hacker news with inline top comments    .. more ..    9 Apr 2017 Ask
home   ask   best   2 years ago   
Ask HN: What are pros and cons of PostgreSQL and MySQL?
145 points by stanhou  12 hours ago   163 comments top 32
mrmondo 10 hours ago 6 replies      
From many years of hosting both - MySQL seems easier at first but there are so, so many problems with its internal design that hide problems until its too late. PostgreSQL in my eyes is engineered in a much smarter way and has sensible defaults. PostgreSQL won't implement something unless it's _going to work_ and work properly. MySQL is analogous to software like Drupal and 'hobbiest' projects that have grown organically without proper engineering - and when it's too late you realise you're missing data, MySQL makes it easy to do things the wrong way, PostgreSQL enforces you do things the right way. We've also found that PostgreSQL performance far outshines MySQL as long as you've setup basic things like shared buffer sizes etc correctly.
Shelnutt2 5 hours ago 1 reply      
Currently we are using MariaDB for most database needs. The main reason we've continued to use MariaDB is for the multi-master replication. It is simple and easy to setup, we've designed our applications assuming there is always a write master, but aware of possible slag lag. So far having a multi-master setup is not as simple or robust in PostgresSQL.

We also use tokudb storage engine for a large number of servers. This engine is designed for datasets that do not fit into memory, and we've had a great experience with it. We are able to load CSV's in 1/3 to 1/5th the time of innodb. Most queries aggregate queries run faster, there is online index creation and column changes. From a DBA prospective tokudb prints detailed statuses in the show processlist! It is definitely a niche storage engine, and not right for all cases but this has contributed to our continued use of MariaDB of PostgreSQL.

With PostgreSQL 10 things are looking interesting. We tested out 9.6 with it's parallel query and saw some significant improvements on aggregation queries. It was not enough by itself to warrant use moving off of MariaDB but has me very excited going forward.

MariaDB is not sitting still, there are many improvements coming to 10.2 which should be released soon. For most applications I'd use whatever database you are familiar with. If you have a specific case, terabytes of data, millions of incoming writes, requirements for live aggregation, that is where the PostgreSQL vs MariaDB really gets exciting.

jgowdy 5 hours ago 5 replies      
ITT: Many people bashing MySQL for the exact things that OP is referring to in "Many cons have been fixed."

MyISAM isn't used anymore. MySQL has ACID transactions and foreign keys. Get over it. The engine is still there for users who want to use it and that's not a reason to knock MySQL.

Almost every one of the correctness and SQL standard flaws in MySQL is handled by the sqlmode flag. It allows users to choose correct behavior, but doesn't suddenly break the millions of MySQL apps when they upgrade. To suddenly break millions of apps to be correct by default without sufficient time for apps to migrate makes no sense.

The fact is, MySQL is significantly faster for simple CRUD applications which is really common in today's REST and Microservice designs.

That being said, Postgres is an amazing RDBMS, and would probably become the #1 database server if administration tasks like SHOW DATABASES weren't accomplished through \l (or if \l where a shortcut).

Postgres users wonder why people use MySQL. They wonder why people use NoSQL when storing JSON in Postgres can be faster. The fact is, the learning curve of Postgres is needlessly higher than these other systems.

tjelen 10 hours ago 1 reply      
Here are some issues that I've seen becoming important when scaling to a higher traffic with both MySQL and PostgreSQL (we're running both for different kinds of databases). Some of this is second-hand from my colleagues, so it might not be exact:

* Thread-per-connection (as opposed to process-per-connection with PG) means much lower memory overhead with many concurrent connections; with PG you might need to use something like pgbouncer, which doesn't come without its own issues.

* Logical replication; the MySQL format is compatible between minor release versions (e.g. between all 5.x releases), which enables upgrading individual replicas or master without complete shutdown. With PG this often a becomes way more complex.

* Better caching/buffer management. Essentially, InnoDB has its own implementation of LRU cache while PG relies on kernel page cache. This generally allows finer tuning on the database configuration level and you don't have dive into kernel page cache tuning (which will be always OS-specific).

EDIT: most of this stuff is probably even better described in the Uber article, linked in other comments here.

rawnlq 10 hours ago 4 replies      
Uber switched from mysql to postgres in 2013:


but switched back to mysql in 2016 which generated a lot of discussion:


There were a lot of followup posts afterwards arguing both sides if you search for them:


mcv 15 minutes ago 0 replies      
I happened to be talking about this with a couple of friends just moments ago. Their opinion basically amounted to this:

* MySQL is a really awful database. It's usable only for small hobby projects, like a simple Wordpress site or so. For serious datasets, it's a horror. Complex queries on large amounts of data are just broken. Many features don't work or work incorrectly. The design is fundamentally flawed.

* Use PostgreSQL instead.

* If you absolutely have to use MySQL, use MariaDB instead. It's a fork that fixed some of the issues.

* Still better use PostgreSQL. Or even Oracle or SQL Server. They're fine, MySQL is not.

mamcx 32 minutes ago 1 reply      
All the talk here and everywhere have convinced me that:

- MySql is the choice for niche workloads and to be used by experts not only in DB but in MySql Quirks.

- PG is the sane choice for everyone. Experts benefit more, but inexperienced developers will be better served from a more solid foundation, and still PG is so good that will be along your side for years to come.

PG maybe will not shine in some niche workloads but we are talking about problems that most DO NOT HAVE.


Years before, I have read (and believed!) that "PHP, MySql, JS" was "better" for inexperienced (or new) developers, because are more "easy" to learn and use.

Then eventually is show how facebook and others used them.

However, after +18 years on the field, I become more and more convinced that is totally the reverse:

- PHP, JS, MySql, etc are tools for experts.

- More strict tools are better for everyone.

- Only expert will use correctly any tool, even if have quirks.

- This is even more notorious if the tool is more dynamic than static, or provide more "freedom"/less "safety", like C VS. Pascal.

- More well designed or strict tools provide equal benefits to experts, but sometimes a tool with not safety-protection allow to do hacky things easier (or possible).

ddebernardy 8 hours ago 3 replies      
MySQL works fine if you chiefly interact with your DB through an ORM or using basic queries.

Postgres shines if you need advanced functionality: recursive queries, lateral joins, window functions, foreign data wrappers, partial indexes, advanced types... The list of things MySQL doesn't do as well or at all, be it user facing or under the hood, is fairly long.

There are plenty of examples of both DBs scaling successfully in the wild.

IMO it's a coin toss decision for most CRUD apps. For more advanced apps, you might want to pick Postgres over MySQL for the same reason some companies prefer niche languages over Java or PHP: the pool of competent engineers is smaller but tends to be of higher quality.

falcolas 3 hours ago 2 replies      
Disclaimer - I worked professionally with MySQL for several years, and actually don't mind using it. I've also used PosgreSQL professionally, and don't mind using it either.

The best advice I can offer is, "Use what you're more comfortable with." Both can be configured on a single machine to serve a ton of traffic. Both can be backed up to recover when they falling over. Both can be configured to keep your data consistent and safe. Don't worry about scaling, don't worry about sharding or how much better indexing method A is than B. Worry about your application.

Now that the obvious is out of the way, I personally prefer MySQL over PostgreSQL. It will be easier to scale when the need arises (the corollary to "avoid premature optimization" is "design to make optimizations easier"), it performs like a madman when configured properly, and there are simply more people out there who can help you configure it properly.

Tangent time: yes, it is comparatively feature poor. I can't store native JSON documents in it, I can't run Python stored procedures, I can't create nearly the same breadth of indexes. Then again, I have never needed to. JSON maps nicely to objects, and an ORM maps those objects (somewhat less nicely) to native tables and columns. I don't run stored procedures. I use purpose built tools for handling (for example) full text indexing when the built-in searches get too slow.

My biggest question, when everyone points out how many features PosgreSQL offers, is "why are you doing that in the database?" Your database is your biggest chokepoint. It's your biggest point of failure. If you're using it for anything more than "transactionally store and retrieve data", you're asking for even more trouble when it goes down.

Not if, when.

It also makes scaling harder; if you're doing most of your computations in the DB, you have to scale the DB when one machine can no longer handle it. Scaling DBs is inherently harder than scaling just about any other component in your stack; you can't just add another server to the pool.

In summary, if you use your database as a database, and only as a database, either option will stand you in good stead. The biggest advantage MySQL offers at that point is that there are simply more experts out there who can help you with it when you need that help (and will probably cost you less professionally).

thom 10 hours ago 1 reply      
If you are just looking for something to point an ORM at, you are probably fine with MySQL, you may see performance gains, and administration is probably a little more straightforward (and certainly more googlable).

If you spend actual time in the database using SQL, Postgres offers vastly more functionality, e.g. window functions, broader and more mature GIS support, more data modelling options. Postgres also certainly _can_ outperform MySQL in a variety of situations - it supports different indexing options (i.e. last I checked MySQL didn't have partial indexes), and is moving to more parallelism in its query plans. MySQL's partitioning support is a little more natural than Postgres's but that's changing in 10.0.

So, I would say, if you just want a back end for an app and have never _really_ cared about your RDMBS, use MySQL or whatever you're most familiar with. If you have complex query requirements, time series data, analytics workloads etc, try Postgres.

jhonyhacker 29 minutes ago 0 replies      
Postgres. The main reason I enjoy Postgres is because it is more standards compliant than MySQL, which makes it a bit easier to find documentation because it doesn't need to be specific to Postgres and easier to port to other standards-compliant RDBMSes.I have had a much easier time scaling Postgres with master-slave replication (it's only just come out in version 9 though). Also partitioning in Postgres is super-easy.I don't know how MySQL fairs these days, but Postres is completely transaction ACID compliant.I find user management much easier in Postgres. You create the user and then specify where they are allowed to connect from in a file. MySQL uses a separate user for each host pattern they want to connect from.permalinkembedsavegive gold
nottorp 8 hours ago 2 replies      
This is not a technical reason, but MySQL is now owned by Oracle, which carries a whole host of risks if you're a small fry.A technical comparison should be done between MariaDB and Postgres if you ask me...
cygned 1 hour ago 0 replies      
Using Postgres in Docker (for development of course!) is interestingly challenging, if you have a Windows host - due to the architecture. All our devs are working with macOS or Linux now.
no1youknowz 9 hours ago 3 replies      
I've migrated from MySQL to Postgres to use CitusDB (for a company project, many years ago).

For my own startup which the primary use-case is analytics, I have moved back from Postgres to MemSQL.

The four reasons were :-

1) In-memory rowstore, thus eliminating my in-memory nosql dependency.

2) The ability to join in-memory tables with disk to provide up-to the second data is awesome.

3) Multiple read/writer group nodes.

4) The biggest for me. Columnar storage.

Some examples on how columnar storage is so awesome.

Note that I am comparing MariaDB vs MemSQL on a old desktop. 8 cores, 8 GB Ram, HD (non ssd) drive.

- A query with a count of 1 table with 50m rows.

MariaDB - 49.60 sec

MemSQL - 1.12 sec

- A query with a count, sum, where clause and group by, with 50m rows.

MariaDB - 17 min 44.84 sec

MemSQL - 8 seconds


Here are some things to be aware. Prior to migrating over to Citus. We were shopping for MySQL consultants to see whether they could improve on the above figures. They quoted $70-100k to work on the project, without guaranteeing results.

With Citus I was able to see far better results and this is why the company switched over. However fast forward to now, MemSQL beats Citus soundly. 1 desktop beats a cluster.

I wager, that with a MemSQL cluster with decent hardware on the cloud, I will be seeing sub 1 second queries across the board.

Oh and the amount of data? It's tens of billions of rows a month. That's the workload I'm talking about here.


This post isn't to bash postgres. I loved using it. If Postgres 11/12, included columnar storage. I would literally scream! :)

mybrid 4 hours ago 0 replies      
This kind of question is meaningless in my opinion without the workload being defined. For example, is this for transaction processing like for banking or web programming of social networking like with Facebook?

One also needs to consider the entire landscape. For example, the LAMP stack is mature community with out-of-the-box, ready-to-ship web sites. There exists lots of support and tools. Software stacks like Django for Python typically have community involvement for a particular database. If one is using an ORM like SQLAlchemy, what is SQLAlchemy best used with?

Here are just some of the things that should be qualified when asking database choice:.1. Transaction support.2. Scale out support. 3. NoSQL and other data store integration.4. Cloud support if deploying in a cloud. Really depends on your cloud vendor.5. Location, location, location. Is this an internal application on your company LAN, or a social networking application to be installed around the world? Replication in MySQL quite useful.6. SQLite? Why did you exclude SQLite? I'm assuming because the person posting this question already knows something about the workload that defeats SQLite? What is that workload? Testing against SQLite is trivial, just create an in memory database. 7. ETL support. Are bulk updates due to ETL processing of files and such common place? Bulk updates happen better when indexes are not attached, etc. 8. Reporting support. 9. Denomalized versus normalized support. It is common place in web applications with data distributed applications around the world to shard a database table, completely denormalized.

The point is that designing a database schema is heavily dependent on the expected workload. The choice of SQLite, PostesSQL , MySQL, SQL server, Oracle or what have you depends heavily on the workload. It is nonsensical to ask what the right tool for the job is without knowing the job.

pgris 4 hours ago 1 reply      
Maybe I'm wrong, but last time I checked, adding a column to an existing (big) table in MySQl locked the table for a long time (like hours), and the same operation in posgress was finished in almost no time
jonbaer 4 hours ago 0 replies      
The 2 pro things that impressed me on both platforms from recent builds are probably under utilized: On PostgreSQL: Logical decoders (https://www.postgresql.org/docs/9.4/static/logicaldecoding.h...) and on MariaDB, the CONNECT engine (https://mariadb.com/kb/en/mariadb/connect/)
chvid 11 hours ago 2 replies      
I have used PostgreSQL extensively before but now I just use MySQL. It is easy to install, maintain and use - even on a Windows box.

Basically it gives me everything I need in a relational database and let's me worry about other things.

voganmother42 7 hours ago 1 reply      
Mysql/Innodb: index organized tablePg: heap table

depending upon workload this can be significant.


nailk 8 hours ago 0 replies      
Is there something like TokuDB or MyRocks for PostgreSQL?These things allow to reduce disk space usage by several times.
pella 7 hours ago 1 reply      
For a performance: Check the TechEmpower FrameworkBenchmarks - Data updates - check the 'DB' columns

- https://www.techempower.com/benchmarks/#section=data-r13&hw=...

-> Pg - Pg - Pg - Mo - Pg - Pg - Pg - Pg - My - My - My - My


Round14 - Preliminary data!


-> Pg - Pg - Pg - Pg - Pg - My - My - Pg - Pg - Pg - Ny ....

chris_wot 8 hours ago 1 reply      
The other day I saw a Google engineer with a shirt that read "MySQL is the Windows ME of databases".
e98cuenc 8 hours ago 9 replies      
For me, a key advantage of MySQL is Sequel Pro. I've never found a GUI for postgresql that can touch it.

If there was one, I will switch in a heartbeat as I will love to have access to some more advanced SQL than what's available in MySQL (like window functions)

dijit 10 hours ago 2 replies      
Background on me; I abuse databases. I currently use pgsql as a k/v store with locking metadata because it's the only database technology that supports being forced onto disk (not just writing into VFS). It's also pushing huge row sizes (1MB)

My team spent many months trying to mangle MySQL into doing a similar thing (which it will do) but eventually we hit a performance stop with MySQL.

We did many things to improve the performance; switched to using fastsockets in the kernel, changed memory allocators (tried two different ones) but at 40cores and 8 pci-e ssds it was spin locking some function in memory.

Not to mention it's history with throwing data away.

Most people use MySQL because they know it already- and I would say that's fair comment. But getting started with PostgreSQL is easier and it scales better, so it's hard for me to agree with using it in 2017.

To get started with a random test db you can do:

mkdir database

pg_ctl -D database initdb

pg_ctl -D database start

psql -h database

lngnmn 8 hours ago 0 replies      
PostgreSQL: being written in the sane subset of C instead of being a pile of amateurish C++.

As a result of this design decision the resource management of each major part, like the buffer pool, the lock manager, etc is explicit and straightforward.

This, in turn, leads to indeed stable and predicable runtime behavior during high loads.

Basically, PostgreSQL is one of very few canonical examples of what sanity and attention to details could accomplish.

pbhowmic 8 hours ago 1 reply      
From my perspective MySQL does secondary index is much better than PostgreSQL. Uber found that out the hard way.
ubernostrum 9 hours ago 1 reply      
Postgres adhered to a philosophy of "make it correct, then make it fast".

MySQL adhered to a philosophy of "make it fast, then if someone complains enough, consider making it correct".

The result of this is predictable: Postgres is now fast and correct in its implementations, while MySQL is fast and burdened with a large number of "gotchas" and legacy incorrectness.

For example:

MySQL's traditional "fast" table type doesn't support transactions. So you have to select a different table type if you want transactions, but then when you do, you discover that you need to usually go "up" one level from what you'd expect, because the REPEATABLE READ level only affects SELECT, not INSERT, UPDATE or DELETE queries. Which in turn means you can have an inconsistency between the set of rows you'd see in a SELECT with a set of conditions, and the set of rows that would actually be affected if you issued an UPDATE with that same set of conditions. You have to go up one level to READ COMMITTED in order to start solving this.

MySQL's Unicode collations have some bugs; when I was at Mozilla, one we ran into was that we had to set up our own custom collation to get, for example, "e" and "" to be considered distinct characters (if you ever used MDN, and once saw a strange bug where French versions of topic tags showed on an English article? That's why -- MySQL thought "CSS Reference" and "CSS Rfrence" were the same tag).

MySQL infamously accepted almost any kind of garbage values regardless of declared column type, accepted values larger than the declared column width (i.e., you could insert a 300-character string into a 256-character VARCHAR column), and would silently or near-silently mangle, truncate or just drop the data.

etc., etc.

I cannot at this point imagine using MySQL for any kind of serious project.

samfisher83 6 hours ago 3 replies      

It seems like Everytime on HNs people say postgre is so much better. Why is MySQL so much more popular?

camus2 10 hours ago 2 replies      
> Many cons have been fixed.

it would be easier if you listed what you mean by "cons". Postgres is much much more powerful than MySQL if you are really into SQL and exploiting an RDBMS, MySQL administration is simpler.

This question is a bit too vague to warrant a specific answer.

vesak 11 hours ago 0 replies      
PostgreSQL will always be technically superior, and it is a single product.

MySQL is MySQL or MariaDB.

jballanc 11 hours ago 4 replies      
Pros and Cons depend largely on what you're hoping to use your DB for and how you intend to deploy/administer it. Feature-wise, Postgres has a break-neck speed of new feature adoption compared to MySQL. That could be a Pro or a Con depending on your perspective. If you're dying to try out deep indexing of JSON columns in your SQL DB, then you definitely want Postgres. If you need something stable and reliable, then MySQL might be a better choice.

Not to be trite, but I think the biggest high-level Pro/Con comes down to this: Postgres has the more active OSS community, MySQL has Percona. Seriously, if you're in a situation where you have the option of spending money to solve problems, then having the option of hiring Percona to fix your problems alone makes MySQL a sound decision. If you don't have a large cash reserve, but are willing to spend time combing through message boards and blog posts, pick Postgres.

Ask HN: Do you still use browser bookmarks?
390 points by ethanpil  1 day ago   410 comments top 151
Houshalter 1 day ago 11 replies      
Of course, and I'm surprised many people don't. Chrome handles bookmarks well, automatically syncing them between different machines you are signed in on. I used to have them nicely organized into different folders but now it's a bit of a mess... It's especially useful to deal with tab explosion. Control+D and you can just save all your tabs in a single folder (and never look at them again.)

The biggest problem is linkrot. As a rough estimate 13% of links die every year, and it's quite possibly much higher than that. (https://www.gwern.net/Archiving%20URLs) Without the glorious web archive, bookmarks would be unusuable. And I wonder how many people know about web archive.. Youtube-dl may also be useful if you want to preserve music or videos (despite the name, it works on almost every site I've tried it on including audio sites.) Someday I intend to script something up to automatically scrape all my bookmarks and make a local copy, but it seems complex.

Cyph0n 1 day ago 11 replies      
I have a ton of bookmarks, but I use them passively. From my experience, Firefox is the undisputed king of making sure anything you type in the address bar will be instantly checked against your bookmark collection.

For instance, maybe I'm looking for a PostgresSQL tutorial. I start typing "postgres" and one of the bookmarks I forgot about from several months back appears. This approach has ended up saving me a lot of time over the years. Another cool thing is when a bookmark pops up when I'm searching that brings back memories. If the site is still up, I get a free trip down memory lane :)

My collection is at least 9 years old now. I've been maintaining the same Firefox database over the years by migrating it manually from version to version. Now it's seamless thanks to Firefox Sync. I get my bookmarks on my PC, laptop, and my phone. I have an Xmarks account as a backup, and for cases when I prefer to use Chrome.

jcrites 1 day ago 6 replies      
I don't use browser bookmarks but I do use bookmarks through pinboard.in: https://pinboard.in/u:jcrites

With a paid feature called an archival account, Pinboard stores an actual copy of each bookmarked article, kind of like your own private Wayback Machine. It provides full text search over these articles.

I frequently save articles that I read so that I can refer to them later. It doesn't happen often, but once in a while I will desire to access an article that I read a few months or years later, and I find Pinboard well worth the value for making it possible for me to actually identify the article and retrieve its content regardless of whether the original link is still around.

I find this especially useful because it is my habit to collect citations for various facts. When I find myself making a claim in conversation, I really want to be able to access the original source where I learned about the fact, and provide the evidence to back it up. Or to review the source to confirm that my memory of it is accurate. Or sometimes I want to share a useful article explaining some topic with a colleague or friend.

I do occasionally use the browser bookmarks a sort of clipboard or working set, for 5-10 links at a time. I use Google Chrome and it syncs bookmarks between my devices.

ikawe 1 day ago 5 replies      
I probably have 500 bookmarks. I never click on them though.

Instead I (ab)use bookmarks as a way to increase the weight of URLs in chrome's navigation bar autocomplete/suggestion algorithm.

e.g. If you find that you're going to a site's homepage and clicking three times, instead once you get to the actual page you want, bookmark it. You can even give it a more memorable name, like "standup hangout" and then watch it autocomplete from the address bar next time you start to type the URL.

threepipeproblm 1 day ago 0 replies      
At some point, it occurred to me that almost all of the bookmarks in my ever-expanding collection really represented "to do items" more than "reference items".

As others have said, most things can easily be searched as needed. But I was using bookmarks as placeholders, saying "I wanted to read x later", in most cases... sometimes other things.

So I started treating bookmarks as various categories of todos. I do have a reference folder, but it has less than a hundred items. I often use those only passively -- i.e. when typing into the address bar, the starred link will come up first.

All the other links are sorted into categories such as "files to download", "new articles", "new buyables" and so forth.

Now that I think of Bookmarks as deferred work, it has changed a lot of habits. My total number of bookmarks has slowly dropped, and I tend to handle more stuff as it comes, or not at all -- or at least to be more conscious of bookmarks as a cost.

An unexpected benefit has been a feeling of mental satisfaction, after closing a lot of semi-forgotten, open loops. I now think a big unorganized pile of bookmarks can represent a real liability, whereas if you actually go through all those links and delete the weaker ones you get a concentrated pile of goodness. You hit a point where you'd rather read your remaining bookmarks than most news feeds.

kusmi 1 day ago 4 replies      
I used to, I now use zotero to save whole pages onto webdav, from there bunch of scripts peel the ads off, scrape the text, convert to PDF, store in cms and index for full text search on solr. Also hooked up Dropbox to do the same for one click archiving from mobile. Since Dropbox and the webdav are shared between my partners and I, it's a convenient way to build knowledge base. Experimenting hooking up Telegram and slack as well to integrate everything for no hassle user-end. The real pain in the ass is passing the URL itself, consistently, without insisting users use another third party app.

*Forgot to mention the best part: Backend pools these full-text documents, cleans and parses for NLP, then generates meaningful tags, and organizes documents in an auto generated folder hierarchy which is based on word2vec/doc2vec and content clusters. Whole thing runs on a dedicated server with two 1070 GTX video cards for the NLP work which is training and re-evaluating constantly as new content pours in.

Altogether it was 2-3 years of work.

mr_spothawk 1 day ago 3 replies      
I have tons of bookmarks. Pro-tip: make a bookmark, edit the bookmark, set the title to "" <empty string>. Then you have it's favicon as your site launcher.


sometimes I make use of the features "open all bookmarks in this folder".

other times I use the bookmark to (as somebody else mentioned already) weight consideration of sites I'm interested in getting results from.

aside: at hackreactor, I worked with some folks on the beginnings of a chrome extension to grab your bookmarks, analyze the content of each site, and suggest new bookmarks when you open a new tab. the suggestions part was working already by the time I came around. then I got a job and that pretty much fell out of priority... heh.

INTPenis 1 day ago 2 replies      
No and it worries me. I have a great memory normally, I speak several languages and computer languages. I was raised in the era before search engines when bookmarks were important.

But these days it worries me to say that I just visit the same three websites over and over. Aggregation websites with links and content.

Sometimes I find myself staring at the url bar not being able to think of anything to do because I've visited my three websites already.

Of course besides those three aggregators there are sites like google and stackexchange that I visit indirectly. And any blogs, forum and such that I might find through google.

bm98 1 day ago 9 replies      
I'm a little surprised that the majority of the answers here are Yes!

I help my parents and my kids work with bookmarks but I have none myself; and I was beginning to think that bookmarks were primarily used by non-technical people. I guess I was wrong!

Everything I need is a simple URL (like, my bank: usaa.com - why would I bookmark that?) or a quick Google search away. If I come across a deep link that's so important that I want to keep it, I email myself the link along with maybe a short description, and it will be searchable forever.

My lack of bookmarks fits with the rest of my "online personality". I have 14,183 threads in my work email inbox and I do not file emails into folders like most of my colleagues. I do not have the desire or the time to manage email folders or browsing bookmarks.

Also, the fact that I browse in a "clean" browser instance in SELinux that saves no history from instance to instance probably contributes to my lack of bookmark use.

Existenceblinks 1 day ago 2 replies      
My bank url is hard to remember, and search it on google is risky to be a victim of fake sites. So anything fake-able is on my bookmark.

Well I've marked a ton of urls and rarely revisit :(It's like having a camera, take photos and forget them forever. It's a tool to help you forget things, not to remember, sadly!

jacquesm 1 day ago 3 replies      
I do, but I've also come to rely on a plug-in called 'scrapbook'. It allows you to cut a snippet from a webpage and save it along with the url of the original.

Very handy, and it also protects somewhat against linkrot.

I've tied it to a hotkey to copy any bit that is highlighted to the currently open scrapbook. (shift-ctrl-b) without further notifications or interaction other than the keystroke. Super quick and it doesn't get in the way of continued reading.

morganvachon 1 day ago 1 reply      
I use them in three ways: My most used bookmarks live on my bookmarks bar in Firefox with the text removed, so they are just icons of the favicon.gif from the server, screenshot example here[1]. The lesser used ones live in the "Folders" folder under a tree style arrangement. The third method is via the "ReadLater" folder which contains links I didn't have time to fully read right away, and acts as a sort of manual version of Pocket or similar apps.

[1] http://storage7.static.itmages.com/i/17/0408/h_1491614673_38...

JohnBooty 1 day ago 0 replies      
Hells to the yes.

To take things a step further, I'm not entirely sure how I'd function without them.

(I'm sure I'd find a way, but it would be an adjustment and a loss)

Firefox's fuzzy searching in the URL bar makes bookmarks awesome. My "workflow":

1. Bookmark anything I might need later by clicking the bookmark button. It presents a little tooltip-like popup that lets me edit the title and tags if I want to.

2. Sometimes I edit the title/tags and sometimes I don't. I make this call based on a quick judgement call on whether the default will allow me to find the article later. Suppose the article title is "MySQL Adds Froitz-Based Blammo Filtering." Well, that should suffice. But if the title is merely "10 Awesome New MySQL Features" then I might want to edit the title/tags to mention something about "Froitz-Based Blammo Filtering" if that's what I'm interested in. [1]

3. Then I usually never use the bookmark ever again.

4. BUT, sometimes I do. And Firefox's fuzzy match implementation lets me type "mysql froitz" and get a match on this bookmark 100% of the time. Chrome's matching is stupider & I'm not sure about Safari. Safari makes adding bookmarks less convenient than FF or Chrome so I assume finding them is harder. (Maybe it's not, I don't know)

I don't know about Firefox's bookmarking performance characteristics. But, I know that I've been adding lots of bookmarks forever and it "just works" and it feels instance. The fact that I've never had to think about it beyond that point is a compliment of the highest order. That's one of the many reasons why I remain a dedicated Firefox supporter.


[1] This is just a theoretical example, of course. MySQL does not actually receive new features, awesome or otherwise.

ams6110 1 day ago 0 replies      
I have a home.html file that is my browser default page. It has all the links I use regularly, organized in a few columns that I think make sense, but more honestly I use it mainly by muscle memory. It also has input fields for a couple of different search engines.

It's very simple, no javascript and just a tiny bit of CSS.

Any time I want to update it, add a link, etc. I just use a text editor.

interfixus 1 day ago 1 reply      
Of course I do. Some of them neatly stacked in labeled folders, some of them just higgledypiggledy in the great unsorted. I have my bookmark history on hand to way back before the turn of the century. A lot of those links have died, obviously, but it's a neat historical record of my foci, foibles and obsessions over the years.

My data belong either offline or on serverspace I control myself. There's nothing especially secret about it, but like my email (going back more than twenty years), I wouldn't dream of storing data like that online outside my own control.

The bookmarking, by the way, used to take place in Firefox. The ongoing self-immolation of that once mighty browser has recently sent me to the Pale Moon camp. And it's like coming home. I couldn't be happier, running on various Linux'es on the household machinery. The Chrome/Chromium world hegemony is one of those sad, scary things I shall never understand.

hueller 1 day ago 1 reply      
I use pinboard.

As far as native bookmarks, I don't like that browsers have kind of black boxed their bookmarks and require individual proprietary cloud sync for these things (I realize Firefox has a self hosted option, but it's kind of outdated and last I checked the documentation was spotty. Even then it's only FF).

I know there's also the Netscape Bookmark Format which is kind of sketch, but at least it's something. I tried writing something that exported on close, I'd sync them myself, then imported on open, but it was pretty hacky (edit: also browsers exports are often very different so there was some normalization there that was fragile). There should be a way to setup an endpoint to natively sync this stuff with an open protocol and then all your bookmarks on all clients look the same. If you don't like that service, export someplace else and change your endpoint. Browsers should just be boxes for structured content.

sleavey 1 day ago 3 replies      
I use the bookmark toolbar in Firefox, but I delete the text and leave the favicons so that I can fit ~50 bookmarks in one row. I also have folders containing bookmarks for particular categories, like "Work", "Stuff to watch", etc.
rmason 1 day ago 0 replies      
I have thousands of bookmarks. One thing I've wanted Google to do for the longest time since I started using their browser was to let me limit searches to my own bookmarks.

I've got a fair degree of organization with folders and sub-folders but still spend way too much time trying to locate a specific bookmark. I've learned to edit the subject line because often you're bookmarking something called 'home' or a cryptic Github path.

JanecekPetr 1 day ago 1 reply      
Additionally to what everyone said already, I have two other uses:

1) I have a set of bookmarks specialized for search. Chrome can do this without bookmarks, but Firefox needs them. I'm talking about bookmarks like this:https://www.google.com/search?q=%s&tbm=isch

Note the %s in the middle, that's where queries go.When you save this as a bookmark and add a keyword to it ("gg" in my case), you can then search images on Google like this:

- Alt-d (jump to url bar)

- gg fluffy kittens

I have a few dozen of these: Google, G images, G translate, G maps, local maps, Wikipedia English, Wikipedia Czech, various dictionaries, whois, wolfram alpha, grammar check, YouTube, Maven search... You get the idea.

2) A huge curated collection of bookmarks to Java libraries. Something similar to all those awesome-java collections that are lately popping up, but more complete, in my browser, indexed for search and neatly grouped into like a hundred folders.

aurelian15 1 day ago 0 replies      
I configured my webrowser such that it clears my browsing history whenever I'm closing my browser and mainly use bookmarks for fast auto-completion when typing in the address bar. With respect to organisation, I generally don't. I just use the "star" button to mark websites as favourites. I synchronise bookmarks across devices using Firefox Sync.
pmoriarty 1 day ago 1 reply      
I have thousands of bookmarks, and gave up putting them in to folders years ago. Now I just tag them with every relevant keyword that I can think of when I make the bookmark, and search them that way.

Firefox's bookmark manager is very primitive, though, and I've long been meaning to migrate my bookmarks over to org-mode in emacs, where I have much more powerful searching, metadata, editing, linking, commenting, restructuring, and navigating options.

unholiness 12 hours ago 0 replies      
I'm surprised no one's mentioned the chrome feature that's mostly replaced bookmarks for me.

Just like aliasing commands in the terminal, you can alias web pages in Chrome's address bar. So, when I type "je" in my omnibar it has an autocomplete option "Jenkins", and pressing enter will take me to the URL I set for the Jenkins home page.

This feature is poorly named "search engines", and yes, it is extensible to putting extra strings at the end of that URL (which could be registered as a search term within that site), but I've been using it for years, and 99% of my use is simply mapping arbitrary strings to arbitrary URLs. It works amazingly for that. No mouse movement digging into bookmark folders required.


theknarf 1 day ago 0 replies      
Bookmarks are where links go to die. So yes I do "use" bookmarks, but never revisit them. What I instead do often is either keep the tabs open or, save them as notes in a note taking app. I feel that the note taking app makes it easier to organize stuff into "projects" as that how I usually work.
astrostl 2 hours ago 0 replies      
Yes, but only for regularly-visited things. The rest is on Pinboard.
girishso 6 hours ago 0 replies      
After having thousands of bookmarks on different services. I decided to build http://tweetd.com. It indexes the links you tweet.

Edit: Although, I realized that just full-text searching through bookmarks won't pop the most relevant links to the top.

double051 1 day ago 1 reply      
Definitely! I still keep the bookmarks bar visible on Chrome and Firefox to have quick access to my favorite and most visited pages. All of the links have abbreviated names to fit more on the bar. #1 is Hacker News, of course.

I also still 'star' interesting links and categorize them into folders. Very handy to have Chrome sync the bookmarks across all of my machines.

ravenstine 1 day ago 2 replies      
I do but only in the sense that I use it as a sort of bucket that I throw things in and almost never look at again. Basically, no.
rwanyoike 11 hours ago 0 replies      
Yes I do, I use bookmarks to save time. I have them organized in different folders, with a few for "temporary" bookmarks that I clear out regularly. I try to limit my bookmarks to landing pages, online tools and references - stuff I know I'll revisit, while I send article/news bookmarks to Pocket or Feedly (RSS).

A problem comes up when searching for bookmarks that don't have keywords in their titles. I use a WebExtension [0] to update my bookmarks with website descriptions, increasing the odds of finding them.

[0]: https://github.com/rwanyoike/bookmark-refresh

mrmondo 12 hours ago 0 replies      
More heavily than ever, I have every bookmark in my bookmarks toolbar, all in folders such as 'home' and 'work' for local URLs, 'checkout' for things I've found but not researched, 'git' for URLs to my GitLab / GitHub projects etc... pretty much every fancy bookmark management service or replacement has massively disappointed me, overly complicated or requires running background services (like xmarks) etc... the only reliable one is the built in Firefox sync, then I use a plugin to export bookmarks to HTML on quit which exports to a directory in my Dropbox directory.
lucb1e 1 day ago 0 replies      
I do occasionally, though usually Firefox' "awesomebar" will get me there anyway so there is not often a need.

My girlfriend does make extensive use of it for all sorts of things.

I think my mom uses it as well. My brother and dad I'm not sure about. Not sure what that says for a confidence interval, but many people still do. Then again, I'm sure there must be clusters of people (when clustering by who knows who) that never learned it's there, or who choose not to use it.

chamakits 1 day ago 0 replies      
For my personal use? No

For work, absolutely.I have a couple of top level directories on my bookmark bar:




CurrWork-<2-3 words describing topic of work>-<Date started>

Under KeyLinks I keep well...key links, like the links to the wiki entry on how to setup dev environments, link to the Holiday calendar, link to the Jira dashboard showing my team's sprints, link to the company roadmap, etc. Pretty much just links that I'll have to refer to periodically.

Under InterestingTech are articles or things of interest I stumble upon on my day to day, but that I don't have time right now to look into.... This one is honestly a bit of a bottomless pit at this point...

Under CurrWork-* I keep all the links related to the work I'm doing right now. That means wiki entries related to it, StackOverflow links I had to use to fix something, Jira tickets, Jenkin jobs, internal web-app links, code review link, etc. You name it. If it's in any way related to my current work, and it's a site, it's there.

And when I'm done with the current 'CurrWork-*', I remove the leading 'CurrWork-' and move it to the bottom of PrevWork.

I have an awful memory, but this in combination with an emacs org-mode file for each 'CurrWork' iteration I have, I manage to be able to refer to things I've worked on in the past when people ask. After they give me a minute or two to get my bearings of course.

slowkow 1 day ago 1 reply      
I use diigo. The free version lets you cache the page, annotate the page with highlights, and tag your bookmarks. The extension for Chrome works very well. They also launched some PDF annotation features, but I haven't tried that.


aerovistae 1 day ago 0 replies      
My chrome bookmarks are one of the 3 pillars of my cloud identity, along with my gmail and my dropbox. You could just say my google account and my dropbox.

I have hundreds of bookmarks, covering dozens of categories of research and reading. One of the largest subcategories includes hundreds of references that I may or may not need for future projects including software (stackoverflow questions, tutorials, bug solutions, framework and API references, optimization articles, in-depth guide articles, and so on), woodworking, economic/governmental/civic/legal research, fitness, electrical engineering and general circuity/wiring, real estate, recipes, piano repair, audio production, and so on. These are all intended to be kept until needed, most likely indefinitely.

Then there's a category for more temporary things that I need in the moment and am unlikely to need again, including news/blog articles I haven't gotten around to reading yet, solutions for bugs that I need to fix, torrents I haven't gotten around to downloading, and collections of references for small, specific projects that I won't need again afterwards.

So basically I use Chrome bookmarks as my personal address book for "things on the vast internet which I wish to return to eventually."

For major things I use daily, like youtube or gmail or facebook, I don't bother bookmarking them-- for those I just use the address bar's semi-intelligent autosuggest....Ctrl+L to go to address bar, then I just type g and hit enter, or y and hit enter, or f, etc. The only website I need to type out beyond 2 letters is twitter/twitch.

I guess this may sound odd, but Chrome has begun to feel like a natural part of my mind. The bookmarks and my gmail are an extension of my memory. My interactions with the net are an extension of my thought processes. I have seen other people make similar remarks about their phones.

aswerty 1 day ago 0 replies      
I'm a big fan of bookmarking but I found the browser features didn't fit my needs all that well. So I built my own browser extension which I really like. Hasn't taken off at all and development has kind of stopped for the time being (other work has put it on the back burner) so it's still just available on Chrome.

Using it I hit Ctrl+M (the shortcut to open it) and then I have my top 20 sites key bound. So HN is Ctrl+M -> h. All my other bookmarks can be accessed via a search feature which you can tab or "/" to get to on opening the extension. I hate lists/folders so my bookmarks are all hidden away behind the search function. The extension is built for either the mouse or keyboard so I have a lot of flexibility in how I interact with it.

The site for it is: www.devmark.io

skraelingjar 1 day ago 0 replies      
I still use bookmarks, but rarely go to them.

All of my bookmarks are resources, something for me to read or use at a later time. Some are for things I want to learn, some are for things I knew but have lost to time, and others are just.. out there. Like this: https://apps.fcc.gov/oetcf/eas/reports/GenericSearch.cfm I have no idea why I bookmarked that (or when).

Another example: This week I decided to learn Rust. I was listening to a podcast and the host mentioned rustbyexample.com and I visited the site and realized previous me had bookmarked it thinking I would decided to learn Rust at some point and it would be a nice resource.

Maybe something that would look at my recent history and say Hey X has been in your bookmarks for months and it's related to all the Y pages you've been visiting.

None of them are organized, I'd pay for something to automatically organize them.

juki 1 day ago 0 replies      
I use Emacs / Org Mode for bookmarks. I use a few different browser profiles, and usually always want to open a bookmark in a specific profile. Having all bookmarks in one place is much easier than figuring out which browser I need and then finding the bookmark in it. Plus this way I can use other Org Mode features with them too (adding any arbitrary notes/tasks to them, todo keywords for a reading list, refiling/archiving, etc.)

Basically I just add the properties URL and BROWSER to any entry I want to be a bookmark. I have the numpad key 4 bound to a command that opens the url (works either in the org file buffer itself, or from an agenda view). I also have the numpad key 1 bound to an agenda search for the tag :bm: (searching for a property is too slow), so I can easily get a list of all bookmarks, which can then be filtered by tags, category, top-level headline and regexes.

vbezhenar 1 day ago 0 replies      
First of all, I use reading list. It's kind of bookmark in Safari. If there's interesting webpage, but I don't have time or mood to read it, click and close. If I answered and want to check it later, click and close. Once a week I breeze through them and delete, so it won't stockpile like a mountain.

Second is Favourites (like bookmark bar), I can access it from blank page. I'm saving webpages, that I visit often, news, important forums, etc. Also webpages, that I'm using currently in work (e.g. Postgres documentation, if I'm working with it right now.

Rest is just organized by topic list of webpages that I could use later. I'm not using it that often, but sometimes it might be handy.

j0e1 1 day ago 0 replies      
Oh yes! I use them in FF and have organized them in folders with tags for hassle-free retrieval across devices.

I find them extremely useful for tutorials/learning new stuff which I know I need/want to learn but just don't have the time at the moment. Whether or not I end up coming back to them is a discussion for another day ;)

Most of my bookmarks are via HN.

navs 1 day ago 1 reply      
Personally, I've stopped bookmarking everything I find somewhat interesting. Now if I do find something and it will be used in the next week/month, it's often part of an existing project or idea, and so it gets thrown in a text file that's versioned.

I started doing this after accumulating a huge index of bookmarks spread across saved.io, Evernote, Google Bookmarks, iCloud, Firefox, Opera, txt files, Google Spaces and the other dozen or so bookmarking/collaborative knowledge sharing platforms showcased on Product Hunt.

I'm surprised there's no digital equivalent to the Hoarders TV show. I suppose thousands of bookmarks are less impressive than a garage full of old newspapers and rats.

tempestn 1 day ago 0 replies      
I use browser bookmarks frequently, but have few of them. I tend to use them primarily for utilities and other sites that I visit somewhat regularly. Basically the two main cases are 1) sites I visit so often that it's handy to get there with a single click as opposed to a couple of characters in the address bar, and 2) sites with strange urls and/or ones that I access repeatedly but infrequently, so might not remember where to find.

For anything I want to remember for later, or keep for reference material, I clip it to Evernote instead. Find that much more useful, as normally when you're looking for a piece of reference material it's going to be able to remember some keywords from it than the title or where you filed the bookmark. Also means you can easily reference it even if the page is missing or changed in the future.

alexdumitru 1 day ago 0 replies      
I do, but I've always find it pretty hard to use them, because I forgot what exactly I bookmarked and in what folder.
nevatiaritika 1 day ago 0 replies      
I use the bookmarks bar to neatly organize my frequent links. And I kind of have an OCD when a link is misplaced in the wrong folder. Of course, then, some folders, I never visit again but some, very very frequently.

Also for the habit of reading/skimming articles and often hopping from one URL to another, I use One Tab. Super efficient to collect links in one page:https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/onetab/chphlpgkkbo...On the negative side, my work PC has over 800 URLs and home PC about 1500+

Mikhail_Edoshin 1 day ago 0 replies      
Yes, I use them a lot, but find the organizing tools pretty lacking. E.g. I program in Python and keep a bookmark for many Python modules in alphabetic subfolders so that I can quickly jump to the docs. It's rather boring to maintain this setup. I also dance tango and I'd love to bookmark many Youtube videos but here the tools are really primitive: there's lots of ways to organize this (by type of video, dance style, by principal figures, by dancers -- sometimes more than one couple -- by music maybe) and no easy way to do anything other than a silo of "all things tango".
AceyMan 1 day ago 2 replies      
I treat URLs like any other document: I click+drag the favicon off the address bar and drop it in the target folder in explorer (file browser in Windows), which creates a dot-url shortcut.

Why keep resources in a unique silo? You wouldn't keep all your PDFs/Word/rtf/&c in a "<ext> manager app", so why do URLs have to be kept in one?

Also, this way they all get backed up since I keep all work docs on my network drive.

I'm surprised no one else follows this pattern, but I've never seen anyone else use it, nor have I won over any converts via its sheer awesome factor <shrug>.

FYI, works in FF and Chrome, but not Opera. (Bummer, because I like Opera generally, and it's my default Android browser.)

abrkn 1 day ago 0 replies      
I have hundreds of them in Chrome, ported over from all kinds of browsers and services over the year. I never use them. They just sit in the bookmarks toolbar and annoy me.
cyberferret 1 day ago 1 reply      
All the time in Chrome. I have a fairly rigid structure in my Bookmarks folders, where I categorise all my hobby and professional interests. I like that it is synchronised across all my devices too.

I used to use Pocket a lot to do similar things, but categorising, and browsing the saved links was a little too cumbersome.

Plus I like that I can search just within my plethora of bookmarks if I want to reference something I know I saved a year ago. [0]

[0] - https://www.lifehacker.com.au/2015/02/quickly-search-just-ch...

zengid 1 day ago 0 replies      
I used to but now I dump everything into Pocket. I would only say it's useful because it satisfies my need to horde interesting information.
m-p-3 1 day ago 1 reply      
I still do, but I find Google Chrome bookmarking system to be a bit too simplistic.

I mean, Google is usually strong on that from with labels in Gmail, Keep but for some reason they never implemented that in their bookmarks. It would makes more sense than using folders IMO.

dorfsmay 1 day ago 0 replies      
I use wiki's, because "links" only make sense in a given context, so at work I add the noteworthy links in the local wiki, and for my personal use I keep a series of text files of notes on particular subjects, where I add links.

I do however use bookmarks on my laptop to point to locally installed document such as the full python library doc, in order to be able to access those when offline (eg: in a train).

ernsheong 1 day ago 0 replies      
I am currently developing PageDash, a personal web archive web-based app. The key difference is that I want to preserve the page exactly just as I saw it, with the help of a browser extension.

Reason for this is that I love saving pages that I encounter. I use Evernote Web Clipper a lot, but it frequently fails to keep the styling perfect. Secondly, a lot of archivers can't save pages behind an authentication layer.

To be notified when it launches, let me know here!https://goo.gl/forms/X1IBqaA03kekR2Db2

mud_dauber 1 day ago 0 replies      
My bookmarks bar has my top-30 list (mail, feedly, HN, ...) I tried a folder system but found the amount of overhead to be WAY too cumbersome.

I capture stuff to read in Pocket. If I eventually find the link to be valuable (news: almost never; how-tos: much more often), I move it into a Google Keep "PostIt".

The value-add is that I can add pics, notes, links to Dropbox docs, etc in the same PostIt, and organize them as I see fit.

DavideNL 9 hours ago 0 replies      
Yes... and also i recently discovered Bookmacster (macOS) which locally syncs bookmarks between Safari & Firefox & Chromium etc. (without having to upload all your stuff to a cloud.) Very handy!
richardw 1 day ago 0 replies      
Yes, lots, in Chrome. I have folders directly in the shortcuts bar, with e.g. "Money", "News", "Proj" and current projects usually have their own folders. One I use a lot is "Topics", which has many subfolders for e.g. "Analytics". I use the Other Bookmarks list for things I use regularly but not often (e.g. once a month).

I definitely would like some improvements. My "Topics" folder is huge and I don't really need it loaded each time the browser loads. Just save it in the topic and let me find it later. Also, if Chrome has my shortcuts, why doesn't Google highlight those in search results? And maybe auto-link the saved shortcuts to the terms I used when finding them in the first place. There's a lot of meta data in that action - search-search-search, save. Google knows quite a bit of my thought process (via keywords and sequence), so use that.

taude 1 day ago 0 replies      
Installing the Quick Tabs [1] Google Chrome plugin has completely changed my use of browser-based Bookmarks: with cmd-e an intelligent search box pops up giving me instant access to my history or bookmarks folder.

[1] https://github.com/babyman/quick-tabs-chrome-extension

zmix 18 hours ago 0 replies      
Absolutely! You will always search the needle in the haystack with Google. But you will search the mouse in thehaystack with bookmarks. And with the history set to "not expire" that mouse may even become the size of a dog.

I stopped categorizing my bookmarks into folders a long time ago, however. They just end in a single folder. Though, I love to use 'tags', which I use for important stuff, that I want to distinguish from other important stuff.

khedoros1 1 day ago 0 replies      
Yes. Anything essential goes in the bookmark toolbar (mostly thinking about internal sites at work). I save a number of keyword searches (like "yt" for youtube, "wp" for Wikipedia).

For personal machines, I've got about 5 machine+OS combinations, with 2-3 browsers on each that I use for various things. I chose not to set up sync accounts in any of the browsers (I've already got too many damn accounts to manage, thank you!). So I sometimes save a bookmark if I'm in the middle of a long series of pages about something, as a sometimes-completely-literal "bookmark".

stevewillows 1 day ago 0 replies      
In my Bookmarks bar I have 'General', which breaks down into about fifteen categories. Each of those is broken down into several folders --- its very organized. I go through it once a year or so to clear out links I'm certain I won't need in the future (usually project ideas).

I use Bookmark Box to sync with other browsers by way of Dropbox. Its not perfect, but it works.

For the rest of the Bookmarks bar I have my most common links -- a few spreadsheets (in Drive), some web apps, and a folder for forums I frequent. I also have a bookmarket for Pepperplate, which I use on a regular basis.

mspaulding06 1 day ago 0 replies      
Currently I use a variety of techniques for managing content I would like to revisit on the web. I do use bookmarks mostly for often visited websites and I always using syncing if possible with Chrome and other browsers that support it (Brave does now!). I've also discovered some browser plugins that really help with this. OneTab is absolutely indispensable and will store all of your currently open tabs so that you don't have to keep them open. That's great when I've got several tabs open on a single subject that I want to come back to later. I've also started to use Pocket for most blog posts and random things that I want to read some time in the future but can't right now. The nice thing is that it is accessible from all my devices so I can put links into Pocket from my phone and then go to them from my desktop computer.
sacado2 1 day ago 0 replies      
Yes, but only for

- tabs I haven't read yet, but I need to restart my browser for some reason, and I want to be sure the tabs won't be lost ; in this case, those bookmarks are disposed of as soon as the browser restarted

- content I'm pretty sure I'll want to read back in a few time

I only use the bookmark bar, so I have to limit what I save. When it gets too big, I clean it up.

chrsstrm 1 day ago 0 replies      
Literally thousands...

Organized in ~150 folders all with subfolders. Ditched the bookmark services when Chrome started syncing data across devices. There are three features I would love:

 1. The search box in the manager does a full text search of the content on the bookmarked page instead of just the title (at the time it was marked, not updated). 2. The ability to search by URL with regex. 3. Show the date I bookmarked the page.

vojant 1 day ago 0 replies      
Not anymore.

Just google everything when I need to find something. In the past I was using bookmarks to track blogs I follow but these days there is too much content. I just google/HN search stuff when I need to find something. I tried going back to bookmarking stuff/save for later but I just never got time to go back to the them.

susam 1 day ago 0 replies      
I don't use browser bookmarks.

I save my bookmarks in a text file, commit it and push it to a remote Git repo. I have this Git repo cloned on every system I use. Since the Vim editor is part of my daily workflow, visiting one of the URLs in the text file is a simple matter of pressing `gx` while the cursor is on a URL.

This is useful to me because I have this repo cloned on every system I use for various reasons, e.g. it contains my daily notes, productivity scripts, etc. So it makes sense to keep all my bookmarks also in this repo. Also having the bookmarks in a text file provides me the flexibility to add arbitrary notes/comments for each URL I save. The fact that I don't have to use the mouse and I can use Vim search or motion commands to find a bookmark is a bonus.

AJRF 1 day ago 0 replies      
I do for sure. I do this thing where I save a bookmark without its title, so it just has a little favicon icon on my bookmark bar, and it is very nice and clean.

I also have folders for Work, Blogs and one for improving myself as a developer. I love browser bookmarks, but am not exactly a poweruser, but I would miss them very much if they were taken away.

vorg 1 day ago 0 replies      
I use the bookmark ribbon in Chrome as a "to visit soon, or return to" list. Stuff I would normally look through the history for.

My most desired feature in Chrome is being able to right-click a link and add it to my bookmarks. Presently, I have to open the link in a new tab/window (using right-click, then T or W) then go to the tab/window, click on the bookmark star, then close the page (i.e. before it finishes loading). If I want to avoid loading a page I don't want to look at right now, I'll right-click on the link, then E to copy the link to the clipboard, then go to a new tab, bookmark it, right-click on the new blank bookmark link, then E to open the editor dialog, type in some suitable title, tab to the address text box, paste in the URL, then click Close. Either way, it just isn't simple.

hkjayakumar 1 day ago 0 replies      
Yes, I do. As a university student, it's really useful to be able to view different course webpages, schedules, important dates, etc - all links that I would access frequently (almost every day)

Apart from that, I also use browser bookmarks for links I want to (or have to) view in the near future. It acts as a constant reminder since it's always visually present.

I use Pocket for articles/links I can afford to view during my free time.

gkya 1 day ago 0 replies      
I use them quite a bit. They are the only completion source I allow for firefox, so when I type something other than a URL on the URL/search bar, I either hit the down arrow and select a matching bookmark, or hit enter and run a search.

Structurally my bookmarks are an ever growing list, they all go into the bookmarks menu in firefox. I occasionally tag them too. Most bookmarks are part of my "online library", I keep them so that if I ever want to send a link to sth. I liked to someone, use them in an article, or maybe read again. I have a separate read-it-later list in an Org-mode file.

Some of the bookmarks are shortcuts, mostly to different dictionaries in WordReference, to Collins english dictionary, and various websites I browse often, like Reddit, HN, my school's, and my own website that I check every-so-often when I upload sth. new.

smonff 1 day ago 0 replies      
All my bookmarks collection inside browsers always end up turning to a horrible stack of junk: I don't know how to get rid of the old stuff, you know something that interested you at some point won't be interesting later but you never know...

With the intelligent address bars of the browsers, you can search and find for most of the recent stuff that you used, and even sometimes very old stuff.

I don't use bookmarks anymore, and I feel like the bookmark bar is most of the time a useless distraction.

If there is things I really want to keep, I post it in a public Shaarli[1] instance where I force myself to use tags, description and informative title.

[1] https://github.com/shaarli/Shaarli

Edit: removed markdown

tomfitz 1 day ago 0 replies      

I use Google Keep to store URLs, typically with some note, for example:* "Specialized Sirrus bike rear derailleur. Model number: DO20. URL: https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B0047D192E/ "* 2015-03-01: Visited doctor. They referred me to physio, and told me to read http://www.arthritisresearchuk.org/arthritis-information/con... for exercises/stretches to relieve pain."

Google Keep supports tagging and search, so I can usually find things. For things I want to read later, I either put it in Pocket or use Google Keeps' reminder functionality.

Chrome integration looks decent (save web pages as an image), but Firefox integration is lacking.

superasn 1 day ago 0 replies      
I do especially because Chrome syncs them everywhere including my mobile phones, laptop and desktop.

It's also useful to bookmark in browser because the address bar gives priority to your bookmarks over auto-complete and history.. So it's much easier to access those sites too.

P.S. I organize them by folder, so it's most likely design -> landing pages -> dark -> bookmark or personal -> finance -> bookmark, etc.

pritambarhate 1 day ago 0 replies      
I use bookmarks a lot and using Chrome I sync them on multiple machines. Yet, I find that bookmarks management is a neglected feature in Chrome. I have hierarchies of bookmarks, and while creating a new bookmark it's very hard to find the appropriate folder, especially when I remember the name of the folder vaguely.

If any Chrome Developer is listening:

It will be amazing if there is some form of autocomplete to specify the folder for the bookmark. Right now on Mac, finding the folder in the drop-down is very hard. To find a folder, typing needs be fast. I almost never find the right folder, if the folder name contains a space. As after the space it starts to match from the first letter in the folder names if you take a brief pause to start typing the next letter.

hellofunk 1 day ago 0 replies      
Unfortunately yes. And they are a mess. I have different bookmarks in Safari and Chrome, and on desktop and mobile. I have them synced between devices but the UI for navigating them is completely different and this doesn't help me so much.

I have so many Chrome bookmark folders that I don't know where anything is. The only way to find one is to just search in the Bookmark Manager. It sucks.

It also doesn't help that my preferred browser on different devices is a different browser.

I hope you are asking this question because you want to do something about this State of Affairs. I would gladly enjoy a good service that solves this problem in some innovative way that my brain cannot come up with.

iand 1 day ago 0 replies      
Yes. I use the bookmark toolbars in ff and chrome with icons and no text for common pages (like this http://imgur.com/a/uZBB8).

My only other use is for groups of pages that I'm referring to or want to come back to as part of a project. I usually delete them after a few weeks.

For long term bookmarks I use pinboard.in

fela 1 day ago 0 replies      
I stopped using bookmarks after I realized I wasn't using them, thanks to a combination of:

1. Autocompletion: for any website I use regularly I just write a substring of the url or Title (Firefox does this especially well). This covers probably 70% of my browsing.

2. Google. This might take slightly longer in case I want to find a specific article I had read some time ago, but it still seems less effort that having to bother with bookmarks, in my experience: either you have a very long list of unsorted bookmarks, in witch it's hard to search, or you have to spend time sorting them into sub-folders.

Now that I think of it, the following would be a very useful Google feature: +1 an url so that it becomes much more likely to bubble to the top in future searches.

mastax 1 day ago 0 replies      
Bookmarks manager from Chrome is quite good, I think: https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/bookmark-manager/g...
scriptkiddy 1 day ago 0 replies      
I do.

I never have to worry about them going away and I can organize them into folders any way I like. Plus, they can be exported, imported, and shared. I use Firefox, so accessing the bookmarks is as simple as using a drop down menu. I actually use a bookmark tool bar for my ost frequently visited sites. This way, when I want to go to HN, for instance, I just click a single button and I'm there.

I've looked at other bookmarking software/services, and I still find that plain old browser bookmarks still fit every use case.

rdpollard 1 day ago 0 replies      
I use bookmarks to keep track of the hundreds of client-specific subdomains on a site I manage for work. I start typing the name of the client in Chrome's search bar and I've got instant access to the URL. I can't think of a better way to handle that (though I'm open to suggestions if you're using something better).
theonemind 1 day ago 1 reply      
I use firefox. It's easy to bookmark things by clicking the star. I almost never pick them from menus, but you can limit awesomebar searches to bookmarks by typing "[asterisk]", so I can find, say, all of the interesting github projects I've ever bookmarked by typing "github [asterisk]"
rvern 1 day ago 0 replies      
Smart bookmarks! Bookmarklets! RSS bookmarks! Awesomebar fuzzy matching! Along with bookmark keywords and bookmark syncing! Firefox's implementation of bookmarks is right next to Wikipedia and ad blockers among the crowning inventions of the World Wide Web.
Sebatyne 1 day ago 0 replies      
I stopped using browser bookmarks to use a web app (the bookmark manager of officejs, https://www.officejs.com/), directly integrated within any browser by updating the default search engine. Having them synchronized on a webbdav server, after loging into the app I can access them from any browser on any device. Then all my searches in the browser bar go through my bookmarks first, and it redirects me to a real search engine if no match has been found.
mtrycz 1 day ago 0 replies      
I have something very simple, A folder called FFR = For Future Reference, where I'll keep the most interesting stuff. Trusting Trust (and Overcoming Trusting Trust), Windows' NSA_KEY, and the like. Most are in the folder with no further hierarchy, but some are categorized into Security, DIY, UI/UX, Gift Ideas, etc.

I also have bookmarks at the root level for things that I will Definitely See Tomorrow, which I never erase, because hey, They could be important.

Since it's the weekend, have this extremely educational video about languages https://www.destroyallsoftware.com/talks/wat

harijoe 23 hours ago 0 replies      
I tried to address this problem some months ago with a chrome extension. Feel free to try and provide feedback to it : https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/oh-hi-mark/fcmdkga...
dpcan 1 day ago 0 replies      
Yes, and I sync them with Chrome on my phone.

The Bookmarks Bar really has the only ones I regularly use though. Wish it was 2 rows.

csydas 1 day ago 0 replies      
I do and have for our support team for our company when we hire newbies. We have a pretty standard "load-out" of commonly used pages and sites, both internal and external, which are commonly used for support calls for the product. A newbie might not have use of every single link, but having a curated list of "this will be useful at some point, just keep in mind that it's there should you run out of ideas" really helps them get past the initial hurdle of learning the ins and outs of the product and the other elements that support it.
Globz 1 day ago 0 replies      
Yes I still do, at this moment I have 3413 bookmarks across different folders, coding, work, recipes, Gaming, etc.

I am currently running Bookmark Checker (chrome extension) and did set the parameters to "error connect" and at this very moment it is reporting : "Bookmark check status: Total bookmarks : 2238 of 3413 error connect: 2117"

so many dead links :(

I did not know about pinboard and I am really tempted to give it a try so I can do a full html archive without the fear of losing again 2000+ bookmarks in 5 years from now.

joveian 1 day ago 0 replies      
I use bookmarks in two basic ways. One is that I have Firefox customized to have two rows of header and on the right half of the top row (which has tabs on the left) I have favicon only bookmarks of sites I look at frequently (like hckrnews.com) so I can open them with one click. I have eighteen such bookmarks plus a link to browser preferences. I have seven folders of bookmarks, either just with the folder icon, one or two characters of text, or a single emojii character for identification. Three of these contain links to my favorite articles (Firefox is bad at scrolling in bookmark folders :( ). One has links I occasionally want to use but not often and one is supposed to have things I want to go back and look at somewhat quickly but not quickly enough to be worth a top level link (I need to clean it out, though, I've collected too much that I am not going to go back to). I'll sometimes create temporary folders about a particular topic.

I bookmark most pages I view as unsorted bookmarks (especially helpful for news sites that have essentially no way to ever find old articles) and then ones I am more interested in I add to another folder that I occasionally divide into smaller folders (to avoid needing to scroll) and put all of these smaller folders ordered chronologically in a folder to the right of the tabs. I usually search the bookmarks first when looking for something, but I don't tag and too often neither the title nor url contain the right keywords for me to find it.

I would really love a more unified bookmark/history system along the lines of Vivaldi's calendar history, but being able to create icons that will flag the current page (to be able to look through just the more interesting history) and other icons that would cause the current page to be saved to a particular folder as a bookmark. Then at most one click would reproduce my current system other than occasional reorganization. Since I can't predict in advance most of what I want to refer to again, I want it to take as little time as possible to bookmark things. I liked the star in Firefox better when it didn't pop up the folder selection unless you clicked it twice.

btb 1 day ago 0 replies      
Only the bookmarks bar at the top of the browser.

For most sites I use keyboard shortcuts + the autocomplete in chrome. Aka to visit hackernews: Ctrl+L and then "news.y" and hit enter.

LocalMan 11 hours ago 0 replies      
I rely on Chrome and Firefox Bookmarks. But I have too many (thousands) and find that Xmarks doesn't help all that much.
Merem 1 day ago 0 replies      
Of course I do. Just checked everything and my bookmarks number just above 1000. The ones I use the most and websites I need in the immediate future are organized in the bookmarks toolbar (I'm using Firefox). Apart from that, they are put into separate folders regarding various topics as well as a list with "random" links which I can't put anywhere else.They are useful to me in the sense that I don't need to remember all those 1000+ links as well as it being the fastest way to access a website (it's faster than typing).
Steven_Bukal 1 day ago 0 replies      
I have lots of bookmarks, mostly for a few purposes:

1 - Pages I want to autocomplete so I don't have to remember and type the full address or verify that I'm on the true site for my bank and not a phishing site

2 - Content to do something about in the future. Stuff to read later, stuff to download to my local machine, etc.

3 - Resources that I want to remember exist and be able to find. For example, I've got a page saved that produces blank graphics in whatever dimensions you want for use in stuff like web design. Forgetting what it is called, I could look it up in my bookmarks pretty quickly instead of having to open photoshop and create such graphics manually

kxyvr 1 day ago 1 reply      
I have hundreds of bookmarks stored across dozens of folders based on topic. I've been burned in the past with Google changing their search algorithm and not being able to find material easily, so I just bookmark everything I want to refer to later now. To that end, I primarily use Firefox and periodically archive them using the "Import and Backup" option from the bookmarks folder. That works alright as it produces an HTML file with the entries, but I'd like something more program independent. Does anyone know a good utility for offline archiving of bookmarks in a mostly browser independent way?
hashhar 1 day ago 0 replies      
Absolutely yes. It serves two primary purposes for me:

1. Archival. If I like something and will need to refer to it/revisit it later (more than a month, say) I will bookmark it.

2. Frequently used pages sit neatly on my bookmarks bar so that I can get to the websites I want quickly just by glancing at their favicons.


I primarily organize in 3 levels.

Top level: This is where frequently used stuff goes. I have configured FF to only show favicons for these so they take little space. eg. HN, GitHub, Outlook, Reddit and Bugzilla.

Second level: This is where things go for archival. I have bookmark folders at the top level that represent a category. eg. Books, Movies, Tech, Coding. Each of those can be further categorised. An example is my Tech folder is broken up into Articles, Blogs, Podcasts, Material (projects, GH repos etc.).

The void: This is the final level or organisation and is just a catch-all folder called Sort-These-Out where all stuff I'm too lazy to organise (or which isn't well defined right now, or things I'll get back on another machine maybe (Linux vs Windows)) goes. It currently has 13 bookmarks. Not bad.

PS: Did you know you can send tabs across Firefox instances on different machines by right clicking and hitting "Send Tab to Device"? The best thing ever.

EDIT: Forgot these two features.

1. Keyword search. Kind of like the bang query syntax from DuckDuckGo you can set up a keyword to search a single website by creating a bookmark. So I can go 'gh mycoolrepo' for searching on GitHub.

2. Tags. Firefox allows you to tag bookmarks. It helps me a lot when, for example, I want to find all bookmarks related to vim (but don't necessarily have vim in the page title). I'm working on an autotagger that integrates into Firefox to save me from having to tag them myself.

[1]: http://www.wikihow.com/Use-Firefox-Keywords (See method 2 for easier variant.

snlacks 1 day ago 0 replies      
I use bookmarks, but rarely for clicking from the bar. Chrome and Edge promote bookmarked sites in the nav bar suggestions when I'm typing. I usually use descriptive names of the content so I can find stuff I liked or go to often by typing a couple letters.
a3n 1 day ago 0 replies      
I do, but only for frequent things, and I'll clean that out periodically.

For longer term bookmarks I use pinboard.

I use a middle-ground for a few things: I may bookmark, say, news sites in pinboard under the "news" category. Every tag and combination of tags on pinboard has an RSS feed; I bookmark the "news" tag's RSS feed in Firefox, and everything tagged shows up.

The RSS is not for the content of the target sites, it's for what goes in and out of the news tag. So I might add another news site to my pinboard news tag, and vi-ola, it shows up in my Firefox RSS bookmark. Delete something from the pinboard tag and it's gone in Firefox.

__jal 1 day ago 0 replies      
I do, for frequent access stuff. Work-related things, personal apps that run in various places, frequently visited sites. The trick is to keep the number low, otherwise I'll never use them because they're impossible to navigate.

For reference material, I built something sort of vaguely like pinboard.in into a home-brew app that I run for myself. It handles search, a modified form of tagging, and a timeline-like view, and I get to it with a JS bookmark (tada) that lives in-browser and sends selected text as a search.

(The app itself is a ridiculous mess, having grown as a sort of cancer in a different app I wrote for myself that now does several unrelated things. Maybe someday I'll pick that crap back apart into something releasable.)

smnscu 1 day ago 0 replies      
I'm a diehard fan of classic bookmarks. I tried pinboard, pocket, and other services, but for me the browser bookmarks with some form of organization works best. I like and use all Chrome shortcuts and nifty features for bookmarks, and even if the browsers seem to be going into a different direction (see Chrome's "smart" bookmarks), as the saying goes they will have to pry them from my cold, dead hands.

(At the moment I have 519 bookmarks in 73 folders)

psiegmann 1 day ago 0 replies      
I'm quite happy with a set of project specific bookmarks to get people up-to-speed quicker.We have web-{dev/acc/prd}, cms-{acc/prd}, jira, confluence, buildsystem, log-{dev/acc/prd}, etc

We maintain the bookmarks in yaml and generate the html to import into firefox/chrome/ie.Script: https://github.com/psiegman/bookmark-generator

blakesterz 1 day ago 0 replies      
The only part I use is the bookmark toolbar, which I use HEAVILY. Just counted, I have 30 in my toolbar. I never use any other bookmarks now though. I still have all my old bookmarks in backups going back to the late 90s though. Fun to look at every once in a while.
madiathomas 1 day ago 0 replies      
I have seven folders of bookmarks. Each for different topic/subject. Whenever I come across a new link which I will need to refer to in future, I store it so that I can open it from the bookmark. If I am not going to need the bookmark or no longer interested in a certan subject, I delete the bookmark or the whole folder. Some of the bookmarks have been there since 2010 because they are of the tools I still use.

I use Chrome. I like the fact that the bookmarks are synced to my Android phone and work computer. That way they are available whenever I want to use computer.

mirimir 1 day ago 0 replies      
I use bookmarks in Firefox in three ways. Sites that I use frequently go in the toolbar. Sites that I use rarely go in folders in the toolbar. Sites that I just want to remember go in "other bookmarks", and later I search for them.
davidp670 1 day ago 1 reply      
I stopped using Chrome bookmarks b/c they got too messy but now I use Bookmark OS which I really like. It kinda like Mac OSX but for bookmarks in the browser https://bookmarkos.com
IE6 1 day ago 0 replies      
Yes but not like I used to. When I was younger and had time I would bookmark things, organize them, and use them to navigate to sites of interest. Now I simply use bookmarks as a dumping ground for 'something I need to see but later because I am tired now and not using the internet for anything serious'.
nafizh 1 day ago 0 replies      
Surprise no one mentioned pocket. I use the pocket chrome extension. Compared to the bookmark system, using it is a breeze and much more clean. More importantly, I can also find them back later with my poor memory.
nebyoolae 1 day ago 0 replies      
I do still use bookmarks, but only for places I go a lot, and I sync them via Chrome. Pocket is a godsend for the "cool links" that I check out when I have time and then usually archive away, never to look at again.
ronreiter 1 day ago 0 replies      
Reading list is not bookmarks. And of course we do use bookmarks, especially those who work in companies that require frequent access to several systems.
nsarafa 1 day ago 0 replies      
Ironically, I just cleared out my chrome bookmarks today. Found it far too difficult trying to find the correct folder hidden in a long list of old/dead folders/links. After I purged, I stumbled upon the chrome bookmarks manager browser extension that makes the process of adding a bookmark much easier as you can type to search (https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/bookmark-manager/g...)
comboy 1 day ago 1 reply      
The thread is already pretty long and it looks like I'm the first one to mention https://google.com/save - works quite well.
seltzered_ 1 day ago 0 replies      
No, I don't use browser bookmarks or bar shortcuts. For me at least, I feel like those needs have been replaced by:

- pinboard. Been using it for many years

- DuckDuckGo's interrobang search to quickly access pin board bookmarks / maps / etc.

- the browser URL bars own autocomplete

- this may have happened also since until recently, I used different browsers on mobile (Firefox) vs desktop (safari)

svartkonst 1 day ago 0 replies      
I do, semi-organized into folders. Mostly for archival purposes. If I come across something, a product or library och guide or whatever, that I want to save, I bookmark it.

I don't use the bookmark tabs, and I'm not regularly using what I have in my bookmarks, they're more for safekeeping, and to remind myself aobut things.

Plus it's fun to take a look through the bookmarks and rediscover things.

savethefuture 1 day ago 2 replies      
I do, but I have them export and upload to my server daily so I can keep them in sync. I don't organize them, I just use search and find. They're all relevant links I wish to look at or read at a later date.
damat 1 day ago 0 replies      
I'm not only just using bookmarks but even pushed them to more advanced level with own extension for Chrome:https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/quick-startpage/dg...
ungzd 1 day ago 0 replies      
Yes, but in single folder (maintaining tree structure is pain) and rarely access it. Del.icio.us was very convenient, seems that it still exists but seems that they deleted all old data and may close again soon.
AldousHaxley 1 day ago 0 replies      
YES! So many things to read, and I hate having a million tabs open at once. Even if I don't get around to something until months later, bookmarks are an indispensable tool.
mehdix 1 day ago 0 replies      
Oh, yes I do use them a lot. I store my bookmarks flat, with no structure. In Chrome, I add keywords to the title upon bookmarking and later I do keyword-based searches. In fact, I developed my own Chrome extension to search bookmarks: https://goo.gl/paiU3o
ivm 1 day ago 0 replies      
No, I run a local MoinMoin instance with database in Dropbox and arrange different topics in pages there, including links.
vermooten 1 day ago 0 replies      
I've still got 100s of bookmarks from the late 90s, still in their original sub-folders. Most are dead now, which is a shame.
sigi45 1 day ago 0 replies      
Yes. I hide my bookmarkbar on tabs and only see them on new tab.

I have in my bookmark bar the most used sites. I have a few folders for topics and for work bookmarks.

Bookmarks help me to close a tab. It gives me the feeling that i still can read it but i don't have to do so now. Sometimes, depending on the content, i pocket it instead of using a bookmark for it.

astrikos 1 day ago 0 replies      
Right now I use pocket, but I want to try stash!

I will definitely write a short review, but I need 10 people to view the link to help me access it first: https://stash.ai/landing?source=f520deef

dingdingdang 1 day ago 0 replies      
Yes, extensively - have them arranged in the Firefox bookmark bar with along with folders to drop down for categories like "search", "news", "projects", etc. For everything that needs remembering in a more tertiary sense I bookmark without folders but use tags. FF's system, similar to Chrome's, that can synchronize across to other computers and phones while keeping encrypted stuff in the cloud makes bookmarks a lot less volatile in nature than they used to be.
tarboreus 1 day ago 0 replies      
I just keep links in easily searchable text files. When I need something I can just search for it. Emacs orgmode allows for nice links, you can open the page straight from the text file.
petercooper 1 day ago 0 replies      
No, I created a simple Ruby script that stores them in a text file and lets me easily search them at the command line. Syncs through Dropbox so I have it on all my machines :)
ramigb 1 day ago 0 replies      
Yep, I also built a chrome extension to manage bookmarks ...


sriku 1 day ago 0 replies      
I use but don't rely on bookmarks as I usually want to add some information when saving a reference. My tool of choice is Zotero [1] which I started using during researcher days and never looked back. If you organize your references into collections, then zotero can make some nice summaries for you.

[1]: https://www.zotero.org

Jayakumark 1 day ago 0 replies      
Have more than 150,000 Links in Pinboard. I Bookmark every new site that i like when i come across. Wanted to start something similar to producthunt from those, but never got to it. May be someday would make it like a Yahoo directory but that day never comes.
Grue3 1 day ago 0 replies      
Yes, I use the star in Firefox URL bar (yeah, I know, they moved it recently for some reason) to mark the websites I'd want to revisit and add a bunch of tags to them. Then, if I forget about something, I can always search by tag. These are filed as "Unsorted bookmarks". I pretty much never use Bookmarks menu, because searching by tag is more efficient.
jakub_g 1 day ago 0 replies      
I use bookmarks at work, mostly as a big jar of deeplinks to wiki pages, dashboards etc etc - I do not organize them nicely into subfolders, just rely on my memory on how I named them and parts of URL. The more often I use the page, the shorter the keyword. I use CTRL-L and bookmark name to open pages all the time.
nicky0 1 day ago 0 replies      
I use bookmarks for mundane services I use semi-regularly: online banking, government services, electric, gas, water company, insurance company and so on.

Also admin stuff like webhost control panel, bugtracker, iTunes Connect etc.

Arranged in favourites bar in folders by category.

Saved articles go in pinboard.in however.

etiam 1 day ago 0 replies      
Yes. In a "folder" hierarchy in the built-in Firefox bookmarks manager.I often wish for a better interface to move around in the tree though (e.g. filter for a bookmark or folder and see what's stored close to it) and some sort of aliases for multiple classifications would be handy sometimes.
alphydan 1 day ago 0 replies      
I need to access 3 pages and 7 google drive folders almost every day for work. Those are the only browser bookmarks I have because they save me 20 - 30 clicks/day.
jhwhite 1 day ago 1 reply      
I do but I'm very slowly moving away from them in some instances.

If I come across articles I like I save them to instapaper instead of bookmark.

For work...I've pretty much created my own wiki of bookmarks using OneNote. Employer uses SharePoint and some pages won't display or work correctly in Chrome, so I use IE for work intranet. So instead of bookmarks I have a notebook and put tags in the notebook for easy searching and I can put a good description of the site.

Moto7451 1 day ago 0 replies      
Yup. I use Safari on my Mac and everything syncs nicely between my devices care of iCloud. I use folders within the bookmark bar to organize things.
markatkinson 1 day ago 0 replies      
Yea it turns out my bookmarks are a graveyard for things I'll never read. The Android HN app I use let's me Mark articles as read later and most the time it works offline so I tend to use that more. When I find myself on a plane with no reception I dip into my list of offline HN articles.
jiiam 1 day ago 0 replies      
Yep. When I'm doing a somewhat specialized research I bookmark interesting results and add a tag for future reference. Usually the time after which they are forgotten is ~1 week, because they either served their purpose or became irrelevant, but sometimes I still use some of them.
wazoox 1 day ago 0 replies      
I use the same set of bookmarks in Firefox migrating and evolving since 1997 and Netscape 1.0 on IRIX. Some are surprisingly durables.In any case even with URL rot they are useful as reminders of pages I want to keep as references.
Huhty 1 day ago 0 replies      
Yes, I have Chrome synced between all devices and PCs.
steverandy 1 day ago 0 replies      
I use a browser called Colibri (https://colibri.opqr.co/).

It has something called Links, where all URLs that you added are sorted by date. You can save a URL quickly with keyboard shortcut (CMD+D).

I also organize the links that I frequently visit by topics in the Lists section.

justaaron 1 day ago 0 replies      
of course I "still" use browser bookmarks. Bookmarks, back/forward buttons, it's amazing but you don't actually need to kluge more poop on top of browser behavior to make it usable! Believe it or not, they made it right the first time.
sametmax 1 day ago 0 replies      
Yes. Stuff to real later, stuff I want to share, resources I might come back to, quick grouped access to tools I use regularly (but not frequantly), links related to each of my dev missions, etc.
alkonaut 1 day ago 0 replies      
No. Autocomplete in the URL field only.

I never save anything for later, I either read it or forget it. I only regularly visit a few dozen sites, so usually the site is completed in the URL field after 1 character (such as "n" to load HN).

DanBC 1 day ago 0 replies      

I make sure I use a descriptive sentence when I save them.

They're useful to me because the people creating the pages don't know about SEO and Google fucking sucks at giving me the pages I need unless I use weird contorted search phrases or remember the exact name of the document.

I have 12 icons in my bookmark toolbar that I use daily. I have a few that I don't use very often.

jesus92gz-spain 1 day ago 0 replies      
I do.I have my Chrome browsers in sync, categorised in folders.I do also have "Read later" bookmarks, as I sometimes find interesting websites or news I cannot read entirely because I'm busy or whatever other reason.
trojanh 1 day ago 0 replies      
Since in today's age there no unified platform , it doesn't make sense to use bookmarks to me. I use Pocket an alternative which does the bookmark smartly. It stores the webpages oflline on my mobile so it becomes very handy.
squiggy22 1 day ago 0 replies      
I wish Google would create a separate index of all the stuff I bookmark, and provide it as a subset of the Google search experience. I too find myself Google searching for info Ive previously browsed.
scarface74 1 day ago 0 replies      
Yes. But, except for work related URLs, I rarely go back and use them.

If it is an interesting web site with good articles, I subscribe to the RSS feed.

My bookmarks stay synced between my iPhone and Chrome on Windows using Apple's iCloud Chrome plug in. It stays synced between Chrome on different computers using my Chrome account.

wtbob 1 day ago 2 replies      
Yes, I use them. I prefer them to any online service because they are completely under my own control. I do wish that I could securely sync them, but ever since Firefox completely broke the security of their Sync system, there's nothing I can rely on to safely sync for me. It's not a huge deal
midhunsezhi 21 hours ago 0 replies      
I use them very rarely. Pocket has become my preferred source for storing, managing and sharing my links now.
tjbiddle 1 day ago 0 replies      
Not really - L to get to the address bar, and then autocomplete handles the rest as I start typing for 99% of use-cases. However I know I used bookmarks semi-recently when I was working on a project where I was regularly using websites that I don't normally use.
pjc50 1 day ago 0 replies      
Yes, in small quantities and not synced. They're for sites I visit regularly, or essential intranet pages at work.

Stuff I want archived for reference or I want to read later goes to Pinboard.in.

goodJobWalrus 1 day ago 1 reply      
I do, but I consciously keep only a small number of them (ideally not much more than 100) and regularly purge.
ehnto 1 day ago 0 replies      
I use bookmarklets to perform tasks on sites to make them more readable. Actual bookmarked websites is less common but I have a few. Normally it is for short term "I will forget this otherwise" sites that get removed when I no longer need them.
jasonkostempski 1 day ago 0 replies      
I used to use and painfully maintain them for reference materials but they proved to be less useful than just reGoogling, so I stopped. ReGoogling isn't great either, I'd like an easy to use PKB but I wouldn't want it to be directly built into my browser.
ertucetin 1 day ago 0 replies      
Also I use Diigo it's a very cool and intuitive tool so I highly recommend it: https://www.diigo.com
Ask HN: What is it that you hate about the Unity Desktop?
15 points by pkd  7 hours ago   29 comments top 14
billconan 42 minutes ago 0 replies      
I like unity overall. I kinda hope they keep it.

but my most usage of unity is just the left side bar. I don't use, for example, the search-and-find thing that much.

I like unity's color scheme too.

The only time I was pissed was when they enforced you to do amazon search in unity.

I actually don't think unity has lost to others technical-wise or design-wise. it loses, because it didn't follow the Principle of least astonishment https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principle_of_least_astonishmen...

most people are reluctant to ui change. a small change would piss people off (ios5 to ios7, for example). unity just looks too different. the hatred is not necessarily rational I think.

if unity is going away, out of all the options, I like kde and xfce. I dislike gnome because of my early development experience with gdk.

hendersoon 5 hours ago 2 replies      
I dislike the persistent MacOS-style menubar. This UI choice makes sense on small screen sizes but not so much in a desktop environment with giant monitors.

That's really Unity's core failure; it was ambitiously designed to adapt to multiple formats (phone, tablet, laptop, desktop) and in the end, the required compromises led to a UX that wasn't _great_ in any form factor.

Microsoft tried the same thing with Windows 8 and had the EXACT same result. They alienated their core market of desktop/laptop users and completely failed to find traction in mobile/touch. Much like Ubuntu, Microsoft backed off that strategy with Windows 10 offering more substantially tailored experiences for mobile and desktop use.

Apple was smart and never tried a one size fits all strategy. Their mobile and desktop UX is entirely different.

Circling back to Unity, I also hate the window controls on the left. Not that controls on the right are intrinsically superior, just that I'm more accustomed to that location from other desktops. It seems contrarian and I just can't get used to it.

dsr_ 6 hours ago 0 replies      
Beats me, I've never used it.

I try not to screw with working infrastructure, so it can become invisible to me. I've been using X11 for 24 years now. It's nice that it gained 3D capabilities, but I don't play games much, so the largest daily impact is that there are shadows under windows. Big whoop. Smooth video-playing is a much nicer feature, and we've had that for a decade.

I used fvwm, rxvt and netscape browser for years. Netscape mutated into Firefox. I added Chrome because it turns out that having two completely different browsers is an advantage for me. rxvt became rxvt-unicode. I might still be using fvwm, but XFCE has easier configuration when I move to a new machine, which happens often enough that I value it.

It will be nice when I can get the RX460 downstairs to drive the 4K monitor at 60Hz instead of 30Hz, but it's only going to be a minor improvement.

There are two kinds of idiots: the idiot who says "this is new, so it must be better" and the idiot who says "this is old, so it must be better". I try not to be either kind.

hashhar 5 hours ago 2 replies      
First, Mir:

I believe fragmentation is a very big issue in the Free Software world. Since both Mir and Wayland wanted to work towards the same goal with minor differences in details, they should have banded together and have had proper discussions regarding both their ideas. It encourages better solutions and sometimes new things are born.

Mir was also never as performant as Wayland and didn't have any window manager apart from Unity to test with.


I personally don't have a thing against Unity but there were (16.04 days) some inconveniences like being unable to customize the dock. The separate toolbar and menu bar. GNOME does have thicker titlebars but combines toolbars, menubars and titlebars in their native apps.

GNOME also has a rich ecosystem of extensions. (Please stop breaking them through updates GNOME!!!). GNOME has a better universal search than Unity, is comparatively faster and snappier than Unity.

GNOME suffers from the problem of poor defaults which are easily fixed by distribution vendors. (Kali Linux ships with a dock, topbar and other IMO necessary extensions.)

pebers 5 hours ago 1 reply      
Mostly small things like "stickiness" when moving mouse between monitors, or the conflation of apps & windows on the launcher bar that always seemed to make it hard to switch between different windows in the same app, or launch new windows of the same app. My memory is a little vague though since I tried it briefly when I got it at work a few years back, didn't like it, and switched to Cinnamon which I've been using since. To be fair to Canonical, that switch was painless and Cinnamon hasn't been without it's little idiosyncrasies as well.

My guess is that people think Canonical should have been focusing more on general distro reliability (e.g. the infamous "/boot fills up with kernels" bug) than reinventing parts of it. Hindsight is 20/20 though, we'd be having a different conversation if Mir had proven a big step forward over X.

htkibar 6 hours ago 0 replies      
Except for the color scheme, I actually liked Unity a lot. It was a sad thing to hear that Mark decided to shut it down.
timonoko 7 hours ago 1 reply      
Latest version of Unity made it impossible to switch to LXDE. Most despicable. Previously if you somehow managed to find Unity terminal window (not easy) and install LXDE, then if you logout, there was a menu where you can uninstall Unity for all eternity. This time I could not figure out what to do, so I installed ready made Lubuntu instead.
FreakyT 5 hours ago 1 reply      
Unity was terrible for the same reason Windows 8's original (pre 8.1) UI was terrible: search was considered "the" way to access applications, and therefore there was no easy way to access installed applications for which you didn't already know the name.

If I remember correctly, to get a list of installed apps, you had to click "view more..." at least twice from inside the Unity menu. Compare that to Windows 8, which required right clicking the background of the Start Screen and then clicking "All Apps...", which is similarly nonintuitive.

nailer 3 hours ago 0 replies      
The lack of thought for UX: the point of icons is to be visually distinct: adding the same shiny shape because Unity devs liked MacOS circa 2005 defeats the purpose of that.
jcfrei 5 hours ago 0 replies      
To me Unity always felt like it was designed for people using laptops with trackpads, because they go to great lengths to make sure you don't have to move the mouse pointer very far. All the shortcuts based on the super key are another indicator of this. However if you have a proper desktop computer with a mouse, keyboard and ample screen estate a lot of these shortcuts often just stand in the way of your work.
I_am_neo 7 hours ago 0 replies      
Mir, it never delivered the performance that was promised, and I've never liked unity it's a hassle to use. I just wanted my applications, I don't want to be online 24/7 searching from my app launcher for things I know are on my hard drive. I don't care for eye candy, it's cool to look at the first week or two, but I quickly find myself disabling every transition effect I can find to get those few ms of performance I want from my OS.
brudgers 6 hours ago 0 replies      
I prefer Unity to Gnome. I prefer Windows 10 to both. I prefer a tiling window manager to all of them. So I use Xmonad on Ubuntu.
peterhi 6 hours ago 1 reply      
No one asked for Unity, it was just dumped on us and later iterations became harder and harder to remove. So I jumped ship to Mint.

Mir, don't know. What problem was it supposed to solve?

skdotdan 4 hours ago 0 replies      
Answering a different question, but what I liked about it was the Mac-like global menu bar.
Websites requiring a phone number is bad business and potential discrimination
3 points by teslacar  6 hours ago   3 comments top 2
tjalfi 4 minutes ago 0 replies      
80% of Americans below the federal poverty line have cellphones. (http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/terence-p-jeffrey/census...)
smt88 6 hours ago 1 reply      
1) More than 92% of Americans have cell phones[1].

2) An SMS/MMS-enabled number is free from Google Voice.

3) Cell plans don't require credit (except possibly for the phone itself). You can pre-pay.

4) This may be discrimination, but so is requiring an email address. The question is whether it's illegal discrimination, and the answer is no. "Phone type" is not a protected class, like race or religion, in the United States. "Income level" is also not a protected class.

1. http://www.pewinternet.org/2015/08/26/chapter-1-always-on-co...

Are we on American Idol?
7 points by juanignacio  6 hours ago   3 comments top 3
taway_1212 1 hour ago 0 replies      
> It felt weird because the chances are so slim that one would assume that not winning should not come as a surprise or a shocker. Still they cry.

I've read an interview with ex-assistant on one of those shows and it was part of her job to routinely rile up contestants just before they were put in front of the camera. In this specific case, it was a "Top Chef" kind of show, and she was telling everyone that the celebrity chef running the show has just tried the contestant's dish and said that it's utter garbage etc (while in fact the dish was fine and they were not close to elimination) - everything to get them shaken and close to tears for the show. Very nasty business.

smt88 6 hours ago 0 replies      
This is actually a great analogy that I'll use in the future when I meet people who think they're the next Mark Zuckerberg.

Statistically speaking, I'd bet someone entering American Idol is more likely to win than a startup is likely to become a unicorn.

(Also -- it's fine and normal to cry if your startup fails. For many or most, it will even result in clinical depression.)

mrits 3 hours ago 0 replies      
If you aren't having enough fun on the journey then you might not be cut out for it.
Ask HN: Is Make School worth it?
3 points by pouta  7 hours ago   5 comments top 3
tqkxzugoaupvwqr 4 hours ago 0 replies      
I don't know Make School, but can give general search advice however: Search for "make school" in combination with words like "scam", "sucks", "not worth it", "terrible", "experience" to find critical posts. You can also do it with positive words to get to know the other side. If tuition is steep, try "make school" and "grant", "support" etc.
ratsmack 5 hours ago 1 reply      
Referring to this I believe:


edimaudo 6 hours ago 1 reply      
Yes school is worth it but you have to make sure you make the best use of the knowledge and teachers you have.
Ask HN: Experience working with African developers
6 points by throwzaway  9 hours ago   7 comments top 5
smt88 7 hours ago 0 replies      
You know Africa is a continent with 1.2B people on it, right? Dozens of countries, thousands of cultures.

Any generalization you get is going to be anecdotal far beyond the point of being meaningless.

There are amazing devs in every country. A better question is how to find out whether someone is a genius before hiring her and how to search for such people efficiently.

tchaffee 7 hours ago 0 replies      
> Last year, our obviously racist hiring manager

> African developers in general?

Don't be your racist hiring manager. Stop trying to generalize.

elorm 5 hours ago 0 replies      
Breadth and Depth of education in Africa vary from country to country but the anglophone countries usually stick out more.

If your developer is from Nigeria or Ghana there is a high chance he may be speaking the truth. Churn rates of good developers in those countries are pretty high. Focus on mathematics and algorithms are used to weed out the weak developers.

South Africa and Kenya also produce very talented developers and my general experience with them has been mostly pleasant.

If you're looking for Native English speakers with manageable accents, look no further.

PaulHoule 8 hours ago 2 replies      
People who manage to get a lot of education in Africa often turn out to be pretty smart.
edimaudo 6 hours ago 0 replies      
If you are looking for great African dev check out Andela.
Ask HN: Why are there no modern phones running open source operating systems?
11 points by mmathias  1 day ago   7 comments top 5
mossmoth 11 hours ago 0 replies      
You have Sailfish OS [0], which is ported to rather modern (albeit somewhat low spec) phones (e.g. Fairphone 2, Jolla C [1]). Sailfish also has an Android compatability layer (think Wine for Linux) so it can run most Android apps.

[0] - https://sailfishos.org/[1] - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sailfish_OS#Hardware_overvie...

beckler 16 hours ago 0 replies      
I will always be disappointed that WebOS never had a proper leg to stand on. The Palm Pre was my absolute favorite phone, but the hardware was just too far behind. Whenever I heard WebOS was made open-source I was hoping someone would take it and make a great phone OS, but I haven't seen anyone try. Instead it's used to power new TVs and printers.
addcn 22 hours ago 1 reply      
Android is open source.
edimaudo 18 hours ago 0 replies      
Counting out Android building a mobile OS is a huge investment with very little returns.
aey 19 hours ago 1 reply      
Because of Qualcomm
Ask HN: How much do you make?
10 points by gymmaster  21 hours ago   14 comments top 8
Rainymood 12 hours ago 0 replies      
There will be a huge selection bias + reporting bias here. HN has a lot of people with relatively high wages and people are more inclined to state their earnings when they are high, just keep this in mind.

Also: cost of living is a huge factor in salary, if you earn over 100k in the Netherlands you're considered loaded, but I keep hearing stories about software devs in the US starting out with 100k.

Mz 21 hours ago 0 replies      
How much do you make in SF/Seattle/NYC/Vancouver? What is your household income?

I will suggest you delete everything but the above. You will get better answers. Otherwise, you can probably expect a lot of snark and not much real information.

skylark 12 hours ago 0 replies      
In San Francisco, fresh grads can expect to make between 95-115k at a startup or non-tech company. For the tech giants, check Glassdoor - it's spot on for people with <5 years of experience because of the volume of people submitting information. Their numbers have consistently been in line with offers I've received.
monkey26 16 hours ago 0 replies      
I'm not in any of those markets but have lived and worked in Vancouver, and if I still did would likely have the same job as I do now.

$84k US but living in a part of Canada much cheaper than Vancouver. 4 days a week. No crazy corporate or startup deadlines. All open source.

hackerboos 17 hours ago 0 replies      
Toronto: $94,000 CAD and 5-10% bonus. Pension is matched 13% defined benefit plan.
tradersam 21 hours ago 0 replies      
> I feel like I am paid poor man's salary despite being knowledgeable.

Trying living on 25k in Los Angeles.

CyberFonic 20 hours ago 0 replies      
Quite a bit less than enough :-)
psyc 16 hours ago 3 replies      
Seattle. At my last 3 jobs, I made $135k, then $110k, then $90k, in that order, as both my skills and the profile/prestige of the products increased.
Ask HN: What are your favorite browser extensions?
16 points by nsarafa  1 day ago   13 comments top 11
textread 4 hours ago 0 replies      
- Bookmark Search , lets you type 'bm' + <space> and search any of your bookmarks in the omnibar
dvko 1 day ago 0 replies      
- uBlock Origin (cosmetic filtering): https://github.com/gorhill/uBlock/

- uMatrix (host-based filtering): https://github.com/gorhill/umatrix/

- HTTPS Everywhere: https://www.eff.org/https-everywhere

- Self Destructing Cookies (fine grained cookie control): https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/self-destruct..., the latest Chrome & FF have better settings for this built-in though.

replax 1 day ago 0 replies      
Tried many extensions for vim-like control of my browser, but pentadactyl is by far the most usable. Even without any customisation, just pressing 's' and instantly being able to search with auto completion ('b' for the same across all open tabs) is incredibly useful.

Hopefully it won't be discontinued soon..

AlexAMEEE 1 day ago 0 replies      
In my opinion, the best Vim implementation for the browser.I tried many .. but this one is incredible.


auganov 1 day ago 0 replies      
I'll list ones that haven't been mentioned yet:

-Emoji Keyboard (2016) by EmojiOne

-ImprovedTube for a default x2 playback on yt

-Google translate, lets you select any text and get an instant translation

-Octotree, a directory tree for github

samblr 1 day ago 1 reply      
Does anybody worry about extensions collecting data from your browsing ? Since most do read your website information ?
slingblade 1 day ago 0 replies      
PocketGrammarly LightHouseuBlock Origin
PhantomGremlin 1 day ago 0 replies      
NoScript. By default I keep JavaScript disabled. Safer browsing, and, as a highly beneficial side effect, very few ads.
mukeshm 1 day ago 0 replies      
- Authy

- Session buddy

- uBlock Origin

- Privacy Badger

- HTTPS Everywhere

- Imagus

- Momentum

shincert 1 day ago 0 replies      
uBlock Origin

Privacy Badger

The Great Suspender

No History

HTTPS Everywhere

Refined Wikipedia

Ask HN: What are the OSS alternatives to iOS/Android?
248 points by benevol  3 days ago   236 comments top 41
i336_ 3 days ago 8 replies      
Long-term (1-2 years or so), keep an eye on Fuchsia. Nobody yet knows what Google's intentions are with this project relative to Android (which has a staggering installed base, btw, and is going to stubbornly stick around like a slightly less terrible Windows Mobile 6); right now it's just a research project. But it can apparently scale from tiny IoT sensors to ARM phones to x86 PCs.

https://lwn.net/Articles/718267/ / https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14002386

EDIT: This just got downvoted to 0, unsure why...

darrmit 3 days ago 6 replies      
Am I the only one who has decided that I'm more comfortable with iOS and an AppleID than I am with something like LineageOS and still having to have a Google account - even though I prefer Android?

I'm operating under the assumption that Apple is more privacy friendly than Google under pretty much any circumstance.

I've done the Cyanogen + F-Droid thing and it's just miserably inconvenient, and none of the "proprietary" alternative app stores have any sort of catalog to write home about.

heuller 3 days ago 4 replies      
We need hardware that doesn't need to get upgraded every two years. AOSP doesn't cut it since Google inevitably stops building isos for their hardware and the community can't support a million devices. The whole market is sorely in need of generic drivers. The fact that I can pick up a PC from the nineties and install an up to date Linux proves that we're not there yet in the mobile world.

Is there a way currently to install baremetal Linux on a phone without emulating it? A small Linux, usb microphone and VoIP would get me 90% there.

Nutomic 3 days ago 5 replies      
I'm personally using LinageOS together with microG and F-Droid. MicroG is necessary if you don't have Google apps installed, to get push notifications. Unfortunately, it is still rather complicated to install.


hannob 3 days ago 5 replies      
The alternative is Android. Unfortunately the "alternative android" ecosystem isn't very good.

My dream would be an android "distribution", that doesn't rely on some murky "update by getting a new image somewhere if you're lucky enough that someone built one for your device". WOuld work more like a linux distribution (packages and updating) and is generic over a variety of phones. Challenge is probably how to handle drivers.

jumasheff 3 days ago 4 replies      
SailfishOS https://sailfishos.org/


Jolla -- company behind SailfishOS (ex-Nokia people) https://jolla.com/about/

koehr 3 days ago 3 replies      
The problem is that most of the hardware is not open. It is hard to get fully open software running in proprietary environments like mobile phones and networks. The fairphone might be worth a look though: https://www.fairphone.com/en/
jhasse 3 days ago 5 replies      
Android (without Google Services) is FOSS. Check out http://lineageos.org/ (successor of CyanogenMod).

As a replacement for the Play Store, check out https://f-droid.org/

Jonnax 3 days ago 3 replies      
There is Tizen which is being led by Samsung


However news that one researcher has found 40 0-days for it doesn't really sound good:


I remember reading about Plasma Mobile


But it looks like the latest phone they use as a Dev device is a Nexus 5x so it may be stalled/dead

hcal 3 days ago 1 reply      
The http://puri.sm people are trying to make an open source phone running their distro PureOS (based on debian). They even said on a podcast that they have removed or mitigated the binary blob issues. Apparently they are already working with Gnome developers to make Gnome work on a small screen and build the specialized phone software like a dialer.


demarq 3 days ago 1 reply      
Jolla on a Sony Experia?

Sony put everything you need to run your OS on some of their Xperia phones on GitHub as part of their Open Device Program. Jolla which is going to become open source sometime has been successfully (in feburary 2017) run on one of the devices.

So in the near future, there is hope in that direction.

emilsedgh 3 days ago 1 reply      
If you want community based FOSS mobile operating system that is actively developed [0], Plasma Mobile is the answer.

I think the biggest issue is still device support.

[0] https://mail.kde.org/pipermail/plasma-devel/2017-April/threa...

tannhaeuser 3 days ago 2 replies      
My best bet would be to restart/re-instantiate a community around CyanogenMod/Lineage OS, Android being F/OSS after all. Though maybe the community around CM is still strong (I honestly don't know).

Question is, are you willing to spend money (or testing/integration efforts) on a community O/S for your phone in exchange for knowing that you're not being spied on all the time?

I could imagine a model where you pay a reasonable price for a tested/supported third-party O/S, but maybe CM has shown this isn't economically feasible.

tray5 3 days ago 0 replies      
unicornporn 3 days ago 1 reply      
My vote goes to https://copperhead.co/android/

I've been running it for some time now and I like it a lot. Support for a lot of phones? No. Wide range of apps available via F-droid? Decent.

I'm not a very appy guy though. Most of my needs are browser based.

lloeki 3 days ago 1 reply      
I was just reading about webOS[0] lately and it turns out LuneOS[1] exists and is supposed to work wherever cyanogenmod did.

[0]: http://www.openwebosproject.org

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LuneOS

TheAceOfHearts 3 days ago 1 reply      
I placed a preorder for a Pyra [0]. I'm hoping it works well enough to allow me to replace my locked down Pixel.

[0] https://pyra-handheld.com/boards/pages/pyra/

dandelion_lover 3 days ago 2 replies      
To me the best alternative is https://neo900.org. However, expensive it is.

They truly care about the privacy and redesign the hardware according to this goal.

phh 3 days ago 1 reply      
Ok, so Android is open-source as mentioned already by other comments.

Now the thing with Android is that, it is just a framework, so saying Android is Open Source is missing big pointsThere are two major limits:1. What about apps?2. What about drivers?

Today, if you get an Android phone with Google Apps, especially Google Play Store, you have access to many tools that can be considered useful for everyday use, which you won't have with FOSS Android. Here are some examples:

With Play Store, you can have (mostly?) any IM, as long as you install the app going with it. The only possibility I know to do that with FOSS Android, is to use matrix or IRC, and have server-side libpuprle connectors.

With FOSS Android You don't have factorized push socket: Most apps pushing notifications on Android require GCM. But even if it doesn't require GCM, there is nothing fully open-source an app developer can use. All they can do, is open a socket to their own server, and deal with it, which is a huge battery-killer.

Many people are mentioning f-droid as an alternative to Play Store. I'm sorry, but I consider this a joke. I highly respect the work done on f-droid, but this is not a usable alternative.For instance, you want to save your SMS. We call that backup, but not every knows that.Well you search for "save sms" on f-droid. No result.You search for "save sms" on Google Play Store, the second result is SMS Backup+ which is open-source! You search for SMS, the result is on the first page.Same thing happen if you just search for "sms", QKSMS (an opensource SMS application) is much easier to find with Google Play Store than f-droid.Even to look for open-source apps, you're better off with Google Play Store!Again, I totally respect F-Droid devs, this is this way because of their choice of not tracking or saving any user information at all, which is legit.But then, some people might want something intermediary. Just counting the number of installations of an app can be really useful to better sort apps (SMS Backup+ and QKSMS really deserve to be among the top in the results for SMS).

Now, about the drivers. Yes Android is open-source, but good luck running a phone with a FOSS Android!At the moment, you have the choice with either replicant, which is old and missing gpu acceleration, or running a mainline Linux kernel with Mesa & stuff, but then you have no radio.

Though I have to mention that on the drivers side, Sailfish OS and Ubuntu phone have also those problems.

gingerbread-man 3 days ago 4 replies      
It would be nice if there were a 100% free-software version of Android available, or a way to remove all of the proprietary blobs from an Android phone.
redsummer 3 days ago 0 replies      
The ZeroPhone is based on the raspberry pi.


Reddit AMA: https://www.reddit.com/r/raspberry_pi/comments/5nwmfx/im_mak...

$50. Calling, SMS.Alarm clock, calendar, calculator, phonebook, file browser, web browser and music player. I expect these will be very simple given the screen.

elchudi2 3 days ago 0 replies      
sparkling 3 days ago 0 replies      
LinageOS + OpenGapps for a minimal Google Play Services installation (the "nano" flavour). Just make sure to buy a device that has a large userbase and good LinageOS community support [1]. I am using a $170 Xiaomi Redmi Note 3 with LineageOS and could not be happier with it.

[1] check out https://stats.lineageos.org/ for popular devices and also check the devices subforum on the XDA forums

SamWhited 3 days ago 0 replies      
I've been using OmniROM (https://omnirom.org/); it was a fork of Cyanogenmod when they went commercial initially. Not sure what the difference is between it and LineageoOS or why the lineage people didn't just start developing for omnirom; maybe they still have political differences or something. Regardless, it seems to work well.
jimmies 3 days ago 0 replies      
You are at the point of 2002-2004 of Desktop OS - if you want to use a mobile OSS OS, you're just have to deal with lots of inconveniences. It depends on what are you looking for and what you find tolerable. I have been annoyed with the current paradigms of modern mobile OSes where I'm constantly bombarded with notifications and things that I need to keep up with. So for me, an usable OSS can have lots of drawback that I'm willing to sacrifice - I don't need any of the notifications or apps.

If you don't care about the aesthetic, your best bet is Lineage. It is Android without Google and you can still get lots of stuff done.

Personally, I came back to a cheap WebOS phone with a cheap plan and after I installed WebOS 2, it has been really usable. LuneOS is supposed to be the continuation of WebOS, but it's just not that usable yet - I see no way to sync with my Google account (which syncs fine with the 10 year old WebOS instance via Exchange). So I would keep an eye on the LuneOS development. For such a niche and small dev team, they have been continuing making improvements. Totally impressed by that.

bikamonki 3 days ago 1 reply      
I've faced the same dilemma and ended up stuck in Android bc of one single app: Whatsapp. A phone is (still) mostly a communications tool and 99,99% of my contacts use Whatsapp as the primary tool to chat/call/share. So, unless I want to be an e-hermit I need a phone that runs Whatsapp.

(For a little while, there was an unofficial Whatsapp API which I used to bridge chats to my Firefox OS ZTE)

webaholic 3 days ago 0 replies      
Maru OS. It installs a debian system along-side Android, not sure if it's alternative enough though.


fsiefken 3 days ago 0 replies      
* FreeRTOS Pebble (Pebble LIVES!)https://github.com/ginge/FreeRTOS-Pebble

* Tizen OShttps://developer.tizen.org/https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tizen

Alternatively you could use Termux on Android to use the GNU/Linux ecosystem on your phone.

alinspired 2 days ago 0 replies      
LineageOS with your choice of google apps. Easy to do with opengapps config file or "aroma" gapps: https://github.com/opengapps/opengapps/wiki/Advanced-Feature...
FossParrot 3 days ago 0 replies      

Project seems to be abandoned?

chrisdevereux 3 days ago 3 replies      
Thought experiment: Say that I have a raspberry pi or similar. What hardware do I need to plug a sim card in and connect to a mobile network? Can I order it from a commodity supplier?
beagle3 3 days ago 1 reply      
Was there an official announcement on the killing of Ubuntu Phone? There was an official pause announcement, and it might as well be dead - is there an official status update?
daccle 3 days ago 0 replies      
Ubnutu Phone just works fine on a FairPhone2
grizzles 3 days ago 0 replies      
There is a group called Mediatek Android Developers. They make android work with some pretty low cost handsets.
d2kx 3 days ago 2 replies      
The next big OS is going to be Google Fuchsia, which runs on the Magenta kernel (not Linux) and runs apps built with Flutter.

Inb4 nay-sayers, but if you have followed Fuchsia for a few months and have seen the speed of development and just how many people and new technologies are involved, you will see why this isn't even a question.

tixocloud 3 days ago 0 replies      
How easy would it be to mod the loading screen and basic UI/UX on Android?
unlmtd 3 days ago 0 replies      
The problem isn't software. Let's say I have a dozen engineers to develop a mobile UI on top of BSD. What do we use? Nothing, Nada, rien. There is no real hardware. Even Linus can make a kernel, if there is hardware to develop it on! So software isn't the problem.
kevinSuttle 3 days ago 1 reply      
Am I the only one who misses Web OS and now Ubuntu Phone?
ry167 3 days ago 1 reply      
Android is open source: https://source.android.com/
Ask HN: Self-host a blog securely how? (WP? Staticgen?)
6 points by mancerayder  23 hours ago   10 comments top 7
samirmalpande 9 minutes ago 0 replies      
We are using SimplyStatic (https://wordpress.org/plugins/simply-static/) for genrating a static site from WordPress. It has many options which make genrating and deplying a static site with WordPress easy.

If you want to host site on S3 you can use the fork of Simply Static https://github.com/kennu/simply-static-s3

akg_67 19 hours ago 1 reply      
> I'm thinking I host a WordPress instance privately, at home, and I use a staticgen system (Pelican??) to export and push that out to a STATIC public site on a VPS I control. It still feels like a lot of work though.

What is the purpose of this exercise? Blogging or learning WP->static page migration path? If your purpose is blogging and you have no interest in admin and revenue generation, just host on WordPress.com. If you want more flexibility, just self-host WordPress.

Why make it more complicated by adding another path of WP->Static Pages?

stevenhubertron 5 hours ago 0 replies      
Jekyll + Netlify (CMS) and hosting.
type0 21 hours ago 0 replies      
Just use Caddy server with built in Hugo generator (you can choose it as an option when you download)
Mz 22 hours ago 0 replies      
FWIW, I hand coded my first blog, moved it to self hosted Word Press to try to focus more on content, less on the back end stuff and later moved to BlogSpot. I have been much more satisfied with BlogSpot.

They also have very recently released new themes.

rubatuga 21 hours ago 0 replies      
Ghost is great
smt88 23 hours ago 2 replies      
Why self-host?
Ask HN: What is the most valuable certificate (exam) you've accomplished?
11 points by RicCo386  1 day ago   4 comments top 4
autotune 1 day ago 0 replies      
RHCSA has probably been the most useful in terms of applied knowledge, while a few various AWS certs (associates, sysops) have been valuable in terms of being a consultant at an AWS Partner. I've found being able to demonstrate knowledge through experience by completing personal and professional projects to be more valuable long term though.
fegu 1 day ago 0 replies      
Microsoft certified professional (MCP) in Visual Basic 6 in 1999, no longer offered. Made a lot of money on that one.
jlgaddis 1 day ago 0 replies      
The "most valuable" one for me would have been the (Cisco) CCNP.

At a previous employer, though, we would get a raise for earning various certifications so I took a bunch of them that I wouldn't normally have taken. Most were worth at least a $1000 (USD) raise (added to my salary) and some (i.e. CCNP) were worth much more.

Mz 23 hours ago 0 replies      
Certificate in GIS, though not really for the reasons you list. I value the knowledge it gave me. I value more the drugs it got me.

Bedridden homemaker needs good drugs: "Clearly, she's a hypochondriac and addicted to antibiotics. No, bitch."

Same woman, different scenario:

Newly diagnosed with CF, borrows $19k to go to a summer tech boot camp: "Sure, honey, what drugs do you usually prefer? Here, let me tack on a few more for good measure."

Still alive nearly 15 years later.

Ask HN: Anybody using Amazon Machine Image for AWS Deep Learning?
68 points by DrNuke  3 days ago   39 comments top 18
bhouston 3 days ago 1 reply      
GPUs in the cloud right now are so pricy, in part I think because NVIDIA is making people put in K40s and K80 - the Quadro and Telsa class cards that are super expensive.

We started to put on premise machines that have GPUs in them to reduce our costs. We can get a desktop class Core i7 machine with a GeForce 1060 6GB for around $800 all in, where as on Amazon you have to have a G2 2.xlarge on demand it is $400/month, or $3478 one year term (that is for 1/4 of a G2 8.xlarge achine, thus you get one of its 4 Quadro K5000 4GB cards to yourself.) I could put 2 1060s in that machine for another $200 or so. This just beats AWS pricing in <4 months of use.

My expectation is that these 1060s will be good for two years, maybe even three.

Because our GPU tasks are low bandwidth and non-critical we can run them on our existing office internet. Our rent also includes power. So there are not too many additional costs over the bare machine costs.

jph00 3 days ago 1 reply      
To answer your question about the http://course.fast.ai MOOC: the course provides an AMI that has everything you need pre-installed. Just follow the directions in the setup video, which includes a script that sets up the instance for you.

To save around 80% (but slightly less convenient) there are two ways to use spot instances provided on http://forums.fast.ai that are largely automated and work well.

In part 2 of the course you'll learn how to set up your own server. As others have mentioned that's much better value if you're using deep learning somewhat regularly.

(I'm the founder/teacher of this course.)

rocketcity 3 days ago 2 replies      
I have been using it a good bit for some of the deep learning assignments on Siraj Raval's channel (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCWN3xxRkmTPmbKwht9FuE5A). I have had a really good experience so far. The trick is to find the AMI id for whichever region you want to use the image in and then just put in a spot request for your instance. I just checked the current going rate for a P2.XL in us-east-1 and it was at 0.2355 per hour.
Fripplebubby 3 days ago 0 replies      
I've been using this AMI for CNTK since the AMI was made available recently. It's been working well for me - they seem to update the AMI for big tagged releases of the libraries, and all the CUDA drivers are good to go out of the box. Personally I found it easier to use than Docker images, and both are easier than manual install.

With a spot request you can get a p2.xlarge for around $0.22/hr, which for me is sufficient for moocs and side projects, but for beefier instances the prices get high.

KaiserPro 3 days ago 0 replies      
I'm using them at $work. But they are expensive, but so is EC2.

Unless you are able to get a decent deal (far better than reserved instances) then for raw CPU/GPU power hosting your own is better. Its the whole package that makes AWS attractive. (RDS, S3, instant spinup)

Spot prices is a good place to start if you are doing batches. just make sure you checkpoint little and often.

However if you are on your own, with limited funds, Get a second hand workstation (dell or hp z620/600) they tend to have decent PSUs, loads of ram and decent support, and a couple of Geforces with more Vram. (Quadros you are paying for the double float performance and ram. transfer Bandwidth and speed are the same or slightly better on geforce class cards.)

minimaxir 3 days ago 0 replies      
A helpful on-topic note: Amazon has 1x K80 cloud GPU instances for $0.90/hr (not prorated), but very recently, Google announced GPU instances of the same caliber (https://cloud.google.com/compute/docs/gpus/add-gpus) for ~$0.75/hr (prorated to the minute), although Google Compute Engine requires configuring the GPU drivers first.
uberneo 3 days ago 1 reply      
If you are just getting started then https://www.floydhub.com/ is a good place as they provide initial 100 mins on GPU for free and then later on approx 50% cheaper than AWS
chaosmail 3 days ago 0 replies      
I used the ami with a p2.large for a deep learning project at university. In my opinion it was quite pricey and reading from disk storage was disappointingly slow (we had a 60gb dataset). What i found really great was using the same machine first as a t2.micro instance for setup and testing s3 connection, a m4.large for some preprocessing and finally the p2 for deep learning, all on the same AMI and SSD.
kshnell 3 days ago 2 replies      
www.paperspace.com/ml has much more affordable GPUs than AWS and a new Pascal card. There's a pre-configured Deep Learning template and a couple interesting features like a browser based terminal and desktop (you can still SSH if you prefer).
dhruvp 3 days ago 0 replies      
Hey OP! I've been using it extensively and it's definitely more than good enough for most tasks you'll be doing. If you're going this route, I'd highly recommend following the Keras' authors guide on how to set up the instance and connect to it with a jupyter notebook: https://blog.keras.io/running-jupyter-notebooks-on-gpu-on-aw.... This will boost your productivity a ton in the long run.

Best of luck!

ap46 3 days ago 0 replies      
Just get the GTX 1060 6GB variant & that should be enough RAM to run most models without suffering pagination.
chrischen 3 days ago 0 replies      
A pascal titan x is the best card for deep learning.

Even my gtx 1080 is faster, albeit with slightly less ram than the K80 or M60s available in the cloud.

A titan X would fix the ram issue though.

The most economical would probably be to colocate some titan X boxes. Not only cheaper, but more percormant than anything you can get from IaaS right now.

lekker 3 days ago 0 replies      
GPU hardware on Amazon is quite pricey. I would be careful since it can get out of hand rather quickly.
farhanhubble 3 days ago 0 replies      
I'm using p2.xlarge for Udacity Self Driving card nanodegree and Fast.AI assignments. It's super pricey as everyone has mentioned but I prefer using AWS to owning my own rig because I can download large datasets quickly.
hackpert 3 days ago 0 replies      
Yeah. I mostly end up using p2.xlarge spot instances, and they have worked fine for my jobs so far. Be sure to checkpoint often and you'll be okay with spot instances.
Baeocystin 3 days ago 0 replies      
No. CUDA-capable hardware is dirt cheap, and once you have your own, you can run experiments 24/7.
benmanns 3 days ago 1 reply      
I don't have experience with the Amazon AMIs for deep learning, but I'll give the tip that you can use spot instances with limited lifespans (x instance at $y price for at most z hours) to reduce cost and the risk you forget to shut something down.
gm-conspiracy 3 days ago 2 replies      
So, what is a recommended, buildable GPU rig (bang for buck)?

i7 w/ dual 1060 GPUs?

Ask HN: Building a side project that makes money. Where to start?
583 points by ihoys  4 days ago   246 comments top 78
mikekchar 4 days ago 10 replies      
This is going to sounds like crazy advice, but having worked on many side projects in my life the last thing that's going to let you down is your skills. What you really need is time. Let's say it takes you 400 hours to build your project -- in those 400 hours, you will build up enough skills to get you started (not nearly enough to be good at it, but good enough).

So you need to work consistently 1-2 hours a day on your side project. It really doesn't matter what you do. If you manage to get those 1-2 hours in, you will muddle through and accomplish something. If your goal is to make a side project and bring in a non-zero amount of money, this is achievable. Learn whatever you learn on that project and then do it again.

Personally, I would spend exactly $0 on your task because, like I said, the thing that will kill you in the end is likely to be time commitment. If you spend money, you will be out the money and your time. So start with time and see where it takes you.

As others have said, no need to get fancy. Just build the simplest thing that will get you started, using the simplest tools you can find.

nurettin 4 days ago 7 replies      
Not sure if I should share this, as it is a trivial and obvious thing to do. Recently I created a ramen-profitable on google play with currently a couple of thousand users.

The idea is to look for apps that have low ratings, high downloads and lots of recent comments, then make them better. You can use synonyms and the same niche category to increase visibility on google play. This is where the money is.

gsylvie 4 days ago 5 replies      
Here's what I did: at work I needed something. (A git commit graph). But the one I found was #1. buggy, and #2. too expensive. It wasn't my money, but I just couldn't allow my company to pay that much.

So I made my own, and fixed the bug: http://bit-booster.com/best.html

And then I realized I needed a rebase button on the pull-request screen... and so it continues to evolve.

Here's the thing: I've always known I'm a good maintenance programmer. I've always preferred working on existing software instead of making new software from scratch. And writing add-ons for Bitbucket is basically just another form of maintenance programming: reading Bitbucket's code, noticing its flaws and shortcomings, and fixing them.

Also, I love git, and I love going very deep into git (e.g., https://github.com/gsylvie/git-reverse.sh). So this is my dream job.

I've only made $7,000 USD after 1 year on this side project. But $1 of those dollars feels better than $10,000 from my day job.

superasn 4 days ago 4 replies      
I think you should start something very very small and forget about the money part for now. For me, my most successful project ideas came from problems that I faced during my own site launches.

Since you don't have much knowledge of FE development, I would suggest you keep things Simple Stupid and try to do as much as possible with HTML and jQuery. I have created really complex websites using just PHP and jQuery (sites that have made me 6 figures over time), plus you will learn the real nitty-gritty like DOM manipulation, CSS tricks, etc - which you will need to use anyway at least a few times regardless of the shiny JS framework.

I would highly recommend at this time you don't get sucked into the React, Node, Vue, etc. You will only end up wasting months without nothing to show for it (but maybe I'm just too old school).

Whatever time you have left after that, use it to learn online marketing. Learn about list building, SEO, Copywriting, outreach and affiliate marketing. Because that's how you turn your technology into actual money.

haser_au 4 days ago 4 replies      
Here's my suggestion. Walk down the road to shops in your area (small, family run businesses) and ask if they have a business problem they think IT can solve.

You'd be surprised how little some of these businesses know. I have previously;- Built a travel database in MS Access for a Travel Agent (long time ago)- Ordered and setup ADSL connections and email for a water tank manufacturer and a furniture store- Capture requirements, researched, ordered and installed an office (6 people) worth of IT kit for a not-for-profit (didn't charge them for this work).- Designed and implemented a roster management system for an IT helpdesk for a university.

There are heaps of opportunities. Just have to know where to look.

danielsamuels 4 days ago 1 reply      
I built Rocket League Replays[1], a website which analyses the replay files generated from matches played in Rocket League. I took my inspiration from GGTracker[2] which is essentially the same thing, but for StarCraft 2. I was looking through the replay files and noticed that there was some human readable content in them, so I wrote a parser[3] and built the site around it. Eventually I started a Patreon which allowed users to support the site in return for more advanced analysis. I get around $200/mo from that which covers the server costs etc, so I'm more than happy with that.

[1]: https://www.rocketleaguereplays.com/replays/

[2]: http://ggtracker.com/landing_tour

[3]: http://danielsamuels.co.uk/words/2015/07/27/rocket-league-re...

simonbarker87 4 days ago 3 replies      
My side projects always come from personal needs, in each case I built it to solve my own problem before turning it in to a full product (summaries below). If you are going in with the sole intention of making money then make sure you know that there is a need for what you want to make and that you can get your project in front of people.

You don't need to use the latest and greatest tech, in fact, I would urge you don't. For front end you can stick to simple JQuery interactions, bootstrap theme and you'll be fine, depending on the market sector you go for they may not even care about the design, so long as it's functional.

Summary of my project and where they came from:

http://www.oneqstn.com, before launching our company's product I put the question "Where would you expect to buy the Radfan?" on the shop page and then 5 options. I expanded this on its own dedicated domain and 5 years later it's still ticking along. Very popular in the middle east for some reason.

http://www.stockcontrollerapp.com, I manage in-house production of my company's hardware product and after moving from an Excel spreadsheet to a Python script I decided to make a stock management app for small factories. Has made my work life much easier and is more appropriate for me than Unleashed.

http://www.taptimerapp.com, I didn't like any of the timer apps that I had tried so made my own mainly for use in the gym. All the others had too small touch targets, hard to see at a distance/without glasses on, or stopped music playing when the timer finished so I made an app that addressed these.

yodon 4 days ago 3 replies      
If your goal is to make money, don't allow yourself to write a single line of code until you have talked to people not related to you (and not close friends with you), heard at least two of them independently describe facing the same business problem, and heard both of them say "yes, that would help!" (or better "yes, I would buy that!") in response to your proposed solution.

Finding a real business problem and a real solution is what matters. The tech is just an implementation detail you work out later.

qin 4 days ago 0 replies      
Baffled why nobody has mentioned https://www.indiehackers.com/ yet.

If you're looking for some inspiration from others who've built revenue-generating side projects and businesses, I'd start here.

joeyspn 4 days ago 2 replies      
Start looking for people that complements your skills! I've just created a "HN Side Project Partner Search" google stylesheet for people seeking team mates or help building their side projects:


IMO building a team (2 or 3) is the best way to go...

Hopefully you'll find the idea useful (ideally this should be a website but I'm testing the waters with a simple stylesheet...)

akanet 4 days ago 1 reply      
I gave a talk at Dropbox literally about how to start a small business without quitting your day job. A lot of people have told me it was helpful. You can watch it here: https://youtu.be/J8UwcyYT3z0.

A lot of my focus was boiling down what approaches could plausibly work and what pitfalls to avoid.

bikamonki 4 days ago 2 replies      
List down 25 products/services you consume regularly. For each, ask whether a better version could be done. Yes? Do it.

Here's one case: the local/popular site to search for used cars sucks. It is slow, hard to see/compare all options, silly reloads the page on each added filter, filled with outdated listings, flooded with ads, and pic slides take forever (all of this on my slow phone over a slow 3g which is how most visitors must be using it). Furthermore, car dealers (who post most listings) complain about service and price. So I built the proverbial mvp and put it in the hands of my marketing partner (you won't sell a line of code if you do not partner with a person/company dedicated to push your stuff) who's already working on a deal with the used car dealers association, pitching a novel business plan, hopefully making some passive income for both of us.

jjude 4 days ago 2 replies      
Start to teach. Create a course in udemy on what you know (data processing or management). If creating a video course overwhelms you, create a text based course. I'm using softcover to do that. You can check here: https://www.jjude.com/softcover-in-docker/

Creating a course can get you the momentum. You can start there and branch out to other things.

renegadesensei 4 days ago 0 replies      
Oh man I know this feel. I have been programming for startups for years and I have always had lots of ideas but never the mental commitment to finish anything.

I'm proud to say that very recently I did manage to complete a side project that I intend to launch in a week or so. It is a social site based on an idea I got from watching Japanese dramas.

What helped in my case was that my idea was really simple to build. I too have zero frontend / web design ability, so I just paid a guy from Craigslist to fix it up. Being able to bootstrap a finished product with a relatively small amount of time / money helps you get in that "closer" mentality instead of just playing around and never finishing.

I'd also suggest not worrying about making money at first. Just try to make a cool product or service. Money is a stressful and distracting motivator I find. Once you have something of value to offer and get some feedback from potential users, then you think more about pricing and marketing.

So in short, start small, don't be afraid to outsource and trade money for time, and don't worry about making a profit right away. That worked for me at least.

kureikain 4 days ago 0 replies      
I think the easiest thing is build what you need. So that if it failed to make money, you still have the tool you want.

I build https://noty.im that way, an monitoring tool that call me when my site is down.

Then I realized more thing is needed and I started to add more features and plan to publish launch soon.

I will say not to worry about scale and technical first. I learned it the hardway, Just get it out. No one will really care if it's broken or something doesn't owrk when you doesn't have lots of customer.

So to answer your questions:

1. Can you provide some ideas on where to start?Pick a technology stack you familiar with. Apply to Microsft BizSpark to take advantage of $150/monthly credit. Learn FE, it isn't that hard.

2. What are some simple things I can build by myself? Any idea?

I build `https://kolor.ml` in a sunday. It's very simple but I need it. So you can try to build some simple/small utility that helps people with their daily live such as: a tool to call people up in morning.

A tool to check if my site has expose some particular header such as `nginx`, `php version` etc and if found an old one or vulnerable one, alert.

Of course, lots of people already build those, but the point is just get started, along the way you will realize what you really want to build

jasonswett 4 days ago 1 reply      
This is what I believe to be the formula:1. Find a group of people who are interested in a subject.2. Find out what, related to that subject, they want to buy.3. Sell them that thing.

This is the approach I took with my book/videos at AngularOnRails.com, a "side project that makes money".

Another important thing is to surround yourself with people who have successfully done the thing you're trying to do.

I don't have much time right now but if you (or anybody) wants to talk about building side projects that make money, feel free to email me at jason@angularonrails.com. I'm not an expert but I know a hell of a lot more than I did 9 years ago when I started.

tmaly 4 days ago 0 replies      
I used my food side project as a way to learn new skills. I am still in the process of working on version 2.

The simplest way to start is to take a framework or system that has most of the basic parts ready for you to use.

Since you already know python, try to learn something like django and use Bootstrap with a CDN for your front end stuff.

I would recommend reading some of the posts on indiehackers.com to get an idea of how those people got started with an idea and how they got their first customers. Some do not even have any tech skills and just used wordpress or found someone to help them with the site.There is also a podcast for this that just got started that is excellent. The founder of indiehackers was a YC alumn named Courtland, he is a cool guy.

I chose to solve a problem that I personally encountered. If you cannot think of something, try picking something that you know requires lots of manual effort for some people. Then use some scripts from the book Running Lean to try to work out exactly what the problem is for those people.

Another great resource is OppsDaily which I love reading first thing in the morning. Cory sends out a problem someone has in a particular industry that needs to be solved. The criteria is that they must be willing to pay for it if someone responds. In many cases they will say how much they are willing to pay.

techbubble 4 days ago 0 replies      
Side projects that also do some public good might be a good avenue for you to consider. I built Walkstarter https://walkstarter.org a free walkathon fundraising platform for public schools as a side project. The experience is fantastic. I continue to develop my skills, e-meet new people, and the platform is on track to raise a very satisfying $1 million for schools.
gschier 4 days ago 1 reply      
As someone with many failed side projects, I can tell you that having a goal of making money is usually a bad thing. Like many other people have said, you can learn the skills. The hardest part of building a side project is finding the time and staying motivated for more than a few months.

So, pick something _you_ will use and, if you enjoy building/using it, so will others. Obviously think about ways to monetize it, but money should be more of a side-effect than a motivation.

I'm currently working on https://insomnia.rest, which makes around $800/mo right now. I started it as a side-project a couple years ago with no intention of making money. However, traffic grew organically and I eventually left my job to pursue it full-time.

In summary, find something you love to work on and let it consume you. If you do this, making $100/mo should come in no time. Have fun hacking!

patio11 4 days ago 1 reply      
What are some simple things I can build by myself?

You're already successful at selling enterprise services to at least one company in management and backend data processing. Have you considered selling management and backend data processing advise, perhaps delivered in the form of a PDF or series of videos? This is stupendously valuable to tech companies if you meaningfully improve on what they have already and would allow you to sell to people who have expense accounts tied to, to steal a friend's phrase, the economic engine of the planet.

You don't need a commandingly high bar of programming sophistication to sell books. There exist services that can do all the heavy lifting for you. If you prefer knocking together a site to sell your own books, it is essentially an hour to get the minimum thing to charge money and ~2 days to get something which could plausibly be the kernel of an ongoing business.

pygix 1 day ago 0 replies      
Can the below code be sold to raise money?

import requestsfrom bs4 import BeautifulSoup

url = "http://www.python.org"response = requests.get(url)

page = str(BeautifulSoup(response.content))

def getURL(page): """

 :param page: html of web page (here: Python home page) :return: urls in that page """ start_link = page.find("a href") if start_link == -1: return None, 0 start_quote = page.find('"', start_link) end_quote = page.find('"', start_quote + 1) url = page[start_quote + 1: end_quote] return url, end_quote
while True: url, n = getURL(page) page = page[n:] if url: print(url) else: break

fpgaminer 4 days ago 0 replies      
I researched startups on IndieHackers.com and wrote an article:


The summary, well, sums it up pretty well I think:

> Listen to your friends, coworkers, and clients. Find something painful they mentioned that you also have first hand experience with, or that youve needed at your job. Package it up so its easy to use. Build an MVP, get feedback, iterate. Charge more than you think you should. Listen to your customers. Launch on ProductHunt. Market the hell out of it! Use Content Marketing, reach out to communities, forums, friends, and businesses with cold calls/emails. If youve built something great, word of mouth will do its magic. You can do this in your spare time, and probably should.

averagewall 4 days ago 4 replies      
I've made a Windows GUI for a powerful command line open source application that was for Linux. It makes a few thousands dollars a month. It did take many years of part time programming along with user feedback to get to that stage though.

Desktop and Windows might seem like a dying market but that's what people use at work and those are the people who can pay for things.

cheez 4 days ago 2 replies      
Pick someone else's niche making money, tweak it to make it your own, implement. Rinse, repeat until you achieve success.
grow91 4 days ago 1 reply      
I started a side project last year and it's been a fantastic experience. It's an opportunity to "scratch an itch" that the day job can't provide (which for me is doing whatever I want).

I had some frontend dev skills but didn't have the backend chops, so I hired someone on Upwork. I'm pretty busy at work so getting someone else involved is key (If I was by myself I'm not sure I would have stuck with it).

It's been a year and the app is doing about $3k/mo in revenue.

j_s 4 days ago 0 replies      
Where should I start? [...] where to start?

Building an audience + market validation before building a sideproject are the top starting priority for "a side project that makes money".

Start by building an audience (this can be as simple as interacting with professionals on Twitter and/or their own blogs, or even contributing here on HN!). I won't be able to determine what people want without asking people, and I will save a lot of wasted time by building something that I can guarantee people already want to pay for! For example: I intend to walk around my neighborhood with a survey to gauge interest in localized "technology disaster prevention" (aka initial setup of PC & phone backups with verification and increasingly annoying reminders) as a service. The first sideproject is the hardest because initially the audience is smallest but then can be re-used.

I hesitated to post this because most developers have an "if you build it, they will come" mentality (and a tendency to focus on technology/implementation details that they enjoy) that even I personally have a hard time overcoming myself. However, if the criteria is making money, building an audience is the right first step. Once the bare-minimum MVP functions, marketing makes all the difference on the "that makes money" part (see my list of random books to buy elsewhere in this thread)... and there is no point over-engineering something I can't convince anyone to use!

I realize I'm going out on a limb a bit to say that market validation before each sideproject comes second... I know of one example of someone who has built an audience while publicly initiating sideprojects without thorough market validation (focusing on technology instead -- note that this determination is 100% my own armchair quarterbacking with the benefit of hindsight); this person's projects appear to be faltering because of poor market fit. However, it hasn't stopped many from buying into this person's brand / other projects, and that audience is now following the next project even though initially it appears to be trending toward the same mistake!

PS. As mentioned elsewhere I could shortcut market validation by tracking down commercial products (already being paid for) that are getting a lot of visibility and addressing issues raised in bad reviews; however even when going this route I will still benefit greatly by having an audience to market the replacement.

Edit: switched to first person to preach to myself to get off my butt and start doing something!

pseingatl 4 days ago 0 replies      
Look at oppsdaily.com. The developer posted here a while back. While there's no archive, there are daily postings concerning software needs. Some of the needs are unrelated to software, but most are. Could give you some ideas. (I have no relationship with the site or maker).
tonyedgecombe 4 days ago 0 replies      
"The fallacy is that I have so much information about day to day job in my head that I have lost all creative juice."

I wonder if more programming is going to bring back those creative juices, perhaps you should think about doing something away from the keyboard instead?

wordpressdev 4 days ago 0 replies      
You can start with what you already know and then build over it, or diversify, with time. The easiest way to monetize your knowledge to create a blog and link it up with social media (twitter, FB, youtube etc).

For example, you can write about management and backend data processing (what you do at work). This way, you don't have to learn something new to start your side project (except maybe how to manage a blog). The blog can be monetized via Ad networks like Adsense and Amazon affiliate program etc. As you grow, you may take in direct advertisers, sponsored content etc.

joelrunyon 4 days ago 1 reply      
Listen to http://sidehustleschool.com - it's a story every day about someone who did just this.
roycehaynes 4 days ago 1 reply      
Spend a few days identifying problems people pay for, particularly easy problems that you can build yourself. The key is that the solution has to be fairly easy to build since you're not comfortable full-stack. Once you've chose a solution that already makes money solving a problem, build the same solution but position it for either a niche market or make a better product than competitors.

I would at minimum leverage bootstrap or semantic ui as your ui. Otherwise, hire someone to do the web interface for you.

mendeza 4 days ago 0 replies      
Get some inspiration from indie hackers.com . I have been wanting to do something similar and there are tons of great advice and wisdom from solo developers building their own businesses.
rb808 4 days ago 0 replies      
I dont think any advice is any use unless we know what you want.

First thing is you should decide why you're doing it. Is it to make money, or have fun, or enhance your current mgmt skills or to learn to code in a whole new area?

Only once you've decided that, then questions like "I don't have any frontend dev skills. Where should I start?" and "Should I outsource the website development part?" are possible to answer.

chad_strategic 4 days ago 0 replies      
Before you do anything, I would recommend that you clear state a goal. Do you want to learn a new language? Do you want $100 a month in revenue. Do you want learn a little SEO?

Recently, I started on project for the sole purpose of learning more about nodejs and then in the second phase angular 2.

So a few months later I have a process that extracts data from amazon api and looks for price decreases in products. I learned quite a bit about nodejs and even about mysql database structures. So it was a good learning exercise.

Although I have accomplished my objective, I want to make money. This is the problem... Now I have learned what I needed, unfortunately I have learn more about seo, twitter api and facebook api to get users to visit my 200k webpages and make some money. So the side work winds up becoming a challenge and sometimes a burden, to continue to figure out how to reach your goal.

But when you reach your goal of $100 a month, then you will want more... So basically it never ends.


ryandrake 4 days ago 3 replies      
Surprised this has not been mentioned yet: Make sure your current employer is cool with side projects and moonlighting. Very few companies I've worked for are OK with it, even if done completely with personal equipment/time. You don't want to build the next Facebook in your free time and get fired over it or have your current employer claim IP ownership of it.
susi22 4 days ago 1 reply      
If you want a stable tech stack that'll stay the same for the new few years then check out Clojure + Clojurescipt. I'm still doing the same since I started a few years ago.

Regarding FE dev: I also have a technical Background (EE) and I hated any CSS (HTML isn't so bad). Though, flexbox is a life changer. It's actually enjoyable and I can get stuff done without spending hours on simple layout issues.

cyberphonze 4 days ago 1 reply      
Firstly as other have said build something you would use and that interests you. It doesn't have to make money if it adds value to you personally or professionally (technical knowledge and hard life lessons learnt). Secondly just ship it, personal projects can easily become obsessions, always needing one more thing. I did this and even though I hate parts of my apps design it is getting good feedback.

I recently had a quiet period in my freelance work so spent the time learning React Native amongst other things. I applied this to an idea I have had rattling around in my head for a point tracking app for people on Slimming World. I spent 4 weeks developing this and then shipped it to iOS. In under 2 weeks it has grown to almost 10,000 registered users, is number 4 in the UK Lifestyle Free Apps chart (ahead of Slimming World's own app) and has made enough ad revenue to cover the only costs I have had (App Store membership costs). It is never going to bring in big money but the lessons I have learnt are priceless.

0898 4 days ago 0 replies      
I started holding talks for independent agency owners (www.agencyhackers.co.uk). It brings in about 200 a month, from an 'agency roundtable' that I run. That's not much obviously it only just covers ConvertKit subscription and other SaaS software I need like Reply.io. But I think this is an audience I will be able to monetise with webinars, conferences etc.
daraosn 3 days ago 0 replies      
My advise: don't focus so much on how to build it, focus on how to grow it... REALLY!

I've done so many complex projects that at the end I couldn't sell, that's frustrating... please hear me: figure out first how to sell it (or at least get good traffic to a crappy wordpress site), then build a very crappy version and then improve it over time.

I read recently this, and I think is gold:https://www.blackhatworld.com/seo/making-money-online-it-all...

rezashirazian 4 days ago 0 replies      
As someone who has done countless side projects (check them out here: http://www.reza.codes) I suggest taking out "making money" as a variable and focus on things that interest you or something that stems from a personal need.

The satisfaction you get from these side projects will come from being able to finish them as opposed to try and make money from them. When you try to take on a side project with the goal of making money, you'll end up sinking way too much time in marketing and reaching out to possible customers as opposed to building something (which I find to be more fun and rewarding).

And the time you spend on trying to get people to sign up or even try your product doesn't have the same returns in satisfaction as building it. (my opinion of course)

amelius 4 days ago 4 replies      
If thousands of engineers are looking for something to build that others will pay for (but can't find it), then that tells me there is something fundamentally wrong with the way the economy works. Shouldn't it be the other way around? People who have a certain need express it, and engineers just pick one and work on it.
fuckemem 3 days ago 0 replies      
Here is an angle on this:

The goal is to stick to something until completion.

Phsychologically this is easier if you are enjoying it.

So choose a project and a tech stack you can really get into.

Scratch your own itch so that even if no one else uses it or buys it are least you can.

Look at the non-financial upsides, so that if you make zero or little money you can still feel proud: For example - learning new skills that might help you get a raise, learning marketing so that your next project is more likely to be successful, etc.

A word of warning - once you have spent some time on a side project the shine will wear off and it will feel like a job - and you have to find ways to keep yourself motivated when you could literally just go an watch TV instead on your time off.

simonebrunozzi 4 days ago 0 replies      
A little side project of mine is a chrome extension to be able to read (or write) summaries of articles on Hacker News.

It is in alpha stage right now, but I'm curious to hear your thoughts about it: https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/mnmn/kepcdifhbfjep...

Screenshot of how it looks like: https://github.com/simonebrunozzi/MNMN/blob/master/screensho...

(note: the "+" button is only available for users that are "editors". If you try it out, your user doesn't have that enabled by default).

19eightyfour 4 days ago 0 replies      
I guess you could focus on building a side project that doesn't need front end skills. Your aim is to get a bit of satisfaction and money and prove you can do something like this, right? Building something simple you can start on right now, starting from where you are right now.

Two ideas:

You could build some kind of email integration, or something delivered over, or using, email. The email processing itself would be mostly backend stuff, you could template the emails with Django or even Python triple quote strings.

Or you could build an API of some sort. The only front end really needed for an API company ( such as Stripe or whatever ), is documentation. You can write your docs on one of those doc hosting platforms ( readthedocs might be one? I don't know much about it now ).

For your side project, it's probably important to pick some things you like and start doing them, rather than trying to make certain up front which things are going to make money.

encoderer 4 days ago 0 replies      
As a software engineer who has built a side project that more or less pays my Bay Area mortgage here is my advice:

Find an idea that plays to your strengths and build something with a friend/coworker who is a better frontend developer. A good partner is invaluable, and with this you can already see how.

Also, charge on day one imo.

skdotdan 4 days ago 3 replies      
Instead of building an MVP and then trying to sell it, there are people who suggest:1-Think of an idea.2-Make a simple landing page with a mockup or something.3-Try to sell the product. And by selling the product I mean actually selling it (so people actually transferring you money). If you can achieve a given amount of sells in a given amount of time (important: set concrete goals with concrete timing), then you have validated your product.4-Build a first version of your product.5-Iterate.

Very simple to say, very difficult to do (I've never tried, but I would probably fail). But I think there would be ways to systematically apply steps 1-3 until you find the right product to work on.

Any thoughts?

JayeshSidhwani 4 days ago 1 reply      
You can work with freelance companies [like https://indiez.io/] This will mean that you can pair up with someone who has complementary skills + not worry about getting the projects yourself.
jenamety 4 days ago 0 replies      
"Start Small, Stay Small: A Developers guide to launching a startup" by Rob Walling.

really got me thinking about best ways (ie most time efficient + value) to vet an idea before lifting a finger building.

Razengan 4 days ago 0 replies      
> What are some simple things I can build by myself? Any ideas?

How about an iOS/Android game with optional micro-transactions?

In game development you can indulge and improve as many different skills as you want; graphics, sound, music, mathematics, networking, AI, UX design, character design, writing, storytelling, difficulty balancing, teaching..

An indie game project will give the freedom to be as creative as you want, and you get to enjoy your own product, but of course you don't have to arrive at a finished, marketable product to have fun building it.

helen842000 3 days ago 0 replies      
Instead of focusing on what you need to build, focus on what you want to fix.

Firstly do you have any code, processes, methods or scripts you have created as part of your job that saves your team time or money? Could you re-package them for sale?

I don't think that tech is a good starting point because your solution might not need to be software.

Opteron67 4 days ago 0 replies      
Lot of money is moving around but you need first take a look to other stuff and and activities rather than coding/refcatoring.

Try see other people activities and have a look how much they spend for basic services you could improve. If you suck at UX/UI, give some money to someone else who could do it for you

what matters is how fast you can release something, do not speed time in courses or fancy optimisations

Also do not focus on a side project alone, let create 3 or 4 project a year

Swizec 4 days ago 2 replies      
Step 1: "Pay Me" button

You'll be amazed by how many ideas you never have to waste time building, if you put up a paywall and nobody pays.

Tezos 4 days ago 1 reply      
Yup instead of starting a side project you should acquire some tezos blockchain token and build IOT project on top of it when the network launch

You dont need frontend skills

oldmancoyote 4 days ago 0 replies      
Before you get deeply into what you are going to sell, consider how you are going to market it. Marketing is a * * *! Successful marketing is harder than programming a product, much harder and more problematic. Just ask the folks trying to sell iOS apps when there are about 2 million apps on the market. Lining up a buyer for a custom product before you begin (as some here have suggested) sounds very attractive to me.
hkmurakami 4 days ago 0 replies      
Find customers first. Then build what they want to buy.
davidjnelson 4 days ago 1 reply      
A simple way to make $100+/month is writing short books, articles, and giving away things like software and putting adsense ads on the site.
dorait 4 days ago 1 reply      
Check out https://www.meetup.com/Code-for-San-Francisco-Civic-Hack-Nig...

Find one similar in your region. If it does not exist, start one.

Coming up with an idea for a product that is useful and that people will pay for is more difficult than actually implementing one.

reacweb 4 days ago 0 replies      
Build something that helps you in your everyday job. This can increase your motivation to improve it and keep working on it regularly. When it starts being useful, try to find another user to get feedback and increase feature. Before considering putting it in the wild, try to find a couple of hackers to anticipate potential security issues ;-)
joshfraser 4 days ago 0 replies      
My advice to all startups is that you should spend as much time thinking about how you are going to find & acquire customers as you do on your product. The same goes for cash-flow businesses & side-projects.

One approach is to decide which customers you can find the easiest and then ask them about their problems. Start there.

COil 4 days ago 0 replies      
You shouldn't start a side project for money but for something you like or believe in. Money will come after. (may be!)
llorensj28 4 days ago 0 replies      
Definitely build something you personally need. Try to see what you can do without building a product. For example, site for a service that could eventually become a product in the future, but allows you to validate early on and figure out a business model prior to touching any code.
amureki 3 days ago 0 replies      
I recently came up with next problem, I did the ungly POC (proof of concept), but don't know how to properly advertise it to find to get responses (except for HN, reddit and a couple of same-type resources).
retrac98 4 days ago 0 replies      
I wrote up my experiences with successfully shipping a side project here: https://medium.com/leaf-software/5-tips-for-actually-shippin...
richev 4 days ago 0 replies      
Build something that you yourself find useful (and that you can reasonably assume will be useful to other people too).
shanecleveland 4 days ago 0 replies      
Try to look at what you do at your day-job from an outsider's perspective. What are some little things that to you seem trivial and obvious, but to an outsider would seem complex and foreign. There's opportunities there to package your knowledge into a tool or resource.

Example: i

noir_lord 4 days ago 0 replies      
If you are weaker on the FE side from a project point of view keep your 'stack' really small, jQuery and Vue.js would get you a long way without really needing much front end knowledge, you can then gradually add in the other tools as you go (things like SASS/Less etc).
zdware 4 days ago 0 replies      
Anytime you start focusing on monetization of a side project, it stops being a side project and more of a "startup". Your mindset has to change around it entirely. You now have to consider marketing, your audience, and legality.
pmcpinto 4 days ago 0 replies      
What about a side project that isn't heavily related with tech? Which are your passions or hobbies outside work? Maybe one of them can lead you to a niche market.You can also share your professional knowledge. Do you like teaching or writing?
anothercomment 4 days ago 0 replies      
Another option might be looking into shopify's tutorials on drop shipping. https://www.shopify.com/guides/dropshipping
techaddict009 4 days ago 0 replies      
Find something simple and can solve the problem of few.Use bootstrap if you are not good at UI. It's simple yet powerful.

Regarding monetization you can use AdSense, donation button or charge monthly based on type of your product.

onion2k 4 days ago 0 replies      
If you want to make money from your side project (or startup, or whatever) figure out how you're going to get customers before you do anything else. If you can't do that then you won't make a dime.
pbreit 4 days ago 0 replies      
First, you need to turn your attitude around and be a lot more positive.

With respect to a project I'll let you in on a secret: if your service does something valuable, it doesn't have to look pretty.

borplk 4 days ago 0 replies      
Man my 2 cents is iterate in tiny tiny steps.

Whatever you do get it up there in an embarrassing state and keep making it better.

I wasted lots of time by wanting to do things right and so on.

Firegarden 4 days ago 0 replies      
How about we all band together and make one big side projecg. Pile on as many of us as we can and just keep evoloving it
pw 4 days ago 0 replies      
It requires a little bit of frontend work, but I've had good luck with content websites based on public data sets.
umen 1 day ago 0 replies      
make games , html/mobile
bartvk 4 days ago 1 reply      
> I have so much information about day to day job in my head that I have lost all creative juice

Although you ask great questions, this bit is what worries me. It doesn't feel good - it seems your job is taking too much energy from you. Have you thought about getting another, easier job?

SmellTheGlove 2 days ago 0 replies      
Great topic. We sound a lot alike. I work in a different sector, but I'm also now squarely in management and have been for a while, and my previous expertise was data engineering and infrastructure. Started with zero front end ability, and also not much Python either since I'm in the size of company and industry that still accomplishes most data work in SAS, and what it can't, Informatica and DataStage. Here's where I'm at, and so as to not bury the lede, I'm not making money yet but I found satisfaction in just spending some time each week on my projects -

1. If you know python, you can probably make a pretty natural jump to Flask. I didn't know Python, but I could program in a handful of other languages, so I figured I'd pick it up as a useful tool anyway. You may like this tutorial:


I'd say I really started learning when I got to the stage on authentication. The reason is that this tutorial implements OpenID, which isn't very common anymore, so I went off and implemented OAuth instead - heavily googling and scavenging, but ultimately having to piece together something that worked myself. I learned a lot that afternoon.

You could do this with any framework and there are tons of them. I chose Python and Flask over a Javascript-based framework because learning Python in parallel would be useful to me in data engineering, even though I don't write code for a living anymore.

2. As others have said, time commitment is the biggest issue. Figure out what you can give this, and scope appropriately.

3. I haven't done this because I'm too much of a completionist to pull the trigger, but get your MVP out there and build off of it. For me, I've decided I'm pretty happy just spending time on the project, even if no one else has seen it.

4. Bootstrap is my friend, it can be yours too. I have never been a strong visual person. I like words on a page. I have no eye for what makes a good visual and what doesn't, which has been my biggest developmental item when I moved into an executive role last year. All that said, Bootstrap is awesome and makes it a lot easier to build good looking websites. I started off here and built out a static website for an idea I'd had, and am now circling back to build the things I want to be dynamic in Flask.

5. There are a lot of choices out there. Unless you're developing bleeding edge, and I may get flamed for this, most of the choices really don't matter that much. I chose Python+Flask+Bootstrap because I liked each individually, it seemed like something I could work with, and NOT because I decided they were objectively better than Node, Angular, Express, React, or anything else that I haven't touched. I also sort of like that there isn't a new Python web framework each day, so diving into Flask seems like a more stable investment of my time. I'm sure there are drawbacks.

6. When it all starts to come together, the real, revenue generating idea might be to address pain points in your day job. My sector is insurance. I know a lot about certain operational functions. Eventually, I could solve some of those and build a business around it, I tell myself. You probably have some specialized domain knowledge as well. Consider that.

Good luck, and have fun. Like I said, I'm happier just for having taken on the challenge. If I ever make a dollar, that'd be good too, but less important than I initially thought.

Ask HN: What advice would you give yourself looking back on your journey?
38 points by good_vibes  2 days ago   32 comments top 21
pcunite 2 days ago 3 replies      
"Stop being so arrogant! You need people!", that would be one thing I would tell my past self, right after I smacked him upside the head.

Be humble, trust win, trust lose, trust again. Adapt to the market, don't think it'll adapt to you!

Also, the real meaning of life is to find your creator, not make millions of dollars. When they bury your sad fat rear end in the ground, all you've made goes to someone else. The afterlife is a part of life. Read Acts 2:38.

trcollinson 2 days ago 0 replies      
A few things.

* Don't necessarily trust, without thorough vetting, those who made money extremely quickly and claim to truly understand business. Being successful at business and understanding business can and often are very different achievements.

* You can entirely do it on your own, you don't need anyone else. [1]

* You cannot entirely do it on your own, you need a partner. [1]

* Maybe my greatest business insight: the longer it takes to find revenue to less likely you will be to find revenue or profitability.

[1] These are not mutually exclusive. For me, I needed to realize that I did not have to be trapped by a partner. And I also needed to realize I should not be trapped by doing things by myself. Picking the right partner is essential whether in business or just in life. I have been lucky to find them in both cases.

psyc 2 days ago 1 reply      
"Don't waste time. Don't abuse alcohol. You wouldn't shoot heroin, so for the same reasons, don't 'fall in love' either. You think of yourself as frugal, but you aren't even close. Save your money. Don't speculate on stocks. Buy the smallest house you can find. Meditate. Don't interact with people at all while emotional."
amerkhalid 2 days ago 1 reply      
Stop working on random side projects after work.

Do what you enjoy in the evenings.

And if you still want to do a side project then work on it and market it for maximum of an hour every day but for, at least, a year before starting a next project.

Mz 1 day ago 0 replies      
One of my college professors once said "I am the primitive of my way." It has taken me a long time to realize that people who are currently "successful" are not necessarily people I should try to follow in the footsteps of. It is better to try to stand on their shoulders and see farther than they could, so to speak.

They aren't where they are because everything they do is brilliant. A lot of what they do can be improved upon. Admiring their accomplishments is fine. Trying to understand their success is fine. But assuming that they are unequivocally better than me in every way is problematic and simply not true.

I wish I had gotten the memo sooner that other people in positions of influence or whatever don't necessarily know more than me or have better answers than I have. It is a lot more complicated than that.

taway_1212 2 days ago 0 replies      
Learn about yourself - what motivates you, what are your limits etc. This way you'll know if some goals are realistic or just pipe dreams.

To expand on that, let's say that you want to become an uber-programmer, like John Carmack. In his own words (paraphrasing), "everyone can do it, all resources are available online, you just need sit and do it". While this is technically true, the reality is that he seems to be extremely gifted when it comes to sustaining focus when working on abstract/technical tasks (while your average developer starts checking out after 4-5 hours). If you're like that and read about people like him, the conclusion is that you're like a short person trying to compete in NBA - technically feasible, but the odds are against you.

mythrwy 2 days ago 1 reply      
-People are more important than anything else but they come and go. They are still more important than anything else.

-Don't get lost in the weeds. It's easy to let small things that are immediately interesting take precedence over more important things.

-You won't be what you are now in 10 or 20 years. You'll think differently and have different abilities. Age comes before you know it. Remember this always and don't think you have it all figured out because you never do.

-Work hard but take it easy. Don't let stress over little shit destroy your long term productivity (see lost in the weeds section). It's a marathon not a sprint.

-Things change fast. Plan for the future but do so loosely because you are probably going to have to re-asses shortly enough.

-A little a day for 10 years is worth more than a lot for 1 year in terms of what it gets you. Saving, learning, all those thing. Don't plan on big windfalls.

mchan 2 days ago 0 replies      
Taking something personally - e.g. what happens to you, or how someone treats you - is a choice.Choose not to take everything personal, because things rarely are.
alltakendamned 2 days ago 0 replies      
Find the right people with who you enjoy working instead of assimilating corporate culture.

Stand up for your real values and stay true to them.

Don't just learn something, but publish, write, talk, demonstrate what you have learned. It helps build a public profile.

kamphey 2 days ago 0 replies      
Direction of energy is more important than anything else.

Who do you give energy and to what tasks? Make sure it's good.

Mushi_0 2 days ago 0 replies      
Whatever energy you have left to feel guilty about "not doing enough", reinvest it into letting go. Don't take being bored, in the moment, and content. We've unlearned these very basic things in this contemporary age.

Make a goal because it's a good exercise to start the journey. But just follow your heart after you start walking because if it was meaningful, you will find some way to incorporate it into your life.

Go slower. Enjoy the things you could only in university; there's no need to graduate earlier; you can work while going to school, but you cannot go back to thinking like a student after you've started working.

touchysubject 2 days ago 0 replies      
Well-roundedness is overrated. Focus focus focus.

Invest as early as possible. Don't throw away money on flashy material crap.

AnimalMuppet 2 days ago 0 replies      
Your kids should have priority over your side projects. Yes, you're going to get interrupted a lot. Welcome it rather than resenting it - you are privileged to be able to now spend your time on something more important.
tmaly 2 days ago 0 replies      
You don't always have to know the answer, just understand the question.
ParameterOne 2 days ago 0 replies      
It's ok to set impossible goals as long as you get going in that direction....like walking toward the horizon, you can always see farther the more you walk.
oldmancoyote 2 days ago 0 replies      
Few worthwhile efforts are ever successful on the first attempt. Failure is just another useful metric. It has nothing to do with guilt.
danschumann 1 day ago 0 replies      
Rather than looking forward to the next big thing, and trying to hype myself up over a random idea, look back: what are your greatest memories, successes, and create more of them.
nul_byte 2 days ago 0 replies      
"Just say no."
pasbesoin 1 day ago 0 replies      
Trust yourself.

Take care of your health.

If it's not working for you, walk away.

Have fun. If you're not having fun, change things.

Deal with fear and anger. They're useful, but only if you take positive action. Let them fester, and they will destroy you.

There are no guarantees.


taf2 2 days ago 0 replies      
dpeck 2 days ago 0 replies      
eat healthier.
Ask HN: What job scheduler do you use?
20 points by pmchorus  1 day ago   12 comments top 9
usernam3 1 day ago 0 replies      
For php laravel projects are using this service:

- https://github.com/cronboy/cronboy

- https://cronboy.com/

It doesn't fit needs of @pmchorus company, but is useful for simpler cases when you need something more efficient than cron and more accurate than queue delayed jobs. (Example: we use it for sending triggered email deliveries, where batch processing of letters using cron is not possible, because of amount of letters and cron schedule limit)

The idea is that you schedule job on specified time and cronboy invokes it via http and execute it on your server.


- Seconds accuracy of execution

- Statistics on invoked jobs

- Secure execution of your code

- Retrying if job failed

- Laravel friendly facade api

bigzen 1 day ago 0 replies      
Airflow might be primarily intended for workflows, but scheduling is fairly robust. But you also say that you want more than just simple Cron so I suggest taking another look.

What I really appreciate about Airflow is that it is self documenting. Anyone can logon and see the exact workflow, schedule of that workflow, the status of last few job runs and the python code that ran if they desire. Airflow documentation itself is good and getting better.

It can run a simple cron job but it also gives you room to build it out into much more. We use our Airflow scheduler to call simple API endpoints and then that same server does daily loads into our data warehouse.

Also 1.8 just dropped to stable and it is a huge improvement upon earlier versions.

benlovell 1 day ago 0 replies      
Sidekiq. It's a wonderful project and has formed the basis of so many projects I have worked with over the years ever since it's inception. It's also a great example of an OSS project with a healthy commercial offering.
pmchorus 18 hours ago 0 replies      
Any experience with http://www.schedulix.org/en ?
Xeago 1 day ago 1 reply      
Given that you mention Luigi, have a look at Styx. Currently in use at Spotify as a complement to the underlying job processing frameworks.


jacksonnic 1 day ago 1 reply      
https://www.nomadproject.io is awesome for scheduling both long running processes and time triggered jobs
batbomb 1 day ago 0 replies      
look at slurm and other things based on it. Slurm plus mesos + airflow will meet all your needs.
anilgulecha 1 day ago 0 replies      
Consider AWS lambda. It's not a monolithic system, but may work depending on your use-case.
Ask HN: How to improve your conversational abilities?
9 points by samblr  1 day ago   9 comments top 5
tedmiston 2 hours ago 0 replies      
#1 tip is to just stop thinking and not go into the conversation with preconceived notions. It's okay to have an idea about the points you want to make, but just slowing down and truly listening to what the other person is saying without precalculating your response while they're still talking is a rare gift these days. I always notice people who do this, and enjoy meetings with them most.
veddox 2 hours ago 0 replies      
1. Be interested in the person standing opposite you, show real empathy.

2. Listen to what they say.

3. Try to understand why they say what they say; if necessary, ask questions.

4. If you ask questions, ask open-ended questions. ("Why do you say that?" is a great one to start with.)

5. Watch people whom you know from experience to be good conversationalists, emulate them.

6. Practice :-)

tabeth 23 hours ago 1 reply      
Books, blogs and YouTube are useless IMO.

There's one solution.


- Talk to your coworkers

- Attempt to lead conversations

- Listen

- Do not interrupt others

- Watch

There's no alternative that will result in such a tight feedback loop. Try to do this as frequently as possible and your conversational skills will improve, guaranteed.

ParameterOne 21 hours ago 0 replies      
Dale Carnegie: Book, How to win friends and influence people.

And always ask open-ended questions, the person asking the questions will control the direction of the conversation.

Mz 22 hours ago 2 replies      
Participate more on Hacker News than you currently do. Online conversation is usually vastly better than "water cooler" conversation IRL where people typically say nothing of real importance.

You could also try pursuing ride sharing arrangements. That can foster good conversation as well, while you are both stuck in the same vehicle, heading to or from work.

Ask HN: What Is the Google 'Software Engineer, Machine Learning' Interview Like?
156 points by neuralFatigue  3 days ago   78 comments top 13
geofft 3 days ago 2 replies      
I attended a Google interview coaching session yesterday (if you get in touch with a recruiter, they'll send you an link to RSVP for one in session, and I think they're all recorded). It was led by, if I remember correctly, a fairly senior manager whose team was working on machine learning for recruiting, so he had some fairly specific experience with this.

Two things he mentioned that stand out for your question: first, Google attempts to hire generalists, or at least "fungible specialists". Three of your five SE interviews will be general CS algorithms questions; the other two are likely to be specialized if you're interviewing for a specialized role. I don't think that it's likely to be different from the other "Software Engineer, Foo" interviews (e.g., "Software Engineer, Front End" or "Software Engineer, Mobile"), where at least one of the remaining two interviews will probably be specific to Foo.

Second, he specifically complained about people who show up and say "I want to do machine learning" and then say they have no machine learning experience / background. There are apparently a very small number of teams who will train a bright person how to do ML, but in general you're expected to have some background with it.

This seems like the sort of thing you should ask your recruiter (after getting in touch with one) and perhaps ask at a coaching session, if there's one in your city. I am a little genuinely confused that they seem to think their interviews need a coaching session, but hey, at least it's progress.

onewland 3 days ago 2 replies      
Not an employee, but I'm pretty sure that the interview is the same for all engineering roles, unless you're very senior/specialized. I doubt that your interviewers will even know that you're up for a ML position specifically.
eggie5 3 days ago 1 reply      
I interviewed at all the big bay companies (and the seattle one) for machine learning earlier this year and few of the questions were classical machine learning questions. Most of the questions were programming an computation.
cableshaft 3 days ago 1 reply      
They put a bunch of machines in a room and ask you to stand in front of them and teach them something on the whiteboard.

So pretty much no difference from a standard Google interview.

aparvinash 3 days ago 0 replies      
I might be wrong but

3 General White board coding rounds by SWEs(with some emphasis on data processing appropriate data structures, computations etc)

1 or 2 rounds specific to machine learning with some one working in that research area ( 1 or 2 based on the level you are coming in probably)

But as someone in the comments thread pointed out recruiter would be the best source

throwaway9475 3 days ago 1 reply      
They ask you to reverse a linked list then politely ask if you have any questions when you don't do it to their liking.
praneshp 3 days ago 1 reply      
From what I've seen with friends, the recruiter is very helpful pre-interview, so might make sense to ask them.
bitL 3 days ago 0 replies      
You get one TopCoder problem and the automated DeepCoder robot with q=0 is your first opponent. Once you beat it, they increase q to 1. You have 6 rounds with 1 hour lunch break where they tweak DeepCoder to respond to your thinking better. Once you beat all DeepCoder levels, they hire you and your task is to improve DeepCoder so that it beats you every single time.
acconrad 3 days ago 0 replies      
Given they've acquired Kaggle, I would imagine if you can solve Kaggle questions you're getting a solid preview of the ML-specific questions they might ask you in addition to the standard data structure/algo and unix questions they'll ask you.
kelvin0 3 days ago 1 reply      
The ideal scenario:

They give you an assignment to complete at your pace for a few days, and review your solutions and implementation with a group of your (future?) peers. This takes the form a small Q&A presentation and allows to assess your technical and communication skills.

Then, you spend another week as a paid 'freelancer' to do some actual work and interact with your team. At the end of the week you are assessed by your peers and are presented with an offer, in case all went 'well'.

The reality is certainly much grimmer (to me anyways).

Good luck!

jlarocco 3 days ago 2 replies      
Why don't you just ask them?
Pica_soO 3 days ago 1 reply      
We lost control(reliability of the Algo, understand-ability of the Algo, reproduce-ability of the Algo) on the P in Input Processing Output. Can you write Data filters and Automated Tests to Abstract that problem away?
brianwawok 3 days ago 1 reply      
i would hope it has a few questions about Machine Learning.
Ask HN: First time in 4 years I lost interest working for startup. What do I do?
44 points by denverdevguy  13 hours ago   44 comments top 28
twobyfour 7 hours ago 1 reply      
Most people in the world do not in fact feel a burning connection with the mission of the company they work for.

That's really ok.

Now you've figured out what you really do care about (or at least a piece of it) - spending time with the people you love. In many ways that's a far healthier perspective to have on life.

So keep going to work and doing your job because, hey, you've got to pay the rent. If the only reason you're at this particular job is the company's mission, then start looking around for a place that pays more or has a better culture, or where you can learn more interesting things.

And in the meantime, keep doing a good job simply because you take pride in your work, and most hiring managers outside the weird "have to be passionate" startup scene will be glad to hire you.

dougmwne 5 hours ago 0 replies      
I think you could still have burnout. You don't have to be cranking 80 hours weeks to get it. I've seen people burned out with fairly easy, low stress jobs. Burnout can come from overwork, underwork, the wrong work, the wrong mission, the wrong co-workers or management. The critical element is always time. The first thing to go is the excitement.

Not to knock TV, but it is an escape. I know someone who used to get jealous of rocks(they get to just lay there). If you heal the burnout, you should start to feel your passions and motivations come back.

taway_1212 8 hours ago 1 reply      
> During a meeting last week I realized: I don't care about our product or it's mission anymore.

I've reached that stage at 23, after about a year into my first job. Since then, I've been working for the money.

sb8244 5 hours ago 0 replies      
This is something I'm very sensitive to because I don't want to find myself in the same situation for long. I have felt it over time, but I've personally found success in:

Reflecting on why I first got into software development (SaaS for me). Am I still achieving those things? If not, I probably won't enjoy what I'm doing.

I have seen teams become more disengaged when everything comes top down, even if the top is a team lead. I have found success in empowering myself and others to look for things that they believe are important and work that into their schedule. I would never hold this against anyone as long as they don't go totally rouge.

Tldr;Reflect on yourself, your goals, and where you want to be. Are you there or not? If not, it doesn't mean your job is necessarily at fault. Sometimes the only person who will get you out of a rut is you.

CyberFonic 8 hours ago 0 replies      
I agree with other HNers who are suggesting taking a break. It really does look like burn-out.

You could look at how you viewed the startup when you joined. What excited you, how you felt that you were contributing to the vision. Then look at how and when that changed. Did the management change? Were a couple of unrealistic deadlines missed? After 4 years have you had a salary increase? Is it the still the same product or have there been pivots? Has the market not materialised? How about further investment? In 4 years things have probably changed and maybe you have ignored the signs that are now troubling you subconsciously.

partisan 7 hours ago 0 replies      
After 4 years, I have to imagine your startup has matured to the point where you are no longer feeling like you can make a significant impact. It's diminishing returns for your cognitive output from here on out unless the company has a reason to invest in a large R&D project and you get to work on it.

You can either come to terms with working on problems that motivate you sufficiently or you can hit the road and find your happiness elsewhere.

TylerJewell 3 hours ago 0 replies      
I am founder / CEO of Codenvy, project lead for Eclipse Che, and also sit on the board of directors for WSO2, Sauce Labs, Eclipse Foundation, and Shift Mobility. My career in technology has spanned 25 years. I still code and am a partner in a venture capital company (Toba Capital) along with doing angel investments periodically. I love the challenging mashup of being very technical with building businesses / products / markets.

I have felt burn out three times in my career. In each case, I had to disassociate myself from obligations for an indeterminate amount of time. It was essentially a responsibility "detox". When faced with the prospects of no obligations ... which ultimately lead to the prospect of utter boredom ... did new opportunities and enthusiasm to pursue them materialize.

The last phase of burn out allowed me to quit Oracle for which I was an exec for a (very) short tenure, begin foolishly day trading, and ultimately lead me to investing and market opportunities that lead to the creation of Codenvy in 2012.

Burn out caused Codenvy to exist.

dsg42 5 hours ago 1 reply      
This may be redundant advice based on what you've already done, but I would suggest you go on a 2+ week vacation. It's often easy, after being at a startup for a while, to not really feel like you can actually unplug completely, and it sounds like it's time for you to do that. A couple weeks away from everything will give you clarity on the situation, and you'll come back either refreshed and ready to work, or clear on the fact that you need a new job.
Sancty 4 hours ago 0 replies      
This is something I'm currently working through as well. As one of the founder, it's not a situation where I can (or would) get up and go. For me there's obviously a passion for what we do and what we've accomplished. On the other hand, it feels like the cartoon where the carrot is being dangled in front of the horse.

Lately, I've been doing a lot more meditation. I'm trying to be as regular as possible with (at least 2x a day). It's helped quite a bit with feeling overwhelmed which is the biggest contributor to that sense of apathy.

The other thing I've been doing is working on a framework for creating a good work/life balance. As a side project, I'm trying to build a small desktop app that makes it easy to follow the framework. Ideally though, the goal is be presence when I'm working and focus wholly on that work. When I'm not "at work" to turn that off. Not having that off switch is something that seriously exhausts me.

edimaudo 6 hours ago 0 replies      
You can deal with it in many ways. First, you need to ask yourself a few question. Why did the thought occur to you? Where you having a shitty weak, did you have a bad day or is the product genuinely bad? When you answer this your next steps should be talking to someone higher up to voice your concerns assuming there is something wrong with the product. If it is not the product then take some time off as you sound stressed. Don't do any ounce of office work just do something fun.
jostylr 7 hours ago 1 reply      
Work for the money while exploring and enjoying boredom. Save lots of money, position yourself (or keep positioned) to get good recommendations from your team. Don't burn bridges.

If you don't eventually get inspired to do something else, take a long break, possibly quitting, and embrace the emptiness even more. Eventually, something should catch your heart.

Be open to totally new directions.

Also, 4 years is typically the time to start moving on from a company that you are not going to stay for a long, long time.

user5994461 5 hours ago 0 replies      
> I don't care about our product or it's mission anymore. I would rather be watching TV with my girlfriend or literally doing anything else.

> But lately I just don't give a shit about bugs or features we're building.

Welcome to the world of adults.

We work to live, we don't live to work ;)

It's alright, you can have a job in the day and be with your girlfriend the rest of the time.

tmaly 6 hours ago 0 replies      
While you are still there, reframe your thoughts. Is there some interesting CS problem you can solve within the context of that startup that would be applicable to other industries?

Do they allow open source? If they do you could always start something that benefits them but under your own git account. It benefits you in terms of marketing yourself and your skills.

hamstercat 5 hours ago 0 replies      
Taking a break always helped me when I was in lull. That being said, after 4 years I think your feelings are perfectly normal.

If being fully engaged at work is something you need to be happy, then maybe a change is in order. Otherwise, as you said you're not doing insane amounts of overtime, simply having a job that you don't hate and pays the bills might be enough. Ultimately you have to ask yourself what you want from your job.

orschiro 6 hours ago 0 replies      
There is nothing wrong with quitting, relaxing and even doing nothing. It is only in the perception of society that these activities are of lesser importance but they do not have to be yours.
WalterSear 13 hours ago 1 reply      
It's burnout.

Feeling the same pain with you right now.

petters 8 hours ago 0 replies      
I think it is quite common to want to spend time with your significant other instead of working. To call that burned out is to exaggerate the problem.

I think you should apply to other jobs, just to see what your options are.

reiderrider 5 hours ago 0 replies      
Have this tough conversation with the founder. You may provide insight (maybe the mission needs tweaking). It sounds like a lose/lose for you and the company now. See if the conversation can create a win/win or look for another job.
divbit 4 hours ago 0 replies      
If you work 40 hours a week, it's not putting you at risk, and you are getting a reasonable salary, that sounds pretty decent to me (just some words of encouragement) :)
salesguy222 7 hours ago 1 reply      
Make enough money that you can invest most of it into a relatively safe trading strategy.

Once that investment allows you to withdraw 1-2k per month, quit your job.

You will now be paid enough money to fulfill the costs of sitting at home and watching TV with your girlfriend indefinitely.

No need to worry about working, products, bugs, etc :)

DrNuke 6 hours ago 0 replies      
Find an industry you care (or like at least) and go vertical, that is to say use your skills for that field. You will still have bad days at office, but faith losing more probably not.
thewhitetulip 13 hours ago 0 replies      
I'd say take a break from work, go travel somewhere with your gf, come back and see how you feel.

If you still feel the same, then stop working at a startup and work at some established company.

Good luck!

douche 7 hours ago 1 reply      
This is normal. You just show up, do what you need to do for your 40 hours, collect your paychecks, and go home to do what you actually want to do. Find meaning outside of work. At the same time, you need to have the discipline to keep doing a good job at work - just don't expect it to be an all-consuming, fulfilling purpose of your life.

The dirty secret is that most of us are building software that doesn't really need to exist. It's hard to stay super-passionate about it, especially as you get older and more experienced.

pards 7 hours ago 0 replies      
Find a company that is interesting to you and reach out to them directly to see if they'd be interested in bringing you on board.
dkarapetyan 12 hours ago 0 replies      
Take a break and if you still don't care find something else. Pretty simple really.
Elect2 12 hours ago 1 reply      
>I don't care about our product or it's mission anymore.


Nelson69 4 hours ago 0 replies      
How old are you and do you need to "believe?"

When I was younger, I couldn't really push hard and work really hard unless I believed in the mission. I had to have that passion fuel to do it. It's fun, it feels good when it's there, it's like being in love in a way. And I'd do 'heroic' stuff because of it. I've found, personally, that that passion fuel is more like adrenaline than actual fuel though. It tends to dry up after a while; I think this is do to life changes, if you're in a relationship or having a child or something like that, those things just dramatically outweigh "building some app" or learning some new tech. At this point in my life (married with a couple kids) I get buzzed about startup opportunities and stuff, but I don't think there is any code that will come close to what my family brings me in terms of that passion. You've made it 4 years so I'd guess you're not running on passion alone.

For a while, I tried to be really unemotional about work, I just wanted to be a professional and do that job. Honestly, I can do this, I know some people cannot. I enjoy making software, regardless of the project I can usually find aspects to enjoy and just enjoy the craft. You really don't need to give a shit to fix some bugs, at least I don't, they pay me and I do the work. That too tends to result in my relative unhappiness after a while; I feel like certain creative aspects aren't being honored if I'm just doing the job; also when the rest of my life is in disorder it's more difficult to find any satisfaction in just being a professional.

It's going to sound cliche but it's really all about balance, at least for me it is. I try to place the passion more directly in the craft and technology. I'm passionate about building great teams. I'm passionate about working with those teams as a team, I really love seeing others grow. I like my current company's mission and it's something I can get really passionate about but I try not to get too bent about the details and specifics. Something else which in ways feels bad to say and it took me a while to really admit it: I'm kind of passionate about financial successes, my company is making money and that cures a lot of the little things for me. I've worked on my priorities a lot and I know that I'd rather be part of something that we build in to success rather than having my product vision completely realized and fail. Boot strapping a start up can be remarkably emotional, you work close with people, you get close, product passions rather than craft passions can make it really difficult. You want some passion and you want to be a pro at the same time and you want to balance those things and it's probably a life long learning exercise to continually tweak them.

Take a real vacation, turn off your phones and devices, spend some time away from it all and then look at it again.

jjt-yn_t 7 hours ago 0 replies      
From bitter experience, TV engrosses one such that it is in effect one's primary HR, lead tech, and union representative rolled into one, each with double pay for being remote not local by the opposite-side-of-the-nation CEO. You may be misled into not devoting your time away from the workplace into bringing in new features you have crafted while the TV was off, into the morning re-introduction of you to your coworkers. [ not to be critical, but advising not to make the mistake I seem to have made in TV usage ]
'When will I use Pythagoras (or Ratios) in real life?'
6 points by ICRqVNmDrU8FDi  1 day ago   4 comments top 3
jefecoon 23 hours ago 0 replies      
Ask your student(s) to look at a map, or better yet, open up Google Maps and flip to 'Earth' view.

All that satellite imagery? Every single pixel, from every single satellite fly-over / observation, all interpreted / post-processed / calculated into actual meaningful data via Pythagorean theorem.

E.g. every data point processed for "incident angle" of the observation platform above parcel/pixel observed. Basics @



Math FTW.

<< edit to format >>

oblib 1 day ago 1 reply      
I'll offer this life experience:

I got into a debate with some fellow backpackers a couple years ago about how to measure total distance traveled when hiking in mountainous areas. They all said they could measure the total distance using the Pythagoras theorem but they were only measuring the distances of the angled sides of a triangle, not both the forward and up/down, which you have to traverse in the real world.

When I explained that they were only measuring the distance in a 2D world but since we live in a 3D world we need to measure both forward and up and down to get total distance traveled they were all in agreement that I couldn't be more wrong.

When I tried pointing out that this is an exercise in the physics of spatial dimensions (3D), and not a 2D flat plane, they couldn't (or more aptly put, refused) to grasp the difference.

I think this approach might be another good way to illustrate using it because while they all understood how it worked they didn't have a clue about when to apply it, which your example perfectly illustrates.

wmoser 1 day ago 0 replies      
They are also used quite a lot in building trades or wood working or machining. Pitch of roofs are often given as a ratio, tapers on machinery shafts, making sure your pipes have sufficient slope to drain properly. Another construction example would be how long of a board do you need for the stringers (the long boards that are notched for the stairs if it has to go up 10ft over a fifteen foot distance, etc. whether they might end up the designer or the constructor of things it's probably one of the more practical math concepts.
Ask HN: How do you moderate a subreddit?
16 points by debt  2 days ago   3 comments top 3
popey456963 2 days ago 0 replies      
My moderating day generally goes as follows:

- Look at the mod queue, replying to any mod mail we've received and any posts that have been automatically removed by our AutoModerator script.

- Have a peak at the new posts, on any one day my sub-reddits only get a couple of hundred, so it takes a couple of minutes for a cursory glance.

- List all reported messages and see whether they're acceptable.

Then, because most of the sub-reddits I'm currently contributing to are about projects I'm working on, I generally answer any questions people have or problems they're facing.

However, this is just for me. It really truly depends on the type of sub-reddit you're looking to moderate as to what work you're required to do.

rm999 2 days ago 0 replies      
I founded and am the sole moderator of r/apachespark. That one's easy because it's a well-behaving crowd and the purpose of the subreddit is obvious. The only real things I do is remove spam/unrelated material and tag big releases as announcements.

More generally, I think the moderators' main job is to set the mission/rules of the subreddit, and enforce them. Subreddits with weak enforcement rarely thrive as they devolve into the least common denominator.

dangrossman 2 days ago 0 replies      
Remove spam and warn people that are behaving exceptionally poorly. I only moderate very small subreddits, but that's all I do, aside from playing with the design for fun.
Ask HN: What medical datasets do you need?
219 points by danicgross  4 days ago   131 comments top 53
throwaway4103 4 days ago 3 replies      
Please oh please, Chronic Fatigue Syndrome. The potential for ML is absolutely huge. Some people have already collected or are working to collect genetic and other data on a large scale [1] [2] [3], so it does exist.

CFS is interesting because:

a) Patients' symptoms appear to fluctuate "randomly" but are actually typically a complex function of genetics, blood markers, exercise, diet, medication and other factors.

b) There is considerable low-hanging fruit for pattern recognition, since despite the prevalence of the disease almost nobody has done serious ML work in this space.

c) Huge market opportunity - prevalence is comparable to HIV, and specialists often cite CFS as causing more disability [4] [5].

[1] http://simmaronresearch.com/

[2] http://www.nova.edu/nim/research/mecfs-genes.html

[3] https://med.stanford.edu/chronicfatiguesyndrome.html

[4] https://consults.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/10/15/readers-ask-a-...

[5] Dr. Daniel Peterson (Introduction to Research and Clinical Conference, Fort Lauderdale, Florida, October 1994; published in JCFS 1995:1:3-4:123-125)

Entangled 4 days ago 5 replies      
Dermatology, eye conditions, blood cells, tissue, viruses, urine, saliva, everything that can allow an app to give you a first diagnose before heading to the doctor.

I foresee in less than ten years we will have a doctor in our pockets. No, it won't cure us and it won't replace a doctor, but it will give us all the information we need to have a 99% certainty of our condition.


Second batch for animals and their conditions.

Third batch, agriculture. Take a pic of a plant and tell me all the info, fertilizers, cultivation, etc, bonus for pest id and treatment.

Pocket computers should be able to diagnose every living creature.

abetusk 4 days ago 1 reply      
FYI, as far as I know, the Harvard Personal Genome Project is one of the only publicly available resources that has whole genome (and other) data along with health record information available for free use (CC0 licensed) [1]. Open Humans [2] and OpenSNP [3] have data along with various degrees of health record and phenotype information as well.

[1] http://www.personalgenomes.org/

[2] https://www.openhumans.org/

[3] https://opensnp.org/

siculars 4 days ago 3 replies      
Any tagged data sets like CCD's with SNOMED/LOINC encoding. Basically anything that is serialized in HL7/FHIR for a large enough population longitudinally. It's the time oriented set of population data for a region, like a major health center over a period of five to ten years or better.
ipunchghosts 4 days ago 0 replies      
IBS data. Since DoD threw money at this problem after the Iraq war, we've discovered that IBS occurs in about 1 in 10 who have had food poisoning. This is the biggest advancement made in the field in decades. We are close to putting this to bed but just need more data.
olegkikin 4 days ago 2 replies      
Costs of all the procedures for each hospital. Whatever people get charged.
TuringNYC 4 days ago 1 reply      
I wont comment on what, but on how:

- If the datasets are imaging, there should be enough per class for typical ML techniques. Otherwise you just get people over-fitting models on sets of 500 images and the illusion of progress.

- I'm quite happy with the Kaggle datasets generally, but why do others make consuming data so difficult. Heck, if we've already received the data, lets just take it the last mile and make it consumable with obvious labeling, standard formats, etc. This is such a pet peeve of mine that -- if you need help taking datasets to the last mile -- i'm volunteering, ask me to help make it presentable. Ideally it should be pull-able via curl/etc, unzippable and be able to get into a pipeline w/o manual effort.

ska 4 days ago 0 replies      
An awful lot of medical data is complex.

Here is what you really want: Large amounts of curated/quality controlled data with ground truth that you can aggregate & share. Preferably with multiple studies and time points and/or followup. That is stated in rough order of difficulty to acquire.

Here is what you typically get fed into an learning pipeline: 1-2 orders of magnitude too small, with all kinds of noise, and no truth data(i.e. at best a bad proxy).

Hand-waving about unsupervised learning won't solve many of the really difficult problems (although it has uses, obviously). Neither will hand-waving about transfer learning. In some areas most retrospective data sets will never be really available because of consenting issues. QA is hard - the sheer variability of clinical systems in the field, not to mention protocol and practice differences, is often astonishing.

So where does that leave us? To make a real dent fast I suspect you need to focus on data availability, not problem. Ask the question:

What are the fastest path(s) to collecting large volumes of clinically representative data with some QA in place, consented for the ways we want to use it, and with real clinical truth or a decent proxy we can get at in an automated or semi-automated fashion? 1000 Bonus points if real outcome data will be available in future.

kfor 4 days ago 0 replies      
For those interested in global health, we've tried to collate as much data as possible at http://ghdx.healthdata.org/ (disclosure: I'm the director of data science at IHME, which hosts this).

Note that most of this data is population level epidemiologic and administrative stuff, not the detailed biomedical measurements I see most people requesting - but I promise you there's some really interesting things that can be done with it nonetheless!

sperant 4 days ago 0 replies      
I'm the cofounder of a startup building a new EHR to help solve this problem (we just applied to YCS17).

We will use NLP and AI to provide structured data from unstructured medical data (encounter notes, etc...) stored in the EHR for both analysis and integration. For example, one of our partners right now wants to integrate directly into our EHR in order to run computer vision algorithms on top of uploaded eye exam images in order to help diagnose eye diseases. We give them access to the eye image and other patient data, including the encounter, diagnoses, etc. After they have trained their algorithms, we then allow them to hook directly into the encounter workflow to send alerts live to the doctors during the appointment. We want to be a platform to help other startups and researchers connect with medical data both for analysis and also to help make a meaningful impact directly to doctors' workflows and patient care.

We would love to help out and/or learn about any use-cases that others might have requiring medical data. If you would like medical data or would want to integrate directly into a doctors' workflow in their EHRs based on NLP/AI hooks, we would love to hear from you. You can reach out to me directly at ginn@stanford.edu

PostOnce 4 days ago 1 reply      
Anonymized patient records, preferrably with information about the doctor performing the diagnosis as well. I've only been able to find small datasets of some tens of thousands of records, I would like tens of millions. You can't learn much from what amounts to one small town's medical records, in terms of finding accurate diagnoses, or identify places and situations that result in better doctors.
snovv_crash 4 days ago 1 reply      
Health and doctor visit information which has been cross-correlated with food purchases and exercise type and frequency.

Right now we have no way of determining which interactions lead to which conditions, so we generalise based on the 3 inputs independently, when in reality it is perfectly normal to eat more when doing lots of exercise, or need doctor visits when doing exercise with inadequate nutrition.

ransom1538 4 days ago 3 replies      
OP: You need more doctor data.

Given you have surgeon [x] what are odds of a successful surgery with [x]. THIS is the guarded secret -- yet the most valuable.

If you have medical data (or want to be a cofounder) please email me :ransom1538 at gmail.com -- a prototype: https://www.opendoctor.io to find out data to this very question.

llccbb 4 days ago 0 replies      
Blood glucose levels as time series from continuous glucose monitors with additional tagged data like food intake, exercise, and sleep. Each record needs the obvious human-data like sex, age, weight, nationality/ethnicity, type 1 or type 2 diabetes.
cmdrfred 4 days ago 0 replies      
This is a big ask and I'm not working in AI but I'd like a comprehensive as possible list of treatments offered at facilities with pricing. I'd build a website that looks up the treatment you require and compares the estimated cost of travel to each location that offers it (keeping in mind exchange rates) to find the lowest total price. This data should be global to be as effective as possible.

It could even offer suggestions like "Spend $200 more and recover on a island paradise!"

If globalism is good for low wage workers it certainly should be good for the medical profession.

tathougies 4 days ago 0 replies      
Hormone problems are extremely difficult to tease out.

In my opinion, large datasets testing wide spectrums of hormones in a large population, tagged with any diagnosed endocrinological condition would be extremely valuable. I bet with this information, we could learn a lot without conducting actual physical studies, by simply sectioning the data appropriately.

I'm not a doctor though, so I don't know exactly what would need to be recorded, but having dealt with bizarre endocrine disorders that doctors don't really have any answers to, my gut feeling is that such a data set would be incredibly useful.

surgeryres 4 days ago 0 replies      
Trauma is the leading cause of mortality for people under 40 years old in the US, however it is very poorly funded in terms of research dollars compared to things like cancer, HIV etc.

Datasets are limited and expansion with AI would be huge.

One specific application - determining cost effectiveness of placing tourniquets in public places - much like the idea of having defibrillators at the mall. And funding community training, see the "Stop the Bleed" campaign.

snowpanda 4 days ago 1 reply      
Lyme disease frequency, given that the CDC grossly underestimated it (and admitted to that). [1]

And frequency by state, especially in the Western States where it is under-diagnosed.

[1] http://www.cbsnews.com/news/cdc-lyme-disease-rates-10-times-...

TurlochOTierney 4 days ago 1 reply      
Anything I can drill into on bipolar. Treatment, outcome and quality of life. I came across this https://blog.23andme.com/23andme-research/what-patients-say-... in 2013. Most studies are qualitative not quantitative and the data is not released.
angersock 4 days ago 2 replies      
So, the last startup I was a fulltime engineer at actually worked in this area.

What I would suggest to be maximally useful would be to focus on physiological data: EKG/ECG, EMG, glucose, SPO2, maybe various blood work counts.

All of those are data that are both well-understood and are thrown away regularly, and that if fed into a computer with modern ML methods we could maybe see some really cool stuff.

I'd suggest staying away from unstructured data and things that are primarily of interest to only the business side of healthcare--insurance figures, billing codes, EMR/EHR shit.

If you really wanted to get in there, putting up a minimal and standardized format for representing labs and medications would go a looooong way.


The problem in healthcare isn't the medical stuff--it's that people get bogged down in the inefficiencies of the system and zoom off solving problems that are removed from the immediate task of "what the fuck is wrong with this patient from the instruments I have at hand?"

leovander 4 days ago 0 replies      
SNOMED, LOINC, CPT, ICD9, ICD10, Gender, Race and Ethnicity codes. On top of that, getting all the CCD section specific OID's.
awjr 4 days ago 0 replies      
Did some investigation into prescription data however prescription data is usually aggregated at surgery level. Also the reason for prescribing the drug (even at high general level) is not recorded. If prescription data was available at LSOA level (http://www.datadictionary.nhs.uk/data_dictionary/nhs_busines...) then you would be able to study epidemiology and potentially identify urban/rural areas where certain diseases are prevalant.
jszymborski 4 days ago 1 reply      
(Breast) Cancer biopsies, with histology and outcome reports.

While it isn't my research project, I've been trying to use computer vision and some naive AI to identify early breast cancer lesions in images from mouse tissue with mixed success, but it's something that can be very much accelerated with a large human dataset with outcomes.

(If you work in the field and what to help/hire me with/for something like this, kindly send a message to hn AT naj-p.com)

There are understandably some ethical guidelines that need to be worked for this sort of thing, but seeing as their are public repositories of not-so-dissimilar information (e.g. mammograms), it should be workable.

ljw1001 4 days ago 2 replies      
Combined phenotype/genotype datasets. These are (with some good reason) very difficult for anyone outside the medical-research establishment to get access to, but the net result is that it creates market barriers supporting the existing big players.
jnordwick 4 days ago 0 replies      
STDs by congress person
amelius 4 days ago 0 replies      
I'm wondering how an automated diagnosis could work in practice.

The data probably contains a number of symptoms or measurements (bloodwork), and a diagnosis by a doctor.

I can see how you can train a deep-learning model for that.

What if the patient is prescribed medication. Is the condition of the patient over time (after giving the medication) tracked by doctors?

Personally, I have found that once a doctor prescribes me some medication, he never asks me how things are going (except maybe once). So how accurate can the data be?

tmaly 4 days ago 0 replies      
I really think having price transparency across providers for both medical treatments and for medicine would be a game changer for the industry.
StClaire 4 days ago 3 replies      
Images. Brain scans. Mammograms. Eye scans.

Patient history would help too. (I know there's HIPPA to comply with, but as much as we can get can help train better classifiers.)

rafinha 4 days ago 4 replies      
I'm not sure such thing exists: "large companies with lots of medical data". Medical data is often confidential and belong to hospitals.
deepnotderp 4 days ago 0 replies      
Drug molecule datasets would be an absolute boon.
donquichotte 4 days ago 0 replies      
I'm neither working on AI nor a medical expert, but it would be nice to have a dataset with pictures of melanoma and whether they are cancerous or not, to build an app similar to https://skinvision.com/.
gregfjohnson 4 days ago 0 replies      
I work in respiratory therapy. Would like real-time ventilator telemetry data: volume, flow, pressure, SpO2. Alarms. Setting changes to medical devices (ventilator specifically). Condition requiring ventilation (ARDS, COPD,premature birth, etc.) Clinical assessment of patient outcome.
kumarski 4 days ago 0 replies      
We have over a billion data points at http://semantic.md with high value context that we use to service companies in the space.

Would be exciting/somewhat disruptive if YC democratized access to it.

id122015 3 days ago 0 replies      
A dataset with all the doctors in the world. And their ranks if possible. And what they worked before being a doctor - paid feature.
jonjlee 4 days ago 0 replies      
Decoupling medical notes from billing would relieve a huge burden from the modern practice of medicine. I would like to have a robust set of clinic notes with the corresponding outgoing billing documents.
ipunchghosts 4 days ago 0 replies      
EKG data. I've never had an EKG done where the computer was even close to predicting correctly what was going on. As someone who does DSP, this is not that difficult of a problem a RNN and lots of data.
oomkiller 4 days ago 1 reply      
Structured longitudinal patient data (diagnosis and procedure codes, lab data, step data from fitbits, etc), but with AI unstructured may become more useful as well. This is probably an opportunity in itself.
Odenwaelder 4 days ago 0 replies      
For my work, I need information on public health in developing countries, especially in Africa. There's a lot of information from WHO, but it's not properly machine readable.
zitterbewegung 4 days ago 0 replies      
A comprehensive listing of foods and the allergies that are associated with them (a listing of food ingredients with tags like peanuts / shellfish etc... ).
getAidlab 4 days ago 0 replies      
At https://www.aidlab.com we use PhysioNet for our filtration research, but an additional database would be lovely!
sheraz 4 days ago 0 replies      
Spirometery data for people with or without respiratory diseases / conditions. For example, healthy males / female data from age 5 to 95.

Then those with Diseases or conditions.

rajvansia 4 days ago 0 replies      
Vital signs data during surgical cases with anesthesia data
leecarraher 4 days ago 0 replies      
why start with medical data? with hipaa it seems (rightfully so) to contain some of the most heavily guarded types of data out there.
technics256 4 days ago 0 replies      
Hospitalist/intake physician hospital notes matched to ICD10 codes. Extremely useful and difficult to find.
idclip 4 days ago 0 replies      
Viruses for sure to curb the next epidemic - and put an end to hiv, hpv and the flu.
JusticeJuice 4 days ago 1 reply      
Illness rates by region to build a consumer facing 'google trends' for health.
ipunchghosts 4 days ago 0 replies      
Easy, picnichealth.com database. Curated medical database. This thing is a gold mine.
ryptophan 4 days ago 0 replies      
Dermatology is complicated. A labeled image dataset of skin conditions?
socmag 4 days ago 0 replies      
Sounds awesome.

Anything geospatial would be superb. Disease transmission for example.

carbocation 4 days ago 1 reply      
ECG data at the signal level.
merqurio 4 days ago 0 replies      
Tagged medical notes from Medical Records. The same way there is ImageNet.
maxxxxx 4 days ago 1 reply      
How about pricing data?
farhanhubble 4 days ago 0 replies      
Blood test reports of all kinds, images of smears.
Ask HN: What are some good React resources?
63 points by Bashmaistora  3 days ago   17 comments top 10
FullMtlAlcoholc 3 days ago 2 replies      
If you're just starting out with React, I highly recommend Tyler McGinnis's free React Fundamentals course: https://reacttraining.com/online/react-fundamentals

It's the gold standard IMO for an intro to React

acemarke 3 days ago 0 replies      
I keep a big list of links to high-quality tutorials and articles on React, Redux, and related topics, at https://github.com/markerikson/react-redux-links . Specifically intended to be a great starting point for anyone trying to learn the ecosystem, as well as a solid source of good info on more advanced topics.

Besides all the tutorials and articles, my list also has a section on "Community Resources", which points to other useful lists, newsletters, and more: https://github.com/markerikson/react-redux-links/blob/master... .

I'll also specifically highlight the Reactiflux community on Discord. It's a great place to ask questions, chat, and learn about React and related technologies. The invite link is at https://www.reactiflux.com .

sgslo 3 days ago 2 replies      
I publish a series of React tutorials on Udemy.com, check the first one out here: https://www.udemy.com/react-redux?couponCode=HSALE10. I've had many people go through the course and they generally seem to enjoy it :)
rwieruch 2 days ago 0 replies      
The Road to learn React [0] was released in November and already improved to its 3rd edition (released a few weeks ago). It is up to date, pay what you want and people enjoy it. If you want to check it out, I would be keen to hear your feedback!

- [0] https://www.robinwieruch.de/the-road-to-learn-react/

paulshen 3 days ago 0 replies      
I've written some tutorials and articles on http://buildwithreact.com. Hope they help!
abuzafor 3 days ago 0 replies      
Here is one of the most extensive collection of react resource that I often check https://github.com/enaqx/awesome-react

Also find some resources here: http://codecondo.com/reactjs-resources/

vinylkey 3 days ago 0 replies      
I really enjoyed React for Beginners: https://reactforbeginners.com/
CraftThatBlock 3 days ago 0 replies      
Ask HN: Drupal or Django for my startup? and why
10 points by pepeto  1 day ago   27 comments top 16
aliskov 1 day ago 0 replies      
It sounds like you're not the technical founder because those two frameworks are completely different in nature and if you were you'd have a clear answer. I don't have professional experience with either. I do have experience with failed startup ideas because I started with a focus on technology and not problem. Btw, I am also Bulgarian so that's probably what we have in common. There are tens of technology stacks that can create a technical solution. However, there are very few founders that can create a strategy and build a business to topple an existing player. Just remember that. The technology should be the easy part to figure out.

Just my 2c.

cdnsteve 1 day ago 1 reply      
Wrote a 100k line of code financial app in Drupal 7. It's not compatible with D8, and expect the same with D9.Testing is less than an afterthought in the community, docs in D8 are usually empty pages when you dig in, the technology is loosing mindshare and not many are hiring. These are all red flags for a startup. It can be used to build apps but I would stay away.

Go with Django. Python is a more productive and clear language. Django is excellent at ensuring an upgrade path, provides great docs.

If you have well defined services, it sounds like you do, then make them apis. You could have separate Djano apps or use Flask, a great micro framework.

Overall my experience with Python and the community for building web apps has been great.

ben_jones 1 day ago 1 reply      
The older I get the more I realize that language/framework decisions at many companies is a function of 1) what your existing team knows already and 2) the business requirements of your company. Furthermore I believe the goal of a founder is to solve problems with people (like fundraising, hiring, etc.) and not computers (by coding).
roddds 1 day ago 1 reply      
Background: I work at a Fintech startup where the backend is built with Django. I have about 4 years of experience with it, and have worked on Django projects from several different industries, from education to ecommerce. I absolutely recommend that you go with Django. Your project sounds like will deal with many different types of problems, and using Django and Python will allow you to take advantage of the huge ecosystem of third-party libraries that will save you a ton of time. CMS systems like Drupal are great if your main activity is publishing content, but anything past that will leave you fighting with its internals while you should be writing business logic.
guitarbill 1 day ago 0 replies      
I currently work for a large eCommerce site that uses Django/Python. Before that I worked with a large PHP CMS, though not Drupal. Some non-obvious, and practical things that Django does well:

* Dependency management is way easier with Python, so upgrading and deploying is less error prone

* Django scales really well thanks to excellent caching with e.g. Redis. Adding caching to views (pages) is child's play, and super easy to debug/purge.

* Speaking about scaling, writing a REST API or consuming a REST API is much easier in Django (django-rest-framework and requests, respectively)

* The Django ecosystem is great. If you have a problem you want to solve, someone has probably done it already and published a package

* The Drupal middleware is awful compared to Django middleware

* Testing

* The Django admin interface is amazing [0], and at least as good as any off-the-shelf CMS. It does permissions and custom actions. Your sales team needs to upload a CSV file of suppliers? No problem, just add it right in there.

* Debugging. The Django shell and pdb/ipdb are great tools.

Finally, thanks to some non-obvious pitfalls in PHP, you have to take more care when writing PHP to make it secure. Apart from the flame-wars, the only practical issue is when hiring. You need to make sure you hire PHP candidates who know the language inside out. With Django/Python, you can be a bit more lax - there's far fewer non-obvious pitfalls, especially with the templating system and ORM of Django. It also takes devs less time to do a thorough code review. IMO, it's easier to grow a Django team.

[0] https://docs.djangoproject.com/en/dev/ref/contrib/admin/

ehllo 1 day ago 0 replies      
You should compare something like laravel(https://laravel.com/) or symfony(https://symfony.com/) against the djangoproject(https://www.djangoproject.com/). I think this is a more appropriate choice. If you are not sure about the dev-performance of your team with a naked framework, you should consider something like the Oro-Platform(https://github.com/orocrm/platform) or Odoo(https://github.com/odoo/odoo). You can also work with a e-commerce/shop system like oscar(https://github.com/django-oscar/django-oscar) or shuup(https://github.com/shuup/shuup) as a base.
stevepurkiss 1 day ago 1 reply      
I've been Drupaling for 13 years, before that I was J2EEing, before that I was AS/400 RPGing. Before that I was PASCALing at college, BASICing and Assemblering at home. I've seen all kinds of businesses and startups, and I've seen what works and what doesn't.

My advice to you is to use Drupal because you can get far fast. Use lean methodology (lean canvas etc.) and get your MVP out as fast as possible and start making money. Don't try and build lots of functionality that you don't know works, and by works I mean makes a profit.

Watch GaryV, as he says - the market is always right. Focus on selling cars or vin checking or whatever it is you're doing, nobody apart from techies give a hoot what your site is built on. Some of the biggest sites in the world are built on PHP, e.g. Facebook. Some of the biggest sites are built on Drupal, e.g. Weather.com (the most personalised site as every visitor sees a different output, and delivers data to mobile apps).

Your code won't help your business succeed, selling will.

drewjaja 1 day ago 1 reply      
We migrated from Drupal to Django a few years ago and haven't been happier. Sites have become easier to maintain, new features are developed faster and designers find Django templates easier to work with.

We found Drupal's hooking system a pain to work with and it made debugging incredibly difficult.

We were using Drupal 6 at the time, not sure what has improved since then.

kopos 1 day ago 0 replies      
So I've experience of working with both and technically you are comparing apples to oranges. Drupal is a CMS built in PHP while Django is a Python framework to make web-apps (one of them being a CMS).

* A framework works at a lower level compared to a CMS. So if you have lot of customizations to be done which is not limited to how it looks - a framework is better* If most of the work needed is to change how a site looks and content only, a CMS might be a good fit* From your point it looks like there is a need for a strong platform* Which language are you programmers comfortable with (if you already have a tech team)?

For the company I was working in earlier, Drupal 7 was being used.

For my own startup I am using Django.

scot_hacker 1 day ago 0 replies      
I wrote this back in 2009 so it's a bit long in the tooth at this point, but still mostly accurate (and I'm still going strong with Django in 2017):

Drupal or Django? A Guide for Decision Makershttp://blog.birdhouse.org/2009/11/11/drupal-or-django/

felipellrocha 1 day ago 1 reply      
Django. Stay away from php
t312227 1 day ago 0 replies      

imho ... i worked with both of them :)


* drupal is a really nice, secure and extensible portal-system which can be enhanced with plugins written in php

* python-django is a web-framework based on common design-patterns

whats better for you!? it depends what you want to achive, but i think for a startup - and a maximum of flexibility + scalability - i would prefere python-django.

why? as a "general" webframework its more flexible than the portal/plugin approach of drupal + i would prefer python over php.

romanhn 1 day ago 1 reply      
Even though my experience is from a few years back, I absolutely cannot recommend Drupal for complex, custom applications. See my write-up here: https://github.com/rshekhtm/VentureTap/blob/master/README.md, especially the Lessons Learned section.
zhte415 1 day ago 0 replies      
I started with Drupal when it was 4.7, shortly to move to 5.x. We had a group blog, and it did the job pretty well, and it felt good to take advantage of things like maps modules and tagging. But niggling pains were there. Having to add extra modules to deal with duplicate pages ending in /, and while views was pretty simple point-and-click at the start, it seemed like it could do a lot more.

As time progressed, we added voting, rss aggregation, quizzes, and started extending views with URL arguments, relationships, fancy combinations of filters, login was via OAuth, and we were at 7.x by now. It was feeling unwieldy. Always aggressive in theming, what we wanted to do was taking an increasing amount of time, both in function and appearance.

A new project came along, and I thought, eh, Drupal can do that. And it surely could, seeing a nail, Drupal is a hammer that can do anything.

But it does it in a way where maintenance, or getting things exactly the way you want become incredibly time-consuming, and the code is a maze unless you're in it 24/7, and we had chosen Drupal not to be in code 24/7.

My background is not as a developer, but finance where using technology is an important skill. I can Bash, Ruby, JS, VBA/.Net, Python, R, and a few others to varying levels.

I shuddered a little when seriously considering Drupal as a solution to this new problem, mapping out the edge cases and exactly how many modules were needed (60+).

I ended up taking a week off learning NodeJS and using hapi as a framework. Just because I wanted a fresh start, not that I was enthralled with Node, but as so many others were using it, surely something was there.

This freshness gave some time to think about what I actually wanted, and to back-track from there, focusing on simplicity and well, simplicity. How to make everything as simple as possible, which is what a high level code framework offers.

You don't sound that technical, and I don't have experience with Django, however I recommend taking a code-approach, even if you don't want or need to be sitting in code, as you'll have access to and know how everything really works, not a pre-written GUI one where you're clutching at straws. Most web challenges are about the idea, the code implementation for what you sound like your doing, at an initial stage, is probably that not complex, and if you have success with the core idea, get technical talent onboard to optimise or do the things you find too hard.

A word of warning, however: Focus on making things simple. That will stop you going into a rabbit warren filled with code spaghetti.


Drupal is an excellent tool for publishing, and accommodates some complex publishing workflows that need multiple authors or layers of editing or approval. Core modules like comments or maps compliment this, but that's it. If your core need is greater than publishing (I suppose marketplace is publishing, and there are eCommerce modules), Drupal is a quick solution, but if your long-term roadmap means doing something remotely unique technically or in UX, roll your own using a framework to prevent re-inventing the wheel (and ending up with security nightmares). Bring on technical talent at an early stage when your idea seems proved. If you have funding, do this right away.

sebbean 1 day ago 0 replies      
devoply 1 day ago 0 replies      
Drupal 6 and 7 use Drupal crap function-based programming (not functional programming) style which over time leads to maintenance mess as you have tangled interdependencies of modules which are not 100% in terms of test coverage or quality. Drupal 8 bootstraps on top of that mess OOP. Drupal is engineered as garbage and gets unwieldy pretty quickly if you are going to be doing custom programming and straying away from the main modules. However for your case it's foreseeable you could stick to views and content types, and templates to customize those and not have to stray too much into actually writing custom code, however the UX of that sort of thing in Drupal is still shit and trying to customize that makes you do it the Drupal way which is often ugly and complicated. PHP 7 is a modern language I recommend a modern PHP framework or a modern Python framework like Django. In the end use what your technical founder knows best. Drupal makes it seem as if it's going to cut down on work, in the end it leads to more work to maintain, scale, and keep adding features and creating a better UX experience which users have come to expect. These days I would probably use some language for the backend and make the frontend with a responsive javascript framework like Angular, React, etc.
Ask HN: Career advice for a new grad
9 points by dostoevsky  1 day ago   6 comments top 4
kejaed 1 hour ago 0 replies      
Hi from Ottawa. If you are moving back here for a job, why wouldn't you move closer to work? Also note the new light rail system is under construction, so that could also factor into where you might live wrt where you work. Long commutes may be standard in other places, but unless you want to live in the burbs for family reasons and then have a commute to work, I'd advise against that in Ottawa (or anywhere!).

I've not lived in London, but grew up in Montreal and lived in Toronto. I've been fortunate enough to visit many US and European metropolitan areas. In saying all that, I really find Ottawa to be a nice-sized small city. It's a government town for sure, but there is also a lot of Aero & Defence (where I ended up) as well as high tech (Shopify, Apple, Amazon, QNX/Ford's new self driving car centre). It's big enough to have pro sports teams, but small enough that you can be in the country in 20 minutes if you want to. No 16 lanes of highway anywhere in sight, either.

At the end of the day though, try not to worry about it too much. As others have said in this thread, the first job will define a path in life, but so will the second job, or that next person you talk to on the bus, it's all a big random walk. You are fortunate to have two interesting opportunities in front of you, so have fun and good luck.

taway_1212 1 day ago 0 replies      
The moment you take your first job, it starts defining your career. If you tend to lean towards C++, I'd go there. Otherwise, in 5 years time you may end up being a well paid senior "modern" stack developer who really wish he could work on low level stuff instead. At this point it'll be too late though - it's hard start over and take a pay cut from say 100k back to 40k.

Having said that, the "modern" stack is definitely safer. The C++ market is great for really awesome, technical people, but there's not that many offers for people who are average. With modern tech it's the other way around - it is generally easier to use so there's less need for awesome people (which can make it boring if you are very talented), but it's very safe (in terms of job security) for average people. Also, in the C/C++ world you'll be competing against guys who've been building up their domain knowledge for 20-30 years...

My story is that I went with the safe side and my salary and working conditions are excellent now. The jobs themselves are completely uninspiring though. On the other hand, I'm not sure if I had the mental firepower to be a really great c++ programmer (say, senior engine programmer at a game company), as I get tired rather easily. So, even now (10+ years into my career), I'm not sure if I made the right call.

Re: London, it's huge, feels old/dirty (when I touch a building's wall, I wonder how many hundreds of people and dogs have pissed on that spot in the past), crowded and absurdly expensive. On the other hand, it is great for job hopping, so it might be wise to stay there in the formative years of your career.

mvpu 15 hours ago 0 replies      
I'd go with the London offer solely based on "man, I'd really love to work with that person". In the early stages of your career, it's best to optimize for people. The best investment you can make is work with people you admire and want to learn from. In the long run, relationships matter more than anything else. All other things - stack, languages, cost of living - are temporal. Quality of people and relationships are valuable long term. Good luck!
ramtatatam 1 day ago 1 reply      
You will do OK in London with 40k as your starting salary (if you are single). Senior Python devs would do north of 55k here. Though be prepared you will move flats several times before you land at your perfect spot.

London is huge, so is the market. So is the competition :-)

I have never been to Ottawa. I have moved to London 7 years ago, feel free to ask more questions if you have some.

Ask HN: What's current best practices to document software architecture?
4 points by BrandiATMuhkuh  1 day ago   3 comments top 3
iEchoic 1 day ago 0 replies      
UML has fallen out of favor, in my experience - and for good reason. It's too heavyweight, rigorous, and precise for projects that are rapidly changing. UML documentation often ends up falling behind and becoming useless (or even actively harmful). It also is less effective at conveying many high-level ideas than a short paragraph is.

I've been seeing highly-competent orgs move towards focusing more energy on making code "living documentation" by factoring it in ways that make it easier to understand, and where that is not sufficient, using a lightweight form of high-level documentation such as a wiki. I think this fits better into the lifecycle of most software projects these days.

For API documentation, if necessary (there are people actually integrating with your API), auto-generated documentation is the way to go, IMO. There are a few ways to do this, I can elaborate on a few if you're interested.

mrits 1 day ago 0 replies      
I use Markdown Plus. It has a plugin (mermaid) that lets you write some graphs and sequence diagrams in markdown. I find it easier to make updates to diagrams this way. It doesn't make the most beautiful renderings, but works pretty well for me.
ParameterOne 1 day ago 0 replies      
Payment gateway options other than Stripe?
6 points by beckah  1 day ago   7 comments top 4
posguy 1 day ago 1 reply      
Flat fee processing is always going to be more expensive, unless the Independent Sales Organization chooses to lose money (like Amazon Register lost money[1]).

Going over interchange should save you some money, there are a bevy of ISOs out there to choose from, and virtually all of them will be able to replace Stripe.

Restricting what your customers can pay with, say only allowing Debit, or not accepting American Express, can also allow you to cut costs, albeit it reflects poorly on your business.

1 - http://fortune.com/2015/10/30/amazon-register-shutting-down/

AgilePay 1 day ago 0 replies      
When you say "handling payments" do you mean you accept the payment and then in turn pay out your partner?
eecks 1 day ago 0 replies      
Realex? Never used them and they probably take a cut too
MichaelBurge 1 day ago 0 replies      
If it's business-to-business, you may be able to encourage your customers to pay via ACH or check, which costs pennies to process.

You could also choose to only take debit cards(and exclude credit cards). I know a local grocery store that does this, and it can be far cheaper if you use the right payment processor.

Ask HN: Current Crypto Best Practices
194 points by msingle  4 days ago   68 comments top 17
jjperezaguinaga 4 days ago 2 replies      
If you come from a computer science/math background, and want an intro to cryptography in general, I can strongly recommend the Coursera course from Stanford University by professor Dan Boneh - https://www.coursera.org/learn/crypto. To really understand the implementations of security libraries and tools, one should be at least familiar with the fundamentals and terminology of crypto. Otherwise you are blindly encrypting things without being aware of whether you are actually securing things.

The course is free and takes 6 weeks long, and is very interesting if you had never dwelled too deep into security or crypto. There's also a new cryptography class that will be available in September of 2017 - https://www.coursera.org/learn/crypto2.

mlaretallack 4 days ago 1 reply      
Cryptographic Right Answers is a good place to start


cvwright 4 days ago 1 reply      
I'm surprised to see so few recommendations for libsodium. https://download.libsodium.org/doc/

For pretty much any crypto task that a "run-of-the-mill programmer" is likely to run into, they've got you covered.

Secret key encryption: https://download.libsodium.org/doc/secret-key_cryptography/a...

Password hashing: https://download.libsodium.org/doc/password_hashing/

garrettr_ 4 days ago 0 replies      
Cryptography Engineering [0] is a great book that covers key topics in cryptography with a focus on best practices for implementors and system/protocol designers.

Matthew Green's blog, A Few Thoughts on Cryptographic Engineering [1], has a wealth of interesting posts that are often aimed at explaining cryptography to a "technical but non-cryptographer" audience, and tend to be motivated by recent events in security/cryptography news.

[0]: https://www.amazon.com/Cryptography-Engineering-Principles-P...[1]: https://blog.cryptographyengineering.com/

lucb1e 4 days ago 0 replies      
The IT Security StackExchange website contains lots of information which is generally kept reasonably up to date. For example a TLS answer might be a bit old and not list last week's attack, but if something turns incorrect it will often be edited.


Tepix 4 days ago 2 replies      
OWASP has some nice guidelines on a lot of topics, including storing passwords.

Start at https://www.owasp.org/index.php/Password_Storage_Cheat_Sheet

mistat 4 days ago 4 replies      
The golden rule about storing a password is to not store a password...I can't wait till SQRL takes off
tptacek 4 days ago 0 replies      
The answers for this depend on what you're trying to do. Can you be more specific? Coda's password storage advice is still the best advice for people who don't know what they'd do otherwise.
cshep 4 days ago 0 replies      
Dan Boneh's Coursera course is ideal for any beginner. Cryptography Engineering by Schneier et al. is good, as is Ross Anderson's Security Engineering, but both are fairly dated.

The OWASP guidance is OK for a quick access to best practices, but insufficient for rigorous learning.

Cryptography takes time to digest the fundamentals and recognise how new concepts are both beneficial and, vitally, disadvantageous; sadly, there is no cheat sheet or quick fix.

Source: computer security PhD student.

lothiraldan 4 days ago 0 replies      
I'm currently building a community website for these kind of questions (storing password, constant-time token comparison), the design is pretty raw for the moment: https://sqreen.github.io/DevelopersSecurityBestPractices/saf...

The code examples are in Python, but I plan to add pages in other languages.

zitterbewegung 4 days ago 1 reply      
A good guide for password hashing is https://paragonie.com/blog/2016/02/how-safely-store-password... . I think your codehale link is out of date since it's from 2010.
jeremymcanally 4 days ago 1 reply      
I made this a while ago: http://howtostoreapassword.com. Still relevant I think. :)

I should probably update it to use one of the more modern algos, but the availability of good bcrypt libraries makes it solid advice still.

yeukhon 4 days ago 0 replies      
Quick sites:

* PyCon Crypto 101 - https://www.crypto101.io/ (and if you use Python, please use Cryptography library for encryption/decryption please, Python built-in provides sha and hmac already though, and please adopt your framework's security implementation whenever possible).

* Mozilla Web Security Guidelines - https://wiki.mozilla.org/Security/Guidelines/Web_Security

* Mozilla Secure Coding Guideline - https://wiki.mozilla.org/WebAppSec/Secure_Coding_Guidelines

* Mozilla Server Side TLS - https://wiki.mozilla.org/Security/Server_Side_TLS

* Mozilla Intro to Cryptography (slide: https://april.github.io/crypto-presentation video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bg32spD2mB0)

* Mozilla Web wiki - https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web (understand CORS, Cookies, CSP, etc)

* Google's course on security - https://google-gruyere.appspot.com/ (original course page has been taken down by Google already)

Book recommendations:

* The Web Application Hacker's Handbook

* The Tangled Web: A Guide to Securing Modern Web Applications (written by the famous Micha Zalewski working at Google, and lately known for developing the American Fuzzy Loop AFL which has been used for uncovering many new CVE bugs).

* Hacking: The Next Generation

* Securing DevOps (to be released soon)


* USENIX - https://www.usenix.org/ (tons of free high quality conference talks, I like USENIX over ACM)

* Real World Crypto

Getting real

* Go find bug bounty program out there, many well-written posts how one discovered bugs

* Follow a bunch of security engineers / security-minded folks on Twitter (e.g. @matthew_d_green would be a good start)

OWASP is a great reference, you read it as an index page. But like others have pointed out, the Wiki is often outdated, but concepts almost always remain the same. Use multiple resources before implementing a solution, and never just copy and paste solution posted by others on Stackoverflow. Sorry for so many Mozilla stuff definitely there's some bias from me but I trust folks running the sec team there.

alinajaf 4 days ago 1 reply      
Not necessarily best practices, but I recommend the Matasano Crypto Challenges to basically everyone. I make all of the developers on our team do them too:


bsder 3 days ago 0 replies      
So, what's the recommendation for an Authenticated Key Exchange?

I see a lot of "don't use" but I don't see any "do use" for that case.

jasdeepsingh 4 days ago 1 reply      
May be on a tangent and a shameless plug, but I just posted https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14042150 this morning.

Underlock is a small Ruby library that helps with Encrypting/Decrypting of files and other data.

nommm-nommm 4 days ago 1 reply      
       cached 9 April 2017 20:05:01 GMT