hacker news with inline top comments    .. more ..    17 Feb 2016 Ask
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Ask HN: What's it like for software engineers on Wall Street?
3 points by aerovistae  1 hour ago   discuss
Ask HN: Simplest way to create a very basic data driven website these days?
6 points by Terry_B  4 hours ago   3 comments top 3
ryanfitz 1 hour ago 0 replies      
I would look into AWS Lambda. Lambda host backend functions written in javascript, python or java. You can then use the AWS javascript sdk in your frontend code to invoke these lambda functions. This will be very low cost and cuts out a lot of boilerplate work. You pay on a per request basis versus an hourly or monthly basis. So if no one is using your website, then you pay nothing.
joeclark77 13 minutes ago 0 replies      
Python with the Flask framework is great, very easy to do the API endpoints. The whole app can fit in one .py file of about four lines plus 3 per endpoint, see the sample at http://flask.pocoo.org/.

You can host it on Heroku in their free tier of service if it's just for testing. That includes a PostgreSQL instance if you want one.

I don't know much Javascript but with the Flask framework, all HTML/JS/CSS files are static templates that sit in a folder with your app's code. You can deploy with Git or even with Dropbox if you want it on super easy mode.

noodlio 3 hours ago 0 replies      
Firebase + Firebase Hosting for the backend API. Filestack to upload csv files and or to S3.
Ask HN: Is it reasonable to have job applicants complete a test before applying?
8 points by grammernerd  6 hours ago   12 comments top 12
edoceo 2 hours ago 0 replies      
When I'm hiring I break off some small slice of my project. Its something like 4-12 hours of work. We negotiate what there wage would be if hourly and I pay that, with a cap. Then I eval their work, code review (if necessary), pay for the work. The process tells me much more than any interview ever would and costs the same (or less). For the final 4|5 candidates it works well for me
ThrustVectoring 5 hours ago 0 replies      
Forget about the social expectation for a bit - I don't think it's a good idea in terms of attracting the best talent that you can get. There are people who have better things to do with their time than spend an hour or more on a programming puzzle for a company they've never talked to. You want to hire these people.

In terms of economic efficiency, it's much better overall to do resume-screening before the coding challenge. Both you and the candidate spend something less than 5 minutes each checking if it might be a good fit before committing to spending much more time on the process. With the challenge that early, you either make people waste time when you could have found out more cheaply, or you convince people that it's too expensive to find out more about your compatibility.

khaolak 1 hour ago 0 replies      
I'd say it's too much to ask at the application stage. If you want to give a code test after a phone screen, that seems more reasonable. Both parties have more confidence that the position is a good fit, which makes the time required a fair request.
jghn 1 hour ago 0 replies      
I'd only do that sort of thing if I felt there was a decent chance I might get the job. The application stage isn't far enough along.
geoelectric 6 hours ago 0 replies      
That's more the type of question I'd hang out as a programming puzzle on the web and then encourage people who solve it (guide them to a solved screen) to apply with a link to a gist or similar. I've applied to companies before just because I like solving programming puzzles, and once you're at that point, why not?

FWIW, speaking as an SDET lead, I'll do something like that voluntarily, time allowing.

But I A) don't submit applications, I send resumes, so let's start there; and B) wouldn't do something like you describe as a formal prescreen. Before I've talked to you, you have maybe half an hour of my time if I've heard of you, maybe five minutes of my time if I haven't.

After you've convinced me I'd like to work for you, then I'd give you an hour or two on a project, interest depending. Any more than that, and you need to pay me. You'd also probably have to be on my short list of final employer candidates. I'm interviewing y'all too, you know. I'm more inclined to do homework after a successful round of interviews than beforehand, mostly because there'll probably be a job out there I'm equally interested in that doesn't require this. I do pay attention to how much of a pain in the ass a company is to apply to, and it does weigh into my decisions to accept (or even continue).

I realize this comes across maybe a touch arrogant, but it's honestly accurate. Ask yourself this: Do you want the type of developer desperate enough for a job to jump through hoops?

SDET is an extremely competitive niche for good developers, since the QA path tends to filter people out into other disciplines before they hit a good amount of SDET skill. A good SDET can afford to be choosy. This is more friction than I'd put on a process to hire for my team.

jand 6 hours ago 0 replies      
> My question is; is this too much to expect people to do before I even look at their application?

I can understand your desire to pre-filter somehow. But: I would skip this job ad as it is.

You need to have a real good selling point for your company/product/project that makes the applicant really crave the job. (You left that one out to anonymize your post, right?)

You might deny yourself a pool of smart people who either dislike jumping through hoops or have easier access to jobs they deem equally (or more) attractive.

You might attract folks who are more desperate than skilled but nonetheless able to solve your task.

On the other hand: I am not a lawyer and i don't know under which jurisdiction you are operating. Some countries have laws requiring you to consider all incoming applications. So please consult a lawyer, too.

globba22 6 hours ago 0 replies      
It depends on the type of candidate you hope to attract.

If someone is applying for a lot of positions at once, an up front homework problem can be seen as unreasonable before even a basic semblance of role compatibility is established.

Why not offer it as a HW problem after a resume and phone screen?

keefe 5 hours ago 0 replies      
I think having to submit the cover letter in this format is kind of cheesy - it's difficult enough to express oneself concisely. I wouldn't mind posting an application to some well documented endpoint, which included the code to do some task so you could run it. I have been wondering lately about the utility of asking people to do some puzzles on leetcode or whatever if they don't have a github.
bmm6o 5 hours ago 0 replies      
I think it's reasonable to have candidates submit a solution to a problem prior to an interview, but if you require it in order to apply I think you'll find that you don't get very many applicants. In the first case, the candidate has entered the pipeline and has some confidence that the position is still open and that you aren't rejecting him out-of-hand (unqualified, etc).
amattn 5 hours ago 0 replies      
Your job post has two main functions.

1. sell the opportunity2. have candidates self-select out

Every job pipeline is going to follow traditional funnel math and you are starving your funnel.

The test you've proposed is more appropriate for later in the funnel when they are more willing to trade their time for the potential opportunity.

pkinsky 4 hours ago 0 replies      
You should try to evaluate candidates based on their portfolio, resumes, etc. If after doing so you still don't know enough to evaluate them properly then sure, give them a take home test.
Someone1234 6 hours ago 0 replies      
Did you complete this exercise, or have a colleague complete this exercise? If it took more than an hour or you couldn't complete it then it is too hard/long.

If you haven't completed it or had someone complete it then you shouldn't be sending it out at all.

Ask HN: What was your longest time you've spent debugging a single bug?
6 points by acidfreaks  1 hour ago   6 comments top 4
acemarke 1 hour ago 0 replies      
Might not be my actual longest (and certainly isn't anywhere near the stories that I'm sure others here have to tell), but my favorite debugging problem was one I worked on a couple years ago. I had a Python service that was doing a bunch of number crunching, so I used Cython to speed up the math-intensive portions of the code. Added type definitions, referenced several C math functions from math.h, and it was working great on Windows. Set it up using the side-by-side file approach, which lets you leave your original Python files alone, and add all the type info in a ".pxd" file that has to match the exact name of the original ".py" file. So, if I had "FileA.py", I'd also have "FileA.pxd".

Unfortunately, when I went to run this on Linux, it compiled fine, but started throwing some weird exceptions buried deep down in the code. I hadn't actually written the math portion of this myself, but traced it pretty far down. Finally concluded it wasn't finding "cos" somehow, which didn't make any sense, because I was explicitly importing the C function from math.h if using Cython, and importing the normal Python function from the "math" module otherwise.

Took me about 6 hours of tracing, investigating, and steadily growing confusion before I finally figured out what was going on: there was a single letter casing mismatch between a .py file and its corresponding .pxd file. One had a capital 'O', the other had a lower-case 'o'. Worked fine on case-insensitive Windows, but under case-sensitive Linux, it never actually found the proper .pxd file, didn't get the right imports, and thus stuff eventually exploded.

Definitely a pretty high hours-of-work to number-of-characters-changed ratio :)

jareds 1 hour ago 0 replies      
Longest so far has been two weeks spend single stepping assembly code and viewing memory output. Turns out in the latest OS release memory was not initialized to 0 which caused junk to get copied allowing the program to execute with out crashing but not give the expected results.
hoodoof 54 minutes ago 1 reply      
Well not a bug really, but working out how to do something never done before, with many technical challenges, maybe six to eight weeks.
DiabloD3 52 minutes ago 0 replies      
3 years.

I still cannot display video on my Chromecast while continuing to play audio on my phone while using any given Chromecast app.

Ask HN: How do I contact a recruiter?
14 points by mattchue  11 hours ago   27 comments top 8
JSeymourATL 10 hours ago 1 reply      
> I've been struggling getting responses or meaningful feedback ...

Recruiters are NOT in the feedback business.

They lack brains, time, and professionalism. Plus, they're often afraid they might say the wrong thing, better to say nothing at all.

What to do?

Jump on Linkedin's advanced search feature. Zero-in on interesting profiles in your market of senior managers/executives you can possibly help. Ping them, tell them you're seeking career advice. Ask for a 10-15 minute phone call. You may be may surprised how responsive people are to your request. BTW, stay in touch with those folks with updates. Start building your network.

mathattack 10 hours ago 1 reply      
Get an introduction.

Go out and meet as many people as you can. (Meetups, Random drinking nights, etc) Connect to everyone you meet on LinkedIn. Have someone introduce you to the recruiter. Not everyone will do it, but enough people out there will be helpful. The recruiter has many more resumes than jobs. A referral will almost always cut the line. If you can the introduction to the hiring manager, even better.

By recruiter I mean corporate recruiter, not headhunter. No need to get an introduction to a headhunter. If you're a 100% match to a job, they're helpful. Otherwise they're not.

Good luck!

sebg 11 hours ago 1 reply      
Rather than waste your time with a recruiter, do the following:

1) Figure out exciting companies/teams/individuals2) Research what they are doing3) Reach out with a humble email almost like what you wrote, but make it about their company and what you like about them.4) Rinse, repeat

cblock811 6 hours ago 1 reply      
Recruiters aren't going to give you a good idea of where you are. They largely know clusters of keywords (Rails, Ruby, RSpec) from what I gathered. When I last used recruiters I had ~1.5yrs experience and one said "I think you're at a Senior Engineer level..." And I thought "You have no idea what you just said".

Talk to a more senior engineer you know, or go get to know one to get this feed back. They are more qualified.

MalcolmDiggs 4 hours ago 0 replies      
Well, to answer your question: Post your resume on a job board (dice, ziprecruiter, monster, whatever), make sure the text is machine readable, and your contact info is included. If you do that, the recruiters will come.

But as everyone else has mentioned, you probably don't wanna do that. The best feedback comes directly from hiring managers themselves, not recruiters. Recruiters aren't necessarily incentivized to paint you an accurate picture.

kasey_junk 5 hours ago 0 replies      
If it were me I'd do stock fighter.io. patio11 & tptacek are the only recruiters I'd bother with & the game is going to be Nx more interesting than any other recruiter pipeline.
shofetim 10 hours ago 1 reply      
Contact the recruiters directly. This is one: http://arrowsolutionsgroup.com/ that I have found pleasant to work with.
tmaly 11 hours ago 1 reply      
create a linkedin profile, add your skills. The site is well used by recruiters. A few should reach out to you.
Ask HN: Does somebody needs a full-process desginer on your team?
2 points by mihavidakovich  6 hours ago   4 comments top 2
mtmail 3 hours ago 0 replies      
"Does somebody need <me>" isn't a good discussion topic. It's a job ad. On Hackernews job ads are submitted on the first day of the month in two discussion threads by https://news.ycombinator.com/submitted?id=whoishiring

(I have nothing against one job ad. But companies tend to be aggressive submitting their ads and freelancers would start too if it becomes successful. There are many other websites and forums for job ads).

rgovind 4 hours ago 1 reply      
You may want to define what Full process means? Also, your question emphasizes process than designer, which I think is the position you are really looking for
Ask HN: Is Python dying?
235 points by tanlermin  2 days ago   341 comments top 92
viraptor 2 days ago 7 replies      
That may be a view through the distorted HN lenses. Spend some time on Lambda the Ultimate and you'll think imperative programming is dying.

Go is new and has lots of issues. It's annoying on many fronts and badly needs improvements in packaging area. It's good for some things and worse for others.

JS is for frontend, because it's the only supported language. (although there are python-to-js compilers available if you really want to use it)

Julia for data science? Only if you started recently. R, numpy/scipy, mathematica, matlab, etc. still rule data science.

The projects you listed for python are fairly new. I expect half of them will be dead and forgotten in a year and other half will get more popular, but they're not future-proofing anything. Python always had a lot of experiments going on and will likely get more of them in the future.

Trying to predict language popularity is like trying to play on the stockmarket. Unless you can research what's really happening inside the biggest players (companies/organisations) you won't get realistic answers. Just learn what you like and what's relatively popular. Expect you'll need to learn something else in 5 years.

BTW: Go was created in 2009, julia in 2012, reasonable js (ecma5) in late 2009. Python's around since 1991 - do you really expect it's just going to disappear?

Alex3917 2 days ago 5 replies      
Not only is Python not dying, but it's stronger than it's ever been. The majority of top colleges are now teaching CS using Python. It's completely dominant in academia, finance, and startups. It has the best libraries and documentation of any language. And Django has arguably the strongest community of any open source project period.

That's not to say there are zero problems, but Python is so much better than all the other alternatives that this just seems like a ridiculous question.

hoodoof 2 days ago 7 replies      
http://www.simplyhired.com/search?q=pythonShowing 1-10 of 169,970 Python jobs

http://www.simplyhired.com/search?q=rubyShowing 1-10 of 128,305 Ruby jobs

http://www.simplyhired.com/search?q=javaShowing 1-10 of 190,126 Java jobs

http://www.simplyhired.com/search?q=golangShowing 1-10 of 219 Golang jobs

http://www.simplyhired.com/search?q=juliaShowing 1-10 of 206 Julia jobs

http://www.simplyhired.com/search?q=%22python+3%22Showing 1-10 of 151 Python 3 jobs

http://www.simplyhired.com/search?q=%22python+2%22Showing 1-10 of 141 Python 2 jobs

normac 2 days ago 2 replies      
Python occupies a niche that isn't going away any time soon: making it easy and natural to write readable, straightforward, more-or-less imperative, slightly boring code of the type you learned in CS 101.

This is still a very practical way to solve many problems and I'd wager for most programmers it's still the easiest way to do things. Maybe it will always be. It's hard to imagine there'll be a generation of programmers some day that finds it easier to compose dozens of tiny modules, chain callbacks with a variety of async abstractions, and implement as much as possible in tiny idempotent functions.

I feel like the worst case scenario for Python is that it will fade into the wallpaper of mature and unsexy languages like Java and C++ that nonetheless run the world and will probably be around for another 100 years at least. I'm guessing Guido would be cool with that.

21 2 days ago 4 replies      
Interesting stats regarding version 2/3 usage from a moderator of /r/python today:

Here's the breakdown by which Pythons were used to download from PyPI in the last two weeks:

 2.7 85.90% 2.6 6.66% 3.4 4.64% 3.5 2.09% 3.3 0.56% 3.2 0.12%
(Two weeks was ~133 million downloads)


windlep 1 day ago 4 replies      
Yes, Python is dying, that's why it just moved up in the Tiobe rankings to #5, displacing PHP (which obviously no one ever uses):http://www.tiobe.com/index.php/content/paperinfo/tpci/index....

It's dominance of science is why Python has 25% science talks this year at PyCon, and why we see articles like:http://www.infoworld.com/article/3012442/application-develop...

But yes, if you didn't know any languages, then of course you should invest in an immature language with no mature libraries for the tasks you need to complete, because you were given a few months of extra runway time by your boss to fill-in the library ecosystem instead of getting your job done. We'll ignore that PyPy places you damn close to Go in terms of performance (except with mature proven libs), and that usually your task won't be CPU-bound anyways (the GIL release on I/O tasks)....

Why do troll questions like this even hit the front page of HN?

jerf 2 days ago 2 replies      
The word for Python is mature. If fireworks aren't going off with every release, it's because it's past that phase of life.

The only concern I have for Python is exactly the temptation to keep adding features and chasing other language's tail lights. I've recently gotten the chance to see a fairly novice programmer dip toes into some Python-based testing code, and it's definitely gotten pretty easy to make awfully magical and complicated Python code after all the decades of accumulated features. They get a very different experience with Python getting the whole thing dumped on them at once than I did riding with the language from roughly 2.0 and watching the features come in one by one.

Python has many advantages over, say, Go right now, but the advantages that Go has over Python, Python is not in a position to reasonably add to itself. Is it "future-proofing" Python, or is it taking something already pretty complicated and crusting on one-too-many layers of "features"?

jedberg 2 days ago 4 replies      
Reading HN, you'd think Java was dying (dead?) too. But it's not. It's an established language with a lot of very senior people still using it. It has it's issues for sure, but it also has a ton of libraries and support.

Python I'd say is in a similar boat. Strong and established with tons of libraries, not popular amongst the kids.

Edit: Apparently my use of "kids" as a sarcastic way of referring to those who won't use "old" languages was missed. :)

mountaineer 2 days ago 1 reply      
Python has been the #1 language/technology in Hacker News whoishiring threads 11 of the past 12 months[1]. Seems to be a fine time to invest. (Disclaimer: I publish these trends)

[1] http://www.ryan-williams.net/hacker-news-hiring-trends/2016/...

gedrap 2 days ago 0 replies      
This is an interesting example of what might happen if you think that the things which are the most frequently mentioned on HN are the ones which are the most commonly used in production/industry :)

It's a bit dangerous bias/distortion, you can easily trick yourself into thinking that everyone is running everything with docker, soon everyone will be spinning up clusters with tensor flow to compute on their petabytes of data :) (nothing personal, OP, just something I've noticed lately).

Animats 2 days ago 1 reply      
I like Python, but it's gone downhill.

Python was doing just fine until Python's little tin god came up with Python 3 and tried to drive a stake through the heart of Python 2. That backfired, badly; six years on, Python 2 still has far more production use than Python 3. (No, it's not about Unicode. Python 2.6 and later do Unicode just fine. I've written sizeable all-Unicode systems in Python 2.6. It's just that in 3.x, it's the default.)

Coming up next, Python 4, with typing syntax that isn't checked. Ugly typing syntax - some in comments, some as annotations. There's an argument for optional type declarations that are checked, but unchecked declarations are trouble waiting to happen.

The PyPy crowd has brought off a miracle - an optimizing compiler for Python that supports almost all the dynamism of CPython. It took a long time, but they did it. CPython should be retired now, or made to conform to PyPy. But no; the little tin god insists that his CPython defines the language. The PyPy developers struggle to keep up.

The language isn't the worst problem. It's the wildly variable quality of the libraries. The great thing about Go is that it has libraries which are used internally by Google, and thus have been executed billions of times. Python's PyPi (formerly Cheese Shop) has no quality control, and many versions of very similar libraries, each with different bugs. There's no convergence.

aabajian 2 days ago 0 replies      
I was taught Java in college and use it at work, but over the years I've done a little BASIC, Perl, Haskell, Lisp, C and C++. All of these languages were interesting and fulfilled specific use cases, but I couldn't see anything distinctive about them. Moreover, there weren't any ah-ha moments...until I learned Python.

Python is a beautiful language, and what I like to call programming at its purist. It removes the distraction of syntax from the task of problem solving. It's simple enough that a 7 year old can grasp it, and yet powerful enough that Google used it for its TensorFlow's API. Python syntax is so close to pseudocode, that I'll often code a solution in Python, see that it works, and then recode it in Java. It's difficult to describe if you haven't spent 7+ years using Java, but it's way more satisfying debugging Python code than rewriting solutions in Java.

lucb1e 2 days ago 0 replies      
I started using Python because everyone around me was starting to use it about a year ago. By now I'm rather proficient at it and it's replacing my primary language (PHP) to write quick scripts to run from the command line. In a few weeks I'll also be working on a web project in Python (where I'd normally have picked PHP).

I still use PHP and bash a ton, will use Java in school next semester, used C# during my internship, but Python is among my core tools right now. I notice that library support for Python is so, so much better than for PHP, making my life a lot easier at times.

As for Go, I still intend to look at it, at some point in the future. Basically like I intended to look at Python three or four years ago.

Javascript, yeah for in browsers.

Julia? I heard of it but I still think of the girl first and the language second. Never looked at it and don't see it come by that often. Data science you say? I thought R was hot there, a language I was going to look at somewhere in the next few months (my girlfriend will get it in university, good opportunity for me as well).

Jsonzhang 2 days ago 0 replies      
As a JS developer I think python is strong than ever before , it can use not only in web but also in data analysis. The coming Big Data trend can lead extensive use of python.The LIGO Scientific Collaboration announced that they use python when in their first direct detection of gravitational waves.https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/45g8qu/we_are_the_lig...And they are also make some lib of python they used open source in github.https://github.com/ligo-cbcIt is excited , isn't it ? Thanks to these news , I have decided to continue learning python since I break it off two years ago.
basketcasing 1 day ago 1 reply      
Python is the least-worst general purpose imperative not-performance-critical OO scripting language. It has lots of problems (weird scoping, community issues, roundabout docs, `''.join()`, crippled lambda, no variable declarations, some lousy naming, module distribution issues, yet more ways to do string formatting, whitespace-sensitive syntax instead of curlies+semis), but the alternatives have worse problems, so Python is at the top of the heap for its type of language.

I think Python could easily be replaced --- for greenfield projects --- by something better, but there's nothing better right now, and more and more people will keep using Python for that very reason.

monster2control 1 day ago 1 reply      
I've only been using Python for 2 months now. I'm coming from a Ruby, Java, Node background. The things I don't understand about Python and what I miss the most from those other languages is a solid tool chain. From package management down to the test runners. I miss Ruby gems, Bundler, Rack, and Gaurd tools. I miss Maven and the plethora of plugins. I miss NPM.

Pip is just OK. It feels like it's missing something. Could be a simple lack of experience still. I haven't found anything like Gaurd yet and yet to find a replacement for rack and NPM 's simple package.json. There is setup.py but it feels harder and wrapped in mystery still and doesn't work universally the same for Python 2 and 3 which I have been causing some road blocks and extra cycles being wasted.

Most of all I hate the backward compatibility issues of Python 2 to 3. I rarely have issues running older Ruby or Java code in newer versions of the language. It seems ridiculous that it's been a little over 7 years and people are still fighting with issues between Python 2 and 3 and you still need to pick a version to use. Sure you can code around it, but why the interpreter doesn't handle backward compatibility with deprecation statements is just amazing to me. This isn't a new thing. Languages like Java and Ruby do it as do plenty of others I'm sure if you wanted to make a syntax change you can handle the code in the interpreter and issue warnings to uograde them without breaking all old code bases.

But any ways, I digress, I don't think Python is going anywhere. Too many people and companies use it. It's got a lot of good libraries and and if you just start with Python 3 it's language is just like any other programming language. It's got some things you have to get used to that are unique to it but in the end, you can make it do what you need.

I personally think Ruby allows for nicer looking code and readability, and NodeJS has a far better Eco system. Hell, Languages like Elixir feel like a nice mixture of both with the huge added benefits of being highly parallel at the VM layer.

PyPy seems like a better place to invest resources since the JIT can really speed things up.

That's my 2 cents.

BuckRogers 1 day ago 0 replies      
Python2 is not dying, its momentum is the main reason for Python's continued meteoric rise. Python3 is languishing though. At roughly 10% of Python right now but might(?) pick up that slack once Python2 starts to die.

I've always used Python, but I'm starting to wonder if I didn't back the wrong horse. I've been dabbling with Erlang as my side-language for a years, and Elixir is extremely intriguing to me. I'm considering using Ruby for a new project simply because the syntax is closer to Elixir.A Ruby+Elixir shop makes a ton of sense.

I think the better question would be "is Python losing focus?". The answer to that would be yes. Which includes not only the ~8 year Python3 debacle that's ~10% complete from a usage standpoint, but also the Python3 feature soup. They've just added a 4th string formatting method in Python 3.6.[0] I don't even have words for Python3's feature soup, it's absurd in its own right.


hartator 2 days ago 1 reply      
Despite some rifts in the community around 2 vs 3 versions, Python is still widely used, no worries.

My take is Python 3 has done more damage to community than we accept to recognise. Python 3 has taken a strong academic approach to make the language better while being valid made it feels like a regression compared to Python 2. The 'print "abc"' not working anymore without brackets is a good example of it.

sr_banksy 2 days ago 0 replies      
It has massive support and libraries for almost anything imaginable. It's not dying. Yes, the transition from 2 to 3 is a bit of a hiccup, but it's going to be around for a long time!

A tad bit old, but read this: http://www.curiousefficiency.org/posts/2012/10/pythons-futur...

TL;DR: No.

thkim 2 days ago 1 reply      
Unless there is another language that beats Python in terms of simplicity of toolchain, deployment and syntax, Python is not going to die. Very few people care about the performance of a language (this is same as asking whether Intel i5 or i7 is a better choice when most of what you'll be using is Microsoft Word or PowerPoint), and Python provides reasonable and handy solution to that problem as well (pypy).

Bottom line is that performance does not predict whether a language will die or live. That's not what most people care about.

flohofwoe 1 day ago 0 replies      
I've switched to Python a little while ago for the following use-cases, and couldn't be happier:

- Non-performance-critical command line tools for game-data export-pipelines that I previously wrote in C/C++: Python code is usually more compact, and everything I ever needed is in the standard library. If performance is critical I still prefer python to call out to minimal C or C++ tools which do the heavy-lifting.

- Replace native shell-scripts and Windows batch files with portable python scripts that run on Windows, Linux and OSX.

- Stitching together 3D content-creation-tools and command line tools, most DCC tools of have become python-scriptable in recent years.

- Code generation for C/C++ and shader code.

These are all very pragmatic and simple things, I don't care whether my python scripts are 'pythonic' or elegant, and I don't care about the 2 vs 3 debate. Python gets the job done, works everywhere, and I enjoy writing it because of its friendly syntax and powerful standard library.

mpdehaan2 2 days ago 0 replies      
Absolutely not.

Python strikes an amazing balance in being a rapid development but also sustainable language, that makes for maximally maintainable code.

While I can't speak for it's growth in data science, it's widely used in systems programming and web development and web services as well.

Go is simply not as agile, it's a lower level systems tool for "tight" low-level code, yes.

Python has never been a front end language. I still think Javascript is a HORRIBLE language, but that's beside the point.

At least from my experience, it's exactly in the perfect sweet spot of language design for being unexciting and getting massive amounts of work done.

lmm 2 days ago 1 reply      
The moment a language is born is the moment it starts dying. No language lasts forever.

My opinion: Python will outlive the three languages you list. But it's dying outside data science, and maybe even there. Optional typing can't compete with modern type inference, and there is too much dynamism in the existing Python ecosystem (even though it's so rarely used - there's not a monkeypatch culture like in Ruby - it's used often enough that you can't just remove it). But not today, probably not in five years either. In fact with the community finally having rallied around 3.x this is probably the best moment in years to leap into Python.

But yeah, all languages are dying, some faster than others. You have to make your own judgements, and learn general skills so that you're not bound to one particular language (unless you're very confident in that one language).

brianchu 2 days ago 0 replies      
I do a little work in machine learning (as an undergrad). Deep learning specifically is dominated by Python and C++ (Python for the interface, C++/CUDA for the implementation). Theano's interface is in Python. Caffe has C++, Python, and Matlab interfaces (Python and C++ being the most popular in my experience). Tensorflow has C++ and Python interfaces. ipython notebooks started with Python. The odd one out is Torch; its interface is in Lua.

Machine learning also, at least from my academic view, seems to be dominated by C++/Matlab/Java/Python (and things seem to be moving to Python).

But more broadly, you'll have to learn dozens of languages as a programmer anyways. I wouldn't get too caught up in Python vs. other things.

TYPE_FASTER 2 days ago 0 replies      
Python, as a language and a community, seems to focus more on producing code than marketing. This is an observation, not a judgment on Python or other languages.

Look more at what you want to implement, then see if Python makes sense as a language.

droithomme 2 days ago 1 reply      
No. Python is extremely useful and will remain so. However Python has fundamental design problems regarding unicode handling and 2/3 discrepancies that make it challenging to work with in a number of contexts.
746F7475 2 days ago 0 replies      
I'm not quite sure why people are always so concerned about programming languages "dying", like if the language not being popular has anything affect on the applications already using it.

If you are starting your own company or a side project choose a language that a) best suites your needs and b) you know. Unless your goal is to learn a new language you probably don't want to write your business logic in a completely new language just because it's popular at the moment. And outside of stuff you actually have a say in (i.e. stuff you do for your employer) it doesn't matter what language(s) you know as long as you know something that's applicable.

I learned PHP as my first language (well, I wrote some VB stuff for school before that, but I never wrote it on my spare time), after that I went on to JS just before college and in college I learned C#/Java, but also for my web side projects (which I made some money from) I learned Ruby. Now since graduating I've also dabbled in Python and very lately little in Perl6 (just because the syntax looks so nice), but for my actual job I'm mostly working with Python. It's not my favorite language, but my Ruby and JS (as well as general programming knowledge) carries me through the tasks, it's not like I'm in completely different world where I can't function.

My point is as long as you know how to program the language shouldn't matter, obviously jumping from something like Python to C++ is a bigger change than going from Ruby to Python, but it's not imposible and if your employer really just cares about your languages they are either super specialized and doing some weird shit (which might be your thing and then all you can do is to learn that language) or they really don't know what they want/need.

thearn4 2 days ago 1 reply      
> Julia for data science

I work in scientific computing, and while me and my colleagues have all experimented with Julia at some level (and definitely welcome having more options), I don't yet know of anyone who has built any part of their permanent toolchain with it yet.

Are there any notable use cases out in the wild yet (known internal use by an organization, or major FOSS tool or framework)?

dudul 2 days ago 2 replies      
I think it's HN echo chamber. A lot of articles here about new exciting technologies, but when you look at job postings for example this is not the same song.

I'm very excited about Elixir for example. There is a new Elixir blog post/article/github repo posted on HN every day, you would think that Elixir is the new cool thing. Well, not easy to find companies that actually use it.

jay_kyburz 2 days ago 1 reply      
There are a lot of great comments in here already but I'll add my 2c anyhow because it's something I have been thinking a lot about lately.

Python is my absolute favorite language without a doubt.

But Python is dying for ME

I think there is a lot of value in having front and back end code in the same language.

Python is significantly slower than JavaScript and I just don't want to have to run 2x the number of servers to handle the same number of requests.

I host my games on App Engine. Google has no public plans to move Python app engine to Py3. Python 2 EOL is just 5 years away. I move slow - need to start moving now.

--Also while on the topic, let me just rant about how great the Python Standard Library is and how much I hate NPM and the javaScript ecosystem. I really hate having to evaluate 5 ways of doing every little thing. I wish the node folks would start building a batteries included standard library.

mixedCase 2 days ago 0 replies      
Python is very strong in data analysis, as strong as ever in DevOps, and it's very versatile to always see it show up in other areas.

Most of our Python use is for cross-platform mobile development with Kivy and we're happy with it so far. Certainly happier than having to deal with Java and the disgustingly horrendous Android SDK.

noelsusman 2 days ago 1 reply      
Python is dying in much the same way that C is dying, and by that I mean it's not dying at all. I'm no expert on Go or JS but Julia is not even close to being a serious competitor to Python for data science right now. Besides, Julia has a role more similar to R than Python.
nl 2 days ago 2 replies      
Julia for Data Science? Ha!

I think Julia might maybe have a shot at the space Matlab plays in the moment. But I'd define that more as scientific computing than data science.

Does Julia even have a properly supported HBase interface? People are confused about how to connect to SQL Server[1] - until some pretty basic things like that are sorted out I don't think anyone will take it seriously for data science.

Also: http://danluu.com/julialang/

[1] https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/julia-users/BOeyuSlz...

bobby_9x 2 days ago 1 reply      
Go doesn't have anywhere near the amount of libraries or support that we see with Python.

Python isn't being assaulted on any front. We have always had multiple programming languages and some are better than others.

My issue is that we seem to have these fad languages, like Ruby-on-rails. I still remember when it was rammed down our throats on HN around ~2008 and you were instantly down voted if you wanted to objectively talk about it's pros and cons.

Now, all of the same people from that community (which I noticed, are mostly designers, not developers) have jumped ship and moved into Javascript frameworks like Ember.js and node.js.

PHP, while flawed and not cool anymore, is still one of the most popular languages.

Python will be around for a long time.

zanny 2 days ago 1 reply      
I, for one, look forward to the day I have Python in my frontend.

Browser support for <Script type=text/python>! Viva la revolution!

I would need so much less migraine medicine that the pharma industry would lobby against it.

zmanian 2 days ago 1 reply      
The thing you ideally want from a language is the ability to benefit from an ecosystem adding functionality, teaching, open sourcing libraries etc.

The Python ecosystem seems healthy to me. Interesting things are happening in the language around incremental typing and async.

Python seems like the language of choice for binding C and C++ libraries.

Python devs seems widely in demand.

There is definitely a pullback in using Python in performance critical conditions where Go seems to be making huge progress.

EdwardDiego 2 days ago 0 replies      
Mate, you've got to stop taking the social media hype at face value. I remember desperately trying to learn Haskell during my pedagogical years because all of /r/programming was talking about it. Clearly it was the next big thing! In the end I decided that I enjoyed F# more, but since then neither language has been anywhere close to relevant in my career.

I write my back-ends in JVM languages, because the JVM is performant for my use cases, and the ecosystem is very rich. I'm currently liking Kotlin as a better Java, and I dabble with Clojure for fun. Oh, and I can't resist having a jab at the ol' Go-has-no-generics thing. Go has no generics, which leads to type-unsafe upcasting to interface{} or copy and paste. Both of which are shite.

I write my data science code in Scala (on account of how that's the nicest Spark API, although the Python one looks good).

Yep, JS for the front-end when you're doing heavily dynamic sites, but if it's a slightly-less-than static CRUD site? Django is ideal, free CRUD interface, no fucking around with the tool and fad filled hell-hole of modern JS development.

(I must admit to some hypocrisy because despite the above statement, I quite like React).

cblock811 6 hours ago 0 replies      
If people still use PHP I'm sure Python will be fine.
lacker 2 days ago 0 replies      
No. Python is the third most popular language on Github, for example. Ahead of either Go or Julia.


The Python 2 vs Python 3 debacle has stalled the adoption of new features into Python for quite a while now. Nevertheless, Python has a very nice design at its core. Maybe it doesn't need that many new features.

readme 1 day ago 0 replies      
No, python's strong. It's just not a fad anymore?

Is PHP still cool? Not really. Yes, there was a day when it was. But guess what: from http://php.net/usage.php PHP: 244M sites, 2.1M IP addresses -- sites powered by PHP.

Python's not going anywhere. It might go out of style, but it's not going out of use.

... they are still trying to replace retiring cobol programmers.

thebouv 2 days ago 0 replies      
There are lots of tools and even lots of toolboxes.

What do you like to do? What can you find work for?

If you know other languages, you can shift easily. It's not like you have to invest years into a new language if you're already proficient with others. You're not going to forget if/else logic, what functions do, or object oriented basics. Most languages just have their own syntactic sugar on all of that.

Learn Python.

Learn Node.

Learn Julia.

Be flexible.

mindcrime 2 days ago 0 replies      
COBOL and FORTRAN aren't dead, and you think Python is going to die anytime soon? I don't see it. For the most part, technologies never really "die" per-se.

Now as to the question of what stack to invest in from a career standpoint... my guess is that Python would still give you a very good ROI. Look how popular it is in the machine learning / data science world, for example. I'd bet there will be more jobs for Python coders than for Julia coders for at least another 5 or 10 years or more.

But hey, hedge your bets... invest in something for today like Python, but start spending a few cycles here and there on Julia and Go. Flexibility helps in this field. In my 17 some odd years doing this stuff, I've gone from focusing on C++ to mostly Java, then to Python, back to Java, then on to Groovy, and now am using Java, Groovy and Python. But I'm also spending some time on R, as well as Julia, Go, and Rust, just to stay current.

teekert 1 day ago 0 replies      
I just got into Python, as a biologist. I'm happy I did it because now the entire large healthcare company I work for (or at least the research department) is switching from Matlab to Python. I have never heard the name Julia before here. Could be because I'm a biologist.
CuriouslyC 2 days ago 1 reply      
Python isn't going anywhere. No other language has such a rich set of tools for the complete analytic workflow from data acquisition and transformation, through analysis to end product creation (i.e. web/application development). I think in terms of an exploratory/prototyping language it is going to be at the top of the heap for a long time.

Julia is an extremely interesting language, in some ways it is more "pythonic" than Python (at least in regards to consistency), while also being surprisingly lisp-like. Unfortunately, the library ecosystem is still extremely immature. Within ten or fifteen years, I expect Julia will take over pretty much all of Python's niches.

As for systems/backend code, I'd bet on Scala over go; much more interesting language, and able to leverage the massive java ecosystem.

eva1984 2 days ago 0 replies      
Julia for data science is not as nearly as true. The landscape of data science or machine learning is shifting so fast because of the recent deep learning revolution, which, IMHO, makes some Julia's featured improvements a little awkward. If it anyway has to delegate the computation to something like GPU, then the goodie Julia has promised, like auto vectorization, are less important.

JS for frontend...Is python ever used in frontend?

Only Go is worthy mention here. Yes, Go has some goodies in terms of performance, so it will eat up some Python's share in server-side programming, which I won't deny.

TL;DR: Python is on rise as the dominant language for data science, which I didn't think any other language can challenge it in short time. It will still be used/favored in light to middle complexity web services depends on tastes.

zmmmmm 2 days ago 0 replies      
My suggestion is not to ask not whether your favorite language is dying. Ask why you are so worried about that.

If you plan a career of any length of time technology you will have to up sticks and move to new language countless times. In fact, in some ways doing that is one of your core skills. Embrace it and enjoy it. Perfect your ability to digest and consume a new language complete with its idiomatic quirks and warts and its various ecosystem of tools and frameworks.

In terms of a choice of a language for an actual project, Python is so established that there is basically zero risk in starting a project in Python now. There is exactly zero chance that it's going to be abandoned and you will be left without a viable community of support any time in the next decade. So if Python solves your problem today just use it.

Paul_S 2 days ago 0 replies      
Python pretty much replaced Perl in everything yet Perl is alive and well today. So, no.
hyperion2010 2 days ago 0 replies      
I heard an anecdote from a colleague who was surveying undergraduate CS courses. The prof was explaining what the course was going to be about and said that the students could choose any language they wanted to complete the work something like C or Java or anything didn't have libraries for everything. A student wanted to know if this meant they couldn't use python. Prof said, ya, you probably shouldn't use python for this, too tempting to cheat. Grumbling, so prof asks, how many people actually know C, Java, or something like that? ~50% hands. How many only know Python? ~40% hands. These were CS majors, in an upper level CS course.
spiralpolitik 2 days ago 0 replies      
All the interns we've recently interviewed all have Java and Python skills so neither language is dying in any sense of the word. In fact I would probably say that those (plus Javascript) are probably the languages new programmers are learning first.

Both languages are however going through transition periods, with Python the 2.x to 3.x migration is still dragging on and shows no sign of ending. Java is in a period of libraries rebasing themselves around Java 8 and Java 9 will similarly be a disruptive release once project Jigsaw finally lands. But both languages will continue to be around for a long time.

stray 2 days ago 0 replies      
Some people will always flock to Teh Shiny -- but python isn't going anywhere.
emmelaich 2 days ago 1 reply      
It's merely plateau'd. That's not something that brings news.

If you graph the popularity I would say the derivative gives you newsworthiness (golang, julia) but the integral gives you the popularity.

simonw 2 days ago 0 replies      
I forget where I saw it, but someone said Python is the second-best language for pretty much everything, which is why it's such a useful language to have in your tool chest.
smegel 2 days ago 1 reply      
> Go for systems and backend

Certain sorts of systems and certain sorts of backends maybe. There is a reason people prefer dynamic languages for web based backends for example - the amount of text mangling and arbitrary data structure manipulation becomes a serious headache in a compiled language, be it Go, C/C++ or what-have-you.

I work on a large system written entirely in Python -we've considered introducing Go to speed up certain processes, but Python will remain the foundation for the foreseeable future.

devlim 1 day ago 0 replies      
For the past few years, many say java is dead, ruby is dead, nobody want C and etc, still today, individuals and business still continue using those language and invest new framework/plugin/tools for those language. So i pretty sure python is not dead. 'Dead' is for framework when community move from one framework to another.
ausjke 2 days ago 0 replies      
Python is the new BASIC these days.
brianolson 2 days ago 0 replies      
Python is fine. I just came off a job in it and interviewing around saw a couple other jobs in it. I see it competing with Ruby and server-side-js. Python is more mature than either, and has a different flavor that will appeal to some people. Choose your environment to taste.OTOH, job[-2] was switching away from Python due to run speed concerns, towards Go. But while the application would be less Python, the 'devops' system glue would still be all Python.
tanlermin 2 days ago 1 reply      
Let's look at Julia for example. Its currently gaining steam in numerics, machine learning other technical computing areas...I hypothesize this is compound growth.

For general computing, what would happen when it gains static compilation and can be distributed easily on Linux/Windows, Mobile and then web (with Emscripten/web assembly).

Then its as expressive if not more than python, easy to read/write and faster (unless its written poorly).

bliti 2 days ago 0 replies      
No, it's not dying. It has simply gone enterprise. Which means it is no longer "cool". Python is a good glue language that runs everywhere.
dperetti 2 days ago 0 replies      
Python is not dying, it's mature and stable.
mheiler 1 day ago 0 replies      
I'd say it does well compared to other languages:https://www.google.com/trends/explore#q=python%20tutorial%2C...
datashaman 1 day ago 0 replies      
Over the last year (for the first time) Python surpassed PHP in popularity and seems to be gaining on C#.

Python has never been more alive, IMO.


dcolgan 2 days ago 1 reply      
I play around with NodeJS and front end frameworks like React for my own side projects, but all of my paying client work is made with good ol Django. It just does so many things well and is very mature. I recommend for production code using libraries that have a strong community and have been around for a while so that they don't keep changing all the time.
coldtea 1 day ago 0 replies      
For the frontend, and asynchronous server backend (Node), JS won hands round. I don't see Python getting there.

More systems and backend use Python (including at Google) than Go.

An insignificant amount of people use (or will use in the next 5 years) Julia for data science. Python (and R, Matlab) rule there almost completely.

MichaelBurge 2 days ago 0 replies      
There's projects where you're trying something new, and there's projects where you're trying to get something done. I recommend keeping the two separate, and for the second type using whatever you feel most productive with. Mixing the two just increases the risk of your project for no real benefit.
ryan-allen 2 days ago 0 replies      
I don't think so, it seems to be the go-to language for scientific stats work, maybe for web development it is trending down though?

Udacity's stats courses use R and Python, a friend of mine who works in environmental research, it is all they use! Google still use it heavily as far as I know?

gkya 2 days ago 1 reply      
In case of Go, it is a dead baby, the language and the tooling suffer from dogmatism and inflexibility. Python is stable and good now, it does not need to change that much. Thus, those who mix up version numbers with stock prices and become happy when they increase switch away and complain. Ignore them.
transfire 2 days ago 0 replies      
Believe it or not COBOL is still a thing. So it is doubtful Python will ever die die. At least not for a very long time. But, and I think this answer is probably more to the real spirit of your question, one could reasonably argue that Python has reached it's peak.
melted 2 days ago 0 replies      
Python was never a front end language, and it was never a systems/backend language, at least not a good one. Its main strength is that "batteries are included" and you can get something usable going really quickly. None of these purported challengers has that strength.
USNetizen 2 days ago 0 replies      
Quite contrarily, I've seen an increasing amount of Python usage in enterprise software, especially analytics applications. More and more job postings are starting to mention Python, and the web frameworks associated with it (Django, Flask, etc.) are more popular than ever.
hoodoof 2 days ago 0 replies      

Python is 5th place after the three C's and one J.

edem 2 days ago 0 replies      
You might want to check [This].(http://www.itjobswatch.co.uk/jobs/uk/python.do) It doesn't look like dying to me.
davidw 1 day ago 0 replies      
No, it's just pining for the fjords.

People still use Perl and Tcl and Cobol. You'll be fine with Python if it's a good fit for what you're doing. It's a solid language with a solid community.

mrdrozdov 2 days ago 0 replies      
First there was Perl. Now there's Python. Until there's another powerful scripting language that starts with a P, I think Python is going to be safe. That being said, rumor is that Perl is back on the rise...
ninjakeyboard 2 days ago 0 replies      
Python is used in academia (eg SICP) so it's not going anywhere. Consider it's a google approved language like Java and Go and Javascript. I can't see python going anywhere.
chm 2 days ago 1 reply      
Not in my sphere of activity. I have a friend who recently started his PhD... and is moving all of his development from C/C++/Fortran to Python. Numerical code even - he just doesn't want to bother.
luckydude 2 days ago 0 replies      
I'm a guy who has funded a bunch of tcl development. You think python is dead? Wow. Python seems pretty alive to me.
drvortex 2 days ago 1 reply      
Julia? Now you're just making me laugh. Julia has a lot of potential but won't even begin to scratch Python for about 5 more years. Scientific programming is very very addicted to its tools. There is a reason even SciPy (for Python) is compiled Fortan (yes Fortan!) code. R is king for data science and the only reason it lost ground to Python is that R is a one trick pony compared to jack of all trades Python.
Dowwie 1 day ago 0 replies      
I love Python and the community behind it.
shiftoutbox 2 days ago 0 replies      
Noooo freebsd and Python are dying , zombie-Linux-Javascript-Jesus will save us with docker on mint .
ddw 2 days ago 0 replies      
Django, Flask, PySpark, tons of solid GIS stuff, IPython Notebook, Ansible, etc. etc. So no.
yahyaheee 2 days ago 0 replies      
The practicality of Python will keep it around for the foreseeable future
no1youknowz 2 days ago 1 reply      
I don't know. As a single developer house, I have a behemoth of a project.

Started out with PHP, then used Python for the backend (php sucks as daemons). Expanded to NodeJS for real-time elements. Used JS exclusively for the front-end. When I found python not working as it should be for heavy concurrent tasks, I used Go.

So PHP, Python, NodeJS, Go, JS all for 1 project. Couple this with NoSQL, Postgres, Varnish, Nginx and being a linux sys-admin and throw in clustering, security and a whole lot of other things. Wow, something has to give.

4 months ago decided to learn Go. Now I'm almost at the point where I have a JS front-end and Go backend.

I regularly see complaints about Go having issues. I don't see this as the case. I went from PHP/Codeigniter MVC backend including sessions, validation, integration with nodejs using historyJS and a small JS footprint for the front-end SPA...

To a couple of days worth of work which involved grabbing GIN (the framework), make it do MVC, put in JWT, use GIN for validation and Gorilla/websockets for real-time.

There are many blogs, code samples on github, for a lot of different use-cases or to get the gist of how something is supposed to work. I havent yet found myself not being able to do what I need with Go.

I think what is the sticking point. A lot of developers want to import packages and just build the core of their app. I don't know. I find myself WANTING to build everything out because then I can trust that it will work and work in production. So if a library isn't available. Fine, I'll just build my own.

In fact, the net benefit for me, was that I no longer need to think about scaling my entire application. I made every facet of my old application into micro services that can now be clustered. In addition, the overhead for running Go is now very minimal. The outlay of $$$ each month dramatically went down vs running PHP/Python.

Finally yes, I understand that if I wanted to double down with Python or NodeJS, I could have probably achieved the same result. I'm sure someone will reply saying, why didn't you use X or why didn't you use Y. The fact is, I used Go. The barrier to entry to learn it was minimal to none. I hit the ground running with Go on day 3. Go has paid back lots of dividends and it continues to do so. All my new development is with Go and I don't miss any of the other languages and not only that, upgrading from 1.4 to 1.6 hasn't bothered me in the slightest. I hope that trend continues with 1.7 and 1.8 and beyond. Oh and getting http2, better GC and other goodies to boot. May that trend also continue.

I think in the next 5 years, things will be different. I think if Go starts to match the number of libraries Python has, it will be different. At this point, yes, Python may well be dying.

d1ffuz0r 2 days ago 0 replies      
No. Python is rather getting stronger and going enterprise than dying
zoffix222 1 day ago 0 replies      
Yes. Join the club.

Sincerely,Perl Programmers :)

oniMaker 2 days ago 0 replies      
The code written to control the LIGO detectors was all python.
sdfin 2 days ago 0 replies      
How is Python doing as a replacement for Bash scripting?
majestik 2 days ago 1 reply      
>>> Is Python dying?


markstanford 2 days ago 0 replies      
No we use python a lot, we are a python shop
SixSigma 1 day ago 0 replies      
Netcraft confirms it
crimsonalucard 1 day ago 0 replies      
Don't trust any of the statements here. People are just responding with qualitative predictions and observations of the tiny little programming microcosms they dwell in.

No one here can produce an accurate prediction of the stock market anymore than they can predict the future of python. The thing with stocks though is at the very least they can look at a pricing trend line. People responding to you here aren't even looking at any quantitative data.

See the data here:


Is python dying?

The data says "Maybe?"

Ask HN: Best way for monitoring Node.js in production?
4 points by wsieroci  7 hours ago   1 comment top
sysk 5 hours ago 0 replies      
Hey Wiktor,

First, you really shouldn't use forever or pm2 in production. May I suggest you use something like Dokku[0] or Deis[1] (if you are planning to scale to more than one server) to deploy your apps?

Dokku is really quick to setup and will save you a lot of time and trouble in the long term. Setup takes only 5 minutes and the learning curve is pretty low (maybe 30-60 minutes to be productive).

NewRelic[2] and DataDog[3] are popular for monitoring though they're not open source. Nagios[4] is open source and also popular.

[0] https://github.com/dokku/dokku

[1] http://deis.io

[2] http://newrelic.com

[3] https://www.datadoghq.com

[4] https://www.nagios.org

Ask HN: What's your take on Product Hunt?
8 points by HeyShayBY  14 hours ago   12 comments top 11
thecupisblue 7 hours ago 1 reply      
I like it. It is a great community with a bunch of people who love creating cool stuff, a lot of cool products to explore, a lot of new launches happen there and when I need a product I go to PH to search if something exists first, then google. Why? Because google is full of shit-tier SEO spam in most cases.
brudgers 7 hours ago 0 replies      
I doubt it will compensate for a lack of product-market fit for a startup. For a small business it might offer marketing value on a purely risk/reward analysis...that is it might average out across many companies that the total value of inorganic spikes exceeds the total cost of pursuing it.

Since it's a hype machine I doubt it, but it's possible. Mostly, I think it is a case of:

 We must do something. Product Hunt is something. Therefore, we must do it.

justhw 6 hours ago 0 replies      
I used to go there in the early days. The UI was intuitive and neat products used to get hunted daily. The last straw for me was the ebooks that showed you How To Launch on Product Hunt. These ebooks and lists were like a whack-a-mole popping up every day getting voted to the top. Also how you can't comment unless you're invited by an insider killed it for me.
jekbao 4 hours ago 0 replies      
I stopped viewing it after the UI revamped. It sets me thinking when using it, like solving a mini puzzle.

I can't recommend enough the book Don't Make Me Think.

AznHisoka 8 hours ago 0 replies      
A time waster. Also agree with other commenter: whoever redesigned it deserves to be fired - what an unintuitive navigational mess. its a conglomerate mess with no consistent theme amongst the products. nobody looks for tech or podcasts. We look for Specific markets like productivity podcasts or marketing tech.
DKnoll 8 hours ago 0 replies      
I can't speak to it as a company either... but as an observer I'm pretty disappointed with it.

Unaffiliated people are prevented from commenting, meaning that every posting has a flood of positive, and completely useless comments.

Great site for astroturf, terrible for actually vetting a product.

lsiunsuex 14 hours ago 0 replies      
As a list of resources or as a company trying to get exposure?

As a list of resources I think it's great. Often, I've never heard of any day to day new items on there. Some are interesting, some I have no need for and some I could use some day.

I can't speak to being on there as a company but as I said above - I've never heard of or seen so much of what gets submitted to it - it could help get the word out.

relaunched 9 hours ago 0 replies      
It was this cycle's version of being featured on TechCrunch...now it's akin to being featured on TechCrunch after Arrington left.
iDemonix 13 hours ago 0 replies      
I enjoyed it before the rebrand, now I can't be bothered to wade through it. Before it was a real easy snapshot of the community interest, now it's some weird design all mashed together.
askafriend 12 hours ago 0 replies      
Not worth my time. It's incredibly boring.
PaulHoule 14 hours ago 0 replies      
Ask HN: Best minimal CSS Framework for side project
11 points by lormayna  18 hours ago   20 comments top 8
franciscop 14 hours ago 4 replies      
Hi lormayna, I'm the creator of Picnic CSS, thanks for considering it! If you don't mind me asking, why did you consider using Picnic and why wouldn't you choose using it? I'm trying to improve it constantly and I'd really appreciate your opinion from the point of view of "learning web development" (:

If you have any question you can just reach me here or on github

andrei-m-visan 17 hours ago 1 reply      
I use Pure CSS from Yahoo. It is very light and easy to use.http://purecss.io
petepete 18 hours ago 1 reply      
Skeleton, perhaps.


mping 16 hours ago 0 replies      
http://iamsurface.com pure css material, not updated in a while but looks great and has modals with pure csshttps://imperavi.com/kube/css/ almost not minimal but pretty coolhttp://jxnblk.com/gravitons/ really minimal
rgovind 9 hours ago 0 replies      
Tangentially related, I want to draw a (potentially non-responsive) layout and then have CSS generated for me. I am hoping my development time will be faster. Is there a good website for this?
smonff 17 hours ago 1 reply      
http://knacss.com/ is very interesting but the documentation is French only :(
thrilleratplay 15 hours ago 0 replies      
I use http://www.basscss.com/. Version 8 was just released which was restructured into standalone modules. Use what you need.
Ask HN: Positions Available for AB Test Development / Personalization?
3 points by abtestdev  10 hours ago   1 comment top
pclark 6 hours ago 0 replies      
this sounds very inline with what my growth team is building at adroll.

would love to chat: plc@adroll.com

Ask HN: Would you recommend hired.com or similar?
5 points by globba22  15 hours ago   8 comments top 7
hashkb 13 hours ago 1 reply      
Former Hired engineer- do it, it works. Keep in mind (as a candidate), you are in demand, so don't give up that leverage. If you're a great candidate, you'll get a great salary. Also- clear your schedule.

As an employer- be prepared to make competitive offers. The top candidates are getting interview requests from ~30 employers, including ones with brand name recognition.

aprdm 10 hours ago 0 replies      
They didn't accept me in London ( I do currently live & work in London)

I think it's because I need a Tier 2 visa sponsorship... I do have 5 years of experience and seem to be very employable as I get a lot of recruiters outside hired.

rgovind 4 hours ago 0 replies      
I believe that you have to pass a programming test upfront. I know people who flunked the test but still got a good job outside. So, while they may be good, you can also by pass them
MalcolmDiggs 4 hours ago 0 replies      
I'd definitely recommend Hired. The offers are real, the companies are legit; it's a very good use of your time.
sheraz 9 hours ago 0 replies      
Fantastic service. I went through a batch last fall, and all the interviews where with good companies and smart teams. I think in 4 weeks I had about 20-something interviews.

It was my first time, and it really helped me gauge myself in the market.

Highly recommended if your skills match-up.

wan23 12 hours ago 0 replies      
I have done hired.com twice and though I ended up taking different jobs both times, it was a really good experience. A lot of companies came in with offers around the salary I requested, and they were all senior roles.
edimaudo 14 hours ago 0 replies      
If you have a tech background then you should be fine.
Ask HN: How much programming experience you need to become a data scientist?
17 points by HeyShayBY  1 day ago   8 comments top 5
drallison 1 day ago 0 replies      
If you are serious about this question, you should begin by specifying what "data scientist" means in this context. Otherwise, whatever answers your query engenders will be lost in the noise.
fenier 8 hours ago 0 replies      
It really depends on if you are only responsible for analysis, or for gathering data and analysis.

The former is more math focused, the later is a pretty solid blend of Math and Comp Sci / DB work.

hellofunk 17 hours ago 0 replies      
I have read that it is much more important to have a strong mathematical background than a strong programming background to really be good at data science. Many data science positions in the world are looking for individuals who specialized in statistics and related math fields in school.
shoo 1 day ago 3 replies      
i've heard it characterised something like this: you need to program better than the average statistician, and apply statistics better than the average programmer.
Ask HN: Modern software development is killing my passion. What do I do?
29 points by burnoutbytech  1 day ago   10 comments top 6
eecks 1 day ago 1 reply      
> Rewriting code because some new X framework is supposedly better

You obviously should not be doing this. Who makes this call?

greenyoda 1 day ago 1 reply      
There's still a lot of programming out there that's not web or app programming (e.g., on the back-end side). Also, in the enterprise world, there's much less chasing of cool new web frameworks or languages. For example, there's nothing cool in the web sites where I do my banking or stock trades.
wprapido 1 day ago 0 replies      
steering away from web might do the trick. try developing and marketing your own products / services, where you are not forced to use the latest framework, rather valued and consequently paid for value your software brings and problems it solves. as of burn out, take a sabbatical if you can afford it
tmaly 1 day ago 0 replies      
pick one tool/framework and stick with it till you can write web apps like writing a letter. its better to have one good tool than dancing around the mirad of new frameworks.
YeGoblynQueenne 1 day ago 0 replies      
I can only say this to you:

No, no, you're not alone [1]

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9jg4ekLG9Zo

J_Darnley 6 hours ago 0 replies      
Quit and let someone else have your job.
Ask HN: Help with Choosing a Doctor?
9 points by tekram  1 day ago   10 comments top 3
lastofus 1 day ago 2 replies      
I recently moved to another state and decided I need to find a doc. I've had the hardest time trying to find a doc, but at the same time I don't have a large social network local to the area to draw upon.

My concerns in order of importance:

* Does a doc take my insurance

* Are they with in a 20min driving radius

* Are they taking new patients

* Are they not terrible at their job

* Are they remotely personable

* Differentiating between different GP specialties was a bit confusing (internal medicine, family practice, etc)

With 20-30 or so docs in the area to choose from, I'm just going to have to roll the dice and see if things work out. Anything to help make this choice easier would be awesome.

socalnate1 1 day ago 1 reply      
How about being able to assign a value to certain attributes, and then recommend the highest "scoring" doctors?

For instance, accepting my insurance is incredibly important (100 points), being the same gender as me is a somewhat important (25 points), having a doctor under 45 is important to me (35 points), speaking a language other than English isn't important at all (0 points), etc, etc.

I am effectively applying this sort of algorithm now when choosing a doctor, but it would be nice to have it explicit and faster than looking up all the information on each doctors page.

staunch 1 day ago 1 reply      
Make it easy to browse the data and see how they choose.
Ask HN: What are the common pitfalls/problems of Single Page App's?
10 points by rajangdavis  1 day ago   10 comments top 6
cweagans 1 day ago 0 replies      
Speaking as a backend dev who generally avoids writing client-side code, the biggest problem that I've had is figuring out the "right" way to build the fucking thing. The JS fatigue is real.
lollipop25 1 day ago 0 replies      
- Angular doesn't enforce a convention. This gives you flexibility at the cost of zero convention. Developers tend to abuse this flexibility "because they can do it this way instead of that". Choose a convention among all the methods possible, then stick with it.

- Angular can be hard to debug when using some architectures. Two-way binding is pretty hard to track down. Scope inheritance is also a pain, especially with nested controllers, or when devs just stick everything to the root scope and expect it to be there when it doesn't at times. Even tools like Batarang and Inspector can be a pain to use.

- Long-running SPA's tend to accumulate unreleased memory if not managed properly. When stuff like this happens, worst case scenario is to have the user reload the page and lose state. Not taking this seriously, the browser may crash. You don't want this to happen in the middle of an operation, like say, a payment.

- State management is also a pain to work with. I often hear our devs talk about "invalid state". How can it be invalid? That's unless not all changes are accounted for. This is where the Flux architecture shines, as it isolates state in one location, away from the moving parts, and state only mutates via one mechanism - actions.

- It's huge size. One issue with Angular is that it uses too much boilerplate code, most of which is because of the structure and dependency injection mechanisms. Minifiers can only do so much to lessen the size, and not sure if Rollup can do much against these helper structures.

k__ 18 hours ago 0 replies      
In my experience SPA load rather fast. Only the first load and some crazy animations are really an issue.

And the first load issue can be circumvented with pre-rendering the first page on the server.

I tried this with React and it worked like a charm. It even went so far, that the whole page doubled for SPA and complete-server-side app, when JS was deactivated.

eecks 1 day ago 1 reply      
If you need to load everything up front then you might need a loading page like Gmail has
bikamonki 1 day ago 1 reply      
1. Perceived render speed. You'll spend a lot of time tweaking your views (nested ones in particular) to load and render as fast as good old HTML rendered on the server.2. You already mentioned: SEO. But if this app of yours is behind a login that is not a problem.
possibleNoob 1 day ago 0 replies      
Curious, how are Web workers helping you counter UI Thrashing?
Deploy a .onion Site in Less Than 5 minutes
71 points by freddiearch  2 days ago   19 comments top 10
Ao7bei3s 2 days ago 1 reply      
This is pretty badly done. Dear freddiearch, it's ok if you know that it's low-quality and no real effort has gone into it (as you yourself have said), but then please don't post it on HN and waste everyone elses time.

Notes/suggestions, in the interest of helping you get better at Ansible. I hope you find them helpful:

* It leaves your Apache bound on all interfaces, exposing where your files are really hosted. Security fail. (And because of the port conflict I doubt it even works in its current state.)

* It doesn't even work, due to the double "command" in "add keys". Only the second one will actually be run. (It's obvious you never tested on a fresh system. Learn about Vagrant next. It also has super-easy ansible integration. That fits the scenario really well too. Wouldn't that be awesome? "vagrant up" from any machine, wait a minute, and you have an .onion server in the Tor network?)

* Please spend 10 minutes and read the module list at https://docs.ansible.com/ansible/modules_by_category.html completely and use them. If you have to use "command" tasks (seldom the case), at least implement "changed_when" and think about if you need "when" and "failed_when". Also consider --check mode. You used command in cases where you could have used: apt, apt_repository, apt_key, service,

* Use the long key id in the --recv command too. The short will work even when there are conflicts, but it'll leave the additional (probably malicious) key in your local keyring, which may or may not confuse you later.

* The apparmor restart should be done in a handler, conditionally the config actually being changed. It also should use the "service" task.

* /home isn't the right place. Read the Filesystem Hierarchy Standard. Put the directory somwhere under /var or /srv.

* Add some blank lines for readability.

* As it is, your play isn't really reusable and not modular at all. It's ok since your intention clearly was just to show how easy it was to get Tor running. But if you want you could still turn it into a role.

* "state=directory owner=debian-tor mode=0700 recurse=yes" isn't really a good idea; it'll make all files executable too.

Getting automation right (whether via ansible, puppet, or whatever) requires careful attention to detail.

hbz 2 days ago 0 replies      
Why even do this in ansible? Your heavy reliance on command instead of the provided ansible modules makes it more of a bash script.
hjek 2 days ago 1 reply      
Nice idea. Looking at the script, it seems it's fetching packages specifically for Ubuntu Trusty. If the script is only for a specific version of Ubuntu, it might make sense to write that somewhere in the readme (or better, make it work for a wider range of distros/OS's)
detaro 2 days ago 0 replies      
You really shouldn't use apache default configs, since they probably leak info about your server and your users via /server-status
freddiearch 2 days ago 1 reply      
You make a good point. I did think that in retrospect. Just wanted to develop my skills further in Ansible really.
efesak 2 days ago 0 replies      
I use https://hub.docker.com/r/goldy/tor-hidden-service/ just 2 commands) ... it just simply works
kripp78 1 day ago 0 replies      
Hello. OK I'm not up today in how all this works or if I'm down loading the right things or not.I read it but I just don't get it. I just want to get to the deep/dark website.would you help me on how to get there please. Thank you
r0muald 2 days ago 0 replies      
That's really cool. I think we need more of this kind of easily hackable resources.
freddiearch 2 days ago 0 replies      
Efesak looks like a cool tool. Ryanlol also nifty script.

r0muald thanks!

Thanks for all the positive responses to this. Hopefully i'll have time to work on some server hardening and similar improvements soon.

wehadfun 2 days ago 1 reply      
Could someone explain what this does.know apacheknow ubuntuDont know .onionDont know ymlDont know ansible
Ask HN: Your thoughts about online developer recruitment tools like HackerRank?
51 points by ninadmhatre  1 day ago   48 comments top 12
onion2k 1 day ago 8 replies      
In my opinion they test the wrong things for the majority of software developers. Most people who write code don't need the ability to solve especially hard algorithmic problems. Ranking solutions to hard problems is probably useful if you're Google but there aren't many Googles out there. We like to think that we're solving hard problems (and actually, on HN, we're more likely to be), but most companies aren't. A large amount of software is literally just a CRUD form and a database.

For the overwhelming majority of software businesses it's far more useful to know if someone is disciplined enough to use good variable names than whether they can write an algorithm to count the number of edges in an acyclic graph.

zippy786 2 hours ago 0 replies      
I've been in the industry a while and if a company/recruiter uses tools like HackerRank for recruitment, I simply ignore them and decide not to move forward. I think we as a software industry have been following a bad hiring practice. If you can't tell your fellow colleague is smart enough by having a tech-talk or giving something that's not a test-format, there is something wrong with the process or people doing the hiring. Also, it is hilarious how many times an engineer has to prove himself/herself, and after being hired at these places I've also seen that the people who do the hiring are not that good/competent themselves, although this may vary in some other place.
jakozaur 1 day ago 3 replies      
I haven't used HackerRank, but got experience with similar product Codility (https://codility.com/).

My experience:

1. Works great if engineers apply to you, much less if you try to poach a engineer from great company.

2. Great resumes or credentials sometimes don't correlate with great performance. Especially there are hidden self-trained engineers, who can build great products, but never had CS degree or worked in well known company. It can be competitive advantage if you can give standardized test to everyone who apply, when most companies wouldn't bother to invite them for an interview.

3. Still they can save a lot of time for both ends:

a) candidate usually prefer to spend one hour on an online test than to take a day off for full day of interviews

b) company can offer this test to anyone, time of senior developers is usually too costly to offer regular interview to anyone

4. It is not a replacement for regular interview process. You still have to interview candidate. Most of the time, signal from this tests is clear if they are used properly (e.g. give mix of tasks with different difficulties).

eisokant 1 day ago 1 reply      
I think HackerRank is a great platform for challenges but I personally believe it only shows a small part of your skill set. I am a developer myself but also have hired a lot of engineers in my career. I believe that looking at existing projects you've done on Github gives a much better overview of your coding style, knowledge and your ability to learn. It also exposes some of the biases I know that we have in our own company (for instance, we know that if you have a functional programming background you'll fit in much better in our code base and team, even though we don't do functional programming).

All of this said, I think HackerRank is a great place to improve your skills in solving interview challenges and algorithmic problems.

Disclosure: I am a co-founder at source{d} where we analyse all git based projects to understand developers through their code.

escap 1 day ago 0 replies      
"Programming competitions correlate negatively with being good on the job" see https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9324209 for the more nuanced actual result.
blablablame 1 day ago 0 replies      
I've been asked to do a few of these a while ago while searching for a job. Don't remember if I did HackerRank though.

I don't really like it. I scored well in most that I did, but as some folks mentioned, they either test the wrong things, or have horrible UI's.

Also, there are some that end up having multiple choice answers that are really badly done (bad question syntax, having 2 correct answers, outdated questions, etc).

I personally refuse to do any of them nowadays, even if I am really interested in the company. I just can't justify the time and (in case of badly done) frustration so companies can' save a bit of time.

gcb0 1 day ago 1 reply      
their code editor is a joke.

ui doesn't make it clear switching tasks will lose your work, and to make it worse they silently break the clipboard so you can't "cheat" thus preventing you from storing your code anywhere. makes experimentation really awful as you have to keep commenting the whole thing every try

madsonlife 1 day ago 1 reply      
I failed an interview a couple days ago, from a hackerrank challenge.The tools was awesome, but could be better.I got really nervous, and could clear the challenge 10 minutes after the stipulated time in fact. One of the things that made me most nervous was that i was not able to debug my code as i can easily on chrome console. The "click to run your code" gives you a bit of a harder time. (my opinion
arisAlexis 1 day ago 0 replies      
I think these tools underestimate the impact stress has on coders. I would dare to say more than 30% of ability can be impacted. Since coders rarely write code under extreme stress unless they work for stock market apps I don't see the point of having such a huge confounder.
asymmetric 1 day ago 1 reply      
I didn't know about HackerRank. The concept seems quite similar to Stockfighter. Any idea how it compares?
EvanPlaice 18 hours ago 0 replies      
Hacker Rank is to hiring what Tinder would be to dating if profiles were made up of genital pics and length/depth measurements.

It'll give you a clear measurement of a candidates ability to do CS homework and not much else.

kbuck 1 day ago 2 replies      
I've been on both sides of HackerRank. I helped develop/configure a HackerRank test for candidates for my team, and recently I've taken a HackerRank test while applying for a position at another company.

HackerRank is just a tool. Its effectiveness depends on how well the company interviewing candidates configures it. I think algorithmic questions are the most popular, but it's completely configurable; you can have it ask whatever you want. It's also possible to manually review submissions. When we used it to evaluate candidates, we'd manually review the code for candidates that scored somewhere in the middle of the range. Depending on what their submission looked like, we'd decide whether or not to proceed with them. (HackerRank lets you see each version of the code attempted by the user, in addition to the final solution submitted.) We actually found it particularly efficient at finding good candidates; there was a very high correlation between interview performance and HackerRank score. If properly configured, HackerRank makes it easier to identify good candidates, which is (IMO) a good thing for everyone. For companies, it means that they spend less time interviewing bad candidates, and for candidates themselves, it means that they might be able to get their foot in the door somewhere where they'd usually get blocked by the "resume scanner" filter (since the company isn't risking engineer time/productivity to send out a simple HackerRank evaluation).

That said, HackerRank isn't perfect. My biggest complaint is the lack of feedback for some failure modes, most notably segfaults and failing non-sample testcases. For segfaults, it simply returns "segmentation fault" and you're expected to be able to find the problem (a similar tool I've seen, coderpad.io, dumps a stack trace). In some algorithmic questions, non-sample testcases include data that is vastly more voluminous than the sample data (which is intended to catch non-optimal implementations of the algorithm), but this isn't obvious at all. It would be nice if the non-sample test cases had titles (e.g. "extremely large input" or "edge case") so you could theorize about why yours failed.

People who have experience using HackerRank have a definite edge over candidates who have never used it before. If you are planning on taking a HackerRank test for a position, I would recommend trying some open questions on their site first. I also recommend having a local text editor, compiler, and debugger ready in case you hit a segfault that isn't immediately obvious. If your solution fails with "Terminated due to timeout", or your code works on all the sample cases but fails/crashes on the hidden cases, then your algorithm is likely not efficient enough (in the timeout case, look for ways to speed it up; in the 'mystery crash' case, look for ways to reduce memory usage). Lastly, if you have extra time after completing a HackerRank test, I recommend making sure your code is as clean as possible and is well-documented (but not over-documented), in case they decide to manually review it.

Ask HN: Delphi (programming language) quo vadis?
6 points by t312227  1 day ago   6 comments top 5
jenkstom 1 day ago 0 replies      
Free Pascal and The Lazarus Project are great fun to play with if you just want to re-experience the fun of Delphi and Turbo Pascal. In fact, a lot of Turbo Pascal has been completely re-created. This was the first programming language I learned that really allowed me to use the power of a computer, and I have a lot of fond memories.
vram22 1 day ago 0 replies      
My 2c:

I recently downloaded a trial of Embarcadero's RAD Studio 10 Seattle (I know :). Using the Delphi in it. Only tried it a little so far, but what I tried is quite good. Still quite fast compiling/linking, it seems (though only tried on small projects so far). Also all the other RAD stuff is still good like in earlier versions (thankfully I seem to have avoided a few interim versions which I heard were buggy).

Also as mtmail said in this thread, this older post:


has lots of discussion on it. I had commented there too.

DyslexicAtheist 1 day ago 1 reply      
poor Delphi. It's being ridiculed[0] since the start of the millennium (possibly longer)


rgacote 1 day ago 0 replies      
Delphi still being developed by Embarcadero. Lots (lots!) of legacy code still out there. Still a great tool for building Windows apps.
mtmail 1 day ago 0 replies      
related previous discussion titled "Delphi why won't it die? (2013)" https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7613543
Ask HN: Out of beta with paying customers. What's next?
15 points by vital101  1 day ago   7 comments top 3
kjksf 1 day ago 1 reply      
You have paying customers - that's more than most people achieve, so congrats.

You mentioned possibility of angel investing so I'll address just that part.

Do you expect that, in your best case scenario, this business will ever reach $100M of yearly revenue?

If not, then venture capitalists (including angels) will not be interested in investing.

Business model of VC is based on 1 out of 10 companies getting really big. If a company has no chance of ever getting really big, VCs have no reason to invest in it.

You seem to have what might, at some point, be a small business.

The chances you can grow it into a big business is small (on one hand, WordPress market is huge, on the other hand you're only solving a small pain for people creating themes and plugin, which is relatively small number of people).

So it seems like bootstrapping is the way to go.

Given that you have a working product that people are willing to pay for, you probably have a marketing challenge at this point.

A small tip: you have a decent website but your copy could use some tweaking to focus on the product and what it does for users. Remove the parts about you ("We've worked hard to make Kernl awesome and affordable.", "We take development seriously at Kernl." - nobody cares), superfluous parts ("so give it a whirl.").

charlesdm 1 day ago 1 reply      
Am I understanding the business model right?

Say I'm company X, and I develop a custom Wordpress theme, then I can remotely update my theme using Kernl?

If that's a yes - I think I dare say you're undercharging by a factor of 40.

If I pay $50 for a wordpress theme (as a user), I'm probably getting a grand or two worth of value. That's why some themes are able to sell 200k units at $50. In your pricing structure, that'd be 1 theme? Currently, it seems that a company that made $10m in gross revenue from their theme is able to pay just $5 a month.

Wouldn't it make sense to split pricing up between a theme or a plugin? Plugins are usually niche, lower priced and lower value. Themes are generally higher priced, and higher value. How about charging $200 or $500 per month for a theme, and $50-100 for a plugin? Clean and simple.

If I'm a WP company, there's no way I can roll that out for < $200 a month in a reliable way.

Forget VC - find 50 customers at $200 and take it from there :)

gburt 1 day ago 0 replies      
I'm glad you've got paying customers and absolutely do not wish to interfere with that. This might be a bit of a faux pas, but, it is good for the community: I developed some code to build a service like this back in 2012. It is released GPLv2 if anyone is interested: https://github.com/gburtini/Private-Plugin-Updater
Ask HN: Why do dev communities still use mailing lists?
6 points by kevinSuttle  1 day ago   10 comments top 5
cauterized 13 hours ago 0 replies      
Because it's a push rather than a pull medium (you don't have to remember to check it) but asynchronous (you don't have to check it immediately). And one that everyone already has access to (you don't have to create Yet Another Account on Yet Another Service to keep up with questions, answers, and new development).
kevinSuttle 5 hours ago 0 replies      
Why not GitHub issues? No this is not a satirical question.
aprdm 10 hours ago 0 replies      
Because they work and have worked for ever.. same with IRC.

Also, not needing to create yet another account is a big plus

tumdum_ 1 day ago 0 replies      
Because mailing lists are simple and modern webapps are easy.
stephenr 1 day ago 1 reply      
Why not?
Ask HN: Tips for getting domain from domain sitter?
4 points by siquick  1 day ago   7 comments top 5
allendoerfer 23 hours ago 1 reply      
As someone, who bought a (for me) quite expensive domain lately:

Get some sense of the actual value of the domain and make an offer. Prepare for all kinds of bullshit: There are no other bidders, there are no limits of any kind, the seller "has to do" nothing, everything he says is a lie. Offer instant cash. If you made an offer roughly around the actual value, this argument wins, use it against everything the other side comes up with.

What other comments are saying is not true. They won't sell you the domain for cheap, because of a bad market or to save fees. Domainers are shady sales guys, who want to extort as much money from you as they can. You are vulnerable to them, because they already know, that you want the domain, because you already have chosen that name. You have to offer them a deal that is roughly around the actual value (e.g. what others would pay) and be ready to walk away at any time. Instant money is the argument that gets you a discount.

Tomte 23 hours ago 0 replies      
Using lots of "the same domain" with different TLDs is also a form of "domain sitting".
rajacombinator 19 hours ago 0 replies      
1) make a reasonable offer 2) move on an find a different domain name because a) it probably doesn't matter and b) if it does, they're not going to part with it easily.
AznHisoka 1 day ago 0 replies      
Contact him and give him a firm good first offer. Stand by that offer and don't waver away from it.
PaulHoule 1 day ago 0 replies      
You can always try to buy it.

Prices for domain names have been depressed for the last few years and the owner might be happy to part with it for something on the order of 10x or 20x a year's registration which is not insane.

Ask HN: How and where do you find remote consulting jobs?
18 points by gatogo  2 days ago   4 comments top 4
wsc981 2 days ago 0 replies      
I recently became active on the following sites:

- https://weworkremotely.com

- https://www.upwork.com

- https://remoteok.io

- https://angel.co

- https://www.ziptask.com

- http://www.toptal.com

- https://gun.io

I've gained jobs through Upwork and another of these sites. Of course Upwork pays badly when you have no credits yet with the community. But I believe pay can be decent after completing several taks successfully.

Toptal is the hardest to get into, but I wouldn't be surprised if they have the best pay.

wprapido 1 day ago 0 replies      
https://github.com/lukasz-madon/awesome-remote-job has a ton of useful links. job boards and companies that hire remotely included
coderKen 1 day ago 0 replies      
IMHO HN is more effective, watch out for the Whoishiring thread and be sure to apply like hell. I'm currently on a remote contract Gig which I got via HN a few months ago. Have also gotten one time jobs via HN's who is freelancing.
kull 1 day ago 0 replies      
Ask HN: What choice you made in your career you regret the most?
9 points by abdelhadikhiati  2 days ago   7 comments top 6
mswen 1 hour ago 0 replies      
Not buying that Perl book at the college bookstore in 1994 and not really digging in deep when I first encountered RDBMs at about the same time. At the time I was learning grad level social science with a quantitative focus - lots of statistics with SPSS. Around 2012 I started adding in HTML, PHP, Javascript, SQL, R and now working on Python. I was right on the verge of putting together the multi-disciplinary skill set that serves me well today as early as the mid 1990s.
scmoore 1 day ago 0 replies      
Quitting jobs and moving without having the next job lined up. I always figured I was a smart guy, I could land on my feet wherever I ended up. And that was true, but it took some time and effort to get a job that lined up with my career goals, and while that was happening I was pretty stressed out. I also feel like I've lost about a year of growth (and salary!), which is hard to let go of.

I realize that this isn't really a big revelation, but it didn't really hit home for me until I got into a real "career" -- it wasn't such a big deal when I worked retail jobs.

fenier 8 hours ago 1 reply      
Not taking Statistics in high school. Ended up taking it in College, but found I enjoy it quite a bit and would have been able to enjoy it nearly a decade earlier.
ratfacemcgee 2 days ago 0 replies      
discovering hackernews?

but seriously, probably thinking i had to "pay my dues" before I begun my career. Thinking I wasn't good enough to get a job, and I had to spend time at Uni first. It wasn't until I was mid way through my masters before I realised that a job wasn't going to magically appear the day I graduated. I dropped out and never looked back.

Also, thinking I had to shoehorn myself into the industry by working my way up to it from tech support. That was fruitless.

re_todd 22 hours ago 0 replies      
Taking such a long time to get my degrees. When I finally had the educational background I wanted, I found it's difficult to get those entry-level positions when you're over 35. And if you can't get those entry-level positions, it's extremely difficult to have a career in the field you want.
rajacombinator 19 hours ago 0 replies      
Not learning web coding earlier. Although it wasn't a conscious choice, just something I wasn't exposed to.
Ask HN: What questions would you ask your interviewers?
17 points by pmoriarty  2 days ago   17 comments top 7
sumbry 2 days ago 1 reply      
The questions I ask are designed to help me learn about the actual environment I'd potentially be walking in to. Understanding the technical parts are easy, grok'ing the environment is a bit tougher. You're making a decision for potentially years after only a few hours of input.

1. If there is one thing you could get the company to stop doing today, what is it?

2. On that note you're in tech, there are numerous opportunities everywhere, what are the top three things that keep you here?

3. What's the job you want after this one? Why? How is the company helping you get there?

4. What do you and your manager discuss in your 1:1s? What do you and your reports discuss in your 1:1s?

5. Name a mistake you made in the past year. What did you learn from it? How did your team and/or manager respond?

6. Same question as above but name a success.

RickS 2 days ago 0 replies      
This depends highly on what you're optimizing for in a job (read: what burned you before that you don't want to get burned by again)

Some questions for CEO/upper management that I intend to ask next time:

Tell me about the coolest thing you made without help from anybody else.

(This question is basically: "do you know what its like to make, not manage?" There are totally different mindsets and ways of measuring time and whatnot. I want a manager who has felt those themselves.)

Tell me about a time you let your team down, and how you got through it.

(This is somewhat of a trick question: can they admit that they've let their team down at some point? Can they blame themselves or fall back to other factors? Lots of important stuff comes out here)

How often do you say no to a feature or initiative even though it seems like it might be a good idea?

(Can they say no and mean it? Cleanly? Huge.)

selmat 1 day ago 0 replies      
I have developed and tested several times this "test-case" with very positive results:

1. Create set of cards with pictures/outputs/descriptions/scheme/diagrams/code outputs/whatever is relevant to desired job/position. Some of them should be out of context of bigger picture. One card with only one item.

2. Suitable amount is around 10-12 cards.

3. During interview ask candidate to group relevant cards together.

4. Logic and number of groups is upon candidate.

5. Candidate has time limit 5-6 minutes and after this time you will discuss what, how and why.


Outcomes from test-case:

A. During "sorting" period you can see how candidate deal with unknown, real-life information and situation related to your job

B. You can see how well is organized

C. Can see time-management (time-pressure) ability

D. Will see whether is able to get bigger picture or is diving deep into details

E. Can see whether he asks more questions

F. Can see logic how he think about possible solutions


From my experience from IT hiring...

> Guy with 7 years of experience, deep technical level, ability to solve issue and deal with customer - sorted 15 cards within 3 minutes with persuasive logic and great reasoning. After short discussion we have seen he is right for position.

> Another guy ...the same test-case cards, was totally lost and after 5 minutes he did confess he has no idea based on what key he should create groups.

viraptor 2 days ago 0 replies      
Salary and bonus system. Rules on code ownership and individual OS contributions. (do they think they own that) Option of working from home when you need to do something that would otherwise require 1 day off. Work assignment: do you get tasks from small team pm, or 30 different people with different priorities. Work system: everyone does their thing, or are you working in a group of N. What kind of tasks you get assigned: month long projects, or small bits.
sharemywin 2 days ago 0 replies      
1. What is the main skill you see necessary for someone to have to be successful in the position?

2. What is the most important thing you feel the person in this position will need to accomplish in the next 60-90 days?

3. What do feel would be the biggest roadblock that will prevent someone from being successful in this position?

Make sure you have experiences you can tie their answers to.

Fando 2 days ago 5 replies      
I would ask: If a watermelon costs $5 dollars plus half the cost of a watermelon, how much does a watermelon cost?
joesmo 2 days ago 1 reply      
I should have asked and now do, how the code quality is (in their opinion) and if I can take a look at a representative sample or samples. This is probably the most important. Also, if they practice TDD so I can avoid the job.
Ask HN: What service/SW that no longer exists have you been unable to replace?
4 points by Futurebot  1 day ago   2 comments top 2
ksherlock 1 hour ago 0 replies      
Google search.
mod 20 hours ago 0 replies      
Online poker in the US
Ask HN: When did you decide enough is enough for evaluating a cofounder?
3 points by a_lifters_life  1 day ago   2 comments top 2
rgovind 4 hours ago 0 replies      
When fear turns to boredom aka...when you feel that you stalling hurts you more than moving forward, even if the match is not perfect.
leesalminen 1 day ago 0 replies      
Give (almost) everyone a second chance. After that, if your intuition is telling you something, go with that.
Ask HN: Open Source project ideas?
6 points by codegeek  1 day ago   6 comments top 5
twunde 1 day ago 0 replies      
Tooling for dealing with and understanding legacy code. Some tools are around but they're scattered. I'd like to be able to easily see what code is not in use, be able to generate database diagrams, see what files are changed most frequently, automatically link changes to your change bug tracking system etc. I deal with legacy code and most often the real work is in understanding why a prior change was made.
siscia 1 day ago 0 replies      
An open source version of AWS lambda, as soon as I get the time I will work on seriously it...
jotux 1 day ago 0 replies      
I wish there were more good, open source, product life-cycle management (PLM) tools.
selmat 20 hours ago 0 replies      
For example farmers are complaining about lack of open-source cattle managements software.
codegeek 1 day ago 1 reply      
I will go first. I would love to create the Next Gen Online Learning Platform. Robust API to build your own interfaces on top of it. 100% Free and Open source.
Ask HN: OO book for old Python hacker?
5 points by bsg75  2 days ago   2 comments top
Ask HN: What are your favorite mailing lists?
6 points by eatonphil  1 day ago   3 comments top 3
bonsai 13 hours ago 0 replies      
I follow microservices weekly(http://www.microservicesweekly.com).
drakmail 1 day ago 0 replies      
I like JavaScript Tips Daily newsletter (http://js2016.tips), Ruby Weekly (http://rubyweekly.com) and JavaScript Weekly (http://javascriptweekly.com)
rayalez 16 hours ago 0 replies      
       cached 17 February 2016 05:05:04 GMT