hacker news with inline top comments    .. more ..    6 Sep 2011 Best
home   ask   best   8 years ago   
The Patent Pledge paulgraham.com
613 points by anateus  5 days ago   192 comments top 79
tc 5 days ago  replies      
It's not immediately clear to me whether this solves any part of the current problem. But on reflection, I believe I understand the motivation here.

Big companies that use patents as a revenue stream (MSFT, IBM, etc.) typically bide their time and bring a patent lawsuit once a new company is established and there is blood to drain. It's the threat of such a lawsuit in the future that can negatively impact investment in a startup, as the right collection of patents could conceivably capture much of the economic surplus of a new venture. Alternatively, a big company might use the threat of a patent lawsuit, now or in the future, to push a young company to agree to an early acquisition.

The pledge doesn't seem to have much impact on these scenarios, even if a big company were to follow it rigorously.

Most of us, I believe, would prefer to see companies make a stronger commitment: "No first use of software patents" [period]. Google hasn't made this pledge, but to the best of my knowledge, they've acted in this way so far. It does seem in line with "don't be evil."

That said, I think I see what PG is going for here. He wants companies to make a pledge that, at a minimum, allows a new product or service to be tested on the market. That way, if it gathers traction, it will attract investment despite the threat of patents, and the new company will be able to mount a reasonable defense.

Perhaps more importantly, though, by allowing the product to succeed first, even in a modest way, it makes the offensive use of patents worse PR for the big company. Killing a successful product with patents is no longer an abstract issue. It takes away from customers and the market something very real.

beagle3 5 days ago 5 replies      
I disagree that this will help, because the established companies the pledge would apply to are a secondary problem and mostly seem to fight each other (has Microsoft asserted patents against a startup? has IBM? has AT&T? when they asserted patents it was against multi-million dollar businesses!). The primary problem is patent trolls (see e.g. lodsys / intellectual ventures) for whom this pledge could be considered self-harm.

I will quote myself from [ http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2855835 ] here for another solution, one that actually can _easily_ go through government (except for the intense lobbying against it by whoever enjoys the current patent regime); you can read there for some discussion if it is interesting. Quoth myself (with minor editing):

Intellectual "Property Tax". Have everyone declare the value of their intellectual "property" (patents, copyrights, trademarks) - each and every item, for that year, on their tax return, and have them pay 1% of the value as "IP tax", per year.

Clarification: you can set a different value every year. The value may drop to zero because a competitor's patent solves the problem better; or it may go up because it becomes essential to something that becomes commonplace.

That amount is what one pays for a compulsory license or if successfully sued, and up to 3 times that for willful infringement, per year -- and no more. (But of course, a patent owner can always negotiate a lower payment, as is done with music recordings that have compulsory license agreements)

All of a sudden, everyone has an incentive to state a reasonable value for their patent. Copyright catalogs that are not being published (old music recordings, old books, old movies) would be assigned 0 value by copyright holder, to avoid tax - which means anyone can freely make a copy. If they believe -- at the end of the year -- that someone is making a profit at their expense, they can set the value as high as they want at the end of that year, pay the tax, and sue the profiteer.

Simple, elegant, and coffer filling.

edit: put missing link

edit: added clarification about setting value each year anew.

ansy 5 days ago 3 replies      
PG, was this pledge created in response to litigation you have experienced with YC companies?

There doesn't seem to be much evidence companies with fewer than 25 employees are getting sued unless there's something left unspoken here.

I think it would be more constructive to begin the discussion of what patent reform should resemble so that companies and individuals can show support for it. Some kind of software patent working group that can put forward a vision that everyone can get behind. If enough people and companies come to support a way of thinking then it will slowly affect current behavior and ultimately shape the legal framework of the future.

Even if it was a problem that companies smaller than 25 were being sued for patent infringement, I'm not sure the legal litmus test should be how many employees are at the company.

dctoedt 5 days ago 1 reply      
AlexBlox asks in an earlier comment: "does publicly stating this pledge bust any opportunity to double back (i.e. it is more legally binding than just a pledge?)"

A court might well hold a company to such a pledge, on a theory of "equitable estoppel." This type of defense to an infringement charge is always highly fact-specific; here's an example of a case in which the defense succeeded:

A patent owner accused a manufacturer of eyeglass frames---which it had previously sued for infringement---of infringing other patents. After back-and-forth correspondence---in which the manufacturer denied infringement---the patent owner went silent for three years. In the meantime, the eyeglass manufacturer expanded its marketing efforts for the products in question.

The trial court held that the manufacturer was not liable for infringement, on grounds that the patent owner's actions, in view of all the circumstances, had misled the manufacturer into thinking it would not be sued. The appeals court found no error in this holding [1]; it explained that:

"In the context of patent infringement, the three elements of equitable estoppel that must be established are:

(1) the patentee, through misleading conduct, led the alleged infringer to reasonably believe that the patentee did not intend to enforce its patent against the infringer;

(2) the alleged infringer relied on that conduct; and

(3) due to its reliance, the alleged infringer would be materially prejudiced if the patentee were permitted to proceed with its charge of infringement."

[1] Aspex Eyewear, Inc. v. Clariti Eyewear, Inc., 605 F. 3d 1305 (Fed. Cir. 2010) (affirming summary judgment in favor of accused infringer), http://www.cafc.uscourts.gov/images/stories/opinions-orders/...

acangiano 5 days ago 1 reply      
> Please join them!

Paul, there is a major oversight here. The site http://thepatentpledge.org/ doesn't even have a contact form. Also, you may want to make the links nofollow.

nailer 5 days ago 1 reply      
Patent trolling big companies is just as unethical as trolling small ones.

PG: Red Hat, a multibillion dollar business, already has a working patent pledge - they won't use patents except defensively against people who attack them first. Copy that and use it.

geebee 5 days ago 0 replies      
One line from this essay has me a little worried...

"A clumsy parasite may occasionally kill the host, but that's not its goal"

This came up in a previous discussion on HN where I made essentially the same point. As someone pointed out in response, a parasite can get away with killing off the host as long as there's somewhere else to go next. In fact, a parasite could wipe out an entire species as long as it can make the jump to something more resilient.

it was just a short aside, but here's a link the the thread...


ScottBurson 5 days ago 1 reply      
Here's another proposal that doesn't rest on social pressure, the effectiveness of which I fear Paul overestimates.

Start a non-profit coalition with the following rules:

(1) All patent disputes between members will be resolved by binding arbitration. The arbiters are a panel of domain experts (not lawyers!). There is no presumption that an issued patent is valid.

(2) If a member of the coalition is sued by a non-member, the other members of the coalition make their entire portfolios available for a defensive countersuit. When a member's patent is used to defend another member, the former is compensated by the latter on terms set by arbitration.

(3) There is no restriction on using one's own patents to sue non-members.

It would also be stated policy, at least in the areas of software and business model patents, that the arbiters would be directed to apply a very high standard of obviousness, so that most issued patents would be of little use in an arbitrated dispute.

Could such a thing work? No voluntary system can address the patent troll problem, as trolls have nothing to gain by joining it. But for practicing entities, it seems to me that membership in such a coalition could be beneficial, by reducing the likely number and expense of patent disputes.

bpm140 5 days ago 5 replies      
PG suggests that this won't stop the trolls but it might deter more traditional companies.

Does anyone have stats on who is doing the most damage to early companies? Given the press, it's easy to think that trolls are the biggest offenders by an order of magnitude. Is there data that suggests otherwise?

guelo 5 days ago 3 replies      
My personal pledge is that as a programmer I refuse to work for any company that goes on the attack with software patents, this obviously includes Apple and Microsoft. I also refuse to participate if asked by my company to help create a patent, I am willing to be fired over this.

Since good programmers are a scarce resource if enough of us took this pledge it could really start having an effect.

brianlash 5 days ago 1 reply      
Because it's one line and because its implications are that important:

For quantities you can count (windows, money, people...), the word is "fewer." For quantities you can't, the word is "less"

The pledge should read: No first use of software patents against companies with fewer than 25 people.

gphil 5 days ago 1 reply      
The content of the pledge seems to indicate that there are a lot of (or at least some) cases where large companies are suing very small companies (< 25 people) over patent infringement. Is this the case? I've only heard about the patent litigation between the tech giants, and not anything about small firms getting sued by larger ones. Are there any recent/high profile examples of this that I missed? Or is it just something that goes unreported?
ayanb 5 days ago 2 replies      
From the http://thepatentpledge.org/ website -


These companies have agreed to be the first to publicly renounce aggressive use of software patents on small companies. Please join them!

A Thinking Ape,


I think the whole YC gang is going to promote this aggressively, which means a strong network effect. Remains to been seen what happens outside this network.

maximilianburke 5 days ago 1 reply      
So if a company grows beyond it's sub-25 people are they expected to then license any technology they're infringing on? Could this lead to an even bigger penalty if the company is made aware that they are infringing when they are small and doesn't act on it when they grow, thus willfully infringing?
bshanks 4 hours ago 0 replies      
Jennifer Urban and Jason Schultz are developing a legal construction called the DPL (defensive patent license) to solve this problem.


Adaptive 5 days ago 0 replies      
This is a "spirit of the law" with no "law".

PG's solution, while elegant and functional for individuals, will fail for corporations.

We have a spirit-of-the-law in America with regards to being a citizen: you pay taxes and receive benefits of living here. Corporate persons are, one would imagine, also party to this spirit of the law, yet they not only ignore the spirit, they find ways around the tax laws on a regular basis.

Even if companies were forced to comply with this by law, they'd just find away around it. Sub-25 person shell companies making up large corporations. Who knows.

The fundamental problem is the same as with the rest of corporate personhood: we have given corporations the rights of individuals but they lack the implicit ethics and social peer pressures which result in moral behavior.

dotBen 5 days ago 2 replies      
I'd like to see a different Patent Pledge.

One where software engineers pledge not to participate in formal patent creation. Because ultimately, all of the software patents out there were 'authored' by a software engineer. You have to have the person that actually invented the new implementation on the document.

Sure, your employment contract says that any IP you create on your employer's dime is owned by your employer. And so, sure, they could go out and pursue a patent for some new implementation that you invent. But you can stand up and say no, that you won't participate in the 'patentization' of your work (ie the formal, legal work to obtain the patent).

And without your involvement, it would likely fail. It certainly makes a statement internally and externally, at least.

How does this work? Well, you can make that commitment - in writing and verbally - when you join a company. Or you could simply state as much, formerly, in an email to your boss and superiors tonight when you get home.

With the software engineering talent market what it is anyone but a dope-shit code monkey has the leverage to dictate terms.

danmaz74 5 days ago 0 replies      
I appreciate the good intention of this proposal, but it doesn't really make so much sense. Tech startups are small businesses, but their goal is to grow. With that pledge you could only grow up to 24 employees, and what then? You're ready to be slaughtered?

This problem needs to be fixed at its root, with a different law.

SoftwarePatent 5 days ago 3 replies      
This pledge boils down to "shine light on bad actors", but I doubt it will change any behavior. Only rent-seekers [1] want software patents to exist, and you can't decrease their reputation any more, it's already 0.

The S. Ct. already had their big chance in Bilski to dial back software patentability, and they blew it. Our only hope is Congress. (/me shudders hopelessly)

And to anyone suggesting we abolish patents completely: they increase societal utility in many sectors, most notably pharmaceuticals.

[1] lawyers and trolls.

samgro 5 days ago 3 replies      
I have a PG question for PG: what problem does this solve?

I see 2 problems currently.

1. Microsoft suing Android makers, and other similar examples, where large companies burn billions of dollars of our economy over something pointless.

2. Patent trolls like Intellectual Ventures and their shell companies suing startups.

How does this solve either of these problems? Who really needs this?

corbet 5 days ago 0 replies      
Companies with less than 25 people are relatively unlikely to have sufficiently deep pockets to attract patent attacks in the first place. And trolls, of course, won't care about the pledge. Nice idea, but doesn't seem that useful to me.
Estragon 5 days ago 1 reply      
I suppose it would be a good start, but the self-interest in this proposal stinks a bit. What's the distribution of employee numbers in companies in which Y Combinator has a stake?
nathanb 5 days ago 0 replies      
Potential problem: I suspect many patent troll companies are small (<25 people), and the patent pledge could potentially prevent companies from taking preemptive action against these trolls. I don't think this is a dealbreaker, but it's a probably unintended consequence which should be drawn out.
EGreg 4 days ago 0 replies      
The purpose of patents, as I understand it, is to propose a compromise in order to promote innovation: the company which publicly discloses its non-obvious innovations through a patent is granted a MONOPOLY RIGHT by the government, and enforced by the courts, to prevent anyone else from implementing this invention without paying licenses. (Depending on the country, they may be forced to offer licensing, or not.)

In the software industry, patents are unnecessary. Because whatever is patented, even if it is not obvious WHEN patented, it (or a variant of it that falls under the patent) nevertheless becomes OBVIOUS to lots of people a mere 3-4 years later. Therefore, we can easily explain how a 20-year monopoly has wound up HURTING the industry rather than helping it. Companies implement an invention WITHOUT rummaging through new patents that come out every year. It is obvious that most of the stuff implemented in the software industry was arrived at in a different way. Non-practicing entities can sue those who actually implemented the invention 3-4 years later. Meanwhile, those who implemented it, get hit with a suit.

Therefore, patents have now become a tax on innovation.

I repeat: the inventions were not obvious AT THE TIME THEY WERE PATENTED. And, those who ultimately implemented them DID NOT READ THE PATENTS in order to get the idea for the invention. Therefore the system is not serving its purpose.

Patents are an exchange between the inventor and the public. The inventor discloses how an invention works, and in return gets a monopoly for 20 years so that no one else can implement it.

In open source, the IMPLEMENTOR not only discloses a theoretical thing but actually builds it AND releases all the inner workings of it, AND others can build on top of it. So we get the upside with no monopoly. Why do we need the latter, then, if so much innovation happens without it?

AlexBlom 5 days ago 0 replies      
I like the idea of pledging, though there may be some variance (what if a startup violates a startup, margin is high, the technical innovation was real, etc?) That being said, there is a lot to be said in simplicity.

I'm no lawyer - I have to ask the logical question - does publicly stating this pledge bust any opportunity to double back (i.e. it is more legally binding than just a pledge?)

ianlevesque 5 days ago 0 replies      
This is ultimately not a helpful avenue to pursue. Asking companies to please not abuse a favorite group of companies (in this case startups) is not a solution to this problem. It's very similar in my opinion to the patent exceptions being carved out in congress right now for the finance industry (their favorite group of companies). We need to be striving to help everyone with patent reform, not just our favorite types of companies.
greengarstudios 5 days ago 0 replies      
pg is concerned with startups, and I am too. But I think a lot of the rest of the world is concerned about what's going on between, say, Apple and HTC.
pilom 5 days ago 0 replies      
"when established companies with bad products use patents to suppress small competitors with good products. This is the type of abuse we may be able to decrease"

This is not abuse. This is the purpose of a patent. It gives you the ability to be as shitty as you want and still be the only gig in town. Society says "wow you're terrible, but thanks for letting us all know how you did it!"

wingo 5 days ago 0 replies      
The thing is, does software innovation happen in companies? Yes, but also no: universities and free software also play a role.

Patents are largely a problem of companies buying government. But what about the people?

EGreg 4 days ago 0 replies      
I agree with pg, although I am concerned this might take away from the urge to reform software patents the real way:

I would propose to eliminate software patents, or limit their time frame to 2 years. The industry moves way too fast and 17 years is way too long. I know pg wrote that "if you are against software patents, you are against patents", but consider this: the 17 years are completely out of proportion to how quickly the software industry moves. And the pace at which they are submitted is simply too great for the patent office to do anything appropriate in most cases. When we apply the patent trade-off to it, you get a negative result, not a positive one.

The patent trade-off is essentially that the company discloses their "secret" invention to the public, in exchange for a 17 year MONOPOLY (enforced by the government) on so much as implementing this invention in any context.

In software, innovations such as "in-app purchases" or "one-click buying" may not be obvious in 1997, but a couple years later they become "incremental improvements" that are pretty obvious to everyone. In fact, OPENNESS (open source, especially on the web with HTML, CSS and Javascript) has been the biggest driver of innovation, and not patents. Clearly, there are other motivations besides having a monopoly, and those motivations don't need the patent system at all. In contrast, they are being stifled by the patent system.

No one read the lodsys patent in order to "invent" in-app purchases. They were just bloody obvious to implement when the time came. Almost any experienced practitioner in the art would have said it was obvious when they were introduced. Then Lodsys came out of the shadows and demanded money.

My point is that the very purpose of patents is being undermined. It is supposed to promote innovation, by letting companies feel safe disclosing their "trade secrets" and "secret inventions". In reality, though, these inventions are extremely obvious to everyone when they are introduced a couple years later, and all software patents accomplish is the downside of the compromise: namely, a patent troll (a company that never implements anything, but just files patents) actually comes out and leeches money from those who DO implement the innovation.

That makes innovation more expensive, and patents become like a tax on those who actually IMPLEMENT ideas -- which we all know is much more important than merely HAVING them. For up to 17 years anyone implementing this will have to pay, and is the industry better off? Not at all. It moves so fast, that in a couple years, what was patented by a troll becomes the next obvious step. Software patents for 17 years are not benefiting society.

bengebre 5 days ago 0 replies      
Having just listened to the "When Patents Attack!" podcast today (http://www.npr.org/blogs/money/2011/07/26/138576167/when-pat...), I question how this addresses what I saw as the fundamental challenge with patent trolls -- shell corporations. These companies are spawned as needed to sue the alleged patent infringers. Since the shell companies are just a bunch of lawyers and the ownership of a patent, there's little in the way of assets to counter sue for (i.e. there's not much for the suing entity to lose). I don't think these guys will be swayed by a moral or ethical argument either. And since these shell companies don't employ coders, well, I don't expect it will impact who coders decide to work for.
collint 5 days ago 0 replies      
I think you could come up with some sort of patent truce, you use a search engine that finds overlapping patents. The truce comes with a constitution/trust that declares some metrics for that search engine. Any patents that go over that metric are not to be used for litigation by members of the truce.

You can require members of the trust to invest in the trust at level relative to market cap. Breaking the trust results in loss of the assets/cash invested. The trust can also fund a defense pool/lobbying budget to protect the interests of the trust. Namely that members outside of the trust cannot successfully litigate on patents the trust hase agreed are frivolous.

edit: obviously transparency, open membership and some high profile members are useful for such a plan.

wharryman 5 days ago 0 replies      
Several have already pointed out that this pledge doesn't address the top biggest issues with the patent system: Non-Practicing Entities (trolls) and 'weaponized' IP litigation.

It would be more interesting if someone with the necessary legal muscle could design an effective and legal "IP shelter" from the U.S. patent system . The structure would be some series of foreign companies/organizations that could claim immunity for internet products as they would be 'foreign' and therefore not infringing. There are obviously many legal and tax issues that make this difficult (PCT, not viable for physical products, etc). However, if it could be designed and then templatized, much like Series funding documents have become, then it would allow any startup, but especially ones that attempt to tackle traditionally hostile industries (MAFIAA), to exist in a 'safe haven' away from the utter nonsense that US intellectual property has become.

Even if it creates some $X burden on startups, I am sure that most startups would be willing to pay this expense if it takes the risk of an Armageddon-like legal suit out of their startup picture. It would also be a forcing function on the US legislature due to loss of prestige and possibly revenue (imagine if the next Google incorporates in Canada and only a subsidiary works in California due to patent concerns).

djb 5 days ago 0 replies      
This is a nitpick but I think the pledge should read "No first use of software patents against companies with fewer than 25 people," since people are countable:


Kilimanjaro 4 days ago 0 replies      
There are millions of programmers in the world and most of us don't like patents. That should be enough to prohibit them by consensus. If we don't raise our voices in our own field, nobody else will do it for us.

I applaud that move.

bfe 5 days ago 0 replies      
This might usefully and reasonably be expanded to cover an individual or a non-profit of any size including universities, as well as a small company, in parallel with the Patent Office's definition of a "small entity" for reduced fees.[1] Companies suing universities for patent infringement for doing research is similarly problematic for innovation.

And, I think the intent would be served equally well by getting rid of the restriction to software patents.

[1] Although the small entity rules define a small company as a maximum of 500 employees, rather than 25.

mhp 5 days ago 0 replies      
Why not just have all companies pledge not to settle frivolous patent suits? The way the trolls make their money is by realizing that its cheaper for these companies to settle than to duke it out in court. The lawyers don't even care if you aren't infringing because it really doesn't matter. The trolls survive because people aren't willing to fight it out against them and they can pick on the weaker and smaller companies. If everyone said at the outset, "I will fight to the death a frivolous patent suit with all of my resources" the trolls would run out of easy targets.
jessriedel 5 days ago 0 replies      
From what I understand, the key points of software patent reform would be (a) significantly raise the bar of "non-obvious" and (b) shorten software patent lifetimes. The related issues of small companies being at a disadvantage (due to economies of scale with litigation and patent portfolios) seems rather orthogonal.

Since this pledge would only address this issue of secondary importance, which seems a lot less salient to the public, I can't imagine it getting off the ground.

chc 5 days ago 0 replies      
Have any lawyer-types looked at this? IANAL, but I kind of doubt corporate lawyers will allow this even informally. For any target that a big company would want to sue, I'm pretty sure that going through with this pledge would leave the company vulnerable to a laches defense (basically, "You should have sued me before I invested billions in this") once the little startups aren't so little anymore. If I'm talking nonsense, anyone can feel free to correct me. It will be cool if this works.
dodo53 4 days ago 0 replies      
What about as a further peer-pressure type 'good citizenship' patent thing - a voluntary pay $x per patent in your portfolio to a non-profit which uses money to search existing patent-base and seek to preemptively invalidate invalid/frivolous patents. You could have a little badge on your website or some such.
damonpace 5 days ago 0 replies      
The only problem I see with patents is the legal process (legal bullying). It should not take 2 years and $1 million to prove your innovation does not conflict with another patent. That's ridiculous! Ideas & companies are killed by the threat & cost of going through a lawsuit, not by the threat of actually losing a law suit. That's why so many companies would rather pay a fee to use a patent than actually go through a lengthly lawsuit to fight the patent owner. (See Microsoft & many phone manufacturers.) It's called legal bullying, not patent failure. It doesn't just happen in the school yard anymore. PG is simply trying to get the 6th graders to stop picking on the kindergartners, so the kindergartners can play safely in their own playground.
bourdine 4 days ago 0 replies      
PG, you're absolutely right - IP is a real problem, that so far no one has decided,
but I think Moon have also another one side -
limits to 25 will run to huge number of small startups that can not be grow more then 25 peoples and
this is can stops investment from venture capitalists.
I think, we dont need draw a line between huge and small startups. We just need another patent system - transparent
and work well as we need. At first, we need to know, was gived a patent on our inventions or not - by few clicks.
At second - we need to know, what kind of invention and claims for it was pended but still have not sugessted.
At third, we need to see all climes of concurents patents - because we are allways can invent another one claims, and
build on them ower new products, that we can protect.
I think we can solve this problem - as technicians, we are much easier to prepare a bill
and after appeal to members of Congress or the legislature with a request to meet our demands.

We need to change the whole system. Obtaining a patent should be a simple thing as buying a domain name
or product in the online store. Now, placing an order, we practically give it to the blind -
we do not know if already issued a patent for the same invention or is it the same invention is filed by someone.
We do not know this and therefore has a great chance that in six months we will
letter of refusal and then we just lose time. This is I'm think about. And, IP and Patents is a strongly related to my startup,
I'm will apply to YC W12.

huhtenberg 5 days ago 0 replies      
Just a relevant anecdote from the trenches -- a friend of a friend was a co-founder in Israeli start-up and they were approached by a Redmond company with an investment inquiry. An inquiry which was backed by a patent that would've been used to sue the startup should they not enter negotiations. And so they "negotiated" and in the end took the money. The end.
briguy 5 days ago 0 replies      
I am sure there are a thousand reasons that these ideas would not be feasible, however I have been thinking of two other approaches towards software and business process patent reform.
(1) would be to shorten the time that a patent is valid to 1 year . Give the Company who 'invents' (and goes through the patent process) a small head start, however in today's quickly changing world, I think that this shorter time-frame is more proportionally in-line with the R&D investment of these types of processes. Patents that protect the Physical items (that in general are more costly to develop and take a longer time to implement due to the more expensive and time consuming manufacturing processes) the protection would remain longer (engines, chip-sets, medicines, etc)
I think that these shorter term-limits will shake out the patent trolls, yet still allow a patent holder some opportunity to leverage their work and license to companies that could not wait the 1 year, however after that, it is all about execution.
(2)Perhaps another approach (and much less realistic) would be to keep the existing term limits, but have a prix-fixe license fee schedule/menu for all software and business processes. There would be a few Tiers of patents (i.e. Class 1, Class 2, Class 3, etc). You would apply to a patent (and a Class) and the license fees would spelled out for the annual license fees. Perhaps the Amazon 1-Click Patent would be Class-1 (i.e. "pretty darn obvious" and the fees would be $100 per year), etc. Anyone willing to pay the fee could license the patent (no one can be denied). This would also stop hoarding, and would allow people with legitimate inventions to monetize their investment, however still allow those that feel that they can execute to also move forward an innovate.
graiz 5 days ago 1 reply      
1. Large companies aren't on this list and are unlikely to put themselves on the list. There is no competitive advantage to be there.

2. There's a presupposition that small companies are somehow better then large companies. I can say that a company like Lodysys is likely under 25 people. You don't want to put yourself in a position where you have agreed not to be agressive with any company based on their size. Many of the Inc. 500 are under 25 people.

I'd rather see a simpler pledge.

> We will use our patens defensively, not offensively.
> (Optionally)
> We will license our patents only to others who will use them defensively.

T_S_ 5 days ago 0 replies      
Volunteerism doesn't work when there is too much money at stake. How much has that green consumer really done for the environment without assistance from a carbon tax? Like calls for conservation, this is well-intended, but a distraction from the real problem, which is that the patent system is badly engineered for innovation.
mas644 4 days ago 0 replies      
Not a bad idea...like Paul said, it's a start. Here's a comment that I read from some user on Slashdot regarding the Apple vs Samsung/Motorola patent dispute that summarizes my feelings:

"Look, you pack of fucking navel-gazing fucktards. Put down the fucking guns, agree to pool your resources to buy sufficient hookers and Caribbean vacations for Congresscritters to have the existing patent system tossed out the door. We get it that you all sort of started out accruing vast numbers of patents, some good, some bad, some absolutely fucking moronic, in no small part to fend off attacks from each other and from evil little patent trolls, but look at how it's complicating your lives. You couldn't roll out a steaming turd without someone somewhere trying to claim you infringed on a patent they own.

Apple, you're now one of the biggest companies around. If anyone can afford the required number of prostitutes, golf club memberships, or whatever it is those corrupted evil bastards in Congress have an appetite for. Google, come on, you could help out here, same with Samsung. Then you can, you know, compete on the quality of your products, rather than trying to stuff newspaper down each others throats in what can only be described as the bonfire of the idiots."

zdw 5 days ago 1 reply      
The number thing is abusable. Witness facebook still operating under the SEC's 500-person limit:


I'm not aware of any measurement method that any moderately smart rules lawyer (aka anyone who's played more than 5 hours of a strategy video game or pen and paper RPG) couldn't figure out a way around.

justinsb 5 days ago 0 replies      
Do non-trolls really bring patent cases against small companies? A company of <25 people probably doesn't have the cash to make a financial settlement worthwhile, and if a small company has a good product it'll have >25 people soon enough.
jakestein 5 days ago 0 replies      
Is there a way for other companies to make the pledge from that site? Or is this limited to friends of PG for now?
thethimble 5 days ago 0 replies      
The problem with this pledge is that any company that would make the pledge and stand by it already isn't a patent threat.

It's the companies that would make the pledge and break it or not even make the pledge at all that are the problem. Beyond a little peer/public pressure, this pledge does very little to address those companies.

marquis 5 days ago 0 replies      
I'm a fan of the declared, taxable value of patents rather than making an arbitrary pledge that could result in a surprise attack.

My main concern is that the knowledge of a small company possibly infringing on IP (regardless of whether you feel patents exist or not) greatly disrupts the acquisition options by a larger company, as they would devalue the smaller company based on expected patent licensing/legal attacks.

oemera 5 days ago 0 replies      
Great idea pg but what exactly does it fix? After you have 26 employees they will take you down like before the pledge. What can a company with 26 employees do against a arsenal of lawyers and patents? Do you think after having 26 employees you should have enough money to counter the attack?
matthodan 5 days ago 0 replies      
Does anyone else find the pledge hard to read/interpret? I think I read it 3 times before the meaning sunk in. Granted, I hadn't read the rest of PG's article yet. Short and memorable (e.g. "Don't be evil") might be better. My suggestion: "[Insert company] won't sue companies with less than 25 people for patent infringement." It ain't perfect, but that's what I got.
dethstarr 5 days ago 0 replies      
I think this is a good idea in theory, but the patent trolls are ruthless as ever. Their primary motivator is making money, and I doubt they'll stop their actions.

On the flipside, if this can garner public pressure against the trolls-- and perhaps some real action in changing the laws, I think the world would be a better place.

Keep it up Y Combinator!

mparr4 5 days ago 0 replies      
>Technology companies win by attracting the most productive people, and the most productive people are attracted to employers who hold themselves to a higher standard than the law requires.

The problem is, the ones doing the suing (like blackboard which PG mentioned in a comment elsewhere) are the weaker companies with a lot to lose (as mentioned in "Are Software Patents Evil") who probably aren't attracting the best people to work for them anyway.

artursapek 5 days ago 0 replies      
Speaking of patents, (although this is a month old now) I recommend everyone listen to the show This American Life did covering patent trolling: http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/441/w...
FredBrach 5 days ago 0 replies      
I think it solves everything unless patent trolling.

Here is why. Well let's say Microsoft marks its name into the current patent pledge because it's so green to be in the patent pledge even in its current form.

So now, it is the same as always, Microsoft will not be able to pursue ANY company which SEEMS to be a STARTUP at a given time from the point of view of the mass. Do you understand? Microsoft can't say: “Hey! Are you dumb? This company has 26 people so I can sue them. Don't troll me fools!” Hello the greenness… That's too late! The goal is to be green, nobody care about the strict truth. I think even a hype company with 500 people can be safe with the current patent pledge.

And probably it may even overtake the patent framework. It may be almost a "don't sue a startup" pledge.:d

lhnn 5 days ago 1 reply      
>Already most technology companies wouldn't sink to using patents on startups. You don't see Google or Facebook suing startups for patent infringement.

You would, however, see Facebook sue startups for using the word "book" in their website name.

earbitscom 5 days ago 0 replies      
PG - Could this lead to companies on the list agreeing not to license their patents to patent-unfriendly companies? Seems that could do a lot to pressure bigger companies into leaving smaller companies alone.
rsuttongee 5 days ago 0 replies      
I think this is a great idea and that it will prevent pledging companies from engaging in patent abuse, but I wonder how many large companies will bother to sign up for it. I imagine that if Apple/Google/MS all just take a pass that they won't catch much flak for doing so.

I wonder though if we could make the whole thing more effective by also adding an underlying threat to the pledge:

That any company, patent pledging or not, who violates the <25 rule will have their talent actively recruited away by those companies that have pledged.

abbottry 5 days ago 0 replies      
People make crappy products then slap patents on them so no one can compete with them. For the greater good of society this should be illegal, competition breeds innovation right, if you make something crappy, you should welcome someone else to make it better, after all, if it was something you actually used, YOU would want it to be the best, no?

Also, patent trolls that create patents for ideas they have, and are completely incapable of executing.

Software patents are crap.

tcarnell 4 days ago 0 replies      
Great stuff! I would add my company, but there is not point - I have no patents!

I think until we see Microsoft, Google, Oracle and Apple on that list it wont be worth much.... and if we do see Apple on that list, would be believe them? and would they care if we didn't believe them?

davedx 4 days ago 0 replies      
I'd like to see a site for crowd-sourced prior art. That would be cool.
Benjo 3 days ago 0 replies      
I'd love to see an rss feed on the pledge site.
jayfuerstenberg 4 days ago 0 replies      
I'm worried that this pledge would legitimize software patents on some level.

Even if the road to a software patent-free world is a long one I think it's better to pursue that than compromise this way.

What if a company hires its 26th employee? Is that an invitation to litigate?

I commend Paul Graham on at least trying to contribute his ideas but I think we need to think more on this.

cgopalan 4 days ago 0 replies      
I also hope the patent pledge site will progress towards discouraging companies like that of Like.com by including instances of how they shamelessly killed Modista. Like PG, I am still ambivalent about patents (though mostly believing they are bad), but clear cases of misuse like these need to be emphasized and publicized.
mikeklaas 5 days ago 0 replies      
Anyone know how many employees Lodsys has?
officialstation 4 days ago 0 replies      
I was checking the source code for http://thepatentpledge.org/ and noticed a reference to favicon.ico which is not there (returns a 404 Not Found): http://thepatentpledge.org/favicon.ico
mlinksva 5 days ago 0 replies      
''The patent pledge is in effect a narrower but open source "Don't be evil."''

I get 'narrower' but what does 'but open source' mean here?

piotrSikora 5 days ago 0 replies      
From the companies that pledged so far, how many actually holds any patents?
arikrak 5 days ago 0 replies      
Why should small companies deserve special protection? If the current patent system is just, let them sue anyone big or small. If the system is broken, they shouldn't be suing big companies either. How about a pledge not use ridiculous patents to sue anyone? That may be way too vague, but that would make more sense.
fedcir 5 days ago 0 replies      
Afer reading the story about Ugmode/Modista, a suggestion for any start-up facing this problem in the future:

1. Escalating embarrassment of like.com could have soured their potential acquisitions and forced them to settle.
2. If lawyers hear about your problem, they might help you. If you had the ability to reach every lawyer, professor and law student in the country, you would find someone. (Maybe not someone great, but someone who can at least avoid a default judgment and keep you in the game for another couple of years, and possibly emerge victorious.)

n.b. You do not need, or, probably, want, a patent attorney to litigate a patent case. Patent attorneys do tedious stuff with the PTO, courtroom litigators convince judges and juries. Nor do you need a lawyer from your city or state. You could have some kid fresh out of law school in Alabama dialing in to Northern District of California judicial teleconferences and filing your motions electronically.

-- Former patent litigator who would have liked to help, if he'd heard about this

gord 5 days ago 0 replies      
Its a bandaid where a bazooka is needed... but its an epsilon of improvement in the right direction.
motters 5 days ago 0 replies      
As far as I know, pledges are legally worthless.
philipkd 4 days ago 0 replies      
Can someone clarify for me, what does "no first use" mean? Does it mean you can't sue a small start-up for being the first to use a patent you already own?
idonthack 5 days ago 0 replies      
That's cute.
dev1n 5 days ago 0 replies      
It's the Gentleman's rule for patents.
Linux is now hosted on GitHub github.com
520 points by bpierre  1 day ago   89 comments top 16
blinkingled 23 hours ago 1 reply      
For anyone pulling the kernel tree from github - here is how you can verify it.

linux-2.6 $ git pull git://github.com/torvalds/linux.git

linux-2.6 $ git fetch --tags git://github.com/torvalds/linux.git

linux-2.6 $ gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys 76E21CBB

linux-2.6 $ git verify-tag v3.1-rc5

gpg: Signature made Sun 04 Sep 2011 06:45:37 PM EDT using DSA key ID 76E21CBB
gpg: Good signature from "Linus Torvalds (tag signing key) <torvalds@osdl.org>"

Mithrandir 1 day ago 0 replies      
Looks like he's using it as a temp place while master.kernel.org is down:


LeafStorm 1 day ago 3 replies      
I wouldn't go so far as to say "hosted" on Github. It's probably just a mirror, and/or Linus playing around with Github. Linux already has a very strong hierarchy for managing patches, and I certainly don't see them moving to a proprietary platform.
nphase 4 hours ago 0 replies      
I was wondering how long it would take for this to happen: https://github.com/torvalds/linux/pull/7#issuecomment-200563...
sliverstorm 1 day ago 1 reply      
Would not be entirely surprised if the attack on kernel.org made the community (or even just Linus) investigate alternative hosting.

I know nothing important was compromised, but nobody likes to deal with being hacked. It's like being the victim in a car accident- insurance makes you whole, but the whole experience sucks all the same.

antimora 1 day ago 2 replies      
Though I use Linux on daily basis, I see the source code for the first time.
compay 1 day ago 2 replies      
Kudos to Github. Hard to think of a better endorsement than that.
duggan 1 day ago 0 replies      
Presumably just Linus playing around with Github? There's been a mirror for some time - https://github.com/mirrors/linux-2.6 and https://github.com/mirrors/linux
bpierre 8 hours ago 0 replies      
mcritz 1 day ago 2 replies      
Days like today make me consider building from source. Until I sober up, anyway.
lee337 1 day ago 6 replies      
Someone discovered a bug... https://github.com/torvalds/linux/issues/1
dillon 23 hours ago 2 replies      
In less than 3 hours he gained 300 watchers, I wouldn't doubt that it'll be become the most popular repo on Github.
kuahyeow 23 hours ago 1 reply      
Has anyone managed to view the Github Impact graph ?https://github.com/torvalds/linux/graphs/impact
bcl 1 day ago 1 reply      
Should be a good test of github's infrastructure.
alastairpat 1 day ago 0 replies      
The network graph makes for interesting viewing.

I suppose it comes as no surprise that Linux makes extensive use of Git's features.

mkorfmann 11 hours ago 1 reply      
Seems like Bill Gates already forked it: https://github.com/bill-gates/linux. Will Windows 8 be based on Linux?
Google Correlate by Drawing google.com
462 points by franze  3 days ago   77 comments top 40
lhnz 3 days ago 5 replies      
Interesting to see what is dying: English Chinese Dictionaries, radio stations, Altavista, lyrics, text messaging, Flash.


And look what's getting more popular: Porn video sites, video sites, Facebook, Mac computers and how to work them -- particuarly how to take screenshots: this should be a tip-off to those of you working at Apple doing UX. ;)


Some of the stuff you would guess was becoming less or more popular but there is other stuff which is less obvious.

edit: This is super interesting:

Looks like Hacker News is gaining popularity exponentially, too. :)

pud 3 days ago 2 replies      
The "comic book" link on Correlate is awesome. More sites should have documentation like this.
joeyespo 3 days ago 1 reply      
This is fun. But apparently not "great fun" because according to this, great fun only happened in between 2005 and 2010.


javanix 3 days ago 0 replies      
Ok, that is way too addicting to visit during work hours.

I drew a standard bell-curve peaking in 2007 and then trailing off to zero into 2011 and everything was either Myspace searches or Washington Mutual credit searches.

Pretty nifty.

ayanb 3 days ago 1 reply      
From the whitepaper

"Google Correlate employs a novel approximate nearest neighbor (ANN) algorithm over millions of candidate queries in an online search tree to produce results similar to the batch-based approach employed by Google Flu Trends but in a fraction of a second."


3pt14159 3 days ago 0 replies      
I did a steady growth curve followed by a steep drop off: The result is amazing: http://www.google.com/trends/correlate/search?e=id:lSkySxGeo...
anigbrowl 3 days ago 0 replies      
Correlate is great, but the hand-drawn year-by-year search is really not all that useful - wither you have something in mind and prime your graph, or you get the obvious things.

Monthly correlations, however, would be tremendously useful. Every industry has its own calendar, conference season, and economic 'tides', and understanding these is a key marketing task.

boredguy8 3 days ago 2 replies      
"Free Text Messaging" is an interesting 4 year period, though it looks like it's dead as a search term now. Is this because of Google Voice? Or did people give up on the idea?


reustle 3 days ago 2 replies      
geuis 3 days ago 1 reply      
I drew a random hockey stick. It kind of matches the rise of dubstep pretty closely http://www.google.com/trends/correlate/search?e=id%3AOjXjy3O...
artursapek 3 days ago 0 replies      
Google is beginning to do things that I think are going to kick current market-research strategies off their feet. They have most of our lives being fed through their systems; they know what's going on in the world better than anyone.
danvk 3 days ago 0 replies      
If you like the drawing interaction itself and want to re-use it elsewhere, there's a self-contained version at http://dygraphs.com/tests/drawing.html which also features a zoom and eraser tool.
erikig 3 days ago 1 reply      
This can be an interesting way to identify hidden yearly trends too.

Drawing a zig zag with peaks (more sawtooth than sine wave) at beginnings of the years yields some interesting results and some things I've never even heard of like "slapped cheek syndrome" or fifth disease.

Apparently people are also extremely curious about the carbs in a grapefruit/orange at around the same time...



kurige 3 days ago 2 replies      
1. Take historical end-of-day market data for a stock market index fund and graph it on Google Correlate.

2. Find out what terms closely track said index.

3. Set up an auto-trader that responds to changes in the search frequency for said terms.

4. Sit back and watch the money roll in.

notintokyo 3 days ago 2 replies      
How is this so fast? I thought to compare charts like these you have to slide every chart over every offset to get the best match?
cabirum 3 days ago 0 replies      
iy56 3 days ago 0 replies      
And if you visit the parent page (http://www.google.com/trends/correlate/), you can search for a term and see it's graph, along with strongly correlated queries.
judofyr 3 days ago 0 replies      

Makes me wonder if web developers finally switched to full SSL, or if browsers stopped showing the error…

ayanb 3 days ago 0 replies      
"Windows Mobile Pocket PC" , "Palm Treo Software", "Blackberry forum" and "flash flv" all have the same curve :)


socialmediaking 3 days ago 0 replies      
I got this on my first draw. I was looking at things growing rapidly from 2009 on. What are the odds? http://i.imgur.com/yYL1D.png
ColinDabritz 3 days ago 0 replies      
So it looks like 'Depression' is on the school schedule (see the spikes down for winter break, the heavy correlation with academic topics)

I wonder how much is psychology research, and how much is side effects of school?

Some of the coincident correlations are really funny.

It looks like OS X Lion had an unofficial mascot! (or the movie promotion timeline matched the lion hype buildup)

flaviojuvenal 3 days ago 0 replies      
GIFs are coming back. I believe it is because the huge popularity of GIF flooded Tumblrs of teenagers:

Also, it is nice to see summer related results:
Spider Vein, according to Wikipedia, may be caused by "environmental damage such as that caused by sun or cold exposure". And Asiatic Lily is a flower that grows on July.

shazam 3 days ago 0 replies      
0.9665 correlation between "iphone" and "cancel tmobile". Amazing.


earlyriser 3 days ago 0 replies      
Testing a yearly and incremental peak give me the "nc state basketball". I guess something like this could give me the Oscars or Superbowl changing the peak time: http://www.google.com/trends/correlate/search?e=id:nspW2uQjx...
sirclueless 3 days ago 2 replies      
Hah. I did an exponential curve and sure enough there was "dropbox" at 0.9220 correlation.
TomGullen 3 days ago 1 reply      
Very cool but quite useless. I guess you might be able to spot emerging trends if you spent a bit of time on it though.
sunspeck 2 days ago 0 replies      
The comments here suggest that many folks don't realize you can correlate to a precise dataset, not just a hand-drawn trendline.

Click the link next to the search button. "Enter your own data" or "Edit this data".

Anyone got a good time series?

lelf 3 days ago 0 replies      
Different time period gives “Oops”



makepanic 3 days ago 0 replies      
zerostar07 3 days ago 1 reply      
Apparently the acronym "OOMF" is hot right now: http://www.google.com/trends/correlate/search?e=id:lhfq3Utw3...
tonio09 3 days ago 0 replies      
Google Correlate as well as Trends are awesome. Why is google providing these data mining services for free to everyone? How are they making money from it?
clistctrl 3 days ago 2 replies      
This is seriously an awesome proof of technology, but what is a practical purpose for it?
swah 3 days ago 0 replies      
I wish there was someone I could talk about this IRL.
wavephorm 3 days ago 0 replies      
Doesn't work on an iPad.
knowtheory 3 days ago 0 replies      
Well. That doesn't work on an iPad.
schrototo 3 days ago 0 replies      
This would be infinitely more useful if it was backed by some actual data instead of those utterly useless search activity patterns. Why not combine a search like this with something like Wolfram Alpha?

What a waste...

edit: Seriously, wouldn't this be so much cooler if it gave us a new way to explore mathematical and scientific data?

If we could draw any curve and it would present us with matching constants, physical laws, mathematical proofs & theorems that have some correlation with the input data, chemical and biological data points, information from sociological studies, historical statistics...

My job is to watch dreams die reddit.com
389 points by SandB0x  1 day ago   56 comments top 12
sudonim 1 day ago 6 replies      
I've been following the housing bust.

In 2009, I remember reading a resignation later by a guy who made his "F* you money" betting for a housing collapse. He blasted the big banks, ivy leaguers, and old boys network.

I bought complex derivatives (SRS, SKF) but lost betting against the market.

I read http://calculatedriskblog.com for a while and educated myself about the macro factors in the markets.

Through "calculated risk", I learned of Jim the Realtor http://www.bubbleinfo.com/ who videos (vacant) casualties of the housing collapse. Seeing it made it real for me.

Over time, I've realized that the further from reality that decisions are being made, the more likely we are to make destructive decisions.

When soldiers kill people with drone aircraft in video game-like conditions, it removes the reality from something that would be extremely traumatizing when done with bare hands.

In our wonderfully complex world, we sow complexity, and reap disaster. Im not sure what the answer is, but there is something terribly wrong when destruction is more profitable than creation.

patrickk 1 day ago 2 replies      
There's a Hollywood blockbuster waiting to be made out of a story like this (as noted in some of the Reddit comments). Something along the lines of Fight Club (grimy house scenes, top-notch monologue) or Lord of War/Up in the Air (someone doing a toxic job but good at it).
pseudonym 1 day ago 1 reply      
Both interesting and depressing. No matter who you think should ultimately take the blame for the housing crash, it's easy to forget how many people other than just the homeowners are affected by this crap.
molbioguy 1 day ago 0 replies      
Looking at a beautiful albeit narrow slice of something can hurt you (even though it feels good) because you fail to see the larger picture (which may not be so pretty). It introduces a bias that may lead you to incorrect conclusions and bad decisions. Enjoy the craft, but be wary.
tonio09 1 day ago 1 reply      
this was very emotional article. very sad indeed. isnt it weird that all front page articles on reddit are overtly emotional? it seems that plain groundbreaking research papers will never make it to the frontpage...
sgt 1 day ago 0 replies      
Nearly read "My dream is to watch Jobs die". I am far too tired to read HN right now.
mike55 1 day ago 0 replies      
It thought it will be a post by a VC.
nazgulnarsil 1 day ago 0 replies      
First world problems....
forinti 1 day ago 0 replies      
Tom Waits should put a melody on that.
jamaicahest 1 day ago 0 replies      
And the influx of redditors on HN is complete.
davedx 1 day ago 5 replies      
Interesting, but hacker news? Come on... if I wanted general news, then I'd go to Reddit.
ristretto 1 day ago 1 reply      
Since i m not going to read it, can somebody please post a tl;dr here: http://tldrplz.com ?


US Government seeks to block AT&T & T-Mobile's $39 Billion Merger bloomberg.com
364 points by ldayley  5 days ago   162 comments top 24
jordanb 5 days ago 5 replies      
There are more than a half a million reasons why Congress will attempt to block this lawsuit:


My guess is that Boehner will announce a bill to "defund" it shortly. That seems to be their favorite way to control the executive currently.

As a very happy T-Mobile customer, I nearly punched my monitor when I saw the announcement that it was going to be consumed by the Death Star. I did not have faith that the justice department had the cajoles or the honesty to actually try and stop it. I still have little faith that the government will be able to stop it, given that Congress has dropped all pretense of being anything other than available to the highest bidder.

ansy 5 days ago 3 replies      
The DOJ may be using its leverage to get better concessions out of AT&T. Basically, because AT&T set such a big cancellation fee for itself, the DOJ can bargain up to just less than that amount. It's saying, "shape up or we'll seriously make you eat that $7 billion fee!" I actually think the huge cancellation fee means the deal is more likely to happen because AT&T will tolerate a lot of regulatory arm twisting before walking away.

Exactly what AT&T will need to do I'm not sure. AT&T will probably be forced to sell any T-Mobile operations that overlap with AT&T's existing service just like in the Verizon-Alltel merger a couple years ago. Presumably this will be to small regional carriers so choice is preserved for people in those areas. AT&T will probably need to agree to some kind of consumer price protection at the very least to keep AT&T prices at current levels or lower for a number of years and protect existing T-Mobile customer contracts. AT&T might also have to sell or spin off its TV and home internet operations. The issue of ridiculous text messaging fees might come up, but nothing will be done about them.

cookiecaper 5 days ago  replies      
If there has ever been an obvious need to prevent a merger it's this one. I really hope that common sense outweighs AT&T's ability to purchase bureaucrats this time.
thematt 5 days ago 3 replies      
T-Mobile would clean up on this deal if the US Government succeeds. Look at that breakup fee: $3 billion in cash and another $4 billion in non-monetary benefits.
daimyoyo 5 days ago 1 reply      
Good. To have all the GSM spectrum being controlled by one carrier would clearly have been anti-competitive.
ratsbane 5 days ago 0 replies      
This is great news. I'm a happy T-Mobile customer and I've had bad experiences with AT&T and its predecessor, BellSouth, in the past. I don't want to be forced into AT&T.

Question: What can we do to support the government's efforts? Write our congressmen? Write the DoJ?

grandalf 5 days ago 1 reply      
The Sprint/Nextel merger led to a steady increase in mobile phone plan prices. One can only imagine what an AT&T/T-Mobile merger would do.
cshenoy 5 days ago 0 replies      
The breakup fee may be what T-Mobile was looking for all along since Deutsche Telekom AG has said it's not willing to invest more in the venture. $3 billion isn't chump change and I'm sure they'll take full advantage of those agreements (e.g. spectrum rights, etc) should the deal fall through.
baltcode 5 days ago 2 replies      
From the article:
"Should regulators reject the transaction, AT&T would pay Deutsche Telekom $3 billion in cash. It would also provide T-Mobile with wireless spectrum in some regions and reduced charges for calls into AT&T's network, for a total package valued at as much as $7 billion, Deutsche Telekom said this month."

I don't get it, I thought this would happen if the deal went through. What is this $7 bn package in the event that the deal is blocked?

alexqgb 5 days ago 0 replies      
I wonder if this gloriously epic lawyer-fail had anything to do with the DOJ's call? http://bit.ly/oGKw2x [Leaked AT&T Letter Demolishes Case For T-Mobile Merger]
jonknee 5 days ago 2 replies      
When was the last time a merger of this size got blocked by the Feds?
Daniel_Newby 4 days ago 0 replies      
AT&T said yesterday that it was surprised by the government's lawsuit ...

So now we know where Saddam Hussein's publicity man went.

lancewiggs 4 days ago 0 replies      
The extraordinary high breakup fee is important here, and it's there despite the many reasons we and the DOJ itself are citing.
It seems that they breach everything - it;s a terrible deal for consumers.

So why are AT&T and their investment bankers pushing so hard for this deal? There is certainly an agency cost - the execs at AT&T want to do a deal and run a bigger company, and their lawyers and bankers want the deal to go ahead so they van get paid. However T-Mobile has to spend money on lawyers and bankers as well, and so some of that breakup fee will be used to pay them, as well as T-Mobile itself.

AT&T were banking on a compliant DOJ, and to be fair over the last decade there was very little push-back from any of the regulators. Since the GFC we would hope that they look over business dealing a bit more firmly, and this seems to be the case.

PBS have a very good article (video) on the topic. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-XquULysO1E

In Australia, NZ and the UK there is a Commerce Commission or Monopoles Regulator that can just say no to deals like this. It's sad that the DOJ has to do so via an expensive lawsuit. Your taxes at work.

AndrewWarner 5 days ago 0 replies      
This whole process is going to weaken T-Mobile even more.

Founders I've interviewed told me that the acquisition process plays head games with them and their people -- especially if it falls apart.

marshray 5 days ago 0 replies      
Yay, for once they do something for the consumer.

We'll see if they hold to it, or is just a sham only to be dropped after promises and payouts.

dupe123 5 days ago 0 replies      
Yes! I'm glad to see the government is taking a stance against it. Cell phone bills are expensive enough, I could only imagine what this merger would have done to them. I just pray they hold strong. This could be a really good thing for Tmob. Could seriously help level the playing field.
dethstarr 5 days ago 0 replies      
T-Mobile has horrible service and horrible data plans. I'm sick of them and wish they would get sucked into the black hole that is ATT. Where I still will have horrible service and bad data plans.

Need to switch to Verizon.

squozzer 5 days ago 0 replies      
A lot of good points, but one I didn't see is what will T-mobile do if the deal falls through?
$7bn IS chump change compared to what T and VZ spend annually on infrastructure.
Unless DT wants to step up their game, T-mob will muddle along as #3 or #4 until a merger with someone goes through.
And if the DOJ blocks T, they'll (probably) VZ, which leaves Sprint. Good luck with that...
beefman 5 days ago 3 replies      
I'm trying to understand why comments on Hacker News and Reddit are so uniformly against this merger. Is it because T-mobile has better customer service than AT&T (and most other carriers), and people are upset this will probably be lost?

When T-mobile came to the US, I was under the (perhaps incorrect) impression that they licensed their towers from AT&T (then Cingular). But my impression is that they, by now, have their own towers which will extend AT&T's network. Surely folks realize that mergers are badly needed in the wireless industry - that they are the solution to many of most onerous problems with wireless service today - and that artificially dividing infrastructure, as the FCC did, is tremendously wasteful.

kylecordes 5 days ago 0 replies      
Why bother? There will be a few minor agreements and/or spinoffs, then it will be approved.
AmericasNewsNow 5 days ago 3 replies      
Eh, theres always Verizon. AT&T cant get out of its own way anyway. If the govet wanted to block something, they should have stopped Google from buying youtube...
Vincentmb 5 days ago 5 replies      
I definitely understand the resistance to this merger, especially on Dan Hesse's part, but lets step back and think about what a "big two" would look like (Don't we live in a free-market?). A Verizon, AT&T dominated market is still going to drive innovation and maybe even more important an AT&T merger with T-Mobile will help to improve the quality of their service for their customers. As an AT&T customer myself, I'm all for it. One thing I know for sure; $7 Billion in failure is going to drive AT&T to do what it takes to make this happen ($3 billion breakup fee in cash an additional $3 to $4 billion in spectrum and services).
crag 5 days ago 1 reply      
Yay. About time the government did something for the consumer.

Thought someway somehow, ATT will get it's merger. They'll just spread more cash around.

Like TARP. Republican voted it down (for show). 4 days later they vote it up. At a cost of like $700 billion.

pessimist 5 days ago 4 replies      
I'm a happy T-mobile customer, and I hate AT&T, but IMHO the government has no business blocking this deal. Maybe the law allows it to block on nebulous competition grounds, but if it does then the law is an ass.

Business should be allowed to screw over customers as they see fit, customers can and must be allowed to walk away. And I can still walk away to join Sprint/Verizon.

Yes, neither of these companies may be offering me the best deal possible, but unless they are colluding, the government should not be involved.

First employee of startup? You are probably getting screwed itlater.com
369 points by Murkin  4 days ago   198 comments top 50
michaelochurch 4 days ago  replies      
First, I disagree that early employees of startups are "probably" getting screwed, but it definitely can happen, and often does to people who don't know their real value.

The part of this that resonates with me isn't the mathematics. The math isn't very relevant because there's a really large unknown: the eventual value of the company. One percent could be a lot of money, or it could be nothing. There's also the matter of dilution: is he protected against dilution from investor and employee stock grants over the next N years? I would guess not. His 1% could be 0.2% or less by the time an exit happens.

What is obvious is the emotional undercurrent to this very common anti-pattern. It sounds like he's not a real co-founder, he's "just a coder". They seem to be trying to sell him on a rotten deal because they think it's just such a privilege to work on their golden idea that they don't need to compensate properly. He's going to bust his ass to make the code work, for a salary half of his market rate, and in return he gets a tiny sliver of the company that gives him no real control, on a 4-year vesting cycle. I'm sorry, but these two guys are not (after 4 years, after he's done some real work) worth 79 times what he is just because they had the connections to raise money.

Prospective employees tend to view equity grants in a pre-employment context, when a 1% share seems extremely generous because the employee hasn't done anything yet. But that's what vesting's for! Vesting allows companies to compensate based on future contributions, with the knowledge that if the employee quits or is fired before the 4-year period is up, they won't have to pay for all 4 years of work.

At the least, if still thinks it's an "exciting" opportunity worth pursuing, he should recognize that he probably can't value the company better than the market, that we are in frothy times, and that the equity is worth more to an investor than to him (different risk profiles). So the value of 1% (post-money) of a $2.5 million company is $25,000 at most. That's $6,250 per year, far less than what he's giving up.

The first employee of a startup is not necessarily getting screwed. If that employee gets appropriate respect for his skill set, and reasonable compensation for the risks inherent in a startup, then it's a fair trade. A lot of people go into startups as early employees knowing the risks and upsides and that's fine.

What he should do if he actually wants to work on the startup: First, he needs to value his contribution to the company over the next 4 years appropriately and put a number on his "sweat equity". Let's say his market salary is $100,000 and he's being paid $50,000. Now add to his base salary: benefits (15% for health insurance, 401k matching), job-loss risk (25%, since typical severance offers are 1/4 tenure at current salary), career risk and opportunity cost (15%), and overage hours (30%, assuming a 50-55 hour work week). That's $185,000 per year. Take that, less the $50,000 he's making, and his sweat equity is $135,000 per year. Over 4 years, that's $540,000. The company's valuation is $2.5 million, "pre" to his contributions. He should be getting about 16% of the company, assuming he remains for 4 years. This number seems high, but if he's there after 4 years he will have been there almost as long as the founders, so it's about right.

First action: he needs to ask for 20% and settle for no less than 12%. If they say, "but you haven't done anything yet", he should point out that the equity grant is subject to vesting and that he won't get anything if he doesn't do any work.

Second action: he needs to demand the right to listen in on investor and client meetings. Otherwise, the other two founders will hold all the power in the organization because they, and they alone, hold that special knowledge of what investors want. If they think he's "just a coder", they'll show it by saying (in effect) that no, he's not "good enough" to be in the investor meetings.

The most likely outcome of his making these two demands is that they'll tell him to get lost. If that's the outcome, it's also the best outcome because it means the startup's a tarpit.

patio11 4 days ago 3 replies      
Imagine three twenty-something guys working on a startup that has more lines of code than dollars in the bank. They're working out of an apartment and spend most evenings eating ramen noodles from the same MSG-laden box. They work approximately equal hours (too many). They suffer approximately equal stress (more than they ever expected). They bear approximately equal responsibility for not tanking the company through poor performance. They each accept dramatic pay-cuts relative to easier, better jobs which they could sleepwalk their way into.

Next door, there are another three guys, eating ramen, etc etc.

Now, it seems to me like the three guys behind Door #1 are very similar to the three guys behind Door #2. However, in one case they're all co-founders, and in one case they are two co-founders and a first employee. Those are very, very different statuses for the third guy. The third co-founder gets mentioned in press hits about the company. The third co-founder can call himself a co-founder, a status of value in an industry (and society) which is sometimes obsessed with status. The third co-founder cannot get excised from the cap table without that being mentioned as a subplot in the eventual movie.

The first employee will not usually get mentioned. The first employee gets no social status of particular esteem. The first employee will not have a seat at the table -- literally or figuratively -- when the eventual disposition of the first employee's equity is decided. The first employee's equity stake is approximately 1/6 to 1/40th (or less!) of what the third co-founder's was. Well, theoretically. 0.5% is 1/40th of 20% in engineering math, not in investor math, because investors can change the laws of mathematics retroactively. 0.5% of millions of dollars is sometimes nothing at all. (This is one of the least obvious and most important things I have learned from HN.)

If you're good enough to be a first employee, you're probably epsilon away from being good enough to be a third co-founder. There may be good reasons to prefer being an employee... but think darn hard before you make that decision.

wheels 4 days ago  replies      
Another way of working things out is figuring out what the probable return on the stake being given is, e.g. something like, say:

• Employee given 1%

• Two additional funding rounds at 30% dillution each bring that to 0.49%

• In a $30 million exit the employee will get $147,000

• Probability of an exit at $30m of 10% (somewhat generous, but let's assume that the company has already raised an angel round and that's being used as a filter)

• So the adjusted value, including probability of failure, of those options is just $14,700

You can adjust the math to fit the startup at hand, but it's generally a reasonable formula for evaluating the value of options vs. salary. In general if you want to join a startup as a first employee you should either push for a larger slice, a near-industry-standard salary or do it for the experience (say, if you're interested in starting a startup of your own down the line).

pg 4 days ago 2 replies      
You can write an article claiming that anyone doing x is probably getting screwed, if you choose numbers that make it a bad deal. In my experience (which at this point is pretty extensive) the numbers he uses here are extreme outliers.

I'd expect a startup that was only able to raise money at $2m pre to be giving the first employee way more than 1%. How much more depends on how good he is (a factor that's not even considered in this article). Someone as good as the founders could reasonably expect 15%.

blader 4 days ago 0 replies      
A more accurate title for this would be:

"Taking a pay cut that is more than the market value of your equity stake? You are probably getting screwed."

OstiaAntica 4 days ago 1 reply      
The comparison math forgot the impact of taxes. The employee's $50K "investment" is pretax money, whereas the investors are putting in after-tax dollars. The marginal combined state, federal, and payroll tax rate on that second $50,000 in earnings is probably over 40%, so maybe the actual take-home salary given up for the deal is $29,000. Plus the equity earned is taxed at much lower capital gains rates (15%).
kabdib 4 days ago 1 reply      
Happened to me.

Years of effort . . . startup bought . . . eventually wound up with 17 shares of Oracle.

I'm not bitter. It was a fun ride, I learned a lot, and after an initial pay cut (when I first joined, and funding was tight) I got paid a decent salary.

pgroves 4 days ago 0 replies      
The founders are playing a dangerous game in this story. If key engineers don't have much reason to stick around other than it being exciting, they are likely to leave as soon as they get bored or tired. And yes, you can get bored while working 80 hour weeks.

I was once in this exact position. I was the first employee and over the next few years a bunch of senior managers came in and each got 5-10x the stock I'd gotten.

When the whole thing got old, I looked around and saw that I didn't have much upside potential (especially since there had been dilution), my salary was below market, and I left.

What was incredible looking back is that something similar happened with a truly key engineer... someone who was recruited out of a university because he had more or less built the text mining library the company was using by himself. A product line rested on his shoulders, so he had a ton of responsibility, but when things got rough he didn't have enough reason to stick around.

Added: The point is, there are good times and bad times in startups. In the good times you should look around and decide who you really need to stick around in the bad times and give out stock accordingly.

earlylinkedin 4 days ago 0 replies      
Some people are talking about the "expected value" of being an early employee, which is a very valuable view. I'd like to focus more on the best case to give a sense of what you can hope for if everything goes right.

I was fortunate enough to be an early engineer at LinkedIn after I graduated college. I was one of the first few engineers hired. I'm not an amazing company picker, and I barely knew what a startup was at the time -- I just got lucky because I knew one of the cofounders.

I received a decent option grant (especially for a kid just out of college!) and stayed at the company for two years. My options got diluted approximately 50% during the various funding rounds. Right now, LinkedIn is a top 20 website in the world, and there's a consensus that its current stock price is "very optimistic". My net worth on paper ends up being a couple of million. Needless to say, I'm thrilled. However, I also want to point out that there are only twenty "top 20 websites", and most of them aren't going to change anytime soon. So if you're one of the first few engineers at one of the 10-20 companies that's going to go from nothing to huge in the next 5-10 years, then you can view a few million -- perhaps 10-20 million -- as being the best that you can expect. And there are literally a few dozen, or maybe 100 people that will get this kind of success every decade. There is little skill involved here. It's all about getting lucky.

Furthermore, people forget that it takes time for value to build. It might take you 4 years to get most of your stock options and decide you want a more stable job or a change of scenery, but it might take another 10 years for your company to go public or get sold. You're giving up a big chunk of your 20s for the potential of a few million in your mid-late 30s -- but you could probably save close to that much anyway with good spending habits and better paying jobs.

So if you want to be an early employee at a start-up, it's an awesome experience. But you should do it because you love it, because you're passionate about the product, or because you cherish the learning opportunity. You shouldn't do it because you think it will make you a gazillionaire.

(just to be clear, I did love my time at LinkedIn -- I made some great friends, learned a ton, understood that startups are the kind of places that I like to work at, etc. I'm really happy I was there, and would be even if the company hadn't become a big success)

localhost3000 4 days ago 0 replies      
My first gig out of school was with a startup. First employee. They paid 20% below market wage and gave way less than 1% equity. I didnt know any better (young/naive). I got screwed, big time.
davidw 4 days ago 3 replies      
It'd be very interesting to look at real data from real companies and see how early employees made out. And naturally you'd want to include a wide spectrum of companies, both successful and unsuccessful. You could look at what rates people were actually paid, how much stock/options they got, how much it turned out to be worth and so on.
craigmc 4 days ago 1 reply      
Leaving aside that 1% is, in reality, too small a % for employee #1 of most startups, there are two factors that might make it worth it:

1. Route from employee #1 to v. senior position (with commensurately higher salary) is shorter* irrespective of whether the employee stays with the startup or moves on. (*Shorter than if the employee was working as a small cog elsewhere), and thus there is a fairly strong "jam tomorrow" argument that can be made.

2. Route from employee #1 to owning your own funded startup is again shorter. As employee #1, if you do a good job, then you'll be considered a de facto founder, and thus will have that to add to your pitch when it is your turn to try and raise $500k.

A third factor is that money is not everything. Working for a startup can be awesome, and might give you a whole range of professional and life experiences that you would not get when sucking down at your $100k pa teat.

roel_v 4 days ago 2 replies      
But comparing to the opportunity of somebody else is irrelevant. If the employee has 500k to invest, they're free to get the same terms as the investor. It's about scarcity: apparently the founders think that finding an investor with 500k is harder than finding the tech guy. Ergo, the investor gets paid more.
jacques_chester 4 days ago 4 replies      
Alternative title: "Don't remember how to multiply, add, subtract and divide? You are probably getting screwed".

There's so many things in life where party A gets away with soaking party B because B didn't perform some simple arithmetic.

goldmab 4 days ago 1 reply      
There's a mistake in the math: one year of a salary cut is given as the amount invested. Why one year?
rmorrison 4 days ago 1 reply      
This post is missing the most valuable part of working at a startup: the experience.

Sure, you can go work at ________ (big company paying fresh developers $120k+), but you're going to be pigeonholed into working on a small aspect of the product/company.

If you join a promising small startup, you're going to learn about all aspects of business, startups, selling, marketing, fundraising, etc. These skills will be extremely helpful to you throughout the rest of your career, especially if you plan to start your own company someday.

ayanb 4 days ago 1 reply      
Without having a bias towards the investor community, I think this comparison is only done from a money standpoint. Its also important to note what other value investor money and involvement brings to the organisation.

Investors bring contacts from their immediate and extended network, sometimes a strong brand (think SV Angel/ YC), mentorship, experts in the given field, and media attention.

Joakal 4 days ago 1 reply      
I didn't know the forgone loss of salary for equity could be compared with investment that easily. That's brilliant!
HaloZero 4 days ago 0 replies      
Just wanted to point out (read a bit) you get equity at big companies too? That's not a not negligible amount of cash. So the guy isn't just losing $50K in salary, but the equity that the other company (bigger company) would be giving him. Not sure what the equity grants at bigger companies end up being though.
cHalgan 4 days ago 0 replies      
I'm not sure, but if you want to build a world class team you need to pay more than market rate + excellent team/work environment + more responsibility + more impact on world + give equity. There is no free lunch. Really.

Did Facebook become successfully because they went cheap with hiring VP of engineering early in their game? (answer not: they recruited the top)

Yes, you can get lucky and build a successful company by hiring people which are fresh from college for less than market and dream about being rich.

The point is the following: DONT HIRE BAD DEVELOPERS.

Unfortunately, good developers are good in math and they were around so they will not go with salary cut + questionable equity stake. Yes you can get lucky but there are so many other unknowns when you run a business and you should limit unknowns to the minimum.

dlikhten 4 days ago 1 reply      
Differences between Co-Founter, Investor, First Coder:

- Starts the compamy, has the idea/initial impl
- Takes risk, may work for a while with zero salary, investing personal time for nothing.
- May wind up getting ZERO (total) for the investment.
- Company does not get paid, co-found does not get paid.
- Big potential payout
- Health benefits? Post funding, or from other job while building startup.

- Puts money into company.
- May lose everything, that money is just going to the founders for some food and servers or something of that nature.
- Payout depends on investment size. However lets say compared to co-founder, small payout.
- Minimal invested personal effort compared to co-founder.
- Invested time assisting the company and connecting the company to personal contacts to help it grow.
- Provides advice when needed (hopefully)

First Coder:
- Gets paid less than average coder
- Gets potential payout less than investor
- Gets paid or laid off. There is no in-between. May agree to not get paid this month and instead get paid later in hopes of assisting the business during a tough month.
- Has to be pretty close to the business since it's so volatile, so will see the lay-off coming.
- Probably coming in with benefits provided to employee.

As you can see risks/benefits are quite different for everyone. So its not just "you are getting screwed".

I think that getting a very small % is actually practical depending on how far along the company is. The question is about how much risk is being taken, and how much is being contributed.
A smart co-founder will see the contribution of a very valuable employee and offer more % to that employee especially if they are so critical to the company. Its not about employee #1 its about the fact that during the early phases, each individual person has the ability to make big things for the company, and they should be rewarded for those big things. Keeping life static is quite boring and no incentive. Yet having incentives for employees transforming the business early on is quite good.

Hisoka 4 days ago 0 replies      
I think it depends on how much work was actually done before you joined. If the 2 co-founders already completed the main app/product, and you joined, 1% actually sounds fair. If you're gonna be the one creating almost the entire product from scratch, 1% is pitiful.
rmrm 4 days ago 0 replies      
my history with startup options:

1st company: acquired
2nd: ipo
3rd: bankrupt
4th: acquired

Net value of all option shares : 0

Meaning, in toto, my strike price x shares is almost exactly what they ended up being worth. The net present value of an option is the strike price. Even the private options market is pretty efficient. Whereas a lottery ticket might have a net present value of only 60%, so these are pretty good lottery tickets. But that is essentially all they are.

grimen 4 days ago 0 replies      
Depends on if the startup got production material and deals. Letting people in more than a very small equity and salary is just plain stupid if you worked hard for a year to get anywhere. Hardest thing is not to compe up with an idea, hardest things are: start, execute, ship, and have models to get paid. When these are almost done, new founders are not needed - they should have joined earlier.

I've lately met people tryng to get onto the boat as if all we worked for was air. If I take someone more in for more than a good salary he/she better be a unshaped diamond.

Of course, the article mentions 50% of normal salary for 1% - that is just so stupid. The people who wants to signed up on that cannot be unshaped diamonds.

spinlock 4 days ago 0 replies      
Cash is king. You can demand more equity and priority in the debt stack ordering when you write checks. Life's not fair but whining over how you're getting screwed won't help you realize the opportunities that are available to you.
par 4 days ago 0 replies      
If you give employee #1 only 1% of your startup, then there is something wrong with you, or employee #1 is more of an intern and not a key hire.
vineet 4 days ago 1 reply      
Having been employee one and started 2 companies - I strongly disagree.

It is hard to find employees/co-founders that (a) have the right skills, (b) the right interests, (c) the right industry knowledge/contacts, and (d) are in the same place in their life to make the same amount of commitments.

And even when you do you find such people, it is hard to give them 10% equity in the beginning and then tell them that they are under-performing, and only deserves 2.5% equity.

Now, I agree, that the definition of under-performing is very different for a startup compared to a more established company. I have also found people are willing to accept when they are under-performing, but contracts and equity that is given is harder to change.

However, I would love to have the right cofounder, and even share the equivalent equity with him if he can take over half my burden.

Perhaps the answer is to find people with a very good fit, start them with low equity (~1%), and tell them how they can get more equity. And then doubling equity multiple times as they are able to rise to a founder level responsibility.

brudgers 4 days ago 0 replies      
If I were valuing the deal, I would give primary consideration to the likelihood that the business is underfunded based upon their inability to provide a competitive salary after receiving funding. I would also consider the crap nature of the equity offer as evidence that their source of funding does not bring a wealth of experience to the table...no smart tech investor is going to tolerate the risk associated with screwing over critical hires.
nivertech 4 days ago 1 reply      
This guy can work for a year and invest his money on the same terms as angel investors.
The only technical problem how to do it tax free, b/c you obviously owe income tax and in some countries like Israel also VAT.

There are some solutions, but they are not trivial. The employee actually buys a convertible debt in the company on the similar terms as angel investor and can cash out on later rounds.

nwatson 4 days ago 0 replies      
One more factor to consider, though: angel or Series A preferred shares often cost much more per share than the employee's per-share Common strike price. The option-exercising employee has a lower outlay and thus less risk. Of course, in all but the most favorable exits the reward per share will also be smaller.
kelnos 3 days ago 0 replies      
Related question: when we're talking "equity" here for early employees, are we talking stock or options? At my last startup, all employees (even #1) were given options, not stock outright.
rudiger 4 days ago 0 replies      
This is just a special case of "Working on a startup? You are probably getting screwed." The first employee doesn't have it too much worse than the founders, the second employee, or the third.
JoeAltmaier 4 days ago 0 replies      
Works the same way for contractors. Take a lower rate, delay payment, accept warrants instead of grants...its all investment, and should be on the same terms as any other early investor.
ailon 4 days ago 0 replies      
The question is: would someone working on 100k salary invest real 50k into a startup? And the answer is 99.9% no. They'll just spend the 50k on fancier food and other crap.
slowpoison 4 days ago 0 replies      
He forgot to factor the risk into the equation here. Investors have risk. If the company goes down they lose $500K. How much do you lose $50K?

1% may or may not be less. We definitely need deeper analysis here.

robjohnson 4 days ago 0 replies      
Not entirely an accurate depiction of equity calculations, but it is nice to see as many people as possible doing these back-of-the-napkin sketches to educate. Mark Suster has some great posts about equity math.
caffeine5150 3 days ago 0 replies      
I was a co-founder of a startup (non-tech) that raised $60+ million over 10 years and in my experience, a dollar of sweat equity, particularly from a person without some extraordinary personal value-add, is rarely as valuable as a dollar of paid in capital, all things being equal.
sarcasmatron 4 days ago 0 replies      
Interesting responses: I've never worked with startups for the payout, but for the experience of working with startups.

As to stock, I prefer shares to options from both sides of the transaction.

Finally, FASB 123 doesn't cover contractors or other non-employees - worth keeping in mind.

DodgyEggplant 4 days ago 0 replies      
Then open your own startup, and get 99% of the shares for 0% of your previous salary
sl_ 4 days ago 1 reply      
toblender 4 days ago 0 replies      
At least he got offered equity. The first one I joined didn't even have that.
abalone 3 days ago 0 replies      
It's a market. If you think you can get >1% for "saving the company" with your hax0r skilz, go right ahead and try to negotiate that.
dfragnito 4 days ago 0 replies      
There is risk associated with hiring an employee. There is no risk associated with a cash investment, There is investment risk, the risk associated with making the wrong investment like hiring the wrong employee.

The investor with 50k in hand now vs the 100K per year employee willing to work for 50k. The Investor wins. With the 50K the start up can hire the 100k per year employee for 50k. If thing do not work out you can fire them and hire another one.

The money is less risky giving it a higher value, plus its all upfront which has already been discussed.

marcin 4 days ago 0 replies      
Nice polarising title, but:
1. You're not getting screwed, you are making a choice, which is driven by market factors like your alternatives, expected utility from the job etc.
2. The numbers given are quite extreme - if the guy is really worth 100k I find it hard to believe that he would be offered 50k and only 1%. Also his option stake could raise with more responsibility given, this is just the initial negotiation point as I see it.
3. It only makes sense in the Valley or US.
amorphid 4 days ago 0 replies      
Youre not getting screwed if you walk into the job with your eyes wide open.
ailon 4 days ago 0 replies      
If you are going to work as an employee in a startup primarily for the money, you are doing it wrong already.
realschool 4 days ago 0 replies      
At a start-up I'm making a good rate for my first job.
Stravob 4 days ago 1 reply      
you got a mistake with your math 500K of 2 million is 25%
rglover 4 days ago 2 replies      
Honestly, going in as the first employee of a startup shouldn't be a decision made by someone just looking for compensation. Rather, a first employee should be someone who is so hooked on the idea of that startup, they focus on the ability to build a company from the ground up. It's a risk, but if all else fails, they can find a job working for an established business that can offer those numbers. Joining a startup early on should be based on beliefs and passion for the company, not a paycheck.
earbitscom 4 days ago 3 replies      
No offense, but this is horseshit and the math is embarrassing.

The number of people ready to invest $500k, for whom this is "a small part of his capital," is about 1/1000th of the number of people who will enjoy working and learning in a small, exciting company, and having more input into the product, regardless of total potential for financial gain. So, the value of $500k in cash from an accredited investor is already worth more than the time investment of the average employee, for whom there are replacements lining up. [Edit] This is to say nothing of the additional value that an investor adds.

Even if that were not the case, and this were strictly a math exercise, the investor is putting in $500k NOW. You're putting in $50k spread out over the next 365 days, during which a solid company's valuation may go up by ten fold. Right now, your $50k is worth 1% of the company. But you're not putting in $50k NOW. You're putting in $0 NOW. You're putting in $136 tomorrow, and $136 the next day. Good luck making an early stage investment in an exciting startup for $136. I have never seen early stage stock available on lay away.

Ask the secretaries at Microsoft or Google if they got ripped off. This is a joke.

You can't google 9999999..99999999999999999999999 google.com
351 points by reg29  4 days ago   80 comments top 23
waterhouse 4 days ago 5 replies      
On a faintly related note, I once was calculating partitions, using a relatively inefficient method (memoization: if f(n,k) is the number of distinct ways to express n as the unordered sum of integers no greater than k, then f(n,k) = f(n-k,k) + f(n,k-1)). My computer started to feel the strain in the thousands (this algorithm is O(n^2) in space and time). I then googled for the partition of, say, 1034, which is:


I figured that chances are that no website will have that integer on there by accident. Lo and behold, I found, among other results, a text file containing the partitions up to 10,000, presumably done with a more efficient algorithm (likely Euler's ridiculous pentagonal-number recurrence formula, which, memoized, is roughly O(n^1.5) in time and O(n) in space): http://oeis.org/A000041/b000041.txt

buro9 4 days ago 3 replies      
The double dot indicates that this is a ranged query.

11..22 would be to search for all integers between 11 and 22.

The effect is that the search is too broad. The problem is more likely to be that the range search is a mapreduce that performs a search for each item in the range.

You can imagine why that's a bad idea, and some aggressive timeouts are probably what stop it from going too far.

Plus the numbers in the range of the OP search are likely to fall in the ranges of sensitive numbers, credit cards being the most sensitive... which are likely to be explicitly blocked.

user24 4 days ago 0 replies      
The reason for this is that you can google ranges of numbers, and people a couple of years ago were using this feature to find credit card numbers that were posted online, eg searching for 4000000000000000..4999999999999999

It was around the time that johnny's google hacking page became popular, iirc. (http://www.hackersforcharity.org/ghdb/)

ck2 4 days ago 0 replies      
You also cannot google some stuff commonly found in phpBB because of so many hacked sites out there.

Also remember how you used to be able to search for anything up to the 1000th item (10 pages of 100 results). Not anymore for a long time now. Google sucks it all in but won't share and play nice with others.

Why not allow such searches unless a bot is detected (too many pages too quickly, etc.)

martinkallstrom 4 days ago 4 replies      
I think this question is cool to think about and try to answer: What is the lowest integer that doesn't have any hits on google? Is there any reasoning that can help estimating the approximate magnitude it should be?
skeptical 4 days ago 0 replies      
Probably that string was used as a dork together with some more text to find vulnerabilities on web applications or so.
So it was reported as a honey

This does look like a string that could very much be generated by some poorly coded webbapp. An incorrect usage of a floating point number can easily generate such output. If it occurs on a critical part of an application it could very well been used as a dork. Just an hypothesis though.

Back in 2005 google tricks were at their peak. Many hackers experimented with search phrases in order to retrieve interesting/valuable/uncommon/dangerous?/sensitive info from the web. "index of/ .mp3" "apache server at port" being the absolute classic.

More and more people started to jump in the bandwagon, webmasters gradually became more aware of this, and google too. The natural reaction was google honeypot.


But it wasn't too long until google started to remove such features. These days one can hardly search for symbols on google. They the old tricks, most of them will not work, google simply ignores the details and returns a list of results based on the actual words contained in the query. It's becoming a QA machine. That's one of the reasons I switched to duckduckgo.

For a proper reading on the subject check ou the vast website of the, now deceased, great hacker Fravia:

jergosh 4 days ago 0 replies      
Guess they don't want you to search for credit card numbers
pointyhat 4 days ago 0 replies      
I get this:

Our systems have detected unusual traffic from your computer network. Please try your request again later.

david927 4 days ago 0 replies      
"With all due respect John, I am the head of IT and I have it on good authority that if you type 'Google' into Google, you can break the Internet." -- The IT Crowd
tsycho 4 days ago 3 replies      
Reading the comments here gave me an idea....google your own credit card numbers to check if its already in some scammer's index. While no results might not necessarily mean you are safe, a positive match is a clear red flag.
arrowgunz 4 days ago 3 replies      
Can someone please explain me why that happens? Google says - "Our systems have detected unusual traffic from your computer network. Please try your request again later."
mahrain 4 days ago 0 replies      
Funny how Duckduckgo lists all sites linking to this story.
program 4 days ago 2 replies      

111111..111111 // minimum case

or any other integer combination. 6 digits is the minimum amount that spawn the bizarre error.

37prime 4 days ago 0 replies      
Take out a few 9's out and Google still returned an error:
n0fair 4 days ago 1 reply      
Our systems have detected unusual traffic from your computer network. Please try your request again later. Why did this happen?
tete 4 days ago 1 reply      
I see why it doesn't work, but why doesn't it work with quotes either?
mikkohypponen 4 days ago 0 replies      
However, you can still set Google Alerts for a search like that.
drungli 3 days ago 0 replies      
I tried also this:
same results!
digamber_kamat 4 days ago 0 replies      
Change the last 9 to 8 and see what happens ?
fletchowns 4 days ago 1 reply      
Bing to the rescue: http://www.bing.com/search?q=9999999..9999999999999999999999...

Pretty similar URL format eh?

Facebook doesn't like privacy countermeasures jwz.org
337 points by xentronium  2 days ago   105 comments top 24
rickmb 2 days ago 3 replies      
Facebook better wake up and realize that especially thanks to companies like them and their failure to self-regulate and respect privacy values outside the US, using Like-buttons for tracking is likely to become illegal in the EU and many other places in the next five years.

Technically, one could argue that they already violate existing laws, but incidents like these will make absolutely sure that these practices will be explicitly outlawed very soon.

It keeps surprising me how companies like Facebook and Google seem to be oblivious to the way privacy is perceived elsewhere, and are actively provoking stricter legislation than would be the case if they showed some respect. There is absolutely no question about these tracking practices being perceived as ethically unacceptable in many countries, so why provoke both negative publicity and legislation that is likely to handicap less intrusive solutions as well?

cletus 2 days ago 8 replies      
This is a non-story for the reasons stated but a story for other reasons.

It's standard that widget publishers require to use their widget "as is". That's basically what Facebook is saying. Not only do you not know what any custom modifications will necessarily do but it's a completely valid argument that you want a consistent user experience with your widget.

As for user tracking, this is basically an inevitable byproduct of Facebook hosting the widget, a situation I'm sure they're not unhappy about, but this really isn't a big deal in the context of how the Web works.

The story here (IMHO) is trust. Most pages have a Google Analytics tracking script on them. Do you trust Google? I do (disclaimer: I work for Google). Protecting user data and privacy are key priorities here. It's why Google+ has relatively simple privacy controls and allows you to export your data at any time.

Do you trust Facebook? I don't. Then again, there aren't many companies I do trust. But Facebook's track record seems to be to befuddle the user and trick or opt them into sharing things wider than they understand or want.

yuvadam 2 days ago 4 replies      
Friendly reminder, blocking all and any of Facebook's pre-click tracking measures can be implemented easily in AdBlock Plus (or any equivalent ad blocker) with the following rules:


slowpoke 2 days ago 0 replies      

  If it hadn't occurred to you yet that Facebook cares far
more about the "Like" buttons that you don't click than
about the ones that you do -- there you go.

I've been telling this to people since ages. These stupid Like buttons are an infestation, and exactly the reason why I care so much about Facebook's privacy policies despite not being registered on it - it's just not as simple as "not having an account". This goes for the other networks, too, by the way.

Besides, this solution with the two clicks is very clever, and privacy friendly. In addition, it speeds up page loading. It speaks for itself that the only measure Facebook has is trying to sue with a very broadly formulated policy, which I doubt applies in this case anyways:

  if such use could confuse users into thinking that the
reference is to Facebook features or functionality.

Well duh, it is a Facebook feature/functionality.

kragen 2 days ago 0 replies      
The most important update, from Aristotle: "Tina Kulow of Facebook Germany has spoken again. In a tweet, she wrote: “To clarify: a 2-click button is not ideal " but not a problem. Only a Like button that merely visually pretends to be one is not OK. That's all.” Since heise online changed the design of the button for the first click that activates the Like function, there should now be no obstacles on Facebook's part to further use of the 2-click button by heise online and other websites."
jeza 2 days ago 1 reply      
Apparently it's more of a copyright issue than the 2-click process. They don't like their logo being used on a locally hosted image. So heise.de made the button more generic and it's all good now.
bryogenic 2 days ago 0 replies      
A simple solution to this would be to not use facebook icons for your first click image. So maybe a simple 'social share' icon that brings up all the sharing options and at the same time loads the traditional facebook like button.
Xuzz 2 days ago 1 reply      
Before we spend too much time attacking Facebook over this, let's try and think of possible reasons why this might be not an "evil" move. No need to go out of our way to conclude "omg they're evil stealing our privacy".

Firstly, what if they just don't want to confuse users? I see people confused all the time of when you need to click and when you need to double-click, every time I see someone using the computer " I'm sure I do this myself, too. What does allowing someone to introduce uncertainty as to what's required here do, especially when their click-through buttons look just like Facebook's normal ones on other sites? I'd say it'd just confuse people. I don't have an issue with Facebook doing that, I'd actually rather have them enforce, this, so you know what is going on when you see a standard Like button.

(As a few other comments have noted, just replacing the button with a custom-styled one would solve this issue. It'd also solve user confusion, since it no longer appears to be Facebook requiring a double click.)

So, maybe they're not just after destroying privacy, after all? Maybe?

(I don't work for Facebook, or even know anyone who does. I just like to try and see both sides of something like this.)

maeon3 2 days ago 3 replies      
I forgot how when I click a like button on a foreign page, face book is keeping data about what pages I am visiting and (who,what,when,where,how) and is selling that click data about me to the highest bidder (and I cant turn it off) to advertisers or worse government agencies doing warrent-less surveillance.

I'm never clicking a facebook like button again until I can turn off user website tracking.

blahedo 2 days ago 2 replies      
I'm glad this came up to make me think about it more; I'd already gotten in the habit of logging out of FB except when actively viewing the feed, for precisely this reason---I didn't want FB tracking me across browsing other sites. (The FB-hosted comment systems were actually the proximate worry, as well as the Like button.)

But that was my half-thought-through answer. Of course they're perfectly able to track me even without being logged in.[0] So the real answer is I need to be sure I'm not loading cross-site img and iframes... My Omniweb install I'd already configured to do that, but setting up proper privacy countermeasures on my Firefox install just jumped way up the priority list.

[0] http://panopticlick.eff.org/

yason 2 days ago 0 replies      
What are web browsers doing by sharing this accidental data between 3rd party sites anyway?

The default setting ought to be that connections to 3rd party sites are done in incognito mode. This would disallow tracking by looking up the referer and sites like Facebook couldn't also tell who's login cookies the browser is storing. You could then whitelist connections on a per-site basis.

hayeah 2 days ago 0 replies      
I think the 2-clicks "like" button is super smart. I am going to implement it as a Chrome extension, what do you guys think? I've created a repo on github:


rudiger 2 days ago 2 replies      
Is there an open-source implementation of this two-click system for Facebook's Like button (and others like Google's +1 and Twitter's tweet button)?
jaekwon 1 day ago 1 reply      
It's the visitor's choice to visit a webpage.
It's the developer's choice to choose widgets.
Do you really think it's fair to say,
"I want to use your widget, FB, which happens through your servers, and I want to use them my way without your consent."
The default option (not choosing the widget) is always fair.

My point is that to make such widgets illegal, widgets that service three consenting parties, is completely retarded.

thedjpetersen 2 days ago 2 replies      
I was surprised to find out that Facebook tracks not only what 'like' buttons you have been clicking but also where you have been browsing. Is there a privacy browser extension?
doki_pen 2 days ago 0 replies      
Is this really just a facebook problem? Isn't it a problem for any client side service that is used across the web? Analytics packages, ad software, value add stuff like disqus, etc.
eloisius 2 days ago 0 replies      
Not sure how great it works because I only sought it out after reading this, but here's Facebook Disconnect for Chrome. https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/ejpepffjfmamnambag...
thelovelyfish 2 days ago 0 replies      
Facebook, google, all these other giant technology firms... They will be looked back on in the future as ruthless opportunists doing their best to take advantage of the public with technology before anyone can figure out what they're doing and stop them.

The world is not some cute friendly little place. It is equally as barbarous today as it was in the dark ages. The TVs have convinced everyone otherwise it seems. Evil people are using machines to take over the world.


Sigi 2 days ago 0 replies      
A possibly related note: I use two browsers to browse the web in an attempt to protect my privacy (as futile as it seems to be); one is logged in to google, and the other is not.

When using the browser that is logged in, I get 15 "+1"s for google like-like button. however, when using the other browser that's not logged in, I get 0 "+1"s.

Can anyone explain?

jcfrei 2 days ago 1 reply      
what about the like buttons on techcrunch? they only load if you hover over them as well.
baby 2 days ago 0 replies      
I was doing it on my website, I never had any problems with facebook.

Actually, I had other problems with them, and what they did is just plainly banned my application and blocked my website from using facebook API.

RexRollman 2 days ago 0 replies      
Facebook is detestable. Just like its founder.
pacemkr 2 days ago 0 replies      
Don't use the Like button.

There, problem solved.

If your startup isn't social and free, it isn't hip. If you don't have a Facebook page and seven shades of "Like" buttons, you are destroying your business. Just stop.

Stop putting that social media flare (crap) on your website. Your users don't care, because sharing a link is not an unsolved problem.

calbear81 2 days ago 2 replies      
I love the privacy "oh no they're selling our data!" paranoia that people still have without considering WHY and what legitimate reasons Facebook has for sending back data when a Like button is implemented.

First, they are a SOCIAL network, this data helps them figure out the engagement level with different brands that participate on the Facebook social platform. Second, in this case, the use of 2-click solution creates a disconnect with the expected behavior of the Facebook Like widget which means users going across different sites will not know whether they need to make one or two clicks to enable a "Like". Third, when you don't use the Facebook Like widget, you don't get any insight into your connections with your social graph unless you click on the Like button which defeats the purpose of being able to see that "4 of your friends like this".

There are real privacy concerns that we should consider but I'm tired of reading EU Privacy office statements that show a lack of understanding of how the web works and without regard to the impact to the monetization ecosystem which is the lifeblood of many web publishers. What bothers me more is that there's a lack of consideration that there are legitimate reasons a certain level of data is collected in order to make the web more social.

The Million Dollar Question sebastianmarshall.com
332 points by jirinovotny  5 days ago   69 comments top 27
DanielBMarkham 5 days ago 3 replies      
I really liked this post. Sebastian continues to develop his conversational style. Very nice.

Asshole consultant inside of me kept nodding early on: "You just don't get it, Sebastian! Charge more!"

You see, there's a very sad truth consultants learn early on: it doesn't matter how much you know that can help somebody. All that matters is how much influence you can have.

The reason some consultants charge ten times what others do for the same information? It's not that they are ten times as smart; it's that they don't want to waste their life giving great advice to people who aren't going to value it. If you walk in the door at 10K per day, bet your bottom dollar people are going to listen to you. And that means you can help. Walk in the same door for free, just to help out a friend? Your advice, by definition, is worthless. You'd be lucky getting them to accept just a tiny piece of advice.

But then I got to the key of the piece: when you do finally "get it", it changes your relationship with "normal" folks.

I think Sebastian's being a bit over-dramatic here, but I firmly agree. There is something very crazy about making money from thin air. Especially how it's done today, with some keystrokes and a bunch of virtual magic. At least in the old days if you met a millionaire he could take you down to his factory or something. Maybe told you about all the hard work he's done.

Nowadays the same type of guy made much more money that than that and there's not even an office. For most people, it just doesn't compute. In fact, I'd go so far as to say that to most people, there's something just wrong about making money the way it's made today on the net. Something shady. If you're lucky you get the "odd weirdo" label. If you're unlucky you attract attention from people you would rather not.

Because of that, I think I'm giving up on the $40Mil dream. I'm happy just to make enough to free up my time to work on things I love doing. I'll let the other guys be the really extreme weirdos. :)

Short side story: I sold a piece of land a year or so ago. It wasn't much, but it was in the tens of thousands of dollars. The guy who bought it paid cash. He was a contractor. Over the past decade he had been saving here and there, scrimping up enough in cash to make his dream come true. He kept it all in hundred-dollar bills in a large ziplock bag. It wouldn't have been my choice but it worked for him.

As he paid me, he told me he had gotten stopped for a bad taillight by the police a few months back. Once they saw his money that he had been saving, he had a hell of a time convincing them he wasn't a drug dealer. While I understand that carrying large amounts of cash is suspicious, to hear him tell it the police went far beyond suspicious and started thinking there was definitely something wrong going on. You see, to those small-town cops, you just don't carry that amount of money around. Somebody who looked like that should not have the amount of money like this. Just having the money was an indication of something really bad, even if it could all be explained.

He almost lost all of it.

You can only stand out so much -- the forces of society will gently (or not so gently) pull you back into line. You either have to conform or move to some place where the definition of "normal" is different.

ryanwaggoner 5 days ago 4 replies      
This is a fantastic post, very thought-provoking. But also very sad to me. I disagree with the underlying premise that success and happiness are somehow negatively correlated. There's this idea in the post that if you want to be uber-successful, you can't have a "normal" life.

I know very successful people who are miserable, stressed-out workaholics. And I know very successful people who could have been one of the people strolling around Sebastian when he was writing this post. I know people who run startups from their home office and take their kids to school in the morning. Hell, look at Sebastian's own situation: he apparently has enough time to sit and pontificate for a couple hours on a train platform in Japan, in the middle of the day. He can't be working THAT hard :) Maybe what he's trying to say is that you can't have the idyllic suburban family life if you want to float around the world living off of random consulting gigs? But there are probably quite a few very successful people here on HN that live relatively idyllic family lives in cities and suburbs all over the world.

I think the idea of feeling isolated for being very ambitious is true, but I would caution Sebastian and others against the idea that you have to sacrifice your connection to a community, your face-to-face relationships, your health, and your overall happiness on the alter of amassing $40m for an amorphous purpose like being able to build a shrine with 5% of your wealth or less. You certainly can sacrifice all those things, but most people will never amass $40m no matter what they sacrifice. Better to find something (and someone) that you love, work hard at it, and enjoy life. Yes, you should take chances, yes you should push yourself and be ambitious. But this is the only life you get; don't squander it living a life you don't enjoy because you're hoping for the big payoff down the road. It probably won't come.

davidw 5 days ago 0 replies      
I'm not sure I buy it. I've met plenty of wealthy people who were happy to come home to a pretty normal family because their jobs are a constant source of novelty, stress and challenges. If one feels the need to stick out as part of one's identity, great, but it's just one way of living. I kind of like sticking out as a foreigner over here in Italy sometimes; it has its positive aspects. I certainly chose a road less traveled, but whatever, to each his own. For other things I'm happy to be pretty ordinary: I have a wife and two fantastic children and live in what passes for burbs over here.

Also, being a bit of a skeptic and contrarian, perhaps some of these people had other good reasons to say no to his plans. Without knowing their point of view, more about his proposals, and other particulars, maybe their inaction was sensible.

rdouble 5 days ago 3 replies      
Almost every millionaire I know is married with kids and living in the suburbs. Unless you win the lottery or are a professional skateboarder, becoming rich is more like boring suburban reality than being an international flaneur. (Interestingly, the rich pro skaters I know all live in the suburbs with their kids, too)

As someone who has also floated around a lot, even through Japan, it's an interesting lifestyle but sort of the opposite of how to get rich.

astrofinch 5 days ago 1 reply      
There are lots of bugs in peoples' brains that prevent them from doing things that seem like good ideas, and I don't think the fear of becoming illegible (http://www.ribbonfarm.com/2011/07/31/on-being-an-illegible-p...) is anywhere near the most important one.

My vote for the most important bug is as follows.

It looks as though human brains were architected to think in two modes: "near" mode and "far" mode. The reason for this is that early human tribes had important rules that directly impacted survival and reproduction (for example, "don't take more than your share of the food", "don't sleep with another man's wife"). It was critical for us to tell others that we were going to uphold these rules or we would get kicked out of the tribe. At the same, time our genetic fitness would increase massively if we could find a way to covertly break those rules while still upholding them verbally (more food and more descendents for successful rule breakers).

The upshot of this is that even if something looks good when processed using far mode it's not necessarily easy to translate it into near mode where it actually gets done.

In my view, this is an explanatory factor for procrastination as well. For example, the popular Google Chrome extension Chrome Nanny (https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/gpdgmmdbbbchchonpf...) requires the user to enter 64 random alphanumeric characters before visiting a distracting site--which moves the idea of visiting this site from near mode (where it might actually happen) to far mode (where it won't).

For more on near and far modes you can read http://www.overcomingbias.com/2010/06/near-far-summary.html. Note that novel tasks and desirable risky acts are both associated with far mode.

Jun8 5 days ago 4 replies      
"Why won't you?" Indeed. I created this HN user almost two years ago, before I applied to YC. In these two years I did pretty much nothing towards my goal, except reading HN, nodding in agreement over good posts, and bookmarking stuff on Delicious, adding to the hundreds I already have. What stops me? Fear? No, I just know I can be successful with my idea. Laziness? Maybe, but I've worked 18 hr days on projects I liked. So what? I don't know.

Meanwhile I will upvote this article and bookmark it.

ender7 5 days ago 0 replies      
Man, what a memorable post.

I like to think about his main point of "people won't understand you" a little differently. Humans were originally pack animals, and it shows. You are nothing without your pack, but together the pack is strong. Modern life isn't nearly so simplistic, but we still have our packs, albeit a little more nuanced. The place we work. The neighborhood we live in. Our family. Our friends (who are probably drawn from work, neighborhood, and family).

Doing what Sebastian does seems to be a lonely path. You get to be the alpha, but only of a pack of one. I get this feeling when seeing a lot of executives interviewed - men and women who are supposedly at the helm of enormous packs, but in practice seem a lot more alone than one might imagine.

sgentle 4 days ago 0 replies      
I really enjoyed this article. I'm not actually convinced that the answer is a fear of not being understood by others, but it's very close or the writing wouldn't resonate the way it does. The problem is that I know lots of people who couldn't give the slightest damn about fitting in, or who are already occupied in a field far enough from societal norms that their job description takes a whiteboard and a venn diagram on a good day.

I wish I could remember who said this; I think it was M. Scott Peck, but I can't find the reference: we are attached to our own mental model of ourselves. So attached that we will fight to maintain that model even if it's useless or actively harmful.

An example: have you ever noticed that if someone's depressed, complimenting them doesn't work? Have you noticed that you yourself feel awkward when others compliment you? That might seem obvious, but only because you've absorbed it through repeated exposure. Think about it: why in the world would someone saying good things about you feel uncomfortable? Shouldn't it be basically the best thing you can get?

The answer is that when you're thinking "I'm average looking at best" and someone says "you're beautiful!" it's like someone just tried to rip your left brain from your right. How can you possibly reconcile these two things? You have to either destroy your own sense of self or reject the person's compliment.

I suspect that in this case what looks like fear that the world will misunderstand you is actually fear that you misunderstand yourself. Jumping head-first into a crazy idea isn't just changing what you do; it's changing who you are, and that's goddamn terrifying.

ForrestN 5 days ago 0 replies      
Sebastian identifies a key problem that underlies a lot of how society works: lots of people effectively have motives to avoid things they want. But I'm not sure he's right about his reading of why the problem exists. As nice as it is to think of this as some kind of trade-off, I'm not sure that most people gain any normalcy or understanding, at least not in any positive way.

Think about his friend, the one who's big goal is financial independence. It's his primary first-order objective, and he's being shown a plan to pursue it. He's not afraid to pursue it because he thinks it's going to cause him to be less understood (at least one of his friends, Sebastian, will probably relate to him more). He just flinches at the thought of really going after what he wants.

The million dollar question is the right one: why do people get anxious and self-sabotage when a path to success is put in front of them?

Unfortunately I think the answer is that most people have a lot of psychological conflicts around being happy/getting what they want. Why this happens is probably some complicated mixture of neurology of and pain acquired in childhood, and how to fix the problem is one of the central aims of psychology and psychiatry. The behavior Sebastian describes in his friend is a great example of one's ability to function being impaired by his psychology.

Hopefully we'll get even better at fixing these sort of problems, but in the mean time, hopefully more people will understand that these problems aren't inherent to living life, that there's no sad tradeoff to going after the life you want, and thus be comfortable seeking treatment. You don't have to be crazy to pursue psychological help, you just have to notice that your feelings sometimes get in the way of you functioning the way you want to.

cynicalkane 5 days ago 1 reply      
This is a great post, but what I really want to know is how to make a million bucks without Sebastian Marshall mentoring you and no real connections. Actually, maybe I start by trying harder to make connections.
Dove 5 days ago 0 replies      
Fantastic insight that people tend to say "no" when offered a chance to pursue their dreams. But I disagree about the reason. I don't think it's that they don't want to be different; having an interesting dream is already being a bit different. I think it's that once you can have something, it's no longer a dream.
martinkallstrom 5 days ago 0 replies      
When I decided to embark on a new project this summer, I was at first held back by fear of failure. When I looked closer at the fear I realized that I could hack it by redefining my terms of success. Instead of defining success as making it big, I defined it as climbing up a steep learning curve. To do something new and learn from it, that's my definition of success.

And like that, the fear was gone. I'm now one month into my project, and I'm crushing it. Never been happier.

ScottWhigham 5 days ago 1 reply      
Very powerful - thanks for sharing.

But the more you do, the further away you get from being understood, from the joys of normal life, from being understood by your neighbors and backing each other up and living together harmoniously.

I cried for the first time in three years when I realized it.

The million dollar question… why don't people take the large opportunities in front of them? Why don't they allow their dreams to become realities?

Become it means you won't be understood. And we need to be understood, fundamentally, it's so important to us.


redsymbol 5 days ago 0 replies      
Very inspirational. If you're a startup founder/entrepreneur, worth your time to read fully.

Reading from beginning to end, I found the last paragraph powerfully moving. (Skipping to the end won't work - that last short para builds on everything before.)

seats 5 days ago 0 replies      
This is awesome, and I totally agree-

"It's like everyone fantasizes about… whatever… but once their fantasies start to become reality, they piss their pants and self-sabotage."

joss82 4 days ago 0 replies      
It proves, once again, that extrinsic motivation does not work.

If you help someone achieve a goal, they will owe you some of their success, lessening their own merit.

On the opposite, as this story shows, the intrinsic motivation can make you do stuff that you thought impossible: http://www.maximise.dk/blog/2009/04/moving-boat.html

So maybe to help people achieve their dream, you have to tell them that it can't be done, that it's impossible.

This would be a truly altruistic way to help people, since you can't claim any part of their success in that case. All they will tell you will be "I told you it can be done!".

csomar 4 days ago 0 replies      
Change in financial situations creates lot of stress. When your stress level is high, the typical path you are going to take is the one that alleviates your stress and not increase it.

Sebastian is suggesting x10 higher wages for his clients. This is a financial breakthrough in the life of the client. It creates enormous amount of stress. The stress pushes you back, for a less stressful zone.

I say this because I was there, and I'm sure I'll be there again. I see this differently than the OP. I don't think that people don't understand you, especially when they are smart. The simple fact of thinking of it generate stress and they hide from hard/stressful situation.

aganders3 5 days ago 0 replies      
Thanks, I enjoyed this post. I don't resonate with everything he says, but it was worth reading. The more philosophical points of his post were an interesting contrast to this piece I read yesterday:

Reading the OP I was actually a bit put off by what seems like vague braggadocio, but then I turned it around on myself - maybe that's me suffering from the same illusion as a mask for my own jealousy?

rjbond3rd 4 days ago 0 replies      
Great writing, but here is a quibble regarding the "...pretty girl, maybe 23 years old. She's not beautiful... she'll... be a very good wife for someone."

Ouch. I know he's just day-dreaming there, and his point is that she is a "normal" person. But why define her success in terms of being a "wife for someone"? She could -already- be an incredibly successful, independent person living life on her own terms, making her own rules.

And for all we know, she may be just as alienated from normalcy as the author. Sorry to nitpick but this hit home for me.

Hisoka 5 days ago 0 replies      
I just want to say.. this is 1 of the most insightful, and meaningful posts I've read in my entire life. Thank you so much for sharing this. I resonated with every single bit. Thanks for not making feel alone in my thoughts.
typicalrunt 5 days ago 2 replies      
Amazing post. I read every word of it (as opposed to just scanning it).

What type of work does he do* and where can I meet/read more people like him?

He strikes me as a kind of mentor...something which I find is lacking in the IT industry. Mentors don't always need to be the smartest person in the room, they just need to have experience and patience to see the things that you are blind to.

* He says he's a strategist, but that's awfully vague.

mikecane 5 days ago 0 replies      
Holy shit, yes. But you don't even have to talk about the kind of skywalking he's engaged in. Anyone from a blue-collar or lower-class background who does non-manual labor is automatically alienated from everyone and everything they knew. See Limbo: Blue-Collar Roots, White-Collar Dreams by Alfred Lubrano.
tintin 4 days ago 0 replies      
I'll be fair with him: I would also decline because I would not like to be like him.
For me it has nothing to do with being understood. I read his 'who am I' and all I thought was "man, his life is so empty". But I can't say why.

Sometimes people just want a simple life. Making a lot of money or working less hours does not mean your life will be better or more enjoyable.

cgopalan 5 days ago 1 reply      
The call to action on this post seems to be stop worrying about the fact that you will not be understood and go ahead with your plans.

I am curious. Does the fear of not fitting in outweigh the benefits of financial freedom?

I dont know the answer to this question since I have never been in that situation, so I thought I would ask.

killion 5 days ago 0 replies      
When the headline is meaningless it doesn't make me want to click off.
fscottqureshi 5 days ago 0 replies      
Way too wordy, not nearly as insightful as he thinks it is.

This guy is clearly so full of it on so many levels. All hat, no cattle.

idlewords 5 days ago 3 replies      

A prolix.


Linus Torvalds now on GitHub github.com
313 points by olliesaunders  2 days ago   71 comments top 13
cookiecaper 2 days ago  replies      
It'd've been advantageous to see this go on a purely open service like Gitorious instead. They often provide similar features as GitHub and could definitely use the exposure of Linus's account.

I use and enjoy GitHub, so this definitely isn't a personal gripe, I'd just like to see the competition in that space heat up a bit, and there'd be bonus points if we could simultaneously promote a completely open platform.

cpeterso 1 day ago 1 reply      
The "torvalds" github account claims to have been created today. Did github have reserve that account name for Linus or did they boot a squatter? I see there dubious accounts registered for "linustorvalds", "billgates", and "stevejobs" but not "billg" or "sjobs".

btw stevejobs uploaded Windows 8 source code in 2009! Bill, you might want to give Steve a call. ;)

moe 1 day ago 1 reply      
Poor Linus will probably be flooded with patches and pull requests for every commit he makes.

On the other hand, he might very well spark some interesting things just by committing small stubs of his ideas.

yesbabyyes 1 day ago 0 replies      
Sorry for taking http://github.com/linus, Linus!
jsaxton86 1 day ago 0 replies      
The README file is great:

TL/DR: I've never used GTK before, I know my code sucks, but my little divelog program is better than anything else I could find, and if someone wants to fix my code they are welcome to do so.

grandalf 1 day ago 1 reply      
Congrats to the Github team for this. I'd say it's a pretty huge endorsement, regardless of whether Linus intended it that way or not.
bostonvaulter2 1 day ago 2 replies      
I assume diveclog is for scuba diving?
xuhu 1 day ago 0 replies      
Hard to believe, but the sources compile cleanly on win32 (using mingw). And ... it actually works!

I put binaries up at http://patraulea.com/diveclog/diveclog-win32-110904.zip

wtracy 1 day ago 0 replies      
He has nearly a thousand followers within a day of creating an account. Nice.
thedjpetersen 2 days ago 1 reply      
It would be really cool if he puts his fun side project scripts up. I would enjoy seeing what he hacks on the side.
MrKurtHaeusler 1 day ago 0 replies      
Hmm he seems to have left out the unit tests.
tbranyen 1 day ago 0 replies      
Michael Arrington Resigns From Techcrunch wsj.com
315 points by moses1400  3 days ago   74 comments top 23
glymor 3 days ago 4 replies      
If the paywall is affecting you:

TechCrunch founder Michael Arrington is resigning as editor of the popular technology blog, and will run a $20 million venture-capital fund backed by TechCrunch-owner AOL Inc. and several venture-capital firms.

Mr. Arrington "will run the fund and will continue to write for TechCrunch, but will have no editorial oversight," said an AOL spokesman. Erick Schonfeld, who has served as co-editor in New York, will become interim editor while AOL searches for a replacement for Mr. Arrington, the spokesman said. AOL purchased the site last year.

Mr. Arrington's new fund, called CrunchFund, closed Thursday with $20 million, according to people familiar with the matter. AOL leads the limited-partner group, which includes a long roster of venture firms that kicked in $1 million each: Austin Ventures, Kleiner Perkins Caufield & Byers, Greylock Partners, Redpoint Ventures and Sequoia Capital.
Several individuals contributed money, including Marc Andreessen and Ben Horowitz of the venture firm Andreessen Horowitz; general partners at Benchmark Capital; angel investors Ron Conway and Kevin Rose; and Yuri Milner of Russian firm DST Global.

It isn't immediately clear what is the fate of AOL's venture-capital arm, AOL Ventures, which has made recent seed investments in start-ups such as spam-defense company Impermium and price-tracking service Shopobot.

Mr. Arrington's partner in the fund is Patrick Gallagher, who has been a partner at VantagePoint Capital Partners since 2008.

Mr. Arrington wasn't immediately available for comment. He posted a message on Twitter after news of the fund broke: "slow news day."

Mr. Arrington, a former lawyer who is known to be well connected in Silicon Valley, started TechCrunch in 2005. The site built up a following for its coverage of young tech companies.

Long an angel investor himself, Mr. Arrington announced on TechCrunch in 2009 that he would stop making investments in start-ups due to a perceived conflict as both publisher and investor. It's "a weak point that competitors and disgruntled entrepreneurs use to attack our credibility," he wrote at the time.

But in April this year, after AOL acquired TechCrunch, Mr. Arrington announced he was investing in start-ups again, while also becoming a limited partner in venture funds Benchmark Capital and SoftTechVC.

Mr. Arrington has often said that transparency and full disclosure keep things above-board when his blog writes about companies he has some financial stake in.

guelo 3 days ago 0 replies      
Arianna is now saying that Arrington will not have writing privileges and that he no longer works for Techcrunch at all. http://www.businessinsider.com/mike-arrington-no-longer-work...
cft 3 days ago 1 reply      
Hopefully, Hollywoodization of the Silicon Valley will slow down as the Techcrunch hype machine falls apart.
flocial 3 days ago 1 reply      
The title is sensational. He's just relinquishing editorial responsibilities and not all writing privileges so he can run a AOL-funded venture capital fund. The question is will he be able to leverage his connections and influence to perform as a capable fund manager?
ig1 3 days ago 1 reply      
bangs head on wall

I've got a draft article I was writing for my blog arguing that Arrington should resign because his conflicts of interest make his role as editor of TC untenable.

Among other reasons I was arguing that Arrington has to disclaim his investment in any article about a competing firm, however since his investment in SV Angels he's now invested in a number of firms which are in stealth mode, which means in practical terms that it's impossible for him to meet his obligations.

ayanb 3 days ago 0 replies      
He could serve up some drama, but one thing most people will agree on, he has always cheered for and egged on startups and the ecosystem. Simply for that, I wish him good luck.
Kavan 3 days ago 0 replies      
AOL = TechCrunch and AOL = CrunchFund (as it is AOL's capital seeding the fund)

So even if the fund had a different name, and Arrington doesn't work for AOL directly, there is still a conflict of interest. As Paul Carr said in his article, are TC journalists likely to write a really negative piece on a CrunchFund company knowing that Tim Armstrong ultimately runs both?

Would the Wall Street Journal or the New Times start an investment fund and invest in the exact companies they are reporting on? IMHO they would not, as they realise their core business's need for independence.

If AOL want to follow through on their strategy "AOL is planning on being the largest high quality content producer for digital media." they need to realise that they are a media business and so need to follow the same rules basic rules for good journalism as every one else in their industry.

IMHO this is a very poor decision by Armstrong. For another glamorous dabble in the VC world where he will probably make about 10% ($2M) per annum, he could be betting the entire AOL business.

Not much upside and a whooooole lotta downside = bad trade.

petercooper 3 days ago 2 replies      
But staying with TC, notably. As he said after the sale:

So we begin another journey. I fully intend to stay with AOL for a very, very long time. And the entire team has big incentives to stay on board for at least three years.

However, I rather hope Michael's "dream" comes true instead: http://peterc.org/blog/2011/381-michael-arringtons-dreams-of... ;-)

bkrausz 3 days ago 2 replies      
Strange that this is only 11 months since the acquisition, I would have assumed he would leave at a 1 year vesting.
rmason 3 days ago 0 replies      
Well when there's a website with a pool predicting your departure the crowdsourced consensus was Arrington wouldn't be at AOL long:


gwern 3 days ago 0 replies      
Companies investing in other companies always strikes me as weird, and investing in a venture capital seems even weirder.

Companies have a fiscal responsibility to deliver as much money as possible to their shareholders, do they not? So if AOL is giving Arrington a few million dollars, that's money AOL shareholders are not seeing; it's only justifiable if AOL thinks Arrington will use the money to outperform the market (otherwise just invest in the market or return to shareholders) or there will be some friends-with-benefits deal worth millions to make up for Arrington's lack of edge. Neither one seems all that likely.

suprgeek 3 days ago 0 replies      
When AOL acquired TC, I get the feeling that the clock had started counting down for Michael Arrington. Not because AOL wanted to get rid of him, but more because of his need to be disruptive which was being reined in to some extent. The "loose" cannon tag is well earned to some extent.Should be interesting to see some of Arrington's larger investments as a VC.
itsnotvalid 3 days ago 0 replies      
Aren't we expecting this? Editorial independence is a good thing here, so really no surprise here.
wslh 3 days ago 0 replies      
Funny that their current e-mail contact is: crunchfund@gmail.com on CrunchBase page: http://www.crunchbase.com/financial-organization/crunchfund
jetbean 3 days ago 2 replies      
I have to ask, why is this important?
johnx123-up 3 days ago 1 reply      
Will the CrunchFund going to be a competitor for YC?
breck 3 days ago 1 reply      
Glad to see he's still writing for TC. If I notice MA's name in the byline, I usually read it.
nkeating 3 days ago 0 replies      
Cant say that I'm a fan of his tactics, but the Man's seemingly omnipresent influence on the tech world is undeniable.
par 3 days ago 0 replies      
Didn't he report some alleged collusion last year among some silicon valley angels? Perhaps he feels this is his way of competing and creating a true angel market. I'm interested to see where this goes, more startup money can only be good for us!
djd 3 days ago 0 replies      
Not big a news as the Title suggests.
Gist: He quit as editor and started a seed fund
bshells 3 days ago 0 replies      
$20 million. Who said we are having a eco crunch?
mrmaddog 3 days ago 3 replies      
Even though I hope M.G. Siegler becomes the next head of TechCrunch, I have a feeling that AOL will view this as it's chance to take command, and put one of its own on top.
puredemo 3 days ago 0 replies      
Good on Mr. Arrington. I'm looking forward to seeing what he does in the next few years.

He can be polarizing, but his journalism and analysis have always seemed spot on to me.

GitHub Flow scottchacon.com
314 points by schacon  5 days ago   61 comments top 16
jerhinesmith 5 days ago 6 replies      
"Every branch we push has tests run on it and reported into the chat room, so if you haven't run them locally, you can simply push to a topic branch (even a branch with a single commit) on the server and wait for Jenkins to tell you if it passes everything."

From this, it sounds like Jenkins is automatically picking up new topic branches, running the tests, and reporting on the results. Any suggestions on how to set something like this up? In my (very limited) experience with Hudson/Jenkins, this sounds like it wouldn't be possible without manually setting up a project for each branch.

Aqua_Geek 5 days ago 1 reply      
I wasn't aware that you can open pull requests from within the same project (i.e. not from a fork). The idea of using this for quick code reviews before merging code into the production branch is really interesting to me...
Pewpewarrows 5 days ago 2 replies      
Very good comparison between workflows of deploying several times per day versus much less often. While it might not be obvious to some, the exact same git "flow" won't work for both. Your tools should complement your corporate culture, not the other way around.

I think the most important thing to note from either method, though, is not to develop on master/trunk. Have a separate branch, or further branches off an entire "develop" branch. The tip of master should always be a stable build.

simonw 5 days ago 1 reply      
Question about the chat deploy bot: there are a few lines in there that look like this:

    hubot deploy github/ghost-down to production

Is that deploying a branch directly to production, or does that cause a branch to be merged with master and then master deployed to production? If the former, why deploy a branch directly rather than sticking to the "master is production" idea?

tednaleid 5 days ago 4 replies      
This sounds like a feature branch strategy, which I've only used in 1 or 2 person teams, never on projects that big.

There have been some articles recently on the downsides of feature branching that my experience agrees with (http://continuousdelivery.com/2011/07/on-dvcs-continuous-int...). I'm curious if the GitHub people have hit the same issues.

So if 2 people are working on the same feature, they're probably working off the same named branch.

Are there any race conditions with merging to master? I'm assuming that only one head is allowed in master, correct? So that before a pull request is accepted and merged into master, the latest master must first be merged into the feature branch and have CI run all tests successfully on it before the pull request can go. Does GitHub stop you from merging into master if someone else just merged into master and you're about to create a new head?

Then you have to merge the latest master into your feature branch, run CI on it again and then merge to master after CI is successful (assuming someone else didn't beat you to merging to master again).

(I've got a lot more experience with Mercurial than Git so my mental model could be a little off)

blackRust 5 days ago 0 replies      
Well written and presented. Important not to miss out his closing comment:

"For teams that have to do formal releases on a longer term interval (a few weeks to a few months between releases), and be able to do hot-fixes and maintenance branches and other things that arise from shipping so infrequently, git-flow makes sense and I would highly advocate it's use.

For teams that have set up a culture of shipping, who push to production every day, who are constantly testing and deploying, I would advocate picking something simpler like GitHub Flow."

So if you fall in the second category, this is a read for you.

gnufied 5 days ago 2 replies      
Its interesting that they abandoned CI Joe. I wouldn't say, I saw this coming. But, unless they wanted to maintain/write a full blown CI server themselves, it would have got harder for multiple projects.
dave1010uk 5 days ago 0 replies      
In a small web agency, mainly creating sites for clients, we find a mix of "git-flow"-style and continious deployment works best.

In the weeks before a new site is launched, we work to our own feature branches and merge into master when a feature is complete. In the run up to the site launch, when there's just CSS tweaks and the odd bug fix, people start working on directly master and deploying straight to staging servers.

When a site has been launched we normally keep working just on master, though occasionally creating feature branches for bigger changes.

This seems to work well for us as our DVCS needs change over time. I'd be interested to hear how other web agencies manage the different stages of developing clients' websites.

freedrull 5 days ago 3 replies      
Is it really zero-downtime deployment? I've read about Passenger 3's zero-downtime deployment strategy, but on my Passenger 3 setup, the server is still always a little unresponsive for a few seconds after a restart.
dasil003 5 days ago 1 reply      
Here's what I'm curious about that is not mentioned at all:

How do they manage deployment to staging? At my company we typically deploy topic branches directly to staging, but we have fewer developers and slower pace. If multiple people need to deploy topic branches we set up an ephemeral staging branch that merges the multiple topic branches together, but I can imagine that getting super hairy on a team the size of GitHub's.

Do they just mostly deploy directly to production, thus severely minimizing staging contention?

randall 5 days ago 5 replies      
One question i've always had: How often do "regular" people commit? Should I be committing every time I hit save... or should I wait? (I don't work in a dev team, so I'm looking for the wisdom of developers who have to work in teams.)
puredanger 5 days ago 1 reply      
I'm curious how CI is done on branches. It's mentioned but not elaborated on in the article.
geeksam 5 days ago 0 replies      
For those who enjoyed this talk, Corey Donohoe gave an awesome presentation at Cascadia RubyConf that goes into more detail about what they use Hubot for, and also mentions deploying branches to a subset of their boxes. It was one of the best talks of the conference: http://confreaks.net/videos/608-cascadiaruby2011-shipping-at...
ethank 5 days ago 1 reply      
I wish they'd post a guide on how to do a separate CI job per feature branch. That'd make this approach really scalable.
terinjokes 5 days ago 2 replies      
For reasons decided long ago, the company I'm at uses Mercurial, and I don't think we're in a position to retrain everyone and move to a private GitHub repo.

Anyone know of ideas for doing code reviews for the whole pull request, commit, or a single line like GitHub? This is probably the most beneficial part for us.

lylo 4 days ago 0 replies      
How do you handle branches which require DB migrations?
Tilemill: Maps done right tilemill.com
309 points by will2live  4 days ago   42 comments top 14
jinushaun 4 days ago 4 replies      
I've used TileMill pretty extensively, and while TileMill is great for generating static maps (PNGs) for infographics, it won't replace Google Maps any time soon for serving dynamic maps.

For example, you can serve a dynamic map of Washington DC on a website using TileStream and TileMap, but if you wanted to also view Fairfax, VA or Baltimore, MD, you're out of luck unless the tileset includes those tiles. With Google Maps, you always have access to all the tiles.

That's not to say that TileMill isn't a great product. The choice to use CSS is brilliant. Plus they're based in Washington DC, where I'm currently living! Nice to see tech outside of the Bay Area, NYC and Boston.

icefox 4 days ago 2 replies      
I never thought I would see the day where there is OS X and Linux downloads, but only a VM image for Windows. Very cool.
untog 4 days ago 1 reply      
This looks really, really slick. Next time I'm creating a map-based site I'm going to have a play around and see what customisations I can do. It's very difficult to match the default Google Maps style for clarity, but sometimes it would be good to have more options than their styles permit.
cal5k 4 days ago 1 reply      
I'm consistently impressed by the work DevSeed puts out with such a small team. What's the secret? :-)
nollidge 4 days ago 0 replies      
I think the screenshot should use a bit higher-contrast color scheme for the map. I was slouching in my chair a bit and couldn't really see what it was at first :)
dave1010uk 3 days ago 0 replies      
The Google Maps API lets you style maps too [1]. You can change colors and show/hide different map features. There's also a wizard [2] to make styling easier. You can get some very interesting effects [3].

[1] http://googlegeodevelopers.blogspot.com/2010/05/add-touch-of...

[2] http://gmaps-samples-v3.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/styledmaps/...

[3] http://googlegeodevelopers.blogspot.com/2010/10/five-great-s...

crenshaw 4 days ago 2 replies      
Was just about to download and start using this. No Windows version though. Maybe the start of a weekend project for me.
aw3c2 4 days ago 0 replies      
The ruleset screenshot reminds me of http://www.maperitive.net/ which is an excellent tool too (not web-based).
pbhjpbhj 3 days ago 0 replies      
In case anyone is wondering about the shell script for Ubuntu install it checks for maverick or natty and then installs like so:

    apt-add-repository ppa:developmentseed/mapbox
apt-add-repository ppa:chris-lea/node.js
apt-get update
apt-get install tilemill

rmc 3 days ago 0 replies      
I have started to play around with this foR custom OpenStreetMap rendering. Carto, the css format, seems a bit easier to play with than the raw mapnik xml.
gmbuell 4 days ago 0 replies      
The main MapBox site (http://mapbox.com/) is definitely worth checking out as well. They have a pretty cool iPad app and a nice ~6 minute video demoing everything (http://vimeo.com/20006926)
henry501 4 days ago 0 replies      
Love TileMill, love TileStream, love the tilesets. One day I'll move to DC...
domhofmann 4 days ago 2 replies      
Really incredible work. Is there anything we can do to speed up exporting, short of manually parallelizing across multiple computers? Distributed export might be a nice feature.
geogra4 4 days ago 0 replies      
This looks great, thank you.
9 million hits/day with 120 megs RAM tumbledry.org
295 points by verisimilitude  5 days ago   126 comments top 29
jroes 5 days ago  replies      
Blogs really don't need a PHP, Rails, or anything backend. It's static content.

Here's how I think blogging should work:

1. Visit a web app where you create your blog post, add pictures, use your rich text editor, that sort of thing.

2. Click the "Publish" button, which generates static HTML and runs any other processing like tag generation or pngcrush.

3. Your static HTML gets pushed out to some server that does the hosting for you. It could even be one of those really cheap shared hosting providers.

If you really want comments, let someone like Disqus or Intense Debate handle it. Pretty much any dynamic feature you need can be outsourced.

michael_dorfman 5 days ago 1 reply      
I guess my age is catching up with me-- my gut reaction on seeing the headline was: 120MB? That's a lot of RAM-- who has that? Oh, wait...
api 5 days ago 1 reply      
This underscores how ridiculously overspecced modern servers are due to the bloat of a lot of modern software.
jacques_chester 5 days ago 2 replies      
The key points:

    1. Use caching.
2. Use Nginx.
3. Use PHP-FPM.

silverbax88 5 days ago 1 reply      
I agree that this should be the standard, not an exception.
noelwelsh 5 days ago 0 replies      
I'd like to know how much the Joyent Smartmachine contributed to this. They make some bold claims on their website, and really do seem like a great alternative to EC2 (disk IO that doesn't suck!) if they deliver. Anyone have any experience?
dan_manges 5 days ago 0 replies      
Some interesting techniques in here (e.g. Faking Dynamic Features Using Inline Caching), but otherwise it seems easy to scale to this level when the majority of page content can be cached.
mfjordvald 5 days ago 0 replies      
Cross posting this from a comment I made on reddit:
This is something I've actually worked extensively on solving and it's not quite as easy as this article claims it to be. In fact, there are quite a few too many draw backs to this method to any site that isn't largely static or updated very rarely.

* Whenever anything is updated the entire cache is invalidated and each item needs to be fetched again. This means you'll have some page loads being slow and others being fast. If you have a very dynamic website you will hardly ever even see a cached version.

* You can't cache things forever, primarily because when anything is updated the entire version namespace is invalidated. This means that if you have a site that isn't updated at all in a long time then the cache is still invalidated by the TTL and has to be updated. Of course, if you decide to cache forever and the version namespace is incremented then...

* You never know when your cache is full. Since the method of updating the cache isn't to invalidate keys but rather to just fill it with new keys, you will have a lot of stale data. This data will eventually have to get evicted from the cache. This means you don't reliably know when you need to upgrade your cache memory.

All that said. Version namespacing your cache is better than not caching at all and it's usually also better than having a lot of stale data as active keys. If you want to do proper cache invalidation in case you have a highly dynamic site then it's still possible, but it requires a lot more work, there's a reason for this famous quote: http://martinfowler.com/bliki/TwoHardThings.html

dan_manges 5 days ago 1 reply      
It's not apparent if the 9 million+ daily hits number is taking into account that peak hours will be higher than off hours. It would take 100 reqs/sec if the traffic is even throughout the day, but 375 reqs/sec if 15% of the day's traffic is in the peak hour.
drv 3 days ago 0 replies      
The title says "120 megs of RAM", but I wonder if that's at all comparable to a real machine with 120 MB. I imagine that the "120 MB" VM is running on a beefy host with tens (or hundreds) of gigabytes of RAM shared between the guest VMs and also used for disk cache. It seems likely that accessing a guest's virtual disk would actually hit the host's disk cache a lot of the time (especially when that guest has been busy recently); that would improve the speed of disk access for that VM enough that it could make up for the lack of memory for disk cache within the guest.

This is purely speculation, but I would be interested to see if there is any actual research to back it up.

I suppose if the guest in this instance is not swapping very often, then this is fairly irrelevant, but the article didn't mention anything about swap.

wingo 5 days ago 0 replies      
Very nicely done. Using JS to give personalized experiences seems to be the way to go. I suppose you could generate a JSON list of id,date pairs to reduce page bloat, if it matters.

[Edit: This is 100 qps. It's a lot for a blog, but is not an unreasonable load by any means.]

todsul 4 days ago 0 replies      
The difference between Apache and Nginx is that out of the box, Nginx is built for speed. Both are capable of thousands of requests per second, but Nginx arguably does it better with its event-based architecture (opposed to Apache being process based). The config syntax is also refreshingly simple, so converting .htaccess rules couldn't be easier.

We were recently paying a small fortune for hosting one of our websites. It was bumping up against memory limits even after a serious code rework and aggressive caching. Instead of upgrading we decided to test a new config using Nginx.

Now we run three sites, one fairly popular, on a 512Mb Linode with Nginx, APC, FPM, Varnish and a CDN, and it can take an amazing amount of load. Varnish needs memory, but without Varnish we could run this setup on a box a fraction of the size.

This plan costs $19/month! I still can't believe we're paying so little.

Instead of focussing just on the server though, and like the TumbleDry article somewhat suggests, HTTP cache is probably the best place to start in terms of performance. Varnish, CDNs, etc all rely on intelligent HTTP caching. And if you do it right, you don't need to worry (too often) about cache invalidation.

What I'm really looking forward to is making use of ESI in Symfony2 and Varnish. That will mean setting different cache headers for portions of pages, which will further reduce the need to manually invalidate cache.

For now though, I'm loving Nginx + FPM + APC.

g-garron 5 days ago 0 replies      
As a lot of you have said:
Static content is the key to success.
You can name it:

- Movable type

- Drupal + boost

- Wordpress + SuperCache

- Jekyll or other static website generators

Better if Nginx is serving those static files, LAMP can be behind creating the static files.

I used that way with Drupal+boost for a lot of time and worked.

kahawe 5 days ago 0 replies      
I have to say I haven't tried that myself nor have I looked at the prices so my question is: All the fun of having your own server aside, why wouldn't I rather just run a site like that on something like amazon ec2 and stop worrying about hits and load even if it is just a personal blog?
senthilnayagam 5 days ago 2 replies      
discovered blitz.io will keep me and my servers busy this weekend
ez77 4 days ago 0 replies      
For static, high-traffic, small-size content, doesn't it make sense to load a minimal OS entirely to RAM and serve it from there? Has anybody tried this? (I guess this rules out VPSes...)

Note: This is a variation of a previous comment I made, but a variation nonetheless. Sorry to belabor the point.

RyanKearney 5 days ago 1 reply      
I'm not too sure I'd go with a load testing company that can't even keep their own website up.


> Internal Server Error

ez77 5 days ago 2 replies      
Naive question: suppose that you serve a low-throughput site, say with a total of 3MB of data (probably text files). What's the simplest way to ensure that those 3MB of content (very little compared to 120MB) live always in RAM? By this I mean not giving the server a choice =).
antihero 5 days ago 2 replies      
That's about 100requests/sec, which isn't particularly amazing.
michael_h 5 days ago 0 replies      
By inlining the comments, he's reducing cpu time by...transferring extra data across the network?
gtklocker 5 days ago 0 replies      
He could just say "tl;dr\n<machine specs>\n<I use static pages>".
waffle_ss 5 days ago 4 replies      
Wonder how much faster it would be if PHP was taken out of the mix (looks like he's just just serving static pages anyway).
krmmalik 5 days ago 1 reply      
Quick Question. Would using Nginx as a front-end to Node improve performance in the same way it has done for serving PHP?
TylerE 5 days ago 0 replies      
One thing to point out, based on my experience, is that you need about 10x or more peak throughput to handle a given average throughput. Spikes kill you.
winsbe01 5 days ago 0 replies      
love it. gives me faith that the archaic machines i have serving can still hold their own!
njharman 5 days ago 0 replies      
hits/day and megs ram are orthogonal.
luigionline 5 days ago 0 replies      
how about just using a CDN service. There is no need to play around anymore.
schiptsov 5 days ago 0 replies      
There was some post about a happy Win/IIS/CF guy - he definitely should read this.. ^_^
j_col 5 days ago 1 reply      
Very impressive, it's amazing how the "LAMP" stack continues to evolve.
Amazon's Kindle Tablet Is Very Real. I've Seen It, Played With It. techcrunch.com
297 points by ssclafani  3 days ago   190 comments top 33
joebadmo 3 days ago  replies      
In certain ways, this "post-PC" era that Apple's brought us into with the iPad seems like a step backward. We're going back to something more like the broadcast television model, where a more or less centralized authority produces the content for passive users to consume. These tablets just keep getting more and more optimized for that.

I suppose it's somewhat natural, given the way the market works, but it seems our tools for consumption are advancing at a significantly greater rate than our tools for production.

I guess the opposing side is the Web. Amazon seems to be shaping up to be solidly on the side of the centralized authority-type cathedral builders, while the Web and Web technologies are more bazaar-like. It seems more and more like Google is the only powerful singular force whose incentives align with the Web instead of with more centralized production hubs.

SwellJoe 3 days ago 2 replies      
I was momentarily excited...until I read the description of the new Kindle.

I played with a Nook a few weeks ago, and almost bought one. $249 is nearly an impulse purchase price point. But, I already had a netbook, a Kindle, a laptop, a Nexus One (which broke a few days ago, to be replaced by a Sensation), a desktop, and a DS, so I talked myself out of it.

One of the big reasons is because I wouldn't be able to get rid of my existing Kindle. The Kindle has a killer feature, which I can't replicate: International 3G Internet for free. It's a piss poor excuse for a web browser, but when I'm out of the country, I can google "wifi hotspot city-name" and find a place to connect my netbook or laptop and get some work done. This is a miracle for someone that travels as much as I do.

The battery life is also spectacular. Since I travel in a motorhome, and sometimes go days without plugging in, the ability to read books without having to think about charging my ebook reader is awesome.

So, the two really awesome things about the current Kindle that I have, are not present in the Android Kindle. Also, the fact that they've forked Android hard makes me more than a little hesitant to consider it. My new phone is only a slight divergence from standard Android, and I find it annoying as hell...I'll probably be rooting it and putting a more standard Android on it when I have more free time. The notion of a total fork without a standard Market and all the Google apps (Maps is my lifeline when travelling), and possibly without some of the other apps I rely on, is just crazy. It's hard to imagine such a thing not sucking.

In short, it sounds like I'll be better served by a Nook, should I decide to buy a little ebook/tablet. At least it is readily converted to a standard Android device. Or, maybe I'll just wait out the next round of tablets...or, maybe I'll just not buy a tablet. I still have yet to figure out what I'd use one for. They seem to be highly focused consumption devices, and I do enough consumption as it is.

Lewisham 3 days ago 5 replies      
If Amazon are going to maintain an Android fork, I wonder how well Android apps will be able to play with it. It would be a huge disappointment if 2.2+ apps were unavailable (or installing Google Market for that matter).

I can see why Amazon has gone down this path, but I do wonder if it's the right thing, rather than doing everyone's favorite/most hated carrier-specific bolt-ons instead. I also hope that Amazon doesn't give up on color e-ink, because reading on a Kindle is so much nicer.

achompas 3 days ago 1 reply      
By far the most interesting quote from Siegler's article:

Overall, the UI of this Kindle felt very responsive. You can flick through the carousel seamlessly. This is something Amazon has apparently been working on quite a bit, I'm told. And they continue to.

If Amazon gets this right, they're a long way towards recreating the iPad UX. In fact, this entire article suggests that the Kindle tablet will be the first widely adopted non-iPad tablet. In addition to the above:

1. The interface sounds great. I am a humongous fan of the Kindle Cloud Reader and iOS interfaces, and I believe they're designed very well. Users can expect a well-designed tablet from Amazon.

2. Users can draw from a central source for their content. Amazon will provide all the movies, music, and books you need--something every other Android tablet has lacked so far. Mainstream users will appreciate the centralized content provision, especially from a company as respected as Amazon.

3. Cutting the Android Market solves a lot of potential issues: no spyware, no OS incompatibilities, no apps with large hardware requirements. Everything in the Amazon Appstore will work on this Kindle (I expect it to be a requirement for admission).

This tablet sounds very...Apple-like. A very closed ecosystem with access to interesting content and a curated app store. I would buy it if I was shopping for a tablet.

Steko 3 days ago 2 replies      
Five or Six Things That Occurred In My Brain When I Read This Article:

(1) $250 with free Prime? Buying one for sure, maybe two.

(2) No camera? Ugg. At least a front facing camera for Skype pls, I'll pay extra.

(3) November, meh I was hoping late September.

(4) Eclair fork? That has to be wrong lots of optimizations made in Froyo which has been available for over a year.

(5) Maybe this provided some additional incentive for Google to withhold Honeycomb source?

(6) MG Siegler continues to break character and occasionally commit actual journalism. Would love to see this trend continue.

ajg1977 3 days ago 1 reply      
If there's one thing they need to nail on this device (beyond the Kindle app) it's web browsing.

a $250 7" tablet with a top class browser is a hugely compelling product all by itself.

drivebyacct2 3 days ago 2 replies      
Google's applications are not part of Android.

Putting a skin on Android and not shipping it with Google apps is NOT a fork. Even if you want to consider it one in a technical definition, it's not a significant one. It's as much a fork of Android as CyanogenMod is. (CM does not come with Google Apps, though they can be added after-the-fact).

superuser2 3 days ago 4 replies      
E-ink made the Kindle. Tablets are exciting, but reading a novel on a backlit screen is no fun, and if it were, we'd read on our cell phones, because they're easier to carry around.

This is disappointing. The Kindle 2 (the model I had) did one thing, and one thing phenomenally well. I don't want my kindle to be a Swiss army knife.

johnyzee 17 hours ago 0 replies      
E-ink is what makes the Kindle for me, it is such a pleasure to read off a screen that does not feel 'electric'. The months of battery life are nice too. I also don't get how TechCrunch has the e-ink devices being the 'lower cost' models, my DX was around $650, way more than this device.

Lastly, I wonder how the rumored browser will work and how it will affect the pricing model. 3G connectivity is free with current Kindles. That works for Amazon because you only ever use the network to download books, and the Kindle browser is restricted essentially to wikipedia. If unrestricted browsing means I will have to pay subscription for a 3G data connection that will be a major pain in the ass compared to now. Particularly since I do not want to browse the web on my Kindle, I have better options for that.

psychotik 3 days ago 1 reply      
This could become a potential nightmare for app developers. Assuming they don't break public APIs in their custom fork, developers are still going to need to worry about backward compatibility and not being able to provide advanced features for their apps on Android devices. Couple that with problems with payments/in-app purchases and this is just a nightmare waiting to happen for Android developers.

If the forked-OS stuff is true, this feels like a bad move by Amazon.

gamble 3 days ago 1 reply      
This will have a hard time competing with the iPad internationally, if it really is focused on deep integration with their digital stores. Amazon has been extremely reluctant to roll out their content stores beyond the US. For example, they still haven't expanded their mp3 store to Canada.
mootothemax 3 days ago 2 replies      
I've been sorely tempted to pick up a Kindle for the last few months, and had thought it'd make a nice Christmas present. I know - I'm so considerate. Given that the present version has been out for a while, I was wondering if an updated version would be released in time for the Christmas rush.

10 hour battery life, not going to fit in at the beach, nor the less safe parts of the city? Nah, I'll go for the current Kindle instead thanks :)

gfodor 3 days ago 0 replies      
This is cool and all, but I'd really like Amazon to make a DX with an extra inch of space, so it's the size of a real book, and I can read PDFs on it without squinting.
georgemcbay 3 days ago 0 replies      
Sounds pretty good to me with the exception of "pre-2.2". No Dalvik JIT? Hopefully that part was a misunderstanding. Having run pre-Froyo and Froyo+ on the same device, the jit engine is a pretty big deal.
6ren 2 days ago 0 replies      
Won't be as successful as the Kindle, because the kindle is exceptionally tailored to its usage of buying and reading books - whereas this is android dragged half-way there. And android tablets haven't been doing well anyway (20:80), even the very best of them. The 3G kindle's tailoring is:

- free 3G (yes, free), to buy amazon books

- black and white E-Ink which is much closer to paper than colour displays.

- much lighter and slimmer (241grams; 8.5oz)

- long battery life (2 months - about x60 longer than a tablet), though this probably overshoots the need. i.e. they'd be better off using a smaller battery (or even AA batteries).

I'm so impressed with the Kindle because it resists trying to be the best at everything, but instead makes comprises that optimize it for its purpose. Whereas the Android tablet described here is much worse on all fronts and half-hearted as Android: neither fish nor fowl.

jmelloy 3 days ago 2 replies      
I think it's interesting that everybody is attempting to differentiate on top of the Android kernel, and are forced to build their own skin to compete.

Free Prime memebership (for life?) is interesting. Amazon has a big content catalog, and it makes a hell of a lot more sense for them to go this alone and not be forced to use Google's shit app store.

Overall, I think they'll have trouble differentiating between them and the iPad and them and the nook Color, and it doesn't seem like they've really brought anything new to the table.

blinkingled 3 days ago 0 replies      
* Google's Android Market is nowhere to be found. In fact,no Google app is anywhere to be found. This is Android fully forked. My understanding is that the Kindle OS was built on top of some version of Android prior to 2.2.*

MG goes on to say it is smooth and responsive. And I think many Apps are going to be incompatible with anything less than Android 2.2. Given this I would think Amazon will want to have at least 2.2 on there.

Would be kinda sad if they ran 1.6 on it in 2011!

[Edit] May be it is 2.1 - AWS SDK for Android Requires Android 2.1 (API Level 7) or higher. Oh well may be they will keep it up to date!

listic 2 days ago 1 reply      
Does anyone know how durable are the current e-ink readers? May it be so that Amazon moves away from e-ink readers in particular because they can't be made reliable?

I like to read books and I was a theoretical fan of e-ink readers, but I never owned one. My younger brother, on the other hand, was against them: "why buy the device that only reads books?" On a recent trip to the countryside he borrowed a (PocketBook 301 plus) reader from a friend and put it in the tent's pocket together with a phone, iPod and other such stuff. In the morning, he found that the screen failed because it had a tiny crack. Maybe someone accidentally kicked it or something, but modern phones, iPod and such withstand abuse rather well, and this thing broke after one night - it even was in its own leather case that covers the screen! Googling revealed that cracking screen is a common issue.

I start to suspect that those e-ink screen are a flawed technology as they are. There might be a reason Sony makes their readers with a metallic case, but do they last even then?

kloncks 3 days ago 0 replies      
A lot of people questioned whether or not there was a market for a CrunchPad, or a cheap entry tablet.

Looks like this will validate that. Now, if only webOS could chime in and make this an interesting battle. That would be special.

systems 3 days ago 0 replies      
First you think its a revolution, then it calms down to en evolution.
From tablets to Notebooks

1. First come tablets

2. Then tablets gets a stand (so you dont have to hold them all the time)

3. Then tablets gets a keyboard (so you can type quickly)

4. Then tablets gets a mouse like device (so you dont have to touch the screen while on the stand)

5. Then they run (your favorite distro of) linux

6. Then they become keyboard-less more portable laptops

7. Then we call them notebooks

markgx 3 days ago 0 replies      
Amazon could carve out the "sub-iPad" tablet market if their $250 price point holds and they release a usable tablet. Look at what happened with the HP firesale.
mrinterweb 3 days ago 1 reply      
I heard a lot of rumor that the rumored Amazon tablet would use a Qualcomm Mirasol passive color display technology with a refresh rate capable of running video. I wonder if this rumor is still circulating or confirmed.
ipsin 3 days ago 2 replies      
I'm not interested unless it's:

1) easily flashable with an actual Android ROM (a la Nook/cyanogen)

2) got a 3G data connection, similar to the current 3G kindle

If both are true, it's a really compelling device.

AdamGibbins 3 days ago 1 reply      
I really hope they don't hope to make this a replacement for their eink non-backlit devices. That would be a disaster :(
AndrewClyde 3 days ago 0 replies      
I think the Kindle-branded tablet will be successful and manage to compete with the iPad.

However, it's not going to win in the way people expect it to; I think it'll bring a lot of people into the post-PC tablet world and introduce a cheap tablet to a lot of people, but it's not going to revolutionize anything major and won't be able to do anything the iPad and/or TouchPad can't do.

rospaya 3 days ago 0 replies      
Wonder if they'll be selling it internationally, like a Kindle. The major difference is that this probably won't have a 3G connection so it should be even simpler.
mikecane 2 days ago 0 replies      
It will be interesting to see if Amazon permits loading of competitor eBook apps. Right now, both Aldiko and Kobo are available in their App Store (I can't find Sony, that might be a search bug, maybe...). And if they do allow it, are we in for a 30% in-app purchase vig down the road ala Apple?
Fjslfj 3 days ago 0 replies      
Facebook is forking Android in a similar fashion.
tricolon 3 days ago 1 reply      
I really don't get the point of a Kindle with a battery life of only 10 hours.
rmc 2 days ago 0 replies      
Is this the start of the tablet wars?
d0m 3 days ago 1 reply      
Any TL;DR with a picture?
eyko 2 days ago 0 replies      
I'm buying.
rshm 3 days ago 3 replies      
$250 is too much. Ebay/Amazon has similar specs 800MHz/7"/Android 2.2 for $87 and below with a free shipping.
Iran forged the wrong SSL certificate daemonology.net
245 points by cperciva  4 days ago   108 comments top 20
jgrahamc 4 days ago 2 replies      
This is something I've been talking about for a while. Back in 2009 I gave a presentation at Virus Bulletin on JavaScript security problems and highlighted some statistics on remotely loaded JavaScript:

1. 47% of the top 1,000 web sites include google-analytics.com

2. 69% include a remotely loaded web analytics solution

3. 97% load something remotely

If you can attack any of these you get access to a very large number of web sites and can inject arbitrary code. Clearly forging the SSL certificate for SSL loaded remote JavaScript is one way in, another is an attack on the DNS of non-securely loaded remote JavaScript.

At the time techcrunch.com loaded 18 different JavaScript elements remotely. Attacking one would allow a complete site takeover using JavaScript. And those 18 elements could easily have been loading other elements so that attack could have been done through a third-party.

A quick survey in the UK shows that the banks HSBC, Lloyds TSB, Royal Bank of Scotland all load third-party JavaScript on the secure page used for online banking login. Barclays look like they are not, but in fact the domain they are using for one piece of JavaScript is a CNAME for a third-party.

yahelc 4 days ago 0 replies      
There's an easy solution here: Load Google Analytics locally. There's no urgent need to load ga.js from Google's servers; there are benefits, namely speed, utilizing client cache, and getting updates, but its core functionality does not rely on where ga.js comes from.

Then, the only resource loaded form Google's servers is http://ssl.google-analytics.com/__utm.gif, and that's just loaded via a new Image(), so even if you MITM that resource request, it doesn't execute as a script or anything similar.

cperciva 4 days ago 4 replies      
Paging tptacek, please come to the white courtesy phone and explain that SSL is the greatest thing since sliced bread. ;-)
robtoo 4 days ago 1 reply      
We don't know that they didn't get a forged certificate for ssl.google-analytics.com.

Diginotar haven't (AFAIK) released even a partial list of affected domains, other than admitting that there were quite a lot of them.

mike-cardwell 4 days ago 1 reply      
I'm not a big fan of handing over the security of my website to third parties by letting them inject arbitrary code into my pages, eg Google Analytics. A lot of people seem to do it without giving it any consideration though.

You have to weigh up the pros and cons I agree. However, do you need that like button which works by including javascript from facebook.com, or can you live without it? Even better, can you do something alternative which allows you to have a like button, but without including third party script?

derrida 4 days ago 1 reply      
The DigiNotar hack adds to the hack of Comodo in terms of recent attacks on certificate authorities. The lead of Comodo blamed the attack on "a sophisticated state actor" aka Iran.

Moxie Marlinspike pointed out that it was his script 'sslsniff' that the hackers downloaded to carry out the attack. They didn't even change IPs from the one they used to download 'sslsniff' to the one used in the attack. The lesson: this could have been carried out by a script kiddie.

The head of security companies implying that hacking attacks must be caused by a state actor, simply because they don't understand the attack, creates a frightful prospect for the future of world security. Take these claims with a grain of salt. So long for 'sophisticated state actors'.

Source: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z7Wl2FW2TcA

kahawe 4 days ago 1 reply      
Can anyone explain to me how I can open up a CA and get my CA certs distributed with browsers and JVMs and what not? Is there some sort of "IANA" that approves and manages this and why would they approve all sort of shady CAs which clearly are a dangerous weak link in the whole SSL construct.
brown9-2 4 days ago 1 reply      
Sooner or later it's going to happen; obtaining forged SSL certificates is just too easy to hope otherwise. What can we do about it? Don't load the Google Analytics javascript when your site is accessed via HTTPS. This is easy to do: Just throw a if("http:" == document.location.protocol) around the document.write or s.parentNode.insertBefore code which loads the Google Analytics javascript. On the website for my Tarsnap online backup service I've been doing this for years " not just out of concern for the possibility of forged SSL certificates, but also because I don't want Google to be able to steal my users' passwords either!

I don't understand - if you are uncomfortable loading the GA javascript into your pages when users are using https to visit your site, why are you ok with loading the GA JS when visitors are using http?

Or is it implied in here that the analytics is used on http only pages because the sensitive pages on your site are https only? In other words, you are only using GA on non-sensitive portions of your site?

fletchowns 4 days ago 2 replies      
How come it's just one CA that is needed to ensure the trust of a domain, especially one as important as *.google.com? It seems like it's only a matter of time before something like this happens again.
oldstrangers 4 days ago 2 replies      
All this SSL spoofing of late coincides nicely with the adoption of "always on https" by facebook/google/twitter/et al.
ck2 4 days ago 1 reply      
This is how you delete Diginotar from Firefox btw


but I think they just pushed new minor versions with them removed anyway.

derrida 4 days ago 2 replies      
Iv 4 days ago 3 replies      
I use NoScript. google-analytics is never activated.
Triumvark 4 days ago 0 replies      
It's like Comodo and RSA are the security equivalent of 'too big to fail.'
pavpanchekha 4 days ago 0 replies      
What would be necessary for some Paxos-based system to be used to sign certificates? That way, half of CAs would have to get hacked before something like this could be pulled off?
fun2have 4 days ago 2 replies      
Does this apply to ad networks as well?
aqrashik 4 days ago 1 reply      
Slightly offtopic. can anyone explain how DigiNotar revoking the wrong certificate works?

As per my understanding the browser simply trusts all certificates issued by a trusted issuing authority, so how would you revoke a single certificate?

TobiHeidi 4 days ago 3 replies      
Just by having a forged SSL Certificate for ssl.google-analytics.com how can they supply their javscript ? The request still goes to the google servers and not to any evil-democracy-suppressors.gov.ir

So sure if they could reroute the request to their servers evil things could be done. But they can NOT. Or am i missing something ?

blumentopf 4 days ago 0 replies      
What with Mozilla wanting to build a browser-based OS, the non-existent security measures of the DOM will beam us back like several decades in terms of security. Awesome. Not.
swombat 4 days ago 1 reply      
I know that security through obscurity is no security at all, but I don't think it's particularly clever or helpful to give direct, useful advice to the goons in Iran.

This is not an anonymous argument. If you were sitting next to me, I'd be, right now, arguing that you should not publish this article because it will only cause harm overall.

What's next? "Why terrorists are stupid and what they should do to cause maximum damage"? How will you feel when the Iranian government does implement your kind suggestion?

How Steve Jobs handles trolls (WWDC 1997) garry.posterous.com
236 points by ryannielsen  5 days ago   65 comments top 16
stiff 5 days ago 2 replies      
Context: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenDoc#Cancellation

This guy is not necessary a troll, of course this is just speculation, but if a project he was working on for a few years got cancelled, I could pretty well understand his frustration, even if the decision to cancel turned out valid in the end from a business point of view. I don't think it is valid to stick labels on people (both on the "troll" and on Steve Jobs) without knowing the whole story.

redthrowaway 5 days ago 2 replies      
I'd hardly call the guy a troll. He was a developer who had sunk time and money into developing with a technology (OpenDoc) that Apple had just killed. He wasn't polite, but he was justifiably upset and dismissing him as a troll is both inaccurate and unfair.
tomstuart 5 days ago 1 reply      
The "inaudible" part of the question is: "I would like, for example, for you to express in clear terms how, say, Java, in any of its incarnations, addresses the ideas embodied in OpenDoc."
acangiano 5 days ago 0 replies      
The "trolling" (hardly) aspect is a non-story. What's brilliant about this video is the message of starting with the customer experience, and then pick the technologies to serve the customer best.

Should you develop web, desktop, or mobile apps for your next startup? Watch the video. Find a problem, then pick the technology stack that provides the best solution and experience for your customers.

jmtame 5 days ago 0 replies      
Kind of reminds me of this story: http://techcrunch.com/2010/09/08/kno-raises-46-million-more-...

I know one of the early engineers who wrote the low-level software for that device. He was one of the more arrogant engineers I've known and basically dismissed the iPad because it didn't have enough "power." When he showed me the Kno tablet, I said "I couldn't even fit that thing in my backpack, let alone on any desk. You're never going to sell this thing to people." He insisted that power was more important.

And it turns out he was wrong because he was thinking like an engineer. Kno scrapped that idea and decided to build exclusively for the iPad. http://techcrunch.com/2011/04/08/kno-bails-hardware-30-milli.... Good on them.

spiralganglion 5 days ago 2 replies      
There's another part of the talk (not included in the linked clip) where someone asks Steve what things they'll do differently than the rest of the industry. Steve responds that being different isn't important; what's important is being better. The two have a back and forth on this issue " it's hilarious in hindsight given the perfectionist nature that Apple has come to embody.

And for what it's worth, the market seems to have proven Steve right. Nowadays, we can see some of Apple's competitors resorting to "different" in an attempt to gain traction. Doesn't seem to be working for them, either.

kevin_morrill 5 days ago 4 replies      
It's helpful to watch the preface video at: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=u...!

This is a lesson Microsoft needs and has never really learned, neither under Gates nor Ballmer. The bizarre approach in Windows 8 that has all kinds of UI doing the same thing with no clarity around development platform sounds exactly like what Jobs talks about with people going in 18 different directions.

ssharp 5 days ago 1 reply      
"And, one of the things I've always found is that you've got to start with the customer experience and work backwards..."

This is such a common idea in business strategy that I have a hard time believing that most large companies don't, at least at the top, understand it. However, it also seems like a principal that is very hard to stay focused on as a product or service flows down throughout the company. There has to be a very good reason why this strategy flows through Apple's veins, yet gets lost in the mix of many of its competitors.

__david__ 5 days ago 0 replies      
"Mistakes will be made, but that's good because it means decisions are being made."

What a great insight, it's really striking a chord with me right now.

tmsh 5 days ago 1 reply      
His response is almost as great as jean patches. Man, that probably makes me sound like a troll. Oh well.

Here's to one of the greatest capitalist visionaries of our lifetime though. In jean patches no less.

chuinard 5 days ago 2 replies      
This was really interesting, because lately I've been asking myself how to improve my design ability by starting with the technology or starting with the customer.

I will read through the App Engine docs every day or so to figure out what cool thing I can make out of the APIs provided. Maybe I should forget that and just think to myself 'what would I want to use?'.

d_r 5 days ago 0 replies      
This is a great video. For one, it showcases SJ's confidence in deprecating technologies for the benefit of newer and better things.

It also underscores the importance of being able to translate tech "pieces" into compelling products. I'm an app developer. When reading documentation for the latest release of iOS or Lion SDKs, and seeing all of the new APIs, I feel like a kid with a brand-new box of Legos. The challenge (and art) is in combining these technologies to build something actually catchy.

aoporto 5 days ago 1 reply      
Two great things to note about this video:
1. Jobs puts a good amount of time thinking about what he is going to say. Many presenters would just start speaking, some would ramble, even just a little. Pauses can be a good thing in a presentation for both the speaker and the audience.
2. Start with the customer experience. Absolutely.
Mithrandir 5 days ago 0 replies      
RyanMcGreal 5 days ago 0 replies      
> I would like, for example, for you to express in clear terms how, say java, in any of it's incarnations, addresses the idea (inaudible).

I believe the (inaudible) part is "embodied in OpenDoc".

skrebbel 5 days ago 0 replies      
Only in America could "what have you been doing the last 7 years?" be considered an insult.

I consider it an interesting and spot-on question with, in fact, a very nice answer, too.

Someone who can't deal with questions like that probably should never dream of becoming CEO of any company at all.

Make things caterina.net
231 points by razin  2 days ago   30 comments top 9
swombat 2 days ago 3 replies      
Very interesting, but somewhat misleading, imho.

People who go their own way may well become leaders, simply because to go your own way you have to be decisive, and most people are indecisive, and in times of uncertainty they will look to people who are decisive to take the lead.

But that doesn't mean that the qualities listed are leadership qualities. I'd say that the ability to understand and empathise with people, to figure out what they want, the ability to motivate others to do their best, the ability to communicate convincingly, and the ability to make decisions under pressure - all those are way more important than the ones listed in the quote.

Of the list of leadership qualities:

> courage, endurance, patience, humor, flexibility, resourcefulness, determination, a keen sense of reality, and the ability to keep a cool and clear head even when things are going badly

I'd argue that only the last one is really a requirement for leadership. All the others make for a better leader, but they are not requirements.

wccrawford 2 days ago 4 replies      
I absolutely disagree with that quote about leadership.

If you aren't leading people, you aren't a leader. It's right in the name. If you're going your own direction, alone, you're a pioneer. But not a leader.

grappler 2 days ago 0 replies      
I especially connected with the bit about "fear of missing out", and with her earlier post (linked in the article) on that subject.

When I started playing with computers in elementary and middle school, it helped me put aside some of the trivial things that were important to my peer group at the time, like wearing the right brands or being seen with the right people. Technology was about making a better world, sharpening useful skills, and attacking hard problems that used to be impossible to solve.

The connection between people that technology has brought over the last couple decades is awesome for a great many reasons. I doubt I need to defend that point.

The biggest downside though, for me, is the invasion of the messiness of the social world into the idealism of the tech world. It bothers me when I go to an event that is ostensibly a "hackathon" or some similarly maker-oriented affair, and the mood is not unlike high school, or hollywood, or a nightclub. Many of the people there are paying acute attention to signals of status from others, and working on sending the right signals of status themselves.

It is my impression that motivations like elevating one's social status, and fear of missing out, are the primary things bringing most people into the world of technology today.

Improving the world, solving hard problems, and making things seem to be lower on the list. I'm sure communities focusing on these things are still thriving, but they seem to be getting harder to find, because the status seekers can be pretty good at adopting the lingo of the idealists.

antirez 1 day ago 1 reply      
Can't agree more. Another symptom of the same issue is that the Internet startup scene is becoming auto referential as hell.
hrabago 2 days ago 0 replies      
To some degree, I feel the same way.

I look at what people had created and in between the thoughts of "this is cool", "this is boring", and "why didn't anyone think of this before?", there's a sense of inspiration that someone has created something and people are using it now. (I also get something similar to NIH, but I've learned through the years to mostly ignore that.)

I get a lot of joy in using software to allow people to do something new, something better than they had done before, or just to make their everyday life a little bit easier.

KZMcPherson 2 days ago 0 replies      
Invigorating. I am one that got lost in all of the noise. Now 27 an just about to find my footing and get on track to be what I am suppose to be and that is "The One Which is Me". Since I was young I longed for the recognition that come to so many these days yet I have been chasing it in the wrong way. As you say her I really need to focus on making thing and get back to what really makes me happy which is studying what make enterprise business so successful and bringing back to the mom and pop that can barley turn on their own computer. I do this not to have the superiority complex, but to help those whom are lost in the riff of today and cannot find the way to the next stage and or the right person to actually want to help them and not just cash their check and go. thank you for helping to reset my mindset back where is needs to be .
badclient 2 days ago 1 reply      
But I want to hear about things out there that they love. About loving the thing they're building. There's less of that.

Just because lots more folks know about valuations and are connected does not mean that they are not building stuff.

This holier than thou post by Caterina actually just sounds like nostalgic rambling.

Let's get excited and make things.

This line, from the perspective she delivers it, is almost criminal. Most of us are nerds and have no problem building stuff. We do have a problem making money off it so kudos if we are building a little less and figuring out more about how to make money by charging or flipping(Caterina should know about this?)

chexton 2 days ago 0 replies      
Despite the potential conflict surrounding the leadership quote provided in the post I found that overall the post resonated with me.

As someone starting down the entrepreneurial path I have found that it's easy to get caught up reading the countless startup news sources, scouring endless books on how to succeed or attending the large number of conferences pitched at people like me. All have their merit in moderation but, particularly as someone who has decided to bootstrap my current startup, I find I get the most done and feel the best about what I'm doing when I focus on what my startup is building and how we're building it, rather than getting caught up in "all that noise".

In writing it down here it seems pretty obvious that focusing on what you're building should be the priority but it can be surprisingly easy to lose focus.

wyclif 2 days ago 2 replies      
Perhaps I could take this "make things" post seriously if the things made and shouted out (cough Flickr) could go the distance and remain viable. Did Flickr have a good run? Sure. But it seems to me there's a problem inherent in cashing out your company and moving on to the next thing. The Internet is littered with the corpses of once-great companies.
Netflix to lose Starz, its most valuable source of new movies latimes.com
231 points by mattjaynes  4 days ago   144 comments top 28
bittermang 4 days ago  replies      
"However, executives at Starz apparently concluded that they would lose even more money by giving consumers a reason to subscribe to Netflix instead of the cable channel."

I don't think they get it. The landscape has changed and I'm not going back.

I don't have cable. I don't have satelite. I don't have an antenna for broadcast TV. I have the Internet serving content to my TV via my Xbox, and I use it to watch Netflix.

If your content isn't available on Netflix. I'm not consuming your content. Period.

I'm done bending over backwards. I'm done with schedules. I'm done with managing the space on my DVR. I'm done keeping up with new episodes and seasons. I'm done with movie theaters full of loud other people who aren't me, and the litany of other issues that have been discussed to death from overpriced tickets, to concessions, to 3D projector woes and content. I'm done with physical media getting scratched. Hell, I'm even done with sketchy torrent sites, and different scene groups fighting over who gets to release what, and a billion codecs and formats. I'm done with it. I'm done.

So frankly, good bye and good riddance to Starz. Go climb this hill and die upon it. I never liked the fact that their schizophrenic content releases would appear during a timed window, only to disappear from my list later before I actually got a chance to watch it. I grew to avoid movies labeled with the Starz logo, and my heart would sink when a feature would open with one, because I knew the experience was fleeting and I wouldn't be able to enjoy the content later. So I'm done with that too.

SwellJoe 4 days ago 2 replies      
Unless they've got a better deal with Hulu or someone else, they've just cut off their nose to spite their face. Old media are amazingly good at being blind to the paradigm shift that will kill them, even when they have the opportunity to make money from that paradigm shift.

The options Starz (and every other premium cable provider) have right now are these:

1. Get that content online, now, in a convenient form that is cost competitive with Netflix and Hulu or at least Amazon Video on Demand.


2. Stagnate and eventually die, because the subscriber base for pay cable is going to do just that. Only old people are going to have cable in two or three years.

There are no other options. Without Netflix or Hulu, if Starz doesn't have the ability to launch their own effective pay service online, they will never see any of my money (they probably wouldn't anyway; as others have mentioned, Starz videos tended to be ones I avoided due to quality problems). I have never had cable in my life...but I pay to consume premium content online. I have both Netflix and Hulu+ accounts, and I spend an average of $10 a month on movie rentals and purchases at Amazon. I'm a new customer; an entirely new revenue stream. I didn't cancel cable to use Netflix. I used Netflix because it was the only way I was going to watch TV and movies at home. I'm where their growth could come from, and they don't want it.

cletus 4 days ago 1 reply      
I don't have cable TV. Hell, I don't have a TV. I watch about 3 hours of TV... per week. And you think I'm going to pay for cable to get your movies? Heh.

Fact is, $8/month for Netflix is all I can justify and I justify that largely based on TV reruns than movies. Add in Hulu (not Plus) and that's my limit.

Given all that if I could just get HBO Go without subscribing to cable, I'd gladly fork over maybe even $20/month. As it stands, I can't justify spending >$100/month for the "privilege" so I guess I have to continue relying on, well, other sources.

Steko 4 days ago 1 reply      

Reed Hastings replies:

"Because we've licensed so much other great content, Starz content is now down to about 8% of domestic Netflix subscribers' viewing. As we add a huge more content in Q4, we expect Starz content to naturally drift down to 5-6% of domestic viewing in Q1. We are confident we can take the money we had earmarked for Starz renewal next year, and spend it with other content providers to maintain or even improve the Netflix experience."

zach 4 days ago 2 replies      
This is the right move for Starz. They should focus on moving onto the iPad and the app/channel stores for Apple TV and the next-gen Google TV.

Re-upping would only antagonize their existing content partners who they also have to renegotiate contracts with. Plus it is probably killing their subscriptions on traditional outlets ("Starz? Oh, no thanks, that's the one I get on Netflix"). At least this way they can turn off the spigot and entice people to subscribe before Netflix is primarily cord-cutters anyway.

As for the way forward, licensing to Netflix is not exactly a forward-looking move -- Starz just a licensing middleman in this arrangement and they know it. They need to control a branded and coherent channel, not be a movie broker.

Starz was valuable because of their mainstream movie content. Despite comments about bittorrent, the major value of Starz on Netflix is about 8-year-old girls being able to watch Tangled on an Xbox 360 (again and again...). It has been huge for rounding out Netflix's pitch as an alternative to rental.

But to hear Reed talk about it, he probably was negotiating with the expectation that they'd be parting ways (how could they fix the Sony thing?) and so Netflix may not have been offering as much as last time anyway. I don't think the negotiations failing caught either side flat-footed.

I think these companies can focus better on their revenue when they're separated. Netflix will have to overpay to get their first big chunk of studio newish-releases, but that's okay. They'll have some different stuff and get creative and I bet we'll like the result.

Starz can figure out how to sell themselves to consumers without chopping themselves up. How? Well, every current Apple TV has 8GB of flash memory and Apple has put an App Store on every other platform they own, so you can see where that's going. And Google has gone double-or-nothing on Google TV for that reason. It sure seems like the Apple TV is the cable box of the future. Is Starz well-positioned to become a subscription service on the Apple TV? Sure. But maybe not if people can go next door to the Netflix app and get Starz movies there too.

Seems like the right thing is happening here. I like where this is going.

timjahn 4 days ago 1 reply      
My son turned a year old a few weeks ago. He's going to grow up choosing content on demand from our Roku. Maybe some WonderPets from Netflix. Or a current TV show from Hulu. Or the latest viral video of some kid a year older than him rocking out the Beatles on the drums on YouTube.

He won't be familiar with linear television schedules, or the idea of running home in time for a show. To him, our TV will be the place where he chooses what to watch, when he wants to watch it.

What these stupid studio executives don't understand is their grandchildren will be doing the same thing. Whether they like it or not.

jsherry 4 days ago 0 replies      
I'm sure that Starz gets it: the future of content is streaming. Everybody gets it. And it's frustrating that we don't have everything streaming today b/c the technology is there and has been there for some time. But the bottom line is that cable is still alive and well today, and the margins are much better there than what Netflix is offering.

Pirating is not the burning platform here like it was for music. Netflix is not iTunes. Content providers still have the option to make plenty of money through cable and they're going to do just that until that medium becomes completely disrupted and they no longer have that as a lucrative channel. Starz sees Netflix streaming as cannibalizing their cable business, and to a reasonably large extent they're probably right b/c Netflix streaming has gone mainstream. The day will come when cable will no longer support Starz (and others') content and they know it's coming. Until then, sad to say but this is just smart business.

mkr-hn 4 days ago 1 reply      
Give this whole mess ten years. Netflix or something like it will buy up companies like Starz and HBO in the bankruptcy. A self-solving problem.
nhangen 3 days ago 1 reply      
I for one am extremely tired of this kind of stuff happening and as a result, never knowing wheat I can watch, and can't watch, with Netflix streaming.

Two weeks ago, my son and I were watching LOTR and had to pause for some travel. When we got back, I was puzzled that I couldn't find a way to get it back on to finish...turns out their contract expired.

How is this OK for a company in this day and age? I'm tired of giving Netflix a pass because the content partners aren't playing fair. I'm sorry, but that's your business model, and now that you put the competition out of business, I need you to perform and not act like a 10 day old startup.

Screw both TV and video. If this is how it's going to be, I'm out. I'll stick to This Week in Startups, 5by5, and my book collection.

Jun8 4 days ago 1 reply      
This is a stupid (or desparate) move by Starz, but it also shows the weakness of Netflix: if you rely on someone else for content (same goes for API) for revenue, theye can screw you up (e.g. there goes 11% of our valuation), even if it's in the short term. I think Netflix should be more aggressive in creating own content (key to HBO's success). They are already moving in this direction but very slowly. Why doesn't Netflix outsource content (to film & journalism schools or just YouTube era amateurs) and stream it theirselves?
serge2k 4 days ago 2 replies      
Well, guess I have no choice but to subscribe to starz.

Oh wait, their network is pretty much irrelevant to me, I have watched a few of their movies on netflix and I like Torchwood (although parts of this season have sucked) and Spartacus. Other that I honestly couldn't care less and I won't be spending a dime on their second rate premium channel.

When does their deal with Disney and Sony expire? Can't imagine they would go with starz over netflix.

lchengify 4 days ago 0 replies      
"However, executives at Starz apparently concluded that they would lose even more money by giving consumers a reason to subscribe to Netflix instead of the cable channel."

s/subscribe to Netflix/download from bittorrent

The level of disconnect is shocking, however I doubt the Netflix guys are sweating it. No one is going cancel instant content for $8/mo based on Starz backing out.

bpeebles 4 days ago 2 replies      
I watch a goodly percentage of my content through Netflix instant, and I actively avoid the Starz provided content. It's never in HD, and even for that the quality varies from middling to almost poor. I've watched a couple of things from Starz, but mostly it's because I didn't notice until I had my heart set on watching it.

So, I don't really care if Netflix loses this. I hope it lets them be more aggressive at doing new deals to get movies.

AndrewDucker 3 days ago 1 reply      
What this makes clear is that we need standards.

If there was a standard way of getting video from the producer to the consumer then producers could either go through middle-men (like Netflix) or host the videos themselves, and it wouldn't matter at all to the viewer.

I want to sit in front of my TV (or iPad, or laptop), choose some video from the biggest menu in the history of mankind, and watch it. I have no interest in who produced it, or who shipped me the bits. And I shouldn't have to have.

rickdale 4 days ago 0 replies      
I have been critical of Netflix in the past for the quality of their streaming material. Honestly, I like Netflix most because if I see a Starz movie on my cable box I know I can watch it later on Netflix. I dont have Starz.

What I do have though is HBO. I pay for it in my cable bill, but they also let me stream 100% of their content using HBO GO. I admit HBO GO has a long way to go and isn't the online video store, but for quality shows to stream it is hard to beat.

This seems like a big blow for netflix; I thought the streaming material was consistently getting better, this will make it worse.

sixtofour 3 days ago 1 reply      
As long as Netflix keeps streaming Korean crime movies and Japanese dystopia movies and Scandinavian crime/thriller movies and The Third Man, I could give a rats ass about Starz.
kin 4 days ago 1 reply      
I'm assuming most people here have Netflix and do not have cable. Here is Starz' dilemma: Let's take all cable subscribers and consider them potential Starz customers. They can A. Pay $15/month to get Starz or B. Pay $8/month to get Netflix + Starz. They would all choose B.
Now let's take all the non-cable subscribers and call them potential Starz customers. Starz technically wants to keep this too, but they would lose out on all the customers in the 1st scenario, which make them more money. Thus, their unfortunate decision.

As consumers, we need to wage war against cable companies by not subscribing. Unfortunately, this is difficult to do considering quality sports programming is dominantly viewed via cable and the like.

invisiblefunnel 4 days ago 1 reply      
Starz was breaking new ground for cable tv content providers. Now they decide to return to the stone age? Of course their internal numbers might tell a different story, but this still seems shortsighted.
rglover 3 days ago 0 replies      
Not specifically Starz, but the idea about how to handle all of the different cable networks has been on my mind for awhile now. Here's a question for Comcast, Time Warner, and all of the other service providers out there: why don't you quit wasting time and compete with Netflix? The one thing cable and satellite companies have that Netflix doesn't is a large collection of long-standing relationships with networks. With a bit of work, cable/satellite providers could easily build a system just like Netflix.

Offer a web-based, a la carte service. All content is presented just like Netflix in a VOD package. Users sign up for an account and are given the option to pick out which networks they want to receive content from. Any network can be dropped/added whenever the user wants.

Worried about costs? Tier the service out: $29.99 a month gets you 10 networks, $49.99 gets you 20, and so on so forth. No real change to what's taking place now aside from customers being happy and being allowed to access content whenever they want, wherever they want.

Oh, and let's not forget the social layer that would fit beautifully on top of this. Allow users to easily post episodes/networks to Facebook/Twitter/etc. Facilitate a conversation between people watching a show. Each show page has a comments section where fans can discuss what they just watched/are watching.

Just the beginning of ideas for this. If you want to keep discussing (hint: I'd love to), shoot me an email: ryan@getconduit.com.

angryasian 4 days ago 2 replies      
Everyone is looking negatively at Starz, but I imagine there might be some outside pressures from the cable providers, Starz main source of revenue, to not continue. They are in a tough position. We've seen online services set back with this, and the recent Fox - hulu waiting period. I imagine these cable providers are not ready to give up yet.
yequalsx 4 days ago 0 replies      
I think that there is sufficient hatred for cable and satellite TV that people who are on the instant streaming only plan will pay for a DVD plan as well. Currently I am on streaming only but would rather pay for a DVD plan than for cable. It's much cheaper this way.

I think an unintended consequence of this is that Netflix ends up making more money.

aidenn0 3 days ago 0 replies      
"Because we've licensed so much other great content, Starz content is now down to about 8% of domestic Netflix subscribers' viewing. "

How about "Because all Sony films disappeared from Starz, Starz content is now down to about 8% of domestic Netflix subscribers' viewing." That would be more honest

bitsm 4 days ago 0 replies      
I wonder if this shot across Netflix's bow (which it likely is, way too early to definitively walk away), combined with Netflix's lower (base) digital subscription, will open the door to premium Netflix packages -- Starz as a premium add-on for $5/mo.

That might create tons of new opportunities network content bundles or al a carte show seasons, and mute the furor over the digital-only switch. For $15/mo. you might be able to get Netflix Streaming + Starz + Breaking Bad.

trocker 3 days ago 0 replies      
Take a look at this:


@bittermang : true, going back is painful and networks & cable operators are probably aware of this. But, as wsj puts it - investors of netflix are scared that its expenditure on the content deals will overtake their revenue and with netflix threatening the existence of so many network companies, netflix soon has to create its own content OR devise an extraordinary plan to sustain the network grudges against it.

It will be interesting to see individual networks starting up their own streaming services.

bobx11 3 days ago 0 replies      
Netflix streaming doesn't have waynes world and many of these movies I would love to watch... how much more do i have to pay to get this content legally? Who's up for making a grooveshark for movies? ;)
chaostheory 4 days ago 0 replies      
At least Netflix seems to have good PR on this occasion.
WayneDB 3 days ago 1 reply      
Astraweb, SabNZBd, Sickbeard, nzbmatrix. Never going back.
pbreit 4 days ago 0 replies      
Both companies are posturing. I expect a new deal in the end.
The Sugary Secret of Self-Control nytimes.com
221 points by gruseom  2 days ago   55 comments top 16
rkalla 2 days ago 1 reply      
A really excellent followup to the study that was linked to around here about 6 months ago that found out "willpower" is an exhaustible resource that needs to be managed throughout your day.

The book[1] this article is reviewing discusses learning to exercise your will power through little mini tasks throughout the day (sit up straight, don't curse, don't eat the whole cake, pickup your desk before going to lunch, etc.) as a means of strengthening that skill.

In their studies they found that employing little tasks like that actually made the willpower muscle (let's call it) stronger, leading to more control over your day.

As to "why do I care?" both studies show that people with more willpower generally end up happier with their lives.

This article does make an interesting point that people with ultimate willpower are not markedly happier than people with nominal amounts of it, so you don't necessarily need to train your willpower muscle to the point of entering the willpower olympics, just slightly stronger than you have now (assuming it is weakened) to enjoy a happier life.

[1] http://www.amazon.com/Willpower-Rediscovering-Greatest-Human...

sliverstorm 2 days ago 6 replies      
As far as food & overeating/unhealthy foods- I've learned you don't necessarily need self-control. You can stop caring instead. That's how I wound up after going hungry for months, and got used to it.

It's frighteningly effective. Right now, the last meal I remember was about 20 hours ago, and the last meal before that was another 20-24 ago. My stomach is aching, but it doesn't bother me.

Of course, this is not without problems. It basically means I have to consciously remember to feed myself enough to stay healthy. You could say I am now approaching the problem from the opposite direction.

blahedo 1 day ago 1 reply      
> (though not an indistinguishable beverage containing diet sweetener)

Really? Indistinguishable? This presumably doesn't invalidate their results, but a lot of people can distinguish the taste very well. This just seems like sloppiness on their part.

wpietri 2 days ago 0 replies      
Ooh, that's appealing. One of the authors, Roy Baumeister, gave this very interesting address on how cultures use genders differently: http://www.psy.fsu.edu/~baumeistertice/goodaboutmen.htm
dlytle 2 days ago 0 replies      
I've been wondering if there's a good way to test this on a personal basis using something like compounding interest, only with candy.

For example, keeping a bag of Reese's Pieces, and every consecutive (time period) you go without breaking goal X, you add (# of time periods) pieces of candy to a jar. Then at the end of the day, you cash out your jar.

So, longer periods of self control would result in a larger reward, and a physical/visual representation of your progress so far would help reinforce your motivation to remain on track.

Maybe if using candy, you get to eat half of what you'd put in immediately, and take advantage of the gradually escalating amount of sugar to help reinforce your willpower reserves?

Mostly just brainstorming here. :P

RobertHubert 2 days ago 1 reply      
From my experience or learning rather while studying psych I came to believe that as all successful or enjoyable actions are rewarded by dopamine (everything from grasping a spoon so smoking crack). Also, the more closely an action and its reward are pared to one-another in time the greater the strength of the feeling of "that was a good choice or Success!".
So it seems to follow that giving in sooner rather than later (for some potentially greater reward - delayed gratification) rewards the brain more and does so faster thus reinforcing that behavior model more and more successfully over and over.

Because delayed gratification is well, delayed, the chemical reinforcements in the brain don't happen (or happen in some other way that is more conscious rather than instantaneous without reflection). So for a child who has not developed the ability to delay gratification it becomes now or never and that mental reward structure can really hurt them later in life.
Thanks for posting.

zach 2 days ago 0 replies      
The application of this research on sports performance don't seem to have been explored much as far as I've found.

Which seems surprising to me seeing that Dr. Baumeister is a professor at Florida State. You'd think at least the ability of offensive linemen to stay completely still would have the football program interested in this research.

w1ntermute 2 days ago 2 replies      
> “Willpower”is filled with advice about what to do with your willpower. Build up its strength, the authors suggest, with small but regular exercises, like tidiness and good posture. Don't try to tame every bad habit at once.

This is the key. For example, instead of having a bunch of New Year's resolutions, come up with one resolution every month. Focus your (finite) willpower on making it into a habit, at which point it won't require willpower anymore. Next month, move onto another habit and do the same thing. You can drastically change your lifestyle in just 1 year by repeating this 12 times.

vishaldpatel 1 day ago 0 replies      
I can't comment on willpower over everything, but if it is about working out / doing chores / getting to work, I have a hack for you:

Well.. it isn't really a hack, but something to remind yourself every fucking time that you're stalling. All you need is enough motivation to do it for 5 minutes. FIVE MINUTES!

Thats enough motivation to basically start an activity and forget about everything else in the process, and getting on with it. Just start doing it... FIVE MINUTES!!!

tkahn6 1 day ago 1 reply      
Forgive me for my ignorance, but shouldn't "Ulysses had himself tied to the mast" be "Odysseus had himself tied to the mast"?

I haven't read Ulysses but I have read The Odyssey.

radu_floricica 1 day ago 0 replies      
Baumeister actually wrote a book about this?! It's definitely a must read. If you haven't picked up anything of his before - he's a very good writer, and one of the most "correct thinkers" I know. Not a shred of idea that's not justified by research.
schiptsov 1 day ago 1 reply      
Nonetheless, the very idea of self-­control has acquired a musty Victorian odor. - Rly? How about Eastern cultures who rely on self-control as a foundation for ages and ages? How about Art of War and other classic Chinese texts? How about The Book of Five Rings and other classics about mortal fights? What about Tibetan tradition which emphasizes self-control as a recruitment for self-transformation? Zen and other traditions based on Buddha's teachings? And, at last, what about Greek's 'Conquer yourself' maxim, which is the second most important one after 'Catch The Moment'? ^_^

It seems like modern journalist, same as modern hackers, are completely unaware, that all those self-help books, starting from Dale Carnegie's and Napoleon Hill's ones are mere compilations and oversimplifications of general western and some times eastern philosophy? But why, not everyone has a degree in Philosophy like the founder of this site. ^_^

The level of submissions and discussions on HN is somewhere below zero, after it became a huge mainstream site. Now being hacker is an ability to praise and admire some celebrities to silently down-vote people whom they can't appreciate or even understand.

Is there any new small community, with at least a little bit above mediocre level? ^_^

rytis 2 days ago 0 replies      
ok, so let's go back to this for example: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2908015 I am nothing).

As the author says: "I am nothing, and so I am finally free to be myself.".

Does being 'myself' mean I lack willpower and thus just ignore everything and everyone else and focus on myself?

Thing is, in my opinion having good self control wins over being myself (which I think is on the edge of being selfish).

I wonder what you guys think on the question 'being myself' vs 'self-control' ?

fractalcat 2 days ago 1 reply      
The NYT only found out about this now? O.o

Steve Pavlina (http://www.stevepavlina.com/) has some good stuff on training willpower (willpower is like D-Day, a huge violent bloody assault which was used to establish fortifications on the ground so that you didn't need to launch a huge violent bloody assault every time you wanted to get things done). Use willpower to build habits that will stay with you even when you have the mental energy of a marketroid.

mechnik 1 day ago 0 replies      
A short opinion piece that touches on the Baumeister's study:
Ask HN: Who is Hiring? (September 2011)
224 points by whoishiring  4 days ago   218 comments top 183
tptacek 4 days ago 3 replies      
Chicago, New York, San Francisco Bay Area

Matasano Security

Job Title: They look and before them is a pale horse, and its rider was named memory corruption, and hell followed close behind.

We're looking for people who can do Ruby. And C. And Python. And Java. And Scala. And asynchronous network code. And MySQL. And Redis. And C++. And MongoDB. And Riak. And Berkeley DB. And kernel drivers. And x86 assembly. And Objective C. And block ciphers. And digital signatures. And hash functions. And iOS development. And template metaprogramming. And ARM assembly. And MIPS assembly (yes really). And FIX protocol. And market order management systems. And Android systems programming. And Javascript. And Rails. And Django. And statistics. And linear algebra. And graph theory. And SAT solvers. And signal processing. And software radio. And soldering. And hardware debugging.

Knowing all that on day one would sure be nice, but it's enough for us that you (a) can code well in something and (b) want to do all that stuff.

We're looking for someone who could work at any of the largest or best software companies in the world, so we can work with them at all of the largest and best software companies in the world. Matasano Security is one of a small number of firms that specializes in software security. People contract us to beat the living shit out of their code before they ship it to customers. So a vindictive streak is helpful, but not required.

I wrote down everything I could think of about our hiring process here:


Full benefits. Market comp. Infinite free books from Amazon. Smart coworkers.

My contact information is in my profile.

kamens 4 days ago 1 reply      
Mountain View - Khan Academy
(full-timers and interns welcome year-round)

Our mission is to provide a world-class education to anyone, anywhere. We already have millions of students learning every month, and we're growing quickly.

Our students answer over a million math exercise problems per day, all generated by our open source exercise generation framework (http://github.com/khan/khan-exercises, http://ejohn.org/blog/khan-exercise-rewrite/), and Sal's videos have been viewed over 74MM times.

Working for Khan Academy is one of the highest educational impact positions you can imagine.

We're hiring all types of devs -- mobile, frontend, backend, whatever you want to call yourself. Big plans ahead.


jgrahamc 4 days ago 1 reply      
Remember that for all month round "Who's hiring?" there's my HN-inspired and recruiter free site UseTheSource: http://jobs.usethesource.com/
jedberg 4 days ago 0 replies      
Los Gatos / San Francisco Bay Area

I'm hiring for my team (although there are a ton of other jobs too)

The description is a little light on programming, but it really is more programming than sysadmining.

Netflix is a very open environment -- any engineer can push code to production pretty much any time with almost nothing in the way. There is no release manager or schedule. Maintaining reliability in this environment is a fun challenge!

Our team has three main goals:

* Write tools to help the other engineers know when it is safe to deploy.

* Create monitoring tools to detect issues before users do, fix them automatically if possible, and if not, contact the right people as quickly as possible.

* Take charge of outages and lead the calls until they are resolved and then follow up to make sure the root cause has been found and fixed.

So if this sounds like something interesting to you, you can send your resume to me at jedberg@netflix.com, and if you have any questions about the job, feel free to comment here (but don't email for questions, because I'd rather answer them here were everyone can see the answer).

Here's a discussion about the job on reddit:


Here is the full job description from the jobs site:

Netflix is the world's leading streaming video service, and our growth is accelerating. At Netflix, we are upgrading our cloud management tools and pushing the limits of using cloud-based technology, powering our explosive (and soon to be international) growth while presenting new challenges to build a reliable service with ephemeral commodity hardware in an engineer friendly environment..

As a member of the Cloud Solutions team, you will manage, support and operate the company's cloud environment. You will build tools to monitor, automatically fix and/or proactively notify service owners of problems before customers notice. You will drive incident resolution and follow through on finding root causes and getting them fixed.

You are an expert in distributed, highly concurrent, web-scale systems that are fault-tolerant and run 24x7 with unparalleled availability. You are a talented devops engineer and you thrive on managing and maintaining a reliable environment that others depend on.

You possess these qualities:

* You see the big picture delivering a 24x7 service

* You are effective working with multiple teams

* You have high standards in everything you do

* You can balance multiple tasks

You have these skills:

* Great communication skills, both verbal and written

* In-depth experience operating a 24x7 production environment

* Fluent in Linux: RedHat, CentOS, Fedora, Ubuntu

* Strong scripting and programming skills (we're going to ask you to write code on the whiteboard)

* Familiar with the Java platform, especially JVM configuration and JMX

* Knowledgeable in Linux packaging tools: rpm, yum, dpkg, apt

* Ability to quickly triage problems, determine root cause and drive resolution

* Ability to keep a cool head under pressure and effectively participate in system down crisis situations

You may even have these skills:

* Expertise in one or more of the following: Java, Python, Ruby, Perl, shell

* Prior experience with Amazon EC2/S3 or other cloud service providers

* Building systems deployment and service management automation tools

* Familiarity with large scale systems and methodologies

If this sounds interesting then we want to hear from you!

paulitex 4 days ago 0 replies      
Vancouver, BC, Canada. full post: https://www.matygo.com/careers

Matygo takes the traditional university classroom and explodes it across time, space, and social dimensions. We've reexamined the problems historically addressed by an LMS[1] and built a globally accessible free system for university instructors that makes learning more efficient, removes redundancies in teaching, builds social and content graphs, and has already gained traction internationally.

We're a small founding team (two, both technical, plus an HN-hired intern) with a huge ambition to revolutionize one of the largest and most important industries on earth. We are seeking a developer and a marketing communicator. These will be our key first hires and will be expected to lead teams in the near future.

By far, the most important qualification is culture fit.

See the story of William Kamkwanba from one of our first blog posts (http://blog.matygo.com/post/518849458/announcing-the-matygo-...) for our guiding philosophy.

Matygo is a GrowLab company (http://www.growlab.ca/), backed by top investors. We are still in the first quarter of the program - joining now means being able to go through most of the program including the trip to SF, Demo Day, Under the Radar conf, and meeting a ton of people.


- We play with fun tech: our backend is a custom framework in Scala and our web frontend is Sproutcore. We need someone who can rock them both: Javascript experience is essential, and Scala would be fantastic (but Java + some functional is sufficient).

- Very comfortable with all levels of the web stack. Can implement a feature front-to-back from our db (schema design, mysql) to the css and js that makes our app hum. Rest, http, and tcp understanding essential.

- Good software engineering skills including testing (e.g. unit vs. integration - when to use which?), system design, and agile techniques.


- Great communication skills: Will be responsible for everything from our A/B testing our landing page and social media to partner and customer engagement channels.

- Familiarity with lean startup and customer development approaches.

- Possess the ability, drive, and vision required to play a key part in developing and executing Matygo's user acquisition strategy. We go direct to instructors (and students, in the near future).

- Sales and presentation/public speaking experience would be fantastic.

For both positions:

- Creative. Bonus points for side hobbies like music, photography, design, or any other creative expression.

- Desire to work startup hours and understand the commitment, responsibility, and rewards that come with being a first employee of a high growth startup.

- See 'how to apply': https://www.matygo.com/careers


snowmaker 4 days ago 1 reply      
San Francisco, CA (H1B, INTERN no problem)

Scribd (social publishing, top 100 website, YC '06) is hiring talented hackers and other technical people for a broad range of technologies.

We've hired TWO people from these "Who is Hiring" threads ... it really works!!!

We're looking for people who want to work with:

* Ruby on Rails (we're the #2 largest rails site, after Twitter)

* Javascript

* iOS

* Machine Learning / Data mining kinds of problems

* Product managers, from web or mobile backgrounds

That said, we care way more about your personality and general hacking skills then what languages you've used so far, so if you haven't used these but want to break into mobile or web development, this could be a good opportunity for you.

We're well funded and have a really fun office environment (go-karts + a zipline!). We've got flexible hours, a very flat organizational structure that gives a lot of product ownership to engineers, and a really terrific team.

Last month we launched our first iPhone app, called "Float", which hopes to make reading a better experience. If you're a fan of reading apps like Instapaper and Reeder, you're already familiar with what we're doing. See http://tcrn.ch/pCwT4c for more.

Feel free to email me directly: jared@scribd.com


yummyfajitas 4 days ago 1 reply      
Pune, India - we are looking for a general purpose developer who is smart and gets things done.

We are building a search engine/knowledge representation system for fashion.


The best way to describe working here is to describe my last month: I built a document classifier (based on max entropy), a backbone.js app, fixed bugs in django-tyrant-cache and started building a NoSQL database which supports color-based queries ("find all the items with color similar to #df3426" [1]). Your job will be to do similar things.

(If all that stuff sounds out of your league, it sounded out of mine too, until I got started.) We use javascript, python/django, hadoop, and haskell, though we really don't care if you've never touched any of those technologies.

Contact info is in my profile. Send a link to your github or other work you've done if you are interested. Here is our github: https://github.com/styloot

[1] We aren't jumping on a silly NoSQL bandwagon. It's very easy to compute l^p distances on RGB records in your favorite SQL database, but RGB doesn't map very well to human perception of color.

Aloisius 4 days ago 0 replies      
San Francisco, CA

SeatMe is hiring! We're a cozy 12 person startup in downtown San Francisco. We're revolutionizing the restaurant industry and we need your help! We're in search of:

  * Objective-C engineers for iPad development
* Web developers (we're a Django shop)

How often do you get a chance to work at a tech startup where eating out can be written off as a tax-refundable business expense? Well not here, because our CEO would go to jail (and he's never going back to the big house), but we do work in an awesome intersection of technology and fine dining.

We offer a very competitive salary, benefits, moving costs and equity options for all full-time employees. H1B ok.

Apply online - http://www.seatme.com/jobs/

Questions - jobs@seatme.com

ghotli 4 days ago 0 replies      
Memphis, TN

American Roamer (http://www.americanroamer.com/)

We track all the cell phone coverage in the world and have been for 20 years. Our cellmaps product line has been used to build interactive coverage maps for carriers and an in-browser spatial analysis tool for comparing primarily wireless and cable datasets. We're a small company with a small engineering team but we're dealing with engineering at scale as our infrastructure is rendering and pushing out millions of map tiles a day.

Our business and products are growing rapidly and we're looking for someone with significant software engineering experience to come in as a mentor in the position of director of software development. You'll be a major player during our shift from a data company to a software company.

Some technologies we use that you may find interesting: aws, node.js, solr, mongodb, javascript, ruby, c, rails, chef, and others.

Email us at hr@americanroamer.com if you're interested.

ropiku 4 days ago 0 replies      
FreeAgent (Edinburgh, UK), intrepid developers of online accounting happiness

We're looking for developers to join a team of smart, friendly people who dig that work/life balance.

Ruby/Rails Engineer http://www.freeagentcentral.com/company/jobs/rubyrails-engin...

Senior Platform Engineer http://www.freeagentcentral.com/company/jobs/senior-platform...

Accounting Engineer http://www.freeagentcentral.com/company/jobs/accounting-engi...

Ruby/Rails Support Engineer http://www.freeagentcentral.com/company/jobs/rubyrails-engin...

Email us at jobs@freeagentcentral.com. We're also open to remote working for exceptional candidates (there's a couple of us who are spread throughout the UK).

3pt14159 4 days ago 0 replies      
Lots of companies are hiring in Toronto.
The Mantella companies are all pretty good: http://mantellavp.com/category/jobs/

And of course FreshBooks never stops hiring. I've heard they are also OK with contractors too:

I've heard the Jet Cooper is hiring a front end dev (though they don't normally post jobs):

Then there is The Working Group:

Nulayer is an awesome (funded) product company with hardcore ruby devs:

Unspace is looking for more devs (that's where ragenwald works):

Mozilla is hiring for their new, better-in-all-ways office, though you basically need to know someone that works there.

klochner 4 days ago 0 replies      
San Francisco, CA - in the Presidio

RentMineOnline (SeedCamp '08, FBFund '09)

We're profitable, growing, and looking for Rails developers, ideally people who are familiar with as much of the full web stack as possible. Come join our tight team and see an immediate impact from your work.

Our ideal candidate can: (ordered by decreasing importance)

  - add a new controller action + *decent* view code
- write AR model code with unit tests (we use rspec)
- write moderately complex SQL joins
- read/understand/refactor existing code
- code against a documented 3rd party api
- add an AJAX option to a controller action (jQuery)
- optimize an inefficient SQL query/table
- resolve a bad git merge
- know the likelihood of pulling a red ball out of an urn
(kidding, but prob/stats are important)
- research new tools/technologies
- edit server config files (nginx)
- administer ubuntu servers

timsally 4 days ago 0 replies      
Lexington/Boston/Cambridge, MA. Full time and summer internships.

I work at MIT Lincoln Laboratory (http://www.ll.mit.edu), a research and development center run by MIT that does work for the government. My group has about 20 people in it and does application security and reverse engineering. Knowledge of things like assembly, operating systems, and systems are pluses but not required. It's great if you have some experience in those things, but if you can code I want to talk to you. The pluses:

* Awesome workplace culture. We're a 9-5 shop, you pick your laptop, and you can order any books that you need.

* We provide a lot of training. We send you to conferences, including Blackhat and Defcon. We also reimburse tuition at MIT. Last semester my office mate took operating systems with Robert Morris.

* We sponsor relocation and have multiple positions we want to fill immediately.

You do need to be a US citizen and you will have to get a security clearance. I'm happy to talk to you about how the clearance process works and answer any questions you have! If you're local I'll buy you a cup of coffee while we talk it over. You really can't waste my time.

Email: tsally@mit.edu

benologist 4 days ago 0 replies      
Palermo, Buenos Aires, Argentina

Playtomic is casual gaming analytics and services. We're funded and ready to start scaling up our team.

Looking for .NET, Android and iOS developers.

If you want to work on a site that deals with a ridiculous volume of data generated by over 300,000 concurrent people playing the games we track (and that number's going to get a lot bigger this year!) then you're going to love this. We're using tons of C#, SQL Server, and a growing amount of MongoDB, and I'm open to using what you're best at if it works.

Android and iOS devs will be maintaining, further developing and supporting our APIs for those platforms, and should have completed a game or two. If you love making games you'll love working on Playtomic because it won't interfere too much.

ben at playtomic.com

squirrel 4 days ago 2 replies      
London (UK) and Boston (US). H1B

We're a 100-person financial-software firm committed to learning and improvement as well as great web software and agile development. Some of you may know us from our sponsorship of Hacker News meetups in London. We're hiring developers and other smart folks of many kinds. See https://dev.youdevise.com and http://www.timgroup.com/careers.

While we don't have remote workers, we do help successful candidates relocate to London or Boston including arranging visas where needed. For example, last year we hired HN readers from Denmark and the US, and we moved a Polish employee to Boston.

Note we recently changed our name from youDevise to TIMGroup but we're still the same folks!

lpolovets 4 days ago 0 replies      
Los Angeles or Bay Area or Shanghai preferred, but remote work is possible for exceptional candidates. Full-time only. If you're interested in working remotely, you must live in the U.S. H1B is okay.

Factual aims to be the place where people meet to share, improve, and mash-up data. Our vision is to be an awesome and affordable data provider, so that big companies, startups, and developers can focus on innovation instead of data acquisition.

We have a terrific team that is still fairly small, and an incredible CEO (he was the co-founder of Applied Semantics, which was sold to Google and became AdSense). Last year we raised a Series A from Andreessen-Horowitz, and our customers and partners include Facebook, SimpleGeo, and Newsweek. We have lots of challenging problems to work on at all layers of the stack: data cleaning and canonicalization, deduping, storage, serving, APIs, etc. If you love data, Factual is the place to be.

We currently have about half a dozen job openings, from data engineering to software engineering to system administration. For the software engineering position, you would ideally know Java, Clojure, and/or Ruby, and you'll get bonus points for experience with machine learning, NoSQL, algorithms, infrastructure, and/or Hadoop.

If you're interested in the Bay Area office, it's just starting up, so you'd have a significant influence on the culture there.

http://www.factual.com/jobs or you can email me personally at leo -at- factual.com. Thanks for reading!

jack7890 4 days ago 0 replies      
Web Engineer - SeatGeek - New York, NY

We're looking for a web engineer who is super-hungry and sees building web apps as more than just a job. We're a data-driven web app that's trying to use analytics and exceptional UX to making buying event tickets a wholly better experience. #Python #Ruby #PHP #MySQL #Redis #MongoDB #Javascript

Competitive comp, outstanding benefits, and a kick ass team. Only looking for folks in NYC.


kemayo 4 days ago 0 replies      
Really REMOTE. You don't even have to be in the USA.

deviantART (http://www.deviantart.com) wants developers. We're fully remote; there's no central office with a devteam located there. We expect all hires to be comfortable working in PHP, JavaScript, CSS, and SQL; we like our developers to be able to hack on any part of the site, rather than being frontend/backend specialists.

One exception to all that: there's an Infrastructure Engineer position which is located in Vancouver. It's C++/Java focused, and involves developing backend services used by the rest of the site.

We post information about our development process here sometimes: http://dt.deviantart.com/blog/
Apply here: http://deviantart.theresumator.com/apply?source=hn

harper 4 days ago 0 replies      
Chicago, IL - Obama for America (http://barackobama.com)

We are looking for QA, iOS, DBA, DevOps and Data Science engineers to join our department through November 2012 at our Chicago headquarters.

The Obama for America Technology department builds and maintains the software that powers the campaign's websites and interactive online presence. Our team's products support the campaign's efforts to inform voters, organize supporters and raise money.

Email us at techjobs@barackobama.com for more info.

revorad 1 day ago 0 replies      
Shopping search engine startup in London, UK (INTERN, REMOTE)

I'm building a shopping search engine, focused on helping people decide what to buy from hundreds of product options. This is not another cute mobisociofoto app. This is a business which solves a problem for a lot of people, and has a business model from day one.

I am rapidly building out the first version of the product as per my vision, but need help with various supporting tasks to speed up the development. The current stack is Ruby on Rails, MySQL, jQuery hosted on a VPS.

I need help with:

    Setting up new Linux servers, including VPS and AWS
Getting data feeds from various UK retailers and affiliate networks
Scraping sites which do not have data feeds
Building systems for speeding up manual editing and correction of product data
Building backend admin tools
Documenting everything in a wiki

You'll get real responsibility and real power to do things the way you think is right. I'm a solo founder, so I expect you to learn, teach and document infrastructure stuff to help me focus on the core product.

I expect a good standard of work, so you're not expected to work for free. You'll get paid in cash, books and gadgets. And beer :-)

If I like working with you, I will offer you a job down the line.

My email is in my profile. Please get in touch for more details and tell me about yourself.

Stealx 8 hours ago 0 replies      
Chicago(relocation assistance) - TrainSignal

Role: E-mail Marketing Specialist

We're looking for an e-mail marketing rockstar. Come manage all aspects of our e-mail marketing from creative design, testing to analytics. We want you to help us grow out our lead generation through e-mail marketing, personalization and targeted/scheduled/triggered e-mails.

Full benefits, 401k, will pay relocation costs to Chicago and a great salary!

More info & apply at:

calbear81 4 days ago 0 replies      
Mountain View, CA (Remote, H1B welcome) - Room 77

Are you a superstar coder? Prefer to work on cool new technology rather than me-too websites? Enjoy working with world-class engineers? Come join Room 77, where you can make a big impact as an early employee of a fast-paced startup.

Room 77 ( http://www.room77.com ) is building the world's best hotel search engine, featuring room-level information that cannot be found anywhere else. Combining state-of-the-art search engine technology with the latest developments in 3D rendering, we're building innovative products to perform fast meta search and compute virtual views out of each hotel room.

Quick facts:

- Founded in 2009; currently at approximately 20 employees

- Fully funded (Series B) by leading VCs and prominent investors, including founder of Expedia

- Based in Silicon Valley (downtown Mountain View, California, two blocks from Caltrain station)

- Winner of multiple awards including “Best Startup” at 2011 Launch conference and “Audience Favorite” at Web 2.0 Startup Expo

We're looking for software engineers who are smart and can roll up their sleeves to get things done. We don't care what programming language you've used before or what operating system you're familiar with, but we do need people with demonstrated passion for programming and problem solving, as well as hands-on attitude and hacker mentality. Years of programming experience is almost always required, and a degree in computer science helps, too (although the latter isn't a strict requirement). In case you're curious about our technology stack, we use primarily C++ / Javascript / Python / PHP / MySQL, with Ubuntu Linux and Amazon Web Services.

We'll offer you:

- Generous cash / equity package with significant upside potential

- Free lunch

- Medical, dental and vision benefits

- 401K match

- Travel agent ID card giving you industry insider discounts at many hotels and theme parks

- Relocation and immigration assistance, if needed

- A unique learning experience as part of a well-funded startup company

- A chance to make a big difference, and a fun place to work!

Join us and be part of the next revolution that'll change how people travel. Talk to us at jobs@room77.com

donmullen 4 days ago 0 replies      
Durham NC (main office) - REMOTE full-time and contractors

Relevance, Inc.



We are Clojure/core (http://clojure.com).

Relevance has been voted as one of the Best Places to Work in the Triangle (Triangle Business Journal). We have a fantastic work environment that includes 20% Fridays (work on open source, giving back to the community, or internal projects), and a fantastic benefits package.

Relevance is increasingly a virtual company and have many remote full-time developers around the country. We're now opening up the project manager positions to being remote as well.

Come work with some of the best Ruby/Rails and Clojure developers on solving interesting, hard problems that make a difference.

mkeblx 4 days ago 0 replies      
Madison, WI - (REMOTE possible)

Circuit - http://circuitapp.co

Github for hardware. Circuit is a social webapp for designing and building electronic projects (circuit boards), aimed at the exploding Maker/hobbyist market. We're going to disrupt hardware with a tool that makes things 10x easier & faster.

Programmer: We are looking for a passionate all-around programmer, experienced with creating advanced frontend interfaces as well as backend systems. Mainly would be doing a large amount of HTML5, Javascript, and using PHP (Cake) & MySQL on the backend. Big bonus points if you have a hardware background: microcontrollers, designing PCBs, tearing things apart, and familiarity with the Maker movement.

UI/UX Designer: You: experienced with the design of web applications with a strong emphasis on the UX to make a simple and clean interface. Also wireframe concepts, diagram workflows and create various assets needed for the application.

Interested, questions? jobs@circuitapp.co

modoc 4 days ago 0 replies      
Boston, MA (Greater Boston Area)

Java/Jboss/Linux: We're a profitable enterprise hosting startup seeking a Java/J2EE/JBoss developer who knows their way around Linux to assist with everything from code development, to support ticket handling, to troubleshooting, performance tuning, and more. You can work from home, but need to be in the Boston area for occasional face-to-faces (and we may be getting office space near Burlington at some point). We pay well, good benefits, cool team, lots of flexibility.

Sales/Marketing/Intern: We're also looking for a paid co-op/intern to work (possibly part time) on our sales, marketing, and account management efforts. Learn the ins and outs of working at a fast paced tech startup, and learn first hand how to sell to and deal with Fortune 500 executives. Research into sales opportunities and competitors, authoring white-papers and PR releases, "happiness" management for existing customers, and more. We're really looking for someone with some education or big ideas on how to effectively sell and market our company. We're all tech-heads and need another perspective. This could turn into high paid full time work, if the co-op proves to be valuable/productive.

Contact me: devon@sparkred.com with questions or resumes


justin 4 days ago 0 replies      
San Francisco, CA

Justin.tv/TwitchTV growing FAST - all teams hiring!

Want to work in the video game industry without having to work for a video game publisher? We are opening awesome new offices in downtown SF and are looking for passionate, entrepreneurial individuals to join us.

See our openings at http://www.twitch.tv/jobs

Or feel free to email me directly if you have questions.


RichardPrice 4 days ago 0 replies      
San Francisco, CA

Academia.edu is a platform for sharing research. Fundamentally we are trying to massively speed up the rate at which research whizzes around the world. For people who have just published a paper, we want that paper instantly to get into the hands of people. For people who are following research, we want our News Feed to deliver them the latest papers in their fields in real time. 

Right now we have over 550,000 academics signed up, with about 2,000 joining each day. Our monthly uniques are over 2 million. We have about 700,000 papers, with about 80,000 new papers being added per month. Amongst other technologies, we work with Rails, Redis, MongoDB, Beanstalkd, Varnish, Solr, PostgreSQL, Node.js and Memcached.

We're a small team of 7 people in San Francisco, backed by venture capital (Spark Ventures) and angel investors (Mark Shuttleworth, founder of Ubuntu, and Rupert Pennant-Rea, Chairman of the Economist, amongst others). We have a very engineering-focused culture. You can read more about our culture here http://academia.edu/hiring/culture and here http://academia.edu/hiring.

We have a very collaborative culture, where everyone discusses everything going on with the company: engineering, product, revenue, user growth, recruiting. We think that building a successful startup is hard enough that we need to leverage everyone's brain power.

We're very happy to handle the H1B application process for foreign applicants. For anyone interested to learn more, feel free to email me directly at richard [at] academia.edu

mattculbreth 4 days ago 1 reply      
Atlanta, GA

Venture-backed security software company. Two kinds of opportunities:

* Python, Cassandra, Hadoop. Big data, map reducing it to find interesting stuff related to security and the web.

* Python, Django, jQuery and JavaScript. Making really cool UIs to help people analyze all that big data we find.

jonbischke 4 days ago 0 replies      
San Francisco, CA (SOMA)

RG Labs is hiring: http://www.rglabsinc.com/jobs

We operate under the premise that the most important decisions we make are decisions about people (e.g., who to start a company with, who to hire, who to date/marry...)
We also feel like the Web is in its infancy in terms of helping us to make better decisions based on data and that this space could explode in coming years.

We're planning to be part of that explosion. :)

To hear more drop me a line directly at jonbischke at gmail or send us via our contact form. We'd love to tell you more.

nfriedly 4 days ago 1 reply      
San Mateo, CA

Sociable Labs is building the future of social commerce and we're looking for a few more engineers to help. A passion for learning, communication skills, and intellectual horsepower are more important to us than what you know.

Our product is essentially a more advanced version of facebook's social plugins. See a couple of examples at http://www.backcountry.com/ski "Ask your friends" section at bottom) and http://www.active.com/running/modesto-ca/the-cancer-awarenes... ("Connect with friends" section on the right)

We have a modular JavaScript front end that works with the Facebook platform and makes use of cutting edge technologies like localStorage and CORS (cross-domain ajax). Our back end is Java / Jetty / Postgres on Amazon EC2.

We offer competitive pay, great benefits (including the best PTO policy I've ever seen), and an enjoyable working environment.

More details about the company and the jobs here: http://www.sociablelabs.com/careers.htm

I work on the front-end but feel free to ask me questions about anything. If I don't know, I'll get you to the right person. Reply here or email nathan@[company site].com

jim-greer 4 days ago 0 replies      
Remote, San Francisco or Portland

Kongregate - leading social gaming portal for core gamers (14.5M monthly uniques, solidly profitable with revenue growing rapidly)

Android developers, Rails developers, Director of Virtual Goods, Director of Developer Relations

I'm the cofounder and CEO

http://www.kongregate.com/pages/jobs (or contact me - jim at kongregate)

Mc_Big_G 4 days ago 0 replies      
San Francisco, CA

VerticalResponse is hiring for a lot of great positions:

* Ruby on Rails Developers

* Ruby on Rails Architect

* Director of Product Management

* Search Engine Marketing (SEM) Analyst

* Senior QA Automation Engineer

* Online Marketing Specialist

* Product Manager

* Director of Acquisition Marketing

* Senior Financial Analyst

* Customer Relations Specialist

VR is an established and successful, privately held company in SF for the last 10 years. We work with Rails 3, Git, JQuery, Rspec, backbone.js, Haml, Sass, TDD, pair programming, agile development and other leading technologies (you don't need to have experience with all of these). I've been working there as an engineer for 7 months now and really enjoy it.

Occasional work from home is allowed if you have an important appointment or need to keep germs out of the office. We have happy hour on Fridays and the fridge is stocked with a wide variety of beer, so we'll sometimes end the day with a cold brew while we finish pairing on a difficult problem.

Apply here: http://jobvite.com/m?3RB34fwj

pitdesi 4 days ago 0 replies      
INTERN - looking for a PR/Marketing intern at http://feefighters.com

We're in Chicago, you don't have to be, though it would be preferred. We've had great luck hiring programming interns from HN and have already hired a social media/marketing intern. We could use a Public Relations intern too.

Here's the job description for the marketing intern that we already filled... We haven't written a PR intern description yet but it would be similar, but with more Public Relationsy stuff.

Press is a big part of what we do, for driving traffic to the site and SEO purposes. We have been able to get great press on our own (http://feefighters.com/press) and fired 2 different PR firms we were working with. Another aspect of PR is figuring out where we should be on the internet - responding in forums etc. Drop me a line if you're interested- email is in my profile.

megamark16 4 days ago 0 replies      
Kansas City, Missouri

Salva O'Renick

UX Developer

Responsibilities include front-end development for client projects and internal initiatives, researching new technologies, driving user experience across multiple platforms and maintaining existing applications. Proven work experience is required.

Position requirements include familiarity with current front-end coding frameworks and languages, standards based development, semantic markup, cross-browser support and degradation techniques, usability and accessibility standards, search engine optimization (SEO) and prototyping techniques. Applicants need to also be comfortable working with content management systems and in an agile development process.

Ideal candidates will have a passion for development, driving excellence and on continuous learning and knowledge sharing. Strong team work skills, self organization and good time management are required and expected. Strong skills in HTML, CSS, JavaScript (jQuery) are required.

Strong Plus


Javascript, jQuery

Web Design

Experience with Django templates


Experience working with a 960 grid system

Experience developing CMS templates

Experience with Django and Python development

Experience with common PHP frameworks (Expression Engine, Drupal, Wordpress)

GIT version control or any proficiency working in source control

Flash Animation

UX Practices (wire frames, user personas, information architecture)

Apply online here: http://www.uncommonsense.com/careers-form/

nanoanderson 4 days ago 0 replies      
New York, NY (Tribeca/South Village) -- New York Magazine (http://nymag.com/)

Tons of openings! Here are a few I think you'll find interesting. We're working on the web and in mobile, and as @khoi said: "IMHO NYMag.com is the best online print mag out there". All details listed at http://nymag.com/newyork/jobs/

* Senior Interaction Designer (design things like the Neighborhoods 2010 finder: http://nymag.com/realestate/neighborhoods/2010/65355/)

* UI Engineer (that's what I do!)

* IA/UX Designer

* CTO (seriously, can't believe people aren't chomping for this one)

* QA Engineer (we've only got one, come help him out!)

* Back-end Engineer (Java, working with Day/Adobe CQ, help feed data to the front-end kids like me!)

* Integrated Marketing Manager (for all the biz people on HN, we need your help too!)

Check the listings at http://nymag.com/newyork/jobs/ for details on who to contact and with what information.

ksowocki 3 days ago 0 replies      
New York NY (Union Square) - PART + FULL TIME PHP Devs @ Ignighter.com

Into startups? Are you a computer science major? Want to learn to run a startup from the best in the biz? Ignighter is hiring part time PHP developers. We'll pay you a handsome hourly rate, you'll work at our office right on Union Square Park in Manhattan, and since we're Techstars alumni, you'll get to meet the best folks in the startup-game when you attend their happy hours and other events with us. We offer a laid back but get-shit-done environment for you to spend 20 - 30 hrs/week solving the problem of social dating in the 21st century with us. "But what are the perks?", you ask! Well, every Friday at HQ we have Beer Thirty. We have an office stereo that 90% of the time is manned by someone with great taste in music. The other 10% of the time, it's manned by my partner, Dan. Sound too good to be true? It's not. Want social proof? Check us out @ http://techcrunch.com/2011/02/10/group-dating-startup-ignigh... , http://www.inc.com/30under30/2011/profile-adam-sachs-kevin-o... and http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/20/business/20ignite.html?_r=... then check out the open positions:



yanowitz 4 days ago 0 replies      
Anywhere, USA

Looking for a developer.

Sanebox, start up for handling email overload. Stack is Ruby, Rails, Mysql as well as interacting with IMAP, WebDav and EWS.

Full job post: http://blog.sanebox.com/post/9564725105/sanebox-is-looking-f...

wehriam 4 days ago 0 replies      
Distributed team, East Coast seeks Python generalists.

HiiDef, Inc is a consumer web company with two rapidly growing properties, http://flavors.me/ and http://goodsie.com

Help us solve the challenges that revolve around top notch user experiences. We're continually building new products and features, scaling infrastructure, and responding to our enthusiastic customers.

Team members have flexible hours, top notch hardware, and experienced, talented co-workers invested in their success. We pride ourselves on a results oriented, laid back culture and seek people who can thrive with an exceptional amount of independence.

Please contact johnwehr@hiidef.com - Looking forward to hearing from you!

akharris 4 days ago 0 replies      
New York - Tutorspree (YCW11 - www.tutorspree.com)

We're building the marketplace for local tutoring. We're backed by some of the best investors in the world.

Looking to hire an engineer (PhP) and a designer. More info here: http://startups.hackruiter.com/tutorspree

cadr 4 days ago 0 replies      
San Francisco, CA - Blurb

Blurb lets people tell their stories - currently through print-on-demand books, but increasingly through other venues.

We are both established and growing like mad (we were #47 on last year's Inc 500). We have a great group of people and a lot of fun challenges in the year ahead. We just launched a bevy of new products (our iPhone app is getting great reviews).

We play with fun tech: Ruby, Rails, SproutCore, git, RSpec, Cucumber, Haml, SASS, RabbitMQ, Puppet, Obj-C, and more.

We have great benefits, a great work/life balance, and we're in a great location close to the BART, CalTrain, and lots of food options.

We are currently hiring for many positions - front end, back end, API, Rails, iPhone, and more.


agotterer 4 days ago 0 replies      
New York, NY - Lot18 (http://www.lot18.com)

Hiring Python and PHP engineers. (http://www.lot18.com/careers#software_2)

We believe building a strong engineering culture is the key to building a great company and product. Part of that vision is working with the best tools, many of which are open source. Here's a taste: Python, PHP, Ruby, JavaScript, Tornado, Chef, git, Vagrant, MySQL, Linux (Ubuntu), Apache, nginx, HAProxy, Amazon Web Services, Varnish, memcached, Capistrano, RabbitMQ, jQuery and more! Every piece of code that gets released to production is reviewed first to ensure high code quality, coding standards and continued learning. Our engineering team is 10+ and growing.

veyron 4 days ago 0 replies      
Rockefeller Center NYC, onsite: #1 looking for #2

Bootstrapped prop ultra low latency trading firm (as opposed to a firm which originally had investors and later kicked them out), and I'm willing to cut significant equity. see http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2835656 for some discussion of what I do.

I'm not a traditional finance guy, and I'm definitely not looking for a banking drone. Most of those tasks are handled by cron anyway. Sanctity of weekends are preserved.
the ideal candidate: mastery, to the level of obsession, with C/Python/coreutils; insatiable curiosity; inquisitive to a fault; chutzpah to challenge every assumption and assertion; calm under pressure; and desire to be involved in every aspect of the business.

Windonauts need not apply.

Excited? intransigence123@gmail.com

jplewicke 4 days ago 0 replies      
Boston, MA (not remote)

MDT Advisers - We're a small quant investing fund working with:

- machine learning

- discrete optimization

- C

- large datasets

You can find a job description at http://www.mdtadvisers.com/careers/qea.jsp . The people, problems, and pay are good, and we aim for sane work-life balance(e.g. 45 hour weeks, private offices).

The team and management come from a technical background and don't micro-manage you. You also would have significant opportunity to work on your own research ideas and projects.

You can email me at jlewicke@mdtadvisers.com with any questions you have.

cristinacordova 4 days ago 0 replies      
Palo Alto, CA - Pulse - http://pulse.me

We're hiring iOS and Web Developers to join our 14-person team. Pulse is an award-winning application that makes it easy to consume news on mobile phones and tablets. Pulse has been named to the Apple's App Store Hall of Fame, chosen as an Android Editor's Choice app, selected as one of TIME's top 50 iPhone apps of 2011, and honored with the Apple Design Award.

We're looking for iOS developers to build out the Pulse iPhone and iPad applications, which support millions of users. Each of us is part engineer, hacker and product designer. This role requires existing experience with CocoaTouch and iOS programming. Specifically, we would love to hear about iOS applications you have worked on either professionally or in your free time.

We're looking for web developers with expertise in HTML/CSS/Javascript/JSON, extensive knowledge of server-side technologies such as Rails/Python/Django, experience developing web applications following W3C standards and taking into account cross-browser compatibility.

Send me an email so we can learn more about you at cc[at]alphonsolabs[dot]com

lamby 4 days ago 0 replies      
London, England.

Small (7) startup in the gaming space looking for software engineers. Are you the one? You are, if you:

* Love agile development, working independently on your own challenges, and together in a team on the bigger vision

* Are completely fluent in a scripting language such as Python, Perl, PHP or Ruby and have experience with web frameworks and the MVC concept. We don't require fluency in our current technology stack - great programmers can pick up new technologies.

* Have used MySQL or PostgreSQL extensively and you know your way around Apache, nginx or other server. It's a bonus if you have good JavaScript skills (we use jQuery)

* Get excited by the idea of scaling web apps to millions of users

* Are the best developer in your peer group, and want to be at a place where you are constantly
challenged and pushed to become better

* Get obsessed about the problem you're solving and don't stop until you've cracked it

* Have a thirst to learn new skills and technologies, and can pick things up easily

* Want to have fun building lots of new features and get stuff done

* Are full of positive energy, relish the thought of being part of a small, fast-moving team and enjoy brainstorming about new ideas

remi 4 days ago 0 replies      
Quebec City / Montreal, Quebec, Canada

We are looking for iOS, Android and other mobile developers, as well as Ruby/whatever backend and HTML/CSS/JavaScript frontend developers.

We are a team of passionate people working with large companies on exciting and innovative projects, as well as our own homemade products.

We are dedicated to building the best place to work at :)

We have a small website listing our available positions as well as showing pretty pictures of our environment: http://vie.mirego.com/en

famousactress 4 days ago 0 replies      
San Francisco, CA (REMOTE available for the right candidate)

Elation EMR ( http://www.elationemr.com )

We're working on incredibly smart and usable web based tools for physicians.

We're small (5 fulltime people) angel funded and have an incredible list of investors (http://www.elationemr.com/team/).

We're building with Python, Django, javascript, jQuery, Redis, MySQL, Java, and some other stuff. Particularly, we're really pushing the envelope when it comes to building rich javascript UIs in browser.

We're live in a number of practices, and there's still loads of really interesting things to build and make better!

We're looking add one or two more people to our incredible team.


Drop us a line!
- Phill

mncaudill 4 days ago 0 replies      
San Francisco, CA - Flickr

We recently had our 6 billionth photo uploaded and we (the engineers) just built and rolled-out the new geofences feature. Engineers really get to make a difference at Flickr on a daily basis. http://code.flickr.com/blog/2011/08/30/in-the-privacy-of-our... (That's my kitchen.)

We're hiring backend engineers, designers, and operations. Drop me a line at caudill -at- yahoo-inc.com if you're interested. I'd love to talk to you.

suhail 4 days ago 0 replies      
Mixpanel is hiring. We write Python, C, and serious amounts of Javascript.

You can find our jobs page at http://mixpanel.com/jobs/

We're moving into a new office today: http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4037/4426180253_21043a8ab9_b....

dialtone 4 days ago 0 replies      
San Francisco, CA. Full time.

I work at AdRoll (http://www.adroll.com), a rapidly growing, well-funded startup based in downtown San Francisco. We are adding to a small team of smart, driven and friendly people who are passionate about taking on new challenges. We are mainly a Python shop but we also work with Erlang and Java.

We are building the platform to bring the cutting edge of exchange advertising to the masses. We work with many great YC startups like Hipmunk, WePay, MixRank, Minomonster, Humble Bundle, Olark and many many more, we also work with other non-YC companies like Tom's Shoes and American Apparel and over 2000 active other advertisers. We've been on a rocket ship ride, and 2011 is looking even brighter.

Our infrastructure is currently hosted on EC2 across 3 regions and multiple availability zones in each region.

We come with all the good features of startups: full ownership of projects you feel passionate about, the laptop you want, a competitive set of benefits (medical/dental/vision, 401k, equity, paid time off, pool room, beer on tap, snacks and more), the need to solve new and interesting problems. We can sponsor relocation and even H1B if we love you.

We are looking for developers with: good experience and the ability to learn new things rapidly, love Open Source and take lots of initiative.

If you are awesome, you know ec2, hbase, hive, redis, cassandra, python, erlang and java it would be even better.

Email: valentino@adroll.com

erohead 4 days ago 0 replies      
inPulse (YCW11/Mountain View/Hardware-ish) seeks 1st full-time Android Dev [H1B, TN, Interns are good!)

Location: Mountain View, CA

Help us design and build intuitive and hackable wearable electronics. Our first product is inPulse, a $149 smartwatch. inPulse connects via Bluetooth to our smartphone (BB + Android) apps which acts as a conduit for watchapps, notifications and alerts.

We're looking for an experienced Android dev to help us improve our nascent app and spearhead integration with a cloud backend.

Almost everything is done in-house: architecture design, schematic/PCB layout, embedded drivers/firmware, Android and Blackberry app dev, industrial design...
We push updates out over the air, flinging code to watches worldwide.

You'd be our 3rd employee which comes with multi-% stock options and a competitive salary. Flex work schedules, constant BBQs and food/beer come with the territory.

To apply, please send examples of apps you've worked on and your role in those projects to eric AT getinpulse.com

healsdata 4 days ago 0 replies      
King of Prussia, Pennsylvania (near Philadelphia)

ReminderMedia currently has three open positions.

* Sys-Admin INTERN - Looking for someone with some exposure to Linux to work primarily on helping us convert to Puppet.

* Front-End Developer (We use jQuery and JsTestDriver)

* PHP Developer (We use Zend Framework, Doctrine)

For more information, check out http://remindermedia.com/careers/search/state/PA or email me directly at jcampbell@remindermedia.com

robobenjie 4 days ago 0 replies      
Mountain View - Anybots Inc

Take over the world with robots. We build telepresence robots and we are looking for all kinds of hackers. Robot code (especially streaming video, networking, BSD wifi), webcode (front end, back end), sourcing engineer (finding cheaper, better components for the next version).

We are a small team with lots of freedom. We use Python, Node.js, along with C, C++, javascript.

Write to us at jobs@anybots.com and include a link to cool projects you have done.

nikibeth 4 days ago 0 replies      
Raleigh, NC - AgileZen (http://agilezen.com)

Internet Marketing Specialist for the AgileZen product at Rally Software

We're looking for someone awesome to run all the marketing activities for our product. This role will have a lot of variety and freedom, so we need someone who can wear a lot of hats and is a self-starter. The responsibilities for this position will include: guiding changes to our current marketing website, running pay-per-click campaigns, communicating with customers via email, spreading the word about the product using social media, and organize materials for conferences and events.

We're a small team that likes to work hard, but have fun too. We have a keg in the office and we play video games to blow off steam, so if this environment seems like a good fit for you, check out the full job description (http://t.co/T2WJRjw) and apply!

dabent 3 days ago 0 replies      
Santa Monica (Los Angeles Area), California

I started at TRUECar this week and just love it. TRUECar is growing fast and is looking for Python/Django and Java developers.

They're big enough to avoid the perils of early-stage startups, but certainly small enough to be nothing like a BigCo. Enjoy great perks like 100% paid family medical, gym membership reimbursement, equity and offices that are just blocks from the beach (my chair has a beach view, here's a shot from the window nearby: http://picplz.com/user/dabent/pic/tpc4v/).

If you're interested, send an email to the address in my profile.

asanwal 4 days ago 0 replies      
New York, NY (full-time)

CB Insights / Chubbybrain (cbinsights.com | chubbybrain.com)

We're National Science Foundation backed and looking for 3 positions.

1. Front-end web developer - must love data visualizations

2. Machine learning expert - find signals on private company health in a variety of unstructured, semi-structured and structure info sources

3. Data journalist - If you have a way with words and a way with data..

Ping me (Anand) directly at asanwal@cbinsights.com

drp 4 days ago 0 replies      
San Francisco, CA

HotPads - http://hotpads.com/pages/jobs.htm

We're hiring software engineers and web user interface developers to work in our new office in San Francisco's Mission District. We're a small, lively company running a popular map-based housing search engine, so we need driven individuals who want make an impact on the way people find housing.


dan_manges 4 days ago 0 replies      
Chicago, IL - Braintree (http://www.braintreepayments.com)

We mostly work with Ruby/Rails. Our team is talented, our practices are collaborative (pairing, agile), we work on challenging problems (high availability, quality of service, scaling, security), and our devs have 10% time to work on whatever they want. Developers use and love our product. Although we mostly work with Ruby, we also work with Python, Node, Java, .NET, PHP, and Perl. Braintree is profitable, you'll have standard benefits (health/dental/vision), 401k match, ample vacation, an above market salary, and stock options.

More about our people, practices, and software: http://www.braintreepayments.com/inside-braintree/how-we-bui...

Apply at http://www.braintreepayments.com/braintree-careers or email me (address in profile).

DGutmann 1 day ago 0 replies      
Cambridge UK
B2B (stealth) start-up is looking for Technical Co-Founder

I'm a Postdoc at the University of Cambridge. I work extremely hard and am interested in product and business development. I'm looking for a hands-on technical co-founder to help me build an MVP and successful company.

The idea is a web-based platform that puts the 21st century into market research by utilising smartphone applications and their developer communities.

I've pitched the idea to industry experts and received great feedback. I've since been accepted into an incubator and need to find a second developer to join me (salaries committed for one year plus founder equity).

If you're a self-motivated developer who likes the idea of disrupting a large market then please get in contact, whatever your experience and preferred technologies.

Get in touch - d.gutmann@pojonow.com

jbapple 4 days ago 0 replies      
Eugene, Oregon, internship possible, noremote, H1B applicants welcome.

On Time Systems is a small company that develops scheduling, routing, and other AI applications. We're currently looking for software engineers to work on Green Driver (a smartphone app that uses real-time data from traffic signals to help drivers find the fastest route (http://imagreendriver.com)) and ACFP, the flight planning system used by the US Air Force for routing non-combat flights. We're looking especially for engineers with a strong algorithmic background.

We have some really nice benefits, including (in addition to the usual ones) sabbaticals, massages, your own office with a window, and 100% tuition reimbursement (including flight school if you work on our flight planning software). We used to be a research lab at the University of Oregon, and the atmosphere maintains some of the academic feel.

See http://www.otsys.com/newpages/employment.php for more details. Send your resume to jobs+hackernews@otsys.com

bilalhusain 4 days ago 0 replies      
New Delhi, India; onsite developers

Looking for passionate developers and designers to work with insanely talented people on relatively simpler problems.


* node/express developer (priority o/w: scala/haskell/erlang/ocaml > python/ruby/perl > java/c# in addition to exposure to good web frameworks like spring, rails, django, lift. Strictly, no f#. British php will be considered!)

* optionally, mongodb skills


* proficient in css3/html5/backbonejs development

* optionally, comfortable with coffeescript

location: New Delhi / Gurgaon, India

contact: bilal@bilalhusain.com


* the candidate has to be physically present for a coding session in Delhi NCR

* developer starts with Rs.40K/month salary

arupchak 4 days ago 0 replies      
Amazon.com - Seattle WA - No remote, but willing to relocate based on experience. H1B is possible, again, depending on experience.

I am looking for a strong Systems Engineer for our growing team. We like to describe our organization as a Startup within Amazon, as our part of the business is still growing rapidly and our engineers can have a lot of influence on where the product goes. For this role in particular, I am looking for someone with a strong infrastructure/hardware bias to help us make the changes we need to scale our business over the next ten years without having to lift a finger. We are moving more and more of our applications and services to AWS technologies and we are looking for someone to help lead this initiative.

Job description below. Contact me at ${hn_username}@gmail.com if you have any questions.

The Amazon Marketplace team is looking for a great Systems Support Engineer to keep our systems running and our customers happy. You should be comfortable in a Linux environment, be able to automate everything you did yesterday, and willing to troubleshoot and solve new problems on a daily basis. Come join one of the fastest growing teams within Amazon.


-Maintain stability and performance of our systems via tickets during business hours oncall shifts

-Diagnose and troubleshoot new production issues that affect our customers

-Create and maintain standard operating procedure documents for new issues identified

-Automate operational tasks to assist with our scaling needs


-Proficiency in a scripting language (Ruby, Perl, Python, Shell)

-Familiar with SQL databases

-Comfortable navigating a Linux environment

-Basic understanding of web application architectures

Bonus points:

-Written a Rails application

-Deep knowledge of Oracle databases

-Troubleshooting experience

-Ticketing experience

-Worked with AWS EC2 or RDS

sahillavingia 4 days ago 0 replies      
San Francisco Bay Area, CA - Gumroad

We want to make selling stuff online as easy as sharing a link. Kind of like Square, but for digital goods.

Probably the earliest stage startup on here. It's just me. You'll be super involved, have a ton of impact, and will have a sizable chunk of the company. You'll also have face-time with all of our awesome investors. I'll help you start your next company when you're ready to take the leap for yourself.

Contact me using the email in my profile if you're interested.

rw 4 days ago 0 replies      
New York, NY (in NoHo on Broadway). Full time and internships.


We're a new type of in-house incubator: we prototype startups by building and launching an MVP every 6-8 weeks.

This is like startup boot-camp. Come hack with us on amazing projects, learn everything there is to know about building and launching products and starting companies, all without the painful early-startup salary.

One of our upcoming field trips is an all-day visit to MIT's Media Lab.

The lab started in February of this year, and now has five awesome developers (hailing from Columbia, ITP, NYC Resistor, and more). We're looking to fill positions #6 and #7.

Show us your projects: we love to see an entrepreneurial streak and a diversity of experience.

Our one steadfast requirement is that we definitely need you to know Rails.

Email me at rw@rwinslow.com if this appeals to you!

derwiki 4 days ago 0 replies      
San Francisco, fulltime/internships/H1B


At Causes, use your programming powers to help nonprofits effect change on the world! Ruby on Rails + jQuery stack, 10-ish person engineering team, the usual startup perks (catering, snacks, soda, etc), gym membership reimbursement, open source contributions encouraged:

https://github.com/causes/suggestomatic -- item based collaborative filter

https://github.com/causes/buffet -- distributed testing framework for Ruby

https://github.com/causes/mock_redis -- mock redis Ruby gem

Apply through the site or adam@causes.com if interested!

jerryr 4 days ago 0 replies      
San Francisco, CA (25 Kearny St) - MindTribe Product Engineering, Inc.

Hi, I'm MindTribe's director of Software Engineering. I'm searching for people who enjoy learning and making. We're a small company, and I'm looking for people with whom I would personally like to work and who want to work with me.

Here are the tools I use regularly: The C programming language (specifically ISO/IEC 9899:1990); Eclipse, Make, Subversion, Git, Python; Linux, Embedded Linux, Android, iOS; ARM processors (TI OMAP, TI Stellaris, NXP LPC); Atmel AVR/AVR32, Microchip PIC, TI MSP430, Cypress PSoC

Here is what I enjoy doing at work: Writing embedded software that runs on cool hardware; Figuring out how to apply agile techniques such as test-driven development to embedded product development; Reducing regressions and supporting customer development with agile techniques; Developing embedded libraries for things like USB, TCP/IP, graphics displays, sprites, fonts, encryption, etc.; Having long, dorky conversations with coworkers about programming languages, physics, estimating Facebook's relative revenue distribution between advertising and games, etc.

Here is what I enjoy doing outside of work: Hiking, walking around San Francisco; Pseudonymous humor blogging; Cooking and baking; Photography; Reading. Recently: “Test Driven Development for Embedded C”, “The Clean Coder”, “The Four Steps to the Epiphany”, “The Art of Racing in the Rain”, “Norwegian Wood”, and "The Mind's Eye".

You can see examples of how I've applied my tools and passion here: http://mindtribe.com/portfolio/

You don't have to use the same tools and you don't have to enjoy the same things. But if you're excited about similar stuff, drop me a line at hn@mindtribe.com to let me know.

We're also hiring Electrical and Mechanical engineers!

kungfooey 4 days ago 0 replies      
Nashville, TN


Need a Senior Python developer to both maintain the existing project and help guide the company from the tech side. Experience with Ruby or PHP would be great! More job description here: http://bit.ly/qxcZCU

Email Chuck Bryant, chuck dot bryant at borderjump.com

dmuino 4 days ago 0 replies      
Los Gatos, CA - Netflix

I'm looking for a frontend developer for my team. Your main job would be to help develop a very interactive infrastructure monitoring system. We have lots and lots of metrics about our systems. We'd like to be able to present them in a useful format, make it easy to troubleshoot production issues, aggregate on different dimensions, slice and dice them, zoom in on interesting events, expand clusters into individual nodes, save your work into your custom dashboard, etc.

I'm mostly looking for a strong developer who knows javascript well (or a language that compiles to javascript) and is familiar with tools or frameworks that will make your job easier (think Backbone, Knockoutjs, Spine, JavascriptMVC, etc.).

Netflix is a great environment for engineers where the emphasis is on agility and there are no rules about what tools or technologies you use to get your job done. You know what's best and we trust you.

If this sounds interesting to you please email me at dmuino @ netflix.com

kabir_h 4 days ago 0 replies      
Somerville, MA and London - The Echo Nest

Echo Nest is a music intelligence company that powers music apps with our API, and services like Echoprint, our open source music fingerprinter. Our data powers apps for the BBC and MTV and music services you've used. We've got a killer engineering culture, well-stocked beer fridge and you'll be able to shape the future of music.

App Systems Engineer - London Office


Junior Engineering Intern

Music Information Retrieval Scientist

QA Manager

Senior Engineer

Web Developer - London Office


scootklein 4 days ago 0 replies      
Durham NC


Job Title: Full-stack RoR developer

Looking for full-stack ruby on rails developers to join our main office in Durham, North Carolina. Job responsibilities include work on our main web property (http://www.reverbnation.com) as well as looking into mobile web technologies (html5, css, js) and bridge technologies for native mobile apps (PhoneGap). Development organization currently has 12 members, up from 6 just 11 months ago.

Company is doing really well financially, 43 staff members up from 20 just 11 months ago. Definitely long on money and short on resources at this point.

Contact info is in my profile.

jasonlbaptiste 4 days ago 0 replies      
Onswipe - NYC

Come work with myself, @markbao, and some of the best engineers in the world working on touch, JS, nodejs, and HTML5.

Openings here: http://blog.onswipe.com/jobs

Short list of what we're looking for:

- Front end JS devs (hiring 2)
- Back end node, php, and mongo knowledge (hiring 1)

martian 4 days ago 0 replies      
San Francisco - Thumbtack

Engineers wanted. We use Python and PHP. Interesting problems include machine learning and classification, website scaling, in-house analytics and experimenting, and making a beautiful and engaging user experience. Other technologies we use are Mongo, Postgres and Postgis, Puppet, EC2 and other Amazone Web Services, Twilio.

Our product helps people find and book local services -- everything from handymen and cleaners to wedding DJs and French lessons. If you've worked with small businesses before, bonus points.

Email chris at thumbtack if you have any questions.


PS: we have an awesome office in SOMA with a chef who cooks for us every day.

alanpeabody 4 days ago 0 replies      
Draker Labs (http://drakerlabs.com/company/jobs), Burlington, VT (REMOTE okay for some positions and candidates)

Current openings include :

* QA engineer

* Web application architect

* Web development team lead

* Business technical analyst

Near term future openings include :

* Web application developers (REMOTE okay for exceptional candidates)

* QA engineers


* Dev Ops

What is Draker?

Our CEO says: “Draker provides data acquisition, monitoring and control of large scale solar plants. Draker has achieved 300+% growth in the North American commercial solar market over the past two years, and expects continued exponential growth from expansion into the utility scale market.”

Our company goal is to make solar a viable option in the US and world wide, and to make enough money to support ourselves doing it.

As a developer I consider us the NewRelic/GA of PV monitoring. We are facing challenges such as scaling, storing and processing an ever increasing quantity of data, creating a compelling and dynamic user experience for a complex problem, and working with real time data.

This job means something and most people are here to help make that difference. This is an industry that matters and a unique opportunity.

Some of the technologies we are using:
Ruby, Rails 3, SASS, Resque, Backbone, jQuery

willowgarage 4 days ago 0 replies      
Palo Alto, CA (willing to consider relocation or remote work) http://suitabletech.com

Telepresence Robotics

Suitable Technologies is a startup working to create an innovative new product for something called "remote presence." (Another common term is "robotic telepresence.")

Our first product, in development now, is similar to video chat on a computer you can drive around. Unlike videoconferencing, you're not stuck to a wall or desk. It becomes your physical presence, anywhere in the world, with the freedom to move and interact with people as if you were there. Our technology has already been seen by millions of people, and we think the potential impact is substantial.

We're looking for great engineers and designers. We need help in C++, multimedia, web frontend and backend, UI/UX design, electrical, networking, and more. We think this could be a unique opportunity for someone with experience in web or mobile to work on something a little different.

We have funding and offer competitive compensation.

More information is available on our site:


bentlegen 4 days ago 0 replies      
San Francisco, CA


We're still only 20 people, so it's a terrific time to join our team, especially if you're interested in scaling problems (we serve over 500m uniques per month) or writing high performance third-party JavaScript (our commenting widget is installed on hundreds of thousands of websites).

More here: http://disqus.com/jobs

jmlacoda 4 days ago 1 reply      
Philadelphia, PA

Lacoda is building a loan management web application and having an awesome time doing it. Our team is currently 3 people: 1 Pythoner, 1 JavaScripter and 1 lending guru. We need 2 more programmers to join our team!

We're looking for a Python programmer and a JavaScript programmer.

We're using Google App Engine for our backend and Backbone.js for our frontend.

Send an email to josh@lacoda.com and let's get to work!

eekfuh 4 days ago 0 replies      
Salt Lake City, Utah - Solera Networks

We are a vc-funded network security company. We have a great engineering team, in an almost all engineering company (80% are engineers). We have the need for some great people, with a wide range of talent. We have needs in kernel development, systems code (C/C++), coders to handle large volumes of data (100's of tB) all the way to web interface development.

Full benefits. Lots of vacation. Great people to spend your day with.
(Also we love Zombies)

yoavlurie 4 days ago 1 reply      
Boulder, CO -- TechStars company Simple Energy -- http://www.simpleenergy.com

4 Positions: http://www.simpleenergy.com/jobs

* Product Manager (gaming experience pref'd)

* Front-End Engineer

* Back-End Engineer

* SysAdmin/DevOps

Simple Energy is making saving energy social, fun, and simple. We change how millions of people save energy by changing how utilities engage their customers. We take real energy data and create social games and contests that drive people to save energy. You could be the fifth member of a funded startup that Mashable recently named one of "8 Startups that are Changing the World." http://mashable.com/2011/08/19/startups-for-good/

* Generous moving benefits to beautiful Boulder, CO

* Awesome Mac setup

* Sweet office w/ standup desks overlooking a creek

* Every new employee saves enough energy to power 1,000 homes

200902 4 days ago 0 replies      
New York, NY

Job Title: Developer | Rails / Java / XP

Cyrus Innovation (www.cyrusinnovation.com) is a small (~30 people) NYC-based Agile development consulting firm. As pioneers in Agile methodology, we pride ourselves on being named one of Inc 5000's fastest growing companies for three consecutive years. We embrace the latest Agile practices, open source tools, and strive for continuous process improvement. We provide XP teams on demand to both start-ups and enterprise organizations. We are looking for creative individuals to join our community who value team work and strive to work with a company that values quality software as much as you.

Cyrus will bring to you:
- the chance to create complex software solutions you will be proud of
- the opportunity to work alongside bright, analytical, and experienced programmers
- a true XP environment: TDD, pair programming, continuous integration, and lightweight design
- direct interaction with clients to gather and analyze business requirements
- experience and collaboration on all levels of software development from design to implementation
- experience working with Java, Ruby, Groovy, Scala, and Javascript
- an opportunity to have a real voice in critical design decisions

You will enjoy:
- a week-long training course by Jim Shore attended by the entire company
- a true 40-hour work week with no / minimal travel
- an energized, yet casual work environment
- full benefits including medical, dental, vision, 401(k) matching
- an efficient organization where your opinion really matters
- an annual personal budget and paid time off for professional development (conferences, workshops, etc.)
- weekly kaizen (process improvement) sessions
- knowledge-sharing brown bag sessions
- daily stand ups
- a company wide hackfest at our quarterly company meeting

You will bring:
- a true, demonstrable passion for coding, both in and out of the office
- a team oriented work demeanor and a desire for both teaching and learning
- an outside the box approach to problem-solving
- a strong enthusiasm and knowledge for XP
- the desire and ability to learn new technologies quickly
- experience with Object Oriented programming
- knowledge of design patterns and refactoring

At Cyrus, we strive to continuously enhance our day-to-day methods that keep us at the top of our game and help everyone improve on what they already do so well. If you're a talented and hard-working developer who is enthusiastic about Agile, we would love to hear from you. We are serious about our commitment to our employees and invite you to join our team.

If you are interested in learning more or would like to apply for a position, send an email to Marc Rosenberg at mrosenberg@cyrusinnovation.com

bwb 3 days ago 0 replies      
Remote (Anywhere In The World)

Job 1: Lead Backend Developer (Perl (Moose) + XML-API)

WebPub is a 14 month old startup working to build an App store for websites. We have built a Perl backend that allows us to manage a wide variety of files on top of a FTP layer, and then on top of that built an xml-api so that developers can make use of it as well as our applications. Currently we are working on building out the marketplace so that we can build economies and eco-systems around specific scripts like WordPress, Magento, Drupal so that designers/developers can sell their work, and end users can easily buy and install themes and add-ons, plus install them with just 1 click.

If interested email me at Ben@Webpub.com. We are going to make the web easier and more secure.

Job 2, 3 and 4:
Title: Web Hosting Tech Support
Site5.com is looking for level 2 and 3 tech support to provide support to end users for cPanel web hosting. This requires a through knowledge of cPanel, hosting topics, English, and customer service.
*Email -> Careers@Site5.com

camtarn 4 days ago 0 replies      
Edinburgh, UK - FULL-TIME, INTERN positions available

Amazon Development Centre Scotland are looking for candidates for full-time, intern and student summer positions.


We're settling into our shiny new office in the city centre (Waverley Gate, right next to the station) and just added a Dreamcast with House of the Dead to our game room, alongside the Wii, Xbox and SNES. Last month we held TechMeetup Edinburgh here, which was really fun :)


jackfoxy 4 days ago 0 replies      
Concord, CA.


.NET, C#, SQL Server, javascript, jquery

Big app (it does a lot). You must do server side, client side, and SQL. Web forms, but we only use the parts of web forms that work. You do the rest of client side stuff in what works (often "real" AJAX, not the MS interpretation).

This is a contract position. Min 6 months, probably longer. Send resume and requirements jofox at corelogic dot com.

jason_tko 3 days ago 0 replies      
Tokyo, Japan

MakeLeaps - On a mission to improve small business owners lives.

We're currently looking for Python/Django programmers. We're looking for interns as well.

Telecommuters are fine. Starting off with contract, moving to permanent positions.

Perks: We run the local Hacker News meetups in Tokyo, where you may join for free and drink as much beer as you like. If you do very well, there's also potential for you to be moved to Japan to work from our office in Tokyo.

Please apply to jobs at makeleaps.com.

alain94040 4 days ago 0 replies      
Paris, France

EVE makes hardware emulation boxes that let hardware engineers debug their Verilog RTL and embedded developers boot Linux on new chips before tape-out.

Looking for C++ developer with some digital circuit experience, EECS background preferred.

Contact alain at eve-team dot com.

hitch22 4 days ago 0 replies      
Palo Alto, CA - Rails Developer (CTO /co-founder?) (local preferred, but will consider other U.S.)

Stealth start-up focused on a consumer finance vertical that's very large like Mint.com's, but distinctly different and, we believe, more interesting / subject to disruption. The initial site/app is nearly completed and we're close to launch. Our non-local lead developer, pursuant to known prior commitment, became CTO at a local (for him) start-up in an unrelated area. We're looking for an experienced rails developer immediately to fill his shoes to take company to launch and beyond. Ideally, this role would lead to co-founder / CTO role. Looking for very strong rails / jQuery / MySQL expertise / experience, test-driven development style and excitement about transforming an industry in a way that helps a lot of people. If interested, please inquire at workfor@finpicture.com.

jhull 4 days ago 0 replies      
Boston, MA (Ft Point Channel / Innovation District)

Buzzient Inc.

Harvests, analyzes and integrates social media data with enterprise applications. We are a SaaS application that also has the ability to push data to other apps to allow social customer service, erp and lead gen to happen (in enterprise apps such as Salesforce, Oracle CRM, Siebel, Interactive Intelligence)

We are a Python, jQuery, Linux shop and use the following libs and tools for dev: SQLAlchemy, Boto, Werkzeug, Fabric, Buildbot, Selenium, Git, JIRA, SVN. Developers work on DevOps, scrapers, NLP algorithms, testing tools and our front end. You get to do it all. The following skill set is also recommended http://i.imgur.com/wBhlk.gif

Our Dev Team is less than 5 FT and we are looking to grow. See our job posting here http://bit.ly/pbvtFe

neiljohnson 4 days ago 0 replies      

OpenMarket are looking for Java developers to work on mobile messaging/payments platforms.

We offer hard problems, lots of autonomy, an engineering driven culture and full control over product delivery from design through to deployment.

See http://www.mxtelecom.com/uk/careers/roles/softdev for more details or contact me directly at neil.johnson //at// openmarket.com

msales 4 days ago 0 replies      
Karlsruhe, Germany - mSALES GmbH - Ruby Developer

We're looking for a Ruby Developer (preferably on site, german speaking)

http://www.msales.com/jobs/ruby-developer (in German)

http://goo.gl/DeBp1 (the above in English)

belokor 3 days ago 1 reply      
San Francisco, CA
Venuetastic (YC W11) is hiring a full-time generalist engineer (INTERN, REMOTE)! (http://venuetastic.com/jobs)

Remember when the travel industry was stuck in the olden times but now you buy all of your plane tickets online? We're doing the same thing for the event industry and would love to have you join us!

The job posting is reproduced below in its entirety but we care most about your personality, being sharp and having a "getting things done" attitude.
If you're intrigued, get in touch via jobs@venuetastic.com

We're looking for a team member who can work across the full stack - frontend, backend, or sysadmin work. Encouraging knowledge transfer is a high priority for us: we believe that any engineer should be able to patch a hole in any part of our stack.

You'll be involved as much or as little in the product discussions as you'd like to be, and work with a team that believes in moving quickly, pushing often, and wasting as little time as possible.

Technologies we use include: Ruby, PostgreSQL, Git, Solr, Heroku + EC2, and a bit of MongoDB. Familiarity with any or all of these is a plus but not required - experience with equivalent technologies will be fine.

All positions offer competitive compensation, generous equity packages, healthcare, flexible hours, a fun team dynamic and beautiful 28th floor views.

carols10cents 4 days ago 0 replies      
Pittsburgh, PA - Careerimp (Resunate.com)

I'm a dev here, feel free to email me (carol at careerimp.com) if you have any questions.

Official job posting:

Fulltime Rails Dev

Careerimp is changing job searching, making it possible for jobseekers to gain insights into their application as they apply. Right now, we enable users to create a damn good resume with Resunate (resunate.com).

We code in Ruby on Rails and jQuery. We expect you to have a very strong foundation in programming and several projects behind you in developing web software. You should be someone who hates bugs to be found in your code, so you test it like crazy before deploying it. You are disciplined in development and can contribute in our transition to a more disciplined development culture. You like working with a designer to help style your features, and have a good eye for usability and aesthetics. You like to take skeletal user stories and flesh out the solution space. You think in graphs and algorithms, and are not afraid of complexity. You are bubbling with feature ideas.

There are a couple of major projects you will be working on with the team in the near future:

a) Developing an API for other apps to easily communicate with us
b) Developing analytical tools for career centers
c) Developing a utility for jobseekers to discover skills to improve
d) Develop mechanisms to improve our matching engine
e) Develop interesting social features that leverage social network APIs

We work in a designer space in Uptown Pittsburgh (between downtown and Oakland, across from South Side), which is co-inhabited by a giant poodle and other interesting tech companies. We like being co-located while working, and expect the same of you.

Friday afternoons you work on whatever you feel like. Seriously. We brew freshly ground single origin coffee at least twice a day. We will pay you comparable salary to companies our size, pay for half your health and dental insurance, and may provide you stock options.

Interested? Contact us at careers@careerimp.com

Note: This is a full-time position (40+ hrs/wk). Part-time contractors need not apply.

bitsweet 4 days ago 0 replies      
Anywhere - McKinsey & Company's Application Development Group

Looking for software engineers that care about quality software and want to work in small, mainly autonomous development teams. You'll have the freedom to try new ideas, experiment and be expected to constantly learn and grow.

Desired Qualities:

* Disdains repetition and automates annoying tasks

* Balances beauty and pragmatism in your designs and code

* Has contributed to open source projects, participated in some technical community, or has written or spoken in public about your area of interest

* Improves our development process by proposing tools and approaches

* Relentless at refactoring and improving code quality

Email work_for_it_appdev@mckinsey.com with link to github account, blog, or other online community participation

rabedik 4 days ago 0 replies      
Software Engineer, San Francisco CA

OcuSpec is a venture backed start-up developing motion control technology that is radically more powerful and affordable than anything currently available. We're seeking smart, passionate people interested in challenging problems and changing the way people interact with machines.

Desired Skills/Experience: Software architecture, cross-platform APIs, C/C++, parallel processing (GPU/CPU), computer graphics (openGL/DirectX), real-time systems.

This is a great opportunity to work on and take ownership of bleeding edge technology at a early stage. We offer very competitive compensation, great benefits and an office near the Caltrain.


pjo 4 days ago 0 replies      
Conshohocken, PA - Monetate

We have fun problems at scale - real-time decision making plus web scale data. We have hired people from HN before and are always looking to meet new people.

We sell SAAS to internet retailers allowing them to test site content, target to visitor segments, and personalize web experiences.

Currently hiring for positions here: http://monetate.com/about/jobs/ - primarily product engineers, front-end developers.

We work primarily in Python and Javascript but are looking for talented engineers of any background who like solving new problems.

We are backed by First Round Capital and are growing quickly.

Please feel free to email: tjanofsky at monetate.

Tofusensei 4 days ago 0 replies      
San Francisco, CA.

Follow us on twitter at @ThoughtLeadr

ThoughtLeadr is an angel-funded early stage B2B startup. We're building social media analytics, targeting and engagement solutions for content-generation sites (think reddit, not facebook).

We are located in SOMA in San Francisco and are looking for candidates to work out of SF. We'll pay relocation expenses for the right candidate.


Opening #1: Web Developer

You should be accomplished and comfortable designing web front-ends. You should have at least some experience with some of the following technologies (not all, that would be pretty nuts!):





Node.js or Python

Please send your resume and links to sample code/sites/portfolio to jobs@thoughtleadr.com


Opening #2: Designer


Must be able to translate high-level concepts into elegant user experience design

Must be able to create user work flows, interaction models, and screen designs

Must be able to do elegant data visualization

Strong Adobe Creative Suite skills

Uber-comfortable with a white board


Portfolio of well-designed web projects

Strong visual design skills (knowledge of topography, color, use of color)

Ability to prototype HTML, CSS, and Javascript

Please send resume & portfolio link to jobs@thoughtleadr.com


Opening #3: Linux Administrator

We're looking to hire a very smart Linux admin to help support our back-end systems. Be prepared to deal with BIG data and tons of servers.

You should be ultra-comfortable on a Linux CLI. In particular, Ubuntu. You should have at least some experience with some of the following technologies (not all, that would be pretty nuts!):





Riak (NoSQL)

Distributed Task Queues


ruby or python

email your resume to jobs@thoughtleadr.com


Littleme 4 days ago 1 reply      
Palo Alto/San Francisco/Anywhere (USA). Cloudera. http://www.cloudera.com/company/careers/

Lots of openings for engineers, ops, business development...

In particular, I'm looking for someone else to work with me on curriculum development and certification (you can work from anywhere in the US). If you can take technical subjects and make them interesting and comprehensible, you're the person I'm looking for. You'll have a technical background, and ideally you'll know Java in some depth. Bonus points for knowing Hadoop, HBase, or similar technologies, and/or for having experience in the certification field. Apply via the Web site or contact me directly (e-mail in my profile).

BenS 4 days ago 0 replies      
Pinterest (www.pinterest.com) is hiring engineers, interns and product designers in Palo Alto.

We are a small team founded by folks from Google & Facebook. We are building a product that is growing quickly and is beloved by millions: http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/pinterest.com#

You can read more here: http://www.pinterest.com/about, or get in touch with me directly. ben@pinterest.com.

iampims 4 days ago 0 replies      
San Francisco, CA " Formspring
25M users, 3.5B responses, growing fast.

Looking for Front-end, Software and Systems engineers.

We're having fun solving challenging problems.

Buzzword dump: Cassandra, Riak, Kestrel, Thrift, AWS, mobile…

We're in SOMA, and regularly hosting Meetups (Riak and Cassandra)

email: tim (a) formspring (dot) me

twitter: @pims

edit: full description here http://about.formspring.me/jobs

qhfgva 3 days ago 0 replies      
RightNow Technologies http://www.rightnow.com Bozeman, MT

As a Developer, you will be a part of the team that comprises technical design and software development of Core Infrastructure Services (CIS), the Python based software infrastructure layer upon which the RightNow application service resides.

The CIS layer requires a high performance, scalable, fault tolerant architecture. CIS is the interface between the RightNow application and the cloud hosting environment. CIS provides services such as installation/configuration, software upgrades, database replication, file attachment storage, and deferred job processing.


* Strong Python knowledge
* Strong Linux / Systems experience
* Strong MySQL

About the company

RightNow is one of the largest SaaS venders in the world. We serve billion+ page views every month and have hundreds of terabytes of customer data. The scale of our solution is challenging and we need to develop innovative solution to meet our growing demands.

Contact Info:

* Web: http://tbe.taleo.net/NA8/ats/careers/requisition.jsp?org=RIG...
* No telecommuting

jrlevine 4 days ago 0 replies      
New York, NY - News.me


We're hiring for:

- Senior iOS Engineer
- Front End Developer
- Software Engineer (Python)

What we're about:

At News.me we're on a mission to create a new type of news product. We're building a product that will be fundamentally social, span multiple devices, and accommodate a variety of reading styles.

We believe in a Web organized around people, not pages; where discovery is social and happens across platforms. New devices like the iPhone and iPad are completely altering the way that users interact with content. They offer tremendous opportunities to create experiences that are personal and human. The news experience must be re-imagined for this level of intimacy.

We live, eat, sleep and breathe this stuff and want to work with brilliant people who care as deeply as we do about what we are trying to build. If that sounds like you, get in touch!

Here's what some people are saying about News.me:

"News.me is pushing the edge of what a social news stream looks like" (TechCrunch)

"An Eye Opening App...Seeing the online world through different peoples' perspectives is a remarkably unique way to experience news consumption." (ReadWriteWeb)

We are building a world-class team and are looking for people who want to:
- Get in on the ground floor of a well-capitalized startup with a big vision
- Collaborate with a small team on all aspects of product and business model strategy
- Engineer a beautiful experience that touches millions of people
- Explore the boundaries of emergent devices

jprobert 4 days ago 0 replies      
DBs, Dataminers, Developers

Philadelphia, PA

Cliq is a big data company focused on social search. We are a small group and currently have 3 great developers. We need DBs, dataminers and architects to help us scale the company as we're dealing with billions of data points and social edges. We're free spirited and funded company and you can check out an Alpha version of our site at http://www.cliqsearch.com.

Please email resumes to jason@cliqsearch.com.

BvS 4 days ago 0 replies      
Berlin, Germany - Full time- RoR (http://www.betterplace.org)

Full description (English): http://www.betterplace.org/en/jobs

Related Video (German): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tK82l8pZpzQ

thomd 4 days ago 0 replies      
Cambridge and Brighton (UK) - Aptivate

We build websites, web services and run in-country training programmes for the international development sector. We are looking for smart software developers to join our team.

As well as writing code, our developers get to work on the ground in developing countries on projects ranging from delivering technical training, to building and deploying resilient hardware systems for power and communications. Each team member has a voice in strategy and policy of the organisation.

For details see http://www.aptivate.org/job-web-developer

seanieb 4 days ago 0 replies      
San Francisco, CA



- Intern - Software Engineer
- IT Engineer
- Site Reliability Engineer
- Software Engineer
- Technical Support Engineer

inovica 4 days ago 0 replies      
Newcastle, UK (REMOTE or INTERN). - Designer wanted

We are looking for a good designer to join our team developing a few different applications. See www.competitormonitor.com as one example of what we're doing. Your location is not important to us as we are used to working with people from around the world. Our current team is UK, Russian and Argentinian, so we welcome everyone :)

Contact me at the email address in my profile


jimle_uk 4 days ago 0 replies      
Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia - MobileApps.com

Hi HN! Long time lurker, first time poster! I'm posting this on behalf of MobileApps.com.

We're looking for exceptional and talented web designers/developers to join our frontend team.

Ideally, you'll be:

1) Interested in working for a startup aimed at shaking up the mobile apps industry.

2) OK with working remotely, getting things done to high standards and making yourself accountable (and please be available over skype)

3) A strong graphics/ui/ux designer (we like pixel perfect, dribbble, metalabdesign) with HTML/CSS/Javascript skills to match (think JQuery, closures in js and if you've dabbled in node.js that'll be a huge plus!) Just fyi, we mainly use Java on the backend but soon we'll be doing all sorts of crazy stuff with node.js, redis, mongodb, you name it.

4) Available to meetup in Kuala Lumpur or Penang occasionally for good times and durian (may involve actual meetings).

5) creative, self-starter, great personality and positive mindset.

6) Looking forward to doing android/ios development in the near future.

You'll be working with me to completely revamp MobileApps.com and build an awesome platform and a fairer deal for mobile/tablet app developers and users all over the world.

I'll be honest, it's a huge challenge and we're a small team - this position is for someone who can offer commitment more than anything else. If you are this person, please do not hesitate to contact me with your portfolio/sample work + code at jimmyle @ mobileapps.com (Jimmy Le, Lead designer & frontend developer, MobileApps.com).

mdelagra 4 days ago 0 replies      
Evanston, IL

Leapfrog Online is looking for a talented Chicago-area Python engineer to work in our Evanston office. Our Python engineers build and maintain high-traffic web sites using the Django web framework. We offer a great working atmosphere, a strong focus on work-life balance, and tremendous opportunities to learn new skills and technologies. We also have competitive salaries and benefits and close-knit teams who like what they do.

As we principally focus on the web, we look for real-world experience using Python application frameworks (such as Django) to build high-traffic web sites and applications. Experience with other languages is welcome. What are the extras we look for? Experience producing and consuming web services (SOAP, REST, XML-RPC); experience working with message-oriented systems (AMQP or other message, pub-sub and task queues such as Celery); deep knowledge of version control systems (especially Mercurial or Git); an interest in non-RDBMS data stores (CouchDB, MongoDB, Redis); knowing what it really means to develop RESTful applications; and, experience with functional and declarative programming models in addition to object-oriented development.

If you're a bright, self-motivated engineer who enjoys using open source software to solve interesting problems, you're our kind of programmer, and we'd like to talk to you. You can apply on our site, where you'll also find full job descriptions and information about Leapfrog Online: http://www.leapfrogonline.com/who/careers/

alexhektor 4 days ago 0 replies      
JDownloader - Nuremberg (Bavaria), Germany - full time, lots of perks


Who you'll be a part of: We're the developers of JDownloader, the market leading download management tool with over 15 million happy users. On top of that, we work on client-side applications for some of the top 200 websites worldwide.

With only 3 people, we're still a relatively small, but highly motivated team with high aspirations, great opportunities and an extremly optimistic outlook on the future. Joining us, you'll have the opportunity to experience rapid growth right when it's happening while actively being a part of building and growing a big company.

What you'll do: As (Senior) Java Developer, you're in charge of diverse responsibilities and work on them either alone or in teams. You're responsible for parts of JDownloader, but on top of that will also have your own projects or products, for which you take the lead developer role.

Because we usually don't have strict deadlines or draconic specifications, we expect you to prioritize and get things done by yourself. You should feel cozy in your code, but also keep an eye on things like SEO strategy, project- and product management as well as user interface and experience. Your own ideas and innovations for projects, features or products are more than welcome and will actively be supported.

Send your resume, links to your current/past projects, github/social profiles (HN for example :)) or whatever you think we should know about you to e-mail@appwork.
We're looking forward to working with you :)

marcin 4 days ago 0 replies      
Warsaw (Poland)

Front-end developer (HTML+CSS on Python). LinkFindr helps people use their social networks to drive business much like Facebook helped Ivy League students leverage their friendships to get laid. We integrate 4 networks, index thousands of contacts and evaluate connections based on real interaction - then we help people find the right introductions to desired contacts.

More info about us, and how to get in touch at http://linkfindr.com/linkfindr/default/about

WadeWilliams 4 days ago 0 replies      
Phoenix, AZ, Full Time - Some Telecommuting if you're the best.

Job Title: Front End Developer

Local Motors (www.local-motors.com) is a auto industry game changer. Using our website, anyone can participate in co-creating amazing new vehicle designs. After building the Rally Fighter (www.rallyfighter.com) and the XC2V for DARPA (http://www.local-motors.com/lmBuild.php?c=11185), now Local Motors is producing a new web site which will leverage co-creation and gaming to bring America the next generation of automobiles.

Are you positive, supportive and inspiring to others?

Do you get things done? Are you independent, and yet take direction well?

Are you passionate enough to work in a start-up?

Do you get excited about cool new interfaces and ways of interacting with the web?

Do you want to be a part of changing our world in a meaningful way?

You may be a recent graduate with relevant school projects or endless hours of relevant tinkering behind you. You may have a couple of years experience under your belt developing slick user interfaces. Either way, you are both talented and organized.

Our playground:

LAMP, HTML5, CSS3, Javascript, jQuery, SVN,


    Implement public facing pages
Help make UI and UX decisions
Build reusable CSS/JS frameworks to simplify development
Participation in general internet engineering needs of the company


Gets things Done
Exceptional proficiency using HTML5/CSS/Javascript/jQuery/AJAX in a production environment
In depth knowledge of browser compatibility
Familiarity with Object Oriented Programming
Demonstrated design and UX sensibilities
Strong CS fundamentals gained through Bachelor's degree in CS, HCI or related discipline or equivalent industry experience
Personal projects that show and aptitude for front-end engineering and product design sense
Ability to work in areas outside of their usual comfort zone and get things done quickly
Knowledge of SVN


    Excellent Knowledge in SEO and Internet Marketing
Experience using object oriented PHP
Experience with PHPMyAdmin

Experience using MySQL in a production environment


    Competitive salaries
Vacation days & time off
Medical coverage
70 Degree winter days in Phoenix, AZ
An active working environment with brilliant designers, engineers and technology experts
Much more...

dtsingletary 3 days ago 0 replies      
San Francisco, CA


We're looking for Engineers! A few of them! Great ones who are cool and get stuff done and want to be part of a fast growing company.

We are the standard for influence. We have a lot of technical problems to solve.


It's a fun place to work. Everyone is smart and knows their shit.

Most of the engineering is in java/hadoop/nosql, depending on your position. We'd love someone with NLP experience for the Research engineer position.

Feel free to contact me at tyler at klout.com (or through HN).

The boiler:
Klout consists of a team of scientists, engineers, thinkers and dreamers banded together to create a standard where one had never been before. We believe that every person who creates content has influence and our mission is to help individuals understand and leverage their influence.

kevbo 4 days ago 0 replies      
Evanston, IL

Junior Python Test Engineer at Leapfrog Online

We're the leading independent digital direct marketing firm in the country, developing programs for Fortune 500 marketers to find and convert the right customers. We build complex app ecosystems with frameworks like Django and Rails sitting on top, with a mound of open source software supporting them.

We're looking for a junior-level Python Developer to join our Test Engineering team, writing functional, integration, and unit tests in Python for our Django-powered business platform. As part of the Ops team, we also do light system administration and help write monitoring tools.

Requirements: an intense attention to detail, a love of learning, a passion for problem-solving, and a good attitude and sense of responsibility. You should also have experience with Python (or be willing to transition from another dynamic language like Ruby or PHP); be comfortable working on a *nix command line; and have general knowledge about HTML, CSS, and JavaScript.

We're committed to agile and open source; we use packages like mechanize, twill, Selenium, nose, and PyQT every day.

Interested? If so, we offer a competitive salary plus an incentive and benefits package, and a close-knit team who likes what they do and has fun doing it. If you think you're a good fit for this position, apply with your resume and salary history. kboers (at) leapfrogonline.com

BryanCrow 4 days ago 0 replies      
WonderHowTo.com Seeks Tech Blogger/Moderator (Work Remotely)

WonderHowTo is a place for both tech geeks & amateurs to gather and learn about what's new, and how to make the most of it.

We need a writer/community admin to help answer community questions, cover the latest hot releases on the web, mobile, & desktop, and write in-depth tutorials to help non-technical people learn everything from how to secure their wifi network to controlling their privacy on Facebook. You should have deep technical knowledge, yet be able to write accessible and interesting articles that regular users can follow and find interesting.

This candidate would head up an all-things-tech World as a community admin (learn more about WonderHowTo Worlds here), and should be capable of:

- Keeping an active forum going
- Writing interesting, joe-user readable tutorials
- Posting latest news in software, apps, privacy issues, & helpful tricks on getting things done faster
- Build a following on the site & across the nerdier social networks (ex: Google+)

Please note: Candidate must be savvy with both OS X, & Windows (*nix would be a plus), confident in troubleshooting tech-related issues, have strong writing skills, and participate in tech forums/blogs.

Option to work remotely... from anywhere!


Please send the following to rmansur@wonderhowto.com:

Your resumé, plus 1-2 writing samples, preferably on the topic at hand. Please show proof/link to online communities you're active in.

hercynium 4 days ago 0 replies      
Akamai Technologies is looking for software, QA, network and systems engineers in the following locations:

  Cambridge, MA, USA
San Mateo, CA, USA
Bangalore, India

We're also hiring for many other roles in these locations as well as many other places around the globe.

I've been working here for just over a year as a Sr. Software Engineer, and this is just a great place to work. The company is very technology driven, creativity is encouraged, and while we are very robust and careful in our practices and procedures, (especially operations and release management) I feel like developers and managers are given a lot of independence to make important technical decisions, which leads to giving us the ability to really make a difference with every thing we do. That's something special to have in a company of this size, IMO.

So, the careers page is here: http://www.akamai.com/careers

I know my group is looking for skilled SQA engineers, but company-wide we need everything from battle-hardened linux admins to C++ gurus, to Java/Perl/Python hackers and everything in between. My own group develops in Clojure. My co-worker is currently prototyping algorithms in Haskell.

Since I do get a referral bonus, don't forget to send them my name if you submit a resume!

  (bash -c 'echo moc\!iam@k@ diff@css | tr " @!" "@a." | rev')

mikebabineau 4 days ago 0 replies      
Redwood Shores, CA (SF Bay Area) - Engineers and more

BioWare SF is hiring! Formerly known as EA2D, we are now the online/social arm of the BioWare group.

We're working on exciting projects:

* Social games for gamers (from BioWare and others)

* Game APIs (web services for online games)

We're small (30 people) and scrappy. And we're growing fast: 0-200 servers in the past 8 months. Tech stack is primarily AS3/Java backed by MongoDB, but we're writing more in Python, JavaScript, and Ruby. We have a highly automated infrastructure running on AWS (EC2 w/ELBs and ASGs, EMR, SQS, Beanstalk, etc., plus more than a few super-secret/unreleased Amazon features) and Google App Engine. Buzzword potpourri includes Chef, node.js, Hive, Graphite, Tomcat, Spring, Maven, Hudson, GitHub, Pingdom, Loggly, PagerDuty, and continuous deployment. <3 DevOps. We have a small but growing list of open source projects (see http://github.com/ea2d and http://eng.ea2d.com/).

We need backend and systems engineers, artists, PMs, and more. Detailed listings are here: https://jobs.ea.com/search/advanced.do?q=bioware&globalR...

I lead the platform team. Drop me a line if you're interested: mikeb@ea2d.com

david_lieb 3 days ago 1 reply      
Mountain View, CA

Bump (YC, Sequoia, a16z)

iOS, Android, back-end development

Work on the 7th most popular mobile app of all time with more than 50 million downloads. A hint of some of the new things we're working on: http://bu.mp/labs

Learn more at http://bu.mp/jobs

toponium 4 days ago 0 replies      
Boston, MA (Greater Boston Area) http://www.comperiosearch.com/

The Comperio team is currently looking for talented individuals to join our Greater Boston team. Junior and Senior Software Engineers are needed to customize our search technology to fit specific projects of our high-end customer base. We offer an exciting environment, challenging work and a competitive salary to the right individual. These are full time, salaried positions.

Position: Senior Consultant
Location: Boston, MA
Summary: Software development, professional services, custom architecture
Compensation: $80-100k

Position: Junior Consultant
Location: Boston, MA
Summary: Software development, professional services and support, requires excellent communication skills, fast-paced work environment
Compensation: $60-80k

Required competencies and skills:
- Bachelor's/Master's/PhD in Computer Science or work experience equivalent
- Excellent written and verbal communication skills
- Strong problem solving skills
- Interest in learning new technologies. Must have experience with or be willing to quickly learn: Java, .NET, Python; XML, HTML, PHP, JavaScript; Bash, PowerShell; Oracle, MySQL, MS SQL Server; Maven, Eclipse, SVN, CVS
- Candidates with experience in SharePoint, FAST ESP, and/or Agile development processes (specifically SCRUM) preferred

Contact me: dana.ford@comperiosearch.com with questions or resumes

danberger 4 days ago 0 replies      
Social Tables (http://www.socialtables.com/), a DC/NYC- (I'm in dc but ready to move back to my hometown of nyc) based startup, is looking for a CTO. My co-founder had to leave because he couldn't quit his job (boooo). I went all in and quit mine a few months ago (freeeeeedommm!!).

Social Tables is a web-based seating chart designer for weddings and other events with assigned tables. We help event/wedding planners create floorplans and assign their guests seats. We're called Social Tables because we have a social feature that lets guests meet who they'll be sitting with beforehand. We have a tested product, over 1,000 users, brand awareness, and deep industry expertise. In other words, we know our stuff and people love our product (we save an event planner 4 hours per event). We've been self-funded to date and are currently talking to interested angels.

Like I said, I'm looking for a CTO (understanding of Rails is a must, love for SproutCore is a big plus). You should have that startup fire burning in your belly, ridiculous drive (e.g. you like some degree of risk), appreciation of test-based development, and passion for learning new things.

If you're at all interested or just want to shoot the shit, send me a quick note: dan@socialtables.com - I love meeting new people and helping others out.

brackin 4 days ago 0 replies      
We're a Daily deals sites for Design Resources.

We've got about 20,000 users. Selling from eBooks to Photoshop resources and icons. We're looking for Freelance Designers to create some design resources for us.

Like UI Kits, icons, photoshop resources, themes, templates, etc. More of an opportunity than a job. When you have spare time you can create some resources for us and make some extra money.

Earning most of the revenue from the deal, the deals can make from hundreds to more than $1000 (of course we can never promise anything as it all depends on the size of the market and quality of the work).

You have complete creative freedom, work when ever you want and you have as much time as you want. No age or location restrictions as you work from where you want.

andrew [at] getdealy.com

20thr 4 days ago 0 replies      
Helsinki, Finland - Blaast (http://blaast.com)

Rocking mobile -- making it fun and accessible for millions of users and thousands of new developers.

Looking for various positions, from platform/backend, to operations, frontend and developer tools. We work with Scala, Java and Javascript. We are lean and fast. We deploy multiple times per day.


jcs 3 days ago 0 replies      
London, UK - Rangespan

Founded by ex-Amazon executives and engineers, Rangespan is an ambitious e-commerce software company that makes it easy for retailers to offer deep product selection. Our values (http://www.rangespan.com/about/values/) summarise the way we work.

We make heavy use Python, Django, MongoDB, MySQL and AWS to solve complex problems with huge data sets. We take an agile approach to development and are looking for world-class developers to join our team. You will have a broad, hands-on role developing extremely high-scale systems and web services for retailers and suppliers.

Positions available:

* Senior Software Developer

* Data Scientist

For more information, please see http://bit.ly/nKvh5n or email jobs@rangespan.com.

rspeer 3 days ago 0 replies      
Boston - Luminoso (http://lumino.so)

We're looking for a Python developer with experience in natural language processing. We're a text understanding research and consulting company, spun out from the MIT Media Lab.

Businesses accumulate large piles of disorganized text, from social media, surveys, knowledge bases, and customer feedback, and they want a computer system to quickly tell them what's in that text so they can make business decisions. We do that, with natural language processing tools that scan text for known meanings while learning new ones.

We work with open source projects. We use NLTK and NumPy a lot. We're in a nice co-working space with a mindblowing view of the Boston waterfront.

Send your resume to hiring@lumino.so. We also encourage you to send us a link to your GitHub, Bitbucket, or wherever you collaborate on code.

gabrtv 4 days ago 0 replies      
Boulder, CO - OpDemand

OpDemand is a software company with a mission to make IT operations departments efficient and responsive through automation. Our Command & Control technology (C2) makes it simple to deploy and manage complex distributed systems in the cloud. Our web console and command-line tools are unlike anything on the market.

OpDemand is looking for skilled Python developers to join our team and help scale our core infrastructure. Members of the core engineering team must be capable of:

* Writing asynchronous/event-driven code (Twisted)

* Following guidelines for REST and resource-oriented architecture

* Maintaining comprehensive suites of automated tests (in-memory, server-to-database, HTTP end-to-end)

* Orchestrating cloud APIs to provide functional distributed systems

More details here:

Gabriel Monroy, CTO

jgh 4 days ago 0 replies      
Roseville, CA (near Sacramento). Full Time Mobile Game Developer.


5th Planet Games is a company built on a core of hardworking, knowledgeable and dedicated professionals that know what it takes to get the job done. Having launched several successful Facebook games over the last year with over half a million users worldwide, 5th Planet is poised to move into an era of growth and profitability, unmatched in today's market. With an entrepreneurial spirit, 5th Planet provides a fast paced and competitive environment in which strong developers flourish while given the opportunity to grow their own skills. At 5th Planet, we are gamers that build games that we love to play!

Job Summary:

The Mobile Game Developer plays a crucial role in day to day success, market position and overall atmosphere of 5th Planet Games. This position assists in the creation, development, maintenance and improvements of multi-layered, custom, dynamically driven mobile games and web solutions.

Full job posting: http://bit.ly/nmp6Yj

merchenta 4 days ago 0 replies      
London, England (UK)

Merchenta powers real-time behavioural retargeting for eCommerce retailers.

Looking for good Java/Scala developers. Ideally core Java experience in a non-J2EE environment and frameworks such as Spring or Guice and Hibernate.

Experience with machine learning and big data approaches a definite plus.

We could be open to remote depending on where you're based.

contact: careers@merchenta.com

kek 4 days ago 0 replies      
Greatist is looking for a passionate web developer who wants to disrupt the health and fitness space. We inspire and inform our readers to make one healthier choice per week by providing them with entertaining, high-quality, relatable content - the Greatist way.

We need a smart self-starter who loves simplicity and effectiveness, builds stuff for fun that's been successful, and wants to take ownership of the technical side of things. Ideally, you'll be experienced with PHP, WordPress, and Javascript, but that doesn't matter as much as a desire to learn and grow. Your work will be seen - we had over 200,000 unique visitors last month, and we're only getting bigger. At Greatist, we believe every team member makes an impact.

This is a full-time position based in our awesome new office near Madison Square Park in NYC.

Send your resume, favorite health and fitness tip, Github profile, and anything else you can think of to opps (at) greatist (dot) com.

Email kelli (at) greatist (dot) com if you have any other questions - or just want to swap recipes.

namityadav 4 days ago 0 replies      
Groupon is hiring in Palo Alto, CA & Chicago, IL


Design, UX, Data Analyst, Android, iOS, Web-apps (Rails), Testing, ...

essrand 4 days ago 0 replies      
Mountain View, CA - Polyvore, H1B

Polyvore is hiring all types of developers --mobile, frontend, backend, data mining, generalists… polyvore.com/jobs

Polyvore is a social shopping platform with over 10M uniques/month. Our goal is to build a style site that's endlessly browseable, instantly shoppable, and caters to every niche of taste. Our approach is to build platforms and tools that harness the creativity of our user community, empowering them to define trends and express their style.

We're well-funded by Benchmark Capital and Matrix Partners AND became profitable this year. With 10M uniques/month, we are the largest fashion site on the web with plans to expand into other categories. Named 50 Best Websites of 2011 http://www.time.com/time/specials/packages/article/0,28804,2...

mmedia 4 days ago 0 replies      
Millennial Media has some awesome development jobs available in Baltimore, Washington DC, and San Francisco. Check us out at

Cutting edge Mobile technology!!

RandallBrown 4 days ago 0 replies      
Okemos, MI

TechSmith is a software company that specializes in screen capture software. We make Camtasia, Snagit, Jing, and more. We have a variety of fulltime and internship opportunities in development, management, and sales.


itay 4 days ago 0 replies      
Splunk, Seattle, San Francisco, Cupertino (H1B)

Splunk is hiring. You can see available positions here: http://www.splunk.com/view/careers/SP-CAAAAGG

We're generally hiring for everything, including core server engineers, dev platform engineers, dev marketing, product management, QA, performance, UI, etc. It's a big space with a lot of opportunity, and we're doing our best to capture it.

I work on the Dev Platform team in Seattle, and it's a blast. We're a small team (3 devs, including my manager, VP of Dev Platform), in a great space (across the street from Whole Foods in SLU), and everybody at Splunk is great. Feel free to reach out to me (my email is in my profile) with any questions.

We do H-1B, pre-IPO stock, benefits, etc.

cybernytrix 4 days ago 0 replies      
Palo Alto, CA
We are a small lab focused on creating the next generation of movie and TV recommendation technologies that go beyond traditional 5-star explicit rating systems. We have two engineering positions open, one for a Java developer and another with skills in scripting/Python and Linux administration. You will get an opportunity to work on the latest and greatest Machine Learning algorithms and build innovative prototypes that impact a newly created business unit. In addition, you will have opportunity to participate in conferences, CES every year.
Please send you resume (if you are awesome!). H1B OK, no remote. Email me (cybernytrix@gmail.com) for more information or see http://www.technicolor.com/en/hi/technology/research-and-inn....
dget 4 days ago 0 replies      
New York, NY

Coursekit is trying to kill an entrenched incumbent (http://blackboard.com/) and bring social networking to education, and we want you to help build it.

We're looking for an engineer who is excited about joining a young team that's shaking up how education works. We always try using the best tool for the job. For now, we use CoffeeScript, Python, Node.js, Redis, as well as a still-unreleased CoffeeScript framework. If working with these technologies excites you, talk to us.

Apply here: http://coursekit.theapplicants.com/j-11-222 Or if you have any questions, shoot me an email at dan@coursekit.com

jshen 4 days ago 0 replies      
Burbank, CA (Los Angeles) - Disney

Hiring backend an frontend engineers. We're doing ruby on rails (jruby), and we're pushing the envelope on the client side (css3, html5, etc). We have an amazing office, amazing benefits, and a small team that isn't corporate in any way. Oh, and we have a pension :)

Contact Me: jay.donnell@digisynd.com

TimLangley 4 days ago 0 replies      
Manchester (UK) [and global - happy to consider remote working]

Looking for javascript (in particular backbone.js developers)

We're an early stage VC backed company in the web-analytics / big data space.


apgwoz 4 days ago 0 replies      
New York, NY - Meetup

We're looking for backend and UI people as well as a Sysadmin and someone who knows (MySQL, HDFS/Hbase, MogileFS) backwards and forwards (and maybe even sideways).

We've got a great office culture, have periodic hackathons and are growing quickly.

AndrewCallahan 4 days ago 0 replies      
New York, NY

BlueFusion is seeking a talented and experienced Rails developer who can quickly adapt to new situations and technologies in an entrepreneurial environment. We're a new startup moving fast and developing innovative solutions to unique problems in the political and non-profit sphere.

BlueFusion offers the rare opportunity to make a difference in peoples lives while developing cutting edge technology. Become a core member of the team and help lead our vision into the future.

Interested in learning more? Email jobs+hn@bluefusion.org or visit http://www.bluefusion.org/jobs

H1B friendly.

dlowe 4 days ago 0 replies      
San Francisco, CA / Montreal, QC or REMOTE

Xtranormal (http://www.xtranormal.com/) is looking for someone who loves to build for the web and is happy owning projects and products from detailed definition through implementation (front- & back-end) and maintenance.

We're a 25ish-person, largely technical company with small offices in Montreal and SF. We're very open to remote hires.

We're using python/django, mysql, javascript/jquery, flex, VB.Net (!), and so on and so forth. Specific technical aptitude is far less important than a willingness to learn and a desire to build great stuff on the web.

Contact me by email (in profile) to chat about it!

mea36 4 days ago 0 replies      
Remote or Philly

Looking for a part-time Django dev with front end experience and a good intuition for UX to work on small fixes and features. You should be comfortable with Django, jQuery, CSS, HTML and all that good stuff.

We are a marketing service for businesses utilizing QR codes and smartphones.


Ideally we'd like a passionate individual who is genuinely interested in our project. The possibility for full-time employment by the end of the year exists, but if that's not your thing, no worries, we won't pressure you into it.

Contact me at mel [at] coupedout [dot] com.

aurumaeus 4 days ago 0 replies      

* Front End Coder (Python, jQuery, Backbone, LESS)

* Back End Coder (Python, MongoDB, Redis, Fun)

* iOS/Android - (Obj-C/Java/Scala(?))

* DevOps - unix hacker

(NYC, baby)

prayag 4 days ago 0 replies      
MobileWorks (YCS11) is looking for idealist, enthusiastic and capable engineers and engineering interns in San Francisco. http://www.mobileworks.com/jobs.html
swapna 4 days ago 0 replies      
Mountain View, CA - Simply Hired

8 to 10 open positions (http://www.simplyhired.com/a/our-company/careers), notably:

- PHP/Python/Django

- Hadoop/Hive/Big data type stuff <-- we have an aching need for this and it's a team of 0.1 right now. Opportunity for impact here

- Machine learning analyst or scientist <-- also a huge opportunity

- program/project/product manager and marketing positions as well

We have an office in SF downtown near the Ferry Building if that suits you. Interviews are conducted in MV.

Email me swapna at simplyhired

martinshen 3 days ago 0 replies      
San Francisco - UpOut

UpOut helps people discover fun... now. We got into a great incubator and now we're looking for a third man to join our team. Salary + Substantial equity.

We're looking for good developers ideally with iOS/Android experience or an interest getting into it. Candidates should want to help shape the product and company.

email me at martin at UpOut.com if interested.

mdkess 4 days ago 0 replies      
Broadway Technology, New York, NY (right by The Bull! Also right by Fog Creek).

We're a small, profitable ~40 company revolutionizing fixed income and foreign exchange trading by creating a very fast trading platform (don't worry though - we don't trade ourselves, we're very much a software company). We're hoping to grow a lot! Positions are available for developers as well as consultants! Some opportunity to work remote, also, profit sharing for the win. See http://www.broadwaytechnology.com/careers, and mention Hacker News if you decide to apply!

jeffarena 4 days ago 0 replies      
New York, NY
GateGuru, a seed-funded startup, is looking for a talented mobile developer with some Rails experience. Full details here: http://gateguruapp.com/careers/
jrheard 4 days ago 0 replies      
San Francisco, CA (INTERN as well as full-time):

Yelp is hiring: http://yelp.com/careers

We're primarily looking for hackers, product managers, and sysadmins.

ygyasi 4 days ago 0 replies      
San Francisco, CA - Triggit

Inside Sales

About You:
# You know you can sell. And you enjoy it
# You're a hungry self-starter with a relentless work ethic who doesn't want or need to be micromanaged.
# You're motivated by making large quantities of money. And you'll work for it. OTE is $100K+ for top earners.
# You're never afraid to pick up a phone and cold call. And you're relentless enough that you'll never quit.
# You understand that finding the right person to talk to is as important as saying the right thing. And you'll pound the pavement, or weave the Internet, to source the right lead.
# You're fascinated by technology. And selling groundbreaking ideas and products excites you.

# 2+ years of integrated media/digital sales and or agency experience, or a way to prove you don't need it.
# Ability to understand and communicate complex technologies.
# You understand Triggit's core business propositions and technologies. And will be ready to communicate this understanding during your first call.
# You can identify and close deals with digital brands and advertising agencies to achieve Triggit's and individual's quarterly and annual sales goals.
# Excited to work in a fast paced, rapidly changing, start-up environment.
# Ability/willingness to travel as needed. .
# College degree with a solid GPA or equivalent work experience.

To Apply:

Please submit a Resume and Cover Letter answering the following questions to jobs at triggit dot com:

When our CEO Zach was 16 he rode his bike from Minnesota to the Atlanta Olympics and traded enough pins, and scalped enough tickets, to pay for his entire trip and deposit $5G into his bank account to boot. What's your sales story?

# Role is contract-to-hire with aggressive commission structure, but solid base pay.
# Pay is competitive with entry level at Google etc, and when hired full-time, package will include stock equity, 401k, health/dental/vision insurance, commuter benefits, plus breakfast and lunch every day.

fskilroy 4 days ago 0 replies      
Job Description:
Full time - on site
If you are an expert at developing high-performance, MVC standards-compliant interactive web applications using Linux/Apache/MySQL/PHP (using the Zend framework), we want to talk to you!
The ideal candidate has the ability to write and understand PHP as well as being able to work under pressure in a dynamic environment. The candidate should be comfortable facing development challenges with enthusiasm while also researching and proposing new technologies in their field.
Minimum Job Requirements:
3-5 years experience developing code for standards-compliant, MVC web applications
PHP5 (Object Oriented)
Version control (SVN)
Linux OS shell environment and utilities
XML and RSS standards
Zend framework
Bonus Job Qualifications:
Stored procedures
Javascript and knowledge of JS libraries such as JQuery
Experience and understanding of AJAX methodologies
Experience with third party APIs, particularly Facebook Open Graph and Amazon Web Services
About Us:
The Orchard is an independent music and video distributor specializing in comprehensive digital strategies for content owners.
We partner with companies of all sizes, from major independent record labels to management firms to production companies, to make their music and videos available across more than 100 unique digital outlets across 230 countries, as well as physical retailers across North America and Europe. But, that's not all. We work with our clients to maximize their revenue through pricing strategies and sales promotions, provide the latest and greatest digital marketing tools, and offer products like sophisticated sales analytics to help them run their businesses efficiently and effectively.
Why Work for Us:
You will be a core member of a small development team. You will have an enormous impact to shape applications being developed by a leader in the music industry. We offer good benefits and a great work environment for our developers.

To apply, please email theorchardjobs@gmail.com with the following:
Cover letter
Salary requirements
No recruiters, please.

im_asl 4 days ago 1 reply      
Mountain View, CA


Addepar is recreating the infrastructure that powers global wealth management. Addepar's technology increases efficiency, transparency, and sophistication within the global investment industry, thwarting fraud and furthering meritocracy in one of the most important areas of the global economy.

Current openings:
-Forward Deployed Engineer
-Interaction Designer
-Visual Designer
-System Admin
-QA Engineer

Please check out careers.addepar.com or email me at adam (at) addepar.com

easel 4 days ago 0 replies      
Washington DC / Full-time / Remote possible

WiserTogether provides decision support tools for medical consumers (you!). Better decisions reduces costs for your employer and increases quality of care for you. Come join us and make a difference.

Hiring Front-end / Back-end developers. Python, Django and JS. You need to know how to use git with a team and develop on osx/linux. Excellent compensation (including equity) and a great team.

email me direct with a github profile and resume or linkedin. erik.labianca -at- wisertogether.com

JBerlinsky 4 days ago 0 replies      
Anywhere, USA. Intern/Remote/We'll-work-it-out.

CommonPlace USA is looking for people to fill two opporunities:

* A front-end web developer to work with our existing RoR tech stack

* A back-end developer to hack on our tech stack.

The stack consists of RoR, Sinatra, Backbone.js, PostgreSQL, and Redis.

Shoot me an e-mail (in profile) with your Github profile, resume, epic poems, or whatever else you have to show :)

yanavery 4 days ago 0 replies      
Montreal, Quebec, Canada

TradeInsight (MEI Group). Sell More. Spend Smarter.

Current open positions are the following :

1) Java Developer
2) Quality Assurance Analyst
3) User Experience Designer
4) Senior Customer Support Developer
5) Product Marketing Manager

Great working environment, great team, great company!

For more details, check out http://www.tradeinsight.com/aboutus/careers

Aqua_Geek 4 days ago 0 replies      
Washington, DC - AKQA, Inc.

We're looking for a Senior iOS Developer and a Mobile Architect: http://www.akqa.com/career.

amitrathore 4 days ago 0 replies      
Like Lisp? Like the JVM? Like data?

We're a 3-year old Clojure startup called Runa, and we're disrupting the eCommerce space. We've only taken a series A, and we're revenue positive, and will be profitable in a few months.

We have some top Clojurians working for us, and are looking for people across the stack to focus on Big Data, Machine Learning, scalability, etc. Check us out at http://www.WorkAtRuna.com

cliftonk 4 days ago 0 replies      
Dallas, TX

Looking for Frontend + Backend Developers

Backend is Rails, MySQL, NodeJS and Redis


emiranda 4 days ago 0 replies      

We make mobile games for ios and android. We are seeking Flash/Flex developers (big plus if you used Flex 4.5), Lua developers (Corona SDK), and Game Designers.

We prefer to work with someone local (we are located in the San Francisco Bay Area) but wouldn't mine trying something remote.

If you are interested please shoot us an email at admin@mirandabros.com, please include a resume. If you worked on games in the past, please include links to them.


barce 4 days ago 0 replies      
Los Angeles, West Hollywood, Machinima.com, Full-time employment

We are hardcore gamers that love producing the best videos of the top players in the gaming scene. FPS, MMOs and Ruby are 3 things you should love.

If you've got ruby skills and if you are also good at working with a scalable system with the intention of getting more performance out of it, let us know.


beermann 4 days ago 0 replies      
Madison, WI - StudyBlue

We're a quickly-growing startup trying to fill several positions as we hit some big milestones this year. Excellent candidates will be excellently compensated.

Available positions:
Senior Application Developer,
Community Manager,
iPhone Developer,
Android Developer,
Interactive Designer

For more information: http://company.studyblue.com/about/jobs/

krupp 4 days ago 0 replies      
San Francisco, CA - Songbird
Cross-platform media player spanning from desktop to mobile. Crafting a flexible and integrated music experience for the future.

Senior Product Manager
Senior Program Manager
Senior Software Engineer - Desktop


abreckle 4 days ago 0 replies      
San Francisco, CA Visual.ly

We are small and nimble team building a consumer-friendly data visualization tool and are looking for few front-end hackers with demonstrated expertise in all or many of the following and a passion for data visualization to round out our core engineering team.

* Javascript, Backbone.js & jQuery
* CSS3

Learn more: http://visual.ly/about/jobs

ygyasi 4 days ago 0 replies      
San Francisco, CA - Triggit

Job Title: Sales Director

Triggit is hiring a senior sales professional to take on the role of Sales Director. Candidate must have a proven track record in digital media sales and have existing relationships with advertisers and their ad agencies. Candidate will be responsible for direct sales to companies of varying sizes, including ad agencies.

Commission and Equity package will be very aggressive and encourage groundbreaking strategy, concepts, and sales.

* 5+ years of integrated media/digital sales and or agency experience.
* Strong understanding of core developments in digital media sales and underlying technologies. Have existing relationships with advertisers, agencies, and media buyers. You should be able to close deals today with a phone call.
* Ability to understand and communicate Triggit's core business propositions and technologies.
* Identify and close deals with digital brands and advertising agencies to achieve Triggit's and individual's quarterly and annual sales goals.
* Excellent sales skills with a proven track record of success negotiating, closing and delivering complex, high revenue, deals (6-figure +).
* Comfort working in a fast paced, rapidly changing, start-up environment.
* Ability/willingness to travel as needed.

To Apply:

Please submit a Resume and Cover Letter answering the following question to jobs@triggit.com:

   1. If you were to start selling at Triggit tomorrow, who would be your first sales client, and why?

levonjlloyd 4 days ago 0 replies      
Long Island, NY - General Sentiment
Full-time positions
Jobs: Software Engineer - User Interface and Software Engineer - Systems

We're looking to build out our UI team and add to our team of systems programmers.


lamplighter 4 days ago 0 replies      
Uken Games in downtown Toronto

Uken is looking for talented developers to help us build mobile games in HTML5 and push what is possible in a browser.

We are a profitable startup (~20 employees) experiencing massive growth, with over 100,000 players a day across iPhone, iPad, Android, BlackBerry and Facebook.

More info at http://uken.com/jobs

nwilkens 4 days ago 0 replies      
Monroe, MI

www.mnxsolutions.com - Linux Server Management

MNX Solutions manages the Linux infrastructure for growing companies. We are hiring Linux system administrators for mid-level and senior positions.

More detail available on our website:

b0sk0 4 days ago 0 replies      
We hack all day on AdGear (www.adgear.com), a modern ad platform for publishers, agencies, networks, and bid/exchange optimizers.

We're based in Montreal, Canada, right beside Sq Victoria metro downtown (Red Bull is upstairs). We're privately funded, revenue generating, and profitable.

I'm looking to get in touch with devs working with and interested in one or more of the following:

- Erlang
- node.js
- Cassandra in multi-data-center environments
- Rails, and ruby in general
- C, especially high performance http server hacking
- xp and interest in building high performance real-time analytics systems

And if you are:

- Someone who "loves the problem" and gets off on solving it, even/especially if it hasn't already been solved
- Someone not afraid to be scrappy to get things done, but who can balance that well with doing things properly

Please: not looking for freelancers nor freelancing shops. We want someone willing to join our small but growing engineering team full-time. Ideally located in MTL or surrounding regions, but if the above is right up your alley and you're not here, get in touch with me anyway, maybe it'll make sense to work with you anyway. :-)

You can reach me at bosko@bloom-hq.com if you're still reading. :-)

ctborg 4 days ago 0 replies      
Vancouver, BC, Canada. http://www.wishpond.com/

Wishpond is the leading local product search engine creating the next chapter in online and social shopping. Wishpond empowers shoppers to find products from nearby retailers, and opens new marketing realms for local and independent retailers.

We're looking for passionate developers who take pride in their work and deliver high-quality results.

- Experience building and deploying Ruby on Rails applications
- Front end experience with jQuery, Javascript, CSS, and HTML
- Excellent problem solvers
- Good communication skills and a team player

Nice to Have:
- Experience with scaling web applications
- Familiarity with administration and manipulation of MySQL relational databases
- Proficiency Competence working with *nix operating systems

Sounds interesting? We use the shiniest technologies to power our vision:
- Highly scalable cloud based infrastructure
- Rails, Python
- Mobile App Development
- Creating new industry API's for other developers to leverage and productize our offering
- Large scale content ingestion engine

- Sound interesting? Apply to careers@wishpond.com

_arpan_ 3 days ago 0 replies      
Sunnyvale, Fulltime/Intern

H1Bs ok

Software Engineers.

We are a well funded bay area startup and the fastest growing digital media company offering South Asian content.

We have some very interesting problems that we are trying to solve. Some examples include large scale audio processing, massive scaling, interesting text processing, digital content delivery on various channel etc.

Our engineering team is small and you will be having opportunity to make a really big impact on the way how people consume digital media.

The exact job posting is here

Let me know if you have any questions.
e- arpan [ a t ] saaavn [ dot ] com

robinduckett 3 days ago 0 replies      
Cardiff, Wales, United Kingdom

Mon Motors Group

Job Title: Junior Developer

We're looking for a junior PHP developer, experience with Drupal, Smarty / Dwoo, Javascript, Node.js, Linux Server config, all plusses.

Contact robin.duckett@monmotors.com

jarz 3 days ago 0 replies      
Indianapolis, IN
Raleigh, NC

Aprimo has lots of technical openings right now and more to come! We're a software company HQ'd in Indianapolis focused on improving the marketing segment. Our solutions range from customer-hosted applications into SaaS/cloud offerings.

Development happens using a full Microsoft-oriented stack with C#, SQL Server, IIS, ASP.NET, etc. Our application is totally web-based, so Javascript experience helps.

Development / SW engineering positions typically are located in either Indy or Raleigh, but there are exceptions. Also have QA and test engineer positions.

Technical consultants are remote, just have to live within the region they support (West, South, other cardinal directions).

There are even some INTERNATIONAL opportunities (China, Czech Republic).

Looking for a DBA role? Awesome, we've got openings for that too. Databases experience with the following appreciated: SQL Server, Oracle, DB2, Teradata.

Feel free to email me (tim - jarz.net) for information.

roobeast 4 days ago 0 replies      
San Francisco, CA Downtown - Trulia

Looking for a few experienced search engineers and some distributed data processing folk. Java, python, hadoop, solr and lots of other stuff.

http://www.trulia.com/jobs (front end and other positions also available)

gregorymichael 4 days ago 0 replies      
Chicago, IL

Table XI

We are hiring Ruby, PHP and Perl developers.

We build custom e-commerce and data-management apps.

We offer flexible hours (people come in between 9am and 2pm), gourmet lunches cooked in-house, and we occasionally take corporate retreats to Costa Rica.

Email: jobs@tablexi.com

ckluis 4 days ago 0 replies      
Dunedin, FL (near Tampa/Clearwater)

Devs with strong: ASP.NET, SQL, javascript skills

www.mintek.com //website relaunching in two weeks

We build large-scale enterprise quality products. We move mountains for our customers. And all our applications have a mobile component.

Email me at chris.kluis@mintek.com

aarki 4 days ago 0 replies      
Mountain View/Sunnyvale, CA

Aarki is a mobile advertising network, working closely with mobile developers to provide more relevant advertising with a better user experience. For us more relevant advertising means people can get great applications for free and see only a small amount of interesting ads, and developers can get paid for their efforts.

We are still a very early stage startup, so small team, compelling equity offerings, diverse and interesting problems to work with.

Looking for:

1) frontend developers to do a lot of advanced development in JS for mobile phones

2) backend developers; we are mostly a Python shop but all backgrounds are welcome if you can find the right tool for new problems and solve them:

Emails sent to jobs-at-aarki.com will get directly to company founders.

tedroden 4 days ago 0 replies      
Fancy Hands - NYC


  - 2 Python based engineers for Google App Engine.
- 1 Front End (JS, etc)
- 1 Marketing

Definitely willing to work with engineers remotely, but would prefer you to be in NYC.

Email me for more info, etc: tedroden @ fancyhands

lukatmyshu 4 days ago 0 replies      
Mountain View, CA San Francisco, CA New York City, NYC
Work on projects that reach over 185+ million users a month. remote work is totally cool as well. Check out a list of all of our jobs here http://www.meebo.com/jobs/
ygyasi 4 days ago 0 replies      
San Francisco - Triggit

Job Title: Sr. Reporting Engineer

We are looking for a Senior Reporting Systems Engineer (Java, Scala, Clojure, etc) to lead Triggit's reporting efforts for our real time bidding platform. You will work alongside a team of successful entrepreneurs and experienced developers in constantly pushing the boundary of innovation and possibility.


    * Many years experience with Java
* One or more years with one other JVM based language (Scala, Clojure, etc.)
* Some experience with RDBMS and SQL
* Experience with Hadoop
* Experience with developing reports over complex data at scale
* Experience with information visualization is preferred
* All Candidates should have strong communication skills, consider themselves a curious high level thinker

To Apply:

Please submit a Resume & Source Code examples of your work, (If this isn't possible, you may also submit an online portfolio of your work), to jobs at triggit dot com.

amduser29 4 days ago 0 replies      
San Francisco, CA


Life360 is turning smartphones into the ultimate safety device. We could use your help giving over 4 million families reassurance and peace of mind.

Contact: alex@life360.com

Sam_10gen 4 days ago 0 replies      
New York, San Francisco

10gen develops MongoDB, and offers production support, training, and consulting for the open source database.

10gen was founded by former DoubleClick Founder and CTO Dwight Merriman and former DoubleClick engineer and ShopWiki Founder and CTO Eliot Horowitz. Dwight and Eliot began development on MongoDB in 2007, drawing upon their experiences building large scale, high availability, robust systems.

10gen is led by seasoned executives and technologists with senior leadership experience at many of the worlds leading technology companies, including two executives and four senior engineers with over 50 years combined experience at Oracle. 10gen is backed by leading venture capital firms who invested in established leaders like Oracle, Cisco and Apple as well as rapidly growing internet companies like Zynga and Twitter.

We are hiring all types of developers ---


winasaurus 4 days ago 0 replies      
San Jose, CA (Campbell)


Winasaurus is looking for a designer for web and mobile. We are a 4-person startup (2 biz guys, 2 developers) who are making web and iPhone apps to help small local businesses reach out to customers.

You get to figure out how to make the UI beautiful and the functionality flow like water--you'll handle the designing, Photoshopping, HTML/CSSing, jQuerying, user testing, etc.. We care first and foremost about katana-like elegance of functionality, and only secondarily about flash--but we're hoping you bring both.

We'll make the rest of the business model and tech stack work, though if you are interested in entrepreneurship or code we love teaching and building a kickass team together.

Let us know if you're interested, please include some portfolio action to: elliot@winasaurus.com

Looking forward to hearing from you!

psota 4 days ago 0 replies      
Cambridge, MA
Panjiva (http://panjiva.com)
Hiring engineers -- UI/UX, frontend, backend data mining/algorithms. See http://panjiva.com/jobs
icecommander 4 days ago 0 replies      
Palo Alto, CA - About.me (parent company is Aol)

Help make public identity on the web more beautiful.

We're looking for Javascript and Python developers.

Email me with your information: luke@about.me

hess 4 days ago 0 replies      
San Francisco (Possibly remote)

Non-technical positions
-Business Development

We are a deal site for small businesses. Early stage - equity available.

Please email jesse at efbuys.com

smoovej 4 days ago 0 replies      
Jobs posted by all TechStars alumni companies: http://www.techstars.org/jobs/
dcprep 3 days ago 0 replies      
Washington DC / SF Bay Area

Looking for a talented back end, Rails engineer who wants cofounder status and equity level (and get paid). We've been accepted into a top accelerator program - we are legit. Learn more:


We open-sourced 90 node.js modules at Browserling (catonmat.net
221 points by pkrumins  11 hours ago   25 comments top 12
iamelgringo 10 hours ago 1 reply      
James and Peteris are two of the most amazing devs I've seen in a long time. They ship and ship and ship and ship.

The first version of StackVM (Browserling's underlying technology) was written in Haskell. They switched to Node close to two years ago if I'm not mistaken. I've gotten an early look at Testling, their cross browser testing web testing tools, and they're easily a year or two ahead of anyone else on the market. I'm looking forward to seeing it launch.

Hook James and Peteris up by purchasing a paid plan: http://browserling.com/pricing

Better yet, ping them about buying a corporate plan for your company: http://browserling.com/contact

MostAwesomeDude 7 hours ago 3 replies      
I know I'm getting to be a broken record, but two different attempts at an SSH server, neither of which work? Every other thing on this list is a reimplementation of something in Python's standard library or Twisted.

I mean, yes, that's a lot of code to write, and I'm impressed, but this just feels like yet more reinvention of the wheel.

nirvana 9 hours ago 1 reply      
1. You win. This contribution make me think there needs to be an open source awards show. Your "best contribution to a web platform in 2011" nomination is in the bag.

2. PG should be calling you with an invitation to the next YC class, not for this, but for everything you guys have accomplished in the last year.

TrevorBurnham 11 hours ago 0 replies      
Most of these are small utilities (e.g. node-mkdirp), but a few are really significant contributions to the Node community. node-bigint, for instance, is a very robust, efficient library for doing infinite-precision arithmetic (a fairly common necessity, since every number in JavaScript is a 64-bit float and there's no way of knowing when you lose precision).
jjm 11 hours ago 0 replies      
I like how everyone was drawn for NPM top. Got their likeness on point ha-ha. I wonder how many of these can be grouped in to a general utility package?
sylvinus 10 hours ago 0 replies      
90 is an astounding number of useful node modules :
jackfoxy 9 hours ago 0 replies      
Dang, Peteris! You and James just keep cranking it out. Looking forward to Testling.
mmahemoff 7 hours ago 0 replies      
Great that these are individual modules instead of just making a single "browserling" package.
thirty-thirty 11 hours ago 0 replies      

my stack is full of those modules!

rook2pawn 8 hours ago 0 replies      
these guys competed in the Node Knockout! You can see (and vote) for the browserling guys here http://nodeknockout.com/teams/replicants#votes
fooyc 8 hours ago 1 reply      
What's sad with this is that most of these modules would work in a browser if only they used asynchronous module definition.

That would have been even more awesome.

fla 10 hours ago 0 replies      
Truely amazing
Highly Successful Bootstrapped Startups softwarebyrob.com
221 points by davidw  3 days ago   68 comments top 26
DanielBMarkham 3 days ago 1 reply      
Bootstrapped, solo founder, and older-person-founder startups are very rarely mentioned in the press. Strangely enough, some stats show these startups are also the most prevalent. Thanks Rob!
bignoggins 3 days ago 1 reply      
I love being part of a bootstrapped startup. I have 100% control of the company, don't have to answer to investors, and can actually focus on making profit instead of trying to scale. Oh, and I'm traveling the world while doing it.
kevinburke 3 days ago 2 replies      
Surprised no one's mentioned Atlassian - started by two guys in their garage with $10,000 and now earning over $100 million in revenue per year. More info here: http://blogs.atlassian.com/news/2009/02/from_startup_to.html
blantonl 3 days ago 2 replies      
Bootstrapped startup owner here... I am of the opinion that if a business on the Web needs millions of dollars to get off the ground, then it's probably a business that isn't worth getting off the ground.

I realize that there are exceptions and there are ideas that need funding to get going, but the whole incestious culture of venture capitalists, investors, and startup idea owners often doesn't foster real innovation. It instead lines the pockets of a select few with millions of dollars. Just a slick redistribution of wealth.

d2 3 days ago 1 reply      
I've heard of 3 out of 10 of these highly successful startups. I think we call ourselves successes prematurely to try to accelerate the arrival of true success. Again today a very good friend who runs a startup with great potential trumpeted the fact that he is profitable. Looking deeper, turns out he's no longer pouring cash into the company, but unable to pay himself a salary.

Lets cut the bullshit guys. You're "highly successful" when you're able to pay yourself and your employees above market rate salaries and retain profit for growth.

Edit: ...as well as being able to start making a dent in the debt you may have accumulated during the cash burning phase of your startup. If you want a really fucking scary exercise, plot your cashflows to date and do a NPV or IRR calculation on the flows. You'll have quite the come-to-jesus moment and will realize how deep the hole is you need to climb out of before you can call yourself successful.

vaksel 3 days ago 4 replies      
half of them I never even heard of...just goes to show the lack of coverage for self funded companies
uurayan 3 days ago 0 replies      
I was just discussing this with my wife last night. My 2 friends and I bootstrapped our company for $300. Knowing that all the success we are enjoying now came from our hard work and that no one else can take any claim to our any part of our success is such an awesome feeling. I talk to a lot of local angels and VCs now and what they offer really doesn't seem that interesting to me anymore. The business I have now will probably never make hundreds of millions of dollars, but I don't feel the need or desire to hit those kind of numbers if it means I have to sacrifice my lifestyle now (a very awesome lifestyle).
fbuilesv 3 days ago 1 reply      
Some of you might already know about this, but 37Signals produces a series called Bootstrapped, Profitable & Proud where they interview bootstrapped companies with more than 1M in revenues.

You can see a list of interviewed companies at: http://37signals.com/bootstrapped

paraschopra 3 days ago 0 replies      
Great job, thanks for sharing! I had blogged about revenues of some more companies here: http://paraschopra.com/blog/personal/compilation-revenue-fig...
ditojim 3 days ago 0 replies      
bootstrapping makes your scrappy. the success is ever sweater when you did it yourself.
apostlion 3 days ago 0 replies      
Given that VC-backed startups are obviously receiving far more press than bootstrapped ones, is there any statistics on how widespread are former and latter, and how successful they are, in consumer Web?
g-garron 3 days ago 0 replies      
The great thing about not having to report to investors, is that you can focus on your job, and on your product.
You do not have to focus on profit (provided you can afford living with low income).

I love the story behind GitHub, they managed to live to a few bucks, and with patience all their effort is paying themselves, not having to share their effort with others.

Congratulations to those guys behind those Bootstrapped Startups.

Maro 3 days ago 0 replies      
I have a bootstrapped startup, I work long hours for 1/3 my market value (1/25 if I'd move to the US).

But, I wrote a distributed database and when we show it to prospective clients and they compare it to the competition and they benchmark it, we always come out on top in terms of performance and architecture. So, although it's not "happy times" right now, it's worth it.

jsherry 3 days ago 0 replies      
mathattack 3 days ago 0 replies      
Interesting article.

Reminds me of one of the lessons from Soul of a New Machine: forced scarcity can breed creativity. Too much money allows you to defer hard decisions for too long.

frankiewarren 3 days ago 0 replies      
I like the story of Airbnb's "Obama O's." I just read about it today. Respect for the hustle. - http://www.avc.com/a_vc/2011/03/airbnb.html
eda 3 days ago 0 replies      
I'm glad to see coverage of bootstrapped startups and the supportive comments. I've worked at both highly funded startups and most recently I've worked at a profitable bootstrap for the last 3.5 years. The bootstrap startup is definitely more fun... It's nice that we don't have any investors to answer to and micro-manage every aspect of our business and that also have their hands out to get paid first when an acquisition event occurs.
antr 3 days ago 0 replies      
Clicky is a great company with a great product, I've been using the paid version for some time now, and I can only say that they fit my company's needs better than other real-time analytics start-ups. Really happy that bootstrapped start-ups are as competitive and innovative as those which use VC financing.
alttab 3 days ago 1 reply      
I'd add MutualMobile. They are the largest mobile consulting and services firm in the market and straight out of Austin UT, started in a college dorm.
callmeed 3 days ago 0 replies      
I'm curious what the criteria is for "highly successful".

It might be too much to ask, but I wish I could see/know revenue or profit for all the companies on the list"especially the freemium ones.

emp_ 3 days ago 0 replies      
The media needs the sports-like entertainment that lives inside startups to sell their stories, don't get upset because these other successful businesses are not talked about all the time, they just are not that mainstream and IMO some people don't like the attention, so they go low profile and still are extremely successful, just like you know someone did something great at some point that changed your life, and you never got to know who did it.
dh 3 days ago 0 replies      
Love to see lists like this as there is way too much talk about VC backed companies that never have any real success and never even create any value with customers.
ChrisKelly 3 days ago 0 replies      
Hmm. Let's see. We're AirBnB. After 4 months of bootstrapping by selling Obama-O's, do we take $20K from YC? Of course! It's YC, and we can still bootstrap if we want. After a few more months, do we take $600K from Sequoia and another firm, and let rapacious VCs into our tent? Well, we're hungry because the Obama-O's ran out, so OK. The next year, do we let Ron Conway and Ashton Kutcher(!) and others give us $7.2M more? Tough decision--we can control everything and have a nice, small business like--what was that highly successful company? Carbonmade--and bring in $1M in revenues a year, 100% ours, or give up a third of the business for seven times that. What to do, what to do? We cave in to The Man and take the $7.2M. What, you seriously wouldn't want to hang with Ashton and Demi? Another year goes by and Mark Andreessen and Jeff Bezos want to join in with a crazy Russian and give us $112 million for another 10%. No way! This kind of offer insults our bootstrapping dignity. Besides, if we're highly successful like Carbonmade, we could make that much in 112 years on our own and keep 100% of it, after expenses. But we sell out anyway, at a billion-dollar valuation. We might each get a few hundred million with a successful IPO, but it's just not worth it compared to the satisfaction we could have if we owned 100% of a million-dollar company. Paul Graham must be ashamed of us. We drown our sorrows in an apartment in Saint-Tropez that we rented through AirBnB with Ashton and Demi. Bruce Willis stops by to say, "What's with the sad face, boys?" He's not as tall as we expected. We give him a glass of absinthe. The Mediterranean sun is not unpleasant.
ddon 3 days ago 0 replies      
Fotki.com never got funded, always were profitable and we are online for 13 years now. And I agree that bootstrapped companies mostly do not get covered by the press. When we did talk to the press in the last 13 years, one of question they ask is who are our investors, and when we tell them that we had no investors, their tone would change, and then they would loose interest, or just mention once about us somewhere at the end of the article :)
niyogi 2 days ago 0 replies      
Love how appsumo is mentioned at the bottom without any real quantitative statistics. Leadgen.
xal 3 days ago 1 reply      
37signals? :-)
Google App Engine Pricing Angers Developers, Kills PlusFeed readwriteweb.com
216 points by jzb  3 days ago   140 comments top 30
buff-a 3 days ago 5 replies      
Here's my complaint:

I, and many others, spent a lot of time figuring out how to write apps that do it the "app engine way":

  * Fast completes (30 second timeout)
* Offloading to task queues when you cant
* Channels
* Blobstore two-phase upload urls
* Mail eccentricities

We did so, because we believe Google when they told us If you write your apps in this really weird way then we will be able to give you scale and cost benefits that you wont be able to get elsewhere

We believed them, because it seemed reasonable. We laughed at those who complained that django would hit the 30-second limit: "Its not a general hosting! Figure out the App Engine way!" And we educated on how to do it right, and many were happy.

Well, it turns out that it is general purpose hosting, with all of the costs, and yet also with all of the (once rational, now bullshit) idiosyncrasies.


But that's not the biggest complaint. The biggest complaint is that when my friends and peers objected to App Engine, its strange requirements and its potential lock in, they were right and I am a fucking naive idiot. And I really don't like to be proven a naive idiot. I put my faith in Google's engineers and they have utterly destroyed my credibility. THIS more than anything is the cost to me.

ChuckMcM 3 days ago 3 replies      
Heh. TL;DR version - Google starts recovering their costs, hits people in unexpected places.

So back when I worked there Google had no clue what it cost to run their infrastructure at a fine grain level. Sure they knew the aggregate cost, that was easy, but knowing on an application level didn't exist. This was a problem since as more and more things were using the machines, how did you "bill" a department for their machine usage? That really crystallized when the bottom fell out in 2008 and suddenly there was going to be no more new machines/data centers for a while and everyone had to 'make do.'

They mobilized an effort to figure this out, its not like it isn't knowable, and ever the data driven company the first signs of light were appearing just as I was leaving. It should not be a surprise but they discovered many things they did not previously believe was true, and I don't doubt it has driven a lot of change going forward. One of the more interesting outcomes was that projects/products were actually getting cancelled if they cost more to run than they could generate in revenue (I'm looking at you Goog-411)

So this knowledge is being applied to GAE, which is great, its also another way to back compute some of their operational efficiencies.

But that it costs money to run stuff? Well that isn't really news is it? That it costs that much? Well there is the whole if it doesn't make money it will get cancelled threat.

And the kicker is pricing out the scarce resource. It looks (and I've been gone over a year and half so I am speculating based on this move on their part) like their 'scarce' resource is web server front ends. (the labeled "Frontend instance") Traditionally they've been like most multi-tier web properties split between front end machines which host the web facing stuff, and back end machines that do the heaving lifting and storing. And by this change one can reason that residency on the 'front end' is more valuable than crunching in the 'back end.'

I'm guessing PlusFeed gets a lot of web traffic. So they spend a lot of time 'actively' on the front side, and from their numbers they do practically nothing on the back side. This fits well with the sudden massive price increase.

This gives you an insight into Google's business dynamics as well. Where page-views are the limiting resource, and computation is not. When you look at it that way, you can see that most of their 'revenue' has to be delivered through their front end services, and so consuming that resource reduces (potentially) their income. Hence the charge inconsistency.

Now contrast that to Billy-Bob's Web Farm (fictitious service) where every machine in their data center can be a web server, and front end serving is trivial, its all about the bandwidth. Their pricing would probably be more gigabytes transferred.

I would not be surprised at all if it is impractical to run such 'translation' services (basically all web traffic very little compute) on a hosted environment like Google's.

pbh 3 days ago 2 replies      
What's most interesting to me about this article is that the management of GAE seems to actually be getting worse over time.

GAE has always had two main disadvantages. First, there is vendor lock-in because you code specifically to the data store, worker API, and so on (though arguably there are alternative platforms that implement the GAE API). Second, you cannot run custom code (custom C in some virtual machine) or have a custom architecture (if, say, Redis might be useful to have around). These disadvantages probably aren't changing and are probably necessary for auto-scaling, security of Google's infrastructure, and so on.

However, there are lots of little things that GAE has been getting wrong for a while that are totally unnecessary. Lack of hosted SQL support. Lack of SSL for custom domains. Just little things that are probably annoying to implement and boring, but totally necessary for real websites or websites just gaining traction. (I know these are in varying stages of early support at the moment.)

But now, the GAE team almost seems to want to actively disappoint users. With hosted SQL being a request for years, Guido appears to have spent a bunch of time re-architecting the API for the datastore instead. With this pricing increase, they're pushing the many developers who came to their platform based on price (due to the very interesting scaling properties of the Google front-end) off the platform.

Overall, I'm very confused.

nir 3 days ago 1 reply      
I think Google just doesn't really get how unique GAE was. It was a fantastic platform for small apps, and inevitable some percentage of these would grow to big, paying apps.

Also (sorry for the armchair quarterbacking here, can't resist..) it was exactly what Google can do better than anyone - best server infrastructure + Guido Van Rossums - while stuff like Google+ is exactly what Google haven't a clue how to do.

nicksdjohnson 2 days ago 1 reply      
Hi folks,

I'm on the App Engine team, and I just wanted to clarify one thing: The main difference between CPU hours and Instance hours is that CPU hours are charged based on CPU usage, while instance hours are based on wallclock time. The high ratio between the two you can see with PlusFeed is because it's spending a lot of time to serve each request, most of which is spent doing nothing - likely because it's doing outgoing HTTP requests.

Previously, we had no way to account for apps like this, that take a lot of wallclock time but very little CPU time, and as a result we couldn't scale them well. Under the new model, the charges reflect the real cost here - memory pressure. Every second an instance sits around waiting is a second that the memory occupied by that instance can't be used to serve other requests.

As others have pointed out, we're in the process of launching Python 2.7 support - it's currently in Trusted Tester phase - which will support multiple concurrent requests, and services like PlusFeed are likely to be able to take great advantage of that, reducing their instance hours by a large factor. Likewise, doing asynchronous URLFetches (where that's practical) can cut a huge amount off instance time.

dasil003 3 days ago 0 replies      
The strength of GAE is the magic scaling beans, but to take advantage of it you need to lock yourself in massively. It's probably not realistic to port an existing application that actually needs real scale to GAE given the complexity of most apps by the time they reach that point. Therefore, the key funnel for them is new apps with hopes of becoming truly massive. Fortunately for Google way more people dream of scaling than actually will, but they need to A) not scare poor startups away with the price today and B) not scare them that they're going to get bent over and raped on price changes later.

Personally I'll never touch GAE with a 10' pole simply because of the support issue and perpetual-beta-culture uncertainties.

Smrchy 3 days ago 2 replies      
I love using GAE and got 8 apps running currently. At first the new pricing model shocked me. But please take a 2nd look. Sure it's more expensive than the old model. But you can set the maximum number of idle instances in your Application Settings page. Just set it down so no more that X instances get spun up:

> The Idle Instances slider allows you to control the number of idle instances available to your application at any given time. Idle Instances are pre-loaded with your application code, so when a new Instance is needed, it can serve traffic immediately. You will not be charged for instances over the specified maximum. A smaller number of idle Instances means your application costs less to run, but may encounter more startup latency during load spikes.

There is another setting for latency:

> The Pending Latency slider controls how long requests spend in the pending queue before being served by an Instance. If the minimum pending latency is high App Engine will allow requests to wait rather than start new Instances to process them. This can reduce the number of instance hours your application uses, but can result in more user-visible latency.

So if you are fine with a little higher latency for your app then you can reduce your bill by a great deal. If you want all that GAE can offer with max. instances available and lowest latency you gotta pay - as you would when you run n instances at another cloud provider.

andymoe 3 days ago 2 replies      
An alternate perspective: Google App Engine is still a fine platform even with the new price increases. (Which they told us were coming by the way)

And by the time the pricing takes effect the updated python runtime should bring costs down even more.

The instance costs are comperable to Heroku AND you get a high availability data store AND the ability to store really huge amounts of data in the blobstore AND a CDN for serving images from said blobstore. Not to mention background processes, task queue, XMPP, memcache, Multitenancy and multiple versions of apps so you can easily roll things back or test out updates painlessly.

Try and replicate that setup on Heroku or AWS for anywhere near the costs and time that you can get there with app engine.

While you're fighting with AWS and playing sysadmin or trying to think of ways to bring down the costs of Heroku's database services by using RDS instead or being nickel and dimed by add-on fees I'll be shipping code. Code that actually takes advantage of the platforms strengths.

cHalgan 3 days ago 2 replies      
My understanding of all these GAE pricing story is that Google decided that GAE is not a strategic business and that business unit need to break even or they will be canceled. Does this make sense?
maxent 3 days ago 2 replies      
I think this comment from Wesley Chun on the GAE team is key:


"your app can be slashdotted or tweeted by demi moore -- http://adtmag.com/blogs/watersworks/2010/10/mobile-app-creat... -- or perhaps you may need to build/host something on the scale of both the royal wedding blog and event livestream with traffic numbers that are mindblowing -- http://googleappengine.blogspot.com/2011/05/royal-wedding-be... ... these are the reasons for using App Engine. it was not meant as free/cheap generic app-hosting but to provide a premium service that's difficult to get elsewhere in the market. if you're just after the former, there are plenty of options for you."

My take-away is that GAE is hard to justify unless your usage pattern is unpredictable and spike-y. I'm taking the long weekend to give dotcloud a serious test-drive.

cd34 3 days ago 2 replies      
1.5gb out with 880 frontend instance hours in 24 hours.

Someone needs to rethink their architecture.

gte910h 3 days ago 2 replies      
I'm wondering if google is just trying to encourage an architecture which is less bad for their site.

I'm guessing a small minority of apps were doing things in a way that was eating up tons more resources than they were paying for. I bet for many apps, this could end up no worse or better.

edtechdev 3 days ago 1 reply      
Yeah I still don't understand why the Khan Academy and other educational/open source developers are using Google App Engine when it suffers from vendor lock-in.
allad 3 hours ago 0 replies      
I also have an app on GAE. http://www.tubesmix.com
Right now there's no charge as there's only a couple hundred users and the resources used are low.
But this change worries me a lot. Even more so since all my backend code is tied to GAE infrastructure. This is very disappointing coming from Google. Since when did they become so nickel-and-dimey?!
ddon 3 days ago 0 replies      
We tried to use GAE several times on our heavy traffic production, and was just too slow. We contacted google several times, but never received any help from them. So, thanks to this, we don't use them and we are not affected but the price change.
herf 3 days ago 0 replies      
It sounds to me like the scarce resource was found to be RAM, not CPU. If an "instance" uses a big piece of RAM to serve a request, and doesn't give it up while waiting for a backend, then scalability is RAM-bound, not CPU-bound, and they should probably charge that way.
sasha-dv 3 days ago 3 replies      
That's unreasonably expensive. For $68.46 he payed for a day you can have an "el-cheapo" dedicated box or a great VPS for a month. I still don't understand why people trade a bit of system administration and superb performance for a vendor lock and insane prices.
aaronf 3 days ago 0 replies      
Our charges are going to be increasing from $0/day to $5-11/day. While bearable, it's a serious problem given so little notice, and disappointing since we invested in their infrastructure & optimized for their previous pricing plan. This is a serious hit for a bootstrapped startup getting off the ground. No doubt it will kill a lot of startups.
bane 3 days ago 0 replies      
In my mind, the problem is not so much the extreme pricing difference, but the change in what's being measured, so not only is there a price increase, but it's nearly impossible to figure out how to compare the old vs. new schemes vs. competitors.

The huge price jump is a serious problem, but the weird metrics switch makes it feel like such a bait and switch. I'm going to be highly surprised if this isn't challenged in court.

wccrawford 3 days ago 1 reply      
I think we're missing a big part of this...

How many users were using it?

heliodor 3 days ago 1 reply      
Can people list their choice for python hosting and the main benefits?

What are some good services layered on top of EC2 to provide more management and automation?

Does anyone have any experience with whether DotCloud is priced reasonably?

kennystone 3 days ago 1 reply      
His app generated no revenue, so any price other than trivial would have him jumping ship. Why does Google want apps like his?
mark_l_watson 2 days ago 0 replies      
A question for anyone on the AppEngine team that may also be useful for other developers:

I have an app that I want to deploy and control my costs. I would like to pay for 1 FE instance to always be running and limit temporary FE instances to a maximum of 1 (free?) instance when needed. I expect my app to have a relatively small number of users, but they will be active.

I would like to prevent the scheduler from ever spawning more than these 2 FE instances. Occasional unavailability when the site is busy is OK. Except for bandwidth and storage, I would like to know roughly what my costs will be.

Just to be clear, how do I set this up?

angusgr 3 days ago 1 reply      
Can anyone tell me how the new and old prices compare to running a similar app on AWS, Heroku or other competitors?

ie was GAE ridiculously cheap before compared to other options, and now comparable? Or was it somewhat cheaper than competitors before, and now somewhat more expensive?

I realise it's never that simple, but nearly everyone's complaints seem to be (understandably) given in relative terms of before vs. after. I'd be interested to know how it stacks up before vs. after vs. if-we'd-taken-another-route.

wavephorm 3 days ago 1 reply      
Everything Google does, they do in a half-assed sort of way. And it's getting really annoying. Even their core business of search is showing signs of neglect. SEO experts have learned to game the system such that the quality of search results is pretty abysmal now.

GAE is a half baked AWS. Google+ is a half baked Facebook. Google Docs is a half baked MSOffice. They have no blood in these projects and don't really care whether they succeed or not, which coincidentaly means they probably won't.

Google is getting absolutely clobbered in every category other than search advertising dollars. Their products wreak of ambivilence and neglect, and I'm surprised anyone expected GAE to be a good platform.

crizCraig 3 days ago 0 replies      
I've been developing for app engine since 2008 when it came out and absolutely love it. The price changes are a result of turning a successful and massively growing product into a profitable one a la search, youtube, etc... Google should be praised for this. The changes in price also accompany an SLA that guarantee developers will receive three years notice before a breaking API change or service shut down.

The SSL problem is a limitation in some browsers that causes the type of certificates that GAE needs to use a CNAME, not IP, based routing to display huge warnings.

rbanffy 3 days ago 3 replies      
I am currently playing with the idea of moving an application from all-GAE to part GAE, part EC2 with some spot instances running jobs when cheap enough. According to my sloppy math, this should reduce the load on the GAE side by at least 60%.

Anyway, this is all theoretical (in the worst sense of the word) - the app is not even public.

83457 3 days ago 1 reply      
Can someone please explain frontend versus backend instance processing? Does backend here mean processing that takes place in data storage systems?
davisml 3 days ago 2 replies      
It appears that the chart is being misinterpreted. The cost per hour is less under the new pricing and I believe the total hours is calculated for the month.
igorgue 3 days ago 1 reply      
I hope PlusFeed's author read this:

Man that's some nasty code, horrible, don't open source that kind of "code"... it's bad, even for a 5 minute projects, it's really bad.

Open Source software is not a dumpster of your bad code.

My Neighbor, Steve Jobs lisenstromberg.wordpress.com
218 points by ryanwhitney  5 days ago   44 comments top 19
truthseeker 5 days ago 8 replies      
Next up on HN:

Blog post from housekeeper of Mr. Steve about how exacting he is on some occasions and how kind he is on other.

I think Steve Jobs and his contributions to the tech world are extraordinary. I wish him well and hope he lives happily for a long long time. Just as I wish for anyone I know or do not know, that they live happily.

Steve is not a friend of either you or me.
I do not need to know how he was as a neighbor, his driving record, his family life or anything that does not concern his work.
I am not interested in those details of Steve or Salma Hayek or Steve Ballmer.

Can we stop senselessly idolizing people in areas that are not their expertise?

idlewords 5 days ago 1 reply      
If you've ever wondered what a pure name-drop is like when extended to multiple paragraphs, your wait is over.
padmanabhan01 5 days ago 3 replies      
This audio (6 min long) is worth a listen. Steve Jobs, when he was around 26 or so. http://www.achievement.org/autodoc/pagegen/brochure/p3.html
sriramk 5 days ago 1 reply      
I'm ashamed to admit that part of the reason for my wife (artithmetic on HN) and I to pick our current apartment in Palo Alto several months ago was because it was a stone's throw away from Jobs' house. He's been a long time hero of mine and when we got a chance to live close by, we jumped at it.

Bonus - we're even closer to several YC startups, I suspect if I shout loudly, the LikeALittle guys can hear it.

dctoedt 5 days ago 1 reply      
When [EDIT: you think] someone's dying, it's more satisfying to tell him (or her) how much you appreciate him, while he's still around to take some pleasure in it, than to attend the funeral wishing you'd done so.
idanb 5 days ago 0 replies      
A few months ago I had just taken a meeting in Palo Alto and went down the street to sit at a Starbucks to wait for a ride since I rode the caltrain and had no way to get around. I was doing some work when Steve Jobs walked in. My grandfather passed away from Pancreatic cancer and was by no means walking around having a coffee with friends at this stage. It was really inspiring to see him pushing through the condition and refusing to give up.

Some jerk kid walked up to him and asked if it'd be alright to take a picture with him. Steve dismissed him with such a confidence you wouldn't expect. I think in general a guy like that with such amazing ideas has to have this extremely thick shell to the world, but underneath I'm sure he's an amazing father, husband, and friend. I was really lucky to be there that day, definitely changed my perspective on a few things.

AndrewClyde 5 days ago 1 reply      
What a fantastic, feel-good piece on Steve. It's nice to know he's just like every other parent outside of Apple, and I'm glad someone remembered who he is as a person, not just a CEO.
napierzaza 5 days ago 0 replies      

Steve (yes I call him by his first name) live near me. As a neighbour. Just down the street. I have moments where he has acknowledged my existence. He even knows my waspy name.

oflannabhra 5 days ago 1 reply      
Honestly, I think the neighborly thing for the author to do is to allow Steve his privacy.
hans 5 days ago 0 replies      
I know he's going, we all do, but man it feels like a kick in the gut for tech. Yes we know tech is actually bullshit, in the grand scheme of things, to keep us occupied, but somehow no Jobs means something less ... like the suits will kill off all the beauty because they don't understand that.

We need a new big visionary in the higher boardrooms but I don't see any, lately they're all just wall street and more so with time.

WordSkill 5 days ago 0 replies      
Nice article but I am Steve Jobs' neighbor on the other side and he has been nothing but a nightmare for my family, especially all the nude gardening.
dvdhsu 5 days ago 0 replies      
One or two Halloweens ago, I went over to Steve's house. While everybody was waiting in line, it turned out that Steve was standing behind a doorway, where everybody was going through.

He just stood there. Nobody noticed until they started walking back having gotten their treats from the front door.

I was impressed. Impressed because he was not the one handing out the treats, but the one standing behind a doorway, where nobody noticed him.

tedkalaw 5 days ago 0 replies      
This reminded me that the people that seem to know the most ABOUT Steve Jobs don't actually know Steve Jobs. Really cool to read.
gabaix 5 days ago 0 replies      
Marc Zuckerberg goes past my house almost every week in Palo Alto. Seeing on the streets someone you see in the media helps making him normal.
trekgunner 5 days ago 1 reply      
I just checked CNN. I had to because the piece at the end made it sound like he ea dead.
hnsmurf 5 days ago 1 reply      
I don't get this one. I would assume that you'd have to be extremely wealthy to be Steve Jobs's neighbor. As a result you'd think bumping into other extremely wealthy, successful people would be routine.
espressodude 5 days ago 0 replies      
The human touch to this one makes it the best article I've read about Steve Jobs.
capkutay 5 days ago 0 replies      
Old palo alto represent!
elb0w 5 days ago 0 replies      
Thank god this is on HN, not sure what I would of done without reading this article. Lets make sure to spread this one around folks.
I just got meta-copied creatingev.com
222 points by d_r  5 days ago   37 comments top 13
softbuilder 5 days ago 1 reply      
In a country with a billion people, even if you're one in a million, there's still 1000 people just like you.
moonlighter 5 days ago 1 reply      
Something is a bit fishy with that favicon. The version used by the 'rippers' doesn't use transparency, whereas Tian's favicon does have one.

That favicon source (there are probably others):

ig1 5 days ago 2 replies      
I feel a bit disappoint that this has got so many votes on HN, when a simple Google image search shows that the icon in question is a simply a freely licensed image produced by FreeIconsWeb that turns up when you search for "copy icon".

I'm guessing the author of this article knew that (presumably that's where he got it from) but chose to omit that rather critical point from his post to make it seem more favourable to himself.

Link to original image: http://www.freeiconsweb.com/Icons-show/Freeicons/Copy.png

geuis 5 days ago 1 reply      
The author hasn't included a link to the "copy factory" website. I'm curious about what that link is, because I have noticed that Chrome will show favicons despite no favicon.ico being equipped on a site. I have seen this mainly has happened on local apps where I know for certain I am not serving one yet one shows up. I would like to check the "copy factory" site to see if they aren't defining one either, and if the author is simply seeing an artifact from his browser.
insraq 5 days ago 1 reply      
Well as far as I know, the 'rippers' claimed by author has existed for a while now. This tweet is posted on Jul. 16 (http://www.weibo.com/1655212723/l4EWMiVcl ) while the author's post is posted on Aug. 30. So I would say this is just a coincident rather than a rip-off. And I believe the author should spend a little more time doing some research before accusing the wrong person.
meric 5 days ago 0 replies      
Don't feel too bad, you spent a mere 2.5 hours, and as a result a website that took probably 10 times that effort popped up. You lose the personal gain from the project, but the valued created as a result of 150 minutes of work is very efficient!
tlrobinson 5 days ago 0 replies      
I'd like to see them list each other as copies of themselves.
sien 5 days ago 1 reply      
Is there a Chinese copy of HN?
zhang_rui 5 days ago 0 replies      
Author is actually Tianfang Li. As an entrepreneur he is famous in China. I did not think he would have time to make other projects.
Shenglong 5 days ago 3 replies      
What's the consensus in protecting yourself from getting copied in China? Launch there first?
pbhjpbhj 5 days ago 0 replies      
I wonder if all these companies are really negatively impacting creativity and inventiveness?
vynch 5 days ago 1 reply      
haha this is one of the reasons I stick to iOS apps!!
jackjun 5 days ago 1 reply      
The webapp seem to be built using Twitter Bootstrap and Heroku. I would have thought Chinese programmers who resort to copying would be using older technology.
Why Developers Never Use State Machines skorks.com
219 points by fogus  4 days ago   88 comments top 43
patio11 4 days ago 2 replies      
I use them extensively for Appointment Reminder. In addition to modeling the business logic pretty intuitively (particular types of input can cause an appointment to go from :scheduled to :confirmed, :confirmed appointments should not generate additional reminder calls but :scheduled ones should, etc), they're virtually indispensable for doing Twilio applications. I'll have more to say about that at TwilioConf (and will probably post my presentation afterwards). If you do not model call state with a state machine, anything more complicated than "Hit 1 to talk to sales, hit 2 to talk to support" turns into an ugly ball of spaghetti code with lots of sharp edges, poor testability, and crushing amounts of technical debt getting in the way of maintaining or extending anything.

After I got more comfortable with actually using them for real work (as opposed to "cute toy from CS class"), I started seeing FSMs everywhere I looked in my projects.

For one thing, they make analytics a lot easier to slot into your system. For example, I record the fact of interesting events like e.g. purchases and send it off to KissMetrics or internal analytics stuff for graphing/reporting/auditing/etc. That gets done in my controllers, and it results in a whole lot of duplicative code which I often forget to write. (It's easy to miss that e.g. if I credit somebody manually for a purchase that should count as a purchase, even though it is under admin functions rather than the purchasing pathway. After all, if I forget to write that log code, all that happens is my stats get silently borked.)

This could get fairly easily solved by having the logging code aware of the change in the user's status, which is about three lines if you have a state machine, and won't put the logging logic in 12 different places in your app or cause you to have to pollute the user model with a big ol' case statement of doom. Plus, if you want to log more stuff, you naturally go into the log logic and make it do more things when the right events bubble to it, rather than chasing down a) who "owns" the event or b) where the event happens.

fab13n 4 days ago 9 replies      
Having used state machines a lot for embedded development, I find that they have one huge drawback: the resulting C code is unreadable, which turns maintenance into a nightmare.

SM have a key quality: they are a compact and unambiguous way for specifying a behavior. If your system's behavior is set in stone, it's worth specifying it as a SM and implementing it as one. This SM is also great to include in a spec, standard, RFC etc. But if the system evolves, small changes can require dramatic reshaping of the machine.

Also, they can lead to very efficient implementations, especially if you don't have the benefits of a serious OS with a fancy scheduler underneath.

tseabrooks 4 days ago 1 reply      
Pretty much every embedded system used for a consumer electronics device is driven by a state-machine. They are really fairly fundamental to embedded development. I suspect this guy is talking about (and dealing with) mostly web developers and people who don't sit so close to the metal.

In my current position it's entirely expected and reasonable to write some code and then half way through go back and rip parts of it out and turn it into a statemachine. Though generally we produce fairly detailed designs of our SMs first.

JoeAltmaier 4 days ago 1 reply      
Use them all the time, have for all my career.

They organize complex code, dissect complex set-flag-here-and-test-there spaghetti into a matrix of states and events that can be exhaustively examined and debugged.

Yes you have to organize your code to feed the machine (Vol is hungry! We must feed Vol!) But you have to organize your code somehow, and feeding a state machine can actually be easier to understand that flag-setting. In fact, it makes it absolutely clear what an event is associated with - the machine it feeds.

mmahemoff 4 days ago 0 replies      
State machines are a form of declarative logic as opposed to procedural, and declarative is often superior for modelling real-world activity.

Procedural logic tends to be brittle - small changes have unintended consequences. Declarative models tend to be more robust and, especially with domain-specific languages, safer for domain experts to manipulate. You can certainly design domain-specific languages for the subset of declarative systems that are state machines.

I've happily used state machines in enterprise projects. One was tracking rates of financial instruments, where they would be in various states of validity (i.e. is it a live offer?). Another was a logistics app, where data would move through various states of being cleansed and approved, or rejected. We built a UI around it. By isolating the state definitions and their transitions, it was easy to validate the program's model with business exprts.

CPlatypus 4 days ago 0 replies      
I disagree with the author; most developers' attitudes toward state machines are poisoned not by academic experience but by experience with other developers' half-assed state machines. Back in '93 or so I used state machines extensively for protocol handling within HACMP's cluster manager. It worked very well, but there were still complaints which all came down to the broken-up control flow that state machines introduce:

* The code can be harder to understand, even for those accustomed to the model, because of the need to maintain context manually across states and events. Let's face it: having your variables on the stack is awfully convenient, even if there are good reasons not to do things that way.

* Speaking of stacks, the #1 complaint I used to get was that with the FSM stack traces would only go back to the FSM engine with no history of previous transitions. This is why IMO any decent FSM implementation must keep some history itself.

* A related issue is that static code analysis can't follow through the transition table to recognize the actual flows of control. A good FSM-based program must therefore include stub programs (which can be automatically generated) which will invoke actions in expected sequences so that code checkers can find invalid references, leaks, missing unlocks, and son on.

I like FSMs and think they should be used more. Nonetheless, if you gave me a state machine with ad hoc context management, no history and no reasonable way to generate test stubs, I'd barf too. If more people implemented good state machines, more people would recognize their benefits.

ender7 4 days ago 2 replies      
Can anyone recommend a good introduction to using state machines in code? Especially something in javascript/python? I know what an SM is and how it works, I just want to know how to use an SM library to actually do all these cool things.
mas644 4 days ago 1 reply      
State machines are useful because they're
1) computationally fast
2) simple to implement
3) easy to read [up to a certain size]

The big problem with state machines relates to the number 3 and regards the general concept of "state". Managing state is the challenge of computation! As you add states and transitions, the complexity increases dramatically, exponentially in some cases. This is why novice programmers struggle to manage developing large applications: they depend on global state and side-effects to perform computation rather than creating isolated components (classes, methods/functions)

That is why we use higher level abstractions provided by programming languages. We use state machines unknowingly in our code every time we have a switch or a conditional statement. When we use design patterns such as the GoF state pattern, we are implementing a state machine. When we build closures in functional languages, those can be considered state machines (in an abstract way). It's just that we're doing it in a more intuitive, higher-level way.

What I'm getting at is that computer programs inherently contain state machines. Recall from computer science that a a stored program computer (e.g. Turing machine, Von Neumann architecture) is just a state machine with an unlimited memory. When we deal with more complexity, it's not wise to attempt to model the problem with a state machine. Using the constructs of a high level language are easier to deal with and underneath the hood, the appropriate state machines are being created.

masklinn 4 days ago 0 replies      
It's used a lot in Erlang, FWIW. It's used so much that OTP has a built-in finite state machine behavior[0].

Of course having nicely isolated processes probably helps noticing that you have an ad-hoc state machine on your hands.

[0] http://www.erlang.org/doc/design_principles/fsm.html

moondowner 4 days ago 0 replies      
I (as a Java developer) use state machines often - and know other developers who do same too. I use mostly enums (though there are other ways of achieving it), as explained in this post:

Java Secret: Using an enum to build a State machine: http://vanillajava.blogspot.com/2011/06/java-secret-using-en...

super_mario 4 days ago 3 replies      
Simple, because most developers are not computer scientists i.e. no formal training in finite automata, computability, complexity, nondeterminism, regular expressions, non regular languages, context free grammars and languages, Turing machines, halting problem and underlying math in general.

If they did, trust me they would use state machines without too much reservation where appropriate. But as it is, the concept is foreign to most and good ones intuit their way into implementing one perhaps (just guessing here).

wccrawford 4 days ago 0 replies      
Upon reading this, I realized I had never really looked into state machines much. In my searching, I found a Coffeescript state machine that has a nice chess-based example:


davedx 4 days ago 3 replies      
This man has never heard of video game A.I. programming :)
Maro 4 days ago 0 replies      
I spent the last 3 years writing a distributed database which is basically a state machine (it's built on top of Paxos).


kennu 4 days ago 1 reply      
I've always used a state machine whenever I've parsed XML using an event based parser (SAX).

Although lately I've been replacing an explicit state variable with a stack containing the current element path, since that's pretty easy to do using modern languages.

perfunctory 4 days ago 1 reply      
I never understood why one needs a framework or a library for state machines. Can't you just write a switch statement.
pointyhat 3 days ago 1 reply      
In my experience, why "developers" never use state machines:

a) Most I speak to had a Z-rate CS education which scraped a bit of OO design in Java and don't know they really exist.

b) Most languages they cut their first code in are about puking data around from SQL to the web which rarely if ever requires an FSM.

c) Someone thumped them over the head with "Windows Workflow for dummies" which is then assumed to be the answer to all stateful problems.

d) It looks hard so they don't bother.

e) "developers" should not be confused with "computer scientists". It's "builders" versus "engineers".

conductor 4 days ago 1 reply      
If you are a C developer, try Ragel [http://www.complang.org/ragel].
I use it lot, also can be easily pared with the Lemon parser generator.
bchallenor 4 days ago 0 replies      
The Rust language (by Mozilla) is putting statically verifiable state machines in the type system:


It's based on Typestate, a really good 1986 paper:


I hope this idea catches on in other programming languages.

splicer 4 days ago 0 replies      
FSMs are very common on the embedded systems I work on. In fact, I often find that my coworkers use them too much. For instance, sometimes a DSP filter would be a much cleaner and maintainable solution. That said, if you work on embedded systems and you've never used a FSM, you're probably doing it wrong ;)
wslh 4 days ago 0 replies      
State Machines are also useful when you need to develop on asynchronous environments but think in a more synchronous way.
relix 4 days ago 1 reply      
I discovered how state machines can be practical when checking the source code of Spree, the rails e-commerce engine. The checkout-process is a state machine.

I'd highly recommend using state machines for multi-step forms. It feels very natural and keeps you sane, I believe it should be a best practice.

KevinMS 4 days ago 0 replies      
Mail servers are state machines. The SMTP protocol is all about state.

In a way any web app with a login is also a state machine - there's the logged in state, and the not logged in state.

erlang has a very effective state machine library(behavior). But the downside is that it's erlang. http://www.erlang.org/doc/design_principles/fsm.html

signa11 4 days ago 0 replies      
anybody writing networking-protocol code, embedded systems etc. cannot help but use them. to me it seems that the entire article is pretty narrowly focussed on folks doing web development exclusively.

also, fwiw, i think, couroutines are to state-machines as subroutines are to goto. the best tutorial on teh web on this is, imho, by dave-beazley here: http://www.dabeaz.com/coroutines/index.html

foobarbazoo 4 days ago 0 replies      
SproutCore has an entire statechart framework built into it. Not sure where the OP is getting his data...
erikb 4 days ago 0 replies      
Not sure if I understand the author correctly, but it seems to me, that he advises to write the state machine behaviour down as code (in form of a class? api? little frameowork?) when you start a project, so that you will be able to use a cleanly written interface for your state machine when the project gets bigger. Is my understanding correct?

From my experience a state machine is more of a pattern then a real object. Implementing it on the fly is what worked best so far, for me. Of course there is a point where it gets nasty because of complexity. But first that is always the case (complexity IS nasty) and second overcommiting to structure and architecture increases the complexity already in the beginning and might hurt more then it helps. At least fully coding all possible state machine behaviour as the first default task ifor every new project doesn't seem to be a smart thing to do.

bmcleod 4 days ago 0 replies      
I've been adding a state machine whenever I find myself adding a state column for a couple of years now.

I have always found this streamlining at least one change in the couple of months after initial implementation.

phamilton 4 days ago 0 replies      
While I don't use state machines in code that often, I do use them on paper all the time.
gte910h 4 days ago 0 replies      
There are over 10 occasions I can remember using one specifically in a project. I'm sure I've used them several more times.

Then again, I think they're far more common in the embedded world than elsewhere.

sid0 4 days ago 1 reply      
most state machines you're likely to need in your day-to-day development have nothing in common with their computing theory counterparts

I don't follow this? The core of whichever state machines I write seem to be DFAs, with the alphabet being events causing transitions.

nkh 4 days ago 0 replies      
Can anyone recommend a good python library for state machines and example code of its use?
pnathan 4 days ago 0 replies      
I don't understand the problem. State machines always seemed like a reasonable choice to a stateful system making transitions between states.

It's possible to build some gorgeous state machine networks with lambda functions and dictionaries.

hessenwolf 4 days ago 0 replies      
I think in state machines all the time, and I have it second hand that telecoms services in South America mostly run on state machines.
cpeterso 3 days ago 0 replies      
"A Computer is a state machine. Threads are for people who can't program state machines." -- Alan Cox
radicalbyte 4 days ago 0 replies      
They're used all the time. A workflow engine is basically a big state machine. They're used all the time in the Enterprise.

In object orientated software engineering the State pattern is a pattern for cleanly implementing a state machine* whilst avoiding horrible switch or massive nested if-then statements.

philgo20 4 days ago 0 replies      
We use FSM to deal with the hiring/applicant flow at http://matchfwd.com

FSM are very common in video games. I've also worked with one in a (very very) big engineering/CAD software when FSM was managing the whole approval/review/audit flow .

It seems there just less common with web dev in general.

UrLicht 4 days ago 0 replies      
I didn't get a CS degree and therefore had no experience with state machines until I started programming professionally. Maybe that's why I took to them so quickly and used them from the get-go on my personal project. Their usefulness is so obvious.
swah 4 days ago 0 replies      
Do you guys think a drawing program should be more easily modeled with a FSM?
whatgoodisaroad 4 days ago 0 replies      
I literally just finished writing a state machine before opening Hacker News.
probablyrobots 4 days ago 0 replies      
I agree with the discussion here. State machines are very useful. The best thing about them is how easy they makes documentation. You just draw a state diagram and you're done!
schiptsov 4 days ago 0 replies      
guess what is nginx? ^_^
oinksoft 4 days ago 0 replies      
I think the author should bold, quote, and italicize more phrases.
albertzeyer 4 days ago 1 reply      
This is a stupid statement. Pretty much every code depends on a state (i.e. the content of the heap memory) and is thus a state machine (by its most generic definition).

I think he is referring mostly to a finite state machine, though. But even then, you have that quite often somehow in your code (think of global boolean variables).

       cached 6 September 2011 02:11:01 GMT