hacker news with inline top comments    .. more ..    14 Dec 2010 News
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Mixpanel (YC S09) - Merry Christmas, Internet mixpanel.com
52 points by RoboTeddy 1 hour ago   11 comments top 4
5 points by citricsquid 1 hour ago 2 replies      
Seems a strange idea to increase load when current users see "Data processing is delayed while we fix an issue related to our servers." when logging in.

Nice deal though, I got in during the appsumo deal so now I have 600,000 for a criminally low price :-)

8 points by bjonathan 1 hour ago 1 reply      
That seems a good explanation of the lifetime offer on appsumo a couple weeks ago...

Beside that thank you Mixpanel :) !!

1 point by ConceptDog 14 minutes ago 0 replies      
That's cool. I was looking at using MixPanel for some personal projects. This makes it that much easier.
1 point by bobf 1 hour ago 0 replies      
Great service as always from the Mixpanel guys. Thanks!
Beekeeper Who Leaked EPA Documents: "I Don't Think We Can Survive This Winter" fastcompany.com
25 points by zoowar 1 hour ago   4 comments top 2
3 points by Mz 36 minutes ago 1 reply      

Now the stakes are higher than ever. Tom Theobald's honey crop this year is the smallest he's seen in 35 years of beekeeping. "This is the critical winter for the beekeeping industry. I don't think we can survive," he says. "If the beekeeping industry collapses, it jeopardizes a third of American agriculture."

That's because the giant agriculture industry couldn't produce nearly as much with native bee pollinators alone; instead, the industry relies on beekeepers, who rent out their bees to pollinate everything from strawberries and blueberries to squash and cucumbers.

1 point by mey 7 minutes ago 0 replies      
Original article on the story: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2001067
The Hacker's Path github.com
29 points by blhack 1 hour ago   23 comments top 10
1 point by xpaulbettsx 1 minute ago 1 reply      
Disappointed to see "Teh Womenz" on there - is it so inconceivable that someone wanting to be a hacker is a woman? Or not into women?

Obviously the author is tongue-in-cheek, but it's indicative of a wider culture, where hackers are telling women, 'You don't belong.'

3 points by gfodor 21 minutes ago 1 reply      
Meh, I dunno. This list isn't really that great. It's good if your goal is to learn as many programming languages as you can, but it's sorely lacking fundamentals. (Even considering the theory books, which are pretty all over the place.)

My list would definitely include more books around software architecture, system design, algorithms, data structures, and different domains of software like computer graphics, machine learning, databases, embedded systems, simulation/games, audio/video, and so on.

3 points by jpwagner 16 minutes ago 0 replies      
Son: hey dad, can I borrow some money?

Dad: son you're going to have to learn how to be "Gettin' Paid, Makin' Money." here's the best C programming book i know.

Son: thanks dad. how much can i get for it?

Dad: uhhhh...

4 points by kmfrk 29 minutes ago 0 replies      
A great guide. I'd mention some minor things, but I love the brevity of it, and I think squabbling over details would ruin it.
3 points by steveklabnik 38 minutes ago 1 reply      
For emphasis:

> There are guys out there who will argue about different tools/methods in a religious fervor. Pay attention to the people who get things done, break new ground, or get you pumped.

It's so easy to get sucked into endless debates. Do stuff instead.

1 point by keyle 23 minutes ago 1 reply      
"Gettin' Paid, Makin' Money" ... Where is C# and .NET?

I mean if you're after money, that's where it is. I definitely earn a lot more as a WPF/Silveright developer than any PHP gig I've found.

Sorry if I upset some people, I'm not techno-racist. I just go with the flow, and MSFT gave me the lifestyle.

2 points by michaelleland 56 minutes ago 1 reply      
Where do HTML/CSS fall? Are they unimportant or so important that they are considered obvious?
0 points by eddieparker 15 minutes ago 1 reply      
Idiot. Won't let me view it with the browser installed on this system! Disables the back button!
2 points by harlowja 58 minutes ago 1 reply      
Teh Womenz should be higher up, haha.
A pink $16 pocket spectrum analyzer ossmann.blogspot.com
72 points by gourneau 3 hours ago   18 comments top 7
4 points by jules 2 hours ago 2 replies      
What you can do with spectrum analyzers is pretty awesome. In my first year in a lab I built a program that scrapes the NIST spectral database, reads the data from a spectrum analyzer attached to the computer, and figures out which types of atoms the thing the spectrum analyzer is looking at contains. This is harder than it sounds. Essentially you're trying to match tens of thousands of sets of spectral lines of varying strength to a noisy spectrum measurement (something like this but noisier: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/5/5d/Spectra-...).

The problem is that one element, say natrium, has many spectral lines of varying strength. You're trying to find a set of elements that best explains the measured spectrum. If you plotted all spectral lines from all elements on a spectrum, it would be completely black because there are so many. In the end it only worked well for fluorescent tubes, but it could tell you what's in them, even things a human would have a very hard time discovering by looking at the spectrum and manually comparing it to the NIST database (the university has all kinds of weird lamps like natrium lamps, blacklights, and fluorescent tubes in many colors all containing different stuff, and looking at computer monitor pixels is fun too).

My program output an element X who's name I forgot for many of the lamps, but when I plotted its spectral lines over the spectra I couldn't see the match clearly, so I added a parameter to the algorithm so that it would be more restrictive on the number of different elements returned. In the presentations of the lab the prof commented "many of these tubes also contain element X, but you can't see it with the spectrum analyzer you used, you need a higher quality one". Bummer.

3 points by Zaak 2 hours ago 2 replies      
> The frequency ranges supported by my device are 281 - 361, 378 - 481, and 749 - 962 MHz. This is about 50% more than the chip is advertised to support and covers quite a bit of interesting activity in the US including ISM, LMR, television, amateur bands, pagers, and mobile phones.

Do hackers of this device risk running afoul of laws against intercepting mobile phone transmissions?

5 points by JonnieCache 3 hours ago 0 replies      
Someone reversed the USB transceiver dongle too: http://blog.hodgepig.org/2010/10/22/im-me-usb-dongle-hacking...

Of course not forgetting the GPL drivers for the same: http://im-megpldrivers.sourceforge.net/

Also, $16? I paid £0.99 for mine on ebay :)

2 points by J3L2404 1 hour ago 0 replies      
Where's my iPhone spectrometer!!!

But this is a frequency analyzer for finding overtones to determine broadcast frequency at close distance.

2 points by Jun8 1 hour ago 1 reply      
How do you get them so cheap? Amazon lists them for $29.99.
2 points by J3L2404 2 hours ago 1 reply      
Why pink?

EDIT: I didn't see that the keys were alphanumeric and thought that was its intended purpose. I thought maybe they were going for the "science girl" demographic, which would have been cool.

1 point by commieneko 3 hours ago 0 replies      
For some reason this reminds me of ... http://megatokyo.com/strip/1107
(towards the bottom of the page)

Very cool mod, though.

FreeBSD/EC2 lives daemonology.net
192 points by cperciva 6 hours ago   36 comments top 15
8 points by tshtf 5 hours ago 1 reply      
Colin, excellent! BTW, how should we file bugs if/when we find them?
9 points by Ixiaus 6 hours ago 0 replies      
Great work Colin! I'm definitely going to jump on the free usage tier and experiment with it. I've been holding out, entirely, for FreeBSD to come to EC2.
3 points by jonhohle 4 hours ago 0 replies      
I've been looking for a way to move off of Joyent shared (solaris) and onto EC2 with FreeBSD for quite some time. This is awesome news. I honestly didn't know if this day would ever come.
2 points by listic 2 hours ago 1 reply      

Could you explain in layman's terms, where did the difficulties lie in using FreeBSD on EC2? Since I think I heard an announcement that FreeBSD 8 supports Xen domU, though I can't find any information to this effect now and FreeBSD Handbook doesn't mention it either: http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/vi...

2 points by listic 2 hours ago 0 replies      
Should I be able to use FreeBSD on Spot Instances? I'm more interested in this for the future, when larger instance types will be available, but still.

Looks like I can't use any of the Community AMIs on Spot Instances at the moment.

Update: Yes, I can run ami-c01aeca9 on us-east as a Spot Instance! Though any other Community AMI I tried (e.g. Turnkey Linux AMIs) refused to work for me. Any comment on this is still welcome.

5 points by Dobbs 6 hours ago 0 replies      
Thanks so much Colin. I'll probably be switching my play linode over to ec2.
5 points by dazzawazza 6 hours ago 0 replies      
Thanks for this. As a long term FreeBSD user it's great to have more platforms to deploy on.
4 points by comice 5 hours ago 0 replies      
[self-promote]: We at Brightbox have had FreeBSD 8.1+ support for a few weeks now: http://blog.brightbox.co.uk/posts/freebsd-cloud
3 points by pan69 5 hours ago 2 replies      
I hope Linode and Slicehost follow soon. We could use more low cost *BSD virtualization.
2 points by cmer 5 hours ago 2 replies      
What are the benefits of BSD vs Linux? I could never quite understand why people would chose BSD, but that's likely just ignorance.
4 points by eddanger 6 hours ago 1 reply      
I've been waiting for this for years! Amazon EC2 might have just jumped from a being novelty to something useful! (for me at least)
1 point by ifdnrg 2 hours ago 2 replies      
its quick to get a usable instance running, to get a usable ports tree,

csup -L 2 -h cvsup.FreeBSD.org /usr/share/examples/cvsup/ports-supfile

looking forward to seeing stable on here

3 points by sullrich 4 hours ago 0 replies      
This is really great news. Thanks a lot Colin and other FreeBSD devs!
0 points by gonzo 6 hours ago 0 replies      
very, very cool
-4 points by tibbon 5 hours ago 2 replies      
Wait what? I thought that Netcraft has confirmed: *BSD is dying
The Anatomy of a Perfect Landing Page formstack.com
193 points by jaybol 7 hours ago   47 comments top 21
21 points by ccollins 6 hours ago 5 replies      
No, this is the anatomy of a perfect landing page:

  <% ab_test('determine_the_best_page_with_numbers_to_back_you_up', ['page1', 'page2']) do |action_name| %>

render :action => action_name

<% end %>


7 points by paraschopra 5 hours ago 1 reply      
I had written a post long back: Landing Page Optimization tips: analysis of 50+ sites to find out what increases sales and conversions http://visualwebsiteoptimizer.com/split-testing-blog/landing...

You may find it a nice complement for the infographic

9 points by merraksh 7 hours ago 2 replies      
Is the not-so-impeccable title "Impecabble grammar" there on purpose?


2 points by jsackmann 4 hours ago 2 replies      
Does anyone here have first-hand experience testing w/ the VeriSign seal? The parent link gives an example of a very substantial sales increase thanks to the seal. For $299/year, though, it's a bit beyond the range of "eh, what the hell, I'll give it a try."
6 points by AndrewWarner 5 hours ago 1 reply      
Unbounce.com has templates that look like that. So does WooThemes.com
2 points by chunkbot 4 hours ago 1 reply      
My favorite landing page is the one for Buckyballs (http://www.getbuckyballs.com/). Thanks to it, I'm sure they moved a lot of product on the day Google doodled "buckyball".
2 points by fbnt 5 hours ago 0 replies      
While I don't think there isn't a single canonical form for a landing page for the obvious reasons, I really appreciated the color-mood pairs at the end of the article.

I'll keep them in mind the next time I'm choosing the colour scheme for a new site.

Plus, now I can see why Facebook is all blueish.

1 point by zachinglis 1 hour ago 1 reply      
Apparently Formstack haven't seen this gem entitled "Surprise, surprise! Having no secure icon on a page increased conversions by 400%" http://zachinglis.me/3cpN
1 point by rwhitman 4 hours ago 0 replies      
I don't think its a 'perfect' landing page, but I think its a good framework to start with when designing a new product. And something to point to when working with clients. I'll definitely keep it bookmarked
1 point by ssharp 5 hours ago 3 replies      
ASK YC: Are there any recommend sites that provide results of A/B tests and maybe show some best practices. There are some good fundamentals here but I'd like to see some concepts backed up by data.
1 point by swah 3 hours ago 0 replies      
More like this: an average link but great discussion! How much can the first comments determine the quality of the discussion?
1 point by phlux 4 hours ago 0 replies      
As an aging user, who has been online every single day for the last 15 years, I disagree.

I think this page is far too cluttered.

I like less and less content on a landing page for anything other than a link aggregation(LA) site (HN/Reddit/etc)

I am at your place (if not said LA site) for a specific reason; get me to that reason asap.

More and more, I have less time and less attention..

1 point by ameyamk 4 hours ago 0 replies      

Another great resource to build perfect landing page. Makes great reading to compare these two resources together

0 points by wheaties 3 hours ago 0 replies      
What, no brown? Don't tell me users see that as a big pile of stinky...
1 point by sgallant 3 hours ago 0 replies      
I find it strange that formstack.com published this but don't use it on their own homepage...maybe they followed item #10 and iterated away from it ;)
0 points by kmfrk 6 hours ago 0 replies      
I thought this was satire, but they sound sincere.

Get a check list to go through and design it however you (and your users) like it. If you're patio11, don't add any social media fluff.

1 point by jscore 5 hours ago 0 replies      
No, but it's an example of a perfect linkbait.
1 point by Mizza 3 hours ago 0 replies      
Does anybody know where I can buy a template that's similar to this? I've looked on ThemeForest but they all violate some of these rules.
0 points by nico_h 3 hours ago 0 replies      
Interesting basis, but ARGH! I hate these fake infographics.

Why not put the picture just at the top and write their 10 points in html ?
They could have linked to their reference in context, the text would be easier to correct, possibly prettier and definitely more accessible. And I could adjust it to a decent font size. Aaaaaaaaaaaargh.

0 points by jcfrei 6 hours ago 1 reply      
A "guideline" to a perfect landing page? That's just wrong. If I could define a perfect landing page, it would be the one which sticks out the most!
Crafting it after one guideline just ensures that it will look like all the websites already out there.
1 point by pwnguin 4 hours ago 0 replies      
I wonder if their content was determined by A/B testing?
Facebook intern visualizes friendships, draws world map facebook.com
8 points by psawaya 28 minutes ago   discuss
Commute to work like a boss, fly there kickstarter.com
37 points by alexkiwi 3 hours ago   11 comments top 6
5 points by mixmax 1 hour ago 2 replies      
People have tried to make flying cars since the 60's and yet there has never been a successful product in the niche.

What people seem to overlook is that making a flying car is easy. Making it so that the FCC will allow my mom to fly it and land it in her garage is next to impossible.

If only accredited pilots can buy one the production price won't come down, and if you can only land and take off from an airport as a pilot in an expensive flying device, well then you've invented.... a plane... Congratulations you're competing with Boeing, Gulfstream and Learjet on their own turf - a highly political arena where money and conections count more than anything else.

Here's a link to a company that's beeen claiming that their flying car will go into production next year for the last ten years: http://moller.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=arti...

10 points by dminor 1 hour ago 1 reply      
From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hiller_VZ-1_Pawnee

"Due to aerodynamic effects in the duct within which the propellers rotated, the platform was dynamically stable, even though the pilot and center of gravity of the platform were fairly high up. In testing, the prototypes flew well enough, but the U.S. Army judged them to be impractical as combat vehicles as they were small, limited in speed and only barely flew out of the ground cushion effect."

Seems like it wouldn't be so great for going over mountains and such.

29 points by angdis 1 hour ago 2 replies      
For Christ's sake...
2 points by maeon3 1 hour ago 0 replies      
All money invested in this will be completely wasted. It's a nice dream. But flying cars the general public can use are at least 20 years away. There needs to be a completely automated pilot system that protects you from the 10 million things that can go wrong, windstorms, hailstorms, bird hits, maintenance checks, fuel levels. Pilots get formal educations on how to fly because one mistake and you die. It is no different with this device.
5 points by lg 1 hour ago 0 replies      
most people who commute by air don't feel like a boss :)
1 point by SpacemanSpiff 16 minutes ago 0 replies      
Alternately for the $20,000 he could get an old cessna 172, learn how to maintain it and get his A&P mechanic license and have a safe and reliable way to fly during nice weather.
Still would need an "airport car" to get to work from the airport though.
How to Hack the Psychology of Student Motivation calnewport.com
24 points by da5e 2 hours ago   6 comments top 3
5 points by derefr 45 minutes ago 1 reply      
As a (recent) student, my problem has always been ego depletion/"lack of willpower", not so much a lack of intrinsic motivation. In the times I could be spending working, I feel too burnt out to do much other than watch TV/read HN. Starting in on reading a new book would be an insurmountable task, let alone doing productive work. And the worst thing is, I've never found anything that will give me back my "mojo" except time. So, I wait, and sometimes I get lucky and feel a burst of energy before the deadline long enough to start (continuing once started is a lot easier, but no matter how little I tell myself I need to do to get started, there's always a constant factor that can't be subdivided.)

I seem to get this way more often in winter, so it seems like it could be something like Seasonal Affective Disorder (i.e. clinical depression), but I'm never depressed, just unable to convince myself to take any other path than the easiest one (e.g. fast food instead of home cooking, Short stories instead of novels, video games instead of hobby coding, organizing my computer rather than cleaning my house, etc.)

I have a feeling quite a lot of students could describe their problems with motivation in a similar way. It's not "I don't want to study right now, there's nothing fun about that," but rather "I can't study right now, because I am curled up in a ball of stress-avoidance." (If these students had an escapist crutch, like drinking to excess, this is when they would be doing it.)

1 point by mitjak 42 minutes ago 1 reply      
If grades don't work what does?

I'm in an anthropology lecture where the professor who taught in the department for 35+ years is allowed to largely not believe in grades and basically dictate answers to students during the exam. I personally used the lectures as an introduction to a new to me topic, but a large number of students sign up for the lectures having found from their peers about an easy GPA booster. Some didn't listen to the lectures; many skipped it entirely.

1 point by ebzlo 1 hour ago 0 replies      
I have a belief that if a professor assigned a 15 page paper on the first day of class on the first chapter in a textbook, you wouldn't see too much a difference than if you assigned it 6 weeks into the semester.
Face Detection jQuery Plugin jaysalvat.com
27 points by iuguy 2 hours ago   10 comments top 5
5 points by Swizec 2 hours ago 2 replies      
While the plugin is probably awesome, there are two things that really suck here.

1. Lack of a real demo. This is the sort of thing that will not convince me until I can click "upload" and have a detected face on my own crappy image.

2. There is no clear link to the actual plugin. I know we're all web guys and can extract links from source, but come on. Even the "source on github" text isn't a link ...

edit: the word Github is a link, but there is no visual way of distinguishing it from the rest of the text, which leaves me dazed and confused.

1 point by marknutter 5 minutes ago 0 replies      
He's not using that money to buy beer..
2 points by earle 2 hours ago 1 reply      
Detection is the easy part -- recognition has always been the stumper!
1 point by dfischer 2 hours ago 0 replies      
This is awesome.
1 point by ameyamk 2 hours ago 1 reply      
where is the download link?
Yahoo may ax 650 jobs tomorrow (report) venturebeat.com
10 points by zoowar 1 hour ago   1 comment top
1 point by logic 1 hour ago 0 replies      
Heroku Gets Sweet Logging heroku.com
76 points by jkvor 5 hours ago   11 comments top 5
2 points by avk 31 minutes ago 0 replies      
$ heroku logs --tail

! Realtime tail and filter are not available with basic logging, please upgrade to expanded logging


3 points by dholowiski 4 hours ago 0 replies      
That's great. My first attempt at using heroku was frustrated by their not-so-sweet logging. I'll have to try it out again for my next project
9 points by yuxt 4 hours ago 1 reply      
my favorite:
2010-10-21T10:11:16-07:00 app[web.2]: Company acquired /_party (0.1ms)
1 point by ai09 4 hours ago 1 reply      
Until the Advanced functionality is rolled out publicly, does anyone have suggestions for logging all requests to something like S3? I was going to write my own this afternoon since I couldn't find anything.

I see the market currently providing two options, neither of which encompass my use case.

1) Exception Logging via existing Heroku addons like Exceptional

2) Tracking via javascript, e.g. Google Analytics

The problem I'm experiencing is that I have successful ajax calls to a Sinatra app that I'd like to log. Running 'heroku logs' will give me the last couple hundred but I'm generating many thousands. The new new Heroku logging functionality will expand that tail to showing me a few thousand queries across my dynos but as I understand it, it won't write out to S3 (nor a file since Heroku is write-only).

I planned on writing a custom logger that will output to S3. If anyone has suggestions in lieu of rolling my own, please advise. Otherwise I can post the code I create on github for others in my situation.

Wik-Bee Leaks: EPA Knowingly Allowed Pesticide That Kills Honey Bees fastcompany.com
157 points by monkeygrinder 8 hours ago   35 comments top 7
25 points by JanezStupar 8 hours ago 1 reply      
There is corporate "ethos" and "greed is good" etc... But what I find disturbing is that these wankers (corporate and government) are stupid/greedy enough to fuck over honeybees.

The same honeybees that are providing us with 1 in 3 meals every single friggin day! Maybe big-pharma is confident that it can feed the humanity - but I see it as an incredibly shortsighted strategy that WILL cause us our lives - before global warming or nukes - since we're apparently trying extremely hard to exterminate the little critters.

18 points by maukdaddy 6 hours ago 0 replies      
FYI the ORIGINAL Grist article much better and full of detail:


18 points by Alex3917 7 hours ago 1 reply      
Considering the EPA's past lies about the air quality at ground zero, the mercury levels in fresh water fish, etc., let's just say that if you believe anything they say then I've got a boat load of perfectly safe shrimp from the gulf to sell you.
9 points by BrandonM 6 hours ago 2 replies      
Is there any reason these beekeepers can't sue Bayer and the EPA for the side effects of the pesticides? Couldn't such a suit call for an injunction preventing its use pending the results of the lawsuit?
18 points by alecco 7 hours ago 5 replies      
I don't understand how politicians are allowed to campaign with corporate money.
6 points by qeorge 7 hours ago 0 replies      


The timing seems incredible.

1 point by byteclub 2 hours ago 0 replies      
That's ok, we'll just replace honey with high-fructose corn syrup - problem solved!
Wherein reporters don't find duplicate bugs google.com
20 points by axiak 2 hours ago   7 comments top 2
9 points by redstripe 2 hours ago 4 replies      
I would call this a bug tracker fail. Having a 20,000 issues in the database is going to lead to a lot of data duplication.

Searching for "mouse wheel scroll" produced 111 results. The chance that I will read through all 111 of those if I am only slightly interested in the project is: zero percent. Instead I will submit a new bug as a bit of volunteering and leave the sorting out to the maintainers.

Not like one more dupe on a 20k list will make a difference. Broken window theory.

At the very least they could have a prominent top 10 trending bugs list or something. It would help keep the system from being flooded when a new build introduces an easily triggered bug.

5 points by jey 1 hour ago 0 replies      
Why Stack Exchange Data Explorer is moving off the Windows Azure platform stackoverflow.com
24 points by rayvega 3 hours ago   6 comments top 2
3 points by jeffb 52 minutes ago 1 reply      
stackoverflow said:
"There's also the 30 minute deploy cycle." ... "It is important to note that these issues are by no means specific to Azure; similar teething issues affect other Platform-As-A-Service providers such as Google App Engine and Heroku"

Deployment on Heroku takes seconds in my experience. Certainly not 30 minutes!

Also, db backups on Heroku are easy. And if you don't want to use Heroku's built-in PostgreSQL db, it's easy to use Amazon's RDS instead.

It seems strange to imply that Heroku currently has the same problems they attribute to Azure.

1 point by latch 1 hour ago 1 reply      
Wow, kudos to the SO team for making the right choice for them. Too many companies/individuals fall for this type of aggressive sales pitch and end up paying for it in the long run.

Kinda a blow for Azure...can't give it away..

Google Latitude app for iPhone googlemobile.blogspot.com
17 points by richardburton 2 hours ago   8 comments top 3
3 points by frb 56 minutes ago 1 reply      
Why are iPhone 3G users left out?

Besides the background updating thing I don't see any features or reasons why it can't run on a 3G.

1 point by pama 52 minutes ago 1 reply      
1 point by albertogh 47 minutes ago 1 reply      
I liked the most upvoted comment on Reddit:

"Latitudie is still better; fun to see google playing catchup. :)"

Of course, I'm biased.

A persistent multiplayer online programming game gr1d.org
22 points by josephcooney 3 hours ago   8 comments top
1 point by harpastum 2 hours ago 2 replies      
The site appears to be down. Does anyone have a cache/description?
Yacc is dead: An update might.net
63 points by Autre 6 hours ago   13 comments top 5
11 points by dasht 3 hours ago 0 replies      
People should please take away from this paper the central claim that they are offering up a fun, easy, and startlingly practical way to implement a parsing library in your favorite language / environment. It is but a few hundred lines in some functional languages. Scarcely importantly more in other languages. It is (per their plausible claims) a nice alternative to trying to muck up some dubious approximation using your regexp engine.

The "YACC is dead" claim of the original paper, and of this follow-up, is not so much "this is so good, everyone will stop using YACC". Rather, its that people don't use YACC when they ought to because it is inconvenient -- but this derivative-based parsing hack is convenient in important ways that YACC fails to be.

4 points by jorgeortiz85 2 hours ago 1 reply      

    Over the past year, even in the little time we've had to
work on the paper, we've learned a lot more about parsing
with derivatives.

In the week after the community found it, you all taught
us ten times more than that. Thank you!

Why isn't all computer science research done like this?

3 points by silentbicycle 5 hours ago 0 replies      
Discussion for the previous post: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1948048
1 point by erikb 2 hours ago 3 replies      
I nearly don't understand anything of this. It sounds cool, though.There is so much math and lisp...

But I want to learn and if possible even help. What do I have to learn to understand this and maybe implement it in my own languages?

0 points by hsmyers 3 hours ago 2 replies      
Claim strikes me as a bit premature given the amount of Yacc based code there is in the world busy producing away day in and day out. If the algorithm is what it is said to be and I've no reason to doubt that, then at some point we will all be blessed with a Yacc replacement. Since I've always found Yacc to be a PIA, I certainly won't miss the old regime, but since there is nothing to use at the moment, I'm going to hold off a bit...
Mark Pincus speaks at Stanford stanford.edu
10 points by rahooligan 1 hour ago   discuss
Tell HN: In case you're interested, I'm selling my webapp wrttn.in flippa.com
20 points by jmonegro 2 hours ago   9 comments top 4
1 point by rubyrescue 11 minutes ago 2 replies      
sold. the other six 'online notepad' options are terrible. this should be #1. the only thing i'm going to change is stick an ad for one of my sites (inboxSEO) on it. also, i'm a sucker for helping out starving college students.
1 point by prawn 1 hour ago 1 reply      
Wasn't aware of http://embed.ly - thanks, looks useful!
1 point by jmonegro 2 hours ago 1 reply      
I'm using it mainly to fund ongoing projects, as I, the broke college student, have run out of cash. The last bit of money I had to my name was spent on the flippa listing.
1 point by yellow 1 hour ago 0 replies      
TIL: there is a website for buying and selling websites.
Visualizing friendships facebook.com
5 points by ashu 37 minutes ago   discuss
Google Chrome Developer Tools google.com
30 points by selectnull 3 hours ago   16 comments top 8
7 points by vinhboy 2 hours ago 0 replies      
Does anyone else want a built-in JS beautifier?
1 point by metachris 1 hour ago 0 replies      
Until yesterday I've favored Firebug over Chrome Dev Tools; the only real reason being that I haven't been familiar with the Chrome tools at all. Yesterday I fell in love with Chrome Dev Tools... The reason is that I was playing around with developing a Chrome extension (in particular one for HN which I'll have finished soon).

Not only is extension development much more fun (you can load unbundled extensions directly from the source directory, reload it to load the updates source code with one click, and there is no need to restart the browser at all). But one of the best features is that when you get some element from the DOM of the current page, and log it or any of the children elements to the developer console and hover over it, Chrome highlights that particular part on the website itself. This is just so helpful!

5 points by puls 2 hours ago 1 reply      
This is news... why? I thought everybody knew about this dating back to the very first release of Chrome and the releases of Safari before that.
4 points by eclark 2 hours ago 1 reply      
These tools are awesome. For my money they are better than firebug.

However the dev channel has a tendency to break JS breakpointing. It seems like I can never fully delete some breakpoints.

3 points by wahnfrieden 2 hours ago 1 reply      
The only thing that these can't do which Firebug Lite can is render the HTML for XHR responses inline in the console. In Chrome, unless I'm using the Firebug lite bookmarklet (which isn't perfect), I have to copy and save the response to a file before being able to view it. This is a big time waster for debugging web apps that send error messages in HTML, like with Django.
3 points by ImJasonH 2 hours ago 1 reply      
1 point by Thangorodrim 1 hour ago 0 replies      
I cannot help but note that the documentation appears to be obsolete relative to the normal production deployed version of Chrome (on windows).

Chrome Developer Tools no longer has a 'Network' icon / function and the 'Storage' icon / function is not documented.

I believe Network was subsumed into Resources recently.

Personally, I have found the excellent CDT to be essentially self-documenting.

1 point by jpancake 2 hours ago 0 replies      
Firebug (getfirebug.com)
Bench That Rig: Futuremark's 3DMark 11 Explored, AMD,Intel and NVIDIA Compared hothardware.com
7 points by MojoKid 1 hour ago   2 comments top
1 point by dfischer 32 minutes ago 1 reply      
I wish it weren't so expensive to build gaming rigs. It makes me want to stick to consoles even though I've been a PC gamer my whole life.

Spending two grand to play games every 3 years is old news for me now.

Show HN: A Genetic Algorithm I wrote in JavaScript to evolve "Hello World" puremango.co.uk
5 points by user24 53 minutes ago   2 comments top
2 points by user24 51 minutes ago 1 reply      
The code's fairly messy, but I hope the blog post and online demo will be enough to give the absolute beginner a good idea of how GAs work.

One day I hope to apply machine learning to the art of predicting real-life events. This is one small step towards that project, and I'd love to hear your feedback! - But it's 1AM now so I'll be offline for the next few hours. Here's hoping I wake up to a million upvotes! :)

The Waffle Game That Changed Their Lives kotaku.com
42 points by evo_9 6 hours ago   4 comments top 4
6 points by sanj 4 hours ago 0 replies      
A boy embarking on his teenage years with few anchors in a chaotic world has a place he may call his own, with people there who know him and will welcome him always.

This is a goal of mine for my kid. Having an anchor -- especially with some distance from you parents -- can help immensely.

1 point by weegy 1 hour ago 0 replies      
The waffles are also delicious.
1 point by trafficlight 5 hours ago 0 replies      
The games look very well done. I'd love to play it sometime.
2 points by eru 6 hours ago 0 replies      
Excellent PR for the waffle shop.
Engineers: Build businesses not apps emphaticsolutions.com
90 points by briandoll 9 hours ago   21 comments top 10
37 points by thetrumanshow 9 hours ago 1 reply      
Or, build apps, lots of them, keep them alive, find distribution channels to push them through (platforms), improve the winners, sideline the losers, find a niche, build apps for the niche, keep slugging away at it, build up a portfolio of complementary things.. and then build a business out of it.

I mean, its very very hard to get it right the first time and hit one out of the park, so you have to try a million tiny things to find some things that stick. The trick is knowing when you're on to something and when you need to double-down. If you can't do that yourself, get outside people involved when you think you have something. If everyone walks away disinterested, you may not have anything yet... keep going.

16 points by tlrobinson 7 hours ago 1 reply      
This is the counter point to business types saying "I have an idea, all I need is a coder to build it"... "I have an app, all I need is to turn it into a business"
4 points by vic_nyc 5 hours ago 1 reply      
The author makes a very good point, yet I fail to see practical advices about how to tackle the "business" side of things.

In the Milo.com example, it seems they succeeded because they were able to establish relationships with the big retailers. Yet I doubt that, had the author picked up the phone and called these retailers, he would have had any luck. It's possible, but business deals seem to be a lot about "relationships". Would the solution be to partner with a business person? Maybe, but how would you go about finding that person? They should be someone with knowledge and relationships in the particular business area (here, retailers), and yet it seems most of the successful business partnerships seem to have been between people who knew each other for a while (e.g. college friends, etc), probably because trust is essential. And yet in that case, it seems very difficult to find a matching relationship between the people involved and the "business idea" / "epiphany".

It would be interesting to learn about how an engineer can learn more about the business-side of things, and how to successfully partner with business people.

4 points by bherms 8 hours ago 1 reply      
I've noticed this with lots of engineering type people... We love to build, to push boundaries, test limits, apply new ideas and technology, but don't generally like to think about all of the other stuff because it doesn't seem quite as cool or exciting.

I'm launching a business soon and I must say, there's a lot more that goes into it than I expected from the get go. Pricing plans, the front-facing website -- what information goes on it, how do I sell it, what do I focus on, etc -- logo, business cards, hosting options, funding, lawyers, incorporating, beta testing, etc... There's so much extra stuff involved and decisions to make.

It's really not for everyone though; so engineers, keep building apps if thats what you like to do. If the other stuff excites or interests you, then do that. Just know that if you want to build a business, there's a lot of extra crap you'll have to do that is gonna either suck, or if you're like me, excite you even more.

4 points by dangrover 9 hours ago 0 replies      
This is something I realized last year.

It turns out the same kind of detail oriented "hacker"-minded thinking that goes into coding can be applied to a lot of other things. Just takes patience and the willingness to be a beginner again.

2 points by _pius 5 hours ago 0 replies      
Get the giant retailers first, where there is huge impact with a single business integration.

Though this wasn't the point of the article, this sector specific point is worth considering for any online business trying to do "local."

2 points by jcromartie 9 hours ago 1 reply      
Been there. I had the "that was my idea" moment a few days ago when I saw http://skillsapp.com/ which is something I had been toying with in my mind.

The thing is, as with apps, there is always room for competition. So what if someone "takes" your idea first? You can execute on it too and build something worth paying for; maybe even a better one.

2 points by geekfactor 1 hour ago 0 replies      
Or my related self-admonition: build the business before you buy the domain name.

There are better and cheaper ways to keep track of good ideas than a GoDaddy account!

1 point by grammaton 8 hours ago 0 replies      
Interesting, if somewhat standard issue, article - however, it seems to me that the author wasn't really building an app at all. A shopping portal with a search function - whoop dee doo. Might be an interesting business, but at this point that doesn't qualify as an app so much as it qualifies as a remedial exercise any halfway competent webdev could throw together in a day or two. It seems to me the "build businesses not apps" crowd tends to confuse businesses that use technology with businesses that ARE technology. The two are very distinct businesses with very different sets of requirements.
1 point by jk8 6 hours ago 0 replies      
With the advent of the app stores on mobile phones, I think it is possible to generate revenue (and profits too) by creating apps. Someone who is a game developer can build a business writing games for all the mobile platforms. If your business is not writing (and selling) games, I think you need to partner up with different players to increase the value of your service.

I think the app stores are letting us developers test our little apps without a business in the foreseeable future, which I think is great. If the app is a success then we can think of building a business around it.

Michael Fogus: Fertile Ground: The Roots of Clojure blip.tv
30 points by Kototama 5 hours ago   3 comments top
2 points by vdoma 3 hours ago 2 replies      
more potatoes than meat.
What if we tested laws before passing them? boston.com
131 points by robg 12 hours ago   119 comments top 26
51 points by DougWebb 11 hours ago replies      
Or, we could pay attention to the 10th Ammendment:

"The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people."

Instead of randomly applying variations of a law, don't federalize it. Let the states pass their own variations, and see how that works out. Sure there are other variables at play, but they mostly revolve around how suitable the law is for the people it applies to, and that's a legitimate reason for the law to vary and part of the purpose of the 10th Ammendment: local self-governance.

I believe most federal laws should be repealed and replaced with guidelines for the states to follow when designing their own laws. These would be "Best Practices" for governments. Most of the world treated the US Constituion this way as they wrote their own constitutions, and I think that worked pretty well. It should work for State governments too.

26 points by hugh3 11 hours ago replies      
Note how the example is lower taxes: why don't we give lower taxes to a hundred thousand people and see what they do? But now suppose the proposal is higher taxes for a hundred thousand people. How do you think the hundred thousand people in the test group are going to react? Not too well, and probably not nearly the same way as if you raised taxes on everybody.

Isn't this one of the supposed advantages of having states, though? So that different laws can be tried out in different places under the same general societal conditions and we can learn what works and what doesn't work? And yet doesn't the Federal Government keep trying to subsume more state powers into itself?

14 points by tibbon 11 hours ago 4 replies      

We should approach this from a two-tiered testing platform.

The first tier is rather like how you'd do it in Rails or any other TDD environment.

We write a list of tests that we know should pass as true at the end. Let's say, start with the US and State constitutions as the basis.

    def must_not_prohibit_exercise_of_religion()

We then write in the test laws and see what side effects occur. When those side effects occur, we must make note of them and consider the potential exceptions.

    def freedom_of_speech()
unless(crowded_theatre && People.speak == fire)

As a second layer then we must test it on smaller populations to determine the effects. This has worked wonderfully in some situations. "Gay Marriage will destroy marriage and society" is a claim I've heard prior. So test it in Massachusetts. Several years later, no marriages on record have been destroyed due to gay marriage, and the metrics of society's stability have not moved significantly in any direction that we can attribute to same-sex marriage. So it (should) pass and become law nationally because we've observed its effects. We can observe similar for the long term effects of required health insurance in Massachusetts as we debate how things should work out nationally.

Just as we have 'human-readable code' why shouldn't our laws be machine readable? Computers can remember/understand 200+ years of case law probably better than humans. Again, this is something that we could test.

One of my friends is working on a law firm run by computers (http://www.robotandhwang.com/). Of course the machines can't show up in court or legally offer advice, but they can advise the attorney. (Law.com and ABA Journal have cited him doing this, so maybe it isn't as crazy as it sounds).

10 points by btilly 12 hours ago 3 replies      
It is an interesting idea.

However I'd be concerned that the law would work differently with a subset than the whole population. For instance take a law banning cellphones while driving. If you try to apply this to half the population, then the police aren't going to try to apply it because at least half the time they would be pulling over people who are allowed to use cellphones. But if you pass the law for all of the people, then the police could enforce it. So you try to solve this by saying that it will be selectively enforced according to location. But now you've gotten rid of the random selection that is the heart of evaluating the statistics.

For another example, look at the tax cut example they were discussing. The challenge here is that the touted economic benefit of tax cutting is that people with lower taxes spend their money, increasing circulation, and general prosperity. (And eventually improving tax revenue.) However there is no way to economically separate out the people you're giving the cut to from those you aren't. Therefore any economic change cannot be attributed to the tax cut, and you're unlikely to get a clear economic difference. (Other than that the less taxed have more disposable income.)

9 points by Goladus 11 hours ago 0 replies      
I don't think you could test taxation, for a number of reasons.

First, you don't have time to measure the effects of funding changes. How do people behave with the new services funded by the taxes, when you aren't collecting enough to provide them anyway? Does the government go bankrupt? No, because revenue was not changed significantly due to the small size of the test.

Second, sample populations are unlikely to exhibit the same behavioral traits of large-scale populations. For example, if you applied a tax increase to a limited segment of the population the first behavior change you would see is that people would try to escape the test group.

For something like a sales tax this is even more obvious. The overall rate of taxation matters much less than the rate relative to a competitor. It's a free competitive advantage and of course behavior will change-- the untaxed businesses will be more likely to thrive and grow while driving their competitors bankrupt. When everyone has the same tax rate they have to find real market advantages.

The whole point of taxes is that they are applied universally as much as possible. Everyone contributes a little bit so that the society can have things that benefit everyone but the market is unlikely to ever provide. NPR just discussed autopsies as an example of this. Understanding why people die is good for the public, yet only the most altruistic individuals are inclined to pay for an autopsy of their own loved ones.

While I suppose it is possible to design test runs of tax laws, I doubt it will ever be as simple as picking a "representative sample of 10,000." There are probably only certain kinds of laws that can be tested, and tax laws probably aren't among them.

7 points by CWuestefeld 11 hours ago 2 replies      
What is the purpose of passing a law? I submit that its primary purpose may not be to bring about a change in the behavior of those subject to it, but rather, as a signaling mechanism by which a politician can say to those in his party, or his constituents, "I'm playing on your team".

We see time and time again regulation that is known to be worthless or even destructive even before it's implemented (e.g., CAN-SPAM, airport porn scanners), yet bureaucrats stand behind them, and even trumpet their "success", just the same.

Recent threads here have discussed whether voting behavior is really based on weighing issues, as opposed to signaling one's identity as a member of the "club" (party, special interest, etc.). If this is true, then it's only logical that the politician's job is to make it know that he is the representative of that "club", and actual goodness of his work isn't particularly relevant.

17 points by messel 12 hours ago 5 replies      
Why stop at new laws? Existing laws should be relentlessly reviewed for relevance.

One issue I see with random sample law experimentation is blindness to effects which only crop up when everyone is subject to a law. Take for example gun control. If a small sample of folks aren't allowed to have guns there may be little negative fall out. But taken to the extreme if gun ownership is illegal than by definition only law breakers would have guns making the random burglary or home invasion far less dangerous for criminals and far more dangerous for law abiding citizens.

5 points by jessriedel 8 hours ago 0 replies      
The RAND study is famous for trying this on a pretty large scale with health insurance:


Robin Hanson has been a big proponent of resuming similar experiments:

Worth reading even if you're of a different political persuasion.

5 points by pierrefar 12 hours ago 1 reply      
Surely this is a prime candidate for the Hawthorne effect?

From Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawthorne_effect
The Hawthorne effect is a form of reactivity whereby subjects improve or modify an aspect of their behavior being experimentally measured simply in response to the fact that they are being studied, not in response to any particular experimental manipulation.

12 points by tomjen3 12 hours ago 1 reply      
this sounds smart until you realize that would mean giving up the principle that the law treats everybody the same, which we always complain about the politicians doing.
1 point by gills 1 hour ago 0 replies      
Experimenting on humans with a system backed by the use of force would be despicable. What happened to basic respect for each other?

Anyway, if we want to know how a group behaves when lawbreaking goes unpunished, we need look no further than the FIRE industries, Congress, and the current Cabinet.

3 points by jokermatt999 11 hours ago 0 replies      
Hmm..Hacker News' love of A/B testing also applies to laws, apparently.

Also, isn't one of the arguments for stronger state laws and weaker federal laws very similar to this proposal? That is, if you give states greater autonomy, it's easy to test the effects of laws and give citizens choice over which laws they'd like.

3 points by JimboOmega 9 hours ago 0 replies      
I've advocated this for a while in a somewhat obvious field, traffic law.

However, there's a flaw; science in the political arena is subject to interpretation. In VA, we've gone through this with red light cameras. For a while they were authorized at a few intersections to see if they reduced accidents.

They didn't (http://www.thenewspaper.com/news/18/1844.asp).

But a few years later, red light cameras are back, the whole study thing having been an annoying thorn in the side of politicians, who like red light cameras (because they are perceived as good for safety, for money, whatever - who knows?)

So an article comes out like this: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/02... which contradicts the link I posted before.

How can the same study come to opposite conclusions? That's politics. In any case, the politicians decide what they want to do, and then change the science to suit.

After all, can you really imagine a politician saying "I supported X fully, until the results of the study came out, and clearly, X is not effective, so I no longer support X?"

Only if the study is poll numbers, I imagine.

1 point by ChristianMarks 8 hours ago 0 replies      
Effective methods to elevate political and social discourse above the level of ideological debate would be revolutionary. Empirical testing of proposed legislation should be implemented as soon as possible. In controversial cases where experimentation doesn't lead to satisfactory outcomes, thanks to ideological intransigence, the method should be supplemented with a proposal that I call Bimodal Politics.

Technology could be used to manage controversial political issues, for which the distribution of voters is bimodal and for which there is essentially no middle ground. Such issues include abortion rights, stem cell research and gay marriage. Through the system of bimodal politics, voters would live in parallel legal and political worlds, with different rights and obligations to the state depending on how they voted.

Where controversial legal and political matters are concerned, the distribution of opinion involves roughly equal and opposite numbers of equally-informed, impartial rational voters. (Some would contend that for issues such as abortion, a few vociferous opponents give the misleading impression of a much larger opposition, but until this is established, we will proceed as if public discourse reflects a genuine controversy.)

Although the voters on each side of a controversy may not see the other side as rational or equally informed, one essential feature of controversies is that they cannot be decided by common morality, and they have to be transferred to the legal and political system for resolution. The legal and political system can attempt to resolve controversial issues one way or the other, but it is understood that the resolution is provisional and does not resolve any underlying moral issues.

Deciding controversial issues one way or the other is inherently unstable. What if it were possible to decide issues in parallel, in such a way that each group in a controversial issue imposes rights and obligations only upon itself and no group imposes its vote on the members of the other group? Is there a procedure that would result in less political and social instability than deciding one way or the other for all voters?

Bimodal politics attempts to provide a legal and political mechanism for resolving politically controversial issues, with the understanding that it provides a political decision procedure: it does not address the underlying moral issues. In outline, a database is maintained of voter preference on controversial issues that are designated bimodal issues. Your vote is recorded by the bimodal voter database. Your vote determines your rights and obligations to the state on that particular issue in parallel with those voters who voted oppositely, and who may have (and probably have) different rights and obligations under the state.

Consider stem cell research. Under the proposed system, stem cell research would be designated a bimodal issue. During an election, your vote on stem cell research would be entered into the database. If you voted in favor of stem cell research, you may be taxed to support it, your embryos may be harvested for stem cells (these may be from embryos slated for destruction in any case) and if you develop a disease that requires stem cell derived therapy for its treatment, you will be eligible for it.

If you voted against stem cell research, you will not be taxed to support it, your embryos will not be harvested for stem cells and if you develop a disease you will be prohibited from pursuing treatments derived from stem cell research.

Abortion is another issue that would be designated a bimodal issue under the system of bimodal politics. If you vote against abortion, your tax dollars will not be used to support state-sponsored family planning programs or sex education, and you will be legally barred from having an abortion if you are female. If you are male and you impregnate a woman who has an abortion, and you voted against abortion, you will be held legally liable.

In either case, if you voted against abortion and your fetus or your partner's fetus is aborted, you will be prosecuted by the state. However, if you voted in favor of abortion, your fetus can be aborted, and your tax dollars may go to support state-sponsored family planning programs and sex education.

These examples illustrate the slogan that under bimodal politics, you live in the world you voted for.

2 points by qjz 10 hours ago 0 replies      
I'd be happy if they developed a protocol for testing the constitutionality of a law. That would have to be part of any experiment, since the effectiveness of a law is irrelevant if it's unconstitutional.
1 point by rwhitman 8 hours ago 0 replies      
I firmly believe that the next major system of government to emerge in the future will be heavily influenced from the lessons learned in governing social media communities.

The idea of A/B testing laws seems like it would fit into this pretty well.

1 point by Natsu 6 hours ago 0 replies      
Maybe we could also put the laws into source control, be able to roll back to a "known good" state and have a "blame" command for who introduced changes that screwed everything up.

Unfortunately, politics is largely in the realm of emotion. And people hate being proven wrong.

3 points by brudgers 9 hours ago 0 replies      
IANAL, but I don't think this meets the Equal Protection Clause of the 14th Amendment.
3 points by Aaronontheweb 9 hours ago 1 reply      
We have a system for doing this - it's called Federalism.
1 point by ph0rque 11 hours ago 1 reply      
I was hoping the proposal would be testing laws on a virtual US, something commented on before: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1724778
1 point by gibsonf1 10 hours ago 0 replies      
The idea that raising taxes increases revenue has been shown to be untrue with actual taxation data time and again. A good resource for cause and effect with taxation is "Hauser's Law": http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hausers_Law
1 point by giardini 3 hours ago 0 replies      
At least we could do A/B testing with them! Isn't that what states are for?
1 point by wazoox 10 hours ago 0 replies      
Problem : most people aren't interested in reality and truth. See the the "teach creationism" debate. It would be great, however.
1 point by stuaxo 11 hours ago 0 replies      
I've been talking to people about exactly this sort of thing, I'd make the trial groups bigger though.
1 point by vhackish 9 hours ago 0 replies      
This would be a great way to test out new jails too - when you break a test law, straight to the test jail with you!
0 points by albemuth 10 hours ago 0 replies      
I thought that's what California was all about
HN: We're starting a "Move to Silicon Valley" wiki. We could use some help. svstartup.com
165 points by iamelgringo 14 hours ago   39 comments top 17
6 points by hugh3 11 hours ago 3 replies      
Why just Silicon Valley and not the whole SF Bay Area?

edit: Actually, now I look at your wiki it seems to be focused on the whole Bay Area while just claiming to be about the valley. This is wrong: San Francisco isn't part of SV and certainly the East Bay isn't either. (San Jose is debatable.) Now, while most of the early errors made in a wiki will get corrected eventually, giving it the wrong name is an uncorrectable error, so I'd recommend changing the name before you do anything else.

5 points by arfrank 11 hours ago 0 replies      
I just started something very similar for the DC area (http://dcstartupwiki.com/). It makes sense to have a centralized location for all this startup in, but delegated by locale. That way, there only needs to be one location to goto to get started and from there you can choose where you are looking for relevant startup info about.

I know PG owns http://startupwiki.com, and has some longterm plans for it, but it'd be nice to see a easily rememberable centralized location for all this information. Somewhere down the line it could gain sponsorships in order to pay for itself, and (BFAD) become a centralized location for startups to lobby for things then benefit all of them (i.e. legislation, at least in the US)

5 points by iamelgringo 11 hours ago 0 replies      
By they way, incoming links from blogs, etc... are always welcome. We really want this to be a community resource that becomes useful for years.
22 points by rabc 13 hours ago 5 replies      
My suggestion: a section about immigration and a list of startups hiring people who wants to work in U.S.
3 points by hwijaya 12 hours ago 0 replies      
We are working on something similar in Australia - http://www.startup-australia.org/thevalley. I am moving to SV early next year. I'll try to add to the SVstartup wiki based on few bits of information I have gathered.
1 point by pmjordan 6 hours ago 0 replies      
Thank you! I wish I could contribute. I'll certainly keep an eye on the content that does turn up as we're getting increasingly restless in Vienna. In addition to the immigration related stuff mentioned in another thread, I'd be much obliged to anyone who could contribute cost-of-living related info. Basics like rent, utilities and food and any expense I might not be expecting coming from Europe...
1 point by cmelbye 11 hours ago 1 reply      
I'm not a great resource of Silicon Valley startup advice, but if you need any help with the technical aspects (such as rewrite rules so you don't have URLs that look like /~svstartu/index.php?title=Main_Page ;), or if you need a skin, MediaWiki extension, etc, I'd be happy to help. I have some experience with the internals of MediaWiki.

EDIT: Also, for others looking where to start, take a peek at this page for a full list of pages that need to be created: http://svstartup.com/~svstartu/index.php?title=Special:Wante...

2 points by equivalence 11 hours ago 0 replies      
I think this is a good idea not only for those seeking to move to the Valley but also those just there for a visit. I was there for a week before and after Startup School this year and I would have loved to have had a definitive hackers reference for the area. It might also be worth asking pg is you can use some of the content from his "Where to see in Silicon Valley" essay.
3 points by Dramatize 13 hours ago 0 replies      
Thank you very much. This is very helpful.
1 point by pclark 12 hours ago 1 reply      
I think Quora is a more appropriate destination for this content, it already has a great critical mass of users, and a more accessible UI. (you also know it won't just vanish tomorrow)
2 points by sero 10 hours ago 2 replies      
Wow, what perfect timing, I'm planning on moving out there in 6 months and just started my research :) I'll add my thoughts to the wiki after I go through the whole process
1 point by dsantos 5 hours ago 0 replies      
also you can find some references/links in this post http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1586027
1 point by bandrew 4 hours ago 0 replies      
I gave a presentation at FOWA in London recently on this exact topic - you can see my slides at http://www.slideshare.net/bandrew/fowa-2010-fighting-and-thr...

Hope you find the content useful.

1 point by spyrosk 12 hours ago 0 replies      
On the job boards page you were linking to startup.ly which is a parked domain.
I've edited it to link to startuply.com, I hope this is the one you meant.
1 point by lfnik 10 hours ago 0 replies      
This could be invaluable to me. I plan on quitting my job at the startup where I currently work to move to SF/SV (Prefer SF) and look for work. Resources for networking, places to work on projects and cheap places to crash.
1 point by Nate75Sanders 13 hours ago 1 reply      
This is a great idea.

Anybody know of similar resources for Seattle? I'm moving there inside of 6 weeks with a half-time telecommute job and I'm looking to get involved in the tech scene and find people to hack with.

1 point by kpdvx 9 hours ago 0 replies      
Does anyone know of a "Move to New York" wiki? One specific to startups would be great, but a more generic guide would be great, too.
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