-end smartphone - I think the winner will be the one that can make a smartphone platform pervasive on entry-level phones.

If Nokia and MS get WP7 on every entry level Nokia, they might be able to disrupt the high end players and bring quality to the low end that Chinese competition will haage trouble matching.

1 point by nice1 4 hours ago 0 replies      
poor nokia is going the way of the dodo (and zune, bing, you get the picture)
1 point by eurohacker 9 hours ago 0 replies      
its a right decision - MS needs Nokia and mobile sucess as much as Nokia needs MS soft,

both sides are ready to contribute greatly to increase the tablet market share,

hint - creating and editing Excel files and Word files by mobile phones in the future

1 point by thematt 10 hours ago 2 replies      
This will be interesting in terms of hardware. Windows Phone 7 has some steep system requirements. Will Nokia's existing phones even be able to accommodate it?
Reddit doubles number of programmers techcrunch.com
14 points by manoloe 2 hours ago   1 comment top
-1 point by singer 2 hours ago 0 replies      
Do you mean "is planning to double"? They haven't doubled anything yet.
Reddit is hiring. We're looking for 3 rockstar programmers. reddit.com
41 points by jedberg 2 hours ago   58 comments top 11
22 points by kls 1 hour ago 8 replies      
I may be in the minority here but I think that it is asking a lot of someone to build out a UI just for the prospect of getting hired. I think it borders on exploitation there are a lot of young individuals with wonder-lust that see a name like Reddit and will put in significant hours just for the possibility of maybe getting hired. In their mind that possibility is greatly inflated (after all who would not want to hire them).

Now as a person that hires and specifically hires technical personally and is technical himself, I am sensitive to the fact that it takes a trained eye to spot talent and that their are a lot of posers out there. But in my personal opinion you guys are offloading the task of being good at spotting talent onto the prospective employee which I am not totally in agreement with.

Personally, I would not ask an up front prospect to code anything other than a 10-15 minute exercise (in interview) and if I where to have someone build something, it would be the final 3 prospects, it would be a real business problem, and I would compensate them for their time. I think the practice of competitions for a job borders to close to exploitation for my comfort, further I have seen better talent selection from a skilled interviewer than I ever have from an arbitrary competition.

3 points by grammaton 24 minutes ago 0 replies      
"Well, first off, it's supposed to be fun. If you don't see the joy in either of these puzzles, please don't apply."

Sorry, but there are plenty of 'fun' things and problems I can work on without essentially doing spec work for someone who will then feel perfectly free to ignore it. That is to say, problems where I can be sure I'll see a reward for my work that is meaningful to me, instead of potentially wasting my time.

Also, "rockstar?" Really, reddit? Seriously?

31 points by mindcrime 2 hours ago 1 reply      
I was going to apply, but I'm an agile lean scrum six-sigma CMMI kanban kaizen customer-development ninja pirate samurai, not a rockstar. Sorry. :-(
10 points by wccrawford 1 hour ago 3 replies      
If I spend the time to write a reddit clone, I'm going to launch it as a competitor, not submit it as a resume.
10 points by jgv 2 hours ago 0 replies      
This post has what could possibly be my favorite TLDR.

"TLDR: Yes, it's a long post, but if you'd like to apply for a job at reddit, you'll just have to read it."

8 points by e1ven 2 hours ago 1 reply      
Are you going to release tgrep after the contest is over?
That'd be a very useful tool for lots of jumbo-logs, assuming the timestamp handling is anywhere near generic or customizable.

If not.. Hell, it'd still be useful for Apache logs. Please put it on Github? ;)

33 points by bradfordw 2 hours ago 5 replies      
Of all the places; really? You went with the "rockstar" moniker for hires?
1 point by mcantelon 1 hour ago 1 reply      
>We want you to build a reddit clone entirely in HTML, Javascript, and CSS. It will maintain its state entirely client-side (HTML5 localstorage, cookies, whatever), and it's fine for it to be single-user. In fact, we want to leave as much of this challenge open to interpretation as possible.


>For this challenge, reimplement tgrep.


>Some of you might be thinking, "I can't believe reddit is going to make all these poor applicants slave over a hot emacs for two weeks just for the privilege of being allowed to apply for a dumb old job." Well, first off, it's supposed to be fun. If you don't see the joy in either of these puzzles, please don't apply.

8 points by jonathanjaeger 2 hours ago 1 reply      
I love the idea that you have to clone Reddit BEFORE you're worthy of sending in your resume. Brilliant.
3 points by kgtm 1 hour ago 1 reply      
Perhaps an indication of how much time tgrep currently spends looking in a sample 70GB file would be of interest.
1 point by gaustin 1 hour ago 1 reply      
No separate challenge for the in-between folks, or did I just miss it?
IncPy: Automatic memoization for Python stanford.edu
27 points by unignorant 4 hours ago   5 comments top 2
6 points by phren0logy 2 hours ago 1 reply      
My favorite parts of python are the parts more oriented to functional programming (ie. list comprehensions). As I got more of an appetite for functional programming, I have drifted, because it seems at odds with the direction python is headed (ie. Guido wanting to remove map/reduce).

There have been a few libraries posted here on HN recently about adding functional elements to python, so apparently it's not just me. Maybe it's time for a "functional fork" of python?

3 points by yuvadam 3 hours ago 2 replies      
In this context it's worth noting that writing a memoizing decorator in Python is ridiculously easy:

  class memoized(object):
def __init__(self, func):
self.func = func
self.cache = {}
def __call__(self, *args):
return self.cache[args]
except KeyError:
value = self.func(*args)
self.cache[args] = value
return value

Query optimization in MySQL with Subqueries gergerconsulting.blogspot.com
18 points by serdarbicer 3 hours ago   11 comments top 6
4 points by encoderer 2 hours ago 0 replies      
There's no question that correlated subqueries are piss-poor in MySQL and instead creating derived tables is quicker.

And in most cases it'll be quick enough.

But I have exeprience recently on much larger datasets -- always over a million and often upwards of 10 Million -- and the truth is, 2 queries is better.

I didn't read the SQL closely enough but most cases of subquery (whether in the select, from or where clauses) is to do in 1 query what really takes 2. So assuming that applies here, yeah, if you've got large datasets, doing several simple queries is better than fewer complex queries.

The MySQL query optimizer is just not there. It's not game-day ready the way Oracle and MSSQL is.

1 point by Nycto 21 minutes ago 0 replies      
MySQL supports spatial indexes exactly for circumstances like this:


1 point by TimJYoung 26 minutes ago 0 replies      
Isn't the first query generating a cartesian product ?

select e., u., l.*
from entry e, user u, location l
where e.location in (select l2.from location l2 where (l2.lat between x1 and x2) and (l2.lng between y1 and y2)) and e.user = u.id
order by e.id desc
limit 0,10

Where's the join condition for the Location table in the outer query ? Furthermore, what the heck does this mean:

select l2.from location

It looks like it's missing a column name, or a * wildcard.

I was pretty surprised by the results, though. Even our lowly product ElevateDB can handle optimizing correlated sub-queries like this pretty easily, and effectively treating them just like an inner join. I suspect that the query was specified incorrectly, although I guess it's certainly possible that MySQL is very bad at optimizing correlated sub-queries.

1 point by jswinghammer 3 hours ago 2 replies      
I'm reading the first query and maybe it's just early but why isn't that subquery just a join? It seems to be acting that way.
2 points by chopsueyar 3 hours ago 1 reply      
Getting rid of the 'IN' clause.
-1 point by moe 5 minutes ago 0 replies      
Articles like this make me cry. Use a real database for god's sake (hint: it's free and the logo is an elephant).
Retailers barred from asking for zip code in California credit card purchases ericgoldman.org
10 points by grellas 2 hours ago   9 comments top 3
1 point by jeromec 13 minutes ago 0 replies      
Wait a minute. Does this mean stores are not supposed to ask to see ID like a license to be sure it's your credit card?
1 point by mildweed 1 hour ago 0 replies      
The Song-Beverly Credit Card Act is a California-only animal. Having said that, it is unenforceable in interstate commerce. The only people who need to worry about this for their online stores are retailers with a business presence in California.
1 point by Rariel 2 hours ago 2 replies      
I've always wondered why they asked you for this information. Best Buy has been doing this for years. The article points out that online retailers have access to this a lot of info, but when you shop online you expect it. I actually hate purchasing for William Sonoma online because after I bought a wedding gift they spammed me from here in to 2027.

It's amazing to me how merchants feel entitled to your information and will be so aggressive in their procurement of it.

Landing Page Optimization webinar visualwebsiteoptimizer.com
17 points by paraschopra 3 hours ago   1 comment top
3 points by mise 1 hour ago 0 replies      
I like "Underline hyperlinks, always. Your grandma needs them".

Interesting proposition, although it's not so cool :P

MPAA Snags Google Downloading Torrents, Threatens to Disconnect torrentfreak.com
25 points by tuxychandru 5 hours ago   10 comments top 4
3 points by trotsky 2 hours ago 1 reply      
Does torrent freak publish anything that isn't link bait anymore? Look, we found an example of a generic demand letter crafted for an individual sent to a large company? LOLOMGLOL?
3 points by nika 4 hours ago 2 replies      
Unfortunately with the goons at the department of "homeland" security now disconnecting businesses from "the internet" via control over root DNS servers... this seems kinda possible.

These actions are not constitutional, nor are they legal. And americans are going to have to stand up to their government or before too long it will be businesses like google--which evil as some may see them is law abiding company- forced to bend over for these interests, lest they be put out of business arbitrarily.

3 points by lessthanideal 3 hours ago 1 reply      
I'm surprised about the MPAA's threat with respect to Google's ISP shutting them down. Isn't half the problem with net neutrality that Google is their own ISP and that they have deals to work with other ISPs? If not, why are they in the middle of the proposal to the FCC? I highly doubt you could disconnect Google from the internet worldwide.
2 points by chopsueyar 3 hours ago 1 reply      
442MB for an ipod movie of the Green Hornet?

Also, it seems to reference the .torrent file, not an actual video file.

Free London School of Business and Finance MBA lectures facebook.com
3 points by tortilla 28 minutes ago   discuss
Nokia and Microsoft Announce Plans for Mobile Partnership microsoft.com
73 points by andre3k1 10 hours ago   12 comments top 6
1 point by brudgers 1 hour ago 0 replies      
What Nokia gains is a solid partner in the top end segment of the smartphone market - enterprise. The first casualty of the merger will likely be RIM. Android and iOS will suffer in the enterprise as well because of Microsoft's ability to offer better integration with its enterprise software.

Nokia has already gained several billion dollars in next generation mobile OS R&D, and need no longer worry about the uncertainty of the Java's future. In addition they are able to remove the high barrier to entry presented by C++ in order to attract new third party developers.

6 points by chalst 9 hours ago 2 replies      
There's the Nokia version too: http://press.nokia.com/2011/02/11/nokia-outlines-new-strateg...

From the Nokia announcement, but not MS: Under the new strategy, MeeGo becomes an open-source, mobile operating system project. MeeGo will place increased emphasis on longer-term market exploration of next-generation devices, platforms and user experiences. Nokia still plans to ship a MeeGo-related product later this year.

5 points by limmeau 10 hours ago 2 replies      
I wonder what this means for Qt, given that the Windows Phone of today runs its apps in a CLR/Silverlight sandbox.
2 points by myoldryn 9 hours ago 0 replies      
I still hope, that they will release n9 with meego this year. Nokia with Windows phone os doesn't sound right.

This announcement doesn't really come as surprise. IMO it will be success, if Microsoft opens it os to other frameworks.

edit: As we can see, it comes as a bad news to nokia really. Todays pre-mareket share value have droped already by ~8%.

2 points by ggordan 7 hours ago 0 replies      
It was inevitable. Personally, I was hoping Nokia would go with Android.

I'm not sure how well this partnership is going to work, but it might take a while to get used to the idea of non-Symbian Nokia's.

0 points by Aegean 7 hours ago 0 replies      
haha the losers are partnering up. Nice move. This was visible from many years ago. Starting from details like how microsoft windows annoys you to install updates or creates pop ups and how slow your machine gets after a while. Also take Nokia's mediocre symbian GUI with no developer/hacker perspective whatsoever on their devices.
       cached 11 February 2011 17:59:01 GMT