hacker news with inline top comments    .. more ..    18 Aug 2017 Best
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Ask a Female Engineer: Thoughts on the Google Memo ycombinator.com
1071 points by cbcowans  2 days ago   1477 comments top
hedgew 2 days ago  replies      
Many of the more reasonable criticisms of the memo say that it wasn't written well enough; it could've been more considerate, it should have used better language, or better presentation. In this particular link, Scott Alexander is used as an example of better writing, and he certainly is one of the best and most persuasive modern writers I've found. However, I can not imagine ever matching his talent and output, even if I practiced for years to try and catch up.

I do not think that anyone's ability to write should disbar them from discussion. We can not expect perfection from others. Instead we should try to understand them as human beings, and interpret them with generosity and kindness.

Why We Terminated Daily Stormer cloudflare.com
835 points by SamWhited  1 day ago   1495 comments top
r721 1 day ago 14 replies      
>This was my decision. This is not Cloudflares general policy now, going forward, Cloudflare CEO Matthew Prince told Gizmodo. I think we have to have a conversation over what part of the infrastructure stack is right to police content.

(from internal email)

>Let me be clear: this was an arbitrary decision. It was different than what Id talked talked with our senior team about yesterday. I woke up this morning in a bad mood and decided to kick them off the Internet. I called our legal team and told them what we were going to do. I called our Trust & Safety team and had them stop the service. It was a decision I could make because Im the CEO of a major Internet infrastructure company.


U.S. judge says LinkedIn cannot block startup from public profile data reuters.com
779 points by techrush  3 days ago   286 comments top 28
iamleppert 3 days ago 14 replies      
I fully support this decision. If you're offering a service that is public, with the intent to your users that such information will be available publicly, you cannot then police what users of that data you consider to be "public" because it serves your business interest.

LinkedIn, of course, wants to get all the benefit of the public Internet with providing as little as they can. This, coming from someone who used to work at LinkedIn.

These companies have built their fortunes on the public Internet and now that they are successful they seek to not pay homage to the platform that give them their success. It's very clearly anti-competitive, and bad for users. LinkedIn should be forced to compete based upon the veracity and differentiation of their service, not because they have their users' public data held hostage from competitors.

bigtones 3 days ago 4 replies      
This is just a preliminary injunction and the court has not even heard or ruled on this case. They just allowed HiQ to access the data while they wait for the scheduled court hearing to begin. The court may eventually rule very differently once they have heard all the evidence presented and weighed up existing applicable case law.

The judge who issued this injunction - Edward Chen, is also the judge presiding over the Uber drivers as independent contractors class action case.

danschumann 3 days ago 7 replies      
Being a programmer not a lawyer, I like the idea of more rights for scrapers. I don't want to see the internet partitioned away and owned by a few companies, especially when that information is often called a "public profile".
PatrickAuld 3 days ago 1 reply      
> We will continue to fight to protect our members ability to control the information they make available on LinkedIn.

LinkedIn has full control over this, it's their site. What they are fighting for is the ability to choose who gets public access to various pieces of information; which its member do not get control over.

DanBlake 3 days ago 6 replies      
This seems very at-odds with previous rulings (specifically, relating to craigslists many past dealings). Strikes me as being very unlikely to stand up to appeal. Also, linkedin will likely modify their websites behavior (make you click to agree before you view a profile) which would create a binding 'click wrap' stopping companies from scraping them.
charlesdm 3 days ago 1 reply      
"U.S. District Judge Edward Chen in San Francisco granted a preliminary injunction request brought by hiQ Labs, and ordered LinkedIn to remove within 24 hours any technology preventing hiQ from accessing public profiles."

Interesting ruling

flyGuyOnTheSly 3 days ago 0 replies      
How does this affect Craigslist's Cease and Desist request to padmapper? [0]

[0] http://blog.padmapper.com/2012/06/22/bye-bye-craigslist/

comex 3 days ago 0 replies      
I dont see anyone linking to the actual ruling, so I grabbed it from PACER. Here it is:


razwall 3 days ago 1 reply      
From reading the ruling, the injunction was based on a finding that HiQ raised serious questions about whether LinkedIn blocking HiQ's scrapers constituted a violation of California's unfair competition law by violating the spirit of federal antitrust law.

HiQ argued that LinkedIn has a monopoly on "the professional networking market" and is unfairly exploiting that monopoly to gain an advantage in the data analytics market. HiQ showed that LinkedIn might be developing an analytics product that competes directly with their Skill Mapper product.

thinbeige 3 days ago 0 replies      
Does the startup want to scrape the public profiles which you see when logged out of LinkedIn? If yes, this profile data is of little value because it's probably 5% of the real profile data (mainly just the summary) and often there are no public available at all, many times these profiles are turned off for public virw.

Or do they mean the 'public' profile which you see when logged in? If yes, this would be a real case because this is awesome data I would like to scrape and which you could build interesting business cases with.

drngdds 3 days ago 1 reply      
I'm confused. Is the judge saying that LinkedIn can't use the law to ban HiQ from scraping their profiles or that they can't implement technology to block scrapers? The former seems reasonable but the latter seems like an unjustified restriction on how they operate their site.
codedokode 2 days ago 0 replies      
> U.S. District Judge Edward Chen in San Francisco granted a preliminary injunction request brought by hiQ Labs, and ordered LinkedIn to remove within 24 hours any technology preventing hiQ from accessing public profiles.

That is actually dangerous. Why some startup or some judge can tell me to whom I can serve content and to whom I cannot?

mtokunaga 2 days ago 3 replies      
This type of decision might also impact Yelp or any others in similar businesses. Currently their API limits a top few reviews per business via their API, and also prohibits "scraping" of data in other means.

I was going to do some experiments with larger datasets from businesses in a region, but quickly found that's not possible.

polote 3 days ago 1 reply      
So they want to forbid a startup to scrap the personal data of their users as if Linkedin was the only company allowed to have access to this data.

I mean it is completely crazy, it is not LinkedIn data it is OUR data

walterbell 3 days ago 0 replies      
Is the reasoning in this case different from the Craigslist/3taps dispute?
paulie_a 2 days ago 0 replies      
I do find it odd that LinkedIn is fighting this considering they outright steal your contact list and will spam your friends and family for years.

Recently I was setting up my new phone and thought about installing their app and I thought to myself, why?

Eventually that thought came back to me when I was attempting to update my profile and simply decided to delete it entirely.

opaque 3 days ago 1 reply      
Does anyone know how they do this scraping from a technical standpoint. The articles allude to it being the same as data Google/Bing spiders, which can clearly access more data that average internet IP for making their result summaries. I had assumed big sites whitelisted specific crawler IP ranges or User-Agents for the search giants. Do they somehow spoof this?
brians 3 days ago 0 replies      
Well, good, right?

This is the same outcome most of us wanted between Swartz and JSTOR, and perhaps with Malamud and PACER. No technical control can be in the right place, but we can hope for a common understanding (maybe eventually law?) that terms of service may demand or prohibit some things but not anything.

phkahler 3 days ago 1 reply      
I would prefer if my LinkedIn data was not public in the sense that one should have to be logged in to see it, and ideally I should be able to see who viewed it. If you have to be logged in to look, they can obviously limit the number of profiles you can view to prevent scraping.
PaulHoule 3 days ago 0 replies      
On one hand, LinkedIn is like Twitter, Craigslist and Delicious in that it has sat on a treasure trove of data without helping users mobilize it. (All of the premium services they offer are outright lame; if there was a market for premium services we might seem some good ones.)

On the other hand, privacy is an issue too. LinkedIn lets you download a spreadsheet with the email addresses of all your connections, and if you have a lot of connections you will regularly get e-mail messages from life coaches, "managing directors", software development outsourcers, "SEO experts", and all kind of BS artists.

dizzydes 2 days ago 0 replies      
They needed to make it available within 24 hours - does that mean public profiles are now scrapeable like any other page?

I tried a year ago and obviously it was impossible.

wyldfire 3 days ago 0 replies      
This medium post [1] "The Birth And Death Of Privacy: 3,000 Years of History Told Through 46 Images" gives an interesting and unintuitive context about [personal] privacy, which is relevant in this debate about how to balance personal privacy w/society's value in openness [and honesty].

[1] https://medium.com/the-ferenstein-wire/the-birth-and-death-o...

brango 2 days ago 0 replies      
IANAL but I suspect the forthcoming GDPR will make this illegal for EU customer data. It gives users greater control over their data, so I wouldn't be surprised to find that it corresponds with this judgement, i.e. if a user determines data to be publicly available, it must be made to be so.

Anyone know whether this is right?

And BTW in case you're not aware, if you hold data from any EU citizens you'll be required to comply with the GDPR regardless of where you're located.

pjc50 2 days ago 0 replies      
The question of "data protection" hasn't been discussed enough here - it may well be that Linkedin has no case against HiQ, but if HiQ is scraping people's PII in the EU they are required to have the permission of the data subjects.

How this interacts with Safe Harbour I have no idea.

mpcovcd 3 days ago 0 replies      
Interesting. Does anyone know how this compares to the legal cases around startups that would scrape Craigslist public data?
inthewoods 3 days ago 0 replies      
I'm curious how a ruling in this might potentially impact Google (or not). Google is scraping those same profiles, but Linkedin clearly has no issue with that because it drives traffic to their site. But Google is also making money off of those profiles.

How can Linkedin argue that Google be allowed to scrap but other third party cannot?

makecheck 3 days ago 0 replies      
When these decisions are made, I hope they come with technical guarantees on ease of accessibility to data.

For instance, "buried in 6 layers of obfuscated XML" and "accessible in O(N^3) time" would both be implementations that are not "blocking" the data but they would still be extremely difficult to use.

mcbits 3 days ago 0 replies      
Microsoft/LinkedIn has so much more juicy and actually private data that nobody can scrape, I don't understand why they would even make a scene and tarnish their image over scraping. They know who declines connection requests from whom, when a CEO starts looking for a new job, and so on.
Show HN: A stop-motion video of an engine howacarworks.com
840 points by AlexMuir  2 days ago   188 comments top 56
alexwebb2 2 days ago 6 replies      
This is neat, but based on the title, I thought this was going to be a bit more informative about _how_ engines work, and how each subprocess contributes toward the end goal.

What I saw instead was a subset of subprocesses in isolation from each other, presented in an admittedly artistic fashion. It's impressive, and maybe the purpose is more to whet one's appetite for more information rather than be informative in itself, but that's not really what I was expecting or hoping for.

AlexMuir 2 days ago 7 replies      
It took 2,500 photos and 4 days to shoot, followed by about 8 days of photoshopping & grading.
burntwater 2 days ago 2 replies      
As a hearing-impaired person, I just wanted to thank you for clearly mentioning that it's subtitled. That shows it's more than just an afterthought, and seals the deal for me!
laurencei 2 days ago 2 replies      
IMO what is really clever about this is that it is a "sales" video - except you dont realise you are being sold to until the end, by which time you've enjoyed the video so much, the pitch at the end is reasonable.

And you've shown what the value is long before I asked myself the question "how much" - which I usually ask early in the process - but not here.

At least that is how I found it... great work.

Would be interesting to see conversion figures for something like this.

teh_klev 2 days ago 1 reply      
This was originally a "Show HN":


And this was Alex's follow-up a year on:


Very well done Alex!

noonespecial 2 days ago 2 replies      
Top notch! It looks so easy! But you forgot the part where you spend an hour banging, cursing, and blasting that one bolt with a torch because it. just. will. not. budge, only to have it snap off and realize you're going to spend tomorrow drilling it out and tapping that hole...
radiorental 2 days ago 1 reply      
Inspired by this viral video from a few years back perhaps? https://youtu.be/daVDrGsaDME
nimrody 2 days ago 2 replies      
Beautiful work!

It's nice to see something that was designed with maintainability in mind. Designed to be disassembled, repaired and re-assembled later. Impressive engineering.

So different from most consumer products sold today which never use screws and are not designed for repairing. If it breaks down you're expected to buy a new one...

inthewoods 2 days ago 1 reply      
What I found surprising about the video was that it made an engine seem, somehow, less complex and daunting. I'm sure that's a bit of an illusion created by the way the engine is taken apart (and the fact that it's not in a car and therefore you can rotate it as you need it, etc), but amazing work.
Spacemolte 2 days ago 2 replies      
Wow, that was really awesome, great work!A small piece of critique, the last part of the video was really garbled/messy? and i kept trying to focus on the car parts, but was unable to due to it jumping around etc. So that part messed a bit with my eyes.
mrspeaker 2 days ago 1 reply      
I've been meaning to play the hilarious-looking "My Summer Car" (http://www.amistech.com/msc/) recently as I have been hankering to learn about engines... perhaps it's wise to do the video course first!
catshirt 2 days ago 0 replies      
dang. this is so awesome. really makes the machine feel so much more accessible.

and your ad is one of the best i've seen since MasterClass ads in my Facebook feed. i felt like the ad was basically free content. i was learning!

ryandetzel 2 days ago 1 reply      
Wait, this course is only $20? This seems like a lot of content for $20...

Really great video too

AlexMuir 2 days ago 0 replies      
OT: Youtube hasn't tracked a single view from this being embedded on the site. Does anyone know if Youtube doesn't count embedded views?
subpixel 2 days ago 1 reply      
Kudos for sticking with this project, which has not made you a ton of money overnight, since at least 2012.

I don't mean to underplay the work involved in programming and marketing this project, but just not giving up is perhaps the hardest part of things like this.

otto_ortega 2 days ago 0 replies      
Congratulations! This is a really nice project, it seems to have the right combination between real knowledge about the car and audio-visual effects to keep people engaged.

I just subscribed to the video course and I can see the preorder offer is a no brainer, skimming through the PDF provided I can see there is enough value on it to easily make it worth the $20 by itself.

So as a suggestion: Highlight the PDF and its content on the preorder page, there is only one mention about it but it doesn't specify its contents.

tambourine_man 2 days ago 0 replies      
Congratulations, I can imagine the amount of work that went into making it.

I like to take things apart, and it made me a bit nervous, as each piece was separated, that I would never be able to put it back together :)

Dowwie 2 days ago 2 replies      
This is beautiful. Love the synthwave soundtrack :)

Where is the Reddit post of this? You're going to front page, for sure.

awongh 2 days ago 1 reply      
Very cool.

The motorcycle equivalent is this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MkHJuU01-Wk&index=43&list=PL...

I watched about 3/4 of these ^^ videos, really learned a lot about how a combustion engine works.

cdnsteve 2 days ago 0 replies      
All the visual effects starting a 2:03 nearly made me sick, literally. The actual content was great.
LeonM 2 days ago 1 reply      
Really nice work!

I did have a slight giggle when the promo at the end says you explain everything about 'modern cars', while you are working on a car introduced 27 years ago.

Of course I understand that disassembling a new car does not make financial sense, I'm not trying to be negative here.

mschuster91 2 days ago 0 replies      
That's just awesome. Back when I had a VW bus, I disassembled it and did most maintenance myself - but never down to THAT level of detail. Especially, I had to spend around 40 bucks on new screws because I misplaced the old ones (or they broke off due to old age)
martin-adams 2 days ago 0 replies      
Very nice indeed. If you liked this video, you may also like this rebuild of an engine over 11 months.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=daVDrGsaDME
creeble 2 days ago 0 replies      
Fantastic video, and timely -- just spent a few days cursing at a Mazda Z5 engine (in a 97 Protege) myself!

Really, it's a pretty great engine, but with 233k miles a little grumpy.

srikz 1 day ago 0 replies      
It reminds of the time I spent with Car Mechanic Simulator. A nice 'fun' game on Steam if you like stuff like this.

I have the 2015 version and there seems to be a new one out now (2018 version) but the reviews warn about the many bugs

dmurthy 18 hours ago 0 replies      
Wish something similar is made for an electric car since it is the future.
j-me 2 days ago 1 reply      
Very cool video! Purchased.

I'm really interested in seeing where you go with the 3D modeling. As a coder/DIY mechanic (one of many I'm sure), I'm pretty psyched by how this tech could be used.

I also want to say that I appreciate your price point. I think it's at a good point where it might be less than the potential value of the product, but attracts those who would otherwise dropout of purchase or seek other means to obtain the media.

chaostheory 2 days ago 0 replies      
I really like the parallaxed, knolled layout of a car's parts that you did for your ad for your 'Ultimate Video Course' (middle of https://www.howacarworks.com/basics/the-engine).How long did that take to finish?
jcoletti 2 days ago 0 replies      
Very cool, well-shot video. As others have said, I was more interested in a detailed explanation of the inner-workings. After finishing the video and exploring others, I found my way to the video course preorder page. $20 paid! Great concept, best of luck. Plan to start watching this weekend.
dave7 2 days ago 1 reply      
This looks awesome!

How is the course delivered? Downloadable or streaming only? Can I watch it on Linux?

kazinator 2 days ago 0 replies      
Very nice; and playful. How some of it is done is not obvious, like the pistons "taking off" out of the cylinders without the support mechanism for taking the shots being obvious.

Nice tip of the hat to Luxo Jr. at the end there.

edpichler 2 days ago 0 replies      
What a beautiful work, very satisfying to watch this introduction, as people commented, just at the end you realize it's a promotional video of the course, and not just a piece of art.
NIL8 2 days ago 0 replies      
Great job! I wish there were sites like this for more... things.
kerbalspacepro 2 days ago 0 replies      
I don't want to sound like a fake commenter, but this somehow sold me on the course concept even though the part of a car I least car(e) about is the ICE.
sharpercoder 2 days ago 0 replies      
Great video! Really enjoyed watching it. Great lighting. Towards the end, the images get flashy (don't do this please filmmakers, it makes my head hurt).
kikkoman23 2 days ago 0 replies      
Pretty cool. Learning more about cars is something I need to definitely brush up on, especially when it comes to things under the hood.
nichochar 2 days ago 0 replies      
This is impressive marketing, I purchased the class, am happy about it, AND liked the way it was marketed to me.
westmeal 2 days ago 0 replies      
The sound design was excellent! Well done.
peoplee 2 days ago 0 replies      
For someone like me who spent hours watching engine videos on youtube, this was an instant buy. Well done!
vincnetas 2 days ago 2 replies      
And the first thing i thought when seeing this: and thats why electric motor is the future.
d-roo 2 days ago 1 reply      
Really cool idea but my eyes actually hurt watching the end though and had to stop the video.
lucaspottersky 2 days ago 1 reply      
nice ad. however, the tech side doesn't seem to have received as much love.

#1 PayPal returned me to an invalid URL after finishing the payment

#2 I've paid & logged in, nevertheless the website still shows me links to "buy the course".

rootsudo 2 days ago 0 replies      
Nice! A Mazda Miata Engine!
pg1 1 day ago 1 reply      
Really awesome stuff. Thanks for you hard work!
pmarreck 2 days ago 1 reply      
The raw complexity here is astounding.

Something something electric motors are far simpler. ;)

bhudman 2 days ago 0 replies      
Wow. I imagined it took tons of patients (well - 4 days worth). Amazing.
aembleton 2 days ago 0 replies      
Just 16! I've pre-ordered, that's a bargain.
kodeninja 2 days ago 0 replies      
This looks AWESOME, @alexmuir! Preordered :)!
bitL 2 days ago 1 reply      

How did you make those flying parts? Photoshopping out the holders?

aerovistae 2 days ago 0 replies      
The foley on that video must have taken some time.
lordshiny 2 days ago 0 replies      
Was sold almost immediately. Beautiful work!
alkz 2 days ago 0 replies      
shut up and take my money! :)
TheOtherHobbes 2 days ago 0 replies      
Wow. That was superb.
du_bing 2 days ago 0 replies      
Real cool!
perilunar 2 days ago 0 replies      
matt_wulfeck 2 days ago 3 replies      
Very cool. It's amazing how complex the combustion engine seems, especially compared to an electric motor. No wonder cars have a limited lifetime of typically some 150-200k miles.

It's going to be really interesting to our purchasing and maintenance patterns for EVs.

SVG can do that? slides.com
635 points by funspectre  2 days ago   194 comments top 33
mikekchar 1 day ago 4 replies      
One of funnest projects I worked on at Corel was called "Smart Graphics Studio" (I'm guessing most of the people who worked on it also read HN, so "Hi!"). It was an absolutely stupid idea: Some insane PGM read that XSLT could transform any XML into any other XML. Then they read that SVG was XML. They put 2 and 2 together and got a billion: You could draw a picture in SVG and then modify it intelligently (through XSLT) using some XML data set.

Of course the opposite is actually a brilliant idea (at least at a time when XML was still popular): Take an XML dataset and visualise it in SVG using XSLT transformations (well... yeah... doing it all in XSLT is still insane, but you get the idea).

Anyway, we built a very high performance SVG viewer (for the time, anyway) from scratch. We built an SVG/Javascript widget library. We built an incredibly impressive data manipulation library in XSLT (ok... yeah... insane).

Fun times. And all nearly 20 years ago. It really was ahead of its time. Of course the end finally had to come. The PGMs sold this thing to a certain aviation company with the promise that it would automatically build circuit diagrams from their XML chipset database (because.... XSLT!)

When Vector took over Corel, they very rightly dropped our division like a hot potato (we had something like 3 PGMs per developer). It was quite unfortunate because the developers and QA people I worked with there were some of the best I've every had the pleasure of working with. I've always waited for something to come of SVG and really wish we had been able to release something that wasn't crazy so that people could see what the potential was.

Edit: In my old age I'm losing track of time. It seems that Vector acquired Corel in 2003, so that's only 15 years ago :-)

starmole 2 days ago 9 replies      
This showcases what's wrong with SVG: It does way too much!

To be useful as a vector image format, there should be strict rules (and less cruft). Why is there no libsvg like libjpeg or libpng? Why have interaction as part of an image format?

SVG lives in an uncanny valley between jpeg and flash/js.

I think there is still a big need for a real vector interchange and display format. Right now people pick a "good" subset of SVG. Or even fallback to fonts.

My dream vector format:

- Pixel perfect across implementations at 50%,100%,200% renderings. At least grid aligned lines.

- Lossless roundtrip across apps. Start in Illustrator, edit parts in Inkscape, other parts in Animate, untouched things stay exactly the same.

- Standard zero dependency C reference implementation: Stream in, bitmap out.

vturner 2 days ago 3 replies      
It's always been a curiosity of mine why SVG didn't get more attention from browsers through the years to solve the performance issues. It's open source, cross platform, "dynamic" in a sense AKA no compiling needed, light weight, supports shapes and text, offers immediate responsiveness, etc. Why the lack of love while we pour ever increasing energy into mangling HTML and CSS and every six months a new JS framework/module/whatever to try to make it work?
polymeris 2 days ago 9 replies      
SVG works so fantastically well with React -- it's just part of the DOM, after all. Unless there are performance concerns, that reason alone would make me choose it over Canvas every time.

Shameless plug, one of my first experiments with SVG+react (+cljs): https://polymeris.github.io/carlos/ Done in one day, without knowing the tech.

jankovicsandras 1 day ago 1 reply      
Shameless plug:

ImageTracer is a simple raster image tracer and vectorizer that outputs SVG, 100% free, Public Domain.

Available in JavaScript (works both in the browser and with Node.js), "desktop" Java and "Android" Java:




byron_fast 2 days ago 3 replies      
It's nice that we've got the most valuable part of Flash: a vector rendering engine. I do miss Flash's editor for these types of content, though.
jordache 2 days ago 4 replies      
SVG has the opposite performance profile of Canvas.

SVG hits a performance ceiling as number of elements increases.Canvas, since it's rasterized image can handle a rasterized representation of millions of SVG elements.

However as Canvas dimension increase, it will hit a performance ceiling.

Jack000 2 days ago 0 replies      
coming soon, full SVG websites featuring:

- loading bar until website is fully loaded

- animated buttons that bounce and flash

- full screen 2 second transitions from page to page

- all in one page, no urls!

feels like 2010 again : ]

kevinb7 2 days ago 1 reply      
While SVG can do a lot, there are certain things that it isn't optimized for. In particular animating lots of shapes simultaneously. The animation of the globe exploding into a bunch of triangles from the slides is a good (bad?) example of this. Also, there can also be inconsistencies is in the rendering of SVGs between browsers.
noonespecial 2 days ago 5 replies      
I use svg all the time to make tiny web interfaces for embedded systems. When the entire web app has to fit in 350k, you don't have space for gif's or jpg's.
pier25 2 days ago 1 reply      
SVG is good as long as it's not abused.

All the kb saving are meaningless with performance issues caused by lots of nodes, gradients, etc.

It's great for responsive icons, but for a full interactive UI with illustrations bitmaps are the better choice IMO unless you really need dynamic scaling.

Just because you can do it doesn't mean you should.

Robotbeat 1 day ago 1 reply      
I've used SVG to design custom PCBs using traces as magnetic coils, something that, surprisingly, doesn't have a good industrial software package for. Everything in PCB design software is geared toward routing wires conveniently between components, but if you try to actually use the wires as actual components, it's almost impossible to freely design. And even regular PCB design software feels almost unchanged since the 1980s or 1990s. Incredibly clunky.

Here's a good Hackaday article on converting SVG to PCB file formats:http://hackaday.com/2016/01/28/beautiful-and-bizarre-boards/PCBModE is one package I tried for a while:http://pcbmode.com/Boldport uses this toolchain to make beautiful PCBs relying heavily on SVG: https://www.boldport.com/

I had a hard time with all these packages, however, and ended up just hacking it together by hand with python code and outputting in KiCAD format. I wasn't even able to get KiCAD to read/render it properly (too many weird elements), but since OSH Park (where I got my PCBs from) takes KiCAD format directly and gives you a preview, that all worked fine, and when I ordered my PCBs, they arrived in working condition just fine the first time.


So yeah, SVG can do a lot, including make funky PCBs.

khanhkid 2 days ago 0 replies      
It's awesome. last time, I using SVG to import image to pdf files (using TCPDF). The quality is clearly & beautiful. Now, Thank you for your introduction about another things SVG can do on the website.
esaym 2 days ago 0 replies      
Her talk on the topic at vueconf was pretty good too https://youtu.be/gJDyhmL9O_E
oelmekki 1 day ago 1 reply      
I wonder if we should encourage print designers to switch to svg (that is, if they don't already... it's not a world I know much).

I have in mind all those concerts or various events' png/jpeg files that are dropped on the web here and there. If they were svg files, it would be made easier for search engines to index their content.

Even without that, svg totally rocks. About a decade ago, I played with SVGWeb and made a showcase carousel presenting screenshots of projets with automated reflection on them (like it was common back then, a reverse image on bottom of actual image with a gradient from transparency to white to make an effect like if the ground was a mirror). I just had to upload a plain screenshot and everything was automated, I was mind blown, and surprised we seemed to go the canvas way instead (not so much, in retrospect).

Nowadays, I often make my icons as svg react components. It makes it so much easier to change their color or saturation on hover, this is very cool. We probably still have a long way to go to exploit all of svg potential.

baybal2 2 days ago 2 replies      
It has been almost 12 years, and we still don't have working word wrap with svg
vladdanilov 1 day ago 0 replies      
The SVGO-GUI has not been updated since 2015. I added out-of-the-box SVG optimization to my Optimage [1]. Fun fact: Node.js binary can be just 3MB compressed. ImageOptim [2] handles SVGs as well if Node.js is installed.

The transparent JPEG-in-SVG files can also be made with nothing but ImageMagick and Bash [3].

[1] http://getoptimage.com

[2] https://imageoptim.com/mac

[3] https://github.com/vmdanilov/svgize

giancarlostoro 1 day ago 2 replies      
Have not seen anyone mention it, but does it make sense to do Web Game development using SVG's with JavaScript? Has anyone tried this? Is it as fun as these slides make it seem or are there downsides to that approach?
kayamon 1 day ago 3 replies      
By "SVG can do that?", it appears they actually just meant "JavaScript can do that?", as all the cool animations and stuff are all just JS-driven.

Unless I misread it?

inthewoods 2 days ago 2 replies      
We attempted to do a complex animation in SVG and the primary complaint was that it killed the browser in terms of CPU and memory usage. Are we doing something wrong?
sr3d 1 day ago 0 replies      
This is a very inspirational presentation. I'm blown away. SVG can be the solution our next wave of interaction now that Flash has almost completely died.
DylanBohlender 1 day ago 1 reply      
This talk was one of the highlights of Develop Denver 2017 for me. Glad to see it getting some more traction.
nimish 2 days ago 2 replies      
I pray for screen readers.
flamedoge 2 days ago 0 replies      
Very cool. SVGs can be very sensible choice for certain applications that canvas doesn't cover well.
banhfun 2 days ago 1 reply      
Ok great now that we know SVG is awesome, where do we begin learning how to use it like a pro?
mtea 1 day ago 0 replies      
Welp, time to learn SVG! So much more functionality than CSS. Gorgeous examples. I wonder if it's much slower to load though?
mamcx 2 days ago 1 reply      
So, how crazy to use SVG for a cross-platform UI?
Brian_K_White 2 days ago 3 replies      
Wow, svg sits there and does mostly nothing on my phone. Just like Flash! Can't pinch to zoom to read the text that was too small, just like Flash! Half the supposedly neat interactive gewgaws like "turn this gear" didn't react to any presses or gestures at all. Just like Flash!
intellix 1 day ago 0 replies      
Cool, but they're still not really supported by Safari
vbuwivbiu 1 day ago 0 replies      
Shame Flexbox can't be used with SVG
11235813213455 1 day ago 0 replies      
I'm trying to rewrite the good plugins of svgo into https://github.com/caub/svgz, something more flexible based on jsdom
geekit 2 days ago 1 reply      
b0rsuk 1 day ago 1 reply      
Flash has the "advantage" that it's used almost exclusively for advertisments. Mostly pretentious people (artists, photographers etc) have websites made of flash. So, by turning off Flash, you block the bulk of annoying ads. And you lose little by disabling Flash.

Would the same be true for SVG ? Would it be used mostly for ads, too ? Or even, can you selectively block only the SVG used for advertisments ?

Essential Phone, available now essential.com
643 points by Garbage  12 hours ago   530 comments top 7
zanny 3 hours ago 6 replies      
Since no one else has, I'll take the piss out of this "hollier than thou" bullshit.

> Devices are your personal property. We wont force you to have anything you dont want.

Devices are your personal property. The SoC is still a proprietary trade secret, the baseband is still spying on you for the NSA, the GPU is still a closed blob piece of shit. No mainline driver support, bootloader is closed source, firmware is closed source. We own this phone, you don't.

> We will always play well with others. Closed ecosystems are divisive and outdated.


> Devices shouldnt become outdated every year. They should evolve with you.

Devices become outdated because shitty vendors refuse to open source and mainline drivers for their components.

> Technology should assist you so that you can get on with enjoying life.

Technology should be trustable, and a device where you cannot tell if or when the microphone and/or camera are recording and being remotely accessed is anything but.

Not wanting to single Essential out too much here - every vendor goes on and on about how great this phone is for you, while holding as much of a vice grip over the operation of the device as possible to make sure you need to buy another one as soon as possible through planned obsolescence. It is just the stick up the ass language announcements like these use is really infuriating when the people making them know full well how much they are screwing you over.

The first actually open platform phone is the one that will have longevity. The rest are snake oil about how good they will take of you because you can't take care of yourself with your own software that you can trust.

foobaw 11 hours ago 4 replies      
As someone who worked in a large OEM company releasing tons of smartphones, I'm actually impressed it only took 100 people to getting this out. I presume there was an incredible amount of sleepless nights, as this is no easy task.

To be fair though, Sprint is one of the easier carriers to work with after T-Mobile. I can't imagine them releasing a phone on AT&T or Verizon, as their process is grueling. I guess since they're selling an unlockcked version of their phone, it doesn't really matter to power users. However, most sales for smartphones are from contracts sold directly from carriers so it'll be interesting to see how they'll do in the market with their current strategy (similar to One Plus One).

Props to them though. It's not just about carrier certification. Releasing a smartphone is a long complex process. Some engineers at Sprint were briefly talking about how great the phone was, so I have high hopes.

Hasz 8 hours ago 7 replies      
You want fixable and well designed, long software updates, and a good price?

Buy an (old) iPhone.

I've got a 5S -- still perfectly fast for what I use it for (email, youtube, brokerage account, general internet, some small games), and is getting OS updates and security patches until IOS11. It's $120 on eBay; a new screen can be had for $13, a new battery for $11. it's solidly designed and there's a gigantic field of accessories and apps.

Maybe titanium and no bezels are worth a price premium, but there's no way it's worth a 5x increase in price.

ariofrio 8 hours ago 6 replies      
Give me software updates for 7+ years, then we'll talk about buying your $700 phone. Lasting hardware means nothing without lasting software.

In the meanwhile, I'll keep buying $120 phones (Moto G4 with Amazon Ads FTW) and keeping them for ~2 years until they break or software updates stop. Even though as a Catholic (Laudato Si, Rerum Novarum) it kills me to waste all those materials every couple of years and be part of the environmental degradation of our planet.

git-pull 11 hours ago 17 replies      
I admire the gumption of making a new phone.

But controlled obsolescence kills me. The real feature that improves in phones the past few years for me is the software and apps, not the hardware.

My wishlist:

- Give me a lighter, snappier OS. Not something clunkier and slower and uses more ram, gpu/cpu (aka battery life).

- Actually support updates to the things for longer than 2-3 years.

- (Not related to this phone) Use stock android, unless you're removing bloat. Why? Because inevitably there's going to be apps. What I want is a nice flat surface that includes wifi, bluetooth, and nice API's and permissions for those apps to plug into.

- The biggest feature you can give me on a phone? Battery life, Replaceable battery, Data/Cell reception, Speaker/Microphone quality.

- SIM card that's easy to get out.

- Actually, Dual SIM's.

- Support for carriers globally.

- And physical keyboards. Something for SSH'ing with.

gnicholas 10 hours ago 0 replies      
> Every year, like clockwork, manufacturers make design tweaks and launch new features and products that work well if you choose to stay in their ecosystem. You buy their phone, TV, speaker, and fridge with the promise of simplicity, but more and more often, this is a way to force loyalty.

Good thing they're not doing that!

> We also plan to release new wireless accessories (like our snap-on 360 Camera) every few months. That schedule ensures that the latest technology will always be in the palm of your hand without having to replace your phone. These accessories will also work with other products like Essential Home.

Spoke too soon.

lolsal 11 hours ago 8 replies      
> Your phone is your personal property. Its a public expression of who you are and what you stand for.

No, it's really not. It's literally just a tool I use for communication.

Peanut allergy cured in majority of children in immunotherapy trial theguardian.com
434 points by DanBC  19 hours ago   159 comments top 25
hanklazard 9 hours ago 1 reply      
Physician-scientist here. My graduate work was in an immunology lab. Just wanted to clear up some confusion I've seen in multiple posts.

While both peanut allergy and celiac disease involve pathogenic immune responses, they represent very different types of problems and this study's results do not suggest any relevance to celiac.

The peanut allergies that they are referring to in this study are one of the most striking examples of what's known as a Type I hypersensitivity (IgE-mediated/anaphylaxis). In this type of reaction, high levels of IgE, a class of antibody, generated toward a specific antigen become loaded onto mast cells and on re-exposure, cause mast cell degranulation and subsequent smooth muscle contraction. For this reason, anaphylactic responses frequently involve closing of the airway, nausea/vomiting, and other dysregulations of smooth muscle activation and require a strong adrenurgic agonist like epinephrine to counteract this activation.

Celiac pathogenesis is not a Type I hypersensitivity. To my knowledge, the exact mechanism of pathogenesis is not known, but it is likely a combination of Type III (antibody-mediated) and Type IV (T-cell mediated) hypersenitivities.

Anyway, I'm not trying to ruin anyone's hope here, but this study has no relevance for celiac. What this has shown is that there is the potential for food allergies to be systematically eliminated with long-term increasing exposure to the problematic antigen, in this case, peanut antigen. This has been done for some time with other, less aggressive types of IgE-mediated conditions like dog and cat dander allergies. So in that way, it's not all that surprising of a result, but I'm certainly glad to see that this was able to be done safely. This is really great news for the millions of people out there with anaphylactic food allergies.

All that being said, I do hope that celiac can be managed more effectively with immune-modulatory (or other) treatments in the future and my sympathies go out to those who have been affected by this horrible disease.

S_A_P 15 hours ago 7 replies      
My daughter has Celiac disease. It was diagnosed at age 4 when her growth chart showed she did not gain a single pound and grew " from age 3-4. We did a biopsy of her small intestine and it was completely smooth. (Should be almost like velvet) Herblood levels also showed high sensitivity to gluten. We have her on a strict gluten free diet and she has since followed the growth chart perfectly. However she is sensitive enough that she can not eat gluten free food that has been prepared on the same grill/pan/cook or prep surface as food containing gluten. She suffers from nausea and diarrhea when cross contamination occurs. What this means is that I have to cook every meal she eats and bring it with us if we go to restaurants. We live in probably the best time ever for gluten free foods, but this is still a significant hardship for her. She is 7 now and I worry about as she gets older and wants to hang with friends/date/college. Unless things change she cannot just go grab food at a restaurant. Some restaurants have a gluten free protocol (PF changs comes to mind) but this is not common. From what I've read gut bacteria could be a contributor to gluten intolerance. I really hope studies like the peanut allergy encourage other dietary studies and immunotherapy becomes more common. Her having celiac disease is not the end of the world but her quality of life would change drastically if she didn't have to worry about that.
gehwartzen 13 hours ago 3 replies      
The AAP also recently changed its guidelines for introducing peanuts to babies based on a study [1] showing a pretty dramatic decline in the development of the allergy with early exposure vs total avoidance.


rhexs 15 hours ago 4 replies      
Does anyone know the history of why allergists assumed this just wouldn't work for decades? I'm assuming they initially tried this at the dawn of the allergist specialization but gave up due to bad practices / deaths?

I only ask because it seemed to have been general knowledge that this was impossible / couldn't be done up until recently. As a outsider looking it, it seems quite obvious, but that's just due to naivete.

jwineinger 16 hours ago 3 replies      
I'm a parent of a 4-year old with a peanut allergy. We've been told that anywhere from 18-25% of kids with it "outgrow" the allergy by age 5. I've been looking into private practice oral immunotherapy (OIT) recently, which this protocol seems to be a variant of (adding the bacteria). My understanding is that you start with a low dose and then gradually increase over months until you're eating whole peanuts (4-12 of them) in the morning and evening as a maintenance dose. From what I've found, this can work for many types of food allergies and for all ages and all sensitivities.
herewegohawks 8 hours ago 0 replies      
Very severe peanut allergy here - honestly go away with this crap of comparing your gluten allergy. I have to carry an epipen and worry about risking my life when I so much as eat food that was on the same table as baked goods that MIGHT have traces of peanut butter.
justinc-md 1 hour ago 0 replies      
If you're in the bay area and considering OIT, a friend of mine is opening a private practice offering only OIT [0], starting next Wednesday in Redwood City. She is currently a full-time clinician at the Sean N. Parker Center for Allergy and Asthma Research at Stanford University.

Her clinic is relatively unique, in that it will be offering multi-allergen rapid desensitization. Using this procedure, a person can be desensitized to multiple allergens simultaneously, in as little as three months. She can treat milk, egg, wheat, soy, peanut, tree nut, fish, and shellfish allergies.

[0]: http://wmboit.com

0xbear 9 hours ago 1 reply      
True story: in Russia (and I can only assume other Eastern European countries) peanut allergy is so rare that I've never even heard of it until I emigrated. Pollen allergy is about the same, ragweed pollen allergy can be really bad too. But not peanut allergy.
sageikosa 18 hours ago 4 replies      
When in her teens, my daughter developed a peanut allergy during her time in drum corps such that it was confirmed with skin patch tests and she had to carry an epi-pen. After about a year it just went away and she's back to "normal".
tmaly 11 hours ago 0 replies      
My daughter is allergic to eggs, salmon, and fish in that similar family. Having vegan options in this modern day has been a real help.

I started my food side project https://bestfoodnearme.com with the idea in mind that I can catalog dishes at restaurants based on allergies, gluten free etc. Allergic reactions are a very scary thing especially with small children.

manmal 16 hours ago 3 replies      
Can we derive that Lactobacillus rhamnosus could reduce all kinds of allergies when taken, even without adding proteins that you are allergic to?
grb423 12 hours ago 1 reply      
When I was a kid I never heard of peanut allergies. What happened? Did children's guts change? Did peanuts?
nsxwolf 12 hours ago 0 replies      
This seems so obvious, and I've been hearing about this approach for years and years. Yet it still feels like 20 years from now, this will still not be a treatment, and kids classrooms will still be "nut free", and more and more kids will be carrying around epi-pens which will still cost a fortune.
vanattab 17 hours ago 4 replies      
Yumm... I can't wait for the shellfish version! I would love to try shrimp again and find out what all the fuss is about with lobster.
matt_wulfeck 11 hours ago 1 reply      
What's amazing to me is that they used to recommend you don't give children any peanuts until a specific age, but then they learned that easily exposure actually dramatically decreases the chance of developing an allergy.

I feel like I have to throw away almost all advice they give us about kids these days. These types of things do a lot to undermine the advice of doctors.

zeapo 13 hours ago 0 replies      
A previous article (2015) talked about the same study http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-01-28/probiotics-offer-hope-...
cst 13 hours ago 2 replies      
48 children were enrolled in the trial. Half of them were given the treatment and half the placebo, leaving 24 children in each group. Statistical significance testing is reported in the article and seems fairly robust, but this is too small a sample size to be fully confident in the results.
alfon 12 hours ago 0 replies      
6d6b73 16 hours ago 0 replies      
I wonder if they had a control group taking only the bacteria, and another one taking only peanut proteins. If not, why did they decide on this combination?
melling 17 hours ago 0 replies      
Will this work in adults too?
matt_heimer 9 hours ago 0 replies      
Someone watched the Princess Bride - I spent the last few years building up an immunity to peanut powder.
jordache 13 hours ago 0 replies      
Is nut allergy a rising issue for other parts of the world?
waterhouse 18 hours ago 4 replies      
Could this be made to work on allergies in general? The article suggests it could at least be used for food allergies in general.
Tade0 17 hours ago 2 replies      
Interesting how this bacteria is a common ingredient in yogurt.
I Bought a Book About the Internet from 1994 and None of the Links Worked vice.com
457 points by slyall  2 days ago   316 comments top 22
whatever_dude 2 days ago 4 replies      
I've had a similar problem. In updating my portfolio site recently, I noticed a vast majority of links were dead. Not just live projects published maybe 3 years or more ago (I expect those to die). But also links to articles and mentions from barely one year ago, or links to award sites, and the like. With a site listing projects going back ~15 years, one can imagine how bad things were.

I had to end up creating a link component that would automatically link to an archive.org version of the link on every URL if I marked as "dead". It was so prevalent it had to be automated like that.

Another reason why I've been contributing $100/year to the Internet Archive for the past 3 years and will continue to do so. They're doing some often unsung but important work.

CharlesDodgson 2 days ago 6 replies      
I miss the optimism of the early web, when you could create a simple web page, join a web ring and going online was an event.It's richer and deeper now, but the rawness and simpleness of it all was enjoyable and novel.
ChrisSD 2 days ago 15 replies      
Related to this, I had trouble finding examples of pre 1996 web design. The internet archive has a lot from 1997 onwards. The oldest live examples of sites from that era, that I know of are:




The BBC also donated its Networking Club to the Internet Archive: https://archive.org/details/bbcnc.org.uk-19950301

kutkloon7 2 days ago 3 replies      
This is a very important reason why books, in general, contain better information that websites. On websites, people care a lot less about the correctness of the information. You can just update stuff later (of course, this doesn't always happen).

Also, sites are a very volatile medium. I often bookmark pages with interesting information to read later, and it inevitably happens once in a while that a site went down and I just can't find the information anymore.

jacquesm 2 days ago 4 replies      
Linkrot is a real problem. Especially for those sites that disappear before the archive can get to them.

On another note, the more dynamic the web becomes the harder it will be to archive so if you think that the 1994 content is a problem wait until you live in 2040 and you want to read some pages from 2017.

amelius 2 days ago 3 replies      
Solution: https://ipfs.io

> The average lifespan of a web page is 100 days. Remember GeoCities? The web doesn't anymore. It's not good enough for the primary medium of our era to be so fragile.

> IPFS provides historic versioning (like git) and makes it simple to set up resilient networks for mirroring of data.

indescions_2017 2 days ago 1 reply      
See also: Best of the Web '94 Awards. Presented at the First International Conference on the World-Wide Web, Geneva, Switzerland, May 1994.


What's cool isn't how fast some of these technologies become obsolete, such as various Java applets and cgi-bin connected webcams. It's the static content that can survive until the end of time.

Like Nicolas Pioch's Web Museum. Bienvenue!


mfoy_ 2 days ago 3 replies      
A similarly really annoying thing is when you find old technet articles, stack overflow questions, or blog posts that seem potentially really useful, but that have broken images, broken links, etc... so the content (possibly extremely useful at the time) is completely useless now.

It really stresses the importance of directly quoting / paraphrasing the content you want in your plain text, and not relying on external resources for posterity.

drewg123 2 days ago 2 replies      
> [The Rolling Stones] actually streamed a concert on the platform in November of that year, using an online provider named MBone for some reason..

The MBone was not a "provider", it was an IP multicast network. This was the only way to efficiently stream video content to thousands of simultaneous clients before the advent of CDNs. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mbone

sjclemmy 2 days ago 2 replies      
I've got a book about javascript from 1995. It mentions closure once and says something like "... but you'll never need to use that feature of the language."

How I laughed.

neoCrimeLabs 2 days ago 1 reply      
Somewhat Unrelated.

I noticed that the wayback machine no longer lists historical sites if the latest/last revision of robots.txt denies access. Has anyone else experienced this?

In the late-90's I helped build one of the first fortune-500 e-commerce web sites. The website was shutdown years ago, but it view viewable on the wayback machine as recently as a year ago. The company in question put a deny-all robots.txt on the domain, and now none of the history is viewable.

It's a shame -- used to use that website (and an easteregg with my name on it) as proof of experience.

interfixus 2 days ago 1 reply      
I read an internet article from 2017 and none of the stuff worked without access to all sorts of third party scripts and crap.
garethsprice 2 days ago 4 replies      
I Bought a Book of Restaurant Recommendations from 1957 and None of them would Serve Me Dinner Any More
umanwizard 2 days ago 0 replies      
My uncle Pat wrote this book (and multiple others in the same series). I'm amazed Vice is talking about it over twenty years later and I'm sure he will be too once I show him the link!

I had lots of fun reading them as an Internet-addicted kid -- but several of the links were dead even before it was officially published.

panglott 2 days ago 2 replies      
"It was possible to get on a text-based version of the internet for free in many areas, using only a modem and a phone line. An entire section of Free $tuff From the Internet offers up a lengthy list of free-nets, grassroots phone systems that essentially allowed for free access to text-based online resources."

Makes me want to try to read a Markdown-only Internet browser, which treats native Markdown documents as the only kind of Web page.

jedberg 2 days ago 2 replies      
I owned (and still do own) this book! I would spend many hours as a teenager going through the links and accessing all the cool stuff in the book. This really brings back memories!

And yes, the way I got on the internet in those days was to dial into a public Sprintlink number, then telnet to a card catalog terminal in the Stanford library, and then send the telnet "Break" command at exactly the right time to break out of the card catalog program and have unfettered internet access. Good times.

memracom 2 days ago 0 replies      
Did you try looking them up at archive.org? I expect that many of them will work there.

The web is ephemeral unless somebody archives it. Many companies offer an archive service for your sites for a fee, and archive.org does it to provide a historical record,

Havoc 2 days ago 0 replies      
Yup. Recently promised a colleague a pdf. I knew what I was looking for, who wrote it and and which site it was on (regional site of my employer). It even featured highly on google (showed up on related searches).

Zilch. Nada...couldn't find it anymore. Gone. Something I had easily chanced upon before I know couldn't find with directed searching. They must have restructured their site.

komali2 2 days ago 2 replies      
The article indicates that the "free" stuff on the internet was hidden away in weird places - ftp servers and the like. No google to find it for you, the only way was by word of mouth, or I guess via published book.

Answers a question I always had about "Snow Crash" by Neal Stephenson. The main character, Hiro Protagonist (I still giggle at that name), sometimes did work as a kind of data wrangler - "gathering intel and selling it to the CIC, the for-profit organization that evolved from the CIA's merger with the Library of Congress" (Wikipedia).

I always wondered what made that feasible as a sort of profit model, and I guess now I know - that was the state of the internet in 1992, when the book was published. Seems like a way cooler time period for Cyberpunk stuff, I'm almost sad I missed it :(

peterwwillis 2 days ago 4 replies      
Man, I really miss FTP. I remember when you would just FTP to the site you were using and grab a binary from their /pub/. Mirrors were plentiful, and FXP could distribute files without needing a shell on a file server.
littleweep 2 days ago 5 replies      
I mean, this isn't all that surprising. Not unlike buying a twenty-year-old visitor's guide to a city and finding that a number of the shops and restaurants have closed, the stadiums have different names, etc.
usaphp 2 days ago 1 reply      
Well if you purchase a yellow book from 1994 I doubt you will find many businesses listed there to still exist and show correct phone numbers...
Andrew Ng is raising a $150M AI Fund techcrunch.com
461 points by Tenoke  1 day ago   146 comments top 16
cr0sh 1 day ago 7 replies      
I look at announcements like this, and past ones about Ng, and I always marvel at how things have gone since I took and completed his 2011 ML Class...

That was one helluva course, challenging and interesting, and fun all at the same time (and so much "concretely" - lol).

From what I understand, that course is still available thru Coursera (which Ng booted up after the ML Class experiment; Udacity was Thrun's contribution after his and Norvig's AI Class, which ran at the same time in 2011).

KasianFranks 1 day ago 4 replies      
"Many of these funds are putting time and resources into securing data sets" - this is key.
beambot 1 day ago 0 replies      
Makes sense. As one of the most public personas in AI, he probably gets pitched frequently by AI startups. Might as well let someone else bankroll his dealflow while collecting 2% annual management fees and participate in the upside via carry a decade later.
tabeth 1 day ago 5 replies      
I'm curious to the opinions of people here on companies collecting data to build data sets vs. privacy.
valgor 1 day ago 1 reply      
>Ng told me that his personal goal is to help bring about an AI-powered society.

Anyone have links to interviews or information on Ng's vision? I'd love to hear the details.

fiatjaf 1 day ago 4 replies      
If he had called it AICOIN he could have raised much more.
ryanSrich 1 day ago 2 replies      
Slight side topic: Has anyone gone through the new deeplearning.ai track on Coursera yet? Wondering how difficult it is for someone that can write code, but never had any formal academic training in CS.
wyldfire 1 day ago 3 replies      
Aside: how do you pronounce his surname?
sandGorgon 1 day ago 2 replies      
> Many of these funds are putting time and resources into securing data sets, technical mentors and advanced simulation tools to support the unique needs of AI startups

What are "advanced simulation tools" ? something like https://github.com/marcotcr/lime ?

Quintus_ 1 day ago 3 replies      
Is it likely that I (and other Andrew Ng 'fans') will be able to buy stock in his company?
justboxing 1 day ago 1 reply      
Is AI the new Social?
panabee 1 day ago 0 replies      
one of the best ways to monetize education is with student investments instead of student payments. YC is doing this with startup education.
Jdam 1 day ago 0 replies      
Lol, even Filecoin outraised that Fund
PopsiclePete 1 day ago 1 reply      
"During an earlier conversation, Ng told me that his personal goal is to help bring about an AI-powered society."

So is this Elon Musk's arch-nemesis?

SoMisanthrope 1 day ago 0 replies      
Go, Andrew, go!!!
ktta 1 day ago 1 reply      
Offtopic, but this amp page is the cleanest page I've ever seen.

I would love to just use the amp version for all TechCrunch pages. Anyone in the mood to make a chrome extension? (I'm on desktop, and the results are still clean without adblocker)

Gates Makes Largest Donation Since 2000 with $4.6B Pledge bloomberg.com
446 points by adventured  2 days ago   282 comments top 21
braydenm 2 days ago 6 replies      
Although there are many cynics, it's quite remarkable the impact on the world donations can have. Here's what their foundation has actually been doing with the money: https://www.gatesfoundation.org/Who-We-Are/Resources-and-Med...

I wouldn't be surprised if private donations will eventually be responsible for the eradication of Malaria (1000 deaths daily, much more suffering and cost to society).

If you're in tech you're likely to be in a great position to create value beyond your company. For example, donating equity from your startup or a fraction of your income to the charities that can prove they are having the most cost effective impact on the world:https://founderspledge.com/https://www.givingwhatwecan.org/pledge/

SEJeff 2 days ago 5 replies      
I'm surprised that people are asking how / why he is giving money away and no one mentioned his Giving Pledge:


Bill Gates and Warren Buffet pledged to give half of their net worth away during their life or death to charity. They're practicing what they preach.

pmoriarty 2 days ago 3 replies      
A different view on Gates' charity work: [1]

Some highlights:

"The first question concerns accountability... The Foundation is the main player in several global health partnerships and one of the single largest donors to the WHO. This gives it considerable leverage in shaping health policy priorities and intellectual norms..."

"Depending on what side of bed Gates gets out of in the morning, he remarks, it can shift the terrain of global health..."

"Its not a democracy. Its not even a constitutional monarchy. Its about what Bill and Melinda want..."

"In 2008 the WHOs head of malaria research, Aarata Kochi, accused a Gates Foundation cartel of suppressing diversity of scientific opinion, claiming the organization was accountable to no-one other than itself."

"As Tido von Schoen Angerer, Executive Director of the Access Campaign at Mdecins Sans Frontires, explains, The Foundation wants the private sector to do more on global health, and sets up partnerships with the private sector involved in governance. As these institutions are clearly also trying to influence policymaking, there are huge conflicts of interests... the companies should not play a role in setting the rules of the game."

"The Foundation itself has employed numerous former Big Pharma figures, leading to accusations of industry bias..."

"Research by Devi Sridhar at Oxford University warns that philanthropic interventions are radically skewing public health programmes towards issues of the greatest concern to wealthy donors. Issues, she writes, which are not necessarily top priority for people in the recipient country."

More in the article...


dopamean 2 days ago 2 replies      
Pledging to give away so much of your wealth has interesting side benefits. You get to keep your money out of the hands of the government and if you're donating to your own charity then you also get to keep your family in control of the money.

I definitely don't mean to diminish the contribution of the Gates Foundation though. I often hear that they're one of the good ones.

brianbreslin 2 days ago 2 replies      
So what is his net worth made up of if he's donated all but 1.5% of his MSFT stock? His remaining MSFT stock is worth about $8B. What's the rest of his $82B made up of?

- Edit- Nevermind, found it on here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cascade_Investment

alexandercrohde 2 days ago 0 replies      
Hooray for Bill. When I was young the joke was how he was a crazy man trying to monopolize/take over the world. Seems ironically he may be the single man who has given the most to the world.

Hopefully other billionaires can take inspiration from him and recognize that helping the species is a more fulfilling game than "How many 0s in my net worth."

dalbasal 2 days ago 1 reply      
No mention of what project s the funds are going towards.

There have been some good words from the foundation regarding the (health, primarily I believe) programs in Tanzania. I wonder if this is towards scaling those projects.

Anyone have the scoop?

escot 2 days ago 1 reply      
> Gates remains the richest person on earth after the donation with a fortune the Bloomberg Billionaires Index valued at $86 billion as of 10:40 a.m. Tuesday in New York. His donation once again puts Amazon.com Inc. founder Jeff Bezos close to the top spot, with a net worth of $84.5 billion.

Keeping a bit of wiggle room.

zitterbewegung 2 days ago 4 replies      
I am not sure if I recall correctly but wasnt there a reason where gates wouldnt donate all of his wealth at once and needed to do it in stages ?

Also, maybe they cant utilize all that cash at once. Therefore it would be best to be illiquid until you need the liquidity.

2_listerine_pls 2 days ago 7 replies      
He is donating it to The Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation, which is controlled by himself. Isn't it just a different form of ownership?
grandalf 2 days ago 3 replies      
I have a lot more respect for someone like Elon Musk who invests his money back into new ideas than someone who simply gives most of it away to charity.

Malaria, low literacy rates, etc., are the byproducts of failed political systems and corruption.

Musk's impact on electric vehicle technology will drain a great deal of despotism from the middle east as dependence on oil wanes, far more effectively than any philanthropic contribution he might have made would have.

There are a number of technologies that can drastically change the dynamic between the elites (officials) and everyone else worldwide. Our most gifted thinkers and entrepreneurs should be inventing the next printing press or cotton gin, not attending charity functions.

downandout 2 days ago 1 reply      
Can anyone explain how he only owns 1.3% of Microsoft now, and yet is worth $86 billion? Almost all of his net worth came from Microsoft shares. Based upon the MSFT market cap of $561 billion, he is only worth about $7.3 billion.

What accounts for this monstrous difference? He has cashed some out over the years, but not ~$80 billion worth.

kareldonk 2 days ago 1 reply      
When you've hoarded so much cash and denied others a better life, it's easy to 'donate' like this.
peteretep 1 day ago 0 replies      
I'd love to see the creation of more trusts, such as the one that funds The Guardian, the one that funds The Economist, etc.
nepotism2018 2 days ago 0 replies      
I hope it won't make the news like the money raised for Grenfell Tower Fire survivors
freddealmeida 2 days ago 0 replies      
Is there any data on what he has given in actual dollars from his pledge to this one?
joeblow9999 2 days ago 0 replies      
Don't forget that Zuck has also pledged 99% of his wealth.
gigatexal 2 days ago 0 replies      
Likely didn't cost him much (no disrespect to his huge donation meant) since MSFT shares rose something like 50% in the last few years.
jtx1 2 days ago 3 replies      
4010dell 2 days ago 1 reply      
canoebuilder 2 days ago 11 replies      
eradication of Malaria (1000 deaths daily, much more suffering and cost to society).

If great efforts are made to eradicate diseases in an area that has historically been subjected to various diseases such that the local population has adopted the reproduction strategy of having large amounts of offspring to counter premature deaths, but upon eradication/reduction of said diseases there is significant delay in the abatement of the overproduction strategy if it abates at all http://www.unz.com/isteve/the-worlds-most-important-graph/

if this population surge then expands beyond it's historical borders and causes mass societal disruption on a neighboring continent whose civilization has historically contributed great innovation and wealth to the world at large, and subsequently, said wealth and innovation contribution declines because of said societal disruption, do those who sought to eradicate the various diseases harbor some responsibility for the diminished prospects of the world at large?

Granted these are delicate questions but I believe their being asked has not just validity, but importance.

Certainly, simply ignoring pain, disease, and suffering is almost universally unpalatable.

But modifying one aspect of a complex system for what appears to be perfectly benevolent reasons, it is not at all surprising to find there could be downstream negative effects, negative enough to far outweigh whatever beneficent contribution you thought you were initially making. How do you make value judgments in such cases?

Gates himself has said it is far better to help people where they are regarding the recent unauthorized population influx events in Europe.

So I don't believe he is entirely blind to these potential downstream catastrophic effects.

Packages should be reproducible added to Debian Policy debian.org
430 points by lamby  3 days ago   43 comments top 5
dankohn1 3 days ago 1 reply      
I helped provide financial backing for the Reproducible Builds project at the Linux Foundation's Core Infrastructure Initiative [0]. Holger, Lunar and the whole team deserve a huge amount of credit for beginning this when it seemed pie-in-the-sky and growing it to now become the standard for a lot of our infrastructure.

[0] https://www.coreinfrastructure.org/projects/reproducible-bui...

gizmo686 3 days ago 4 replies      
>Any packages that absolutely cannot be built in a reproducible way[1] ... [1] Such as random noise added to kernel and firmware data structures during local builds, to be used as a last defense to avoid the herd using same keys effects, etc.

Shouldn't this example of randomness still be pushed to the installation stage, instead of in the distribution. If Debian's binary package contains a "random" key, then we have a pretty large herd already using it.

astrodust 2 days ago 2 replies      
Is there any way to create some kind of proof-of-work system where people who want to back the project can volunteer computer time to verify builds automatically and serve as a foil to any potential attackers?

Some kind of blockchain-like trust verification system isn't the craziest idea I've ever pitched.

thinkMOAR 2 days ago 0 replies      
Does this include CPU optimizations build options? Or specific cpu instructions still count as 'reproducible'?
k__ 3 days ago 3 replies      
maybe they should switch to Nix... wait!
Google AMP is bad for e-commerce thirtybees.com
356 points by themaveness  1 day ago   146 comments top 20
kinkrtyavimoodh 1 day ago 11 replies      
Despite understanding and largely agreeing with the concerns against AMP Cache that get discussed any time an AMP article gets posted on HN, I cannot stress enough on how relieved I feel to see the lightning icon next to a mobile search result, especially on my now aging phone.

Most content websites have become such a massive crapfest of ad-bloat, bad UX, huge page sizes and general usability hell that it's nigh impossible that I'd be able to reach the actual content of a non AMP site in the first 5-10 seconds of clicking on its link. (On my phone that's an additional 1-2 seconds for registering the tap, and 1-2 seconds for navigating to the browser)

My click-throughs to non AMP websites have reduced considerably.

So say what you may, AMP (or FB Instant or its ilk) will prosper until the mobile web experience stops being so crappy.

(Edit: About a decade ago, when mobile browsers were in their infancy and data plans were slow and limited, I distinctly remember using Opera Mini for mobile browsing because it used to pre-render pages on the server and send a very light payload to the phone. This saved you both data costs and made mobile browsing even realistically possible)

ucaetano 1 day ago 6 replies      
The author seems to completely misunderstand the point of AMP. It was never designed or created for dynamic, interactive content, especially e-commerce.

This is like complaining that a hammer is bad for driving screws.

roneythomas6 1 day ago 2 replies      
Why would you build your whole site on AMP??? Please read this before think about build AMP. https://www.smashingmagazine.com/2016/12/progressive-web-amp...
andy_ppp 1 day ago 1 reply      
AMP is fine. AMP Cache is embrace, extended and break the web in fairly fundamental ways.
cramforce 1 day ago 1 reply      
"AMP does not allow for use of forms". This is wrong https://www.ampproject.org/docs/reference/components/amp-for...

and similarly the rest of the article seems badly researched.

benmarks 1 day ago 0 replies      
There's a whole lot wrong with this article. Chief for me is the absolute ignorance around AMP -> PWA flow and browser-native payments API: https://developers.google.com/web/updates/2016/07/payment-re...

This tech may seem trivial to broadband users, but has demonstrated itself to be effective in mobile-heavy, low-bandwidth markets (ref India & myntra.com)

JoshMnem 1 day ago 0 replies      
AMP is terrible for the decentralized, open Web in general.
linopolus 1 day ago 1 reply      
So AMP is not even faster than other mobile pages without the google CDN? A pity so many prefer something like AMP to generally stripping down their sites. Get rid of JS unless absolutely necessary, compress/remove images, remove all this ad and bloat, and your page, whatever category it fits in, will load blazyingly fast. What happened to good old sole HTML and CSS, served statically or server-generated for lightning speed?
gregable 1 day ago 0 replies      
Breaking down a few of the concerns in this article:

> With AMP [chat applications] cannot be used

True currently. There are no chat application amp extensions, yet. This could change in the future. Vendors interested in implementing one for AMP should get involved at http://github.com/ampproject/amphtml

> AMP does not have any markup specific to checkouts

Most web pages move from shopping cart to payment by changing URLs. This would work just fine with an AMP page. There is in fact at least one vendor who has integrated payments with AMP already: https://www.ampproject.org/docs/reference/components/amp-acc...

Also take a look at https://ampbyexample.com/advanced/payments_in_amp/

> AMP does not allow for use of forms

See https://www.ampproject.org/docs/reference/components/amp-for...

> They really do not support a logged in state, or user preferences. Things like recommended products, or recently viewed products will not work with an AMP page. None of the personalization aspects like Hi, Lesley are done with AMP.

See the (perhaps poorly named) https://www.ampproject.org/docs/reference/components/amp-lis... This supports loading content specific to the user, even on a cached amp document.

> if search and filtering are a large part of your sites mobile navigation, AMP will be useless.

This is exactly what amp-bind was built for:https://ampbyexample.com/components/amp-bind/

> Google Analytics is not supported on AMP

Google Analytics is fully supported in AMP. Here's the Google Analytics support page:https://developers.google.com/analytics/devguides/collection...

> If you use a different suite of tracking such as Piwik or kissmetrics, they will not work with AMP.

There is a large list of analytics vendors that have direct support here:https://www.ampproject.org/docs/guides/analytics/analytics-v...

Other vendors can be added with a small amount of configuration. Here's a guide for Piwik, for example: https://www.elftronix.com/guide-to-using-piwik-analytics-wit...

Alternatively, vendors can submit a configuration to the AMP project which is just a few lines of JSON, then the vendor will be supported more directly.

> Ad Revenue is Decreased

The link is to a single article from a year ago. There are many studies pointing to the opposite effect as well.

> A/B testing is not supported

See https://www.ampproject.org/docs/reference/components/amp-exp...

> Performance

I'm not sure what URLs the author used, but I tried to find a similar overstock recliner page that might be the right one. I found:


The author tries to use a google.com/amp URL, but these redirect when not coming from a search click. Much easier is to take the CDN amp URL, which is served the same way:


I loaded both of these in Chrome, simulated a mobile device, network tab, and throttling with Fast 3G. Here were my results:

* non-AMP: 42 requests, 1.1 MB transferred, Finish: 10.3s, DomContentLoad: 3.38s, Load: 9.52s

* AMP: 35 requests, 408 KB transferred, Finish 5.87s, DomContentLoaded 1.28s, Load: 5.88s

The AMP page is 60% smaller and hits the load event in 40% less time. However "loaded" is a funny term in the world of javascript driven websites and needs to be looked at more carefully.

I suspect that the author's referenced tool is reporting "fully loaded time" as the time that the last network event ended. AMP pages intentionally delay loading images below the fold to prioritize visible content. This results in some images loading later without impacting the user experience. For example, as I scrolled in the AMP page, the "Finish" time would move ahead to a new time as new images were loaded. With events like analytics triggers, looking at the time the last network event finished is typically a misleading metric and won't work correctly with most amp documents.

If you load filmstrips in Chrome's Performance Tab, you can see this more clearly. Filmstrips display what the page looked like at snapshots in time after loading starts. For my quick test with network throttling, the non-AMP page takes a little over 6s to finish reaching it's final state and the AMP page takes about 2.2s. So AMP here is nearly 3x faster as the user would perceive it on similar connection speed.

k__ 1 day ago 0 replies      
Privacy issues aside, I don't get AMP, most of the time it doesn't even work right and I'm using chrome on my android tablet.

It either doesn't load or goes back to the previous page after a few seconds.

denisehilton 21 hours ago 0 replies      
What do you say about blogs? I understand that AMP is harmful to e-commerce based websites but what about blogs that are totally based on content and Google ads? How does it impact them?
dbg31415 1 day ago 0 replies      
Conceptually I hate AMP. I wish they would just have guidelines for fast load times, and award better rank and a lightening badge next to pages that are adhering to those guidelines. I HATE that Google restricts design, re-formats pages, and serves your content.

That said, AMP clearly isn't for eCommerce. You want dynamic, personalized content for eCommerce. Recommendations based on past pages visited, or search terms, or your location... It's not just about fast loading pages.

Some eCommerce may fear that their sales will suffer if someone else gets a page that's in AMP and then Google's new rankings put that page over their own... But that's no reason to convert your site to AMP. It's a good reason to build out landing pages specific for search terms, do paid advertising around keywords, and just generally market your products / site.

Generally speaking, people who come in to product pages straight from Google are just doing price comparison anyway -- it's just a step in the decision journey, but if you've done a proper job of marketing your business, customers that buy tend to go straight to your site and do a search using your own search tools.

taytus 1 day ago 0 replies      
Disclaimer: I'm working on ROBOAMP (an AMP generator)

AMP has limitations, like any piece of technology. Once you understand the limitations you should be able to plan your attack accordingly.

We are pre-launch but if you want early access and test our automatic generator please email me.

droopybuns 23 hours ago 0 replies      
Anyone else annoyed at how evernote web clips are completely busted on AMP pages?
nouveau0 1 day ago 0 replies      
Should have stopped at Google AMP is bad.
themaveness 1 day ago 3 replies      
I imagine it will likely be shelved soon either by lawsuit or just by Google's closing it down.
kuschku 1 day ago 0 replies      
So, to avoid having to argue the same problems always again, heres a summary of some of the technical and antitrust issues with AMP:

1. You have to embed the AMP version from Googles servers, you cant self-host the AMP js, or run it from another CDN. This makes your site unavailable in, for example, China, relies on Googles systems, and ensures that Google knows every user of your site.

Source: https://www.ampproject.org/docs/reference/spec#required-mark...

> contain a <script async src="https://cdn.ampproject.org/v0.js"></script> tag inside their head tag.

2. You need to allow Google to cache the content, and all Google products will always link to the Google cache version. You can not opt out of this. You can not ensure users visit your own CDN version. You can not prevent Google from displaying modified versions of the pages (for example, the header UI of AMP pages in Google search, and the swiping between pages gesture).

Source: https://developers.google.com/amp/cache/faq

> Q: Can I stop content from being cached?

> A: No. By using the AMP format, content producers are making the content in AMP files available to be cached by third parties. For example, Google products use the Google AMP Cache to serve AMP content as fast as possible.

3. Pages that use AMP get a massive indirect ranking boost. Yes, they dont get directly boosted, but they get added to the AMP carousel, between the ads and the #1 result, or between the #1 and #2 result. If, for a given search term, none of the top pages have an AMP result, Google will boost the first 3-4 pages that have an AMP result to this place even if theyd organically rank on page 10 or later. In some situations, Ive seen results from page 13 boosted to #1.

w00bl3ywook 1 day ago 0 replies      
wtf is this guy talking about? This article has so many errors, it should be retracted.
ziggzagg 1 day ago 1 reply      
Mot google projects die organically, with a short life span. No need to keep bashing AMP like this.
thinbeige 1 day ago 0 replies      
Tried today to find a way to let amp-img mimic CSS' background-size cover paired with background-position. Not possible, so I need still to use CSS' background-image without AMP's preloading feature.

This is one of the most used features in HTML/CSS to handle images, people are complaining in the Github issues, others rewrite the whole Internet in AMP with AMP components.

This is ridiculous, Google just wants to restrict other ad networks' JS and recreates HTML/CSS/JS for no real reason.

Intel Reveals Post-8th Gen. Core Architecture 10nm+ Ice Lake anandtech.com
322 points by bauta-steen  2 days ago   232 comments top 11
majidazimi 1 day ago 5 replies      
Hmmm. It seems Atom/Electron devs need to work hard to slow down new generation processors...
nullnilvoid 2 days ago 4 replies      
As a consumer, it's great to see competition picking up in the CPU market. Intel does not seem to be able to hold the edge in node process as tsmc and Samsung are matching intel. It has to resort to architecture design.
bitL 1 day ago 3 replies      
In retrospective, Intel should have bought NVidia when they had the chance; GPUs is the only area making huge progress year to year now.
nodesocket 2 days ago 1 reply      
Is this Intel's response to AMD Threadripper and EPYC?
GuiA 2 days ago 9 replies      
According to the table in the article:

- 2011: 32nm

- 2012: 22nm

- 2014: 14nm

- 2018?: 10nm

I don't know much about foundry processes, but it seems that it's taking more and more time for lesser and lesser gains, right? At this rate, how long until we reach sub nanometer? What are the physical limits on these processes, and does it have any implications for end users? Will we be using 2nm CPUs for 50 years?

Would love to hear the thinking of anyone educated on the topic.

Edit: very intrigued by the sustained downvotes on this \_()_/

turblety 1 day ago 11 replies      
I wonder if this one will come with free backdoors and spyware installed, thanks to the wonderful Intel Management Engine (Intel ME) backdoor. [1][2][3]

Intel (and AMT) keep pushing more and more proprietary code that can not be read, changed or removed. No one knows exactly what it does and it has built in screen and key recording. It's my advice and the advice of privacy advocates that no one should purchase or use any processor made by Intel or AMD until they address these serious issues.

1. https://libreboot.org/faq.html#intel

2. https://puri.sm/learn/intel-me/

3. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14708575

bhouston 2 days ago 4 replies      
What will be the clock when single threaded? Can we get above 5GHz finally?
verroq 2 days ago 3 replies      
Anyone else get redirected to malware?
JohnJamesRambo 2 days ago 1 reply      
readams 1 day ago 0 replies      
They used to go Process, Architecture, Process, Architecture, which was styled as Tick, Tock. Recently they switched to Process, Architecture, More Architecture.

I like to call it Tick, Tock, Clunk.

slededit 2 days ago 7 replies      
At this point real compute happens on the GPU. I think we'll see a shift to major apps being driven by GPGPU.

The CPU's performance has started matter less and less.

APIs as infrastructure: future-proofing Stripe with versioning stripe.com
488 points by darwhy  2 days ago   50 comments top 23
organsnyder 2 days ago 4 replies      
I work on a SOA team at a large healthcare enterprise. We currently write mostly SOAP APIs (yeah, I know, 2017 and all that...), and follow a typical pattern as what Stripe describes: Whenever we do a version bump (which is extremely frequent, since a WSDL breaks a contract the moment you sneeze at it), we create an XSLT transform from the new version back to the old. So if you're calling version 2, but the current version is 10, there will be transforms back for 10->9, 9->8, 8->7... all the way back to 2. It works well enough.

We're in the early stages of deploying a new RESTful stack, and versioning is a hot topic (along with getting people out of the RPC mindset and into a resource-based paradigm). While version bumps should be much less common, we'll probably end up doing something similar to our cascading transformations. Essentially, the old version becomes a consumer of the new version, and as long as the new version continues to hold to its API contract, everything should work with minimal fuss. Of course, that's assuming that we don't change the behavior of a service in ways that aren't explicitly defined in the API contract...

ianstormtaylor 2 days ago 1 reply      
Always excited to hear Stripe talking about versioning :D

For anyone else who's interested, they've written/talked about this a few times over the years, to fill out the picture:

- http://amberonrails.com/move-fast-dont-break-your-api/

- https://www.heavybit.com/library/video/move-fast-dont-break-...

- https://speakerdeck.com/apistrat/api-versioning-at-stripe

- https://brandur.org/api-upgrades

- https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13708927

It sounds like their YAML system has changed to be implemented in code instead, which maybe allows the transforms to be a bit more helpful/encapsulated. If anyone from Stripe is here, it would be awesome to know if that's true and why the switch?

sb8244 2 days ago 0 replies      
I'm working on designing an API now that is based on Stripe's previous post from how they do versioning.

In general, the concepts employed by Stripe really encourage better design choices. All changes, responses, request parameters, etc should be documented and then handled automatically by the system. We took this approach in our design, although we don't do it with an explicit "ChangeObject" like Stripe does; it's a great idea though.

Hoping to be able to put out a blog post once we start implementing the system and getting feedback on what works and doesn't work well.

mrhwick 2 days ago 0 replies      
I wrote a library that will assist anyone wanting to do something similar for versioning using Django Rest Framework: https://github.com/mrhwick/django-rest-framework-version-tra...
hn_throwaway_99 2 days ago 1 reply      
I think this is one area where GraphQL really excels. It essentially can handle all of this versioning for you (as clients specify EXACTLY what they want) - you just need to make sure that as you evolve your schema that existing fields are left as-is and you only add new fields (not an easy task, but no harder than what you have to do in Stripe's protocol).
atonse 2 days ago 2 replies      
This is awesome. As someone who's built many APIs, I have always wondered how Stripe managed all those versions. I knew their code couldn't just be littered with if/thens.

This is a really smart way to do it.

One question is, over the years, wouldn't you add a lot of overhead to each request in transformation? Or do you have a policy where you expire versions that are more than 2 years old, etc? (skimmed through parts of the article so my apologies if you already answered this)

tomschlick 2 days ago 1 reply      
To me this is one of the best things about the Stripe API. It's basically database migration files but for your API requests.

Does anyone know of packages that do this already? I have been contemplating creating one in PHP/Laravel for a long time but haven't had the time yet...

dperfect 2 days ago 1 reply      
Does anyone know if there's a publicly-available Ruby gem for doing what's described in this blog post - i.e., cascading transformations with a nice DSL? If someone from Stripe reads this, I think you could count on some decent community interest for this framework if you ever consider open-sourcing it.
Silhouette 2 days ago 0 replies      
Thank you to Stripe for the efforts they make in this area. If you're building critical infrastructure around someone else's system -- and it doesn't get much more critical than the way you collect money -- then you really want this kind of stability.

I wish other payment services treated their long-time clients with the same respect (looking straight at you, GoCardless).

mi100hael 2 days ago 0 replies      
I'd love to see more specifics on the documentation automation. Keeping docs straight sounds like the biggest challenge with a system like this.
smackay 1 day ago 0 replies      
Whenever an idea about API versioning springs into mind it is always worthwhile to watch Rich Hickey's Spec-ulation talk, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oyLBGkS5ICk for an alternative view of the world.
aidos 2 days ago 0 replies      
That's a great system - I'm totally going to borrow that technique when it next makes sense.

Hey, @pc with all the spare time your team has accumulated by using this api model maybe you could put it to good use. Might I suggest it's time to divert most of your tech resources into creating the next Capture the Flag? Because those were just awesome!

I'm joking, in case it's not obvious (but I would absolutely love another Stripe CTF).

kirbypineapple 2 days ago 1 reply      
From a Stripe developer perspective this sounds like a really clean way to handle API versioning.

From a consumer of Stripe's API's perspective, doesn't this make debugging or modifying legacy code a real pain? Let's say I'm using Stripe.js API's from a few years ago; where do I go to find the docs for that version? Do I need to look at the API change log and work backwards?

miheermunjal 2 days ago 0 replies      
I wish every company would be this open on their strategies. Between this and netflix, its great to see the cutting edge in action
goodroot 2 days ago 0 replies      
Most excellent write-up. I used Stripe for inspiration when writing a post that wound up here titled 'Pragmatic API Versioning', since been renamed 'How to Version a Web API'. It felt like the most clever way to reconcile change and stability, when compared to other major APIs.

It was a delight to get a peek behind the curtain. :)

di 2 days ago 2 replies      
Github also versions their API via headers, but uses the `Accept` header instead: https://developer.github.com/v3/media/
matt_s 1 day ago 0 replies      
If the API is transforming requests/responses essentially auto-magically behind the scenes, then how would a client know what version to upgrade to, in order to get new desired features?

Say it is splitting of street into street1 and street2 for an address element. How would I know what version to target to get this feature?

devj 1 day ago 0 replies      
Considering the popularity of APIs, has anybody felt the need for a Accept-Version header?
devj 1 day ago 0 replies      
In our experience, API versioning hits a roadblock in three cases:

1. Mandatory new field.

2. Field is split. For example, address field is now divided into street1 and street2.

3. Change in datatype.

In the above three cases, we had to force users to upgrade their versions.

SoMisanthrope 2 days ago 0 replies      
Brilliant article. Whatever versioning schema that you use, you should at least start with _something_ at the outset of an application IMO
guzik 1 day ago 0 replies      
Sounds like migration policy on iOS (Core Data)
celim307 2 days ago 0 replies      
I really like the rolling versioning approach. Makes a lot of sense.
pfarnsworth 1 day ago 0 replies      
Versioning of APIs have existed since the dawn of time, or at least the early 90s. ONC RPCs had versioning built-in IIRC for all their XDR structs. We got away from that over the last few decades, and now people run into the same problems that were effectively solved almost 30 years ago, but long forgotten. The more things change, the more they stay the same!
Facebook You are the Product lrb.co.uk
369 points by rditooait  1 day ago   283 comments top 12
notadoc 1 day ago 9 replies      
I stopped using Facebook years ago and I could not recommend it more. I found it to be mental pollution at best and and a total waste of time.

If you want to 'keep in touch' with people, call or text them. Make an effort to actually interact with the people who matter to you.

olympus 1 day ago 8 replies      
I'm here to fix some ignorance, since the source of the "you are the product" idea is not these books.

Metafilter user blue_beetle first put this idea online when he said "If you are not paying for it, you're not the customer; you're the product being sold" in response to the Digg revolt of 2010. The idea apparently existed for a few decades prior regarding TV advertising. I prefer to think blue_beetle was the one who brought it into the zeitgeist.



Edit: Alex3917 posted a similar idea on HN on 6 May 2010, beating blue_beetle by a couple months. Gotta give credit where it's due: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15030959

akeck 1 day ago 7 replies      
I wonder if, in the future, being able not to be on any social media will be an higher class privilege.
grwthckrmstr 19 hours ago 1 reply      
I'm using Facebook to earn my "fuck you money".

The advertising tools are so powerful it is downright scary, the level of targeting one can do using it is just insane.

That's partly the reason why I stopped posting updates. After seeing the depth of the advertising tools.

I don't use Facebook for posting personal updates anymore but only to fuel my business. I realise that the only way I can "choose" to stay out of all these services that track and sell our identity to advertisers is if I have "fuck you money" (money is the currency you exchange for your limited time in order to survive in this world).

phatbyte 1 day ago 0 replies      
I dropped all my social networks in the beginning of the year. I did for two main reasons.

First, for privacy concerns. FB, specially was getting to creepy for me. I felt, every action I did was being analyzed and filtered, I felt like I was a lab rat. The fact that these companies know so much about us is pretty scary, I felt like I needed to regain my privacy, fight the system somehow.

Second reason was because, I wasn't getting anything substantial that could improve my life overall. All I saw was dumb-ass posts, ignorant comments, the passive aggressiveness, the "look at me doing this really mundane thing, but please like my picture so I can feel validated", etc... feels like a mouse-cat race to see which of us has a better life or something. I honestly feel bad for how much time I spent there when I could apply that time to learn new things.

After more than 6 months without FB, here's what I've learned:

- I still keep in touch with my closest friends, we chat on slack/iMessage every day. It's actually a good way to know who really misses you, during this time, only about 5% of my FB friends reached out to me through message or phone to ask how were things in life. The other 95%, I really don't even remember most of their names anymore. Just ask yourselves, why do we have to share so much of our lives with so many "friends"? I know we can filter, and create groups, etc.. but damn...do you really want to spend your life "managing" relationships, to see who sees what? I find that tiresome.

- I don't feel left out of anything, because I keep track of local events using other sources, I read news from faithful websites, and if I need to share anything I just use the old email or show face-to-face any pictures I need of my latest vacation from my phone without having to share anything with anyone.

- I gain more time, less stress, I don't feel overwhelmed to keep track of every social media update. I just don't care. If something important happens I will know it sooner or later.

- I no longer have this need to constantly keep posting photos of what I'm doing outdoors or whatever. I don't have the need to feel validated by anyone but myself.

- But most importantly, I regained my privacy, or at least my social footprint is bare none at this point. I'm using uBlock, Firefox, DuckDuckGo and other tools to keep trackers at bay.

I may never completely win this war, but at least my habits aren't being recorded and feed to any ML algorithm.

adrianlmm 1 day ago 2 replies      
I've been using Facebook for years, awesome tool, I'm in contact with friends, relatives and parters, it is awesome.
amrrs 1 day ago 0 replies      
Cal Newport has been saying things like Facebook and other SM are engineered to be addictive and we've constantly seeing Youths falling for it. Adam Alter made a similar comment that when we've got a proper regulation for substances, why not for something like social media?

Fb is not just making us another node in a vast network graph but also ensuring a worst boring grown-ups who can't do anything worthy but post an Fb post condemning something and feeling great about their social responsibility.

kristianc 1 day ago 0 replies      
> Whatever comes next will take us back to those two pillars of the company, growth and monetisation. Growth can only come from connecting new areas of the planet.

This is a questionable assertion. Giant tech companies like Oracle and IBM don't tend to expand in this way, they make acquisitions of smaller companies, and use them to enhance the platform capabilities of the larger product.

I'm sure Zuck will be delighted if the "bottom billion" do all sign up and use Facebook, but they're never going to be massively profitable accounts.

Imo the acquisitions of Instagram and WhatsApp show the way that Facebook will go - Instagram adds a new and lucrative ad format, a profitable user segment and a base for adding in ideas from other platforms, such as Snapchat. WhatsApp builds out Facebook's graph and can be mined for intel.

0xfaded 22 hours ago 1 reply      
I log in whenever I need to use messenger, about once every three months. Was greeted with a notification telling me it had been 258 weeks since I last updated my profile. :)
justaguy2017 17 hours ago 1 reply      
I don't understand the problem, you can use Facebook for adding friends and messaging them and it's free. You can use Facebook Messenger, not use the app and use website for adding people and getting their information. The newsfeed there can be turned off or customised, if you do install the app, all notifications can be turned off. This is a good and free service, but if people don't know hot to use it, maybe there is a point in writing about it. Messages about deleting Facebook account seem counterproductive, because why throw away a good tool if you use it rarely and it's useful?
nsnick 1 day ago 0 replies      
The real problem with Facebook is that it causes depression. No one posts anything bad about their lives so your life looks terrible in comparison to the image everyone is posting.
taytus 1 day ago 0 replies      
I haven't used FB in the last 6 months or so. I'm mentally healthier.
Puppeteer: Headless Chrome Node API github.com
394 points by uptown  1 day ago   98 comments top 31
tholman 1 day ago 4 replies      
One of the biggest wins here is this little tidbit:

> When you install Puppeteer, it downloads a recent version of Chromium (~71Mb Mac, ~90Mb Linux, ~110Mb Win) that is guaranteed to work with the API.

A lot of the chrome interface libs about at the moment require you to maintain your own instance of chrome/chromium and launch the headless server with your command line, or require a pre compiled version, that can quickly get out of date (https://github.com/adieuadieu/serverless-chrome/tree/master/...). Having this taken care of is a blessing.

rcarmo 1 day ago 1 reply      
This is great, but it's sobering to see how hard it is to get a nice, "complete" PDF screenshot out of a modern site.

Here's a quick hack: https://gist.github.com/rcarmo/cf698b52832d0ec356c147cf9c9ad...

I'm using The Verge for testing because it lazy loads images, and am being clumsy about the scrolling, but it mostly works - I can get 90% of the images to show on the finished PDF.

What I can't seem to get right, though, is creating a single-page PDF where the page height matches the document height perfectly - it always seems to be off by a bit, at least on this site (mine works fine, _sometimes_).

Anyone got an idea of why this is so?

bauerd 1 day ago 6 replies      
So first there was Selenium's JSON Wire protocol, then came the W3C WebDriver spec and now we're back to browser-specific implementations? As someone who's tried/is trying to automate Firefox/Chrome/Safari/IE in a consistent fashion, my only question is: WHY?
ontouchstart 1 hour ago 0 replies      
Using puppeteer to call google seach the keywords "chrome puppeteer will return link to this HN page itself. :-)

This github page was generated by a markdown file created by a test.js running in a Puppeteer docker container:


VeejayRampay 1 day ago 0 replies      
I've found Chromeless to work great for that task. But then again, if this is from the Chrome DevTools team, it's a good guarantee to have.
cestith 1 day ago 1 reply      
I'm a little concerned about the confusion in the market of another product in the automation space called "Puppet"-something.

The project itself looks exciting.

chis 1 day ago 1 reply      
It's funny how open the market for browser automation is. Everyone needs to switch off phantomJS in the next few years and is looking for the easiest option.

Sadly, there's probably no money on the line. But you will get your buggy software used by huge corporations for years to come!

bluepnume 21 hours ago 1 reply      
I'm really loving headless chrome so far. I have around 650 tests which are mostly dealing with iframes and popup windows, and they run flawlessly. The first release seemed to have a memory leak which wasn't present in non-headless chrome, but that seems to have been fixed in version 60.

Even sped things up a little versus phantom.

borplk 1 day ago 3 replies      
Does anyone know if it's possible to take a screenshot of a specific DOM element? (instead of the entire page)
ohitsdom 1 day ago 2 replies      
The API looks nice and clean, but I'm puzzled by this from the FAQ:

> Puppeteer works only with Chrome. However, many teams only run unit tests with a single browser (e.g. PhantomJS).

Is this true? Do teams write unit tests but only test them in a single browser? With test runners like Karma and Testem, running tests concurrently in multiple browsers is easy. You'd be throwing away huge value if for some reason you only decided to test in one vendor's browser.

simonpure 1 day ago 0 replies      
There's also a docker image for headless chrome automatically updated from the trunk if you're looking to test against the latest -


Full disclosure: I'm maintaining the image.

jotto 1 day ago 0 replies      
> Crawl a SPA and generate pre-rendered content (i.e. "SSR").

I've been maintaining (thanks to this team and Headless Chrome) a convenience API based on this feature. Some additional features:

 * React checksums for v14 and v15 (v16 no longer uses checksums) * preboot integration for clean Angular server->client transition * support for Webpack code splitting * automatic caching of XHR content

and for the crawling or to delegate your single-page app hosting and server-side rendering entirely https://www.roast.io/

samwillis 1 day ago 2 replies      
Has anyone found something similar but for Python? The few I found all seemed to be abandoned or too limited in capability.
kusmi 6 hours ago 0 replies      
Has anyone been able to get headless mode to work with socks5 proxy, yet?
equasar 1 day ago 2 replies      
How can this work on Cloud Functions/Amazon Lambda/Azure Functions without installing the dependencies each time it has to run?

Haven't done anything before with those serverless approaches.

jakozaur 1 day ago 0 replies      
Great move! One of the biggest advantage of PhantomJS was easy to use high level API.
bofia 1 day ago 0 replies      
Are there any new python drivers for headless chrome? Selenium seems to still be lacking several features exposed by the DevTools protocol (e.g. print PDF)
bdcravens 1 day ago 1 reply      
Has headless Chrome enabled file downloads yet? (I don't mean navigating to a known url and saving content, but when a site pops open a save dialog)
stephen123 16 hours ago 0 replies      
Im looking forward to seeing the pdf printing features develop. They are lacking a few of the formatting features of wkhtmltopdf.
martinald 1 day ago 2 replies      
Is there an equivalent of this for C#? I use Selenium a lot and find it annoying. Be interested to see if this is much better.
nailer 1 day ago 0 replies      
The important bit:

> Who maintains Puppeteer?


> The Chrome DevTools team maintains the library

commandertso 1 day ago 0 replies      
Pretty psyched to see this. A lot of my automated testing headaches came from the intersection of using PhantomJS with transpiled code - which makes sense, since the Phantom team was always forced to play catch-up with the browsers being emulated.
boozang 1 day ago 0 replies      
Awesome! This will make the Boozang/CI integration much smoother. I was using npm-headless-chromium before, but the Xvfb dependency was error-prone and difficult to setup properly. Thank you very much!
barbolo 1 day ago 1 reply      
Would be nice if it was possible to change the proxy settings for each request or for each session. Last time I checked it was only possible with the C API.
borplk 1 day ago 0 replies      
This is really nice. Thanks for your work.
megamindbrian 1 day ago 1 reply      
Can you help with one of the existing API's that does the same thing instead of inventing a new one?
qualitytime 22 hours ago 0 replies      
Does anyone know if it supports screen capture for webgl?
boozang 1 day ago 0 replies      
Awesome! This will simplify the Boozang Jenkins integration significantly (I was using npm-headless-chromium before, but there were many manual steps, and the Xvfb dependency was annoying). Thank you very much!
hartator 1 day ago 0 replies      
I wonder if anyone know a Ruby equivalent?
whipoodle 1 day ago 0 replies      
Very cool. In a previous job we ran our JS unit tests on PhantomJS, using a tool that allowed arbitrary code to be piped to Phantom for execution and redirected Phantom's console to stdout. (We did all this so our tests ran on something resembling a real browser, as opposed to jsdom.) Something similar should be possible with this.
Akujin 1 day ago 1 reply      
I think simple-headless-chrome is more far alonghttps://github.com/LucianoGanga/simple-headless-chrome
Ask HN: Is Georgia Tech's Online Master in CS Worth It?
474 points by soneca  2 days ago   202 comments top 55
vikascoder 2 days ago 7 replies      
Current working professional and an OMSCS student here. It highly depends on the context. Biggest pros are:1. This is perhaps the cheapest Computer Science masters in the United States from a premier school. The degree is exactly the same as offered to the residential program and the credits acquired are all legit and transferable to other universities. I had friends who transferred from OMSCS to a regular school and skipped one full semester due to the credits earned.2. An OMSCS qualification holds way more water than if you do random MOOC qualifications on Coursera and others.3. The coursework is the same as the residential program. So if you dont believe in studying an MS at all, then this program is nothing special. Its a Masters in Computer Science. So It's pros and cons are the same as a regular MS.4. If you are international, then having an OMSCS degree is equivalent to having a Gatech MS degree. It is a superb add-on to your profile and also qualifies you as a graduate level tech specialist for future Visa processing.5. If you are international and looking to stay and work in your own country, then your mileage may vary depending on your circumstances. OMSCS provides no visa support and no career counselling. It does have an online portal for jobs but its more geared towards residents.6. Other than that, it forces you to think and study new areas of research while you work so its extremely enriching.7. The program is more or less extremely well run with regular assignments, proctored exams, 1-1 sessions with professors and what not.8. Some companies reimburse your tuition, so its virtually free (at least for me)

Cmon guys, a US Masters for 7000 USD? Are you kidding me? Its totally worth it. In fact I feel blessed that such a thing even exists. GaTech has been a trailblazer in this regards.

bkanber 2 days ago 2 replies      
Worth it -- based on what metric?

My wife did an online master's degree (at a legit university that also had an online program). You have to be very good at self-pacing, diligence, and learning autonomously. You have to be so good at it, in fact, that the type of person who would succeed in an online master's program is the same type of person who would succeed in self-learning without the master's program.

So if your only goal is to learn, then I say no, it's not worth it.

However, you're in Brazil and not a lifelong programmer. Credentials may work against you if seeking a job in the US. Many US companies look at South America as the "nearshore" talent, much better in quality than devfarms in India, but also still cheaper and -- because of that -- slightly lower in quality than US talent.

In that case, spending $7k and completing the program and getting the degree may help you get a $7k higher salary in your first (or next) job. It may give US companies more confidence in your abilities, as you received a US graduate school education.

So from a financial perspective and the perspective of job opportunities inside the US as a foreigner, then I think it may be worth it. If you don't care about getting US jobs then still probably not worth it.

Best of luck!

ordinaryperson 2 days ago 4 replies      
At 5K, the price is right (my in-person master's was 22K, although my employers covered most of it) but be aware it's not the missing piece to catapult you into superstar developer earning 170K/year.

Honestly I think your time is better spent working on real projects. In my CS master's program I met many students with no real-world experience. One was a paralegal before school, and after he graduated he became...a paralegal with a CS master's. Experience > degrees, every time.

There's value in the program (algorithms and data structures being the most applicable), but just go in with your eyes open knowing that the degree is not a glass slipper that'll turn you into Cinderella overnight. Too many IMHO falsely believed my program was a jobs program and really struggled to find work in the field.

If you can do it at night while working FT, great but don't take 1-2 years off work. It sounds appealing to be done ASAP but you're unlikely to make up that 60-120K/year in lost wages. Unless you're fabulously wealthy.

Good luck.

throwawayaug15 2 days ago 9 replies      
Logging in as a throwaway. The program only costs $5k but it was one of the most expensive things I've done in my life.

Got a job at Google directly because of this program (a few classes like CCA helped a lot with interviews). I'm aware of at least a couple dozen of us from OMS here.

The program cost me dearly. It cost me my relationship with the SO and it cost me my health (staying up late nights, lots of coffee).

* $5k cheap, it's nothing, the real way you pay for it is via your time.

* The teachers like the flexibility as much as we do. Many are top notch. I took two classes from professors that work at Google (Dr. Starner and Dr. Essa), one at Netflix (Dr. Lebanon), and a few others have their own startups.

* One of the classes was taught by Sebastian Thrun, with a TA at Google, but I think that's changed now.

* The lectures are good, but you have infinite ability to subsidize them with Udacity, Coursera etc.

* You learn squat by watching videos. The true learning happens at 2am when you are trying to implement something, and end up tinkering, debugging, etc. That's when things click.

* The hidden gem is Piazza and some of the amazing classmates that help you out. Lots of classmates that work in industry and can explain things a lot better. I.e: Actual data scientists and CTOs of Data Science companies taking the data science class. They were amazing and I owe my degree to them in part.

* Working full time and taking classes is not easy. Consider quitting and doing it peacefully.

* From within Google, I've heard from people that did the Stanford SCPD (I'm considering it) and also OMSCS. Lots of people that say the SCPD program wasn't worth the time and effort. No one yet that's said the same about the GT program.

I've heard from people that have done the program in-person, and they say the online lectures and materials are significantly better.

lemonghost 2 days ago 2 replies      
I'm halfway through the OMSCS in the machine learning specialization. It has been a great experience so far and definitely worth it for me.

A couple of things to consider: As you mentioned, it is more focused on Computer Science than Software Engineering/Development. There are a couple of Software Engineering/Architecture/Testing courses but I haven't taken them so I can't comment on how relevant I think they are to my day job.

It's an incredible bargain... 7-8K for an MS (not an online MS) from a top 10 school in CS. That on it's own makes it worth it for me.

It's not easy and it's not like a typical Coursera/Udacity course. Depending on which courses you take it can be quite challenging (which is a good thing). You typically don't have much interaction with the Professors but there are a lot of TAs and other students to help you along the way.

Here's a reddit in case you haven't come across it that answers many questions:


And here's an awesome course review site that a student built:


forrestbrazeal 2 days ago 2 replies      
The answer is highly context dependent. If you think the degree will magically open up a lot of job opportunities for you, you might be kidding yourself. However, if you love to learn and don't mind putting in the long hours, it can be rewarding for its own sake.

(Source: current OMSCS student, hopefully graduating in December)

I made an "informed decision tree" awhile back that goes into much more detail about my thought process when signing up for this degree:


I also reviewed the OMSCS program in detail here: https://forrestbrazeal.com/2017/05/08/omscs-a-working-profes...

Hope that helps!

opensandwich 2 days ago 0 replies      
I have finished the OMSCS program and in some ways I have mixed feelings about it. My background has been primarily in mathematics/statistics and I didn't come from a "tradition CS" educational background.

Did I learn a lot?

I learnt a ridiculous amount. For the time+dollar investment it is amazing. The program is definitely not easy either.

It has been amazing to learn the concepts in ML (Dr. Isbell) and AI (Dr Starner) courses and then a few weeks later think "I think I can actually use these concepts in my workplace".

Why the mixed feelings?

Not all courses had the same quality to it. From the top of my head, AI, ML were probably the best 2 courses. Other well ran courses I would add was computational photography, edutech, introduction to infosec (besides the rote learning...), however some of the other courses I had a relatively negative experience.

The degree does suck up a lot of time and I would say it is the real deal.

Knowing what I know now I can't say 100% that I will "re-do" OMSCS - to be fair on GaTech I'm not sure whether the challenges that I feel above are due to an online program and I personally would be more suited to an in-person program but the experience has definitely been better than Udacity's nanodegree and any MOOC which I have sat.

Overall I would say if you do it for the sake of learning and that alone - OMSCS is worth it. For any other reason please don't do it.

CoachRufus87 2 days ago 2 replies      
Richard Schneeman (an engineer at Heroku) wrote a great blog post on this very topic; worth the read: https://schneems.com/2017/07/26/omscs-omg-is-an-online-maste...
crueoj 2 days ago 0 replies      
As someone currently in the program and graduating this Spring, I have found this program to be incredibly rewarding. GT has done a fantastic job turning their on-campus courses into an online format. At first I was skeptical, but I have found this program extremely challenging and have learned a great deal. It has been fantastic in my career development as well, allowing me to land a job in ML before I have graduated.

The program does have its hiccups here and there. Some courses have been reported as being poorly organized, but this is certainly the minority. Also, you may not receive as much individual attention as you would in a on-campus program. This is aided by the fantastic community of students in the OMSCS program which provide a support system for each other through online forums/chat. If you are not much of a self-starter and need specific guidance, this program may not be for you.

mindvirus 2 days ago 2 replies      
I graduated from the program in December and I found it incredibly rewarding. There are a lot of great classes, and I learned a ton - in particular, the machine learning and reinforcement learning courses were top notch, as we're the systems programming ones.

One thing I'd warn though is that you'll get out of the program what you put into it - so it's really up to you to choose classes that will set up your career the way that you want it.

learc83 2 days ago 3 replies      
If you haven't been working as a software developer long and you don't have a background in CS, it's going to be difficult.

I'm about halfway through and many of the classes assume that you have the equivalent of an undergrad CS degree. It's not intended to replace an undergrad degree.

That doesn't mean you can't do it, but your going to spend a lot of time catching up. From what I've seen, the students without a CS degree, even those with significant industry experience, have had a much harder time with the more theoretical classes.

It's also a graduate program, and the classes are pretty rigorous compared to what I did in my undergrad CS degree.

Also keep in mind that admission is fairly competitive. And admission is only probationary. You have to complete 2 foundational classes with a B to be fully accepted.

w8rbt 2 days ago 0 replies      
I've completed the majority of the OMCS program. My specialization is 'Computing Systems'. I have a 4.0 GPA so far. I did not do CS as an undergraduate, but I've been programming since I was very young.

Here are my thoughts on what people need to succeed as an OMCS student:

 * Be able to program in C, C++, Python and Java at an intermediate level. And, know one of these very well. * Be able to use a debugger (GDB) and valgrind. * Be able to administer and configure Linux systems. * Understand data structures and examples (std::set in C++ is RB Tree backed, std::unordered_set is hash table backed) * Understand basic networking concepts and key technologies (TCP, UDP, IP, switching, routing, etc.). * Understand the x86 computer in general.
Finally, I think some of the classes are meant to weed students out. People may think that 'Intro to Graduate Operating Systems' would be an easy first course for CS beginners. It's not (unless they've changed it). It was primarily about writing multi-threaded clients, servers, caches and proxies in C, using shared memory (IPC, POSIX Shared Memory) and various other C/thread projects until you become a half-way decent C programmer. They deduct points for working code that has any errors (memory leaks, etc.) too. So don't be surprised if a seemingly easy OMCS course turns into... I had no idea. I'm going to have to drop this course. I saw that happen to several students.

I've done well so far, but I have the programming/logic background to do the work. If you don't, brush up on the skills listed above before enrolling.

Edit: The class projects are a lot of work. Be prepared to give-up your weekends and evenings. Even if you know the material and the language, it's a job to get through some of the projects.

hnrodey 2 days ago 1 reply      
What are some of the prereq's to be prepared to be successful with completing this degree? Asking as someone who graduated with a CS degree from almost ten years ago (wow, time flies). I've been programming/development pretty much that entire time but I think I have forgot most of the core math and core CS concepts that might be necessary in a CS masters degree.

It's hard for me to estimate how much prep I would need to do to come in to this program and feel comfortable with the tasks at hand.

orsenthil 2 days ago 0 replies      
I have been doing this for 2 years now. I enjoy this program. There are many students who are taking Gatech OMSCS and also taken MOOCs from Coursera, Udacity, and EDX. The defining characteristic of good students taking this course is, they are all self-learners, independent, and they want to learn Computer Science without giving up on the current full-time job. I have been keeping notes for the all the subjects that I have taken: http://www.coursedocs.org/gatech/index.html - Have a look at it to get a glimpse of the course work involved.

Cons: I've noticed some students who come to get their MS degree from a reputed institution because it is cheap. Due to coursework pressure, they take short-cuts, like doing group-work, discussing solutions when you are prohibited, plagiarizing in assignments, etc.

rgrieselhuber 2 days ago 0 replies      
As someone who hires machine learning / data science oriented engineers, I've looked at this curriculum pretty closely and think it looks like a great program.
mathattack 2 days ago 1 reply      
Only a few data points as an outside observer, but...

1 - The people I've seen doing it are learning A LOT - more than another online program I've seen.

2 - They're also working A LOT - it intrudes on all aspects of their personal life. It's as much or more work than doing an in person CS degree.

3 - The folks I know don't have CS undergrads, which also makes it more difficult.

Net - it can be worth it if you missed CS as an undergrad, but you'll have to work. You need to ask if there are enough people in Brazil who value the credential (or implied skills) to make it worth the time. The time investment is more expensive than the $s. (It will be thousands of hours)

el_benhameen 2 days ago 0 replies      
I'm self-taught and have a job as a SWE. My BA is in an unrelated field. I'm considering the OMSCS because it would be the cheapest way to add credentials to my resume and because I'd rather not go back for a second bachelor's. (I don't mean to sound cynical--I'm interested in the subject matter, of course, but you can get all of that without going through a degree program.) Exchanging $7k for more legitimacy in the eyes of prospective employers is the main appeal of a formalized program. Does anyone have any experience with or thoughts on the signaling potential of the degree?
fokinsean 2 days ago 0 replies      
I've been entertaining the idea of going through this course as well. I graduated 2 years ago, BS in CS, and part of me misses being in school. Plus my employer has a decent tuition reimbursement program.

Would anyone who works full time and gone through this program care to share their thoughts?

Edit: Just found this great article from another comment


gatechnoway 2 days ago 1 reply      
Working pro with 12 years experience. Absolutely not worth it. Most of your classmates will have not coded before.

The classes are cheap. The hours are long. In the end your grade depends on teammates who haven't been vetted. Three teammates who can't code? You get a C and don't pass.

Course content is extremely dated. UML and SDLC paradigms from the 70's with xerox pdfs distributed to "learn" from.

This is a money grab.

nvarsj 2 days ago 0 replies      
Not to be harsh, but you probably won't get accepted. You'll need to do some CS nanodegrees first, or something equivalent (a full undergrad CS/maths degree is obviously ideal). I know people in similar positions, even one with a physics degree, who could not get in due to lack of academic experience.

Otherwise, I think OMSCS is totally worth it. It is hard though. Really hard. I have a family, significant engineering experience, and I find the workload intense. It puts pressure on my family at the same time because I'm not available as much. So I'm taking it very slow, no more than 2-3 courses a year.

It feels great to be 'back at school' after so many years. I love learning new stuff and the challenges of hacking away at low level things. The kind of thing you rarely get to do professionally unless you're very lucky (or not getting paid much). Almost makes me wish I had done a Ph.D.

I don't know if it will help me get a better job or whatever, but it definitely fulfills my own internal itch.

schneems 2 days ago 0 replies      
I wrote about my experiences a few weeks ago: https://schneems.com/2017/07/26/omscs-omg-is-an-online-maste...

I'm through my second OMSCS semester, and it you want to know if I think it's worth it...you'll have to read the post ;)

rrmm 2 days ago 0 replies      
I have a regular old masters in CS from GT. It's probably worth it from a career standpoint (if nothing else it signals that you care about self-improvement and take active steps to doing it). I would expect you'd miss some of the 'grad school experience' (for better or worse) and networking opportunities. The actual content itself can probably be gotten for free from other courses on the web if you take a syllabus from a CS dept to get an overall program. That path wouldn't have the benefit of access to teachers and would require a lot of discipline.

I don't know how it would be looked at in Brazil or what the economic cost/benefit are in terms of your own income. I did know a few folks from the University of Sao Paulo that did grad and postdoc work while I was at GT though, so clearly some people are aware of GT in Brazil. That might be another avenue to get opinions from. I would be interested to hear how the costs compare to an institution that was local to you.

eyeball 15 hours ago 0 replies      
Anyone have experience with their OMS analytics program? Safe to assume the quality will be similar to the OMS-CS? It's run through edx instead of udacity.


mukhmustafa 2 days ago 1 reply      
I joined the program in Fall 2016, and I am half way now. So far, i can say that the program is very useful for workers who are looking for a part-time degree, or for people who can't afford the on-campus program. However, the knowledge you gain and experience you get can't be compared to the on-campus program.
decimalst_us 2 days ago 1 reply      
As a secondary question, for those who did complete the program, what was the general time commitment per (semester or class) vs. how long you were in the program? I see that you must take 2 classes in the first year, but didn't see any other further requirements on speed of completion.

edit: Answered my own question - You can't have two consecutive semesters "off"[1]. I.e. the slowest possible pace would be 2 classes in the first year, then 1 class every other semester. So I suppose it would be:spring/summer 'xx: 6 credits, 24 remaining, spring 'xx + 1: 9 credits, fall 'xx +1 : 12 creditsetc.

[1] - per https://www.reddit.com/r/OMSCS/wiki/index

7sevensof7 23 hours ago 0 replies      
It really depends on where you are in your career. The GT MSCS is very well regarded, so it's an excellent credential - but frankly the education is quite haphazard and I don't see that improving any time in the future. Teaching quality varies highly, from great to excretable - for many classes, the model is "a little lecture, then lots of poorly-curated assignments". This consumes a lot of time, in a very inefficient manner. Yes, you will learn, but mostly by through your own effort. The very high workload is really not suitable for a professional MS program, where it has to be managed with a job. I find class workload expands without bound every semester and even one class will significantly impact career and relationships. There is no force causing workload to be decline, so I expect that the program is rapidly going to become dominated by early-career full-time MS students, in the U.S. and outside, who live with their parents and knock out an inexpensive, high-quality MS CS. For those students, it's a great choice. If you don't fit that profile, it's a poor professional choice. If you have the discipline to teach yourself via MOOC classes, you will get a better education delivered much more efficiently - but that doesn't carry the credential. So in short - if you need the credential and can devote full time, it's an excellent choice. If not, I do not suggest it.
josep2 2 days ago 0 replies      
My background: B.A. In Math and Economics. Been working as a software engineer for 6 years now. I have been in the program for about 1.5 years. I've really enjoyed it and learned a ton. I've also been able to pay the full cost of tuition out of pocket. I agree with others in the thread that it depends on context.

I don't think it will have an immediate impact on my earnings or place in my company, but I think the long term value of having it far exceeds what I'm paying for it.

daok 2 days ago 3 replies      
I have a question about the requirement to enter the program. It says is require to have 3 people to write a recommendation letters. I have finish my bachelor +10 years ago and I am not touch with any professors. Does providing managers are enough? On the website they put emphasis of not adding friends which I can understand, but I am curious about the serious about getting these letters.
MechEStudent 1 day ago 0 replies      
I'm a working engineer in Ohio, and I hope to start this fall. My work covers it, and the content is highly relevant.

Folks say institution-X is the same. I haven't seen one. Princeton or Stanford are, AFAICT, stunningly more expensive, and not purely remote.

This is a "sine qua non" - without this particular option, there is nothing else on the menu for me at this point in my life and career.

j_s 2 days ago 0 replies      
It came up on yesterday's launch of Lambda School (YC S17), but not sure anyone there can provide any additional info.


frgtpsswrdlame 2 days ago 4 replies      
Don't you need an undergrad degree in computer science to be admitted?


cweagans 2 days ago 0 replies      
Personally, I'd go for an undergrad CS degree first. uopeople.edu might be a good place to start. I'm currently working through that program, and I intend to continue to the GA Tech masters program when I'm done.
throwaway170805 2 days ago 0 replies      
Current OMSCS student here. It's been a challenging, eye-opening experience, and I'm grateful to be a part of the program.

However, computer science and software development are not the same thing. If your primary goal is to up your game as a software developer, you might get more out of well-regarded software development books like "The Pragmatic Programmer," "Working Effectively with Legacy Code", or "Design Patterns."

Hope this helps.

satyargudimetla 2 days ago 1 reply      
Excellent course. Value for money. I am doing this from India. I don't have words how much thankful I am to the University. CS education made it so affordable by making it cheaper and online MooC. People like me can benefit a lot. I feel proud to be part of Georgia Tech. Course is not an easy one. We need to put full effort. Very practical oriented. I got exposed to many technologies which is very helpful in today's world. Good luck!
damrkul 2 days ago 0 replies      
Lots of people neglect to mention that because of the entire program is 7000. If you break that down to 2.5 years, it's approx $2800 per year.

If you work for a reputable company, like I do, they do tuition reimbursement. My company just so happens to cover $5200 per year.

So inother words, I am getting the degree completely for free.

I have completed 7 classes so far, and have 3 left, which again, were all paid for.

omscs_is_great 2 days ago 0 replies      
Using a temp account. I don't think I would have gotten any interviews at the best of the best tech companies without it (I had an engineering BS in another field). I was only 8 classes in. So career wise, it's definitely worth it.

The classes take a lot of time (see https://omscentral.com), but the learning has been a lot of fun. I loved it.

satyargudimetla 2 days ago 0 replies      
So far I have completed 2 courses. It was really rewarding. I am learning plethora of technologies and subjects. I am really enjoying .Right now I am going at 1 course per semester. I started Spring 2017. I will gear up from next year and go for 2 per semester. Yes , there are limited courses online. But these would be good enough to start with. Good luck .
maverick2 2 days ago 1 reply      
I am a BA(Business Analyst) with mostly traditional Project Management duties. My bachelors was in CS, and I still love to delve into technical details of a solution. I do some data analytics for my product. But have been interested in more analytics driven roles and eventually find a Product Owner/Manager role.

Does anyone have insight if doing Georgia Tech's - Master of Science in Analytics will help me land such role?

sannee 1 day ago 1 reply      
It looks like they require a 4-year bachelor's degree. This seems to exclude european-educated students, as bachelor's are usually only 3-year degrees here. Has anyone had any experience with this?
root_axis 2 days ago 2 replies      
Anyone know of similar programs for undergrad? i.e. an online accredited CS bachelors from a real university.
ncfausti 2 days ago 0 replies      
Glad this was posted. I was admitted to Penn's MSE in CIS as well as OMSCS for the Fall. No funding for either. Penn is roughly $60k. I currently live in Philly. I'm curious to see what HN thinks would be the better option.
abhishekash 2 days ago 2 replies      
I am also interested to course but 7k USD is still high to be paid as lumpsum upfront. Is someone aware if that would be a staggered payment schedule so that I can pay from my savings as I accrue them.


aschampion 2 days ago 0 replies      
You may want to look at a previous recent discussion here on HN: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13382263
serg_chernata 2 days ago 0 replies      
I applied and got rejected due to not having my BS from a regionally accredited school, though it's nationally accredited. Very confused because their page implies students from all over the world attend. Bummer.
jondubois 2 days ago 1 reply      
After a bachelor degree, university isn't that useful for CS unless you want to get into serious AI research. I don't think it has much effect on salary or opportunities.
cdnsteve 2 days ago 1 reply      
Their SSL is currently broken and displaying warnings...https://www.omscs.gatech.edu/
soneca 2 days ago 0 replies      
Just to let here my thanks for all thoughtful answers! (as I can't edit my question anymore). Lots of good insights and useful links in this thread.
bitL 2 days ago 0 replies      
How is the difficulty of courses when comparing to edX's MIT's Underactuated Robotics or Stanford's Roughgarden's Algorithms?
artmageddon 2 days ago 0 replies      
It better be, my first class for the fall semester starts in a week!
nheskia 2 days ago 2 replies      
just wondering, is the admission process similar to other graduate programs? do you need GRE scores? letters of recommendation? what has been people's experiences around these requirements?
jinonoel 2 days ago 1 reply      
Are there any equivalent online PhD programs that are any good?
0xa 2 days ago 0 replies      
I'm speaking from my past experience as a hiring manager at a start up with outlier standards for performance and trajectory in software engineering and machine learning. I estimate I've screened tens of thousands of resumes and interviewed at least a thousand people in my career.

First and most important: your internships and work experience, and what you accomplished during those jobs. They should tell a story of increasing and accelerating personal growth, learning, challenge and passion. If you can share personal or class projects, even better.

After your experiences, your degrees will be considered based on the number of years each typically requires, with early graduation and multiple majors being notable.

 1. PhD, if you have one. A STEM PhD was particularly helpful for ML/Data science positions, but not required. 2. BS/BA (3-4 year degree) 3. MS/MEng (1-2 year degree)
Put another way, if you don't have a PhD, the MS/MEng program is a tiebreaker compared to your experience and undergrad credentials.

International students get a raw deal. The online masters will barely help you get a job or launch a career in the US. US universities appear to offer the chance to work for major US companies with a notable university (such as Georgia Tech) on your resume, only to feed their graduates into our broken immigration and work authorization system, H1-B indentured servitude and no replies from the countless companies that have an unspoken higher bar for those needing sponsorship.

To round out a few other contexts HN readers might experience:

If you are an international considering an on-campus MS/MEng, US universities are charging full price while giving you a credential of limited value and utility. Apply the same comments above but at a much higher price than GA Techs OMSCS.

If you are completing/just completed a less notable undergrad degree, paying for a masters program at an elite CS school (like GA Tech) is usually a bad deal. If it not a requirement for the positions you seek, it won't help your career chances much.

If you have an undergrad degree and your employer will pay/cover your MS/MEng at night/personal time (and that is your passion), awesome and go for it! It will be a lot of work and lost sleep to get everything out of the experience, but a lifelong investment in your growth and experience.

If you are completing/just completed a notable undergrad degree (tier-1, internationally recognized program), you don't need the masters. Feel free to get one for your learning, sense of self and building research connections while you ponder getting a PhD. The hiring and salary benefit will be very small--you are already the candidate every company wants to meet. If you decide to get a PhD, that will open some new doors but take 5+ years to get there.

At my previous company, we made it our forte and team passion to get authorization for employees--given a global pool of candidates and a hiring bar to match. I'm really proud of our effort here given the broken and unfair system. Sadly, many companies do not share this value or cannot justify the time, effort and expense, or cannot scale such a program to a larger number of employees across a less selective bar.

davidreiss 2 days ago 2 replies      
> I believe this program is a good complementary source of knowledge to become a better software developer.

That's something you could learn on your own. But your knowledge of "technologies" are more valuable to employers than CS degree - especially if you have work experience.

The tech industry isn't like academia ( economics ) where you have to build up credentials. Work on projects that deal with web technologies or even better learn the back end ( databases ) or even the middle tier/server code if you are a front-end developer.

Becoming a full-stack ( front-end, middle-tier and especially back-end ) is going to be far more important to employers than if you know what undecidability is or computational theory.

Degrees are very important if you want to break into the industry ( especially top tier corporations ). But if you are already work in the industry, employers want to see the technologies you are competent in.

If your employer is willing to pay for it and you have free time, then go for it. Learning is always a good thing. But if you want to further your career, go learn SQL ( any flavor ) and RDBMs technologies - SQL Server, Postgres, etc ( any you want but I recommend SQL Server Developer Edition if you are beginner on Windows OS as it is very beginner friendly from installation to client tools ).

A full-stack web developer is rare and you could even sell yourself as an architect/management. That's a difference from being a $60K web developer and a $200K full stack developer/architect.

user5994461 2 days ago 1 reply      
Online courses are worth nothing.

Employers will ignore you the second they find out your master is not legit.

Kubernetes at GitHub githubengineering.com
401 points by darwhy  1 day ago   126 comments top 15
iagooar 1 day ago 2 replies      
Love to see more Kubernetes success stories.

I work for an ISP and we are trying to write another success story ;) As an ISP, we have tons of constraints in terms of infrastructure. We're not allowed to use any public cloud services. At the same time, the in-house infrastructure is either too limited, or managed via spreadsheets by a bunch of dysfunctional teams.

For my team, Kubernetes has been truly a life saver when it comes to deploying applications. We're still working on making our cluster production-ready, but we're getting there very fast. Some people are already queuing up to get to deploy their applications on Kubernetes :D

What I especially love about Kubernetes is how solid the different concepts are and how they make you think differently about (distributed) systems.

It sure takes a lot of time to truly grasp it, and even more so to be confident managing and deploying it as Ops / SRE. But once you get it, it starts to feel like second nature.

Plus the benefits, in almost any possible way, are huge.

shock 1 day ago 1 reply      
> During this migration, we encountered an issue that persists to this day: during times of high load and/or high rates of container churn, some of our Kubernetes nodes will kernel panic and reboot.

Considering that Kubernetes doesn't modify the kernel, this issue sounds like is present in mainline and kernel devs should be involved.

erulabs 1 day ago 2 replies      
If you're running Kube on AWS, make sure you install the proper drivers! For Ubuntu, that's the `linux-aws` apt package.


Missing ENA and ixgbevf can be a real performance killer!

skewart 1 day ago 1 reply      
> Several qualities of Kubernetes stood out from the other platforms we evaluated: the vibrant open source community supporting the project, the first run experience (which allowed us to deploy a small cluster and an application in the first few hours of our initial experiment), and a wealth of information available about the experience that motivated its design.

It's interesting that the reasons they cite for choosing Kubernetes over alternatives are entirely driven by 'developer experience' and not at all technical. It shows how critical community development, good documentation, and marketing are to building a successful open source project.

philips 1 day ago 1 reply      
Really exciting stuff, happy to see the Github team launch this.

Kubernetes is becoming the goto for folks needing both their own physical metal presence and cloud footprint too. And the magic of Kubernetes is that it has APIs that can actually give teams the confidence to run and reuse deployment strategies in all environments. Even across clouds.

If you are like Github and want to use Kubernetes across clouds (AWS, Azure, etc) & bare metal and do deploy/customize that infra using Terraform checkout CoreOS Tectonic[1]. It also tackles more of the subtle things that aren't covered in this article like cluster management, LDAP/SAML authentication, user authorization, etc.

[1] https://coreos.com/tectonic

DDub 1 day ago 13 replies      
We're currently looking at moving our applications to k8s, and was wondering what deployment tools people are using? This week we are evaluating spinnaker, helm and bash wrappers for kubectl. There is concern over adding too many layers of abstraction and that KISS is the best approach.
sandGorgon 1 day ago 7 replies      
> We enhanced GLB, our internal load balancing service, to support Kubernetes NodePort Services.

Everyone does this - because Kubernetes Achilles heel is its ingress. It is still built philosophically as a post-loadbalancing system .

This is the single biggest reason why using Docker Swarm is so pleasant.

dookahku 1 day ago 2 replies      
Any favorted training for learning Kubernetes?

I found this one so far:https://classroom.udacity.com/courses/ud615

But any extra courses/trainings is always appreciated

drdaeman 1 day ago 1 reply      
How hard (and how realistic) it is to actually get a reasonable understanding (and then stay up-to-date) with Kubernetes internals? Is there any go-to reading material?

We had ran another large-footprint container management system (not K8s, but also popular), and when its DNS component started to eat all the CPU on all nodes, best I was able to do fast,was just scrapping the whole thing and quickly replacing it with some quick-and-dirty Compose files and manual networking. At least, we were back to normal in an hour or so. Obvious steps (recreating nodes) failed, logs looked perfectly normal, quick strace/ltrace gave no insights, and trying to debug the problem in detail would've taken more time.

But that was only possible because all we ran was small 2.5-node system, not even a proper full HA or anything. And it had resembled Compose close enough.

Since then I'm really wary about using larger black boxes for critical parts. Just Linux kernel and Docker can bring enough headache, and K8s on top of this looks terrifying. Simplicity has value. GitHub can afford to deal with a lot of complexity, but a tiny startup probably can't.

Or am I just unnecessarily scaring myself?

dmart 1 day ago 0 replies      
> Enhancements to our internal deployment application to support deploying Kubernetes resources from a repository into a Kubernetes namespace, as well as the creation of Kubernetes secrets from our internal secret store.

Would love to hear more about this was accomplished. I'm currently exploring a similar issue (pulling per-namespace Vault secrets into a cluster). From what I've found, it looks like more robust secrets management is scheduled for the next few k8s releases, but in the meantime have been thinking about a custom solution that would poll Vault and update secrets in k8s when necessary.

lukaskroepfl 7 hours ago 0 replies      
hey! we at bitmovin have been using k8s for quite a while for our infrastructure and on premise deployments. In case you're interested in how we do multi stage canary deployments, check out: http://blog.kubernetes.io/2017/04/multi-stage-canary-deploym...
Yeroc 1 day ago 2 replies      
One thing I would have liked to have seen addressed in the article is whether the new architecture requires additional hardware (presumably) to operate and if so how much more.
lobster_johnson 1 day ago 1 reply      
I'd be interested in hearing what kind of autoscaling system they use for their Ruby pods.

We're running a few (legacy we're moving to Go) Ruby apps in production on Kubernetes. We're using Puma, which is very similar to Unicorn, and it's unclear what the optimal strategy here is. I've not benchmarked this in any systematic way.

For example, in theory you could make a single deployment run a single Unicorn worker, then set resources:requests:cpu and resources:limits:cpu both to 1.0, and then add a horizontal pod autoscaler that's set to scale the deployment up on, say, 80% CPU.

But that gives you terrible request rates, and will be choking long before it's reaching 80% CPU. So it's better to give it, say, 4 workers. At the same time, it's counter-productive to allocate it 4 CPUs, because Ruby will generally not be able to utilize them fully. At the same time, more workers mean a lot more memory usage, obviously.

I did some quick benchmarking, and found I could give them 4 workers but still constrain to 1 CPU, and that would still give me a decent qps.

daxfohl 22 hours ago 2 replies      
Curious, being a RoR app, did github ever run on Heroku? (Obviously googling "github heroku" is just a million tutorials on how to integrate.)
Alan01252 1 day ago 2 replies      
I'm curious to what this means for the existing puppet code base, is it now irrelevant, or are there still usages for it in the k8s world?
How Postgres Makes Transactions Atomic brandur.org
348 points by craigkerstiens  1 day ago   47 comments top 9
brandur 1 day ago 2 replies      
Author here with just a quick note that writing this was a pretty great learning experience. Postgres has always been the ultimate black box it does some amazing things, but I generally have no idea how.

I read a lot of Postgres code to get this finished, and I'm happy to say that for a codebase with so many authors, the quality of Postgres' is very high. Like any complex program it can be a little hard to trace through, but most of the naming is pretty self-explanatory, and it comes with some really amazing comments that walk you through the high-level design. I'd definitely recommend taking a look if anyone is curious.

munro 1 day ago 2 replies      
> https://brandur.org/assets/postgres-atomicity/heap-tuple-vis...

These diagrams are really beautiful, I love the subtle separation in the lines showing that they're made of hypens. Is there some software that makes these easy to generate?

pselbert 1 day ago 0 replies      
This is precisely the kind of article I hope for when I browse the front page.

Thank you for all the effort you put into writing this. It is clearly the product of a lot of effort and craft.

aneutron 1 day ago 2 replies      
As a beginner in the software engineering realm, I cannot thank people who give these kind of write-ups enough.It helps me explore patterns and beautiful pieces of engineering.On a side note I wonder if the functions are really named like that or did the author rename some for clarity?
combatentropy 20 hours ago 1 reply      
Thank you for the article, but I do have one quibble:

 > We could ensure that any process takes out an exclusive lock > on a file before reading or writing it, or we could push all > operations through a single flow control point so that they > only run one at a time. Not only are these workarounds slow, > but they wont scale up to allow us to make our database fully > ACID-compliant
As much as I like Postgres, I also like SQLite, which uses a simple file lock and yet is utterly acidic (https://www.sqlite.org/transactional.html). From SQLite's FAQ:

 > SQLite allows multiple processes to have the database file > open at once, and for multiple processes to read the database > at once. When any process wants to write, it must lock the > entire database file for the duration of its update. But that > normally only takes a few milliseconds. . . . > > If your application has a need for a lot of concurrency, then > you should consider using a client/server database. But > experience suggests that most applications need much less > concurrency than their designers imagine.
--- https://www.sqlite.org/faq.html#q5

christophilus 15 hours ago 1 reply      
"Every transaction in the database is applied in serial order, with a global lock ensuring that only one is being confirmed committed or aborted at a time." Is this true? I assumed you could transact in parallel, if there was no conflict, e.g. different tables were involved or maybe even different rows.
sgt 1 day ago 3 replies      
Postgres is entirely designed around the idea of durability, which dictates that even in extreme events like a crash or power loss, committed transactions should stay committed.

Although if I had a $100 for every time I've had DB corruption in Postgres over the years...

That being said, since 9.4 (or maybe 9.5) these incidents have mostly stopped happening and it's been remarkably stable.

andrewshatnyy 1 day ago 1 reply      
Those diagrams are badass! Anyone knows what was used to make em?
exabrial 1 day ago 3 replies      
Wait, they're -not- atomic? This surprises me because of the number of comparisons between MySql and Postgres... Comparing apples to oranges
Chris Lattner Joins Google Brain techcrunch.com
276 points by janober  3 days ago   102 comments top 10
guelo 3 days ago 16 replies      
I find it strange that probably the most successful and influential compiler and PL developer in a generation doesn't seem to be interested in compilers or PL anymore.
eanzenberg 3 days ago 2 replies      
Super interesting developments..

Also, re:

>AI can't democratize itself (yet?) so I'll help make it more accessible to everyone!

This needs to happen more on the software side. You can buy a world-class quad-gpu machine for about half the cost of a vehicle. You can build a world-class single-gpu machine (what I have) for a fifth of that. It's literally amazing how accessible the hardware is, compared to almost any other science which requires 7 figure funding to get world-class results.

The software, the learning, the math, all need to become more and more accessible so more people can pick up and train an algorithm.

bitL 3 days ago 1 reply      
Just wondering - does a normal person stand a chance to join Google Brain, or do you need to make node.js, swift, own self-driving car or another crazy project to get in?
tambourine_man 3 days ago 1 reply      
>he created the Land compiler and LLVM.

I think you mean Clang and LLVM

tyingq 3 days ago 3 replies      
Is Google's work culture more like Apple or Tesla? Curious if this is likely to address whatever about Telsa wasn't keeping him happy. Or maybe it was more about the specific work he was tasked to do?
kensai 3 days ago 3 replies      
I was kind of worried he would not find anything... :D

Seriously, I wonder if stars like Lattner even need to submit a CV or their mail simply floods with offers.

tambourine_man 3 days ago 1 reply      
I have zero experience with this, but I imagine working for three major competitors in such a short time can lead to some complicated situations regarding industrial secrets.

Compilers (specially open source) may be a stretch, but Tesla AI and Google AI? Can a contract clause protect one company when you're working for the other on the exact same field?

Again, I have no idea what I'm talking about, just curious.

tambourine_man 3 days ago 1 reply      
Worrisome for Apple that its AI efforts weren't interesting enough to keep Lattner, or win him back.
s73ver_ 3 days ago 0 replies      
Swift on Android confirmed.
tatoalo 3 days ago 1 reply      
Interesting as a company change (IMHO), from privacy-focused Apple to Google... :D
ProtonMail Now Supports Bitcoin Payments protonmail.com
332 points by vabmit  1 day ago   183 comments top 21
MollyR 1 day ago 13 replies      
I'm thinking of switching my business email to protonmail from gmail.

Any users like it ?

The whole google memo revealed google employees are not as trustworthy as I thought. All the social media talk of blacklists, and inquisition tactics from some of upper management is bad for business.

I've already gotten emails from clients asking me to change their business google services to something else (anything else in their own words).

blfr 1 day ago 1 reply      
If you like Proton features and want to move away from Gmail, consider Mailpile[1]. It's almost ready, there's a release candidate and packages for Debian/Ubuntu; it offers to protect your data with a master password like Proton; it supports GPG which with all its problems is still the way to encrypt your emails; and you can run it on your own server. Best of all it's open source and written in Python. You can know exactly what it does with your messages.

Mailpile is an email client (MUA) so you will need a server (MTA). At first you can try it out with your regular ISP, even Gmail. Later you can set up your own server. Setup is a little involved but much less than people tell you and, if you choose a competently run distro, requires very little ongoing maintenance.

With your own server, you can have it working exactly as you like. Export feature? No problem, you have direct access to the maildir, mailbox or the database. Want a catch-all? One switch in the config. You will have little trouble finding a provider who accepts your preferred method of payment, too.

[1] https://www.mailpile.is/

csomar 1 day ago 3 replies      
This is a little bit "late". Fastmail has supported Bitcoin payment for a very long time. In fact, I was surprised last year when I wanted to try proton mail and they didn't have Bitcoin payments.
teleproto 1 day ago 1 reply      
But are they open source yet?

Sure, you can find the web client sources. How about the server, and the mobile apps? The website makes a big deal of them being open source after all ( https://protonmail.com/blog/protonmail-open-source/ ).

trustworthy 7 hours ago 0 replies      
Very good initiative. Happy to see that you're moving in the right direction. Remember, though, that Bitcoin is many things and anonymous is not one of them. It's pseudo-anonymous at best. You should consider accepting the open-source, community-driven, private criptocurrency Monero that has been around for many years now. If you have plans on adopting Monero, send me a message and I'll be glad to guide you on the right direction.
Strategizer 7 hours ago 0 replies      
They have been accepting Bitcoin for a long time already, now its just integrated better.

The whole talk about "freedom and privacy" in relation to Bitcoin made me a bit nauseous. These are tech guys. It destroys trust for them to be blabbering nonsense about privacy like this.

jmeyer2k 1 day ago 7 replies      
Bitcoin is not anonymous.
TheSpecialist 7 hours ago 1 reply      
If I go for the highest paid tier, it comes with Proton VPN. Ist that only ONE VPN user or do all users of that tier get to use ProtonVPN?
BusinessInsider 7 hours ago 0 replies      
Nice, but they really should actually use Bitcoin cash.

Legacy Bitcoin fees can be higher than their actual monthly plans.

yakshaving_jgt 15 hours ago 0 replies      
I want to use ProtonMail (and will pay for it), but lack of IMAP is a deal-breaker. Some of the other commenters mentioned IMAP is in beta; can I get on this too? I'm currently managing an iRedMail instance and it's not ideal.
wakkaflokka 1 day ago 2 replies      
I've been forwarding all of my email from Gmail to ProtonMail, just to see how I like the ProtonMail interface. So far I'm liking it a lot. A little weirdness on getting timely notifications on Android. But I might switch completely.

Anybody make the switch?

txmx2000 1 day ago 1 reply      
Disappointed that there's no mention of a discount. Cryptocurrency payments will save them a lot of money. Web/email hosting is an industry with a high risk if fraud.
blunte 1 day ago 4 replies      
More "progress" from ProtonMail, while they still provide no way to export emails in bulk. They recommend you forward every individual email or print it.

The Export feature has been an open request since before March 2015.

Another feature which would give users a way to get their mail out of PM is the ability to check mail from a client like Outlook or Thunderbird. That has been an open feature request since before February 2015.

They, as with other companies that refuse to listen to their customers, will eventually fail. Of course failure may mean being bought by a larger competitor (and a few of the bad decision-makers cashing out)...

jron 1 day ago 0 replies      
It doesn't look like they have an option to validate account creation from a bitcoin payment instead of an SMS/email. I suspect it would be a popular feature.
GigabyteCoin 1 day ago 1 reply      
>"You can now get secure email anonymously"

How exactly... by paying with Bitcoin?

And this is coming from a security-conscious company?

Unless I mined the Bitcoins myself, and never spent the remaining 12.45 BTC that I mined (after presumably spending 0.05 BTC on protonmail)... it is far from "Anonymous".

If they started accepting Zcash, however...

brewdad 1 day ago 0 replies      
I've played around with ProtonMail in the past but never made the switch. I see now that there is a one password mode that seems more convenient than my legacy 2 password mode. I already have 2FA setup. Given that, is one password mode safe enough or are you still using 2 passwords?
kristianp 1 day ago 1 reply      
Which will be quickly converted back to Euro or Swiss Francs for them by their payment provider. I doubt they'll keep any of that bitcoin.
rtpg 1 day ago 2 replies      
So this product is still priced in Euros, though you can pay in BTC.

Are there major products out there priced in Bitcoin yet?

cevn 1 day ago 2 replies      
Can I pay for ProtonVPN in coin as well?
firekvz 1 day ago 1 reply      
now that we are talking about email. what is a good open source email server to use nowdays? or some free provider where i can use my own domain?
thinbeige 1 day ago 4 replies      
PR. Nothing else. Who wants to pay with Bitcoin when Bitcoin is skyrocketing like crazy?
Blood Test That Spots Tumor-Derived DNA in Early-Stage Cancers hopkinsmedicine.org
261 points by ncw96  8 hours ago   47 comments top 11
gourneau 4 hours ago 3 replies      
I work for another player Guardant Health. We are the Liquid Biopsy market leaders right now. We just raised $360M Series E from SoftBank.

If you find this type of thing interesting and want to be part of it, we are hiring lots of folks. My team is looking for bioinformaticians, Python hackers, and machine learning people. Please reach out to me if you want to know more jgourneau@guardanthealth.com

conradev 6 hours ago 1 reply      
There is also Freenome, which raised a $65m Series A to bring something similar to market:

> Last year, we raised $5.5 million to prove out the potential of this technology. Now, its time to make sure that its safe and ready for the broader population.


AlexDilthey 40 minutes ago 0 replies      
All fair enough. The two big immediate challenges in the field are i) that the tumor-derived fraction of total cfDNA can be as low as 1:10000 (stage I) and ii) that it is difficult to make Illumina sequencing more accurate than 1 error in 1000 sequenced bases (in which case the 1:10000 signal is drowned out). This paper uses some clever statistical tricks to reduce Illimina sequencing error; one of these tricks is to leverage population information, i.e. the more samples you sequence the better your understanding of (non-cancer-associated) systematic errors. This follows a long tradition in statistical genetics of using multi-sample panels to improve analysis of individual samples. There are also biochemical approaches like SafeSeq or Duplex Sequencing to reduce sequencing error.

Not-so-obvious point #1 is that the presence of cancer-associated mutations in blood != cancer. You find cancer-associated mutations in the skin of older probands, and assumedly many of the sampling sites would never turn into melanomas. A more subtle point is that cfDNA is likely generated by dying cells, i.e. a weak cancer signature in blood might also be indicative of the immune system doing its job.

Point #2 is that it's not necessarily about individual mutations, which are, due to the signal-to-noise ratio alluded to above, difficult to pick up. One can also look at the total representation of certain genes in cfDNA (many cancers have gene amplifications or deletions, which are easier to pick up because they affect thousands of bases at the same time), and the positioning of individual sequenced molecules relative to the reference genome. It seems that these positions are correlated with gene activities (transcription) in the cells that the cfDNA comes from, and cancer cells have distinct patterns if gene activity.

McKayDavis 7 hours ago 1 reply      
I haven't read the referenced study, but I'm sure this is using the same (or very similar) cell free DNA (cfDNA) sequencing techniques currently used clinically for Non Invasive Prenatal Testing (NIPT) to screen for genetic defects such as trisomy 21 (Down Syndrome).

NIPT is a non-invasive blood screening test that is quickly becoming the clinical standard of care. Many insurance companies now cover the entire cost of NIPT screening for for at-risk pregnancies (e.g. women of "Advanced Maternal Age" (35yo+)). The debate is moving to whether it should be utilized/covered for average-risk pregnancies as well.

[1] http://capsprenatal.com/about-nipt/

[2] https://www.genomeweb.com/molecular-diagnostics/aetna-wont-c...

hprotagonist 6 hours ago 1 reply      
Slowly but surely. This isn't even close to a real diagnostic, but it's a hopeful proof of concept.

I really do wish detection studies would publish a ROC curve, though, or at least d'.

maddyboo 3 hours ago 3 replies      
Possibly a silly question, but is it possible for a 'healthy' person who doesn't have any cancer risk factors to get a test like this done?
amitutk 7 hours ago 3 replies      
Didn't Grail raise a billion dollars to do just this?
ziggzagg 2 hours ago 1 reply      
When this test has a near 100% success rate, how does it help the patients? Can it really prevent cancer?
AlexCoventry 5 hours ago 1 reply      
> They found none of the cancer-derived mutations among blood samples of 44 healthy individuals.

Is 98% specificity adequate for a cancer test?

melling 7 hours ago 3 replies      
According to Craig Venter, early detection is what we need to eliminate cancer:


I guess most are treatable if caught early?

jonathanjaeger 7 hours ago 0 replies      
Tangent: I'm invested in a small cap stock, Sophoris Bio, that's in a P2B study for prostrate cancer with a drug developed out of Johns Hopkins called PRX302 (Topsalysin).

That and the article about blood tests shows there's a lot they're working on for noninvasive or minimally invasive procedures to help prevent cancer early on.

Im 35 and I may suddenly have lost the rest of my life medium.com
342 points by fhrow4484  2 days ago   136 comments top 34
rcarrigan87 2 days ago 4 replies      
My brother was diagnosed with a rare form of sarcoma (cancer) at age 35. Basically was given about a 10% to live. 180 servings of chemo/radiation later we started lining up hospice and he prepared to say goodbye to his 2 young kids and wife.

Last ditch effort was an experimental drug. Out of 150 people in the trial, he's the only one alive 12 years later. 6 years ago he started a company that is about to hit 8 figures in revenue and over 300 employees.

Life can definitely have a lot of swings.

lgessler 2 days ago 6 replies      
With much sensitivity to the physical and emotional turmoil the author must be experiencing right now, I disagree with his advice:

> Stop just assuming you have a full lifetime to do whatever it is you dream of doing.

Rare and catastrophic events like this that can severely shorten your life are ones you should not plan for. If they occur, that's very unfortunate, and maybe you'll still have a contingency plan that can rearrange your plans to fit the remainder of your life, but he was still right to have arranged his life from the start to maximize his expected (in the statistical sense) impact:

> Before this diagnosis Id been thinking of my 1st 35 yearsaside from being a ton of fun and travelas preparation. I felt like I was building a platform (savings, networks, skills, experience) that I could then use in my second act to make a real contribution, to make my mark

"Most of the time", he would have been right to use the early part of his life to make long-term investments in his development. It's just that this time it turned out to be the wrong choice.

Mz 2 days ago 1 reply      
PSA for anyone reading this: Colorectal cancer for younger people seems to be on the rise. They don't seem to know why.

My father had colon cancer and was not expected to survive it. I think he was 69 when he was finally diagnosed. He had put off seeing a doctor because he thought it was "just old age" and it was quite advanced by the time he was diagnosed. He did survive it and died, iirc, just short of his 89th or 90th birthday.

A lot of my relatives have had cancer, some of them more than once. Few of them have died from it. So, I tend to be biased in assuming that it can be conquered, even when the doctors say the odds are long against.

I know I have seen quotes on HN about how the odds are long against startups and other things, but how you can work to overcome those odds. I think it is a bit like that.

Good luck in your journey. Best wishes on your outcome.

maxerickson 2 days ago 7 replies      
Any amount of unexplained rectal bleeding is reason enough to schedule an appointment with a doctor.

The doctor is likely to recommend a colonoscopy. Removal of polyps (a likely source of bleeding) reduces the chances of cancer developing and can only be done during a colonoscopy.

neilwilson 1 day ago 0 replies      
Remember that the anecdotes on here serve two purposes.

(i) to show that the aggregate does not inform the individual. As a species we are too influenced by aggregate stats. There is huge variation in individual responses.

(ii) history is written by the winners. Those people who did not survive cancer are not here to write about it and those surrounding them tend to want to forget and move on. Survivor bias is a real thing.

Not only is this story a reminder that life is short, but also that we must battle each day to keep perspective when the world and our human limitations are always trying to skew our views.

Given the tensions in the world, seeing things from the other points of view has never been more important.

lohankin 2 days ago 1 reply      
Had same thing at age 44. Stage 2.5, was given 60% chance. Had chemo and radiation. There's something I can share with you if you write to tatumizer at gmail dot com. I really hope I can help.I'm 60 now, still working as a programmer.
Viper007Bond 2 days ago 0 replies      
Last fall at the age of 32, I was diagnosed with leukemia (ALL). I went from a completely normal life to being in the ER in just a week (thought I just had the flu in between). My life has been completely on hold for the past 10 months while I deal with this and the resulting bone marrow transplant.

Thankfully ALL has a very high success rate for treatment and long term survival, but it has certainly made me realize how unpredictable life can be. I was putting things off that I wanted to do with my life and once I finish recovering, I certainly will work to correct that.

Don't wait until tomorrow.

_rockit_ 1 day ago 0 replies      
It took a case of endocarditis, a 30% chance of survival, two heart valves being replaced, a pacemaker installed, and another brush with death during the 6 month recovery, all at age 24, to wake me up. Ever since then, one thing I've really wanted, with all of my heart, is for people to wake up - see that this is not forever and tomorrow is not guaranteed. Listen to me, listen to the author - please, do what you need to do to enable yourself to pursue the dreams you really have, stop "just getting by".
asldfkweiorz 1 day ago 1 reply      
Good luck with that.

Shit happens; my wife was stabbed on the way back home at 29 and has been in a coma and now vegetative state since. If someone has a good way to deal with this crap, please do let me know.

spraak 2 days ago 4 replies      
It's never too late to turn to the Dharma. I lost a child recently and the only hope I can find out of it has been to study what the Buddha taught.

> if we start thinking about impermanence now, while we still have time to find skillful means to deal with it, then later we will not be caught unaware. Even though in the short term the contemplation of death and impermanence might cause discomfort, in the long term it will actually save us from greater suffering. [1]

1. http://rinpoche.com/teachings/sevenpoints.htm

aiyodev 1 day ago 0 replies      
Every time I read a story like this it makes me angry that $700 million were wasted on Theranos instead of being invested in cancer research. Why isn't Elizabeth Holmes in prison yet?
LordHumungous 2 days ago 0 replies      
Visited a GP about a year ago due to blood in my stool, and he said it was hemorrhoids, but it hasn't gone away since. Going to schedule another appointment this week thanks to this article.
rockit 1 day ago 0 replies      
It took a case of endocarditis, a 30% chance of survival, two heart valves being replaced, a pacemaker installed, and another brush with death during the 6 month recovery, all at age 24, to wake me up. Ever since then, one thing I've really wanted, with all of my heart, is for people to wake up - see that this is not forever and tomorrow is not guaranteed. Listen to me, listen to the author - please, do what you need to do to enable yourself to pursue the dreams you really have, stop "just getting by".
luckydude 2 days ago 0 replies      
Do your research. I'm not an expert, not even close, but a buddy of mine pushed his wife's curve way, way out. Maybe you can too.

She has stage 4 lung cancer, it's spread to her brain. If she gone to Stanford, like she wanted, they would have done whole brain radiation to try and blast the brain tumors. The problem with brain tumors is that there is that barrier that keeps bad stuff out of the brain and it only lets small stuff through, chemo tends to be large.

My buddy started researching and asking questions (he's business/sales but I think he's an engineer). The 5 year survival rate is less than 1% for stage 4 lung cancer. So he started asking doctors and hospitals "what's your 5 year survival rate". Everyone pointed him to national stats and he said "no, I know those numbers, what are yours?". El Camino Hospital publishes their numbers because they are much, much better: 15%. I know, 15% isn't great but it is a boat load better than under 1%.

So they went there. El Camino has a different approach to this sort of situation, they use some chemo (avastin maybe?) that is small celled and gets through the brain barrier. They also did pin point radiation.

The results: it's 2 years out, I think 2 years and 1 month, and my buddy's wife isn't fine but she's damn close. She's on an every 3 week chemo cycle, she typically gets 11 good days and 10 crappy-bad days. They both retired (I still pay his health insurance which is a big deal) and bought a travel trailer, do 2-5 days trips up and down California. They are fully aware that they are trying to cram all of their retirement into a few years and so far are doing a great job, their doctor loves it (apparently a lot of cancer patients sit on their butt, just waiting for the next chemo session).

If she had gone to Stanford, while the radiation would have likely wiped out the tumors, it also has this little side effect called dementia, happens very quickly. So this outcome is much, much better and it only happened because my buddy did his homework.

And one sort of cool thing happened: this all started before my company imploded and I gathered the team and said "I want to send Bob on vacation. We've only got so much runway left so if you don't want to use some of that money on Bob, I get it, I won't judge, I'll pay for the vacation myself." It was unanimous, they wanted the vacation to be from the team (I was so proud of them, that's the team I wanted). So we sent them back east to see the fall colors, they had a great time.

It's worth stating that I've watched my mother-in-law and my father die of cancer (and while my love for my dad is pretty obvious, I loved my mother-in-law as well, we got along great). The thing that I've learned is the second you know you have something that is life threatening do whatever you want to do RIGHT NOW. I pushed for the vacation thing for Bob because my mother-in-law didn't want to have friends over "until she was better". I deeply regret not just arranging to have all her friends come in. She died pretty quickly.

So I don't want to be morbid, or show any lack of hope, but there is the possibility that OP is in the best shape he's gonna be. So use that time to have some fun, build some memories, whatever you think is good. If you kick cancer's ass you'll have some memories to look back on, if you don't, your family will have some to hold onto. Do not listen to the doctors, they tend to be overly hopeful and give you a false sense of hope (I get it, it's kind of all they can do, but we would have liked a more realistic view. They let my mother-in-law think she was going back to work).

Good luck, cancer sucks.

Edit: explain that lots of patients don't live between chemo sessions and a typo.

tarr11 2 days ago 1 reply      
Colonoscopy was a pretty fast and painless experience for me. The prep drink I had to take the day before was the worst part.

Being worried is definitely not a reason to put it off!

open_bear 2 days ago 0 replies      
See significant change in 'going to toilet' procedure or blood in stool? Go to the doctor! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tQIHJmvnzwg
Raed667 2 days ago 0 replies      
I'm sorry about this, really hope you will get through it.

But this gets me thinking about a couple of bleedings I had a few months ago and totally dismissed. I will definitively see a doctor soon.

sp821543 2 days ago 3 replies      
Scott, I'm sorry about this.

Why isn't the medical community looking for early warnings? relatively cheap tests for hs-crp, IL-6, TNF-alpha could be helpful. Inflammation is the precursor to disease.

Do yourselves a favor & ask your doctor for the hs-crp test to measure inflammation.

cicero 2 days ago 0 replies      
I'm praying for you, Scott.
lhuser123 22 hours ago 0 replies      
Life is a strange thing. One day you can have everything and the next nothing. Then, answers are never enough. And you're left with the option to do the best with what you still have.
zocoi 2 days ago 1 reply      
Just out of curiosity, what can an average Joe do to protect his legacy and ensure good outcome for his family? Cancer insurance, any other options?
ringaroundthetx 2 days ago 0 replies      
> Don't assume you have a lifetime to pursue your dreams.

But will this change our perception of people in their 20s-30s that do pursue their dreams and are behind in their careers and finances?

At what point is a quarter/mid-life crisis not just an acceptable adult YOLO?

The author has some initial regrets on building up their savings and network, and I wonder if additional perspectives will be made by me posting this

dvt 2 days ago 0 replies      
My grandmother had breast cancer about a decade ago and it was grueling for the whole family. She went into remission after aggressive chemo, but I pray every day no one else in my family will be afflicted with this terrible disease and that the hard working scientists and researchers out there will soon find a cure.

This puts my own trivial problems into perspective. I hope you make it. God bless.

superobserver 2 days ago 1 reply      
Stop eating anything grown in the US or under the domain of corporate farming, anything grown with chemical (Monsanto/Bayer) pesticides, and look for as much communally, organic grown food as you can. Why has IBS exploded in recent decades? Miracle grow for cancer is literally being added to the food supply.
RickJWag 2 days ago 0 replies      
So sorry to read that. Good luck to the author. I'd love to read a happy follow-up in 10 years.
jacquesm 2 days ago 0 replies      
That's so terribly sad.

That highlit bit should be tattooed on everybody's forehead at birth so you see it every day. Lots of wisdom in there.

zoom6628 2 days ago 0 replies      
Best wishes. Be positive. Love your kids and family - the best legacy is what they keep in their hearts.
faragon 2 days ago 0 replies      
Don't surrender, Scott.
sAbakumoff 1 day ago 1 reply      
why did it bring so much attention? Some guy has been diagnosed with cancer, that happens every day.
theklub 2 days ago 0 replies      
I'm sorry, I hope you get through it.
Balgair 2 days ago 0 replies      
Allow me to be profane for a moment:



Start Here, please!

davidreiss 2 days ago 0 replies      
My uncle was diagnosed with cancer last july and died 3 months later. Left behind a wife and two kids. The holidays was rather depressing last year.

He was an athlete who ran in marathons. Never smoked or drank. But cancer still took him. Such a terrible disease.

imaginenore 2 days ago 1 reply      
Lie, cheat, and steal if you have to. I'd bribe medical staff just to get the best experimental treatments if you can't get there via legal means.
andreasgonewild 2 days ago 2 replies      
I'm sorry to hear that; if you let them in there with their gadgets; they will find a reason to cut, medicate and radiate; that's unfortunately just the way things are. These are not the only options, not even the best options, for patients. Get a second opinion, and a third; preferably from outside of Big Pharma. You might have to make some tough lifestyle choices; like seriously cutting down on meat, alcohol, sugar and stress; but your body has an unlimited potential to heal itself when given the chance. Be well and don't panic; remember, mind over matter; how you feel will affect the outcome more than anything they could come up with.
Intel CEO leaves American Manufacturing Council intel.com
285 points by RandVal30142  2 days ago   370 comments top 7
otalp 2 days ago 5 replies      
Major companies that still have representatives in the council: GM, Blackrock, BCG, Walmart, Boeing, Pepsi, IBM, GE, Dow, Dell, Whirlpool, Ford, Johnson&Johnson, Lockheed Martin, US Steel, 3M, Corning

Everyone who has left: Uber(Travel Ban and #DeleteUber), Disney(Paris withdrawal), Tesla/SpaceX(Paris Withdrawal). And now Merck, Under Armour and Intel(all left after failure to condemn white supremacists)

Dirlewanger 2 days ago 5 replies      
It's like a lose-lose. Stay on the council, you ostensibly are committed to keeping manufacturing jobs in the US, but could be seen as complicit of Trump. Leave, and you're making a stand against Trump...while at the same time leaving one of the few good things he has going for him. And let's be honest, without some sort of external coercion, these companies aren't going to stay in the US.
vowelless 2 days ago 1 reply      
I think more people need to resign from such positions. Good on Krzanich.
jacquesm 2 days ago 1 reply      
Merck's CEO did this too.
JustSomeNobody 2 days ago 3 replies      
This position probably had very little political influence. However, why not stay and use whatever influence you may have to make a difference? Is it just not possible anymore to stay and disagree?
MichaelBurge 2 days ago 2 replies      
> I am not a politician. I am an engineer who has spent most of his career working in factories that manufacture the worlds most advanced devices. Yet, it is clear even to me that nearly every issue is now politicized to the point where significant progress is impossible. Promoting American manufacturing should not be a political issue.

There's something I can get behind. Angry people have a positive feedback loop, so if we all collectively talked about Monads there'd be fewer problems.

bitL 2 days ago 9 replies      
"A house divided against itself cannot stand." -- Abraham Lincoln

Pretty worrying to observe the polarization in the US where IMO both left and right are full of extremist views and moderates have no audible voice.

Feeling bad about feeling bad can make you feel worse berkeley.edu
261 points by RKoutnik  3 days ago   133 comments top 27
lisper 3 days ago 5 replies      
Something I wish my parents had told me when I was growing up:

You, the thing listening to this advice, is just a small part of a greater whole, much of which you (the thing listening to this advice) are not consciously aware of. This is because you were built by your genes to be good mainly at one thing: reproducing. That's all your genes care about. They don't care about your happiness or achievements or having a fulfilled life. In fact, they don't even really "care" about reproducing, except the same way that water cares about flowing downhill.

Your negative emotions are real. The pain you feel is real. But it's not you. It's something that is being done to you. In that regard it is exactly the same as physical pain, which is also not part of you, but rather something done to you. The fact that you're depressed is no more a character flaw than the fact that it hurts when you skin your knee.

aphextron 3 days ago 5 replies      
I've come to accept this with regards to sexist/racist thoughts. Once you realize that it is a normal, ingrained biological urge to have these thoughts as a result of human evolution and cultural conditioning, it frees you to stop "feeling bad" about having those thoughts and trying to block them out, so that you can objectively assess the flawed assumptions behind them and reason yourself past them without the need for self shaming.
egypturnash 3 days ago 1 reply      
I feel like this validates my tendency to deal with a serious Low Mood by turning out the lights, lying on the floor with headphones on, and listening to the saddest, loneliest music in my collection for a while. I'm gonna feel sad whatever I do, and I may as well make some time to give in to really feeling sad and getting it out of the way.

When I feel bad I generally do a quick mental checklist: Have I drunk any water lately? Have I eaten? Have I had my pills? Usually the answer to at least one of those is 'no' and I feel better after correcting them. Then since my need for a warm place to sleep is pretty well settled, it jumps up a few notches to checking when the last time I cuddled someone was, how I feel about my current project, etc.

nyrulez 3 days ago 3 replies      
This article is going to make you feel bad about "feeling bad about feeling bad"...don't go there. You've been warned.
thedevil 3 days ago 1 reply      
I learned to accept that I feel bad sometimes and it made me happier.

But I went farther than that.

I also learned to accept that my ideas and behaviors are inconsistent and it helped me better understand the world and myself.

And finally, I learned to accept that I sometimes do bad things (and desire to do even more bad things) and it made me a better person.

(Disclaimer: my experiments have n=1, no control group and subjective measurements chosen in hindsight.)

madiathomas 2 days ago 0 replies      
This article sounds like a long version of Carl Jung's quote -> "what you resists, persists" to me. That's how I deal with pain. I don't try to resist it. I simply allow myself to go through the pain. Cry occasionally if I had to. Feeling bad about feeling bad doesn't make me feel better, it simply delays my healing.
mirimir 3 days ago 0 replies      
Been there, done that :( For me, it's been a negative spiral that ends with behavioral paralysis.

Over the years, I've managed to train myself to be amused by feeling bad. Because it's so pointless and silly. And so I smile, feel happy, and consider what needs done. Sometimes what needs done is sleeping for 15 hours. But that's very different from refusing to get out of bed.

thinkfurther 3 days ago 3 replies      
> We found that people who habitually accept their negative emotions experience fewer negative emotions


> those who generally allow such bleak feelings as sadness, disappointment and resentment to run their course reported fewer mood disorder symptoms than those who critique them or push them away, even after six months

Yet the comments so far are mostly about "controlling your thoughts", rather than accepting negative emotions (and maybe looking at what they're trying to tell you rather than killing the messengers).

averagewall 3 days ago 3 replies      
I wonder if causality is backwards. Perhaps if your negative emotions are really causing problems, you're more likely to actively to to stop them by telling yourself not to feel them.
atomical 3 days ago 2 replies      
I have learned some strategies for dealing with emotions from Feeling Good: The New Mood Therapy by David Burns. By controlling your thoughts you ultimately control how you feel.
joe_the_user 3 days ago 0 replies      
I don't know if this claim is true or false but I'm pretty sure that doing a study on this kind of thing is an extremely fraught enterprise. Edit: more so than even simpler psychology studies, many of which are coming back with problems.

How does one determine that someone is really "feeling bad about feeling bad" or whether they're satisfying some expectation of the experimenter or doing something else? And moreover, cause and effect can be slippery, maybe those with more extreme problems tend to be caused to do the thing the experimenter thinks is a mistake rather what they do having an effect.

lalos 3 days ago 1 reply      
Alan Watts said it better: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=emHAoQGoQic

worrying about worrying about worrying

theBobBob 2 days ago 0 replies      
Somewhat similar to some problems I used to have with sleeping. If I was particularly stressed and had trouble getting to sleep a couple of days in a row. Then I would be stressed, tired because of lack of sleep and now starting to stress about not being able to get to sleep leading me to find it even harder to sleep.
jnty 2 days ago 0 replies      
This effect is at the root of homesickness, I think. In my experience you're never really homesick when you're happy - homesickness only happens when you're sad for some reason and you can't separate it from the place/situation you're in. That reason is only sometimes a direct result of that situation, but your instinctive response is to think "this would be better if I were at home" regardless.

Getting over homesickness seems to be about being able to accept the bad thoughts as you would do at home and move on, rather than "feeling bad about feeling bad" in the form of wishing you could just go home.

I'm fortunate enough to have never experienced it, but I imagine serious grieving is like this too.

gaius 2 days ago 0 replies      
"Men are affected not by things but the view they take of them" -- Epictetus, Stoic philosopher
ThrustVectoring 3 days ago 1 reply      
It feels like a "duh" thing to me.

Emotions are adaptations. They trigger in particular circumstances and they cause particular behaviors. The entire point of having an emotion is to engage in emotionally appropriate behavior until the circumstance has passed. Positive emotions are attractors towards the triggering class of circumstances, while negative emotions are repellers.

"Feeling bad about feeling bad" pretty much works out to be something like "naive gradient descent on the function that maps attention onto emotional valence". This doesn't solve the underlying situations that cause you to feel bad - it's like not looking at pictures of your dead wife, rather than grieving, getting support from friends and family, and then moving on with your life.

pfista 3 days ago 0 replies      
This paradoxical idea of sitting with and being close to the very things that make you suffer is central to Alan Watts' teachings, who westernized Zen Buddhism in a secular way. Robert Wright also talked about this very topic in a recent episode of Fresh Air.
teekert 2 days ago 1 reply      
If this piece interests you, you should read the "subtle art of not giving a f*ck." Its a nice down to earth book about dealing with negative emotions and high expectations.


thinbeige 3 days ago 2 replies      
Maybe this sounds too simple and not academic:

The more I am busy (with meaningful work) the less time I have time to feel bad about feeling bad or just thinking about this.

This doesn't mean one should escape into random work but that there maight be a slight correlation.

danschumann 3 days ago 0 replies      
Therefore.. Feeling good about feeling good, can make you ecstatic. <punExplainer>When you keep feeling good about your previous good thought, the system is stable, hence, 'static'.</punExplainer>
megous 3 days ago 0 replies      
I think the same goes for worrying too much about and trying to assert too much control over one's impulsive behavior. Like trying to eliminate it completely. It may paradoxically bring more of it.
pvdebbe 2 days ago 0 replies      
Reminds me of Mr Prosser who felt bad about vacating Arthur, then felt good about feeling bad.
ahugebeach 3 days ago 1 reply      
Is this why some antidepressants work, they can break the cycle ?
gadders 2 days ago 0 replies      
Overthinking is a curse. JFDI.
peepopeep 3 days ago 0 replies      
By controlling your thoughts, you control the universe. Mind blown.
Apocryphon 3 days ago 0 replies      
It's bad feels all the way down.
rashthedude 2 days ago 0 replies      
No shit.
64-bit Firefox is the new default on 64-bit Windows blog.mozilla.org
252 points by cpeterso  3 days ago   93 comments top 13
trzeci 3 days ago 3 replies      
This is very good news for Emscripten / WebAssembly developers. One of the main limitation in ASM.js / WASM based applications is a size of emulated HEAP. It has to be a contiguous memory block, what is so unlikely to allocate by browser (from my tests it's ~10% of users cannot allocate 256MB for HEAP). It's that due a memory fragmentation.

Having 64 bit by default fixes such problem. That's a good move. Well done moz://a

sannee 3 days ago 7 replies      
I have not really written much of Windows code, so forgive my ignorance but: What is actually so hard about porting 32-bit -> 64-bit applications on Windows compared to Linux?
tbrock 2 days ago 5 replies      
Holy moly! Is anyone else wondering why this took so long? It's almost 2018 for god sakes. I don't think I've used a 32-bit program in over a decade.

Yeah flash is 32 bit but flash has been dead for the greater part of that decade. Not sure how it could possibly be the case that moz was still shipping 32-bit Firefox as default until yesterday.

kbsletten 3 days ago 4 replies      
What is the crash rate improvement all about? I get the address randomization, but what changes in 64 that fixed crashes?
bewresu 3 days ago 1 reply      
For a while there I thought Microsoft will ship Firefox as default and halt their browser efforts altogether.
__s 3 days ago 4 replies      
> If you prefer to stay with 32-bit Firefox after the 64-bit migration, you can simply download and re-run the Firefox 32-bit installer from the Firefox platforms and languages download page.

Any reason to do so? It'd have to be some fringe use case of '<4GB RAM system & user doesn't need fast codecs'. If it's a closed business environment I'd imagine they're on IE

baalimago 2 days ago 1 reply      
Now i respect Mozilla and all that they stand for, but that graph is about as useless as graphs come
theandrewbailey 2 days ago 0 replies      
Mozilla has come a long way. I remember them turning off the nightly 64-bit Windows Firefox build[0], then back on[1] after people complained.

[0] http://www.computerworld.com/article/2493395/internet/mozill...

[1] http://www.computerworld.com/article/2494189/internet/mozill...

gamedna 3 days ago 0 replies      
Love the unit-less graph around abstract concepts.


That said, kudos for making this the default.

agumonkey 2 days ago 0 replies      
Firefox 55 feels very near chrome slick on windows (it used to be randomly laggy). Kudos moz
Elmar69 2 days ago 1 reply      
Is this the last "modern browser" to use 64-bit as default?
maroonmoon 3 days ago 2 replies      
I am not convinced about the stability of 64 bit FF. Even with no add-ons, stability is poor. Hope it gets fixed as more users start using it and more crash data shows up.
Launch HN: Lambda School (YC S17) CS education that's free until you get a job
432 points by austenallred  3 days ago   264 comments top 63
artur_makly 3 days ago 4 replies      
Bravo! This is overdue.

Back in the early 80's my dad ( a chess teacher from Odessa ) immigrated to NYC ( with just $150 ). My mom worked 3 jobs to put him through Yeshiva Uni where he learned Cobol, JCL, and Fortran.

He ended up getting hired right away by Lehman Bros, and realized he was sitting on a gold-mine. Tons of well-educated immigrants were coming onto the golden-paved shores, with 0 knowledge of computer programming.

So we upgraded our family 1.5 bdrm apt in Jackson Heights, Queens, to a modest 3 bedroom tower apt in Forest Hills, where he proceeded to lecture evening and weekend classes by the droves.. (all on 1 white board!) * my job ( i was 13 at the time ) was to serve everyone instant coffee and bagels.

One day I was curious and asked him Dad, these folks can barely speak english.. how are they going to even pass their interviews? he looked up from his hand-drawn spreadsheet he kept a strict record of students..Oh that part is easy I already know all their future managers It was the perfect funnel.

best of luck fellas!

iomotoko 2 days ago 4 replies      
In the registration process:

Are you legally authorized to work in the United States?Just a note: We are currently unable to offer income-based repayment outside of the United States. You can still attend Lambda School, but you would have to pay at least $10,000 up-front

$10,000 - that's about as expensive as a high quality bachelor's degree (in Germany) at private university via distance learning, where someone can pay flexibly btw. Additionally: We are talking about 6 semesters worth of material and study, study time can be extended for free.

What you are offering is a 6-month crash course where someone will have _NO_ degree whatsoever afterwards. I also doubt how much computer science you can teach in that time. Normal CS curriculum spends about one module (one semester's worth) on just the introduction to programming, has probably 2 modules (that you would do in 2 semesters) of computer science basics like computer architecture et cetera... there are so many good resources already available, including lectures of incredibly professors from some of the greatest universities.

Also: You have to create the learning resources once and can take on as many students as you want w/out any additional cost, great for you, seems like selling snake oil to me. I am unsure besides the resources and apparently online group working ("group work happens live and interactive") what it is you provide for possibly 30k$ in cash? 1 success finances the cost you have w/ an incredible amount of failures, and it's not clear to me if that one guy finding a job will have done so bc of your awesome curriculum and support?

It seems to me like anyone who can possibly finance proper education some other way should (and I want to repeat: it's a 6-months crash course, not a degree)

keithnz 3 days ago 2 replies      
I feel it's misleading, it's naming feels like its coat tailing off implying something like a university comp sci degree ( with a practical bent), and this seems more of a React web/mobile app design course with a bit of C++ and some basic algorithms ( presumably so they can pass interviews that seem to be obsessed with such things )

$30k seems steep, and while 0 $ upfront is appealing, that kind of strategy can be exploitative( like 0% deposit financing ). It can be super appealing to someone who doesn't have much money, but they end up paying a lot more than they really should be.

Not saying this is bad (maybe it's good thing), but when look through it, I'm getting alarm bells.

nxc18 3 days ago 1 reply      
This is very interesting and I like the finance model a lot. I'd be curious to see more details on the syllabus, however.

I also have questions about the quality of instruction. There are some big name institutions listed, but that doesn't necessarily indicate quality instruction. The best researchers are often emphatically not the best instructors, and for this venture instructors are much more important.

I sincerely hope this is successful; perhaps this can prompt traditional institutions to be more innovative (in delivery, instruction, finance, all of it).

jbob2000 3 days ago 2 replies      
How do you know that your graduates are or aren't making more than 50k? How do you know that you're getting your 17%?

Aside from that, you're essentially giving your students a loan and then having them repay it once they start earning money. How is this any different than a regular student loan (but with way more risk on your end)?

beilabs 3 days ago 1 reply      
I'm going to play devils advocate here. I don't think I'd be in your target market primarily because I feel for 15k a year I can achieve a decent education just by online resources alone. It would be just as well recognized; I'd even think that a local community college could be cheaper. Granted, upfront cash is a luxury that few without the bank of mom and dad can access.

An Irish degree costs 3000 euros a year to enroll. Even for four years that would be cheaper than what's on offer here with a world wide recognized qualification.

On the whole, it seems like a very American solution to an American problem, education is just far too expensive in the states. * I'm a beneficiary of free state education from Ireland.

Best of luck in the effort, I do applaud you for it especially in the US where there are always tech shortages but...I really wish your country was in a place where your type of business didn't have to exist. A country where only those who can afford to be educated can receive education. I'm saying this as someone living in Nepal where those who can't pay can't learn either.

I really wish education was subsidized, worldwide! Alas, never going to happen.

pw 2 days ago 1 reply      
'austenallred is a cool individual, and this seems like it could be a particularly good take on the code school model, but I always wonder if programs like this help on the margin. That is, do they help people succeed (i.e. get a job in software) who otherwise wouldn't, or do they just accelerate the success of those who would, one way or another, eventually succeeded regardless of their participation in the program? I think the latter might be likely simply just because for good programs (like this one) demand far outstrips supply, so they can be extremely picky about who they accept and only accept individuals who are destined to succeed.

Not that accelerating the success of those destined to succeed is in any way a bad thing (it is, undoubtedly, a good thing, and can certainly make for a good business), but my interest is much more in helping those succeed who otherwise wouldn't. That seems like a much harder challenge and one that can have more interesting ramifications for things like social mobility and income inequality.

SimianLogic2 3 days ago 0 replies      
I've thought a bit about how you would structure something like this as a pro-bono service instead of a paid service. The thing I always struggle with is how to get people who currently lack the basic computer skills, math, and logic skills and get them to the point where they could benefit from a bootcamp. Most people I know who've made it through a bootcamp successfully already had some sort of exposure to coding before starting.

You'd almost need a skills camp before the bootcamp that would be less choosy and take the top 20-30% of those students into a further bootcamp... but at that point the economics start to break down (why it'd likely need to be pro-bono).

Anyway, that was a big tangent! I think what you're doing is interesting. Do you have a twitter account set up if we're interested in following along?

bipbip 3 days ago 2 replies      
Looks very similar to Holberton School - https://www.holbertonschool.com/ - launched 2 years ago, it's also 17% after students get a job. Their curriculum covers low-level programming, high-level programming and system engineering. They have a pretty good track record so far, students finding opportunities at NASA, LinkedIn, Apple, Dropbox, Docker.
dfabulich 3 days ago 2 replies      
IMO, the cost of living is the core problem with CS education programs like this. It's always been possible to teach yourself to code for free if you have a computer, Internet, and 40 hours a week to spend on practice. But who can afford to do that?

What these programs need most of all are cheap dormitories that offer room and board. (Close proximity to students can also help provide one another with a support network.)

wonderous 3 days ago 3 replies      
Have you run across any prior business that trade education for a percentage of future income?

Ask since I've looked at this model before and while I'm not able to find it, I recall court cases that ruled against this type of finical agreement.

minikomi 3 days ago 2 replies      
For those outside of the US take note:

 Just a note: We are currently unable to offer income-based repayment outside of the United States. You can still attend Lambda School, but you would have to pay at least $10,000 up-front

segmondy 2 days ago 0 replies      
How long does the student have to wait before getting a job to void the agreement? What if a student takes the class, can't get a job, then spends 6 months of their own time on MOOC and gets a job should they still pay 17%?
rajacombinator 2 days ago 1 reply      
Mixed feelings ... 50k/yr hardly sounds like a successful placement for a semi competent programmer, more like a pipeline to the gulag in a profession that's notoriously bad at obtaining fair wages. (I presume OP will be teaching the segment on living in your car in Palo Alto ... ;p ) However, I've always been curious about this business model for schools and hope it succeeds!
sureste 3 days ago 1 reply      
Anyone can help me with a question I have?

What if I want to take this program from outside of the USA and want to work remotely? Would this count as working in the USA? (Which is one of the questions on the form)

londons_explore 2 days ago 0 replies      
Wonder how legal taking a percentage of future earnings forever is?

For example, could I sell you a car and say "the price is 1% of all your future earnings"?

Legally I guess I'd have to say "The car is $30k, but I'm giving you a loan at 999% interest, with repayment demands capped at 1% of your salary (upon production of salary evidence), and the loan to be forgiven in full in the case of death".

sailfast 2 days ago 1 reply      
I like that this model has become available and wish you luck! Always good to have options for getting this education.

One pedantic but perhaps important nit to pick: I would not recommend the language "especially if you come from a lower-class background". Lower income, reduced opportunity, lower education, etc but lower class reads like you're coming from a position of privilege that looks down on potential students.

bambataa 3 days ago 1 reply      
I think this is an excellent idea. There definitely is a gap in the market for non-CS grads who want to get a more robust grounding than a ten-week bootcamp can offer.

I'm interested in how you select applicants but your website doesn't let me look at the application process. Your funding model means selecting the right students is crucial as you carry the risk. How do you select from the candidates? Are they meant to be already quite experienced? I looked through the curriculum and it seems very intense even for someone with a bit of coding experience. How do you make sure people keep up the pace?

omot 3 days ago 0 replies      
I'm kind of nervous that there's a lack of discrete math in the courses listed. I believe it's a fundamental requirement to gain understanding of the underlying intuition behind a lot of CS.
literallycancer 3 days ago 0 replies      
Here's an idea: go live in a cheaper country, pay couple grand for the whole degree. No one will have heard of the school, but that's the case anyway unless you go to the few top US schools.
sethbannon 3 days ago 1 reply      
How is this different than Make School's model (also a YC company)? I understand they've been doing this for some time, and even offer a stipend to people who are accepted in the program to help pay for housing and other costs.


bored 3 days ago 1 reply      
Do you offer opportunities for existing programmers who are looking to improve their skills with the goal of getting a higher programmer salary?
diegoperini 1 day ago 0 replies      
Computer Science and Computer Engineering are two different things and the proposed curriculum cover none of these completely. The term CS education therefor is misleading. I would suggest "Introduction to Computer Engineering".

> "At that point we take 17% of income for two years"

This is insane for too many reasons. What happens when the applicant change jobs, goes abroad, gets fired, quits, creates her own company?

webwanderings 3 days ago 2 replies      
I was curious about the type of students you'd want to recruit. The type you're featuring all seems to be out of college and have experience under their belt.

Your schedule is full day learning. So now I wonder: are you targeting people who are out of jobs? It seems a little confusing to understand your criteria of recruiting students (I have not paid too much attention yet).

uniclaude 3 days ago 1 reply      
Amazing! I'm pleased to see that there are startups out here trying to solve this type of problems. Taking the risk is ballsy and should be rewarded!


- Do you plan to extend the syllabus to something more fundamental? Asking because you have some C++ and already go further than bootcamps, so I'm wondering if you intend to pursue this direction and get closer to a formal CS education.

- Do you plan to work on giving some sort of degrees later? Some countries require degrees for immigration, which is a door that bootcamps do not open. By offering degrees, you open the global market to your students, and in an increasingly connected world, it can make a huge difference. I basically owe my quality of life to the mobility I got thanks to my degree, and this is something I wish to everyone.

Massive Kudos to you guys! I hope you will eventually offer the same service to students outside of the US. The market is large.

hysan 3 days ago 1 reply      
Out of curiosity, I signed up for the JavaScript Mini Code Bootcamp - Archive to evaluate the quality of the lectures. I've been watching/listening to the first 20+ min and so far, I'm quite skeptical of the quality of the instruction. Are the archives some sort of practice run or are they reminiscent of the actual lectures?
arikrak 3 days ago 1 reply      
Nice to offer a pay-it-later approach (like App Academy)but seems a bit expensive for an online course?
Seylerius 3 days ago 1 reply      
This is an awesome idea. What I'd really like to know, however, is if any of the existing loan options will accept this as schooling in order to loan a student money for living expenses. Some students already have a family, and thus they cannot crash at a flophouse.
txttran 2 days ago 1 reply      
Let's say I make $60k a year now in an unrelated field and I join your school, but after graduating, I was unable to find a job in software.

Would I still be on the hook to pay you 17% of my income despite not landing a programming job?

rovek 2 days ago 0 replies      
> We train people to become software engineers, and we charge nothing until a student gets a software job that pays more than $50k/yr. At that point we take 17% of income for two years (capped at a maximum of $30k total).

This is similar to how all university tuition fees in the UK work, with slightly different numbers. A very sensible solution to the astronomical cost of education, provided people want to get jobs.

In the current UK scheme you pay 9% of the amount you earn over 21,000, or nothing while you earn less than that. Debt written off after something like 25 years if unpaid.

richardgill88 2 days ago 0 replies      
This is great!

I've trained 3 people to code using a similar meta-course I built. It's more of an apprenticeship scheme (they work for me once they get good enough). https://github.com/z-dev/learn-programming

From that experience I think this idea could do well. I think no-win-no-fee education like this will be popular. I also think that a scheme like this could do a lot of social good and help people who might not want to go to University.

Good luck :)

adrianmui 3 days ago 0 replies      
Viking Code School grad here. Really happy more institutions are implementing this method. I didn't have to take loans to start my journey in Full Stack development. It's been the best decision of my life.
eps 2 days ago 0 replies      
Not getting a job is one risk. Loosing the interest in CS is another.

I know a fellow who was very much "into computers," decided to become a programmer, signed up for the (offline) classes and then had massive troubles trying to understand how a do-while construct works. He was in mid-20s back when it happened, spoke 3 languages and had a day job as a nurse. He did finish the course, got his grades, but ultimatley lost all the interest and never got into IT.

all_blue_chucks 3 days ago 1 reply      
Can you fail out of this program? If not, the degree is worthless. If so, the program wastes all the money it spent educating you.

The incentives at play here seem a bit out of whack...

veb 3 days ago 1 reply      
This is definitely one of the more interesting ideas/launches that I've seen on HN recently, congrats! I'll definitely be following you guys to see what you get up to.
patwalls 2 days ago 0 replies      
App Academy has the same business model in SF and NY. I went there along with thousands of others. Cool that this is online though.
dragonfax 3 days ago 1 reply      
This isn't new. And with schools like this, they say "good job" or tech job, but they mean "any job" (that pays over 50k). I've had friends screwed by this before.

If you can't get hired because you went to a "dev bootcamp" or just aren't good enough with code after spending all that time in school, they'll come after your for that car mechanic pay check.

drumttocs8 3 days ago 1 reply      
What if the student decides to use those skills to create their own startup, instead of getting a regular job? How would you get paid?
jeron 3 days ago 1 reply      
What are the differences between this and Make School?
r0brodz 3 days ago 1 reply      
Im 32 and have 4 kids. I would love to excel at this program and reach high coding experience. I really am struggling economicly.
jplank1983 3 days ago 0 replies      
What happens if I complete the curriculum and then decide to seek employment in a different field? Do I still pay?
jansho 3 days ago 1 reply      
What's the application criteria like? I notice that the current students listed in the website all have some sort of technical/reputable background (one even had an MS in Computer Science already!) Does this mean that the computer science course is not for complete beginners?

I also noticed a mini web dev bootcamp, when will this be launched?

Thanks :)

sergiotapia 3 days ago 1 reply      
Do you take older people >50 years old with zero programming experience? I want to forward this to someone.
smaps 3 days ago 1 reply      
Any potential for time changes in the future? I'm on EST and being in a class M-F 12p-9p is a bit harsh.
bearcobra 3 days ago 1 reply      
Do you plan on accepting students from outside the US, and if so how does that change your model?
mediocrejoker 3 days ago 0 replies      
It's too bad this is US only.
grondilu 2 days ago 1 reply      
So basically it's a student loan with a friendly debt collection policy?
corporateslave2 3 days ago 1 reply      
Services like this will flood the job market. I wish I could get out of engineering
leeronisrael 3 days ago 1 reply      
CC: TreehouseSeems equivalent to their "tech degree" which costs $199/mo
j_s 2 days ago 0 replies      
Austen, this is going a bit meta but why launch at ~4pm Eastern time instead of 8am? The post has done pretty well anyway - glad to see you hitting the big-time!
vimarshk 3 days ago 1 reply      
Great idea. Great business model. I think the issue will be for the engineers who graduate to get over the bias that software companies have today over hiring from a code bootcamp/code school.
b34r 2 days ago 0 replies      
I applaud that you arent charging a base tuition in addition to your income-based repayment. 30k for a useful education, job placement assistance, and community is worth it.
omalleyt 3 days ago 5 replies      
Brilliant, I've long thought that all universities should run under this model (although when applied to the humanities I can hear in my head the 3000 years of the land owning, non-laboring intelligentsia protesting about the noble virtues of an education uncorrupted by the banalities of productive yada yada...) But anyway back to CS.

1) Risk is pooled in the institution rather than distributed amongst the students, which is the textbook way to deal with uncorrelated risk.

2) The incentive of the university and the student are aligned as much as possible

3) By putting costs and benefits into a form with equal time horizons, disadvantaged students no longer need to rely on the generosity of governments or private lenders for upfront cash.

The only thing I'd always questioned was whether such a scheme as described above could pass legal muster, as it bears a resemblance to involuntary servitude, as well as requiring access to income statements. I've never heard of anyone but the govt placing liens on income. I'm hoping a workaround has been found, because from a strictly incentive based analogy, this model has the potential to do to modern education what patent law did to manufacturing

LaikaF 2 days ago 1 reply      
Well I applied. Hope I get in.

Any idea what the acceptance rate is like?

What sort of time frame will you hear back if you got accepted or not?

balls187 3 days ago 2 replies      
How will you prevent this from becoming predatory as pressure for improving the bottom line mounts?

It feels like a very fine line between altruism and taking advantage of ignorance.

jrs95 3 days ago 1 reply      
I really hope this model ends up growing beyond CS and into other fields as well. The traditional 4 year university model could definitely use the competition.
haskellandchill 3 days ago 1 reply      
Awesome, I'd love to be running something like this IRL with room and board like another commenter mentioned. Will settle for being a hiring partner :)
francogt 3 days ago 1 reply      
I remember the Functional Programming course you guys taught. Any chance of putting that course in the "Free Course Archives" :)
dlet 3 days ago 1 reply      
Love the concept! What about the people who want to freelance after the program? What will be the fees for them?
RUG3Y 3 days ago 0 replies      
I need the education but I already have a job. Two years ago, I would have jumped into this feet first.
icpmacdo 3 days ago 1 reply      
Is the content your teaching currently openly available or are there plans to make it available in the future?
austinlyons 3 days ago 0 replies      
Who are the founders?
francogt 3 days ago 1 reply      
Do you accept or plan on accepting international students?
Ask HN: What mistakes in your experience does management keep making?
400 points by oggyfredcake  1 day ago   356 comments top 20
Boothroid 19 hours ago 8 replies      
* Zero career direction and zero technical speciality for devs

* Underestimation of difficulty whether through cynicism (burn the devs) or cluelessness

* Inadequate training and expectation devs can just piggy back learning technology x from scratch whilst writing production software using it

* Trying to use one off contracts as a way of building resellable products

* Insistence that all devs time must be billable and trying to defy gravity in ignoring skills rot etc. through lack of investment in training

* Expectation that devs can be swapped between technologies without problems

* Swapping people in and out of projects as if this will not affect progress

* Deliberate hoarding of information as a means of disempowering devs

All of this inevitably leads to a bunch of pissed off devs. The ones that are happy to eat it become the golden boys and get promotions. Those that point out the bullshit leave once they can and are replaced with the desperate at the bottom who sooner or later arrive at the same position of wanting to leave once they realise what's going on. I think tech can be pretty miserable if you are not in the upper echelon of lucky types that can score a position at a Google, Facebook etc.

Oh and a couple more:

* Give no feedback unless things go wrong

* Treat your highly educated, intelligent and motivated devs like children by misusing agile in order to micromanage them

jerf 15 hours ago 6 replies      
I'll add one that even after 200 comments I don't see: Failure to explain the reason why. Coming down to their developer with a list of tasks without explaining why those tasks are the most important and will lead to company success.

You might think startups are small enough that this couldn't happen but that was actually where my worst experience was. The founders are visibly in a meeting with a couple people, maybe "suits", maybe not. They come out of the meeting and the next day your priorities are rewritten. Cool beans, that's a thing that can happen and that's not my issue. My issue is, why? What are the goals we are trying to hit now? What's the plan? Why is that better than the old plan?

This is especially important IMHO for more senior engineers responsible for architecture and stuff, because those matters can greatly affect the architecture. Telling me why lets me start getting a grasp on what parts of the code are long term and what can be considered a short term hack, what the scaling levels I need to shoot for, and all sorts of other things that are very hard to determine if you just come to me with "And actually, our customers need a new widget to frozzle the frobazz now more than they need to dopple the dipple now."

Not necessarily the biggest issue, there's a lot of other suggestions here that are probably bigger in most places, but this is one that has frustrated me.

(I'll also say this is one you may be able to help fix yourself, simply by asking. If you are in that senior role I think you pretty much have a professional obligation to ask, and I would not be shy about working that into the conversation one way or another.)

muzani 22 hours ago 4 replies      
* Killing things that are low profit margins, under some misguided Pareto Principle approach. Sometimes these things are loss leaders designed to pull customers for other products.

* Spending too much on marketing/sales before people want the product. They usually just end up burning their brand if the product is too low quality.

* Too much focus on building multiple small features rather than focusing on the value proposition.

* Trying to negotiate deadlines for product development. "We don't have two months to finish this. Let's do this in one." In software estimation, there's the estimate, the target, and the commitment. If the commitment and estimate are far off, it should be questioned why, not negotiated.

* Hiring two mediocre developers at half the salary of one good developer. They usually can't solve problems past a certain treshhold.

* Importing tech talent, rather than promoting. Usually the people who have built the product have a better understanding of the tech stack than someone else they import.

* Startups that rely on low quality people to skimp on the budget. These people later form the DNA of the company and make it difficult to improve, if they're not the type who improve themselves.

stickfigure 1 day ago 25 replies      
I've never met a manager that wouldn't rather pay four average people $100/hr to solve a problem that one smart person could solve in half the time for $400/hr.

There seems to be some sort of quasi-religious belief in the fundamental averageness of humans; consequently the difference between developer salaries at any company varies by maybe 50%, whereas the productivity varies by at least a full order of magnitude.

Until "management" realizes this, the only way that a developer on the upper end of the productivity scale can capture their value is to found their own company. I sometimes wonder what would happen if some company simply offered to pay 3X the market rate and mercilessly filter the results.

lb1lf 20 hours ago 6 replies      
Working for a company building heavy hardware, I see the following happen time and time again:

* Reorganizing seemingly for the sake of reorganizing. Result: Every time the new organization has settled somewhat and people know who to interact with to make things flow smoothly, everything is upended and back to square one.

* Trying to make our products buzzword compliant without understanding the consequences - we've on occasion been instructed to incorporate technologies which are hardly fit for purpose simply because 'everyone else is doing it' (Where 'everyone' is the companies featured in whatever magazine the CEO leafed through on his latest flight. Yes, I exaggerate a bit for effect.)

* Misguided cost savings; most of what hardware we use, we buy in small quantities - say, a few hundred items a year, maximum. Yet purchasing are constantly measured on whether they are able to source an 'equivalent' product at a lower price. Hence, we may find ourselves with a $20,000 unit being replaced by a $19,995 one - order quantity, 5/year - and spend $10,000 on engineering hours to update templates, redo interfaces &c.

* Assuming a man is a man is a man and that anyone is easily and quickly replaceable (except management, of course) - and not taking the time and productivity loss associated with training new colleagues into account.

Edit: An E-mail just landed in my inbox reminding me of another:

* Trying to quantify anything and everything, one focuses on the metrics which are easy to measure, rather than the ones which matter. As a result, the organization adapts and focuses on the metrics being measured, not the ones which matter - with foreseeable consequences for productivity.

tboyd47 14 hours ago 4 replies      
Trying to write code alongside their devs.

Here's what happens when a manager tries to fill tickets himself: his sense of control of the project is derived not from relationships of trust and cooperation with his reports, but from direct involvement in the code. So naturally, any challenging or critical piece of code ends up getting written by him (because otherwise, how could he be confident about it?)

The manager is essentially holding two jobs at once so they end up working late or being overly stressed at work.

The devs will feel intimidated to make architecture decisions, because they know if they do something their manager doesn't like, it will get refactored.

They will also feel as if they are only given the "grunt work" as all the challenging work is taken on by their manager.

The code itself is in a constant state of instability because there is a tension between the manager needing the other employees' help to get the code written on time, while also needing to have that complete control and mastery over the code that can only come from writing it yourself. So people's work gets overwritten continually.

This is very bad and it's very common - managers should learn to delegate as that is an essential part of their job. If they can't delegate they should remain as an individual contributor and not move into management.

JamesLeonis 1 day ago 3 replies      
Want to jump ahead a few years from Mythical Man-Month? Let me recommend Peopleware by Tom DeMarco and Tim Lister.[2] It's painful that we haven't crawled far out of the 80s practices.

The first chapter says: "The major problems of our work are not so much technological as sociological in nature." Sorry Google Memo Dude. DeMarco and Lister called it in the 80s.

Speaking of DeMarco, he also wrote a book about controlling software projects before Peopleware. Then in 2009 he denounced it. [1]

 To understand controls real role, you need to distinguish between two drastically different kinds of projects: * Project A will eventually cost about a million dollars and produce value of around $1.1 million. * Project B will eventually cost about a million dollars and produce value of more than $50 million. Whats immediately apparent is that control is really important for Project A but almost not at all important for Project B. This leads us to the odd conclusion that strict control is something that matters a lot on relatively useless projects and much less on useful projects. It suggests that the more you focus on control, the more likely youre working on a project thats striving to deliver something of relatively minor value.
I always think about that when I'm doing a Sprint Review.

[1]: https://www.computer.org/cms/Computer.org/ComputingNow/homep...[2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peopleware:_Productive_Project...

ChuckMcM 1 day ago 4 replies      
There are some very common ones;

* Building a one more generation of product than the market supports (so you build a new version when the market has moved on to something new).

* Rewarding productivity over quality.

* Managing to a second order effect. For example when Nestle' bought Dryers they managed to 'most profit per gallon' which rewarded people who substituted inferior (and cheaper) components, that lead to lower overall sales and that leads to lower overall revenue. Had they managed to overall revenue they might have caught the decline sooner.

* Creating environments where nobody trusts anyone else and so no one is honest. Leads to people not understanding the reality of a situation until the situation forces the disconnect into the mainstream.

* Rewarding popular popular employees differently than rank and file. Or generally unevenly enforcing or applying standards.

* Tolerating misbehavior out of fear of losing an employee. If I could fire anyone in management who said, "Yeah but if we call them on it they will quit! See what a bind that puts us in?" I believe the world would be a better place.

There are lots of things, that is why there are so many management books :-)

ideonexus 15 hours ago 3 replies      
The biggest recurring issue I have with my managers over the last twenty years is their need to add unnecessary complexity to projects. I think a good manager stays out of the way and just monitors employees for any obstructions that are preventing them from meeting their goals. Yet, my experience is that when a manager sits in on a project meeting, they can't help but start giving input on the project itself, adding complexity to defined business rules or adding obscure use cases to the system. Too many managers can't help but dominate meetings because their dominant personalities is how they became managers in the first place.

The worst is when you get two or more managers attending the same meeting. Then nothing will get done as they eat up all of the meeting time arguing about business rules, magnifying the complexity of the system until you end up with some Rube Goldberg chain of logic that they will completely forget minutes after they've left the meeting. A good manager knows to trust their employees and only intervenes to make sure those employees have the resources they need to do their jobs. The most effective managers are humble and respect the expertise of the experts they hire.

sulam 1 day ago 3 replies      
I have held management and non-management careers in roughly equal proportion over my career. My list would look like this:

1) believing you can dramatically change the performance of an employee -- it's very rare to save someone and less experienced managers always believe they can.

1.5) corollary to the above: not realizing the team is aware and waiting for you to fix the problem and won't thank you for taking longer to do what's necessary.

2) believing that people don't know what you're thinking -- people see you coming a mile off.

3) thinking you can wait to fix a compensation problem until the next comp review -- everyone waits too long on these.

4) believing HR when they tell you that you can't do something that's right for your team -- what they're really saying is that you have to go up the ladder until you find someone who can force them to make an exception.

5) not properly prioritizing the personal/social stuff -- at least this is my personal failing, and why ultimately management has not stuck for me.

6) believing your technical opinion matters -- I've seen way too many VP's making technical decisions that they are too far from the work to make, trust your team!

It'd be fun to see a list of these from the non-management point of view. I'd start off with the inverse of #6 above:

1) believing your technical opinion matters -- the business is what ultimately matters.

alexandercrohde 1 day ago 2 replies      
- Trying to "create a buzz" around the office, asking for a "sense of urgency," and other things that result in an illusion of productivity.

- Focusing on fixing problems, rather than preventing problems

- Acting as yes-men to bad upper-management strategy, thereby creating a layer of indirection between the people who think it's a good plan vs the engineers who can explain why it's not quite that easy

- Trying to use software tools (e.g. Jira's burndown charts) to quantitatively/"objectively" measure engineers

mychael 21 hours ago 0 replies      
A few patterns I've seen:

* Preaching about the virtues of a flat organizational structure, but making unilateral decisions.

* Hiring people for a particular challenging job, but have them work on menial unchallenging tasks.

* Creating multiple layers of management for a tiny team.

* Facilitating post mortems that would be better facilitated by a neutral third party.

* Using vague management speak as a deliberate strategy to never be held responsible for anything.

* Rewarding politics with promotions.

* Marginalizing experienced employees.

* Talking too much about culture.

* Trying to be the company thought leader instead of helping people do their best work.

* Assuming that everyone underneath you views you as a career mentor.

* Negging employees.

* New hire managers: Firing incumbent employees after youve only been on the job for a few weeks.

* New hire managers: Not doing 1:1s with everyone who reports to you.

* New hire managers: Create sweeping changes like re-orgs after a few weeks on the job.

* New hire managers: Doing things a certain way because it worked well at a previous company.

* New hire managers: Changing office work hours to suit your personal life.

greenyoda 1 day ago 2 replies      
Promoting technical people with no management experience into management jobs, without providing them with any training or guidance. (Happened to me.) Writing code and managing people require very different sets of skills, and just because you're good at the former doesn't necessarily mean you'll be any good at the latter (or that you'll enjoy doing it).

(Similar problems can happen when a bunch of people with no management skills decide to found a company and start hiring people.)

redleggedfrog 1 day ago 1 reply      
The worst mistake I've seen management make over 20 years of software development is not listening to the technical people.

Estimates get shortened. Technical decisions are overruled for business or political reason. Warnings about undesirable outcomes are ignored. Sheer impossibility deemed surmountable.

I feel this is the worst mistake by management because the technical people are the ones who suffer for it. Overtime, inferior software, frustration, technical debt, lack of quality, are all things management doesn't really care about because they can always just push people harder to get what they want.

cbanek 1 day ago 2 replies      
Overly optimistic schedules. Even with a known gelled team, being constantly overscheduled is a nightmare. You cut corners, and are always stressed and tired. Other teams that believe the optimistic schedules may become angry or blocked on you. Over time this just leads to burnout, but since nobody seems to stay anywhere for very long, nobody seems to care.
Mz 1 day ago 0 replies      
When I had a corporate job, they were overly controlling about schedules and how much you could earn in a way that was completely unnecessary and that I felt came back to bite them. People who wanted more money would take on part time jobs for evenings and weekends. Then, when management tried to put a gun to our head and insist we work overtime, these people had prior commitments and couldn't be there. Bonus points for the whole atmosphere of fear with the entire approach of trying to pressure people to work overtime on demand, at the convenience of the company.

None of this was really necessary. Every single year, they watched the backlog of work gradually climb over the course of the summer. Then, around September, they began insisting on overtime at psychological gun point to try to clear the backlog. It would have been entirely possible to allow people who met certain quality standards to work some overtime during the summer and cap how much could be worked. People could have competed for overtime slots instead of feeling forced into it. It would have worked vastly better for everyone.

Of course, an elegant solution like that takes a bit more planning on the end of management. Simply demanding extra hours at a certain point is a simpler, brute force method. But, I felt it had a lot of downside to it and was mostly avoidable for the company in question.

It makes me wonder how many companies basically create drama of this sort. Because this crisis was entirely created by management, IMO. There was zero reason they had to wait until it hit a certain volume and then force overtime on us.

icco 42 minutes ago 0 replies      
- Acting like 1:1s and performance reviews aren't the most important aspect of your job by putting them off, ignoring them or saying you dislike them to your reports

- I'll repeat: "misusing agile in order to micromanage"

- Requiring all decisions to be signed off on

Deestan 15 hours ago 0 replies      
1) Trying to solve lack of skill with More Rules For Everyone.

One of your teams write messy code? Don't try to educate them. Instead enforce strict coding standards that forbid all but the most basic complexity. Everyone else now have to make their code more verbose and objectively worse, while the problem team still writes bad code but now they make even more of it in a neater formatting.

2) Raise wages only for people who threaten to leave.

3) Run a high tech software development shop but have an IT department that assumes everyone only ever need Excel and Outlook.

Ports are blocked. Local computer admin is locked. Updates are forced, delayed and centralized. Hardware is underpowered. Network blocks ping.

4) Demand to be in full control.

Make sure nobody does anything you don't understand. Shoot down experiments you can't see the point of, even if they're small. Hire skilled and experienced people, but demand that you can understand everything they do.

5) Let random people deal with hiring and interviews.

Hiring is both a hard and sensitive process. On one hand you are giving people an impression of your workplace, and on the other hand you are trying to evaluate the skill of someone who has a different skill set than yourself.

Giving this job to some burnt out elitist asshole who throws resumes in the garbage because they did or didn't include a cover letter, or a wannabe drill sergeant who tries to be "tough" and "test them under pressure" during interviews, gives you a bad rep in tech circles and doesn't help you hire skilled people. Giving it to someone who can't be bothered to reply to applicants or update them on rejections is also shitty.

6) Open fucking landscape workplaces.


Spooky23 1 day ago 2 replies      
#1 in my book is sunk cost fallacy.

Everywhere I've worked, the folks running the show have too much ego and political capital invested in products or projects that are turds. The result is massive financial losses for the business.

quadcore 18 hours ago 3 replies      
I think management fails when they don't understand that the nerds hired them and not the opposite. We are the technology, we did it in the first place. We hired managers to help us. By default, we know better than them (because we are the one who do the tech), they should listen to us and not the opposite. Now, when everybody knows his place, we can collaborate and do great work.

I got the luck to work with great managers at amazon. From what I've seen, programmers are driving the company there - or at least, they have their word to say, often, and power that comes with it. On my team, decisions relative to product development were clearly strongly driven by us. Seems to work pretty well for amazon.

Bezos should put his billions in public libraries wired.com
245 points by steven  2 days ago   234 comments top 50
graphitezepp 2 days ago 14 replies      
I would much rather billionaire types take on large issues that governments don't want to touch, like space flight or specific diseases in foreign countries, than something already in service like libraries. Maybe I just have a bias due to having a library just up the street from where I live currently, but I have never not had access to an adequate library in my life time, and only see room for marginal diminishing returns in improving them.
Overtonwindow 2 days ago 1 reply      
Libraries are an excellent place to put some money. They provide learning opportunities, but many also provide resume and job search training, community meeting places, free internet access, and I think is one of the few "neutral" places in American society. Neutral in that there are few, if any politics involved, and it's an equal opportunity benefit to a community that most people can get behind. Even if they don't use the library, few I think would speak against.
_jal 2 days ago 1 reply      
This is poorly thought out and edited, because I have to run, but I thought it worth posting. I've been thinking more about libraries lately. I really think it is time to reinvigorate and expand them. Pretty sure I'm preaching to the converted here about the power of information; I think what some folks miss is just how incredibly valuable libraries are. No, they aren't a panacea, but they are a cheap source of immense social good.

A lot of people see a building full of books and wonder why it can't be replaced by a bank of terminals and Google. I won't get in to the relative merits of dead trees vs. electrons, and largely don't care about it. What that line of thought misses is two-fold: the librarians and the community space.

Decent librarians are hugely underrated resources. Great ones can be incredible. Maybe natural language systems will become good enough in my lifetime to handle some of the vague requests librarians routinely manage to match to the right book, but the leaps of association to related topics, the knowledge of the edge cases of information classification to navigate them well, and the general mass of knowledge they accumulate is massively useful to have on hand. And so few people take advantage of it.

Meeting spaces in this context (both formal, sign-up-for-your-group and informal) serve an important role as well. It seems[1] like they're becoming rarer as government buildings use security as an excuse to close to the public, and in calling around to private groups with spaces that previously did that sort of thing have been much more reluctant to do so when I've tried to organize things over the last several years.

To personalize this a bit, I grew up in a poor family. One thing that was heavily emphasized to me was the value of learning - I think it was reaction to missed opportunities. Who knows what would have happened, but I do know that my college essays (written referencing library books, building on interests fostered in the math and the American Lit sections) would have been very different without them, and I kinda doubt I would have gotten a free ride to a top-10 school if I had been only drawing on what public school offered.

I'd love to see more experiments with libraries. I know some are playing with becoming more "maker-space"-ey, which is a decent thing to explore. I think finding a way to offer peer-classes in whatever - learn Javascript, fancy knitting techniques - would be an interesting thing to try as well. But I'm bad at seeing opportunities like this. I wonder what people with that super power could come up with.

[1] Anecdata alert!

randyrand 2 days ago 1 reply      
The modern day equivalent of a public library (storing information history) is the internet archive.

I think donating to the internet archive would be a better donation which a lot more benefit to society than funding physical libraries.

Libraries solve one of the worlds most important problem - keeping societies important information history safe. Websites are not immune to this problem. They require maintenance. When a webpage goes down its gone forever. Without something like the internet archive, we would not have a modern day library equivalent for the web. We are losing a lot of important information. Physical libraries today are in comparison much less important than digital ones.

jamesred 2 days ago 3 replies      
The problem libraries solved, mostly access to information, has largely been monopolize by the internet. Most, including the third world impoverished, have access to the internet. Therefore the necessity of a library has been largely diminished and inevitably libraries will disappear. Complaining about libraries when people have no sanitation and access to clean tap water sounds largely like a first world problem, as much as I dislike the term.

Libraries should evolve with the change of technology and move their function from curation and access to information to something that is able to benefit more people. Books occupy volume and removing them would make more room for desks and rooms where people with no access to quiet areas could use to be more productive.

karl11 2 days ago 1 reply      
I think this is a good idea. I would add YMCAs and similar places.

I think one of the best places for a mega-philanthropist to invest would be in the time and places that kids spend outside of public schools. Many of the biggest disadvantages in opportunities for kids are created when they fall behind before and after school and during summers, relative to kids who are better off socioeconomically. These disadvantages compound and are lasting. Safe places to engage in healthy recreation, productive endeavors, and getting something nutritious to eat that they wouldn't otherwise have access to would go a long way for underprivileged youth and have an impact for the rest of their lives.

speedboat 2 days ago 1 reply      
Libraries are great. They should be funded with taxes by society, not the whims of charity.

Raise taxes and on people like Bezos and Gates for the needs of society.

songzme 2 days ago 1 reply      
As much as I hate books, I love public libraries. Our local library (Northside branch santa clara) gives a big conference room every saturday to a team of passionate locals trying to teach themselves programming. My friends and I go there every Saturday to help people who are stuck and give them guidance (what to learn next, how to prepare for interviews, what language is best suitable for what they are trying to do, etc).

Talk about diversity, the library is a place where you get to see people from all walks of life outside the silicon valley bubble (different race, age, handicap). It builds a learning community where people have the opportunity to help each other at a more human level.

saosebastiao 2 days ago 2 replies      
Here's a better idea...and one that will ultimately benefit libraries as well: start buying out all the evil academic publishers, overhaul their technology, get rid of copyright assignment, and offer free access to anyone.

Then do the same with legal records, although that is more of a legal problem than a money problem.

diffeomorphism 2 days ago 1 reply      
The article does not mention ebooks, which is a surprising omission considering it involves Amazon.

I don't know how it is in the US, but for instance German libraries offer to loan ebooks: http://www.onleihe.net/

Donating ereaders and rights to ebooks to libraries seems more effective than printed books.

Big caveats here are Amazon's monopoly position, DRM and copyright and loans for ebooks vs. physical books.

bitL 2 days ago 3 replies      
What's the point of libraries these days? We literally have the possibility for everyone to have a "Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy" in their pocket with all books that were ever written.
philipps 2 days ago 0 replies      
Strengthening public libraries is an excellent idea, with lots of public benefits. Libraries are one of the most trusted public institutions in the US and provide a range of key social services including access to education, internet, health information. They also reach and support a demographic that is currently not well served through online-only programs.

I co-founded Peer 2 Peer University [1] a non profit that brings people together in learning circles to take online courses. When we switched from online-only to face to face meetings in public libraries we started teaching adults who had fallen out of the education system and who were not benefiting from online courses. And I can't say enough positive things about the librarians who we work with.

[1] https://p2pu.org

orik 2 days ago 2 replies      
Im sure thousands of people have ideas of how Bezos should spend his.

Bezos should spend (or not spend) in ways and things he values, to maximize what he gets out of what hes earned.

(P.S. libraries compete with his book selling business! Why wouldnt he rather sell a library pass on a kindle for a monthly subscription?)

tanilama 2 days ago 3 replies      
His company hosts a large part of the biggest library ever existed: Internet.
SJWDisagree111 2 days ago 2 replies      
I'm guessing most of the people here have not been to a local public library in a long time. They have basically become daytime homeless shelters. That is the reason they are no longer attractive for philanthropists.
tostitos1979 2 days ago 1 reply      
I want to give a shout out to a charity called "Room to read". There is a book about the founder's story .. he was one of us (a tech leader at Microsoft). His book and story touched me deeply.
kolbe 2 days ago 3 replies      
Bezos still needs to focus on actually delivering the value that the world has priced into the expectations of his company. He can't just retire and collect income off of an existing machine like Gates.
sjg007 2 days ago 0 replies      
Or in school lunches. How about nice healthy food? Lunch should be a class where you learn how to eat.
melling 2 days ago 2 replies      
So far, youve concentrated on things that might benefit our distant successors ... space trave, cancer treatments, AI

I would hope were going to make large strides in these in his lifetime. If we could effectively funnel more into R&D sooner, wed all see the benefits sooner. Cancer(s), for example, might be cured in say 2060 with our current effort, but if we solved the problem by 2030, hundreds of millions would benefit.

alt_f4 1 day ago 0 replies      
No offense to the author, but what a tremendously stupid idea.

With technology becoming cheaper and cheaper, right now, you can get a good enough computer to access all the world's information (the Internet) for $25. I can imagine that price being more like $5 in the next 10 years.

Since the goal of investing is planning for the future, it'd be an enormous waste to spend all of that money on the antiquated concept of a library. It will be about as useful as investing the money in VHS tapes.

Better education-related goals for billionaires: make more of the copyrighted information available for free public use. Help increase access to good quality internet and computers in poor communities.

MrZongle2 2 days ago 0 replies      
I think public libraries would be a wonderful beneficiary of Jeff Bezos' fortune, but I would hope that in the (admittedly unlikely) event that it happens, the bulk of the donated funds are not thrown at shiny "library of the future" initiatives. Not after-school STEM programs, not summer Minecraft redstone programming camps, not 3D printer labs.

Just books, staff and facilities: the three things that libraries always need, won't become obsolete in a few years, and are equally available to all patrons in an area.

Yes, public libraries need to evolve to meet their community's needs as they change. But just as a new coat of paint or solar-powered lighting doesn't strengthen an aging bridge, focusing on the flair rather than the core of what makes a library a library would be foolhardy.

hilyen 2 days ago 0 replies      
Wait, didn't he already replace the need for libraries with kindle and kindle unlimited monthly service? Heh.
oconnor663 2 days ago 1 reply      
> they're the only noncommercial places other than city squares where people meet across genders and ages


WalterBright 2 days ago 0 replies      
By far the biggest barrier to books being available is perpetual copyright.
payne92 2 days ago 1 reply      
Libraries are struggling with an identity crisis as printed books become less relevant. It's an issue not solved by the injection of billions.

Carnegie's legacy, the example used in the article, doesn't translate to the present.

If Bezos wanted to democratize information in a comparable way, perhaps he could underwrite universal access to high-speed Internet. Many many parts of the country still do not have reliable, high-speed, low latency Internet connections.

em3rgent0rdr 2 days ago 1 reply      
As commenters have noted, libraries conflict with Amazon's business. How about instead mass produce cheap (low-profit or at-cost) kindles pre-loaded with a large amount of public domain and other free material (including wikipedia offline compressed database). And then bezos will still make money from some of them buying paid kindle books.
dnprock 2 days ago 0 replies      
My libraries cost $180/year through property tax. Most of the books I want to read are checked out. Most of the movies I want to watch are checked out. It takes a lot of time just to find something. I come to library to hang out. We then pick up something to read/watch randomly. The system is not very efficient.
crb002 1 day ago 0 replies      
Bezos is putting his billions right where they are best. Re-inventing the supply chain for everything from retail goods to commodity compute.
stcredzero 2 days ago 0 replies      
If I were Bezos, I would start a vlogging platform and a competitor to Twitter -- one free of concerns of covert partisan censorship. There would be serious synergies for amazon.com and other Amazon products.
MentallyRetired 2 days ago 0 replies      
Or, you go earn billions, and then you can decide what to do with them.
jpao79 2 days ago 0 replies      
Or maybe arm US public libraries with free to checkout Kindles that have no hardware for WiFi or LTE support and simply are cached with the latest videos from Khan Academy and a significant portion of the most read portions of Wikipedia. The cache would be updated over the air weekly at the library.

If the Kindle ever was jailbroken, well then the kid or whoever just learned about jailbreaking/hacking. Without Wifi or LTE support, likely no one would really bother.

I find this one inspiring:https://www.ted.com/talks/curtis_wall_street_carroll_how_i_l...

caisman 1 day ago 0 replies      
I agree that billionaries could help society development, but Bezos would not have billions if he invests in public libraries. Nice try.
gondo 2 days ago 0 replies      
everyone knows what to do with other people's money
pravinva 2 days ago 1 reply      
Is non fossil fuel energy research too hard to be funded? Gates and Bezos etc have funded just about a billion. Why not 20 billion
yohann305 2 days ago 0 replies      
i love libraries but i never go cause i'm not allowed to sip a coffee. i mean come on, where's the fun factor! Wouldn't you take the risk of spilling drinks on books rather than preventing people from coming?
denisehilton 2 days ago 0 replies      
Or maybe donate some of it to the poor? Like Bill Gates?
tambourine_man 2 days ago 1 reply      
I find this titles very off putting.

It seems to imply that someone, who wasn't competent enough to make billions of their own, is somehow more apt to know how to better spend them than the one that actually did.

Clubber 2 days ago 0 replies      
We already have libraries, if you are going to presume to tell someone how to spend their money, at least pitch something we don't already have.
balls187 2 days ago 1 reply      
Fix traffic and housing in Seattle.
addedlovely 2 days ago 0 replies      
How about pay some taxes.
HillaryBriss 2 days ago 0 replies      
what a ludicrous idea. libraries lose thousands of books each year to theft and vandalism. what would happen to all those bundles of cash?

just keep the money in banks. that's what they do.

kazishariar 2 days ago 0 replies      
Now, that would solve that problem now wouldn't it.
cko 2 days ago 3 replies      
Whenever a topic like this gets posted, it feels like the majority of commenters feel 'entitled' to other people's money and think they know best how to spend it. Or the notion they have to 'give back.'

I'm not rich in the popular sense of the word (besides having the fortune of being American middle class), but I do have investments by virtue of almost never spending on consumer goods. And having no wife or kids. My coworkers realize after years of seeing me drive the same beater correctly assume I'm in better shape financially, and some have the audacity to jokingly ask me to put them in my will.

Now, I will not deny that I am an extremely fortunate person who is cognitively able, like Bezos or anyone well-connected with material wealth, but what's with the 'he should donate to this cause instead'?

It's his money. He could buy a fleet of yachts, set them on fire, and upload the video footage - why shouldn't he be allowed to do that? At what arbitrary level of wealth does 'his' money become everyone else's money?

the-dude 2 days ago 1 reply      
jjtheblunt 2 days ago 2 replies      
Should is a pretty insulting verb: who is to presume the wisdom to tell another what to do?
miguelrochefort 2 days ago 0 replies      
Although I don't like the government taking my money to subsidize stuff, I'd rather see them make basic Internet "free" than build and maintain libraries.
simonebrunozzi 1 day ago 1 reply      
If I were a Billionaire like Bezos, and read this article, I would think: "it's my money. You can be as sure as hell that the last thing I will do is to put it in public libraries".

Seriously. Since when we pick someone else's pocket and decide what to do with his money?

sddfd 2 days ago 4 replies      
Why would anyone think libraries are important in 2017?

If things keep getting digitalized at the current speed, all knowledge of the world will be accessible online in our lifetime.

Unless you believe that a large percentage of citizens will not be able to afford a device for accessing the internet, libraries are a waste of money.

Oh and since librarians were mentioned, if AI keeps advancing, we will be able to have a conversation with a search engine within 30 years. So who needs a librarian?

tzs 2 days ago 1 reply      
I'd like to see some billionaire put a lot of money into abortions. The political fight over abortion keeps messing up other things, and a billionaire could fix that.

For example, I don't think many on the right disagree that funding prenatal care is a good thing--but some major prenatal care providers, such as Planned Parenthood, also provide abortion services and so some politicians want to cut all their funding to make sure none of the Federal money goes to abortions. A whole bunch of women's health services get cut in order to make sure there is no chance the money ends up helping abortions.

So I'd like to see some billionaire, or some well-funded charity like the Gates Foundation, build several clinics that provide free abortions around the country in the states with the least restrictions on abortions, and fund a program that provides free travel to and from those clinics for women in the states with restrictive laws that have forced most such clinics to close.

Then organizations like Planned Parenthood can get completely out of the abortion business, taking away the major excuse that is used to cut their funding.

State legislators can stop spending a lot of time coming up with new ways to try to shut down abortion clinics in their states (because shutting down such clinics will no longer stop the abortions), and state attorney generals can stop wasting time defending those attempts in court, and maybe they will finally realize that the best way to reduce abortions is to make it so people don't need them in the first place. Maybe then states like Texas can drop their idiotic "abstinence only" approach to sex eduction (which has resulted in soaring teen pregnancy rates...) and switch to something actually effective.

Edit: any down voters care to name specific objections? That Planned Parenthood provides a lot of useful women's health services that are not related to abortion should not be controversial. That abortion is the main reason Congress wants to completely defund PP should also not be controversial. That "abstinence only" programs are a massive failure is pretty well documented. That many states keep passing abortion restrictions which then get challenged and often struck down as unconstitutional is not controversial.

Rustgo: Calling Rust from Go with near-zero overhead filippo.io
281 points by FiloSottile  2 days ago   68 comments top 9
masklinn 2 days ago 1 reply      
> But to be clear, rustgo is not a real thing that you should use in production. For example, I suspect I should be saving g before the jump, the stack size is completely arbitrary, and shrinking the trampoline frame like that will probably confuse the hell out of debuggers. Also, a panic in Rust might get weird.

> To make it a real thing I'd start by calling morestack manually from a NOSPLIT assembly function to ensure we have enough goroutine stack space (instead of rolling back rsp) with a size obtained maybe from static analysis of the Rust function (instead of, well, made up).

> It could all be analyzed, generated and built by some "rustgo" tool, instead of hardcoded in Makefiles and assembly files.

Maybe define a Go target to teach Rust about the Go calling conventions? You may also want to use "xargo", which is specially built for stripping or customising "std" and to work with targets without binary stdlib support.

danenania 2 days ago 4 replies      
I haven't tried Rust yet, but I've been building libraries in Ruby, Node, and Python that call into a shared Go core, and my experience has been that the best approach is to simply compile static executable binaries for every platform, then call out to them in each language via stdin/stdout. I tried cgo, .so files, and the like, bit this was a lot more trouble and had issues on both Windows and alpine-flavored linuxes.

Is there some issue with this approach that I'm missing? Is the additional process overhead really enough that it's worth bending over backwards to avoid it?

uluyol 2 days ago 0 replies      
Building the rust code into a syso file might make the (user) build process easier here. This is used for the race detector (based on tsan) and there's an example of building and using one in the dev.boringcrypto branch. This would require a package author to create syso files for all GOOS, GOARCH combinations they care about. Although GOOS might not matter depending on whether any syscalls can be made from rust.


drej 2 days ago 0 replies      
This is crazy. I love it.
ericfrederich 2 days ago 0 replies      
Language interop in 2017 is still pretty dismal.

C is still the common denominator, you'd think it'd be easy, but it's hard. Years ago when LLVM was showing promise and Google was going to get Python running on top of it I was hopeful.

I guess nowadays it's a better design to run separate processes and have your languages communicate out of process (pipes, http, etc) rather than in-process.

kmicklas 2 days ago 4 replies      
If you're already writing Rust, why would you even bother writing Go?
dm319 2 days ago 1 reply      

 Go strives to find defaults that are good for its core use cases, and only accepts features that are fast enough to be enabled by default, in a constant and successful fight against knobs
Made me chuckle.

artursapek 2 days ago 3 replies      
Is rust actually faster than go? I had no idea.
smegel 2 days ago 1 reply      
What has this got to do with Rust? Nothing. He could have called any C library and it would have been exactly the same. I am pretty sure there is a crypto library or two written in C.

He is just writing a more direct manual version of CGo in assembly that bypasses a lot of what CGo does, to be much faster.

> Before anyone tries to compare this to cgo

The only meaningful message in this blog is it possible to write a faster CGo, that's it. Comparing it to CGo is the only useful possible outcome, but...

> But to be clear, rustgo is not a real thing that you should use in production. For example, I suspect I should be saving g before the jump, the stack size is completely arbitrary, and shrinking the trampoline frame like that will probably confuse the hell out of debuggers. Also, a panic in Rust might get weird.

So when you actually fix all those things you might be back where CGo was at the beginning.

This guy comes across as a classic "but i wanna be cool" hacker who discovers that when you bypass all the normal protections in a library and make some kind of direct custom call, things can be faster.

I guess so what?

       cached 18 August 2017 04:11:01 GMT